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By | June 20, 2012 11 Comments

Accused of vigilante justice

Barry Gilton and Lupe Mercado are scheduled to be arraigned in a San Francisco court today. They are accused of killing 22-year-old Calvin Sneed, a gang member who was pimping out their 17-year-old daughter. Sneed is dead, but Gilton and Mercado deny any involvement.

They did, however, ask law enforcement and other agencies to help them rescue their daughter. According to Gilton’s attorney, “Every place they turned to turned them away.”

Read:

S.F. couple kill daughter’s alleged pimp, cops say, on SFGate.com.

Parents accused of killing daughter’s pimp in San Francisco, on LATimes.com.

Meanwhile, in Shiner, Texas, a 23-year-old man allegedly killed a man he found molesting his 5-year-old daughter in a barn. His weapons were his fists. This man has not been arrested and charged with murder. According to news reports, local residents think he’s a hero.

Read Is Texas dad who killed alleged child molester a criminal? On MSNBC.MSN.com.

Despite the heinous actions of the men who are now dead, legal experts say that no one has the right to take the law into their own hands, and vigilante justice cannot be tolerated in a civil society.

Yes, but ”¦

Society’s legal institutions depend on people following the rules. Sociopaths do not follow the rules. Therefore, when it comes to dealing with sociopaths, the institutions are practically useless.

Many of us can tell stories of going to law enforcement or other authorities, and coming away disappointed, even outraged. Not only did the authorities fail to investigate, they conveyed the impression, or sometimes came right out and stated, that we were victimized because of our own stupidity, or we were just jealous and vindictive.

I learned early in my experience of going after my ex-husband, who took $227,000 from me, that I could not depend on lawyers, law enforcement, or the court. And while I had always been the most law-abiding of citizens, when it came to James Montgomery, there were certain matters that I took into my own hands. I got more results on my own than I did through the legal system.

The Texas father apparently acted in an unplanned fit of rage. If the California parents did, in fact, kill the pimp—which they deny—it would have been out of frustration, fear and anger at not only the gang member, but at a civil society that let them down.


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Ox Drover

Donna, these two cases to me show that “law enforcement” in this country is not adequate to deal with the type of people that we know as “psychopaths”—people without a conscience, who will prey on other humans without remorse.

I too understand the frustration of dealing with law enforcement, and had problems with them when Patrick first got into trouble as a teenager. I’m not sure it would have “helped” but it shows that the majority of the people involved in courts and law enforcement do not understand what a psychopath is.

I at one point refused to allow the court to release Patrick to me. When my husband and I went to pick him up, he looked at me with a sneer and said “what the Fu_k took you so long?” I looked atht epolice man with him and said “there’s been a mistake, this isn’t my son, my son wouldn’t talk to me like that” and my husband and I left.

Three days later, in court, the judge was again going to give him into my custody and I told the judge “I can’t control him< I will only take him if he has a leg monitor on him" well, a week later they did release him to me with a monitor, but when he cut it off and ran, the police in Florida didn't want to know anything about it until the court date 3 months later when he didn't show up….in the meantime, th epolice in Texas where he was wouldn't pick him up because there was no warrant from Florida out. The mother of the 13 year old he had continued to have sex with and eventually got preg (her mother had it aborted) was histerical and wanted him away from her daughter. The law laughed at us both.

He was eventually brought back to Florida and did 6 weeks in juvy before he returned to Texas and within 5 months was in BIG BOYS prison with a 5 year sentence. He did 2 and got out at age 20. Before he turned 21 he was back in prison for murder.

I'm dealing with the parole board now…trying to convince them that he will never change, that he will kill again. I've got another year to get my program together, but there is no guarentee that they will listen to it or even read it. My guess is that if not this time, that next time he comes up he will be released, and my world as I know it will go up in smoke and I will be on the run again. I can only hope that he will quickly commit another crime and go back to prison again. Even then I am not sure that he will be kept very long.

I don't want to have to kill my son in self defense, but I am prepared to do it.

While I feel great empathy for the parents who killed their daughter's pimp, I think "preventive" killing is not covered by the law. In fact, I am now reading a book called "The abuse excuse" about how people use one excuse or another to cover their acts of retaliation. I hope that at the very least they are not given prison time, but I expect they may be. I do feel their pain though, and understand I think why they chose the thing they chose to do. The problem is, I expect, though, is that killing the pimp won't "save" the daughter.

The father who caught the guy in the ACT and beat him to death…I think he is much more easily covered under the law, though actually he should have held the man and called the cops. However, I think every parent in the world can understand the man "snapping" and doing what he did. It will be interesting to see how these cases turn out.

G1S

Oxy, the Texas father who killed the man raping his little girl will not be charged.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/20/12313459-no-charges-for-texas-father-who-killed-daughters-alleged-molester?lite

The local newspaper said the story is over.

What I don’t care for in reports that a child was being “molested” is that could be anything. Call it what it was – rape. From all accounts that I have read on this story, including the one above, the perp had his pants and underpants down around his ankles and the little girl had evidence of “molestation” on her body. That wasn’t because he touched her with his hands.

I’m predicting that there will be a rise in vigilante killings because the courts are making it easier and easier for perps to get off easy, the police won’t respond for a number of reasons – including being understaffed because of the economic crisis in this country. This scares me. I fear we will end up in a police state or in anarchy.

There needs to be a collective expression of outrage and demands for change, but that will take a lot of coordination, mobilizing people, and a very strong leader. I just don’t see that happening. Is it possible? Sure, anything is possible.

I agree that killing the pimp most likely will not save the daughter.

People are becoming more and more desperate in this country because of the economy.

As long as Congress is bailing out big businesses and Wall Street with the tax payers’ money and then telling the little guys to go get jobs when there aren’t any, more and more people are going to do what they feel is necessary to survive, including prostitution and drugs.

I see one of two things most likely happening – either there will be a revolution, which I seriously doubt, or people will become more and more passive and look to escapism, like drugs, or “bread and circuses” where we look to be entertained more such as programs that show worse and worse behavior.

Miss Susie Sunshine I’m not. I know that. I think I’m a realist. I wish there was some way for things to be different.

How many times do we need to hear the same stories over and over again without any changes being made?

Ox Drover

G1S,

That’s part of my frustration, is that I know that at some point, PATRICK WILL GET OUT…they do not hold murders for “real life” except in very special cases, like Charlie Manson, etc. If Patrick gets sick the TDJC will let him out because they do not want the medical expenses to fall on them. If he reaches 25-30 years in for this crime, he will most likely get out. I am figuring he will get out next time, not this coming one. Then, there will be one of two things happens…he kills me, or I kill him.

I can’t do like the parents and go after him, I have to sit and wait for him to come to me, then I can kill him in self defense, but he gets the first shot, so I may lose.

Or, I can run and hide for the rest of my life or until he goes back to prison for some other crime. His history has been that is what he will do so maybe I won’t have to hide too long.

The parole board does not understand ASPD/PPD or whatever else you want to call it, a psychopath, in other words. They are all about emptying out their prisons.

They don’t do a good job in picking who they release though as only 40% of them finish off their paroles without committing another crime for which they are arrested and convicted. So 60% of the time they are WRONG. You’d think they would figure out better ways to pick who they let out wouldn’t you.
Frustrating.

G1S

It’s all about money. I swear. It’s all about money.

Nobody wants to pay taxes. The rich can’t be rich enough.

I used to travel to the Orient for one of my jobs. They paid the workers $1 per day. We want cheap goods. We aren’t getting cheap goods. The rich have not passed along the savings that they are making by using $1 a day labor instead of US labor. They are pocketing the difference. We are paying the same as if these goods had been produced in the US. THAT’S where all their wealth is coming from. They are unscrupulous to the hilt.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/business/apples-tax-strategy-aims-at-low-tax-states-and-nations.html?pagewanted=all

There are US manufacturers trying to compete, but they’re lacking the surplus cash to fight their causes. They are paying the wages.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303990604577367881972648906.html

When I was in the Philippines, they had security guards everywhere. You’d have to walk past men with machine guns over their shoulders to enter a nice restaurant to eat. The rich lived in gated communities that were armed.

I stayed at a very nice hotel. Six or eight people were gunned down in the park next to it a few weeks before I arrived.

This kind of lifestyle already exists. I think the US is heading for it.

Prisons don’t work because how do you change the mind of a P for the better? You can’t. We cluster them inside buildings where they learn from each other and get even worse.

It breaks my heart, Oxy, that is what your future holds for you. I don’t think you’re overreacting; you’re being realistic.

Time will tell. Many things can happen between now and then, but the way things are tracking and without any significant changes, your predictions sound very reasonable.

I asked my son last night, because we saw something in a magazine about the legacy a mother left her daughter, what kind of legacy he would say right now that I have left him. He answered without even needing to think about it, “Expect the worst, hope for the best.”

Part of me was happy, because I think I’ve given him some sense that he needs to protect himself, but boy, how I wish I could have taught him something far more positive.

Ox Drover

Grace, it is difficult sometimes when we look around us and see all the “evils of the world”—The book “We Who are About to Die Salute You” is an economic book not just about the “games” in Rome, but the economy behind “bread and circuses” and foreign labor that was cheap for the Romans, just like today. The same economy. It really wasn’t the hoards that brought down Rome, but their economy and the expectation of their citizens that they would have “bread and circuses”

I think that our “circuses” today are the violent media, the Wrestling, kick fighting, violent media games and movies, just getting more and more violent as the Roman games did. First they were legitimate “games” then they were blood baths and feeding Christians to the lions. Bigger and Better, more violence and more blood.

Exposure to violence makes one jaded…and little kids playing violent video games and watching violent movies while sitting along side daddy and mommy who are spaced out on drugs or having no idea what the media they are watching is doing to junior’s mind…it is sad.

But we can’t change that except by not participating in it and with our vote…both at the ballot boxes and voting with our MONEY. Don’t buy that kind of media, and keep your kids away from it if you can. Unfortunately that is also difficult.

There are 7 BILLION people on this earth. That’s a lot of people and there isn’t any way that you or I even together can change the cultures or desires of those 7 BILLION people. We can however, do the best we can not to participate in the violence.

I don’t buy anything made in China if I possibly can get around it because I don’t like China’s lack of human rights. My little bit of money isn’t going to bankrupt China, or keep even one container on one container ship from being filled…but it is my part. If everyone in the US would stop buying Chinese products, even if American products were more expensive, it might change things for China’s workers and for American workers. But I doubt that’s going to happen but I still don’t buy Chinese products. It makes ME feel better if nothing else. Maybe I’m buying something from Indonesia and those workers are just as poorly treated, but at least the business isn’t going to China.

Ox Drover

Man ‘who beat up priest for raping him when he was seven’ goes on trial – as prosecution ADMITS clergyman molested him as a boy

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 16:05 EST, 20 June 2012 | UPDATED: 19:10 EST, 20 June 2012

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A man accused of beating up a priest he said sexually abused him as a boy goes on trial today – as prosecutors astonishingly claimed evidence shows he WAS molested by the man he attacked.

Lawyers representing Jesuit reverend Jerold Lindner said in opening statements that, although the priest abused Will Lynch as a child, it did not give him the right to take the law into his own hands.

Lynch, 44, is accused of beating the aging man in 2010 in front of witnesses at a retirement home for priests. Lindner was left bruised and in need of stitches.

He said he attacked the man for raping him when he was seven and forcing him to perform a sex act on his own brother, then four, while they were on a camping trip in Northern California.

G1S

They treat them just as badly in Indonesia, and I’ve got news for you. Many, many of the manufacturers in Indonesia and the Far East are Chinese. They don’t stay put in China. The Chinese are regarded as something like overlords (for lack of a better term.) It’s very ethnic. The Chinese are regarded as superior.

I know two brothers, one of whom was responsible for breaking open a Catholic clergy sex scandal regarding boys back in the 1980s. The older brother, who was an usher at my wedding, was forced by the priest to recruit boys for him and other priests with the threat that if they didn’t, they would continue to sexually abuse his younger brother.

They did some stuff to the younger brother, but the older one, my friend, got the bulk of the abuse. He did what they told him to do because it stopped his brother from being abused.

Long story short, neither brother has ever gotten over it (the older one is in his 60s and the other is in his late 50s.) The older brother spun out of control and went into a weird gay lifestyle. The younger brother became successful, amassed enough money, and went the legal route.

He placed an ad in a state newspaper asking if anyone had suffered abuse at the hands of this particular priest. He was tired of how his big brother was suffering and he was pretty angry over what happened to both of them.

They weren’t expecting many responses, but were hopeful. They were overwhelmed. That’s when it came out that there were multiple priests involved and the Catholic Church knew what was going on.

Years later, the younger one located one of the defrocked priests in Miami. He told me that he made posters and put them up everywhere he could in the neighborhood where this guy lived, along with his photo, saying that he was a convicted pedeophile. Even that has done nothing to stop this guy from being really, really angry. You could hear it in his voice when he told me this.

The older guy, who has since had two strokes, a heart attack, and is a permanent resident in a long-term facility, has never expressed or shown a lot of anger. He gets ticked off, might rant a bit, but never came across as violent. The other brother I think could literally kill somebody if the circumstances were right.

I think you’re right about being exposed to the violence as well as sex. We just become numb after a while.

People need a way to earn a living. If you take that away from them so a tiny handful can continue to amass a wealth that they can never possibly use, you turn the poor into dependents. You entertain them so they don’t revolt. You can’t then complain when you’re the ones not providing them jobs and providing them with entertainment so they won’t revolt.

I feel so discouraged. I wonder about the world that my son will be living in 30 to 40 years from now.

kim frederick

Ox and GS1, How about reality TV? If that isn’t evidence of a moral decline, I don’t know what is.

kim frederick

Decadance. Great word.

Spath loved that word. He repeated it over and over after I used it.
wtf?

darwinsmom

Kim,

Actually something has happened here in Belgium regarding reality shows towards the positive… because of a series of articles on reality tv from the same magazine that had an interview with Hare and who published my reader’s letter.

They used an angle that was ‘novel’. Part of it was of course trying to point out how not real these reality shows were, but the major part was about showing that the ‘silencing’ contracts by those who played in those shows are totally illegal contracts.

People assume that since they enter these reality shows voluntarily and sign the contract that they cannot do much against the outcome, against the protrayal, etc…

But the magazine did get their hands on some contracts and put them before lawyers and legal professors… and those contracts are ’employment’ contracts… so, yes, the candidates ‘work’ for free, but it could be proven before court that they’re still ’employed to act a role’. Since they are under an employment contract, the employer must by law ‘respect privacy’… an employer cannot legally ask an employee in any way to surrender their privacy… MORE, they cannot ask the employee to sign a contract that states that damages (emotional and physical… think Survivor here) that happen ‘on the job’ are not the employer’s responsibility. Again by law an employer is obligated to provide a ‘safe working environment’ and cover the costs of ‘work related accidents’…

So, what this magazine did was make contestants aware that they are under a work contract with a few crucial illegal parts in it (hte most important ones) and htat in fact the networks are obligated to do certain stuff that fully contradicts the goal of a reality show: preserve privacy, not smear someone’s name in how they portray a participant, provide a safe work environment, provide a work accident related insurance or taking the costs…

Since these series of articles a lot of reality shows have hardly made it on tv anymore or have been cancelled after 1 or 2 airing. View numbers were declining AND participants now have a case in court against the network. And I for one am pleased about it.

And basically they are right: that you work as a volunteer and don’t get a paycheck doesn’t mean you’re not working and that those who hire you can throw you before the lions. I don’t get paid for aventure tourleading, but they pay my plane ticket, pay my traveling costs (lodging, food, excursions) and pay my travel and accident insurance. And basically reality shows hire non-actors to do an actor’s job, but in work circumstances and work hours (24/7) no actor would ever do for free, and the actor cannot say afterwards, “Well I played a part… that’s not really me.”

Not sure whether labour law is similar to Belgium’s, but it’s an interesting angle to investigate… The networks and media might like to portray this deceptive argument of they volunteer for it, they sign the contract to give away their privacy, they go into it knowingly, etc… doesn’t make it necessarily legal. And when I think of it from the pov that the magazine did, and then regard some movie about a reality show where contestants must kill each other, then at least in Belgium, that would be a total fantasy. I don’t think contracting people to kill each other is legal employment, not even in the US, and the FBI would have a field day on that.

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