By | February 1, 2011 38 Comments

Another online dating scam

Kate Roberts of the U.K. fell in love with a U.S. soldier she met on a dating site, and sent him £80,000. Unfortunately, the profile was a fake, posted by Nigerian scammers.

Read The lonely heart scam: Mother sent £80,000 to a man she thought was a charming U.S. soldier ”¦ but she’d been conned by Nigerian fraudsters on

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

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Ox Drover

We read these “outlandish” things in stories like this and “we” think “How could anyone be so stoooooopid to send that much money to someone she had never even met?” Yet, “we” are just as gullible as Kate Roberts….we fell for the con, we fell for the Line, we fell for the sweet talk and BELIEVED what we want to believe.

Maybe it wasn’t money that “our” psychopath con took, maybe it was sex or ego stroking, but whatever it was, we gave in and put out whatever it was that the psychopathic con was trying to scam out of us.

In each case I was involved with someone who was a psychopath or an abuser—whether it was my P son or my Cheating x BF—I believed the lies, I believed what “face” they presented to me because believing that lie was what made me feel good about myself and about them. Believing the lie made me feel loved and cared about. NOT believing the lie would have been scary and painful.

I did what I had to do to maintain my illusion of being loved, just like Kate Roberts did–and I sent money to my P son, and spent time with my increasingly nasty tempered and demanding BF, I over looked increasing forays over my boundaries by my “friends” and lived in constant fear that I would be abandoned by these “friends” and “family” or that they would be “hurt” and it would be MY FAULT when I COULD have “helped” them. I could have DONE MORE to assist them.

Kate lost more than the 80 thousand pounds, she lost the illusion she was maintaining with that money, and she lost the “love” that she thought she had which is much more valuable than the money she lost, and she lost her ability to feel SAFE in her own soul, her own mind, her own thoughts, and to tell real from fake.

I hope that she is getting some help, some support and gaining some knowledge about WHAT kind of truck or train ran over her, raped her soul and took her money. She deserves much better. We all do. She’s no more “stoopid” than we all were, she’s just human and caring and she got tangled up with someone without a conscience, without a soul, without a heart, and without the ability to have any empathy for their victims, she didn’t expect that someone could be THAT EVIL.


So sad.
your comments are right on. we take to this illusion out of fear of being alone.

lesson learned


You really hit on something for me personally in why I stayed with this man so long. That is so true….

Also helps me understand my own “shut down” and the reasons why.


super chic

Oxy, you drove the nail in with one swing!!

super chic

I got home late,
I guess I’m here by myself :/
where is soimnotcrazee?


Hi Shabbychic!

I have been wondering about notcrazee as well. I am usually only getting on here two or three times a week myself lately, but I haven’t seen anything from her in over a week, I’m sure. I hope she’s okay.

NOT CRAZEE if you are reading this, post and let us know you are alright? xxx


Hellooooooooooooo NOTCRAZEE!!!!??? Where are you?


Day 2 of being home bound, buried in snow. I was thinking how horrible it would of been if the spathhole had been here with me. He was always restless and easily bored. When we were together I started to dread weekends because he always caused a riff so he could drive off , go crusin for strange sex I am sure. A healthy relationship would be fun to be snowed in with a partner, there was nothing healthy about that relationship. I can say this now and it doesnt hurt. It’s just fact. He conned me because he had no other place to go, he couldnt stand to be alone or alone with me, oh what a whirlwind of confusion and chaos. I was always bending over backwards to keep him intertained and interested. I wonder who he is snowed in with now? No I dont, I dont care, I am just relieved he aint here ruining my day, watching the birds and enjoying the day, cleaning house, cooking, playing with my weiners, no stress, no drama and most of all no tension….so how much is 80,000 in dollar amount? There are scam artist everywhere .

Ox Drover

Dear Henry,

I actually saw the SUN poke out just now, believe it or not! The Worst of the ice is 20 miles west of the farm, so we’re snowed in on ONE SIDE only. Ft. Smith and Fayetteville got pounded and with their roads being VERTICAL the least bit of ice or snow puts you at home or in the ditch, your choice.

I saw on the news though where OK city was a ghost town because of the snow and I-40 had 4 ft drifts closing it down west of Ft. Smith.

I can’t believe the ID-JUTS that think they have to get out and go somewhere when the weather is like this. The only thing that can half way safely move are the snow plows and even then they just rake the snow off the top of the ice and it is slicker’n snot on a door knob then.

Yea, being home is great! As long as there’s not a drama queen involved.


Oh WOW I could use some lovely snow right now! 36 deg C and 100% humidity, and its only 10 am!
Im outta here! Melting all over the keyboard!Why the F–k doesnt it rain?
Love, GemXX

Ox Drover

Gem, I got out my son’s conversion chart for humidity and heat index, and at 100 degrees F, (I think you said it was 104F yesterday) and 90% humidity the heat INDEX IS 170 DEGREES F.

That is like being out in the middle of the outback in the middle of summer without any shade!

I hope you have air conditioning in at least part of your house! Gosh that is terrible!


Oh, boy! At least four comments on this one…

1. Though it’s largely a matter of degree, I do think the case of Kate Roberts is different from anyone’s story here–that I’m aware of, anyway. No doubt you’re right, Oxy, that Kate’s motives were much the same as many other people’s who find themselves being scammed. Yet her behavior was far more reckless than most people’s, due to the combination of factors. First, she let herself be taken in by a stranger she’d never even met. Second, she gave him large amounts of money that she didn’t have and couldn’t possibly afford. A number of people will do one OR the other–but not usually both together, as far as I’m aware.

Plenty of people fall for a stranger, particularly these days when so many people are “meeting” over the Internet and they’ve no idea who these people really are. Quite a few people start long-distance relationships with someone they imagine they “know.” Then perhaps they unwisely arrange to move in together when they’ve spent very little time dating and getting to know one another properly, and it turns out to be a disaster. Sometimes that “dream date” turns out to be abusive or a con artist. But at least the luckless person who was taken in didn’t START by sending huge sums of money to a stranger! If they did send any money, it would usually be a sum they could afford–maybe a few hundred dollars for an air fare so that their “friend” could visit, for instance. In contrast, Kate Roberts gave away enormous amounts of money she didn’t have–$130,000 in U.S. currency–and stood no chance of recouping any time soon. Effectively she gave away her HOME!–and her children’s home as well.

On the other hand, a number of people do end up getting bilked out of large sums of money like this. Donna was one; she’s told her story here. But at least Donna was MARRIED to the guy when he was working his scam on her. It’s not as if he was a stranger thousands of miles away in some foreign country. If we’ve known someone in person for a while, spent time in what we thought was an “intimate” relationship with them, and are actually living together, we can easily think we “know” them–even if we don’t. We may think they’re committed to us–even if they aren’t. We may think our futures will be bound up together–even if they won’t. It’s understandable if advancing money to a spouse or partner seems like a way of taking care of our own financial prospects at the same time–even if it isn’t. But again, Kate Roberts gave all her money to a faraway stranger, someone she’d never spoken with face to face. That to me seems quite different, an extreme case.

2. At least there is some hope for reducing the incidence of scams like this, by EDUCATING people about their prevalence and ways of protecting themselves. It’s worth noting what the article told us: that Kate did–eventually–check with an Army base in Cambridgeshire, who’d never heard of this guy, and get his phone calls traced… to Nigeria. If she’d done that in the first place she would have been far wiser, and far better off.

At the same time, I really do have to wonder just how deliberately blind Kate Roberts was being. It’s not as if there’s been no publicity about this kind of scam. In any case, strangers asking for large sums of money should automatically set alarm bells ringing in anyone’s head, as more than one commentator observed. She seems to have overlooked a lot of clues as well.

What struck me particularly was that Kate was allegedly borrowing money, not just from credit cards and other commercial sources, but also “from family and friends” to finance this delusion of hers. Didn’t any of her family or friends ASK what she wanted the money for? Didn’t she tell any of them? If any of them had any idea what she was doing with the money I would have expected them to give her a stern warning. I wouldn’t expect them to lend her money at all for such a purpose. I would have expected them to let other friends and family members know she was probably being ripped off. If Kate herself was impossibly naive, I can’t believe all her friends and family were the same way. So I wonder: did she lie to them and cover up what she was doing with the money to protect her illusory “love affair”? I suspect she was in the realm of self-delusion well beyond what’s usually seen here. When that’s the case, it’s hard for anyone else to do anything about it. Even “education” won’t help much.

3. Regardless of how naive anyone is about the ways of others, how easily taken in–or even how desperate they are for “love”–it seems to me that if anything is fundamentally “wrong,” it’s not necessarily in their attitude toward others (as important as that is), but in their attitude toward themselves. What I see is a basic lack of SELF-caring and SELF-protective mechanisms.

Trying to put myself in Kate’s place, what if I did get chatting to some “dream date” over the phone and start handing out money? It wouldn’t be long before I was asking myself “Wait a minute, how much is this person COSTING me?” Very soon I’d be wondering “Can I even AFFORD this?” (And if the phony “Sergeant Ray Smith” didn’t have any money at the time, when was he ever going to be able to pay Kate back?) Long before I got where Kate ended up, I’d be thinking “Hold on, this is MY money! It’s everything I’ve got! It’s my home, and everything! Why in heaven’s name should I hand it over to someone else with no guarantee of a return? What’s going to happen to ME if anything goes wrong?”

In Kate’s case too, it wasn’t just a matter of looking after herself. It was also her three kids she’s responsible for looking after and providing for. Now the kids have lost their home too, and things they would have had that their mother can not now afford. Effectively she sent a chunk of their possessions as well to some bunco artist in Nigeria. While the lure of an attractive potential partner is understandable, what I see is a striking absence of the healthy instinct to “look after ME and MINE”–and a failure to exert control over the outcome of this bogus “courtship.” A healthier focus on the SELF could well have averted this disaster.

4. As an afterthought, why do so many of these scams originate in Nigeria? Why Nigeria in particular? Why not Namibia, or Nicaragua, or Nauru or Nepal?

All right, so Nigeria has a heck of lot more people than any of those. (Nauru especially.) But why not Ethiopia, say, or the (so-called) “Democratic” Republic of the Congo? And if size is the criterion, why not Brazil, or Pakistan? Or better still, India, with over a billion people.

What’s so special about Nigeria that seems to breed so many of these scams? It’s a fairly poor country, so lots of people there must be on the lookout for a quick buck to help them survive. (Though as we know, fraudsters don’t have to be poor, only greedy.) At the same time, Nigeria is not so poor that everyone is lacking an education or access to communication facilities such as the Internet. And thanks to its colonial heritage, people there speak English, an advantage when targeting English-speaking countries in some moneymaking scheme.

I can only wonder if there’s some additional factor. One possibility that comes to mind is lack of effective law enforcement, especially when the victims of a crime are not Nigerian themselves. There’s a lot of crime there anyway, and if the Nigerian police couldn’t care less when con artists in their country victimize people overseas, the criminals can go on operating there with impunity. It’s entirely up to us to avoid being targeted.


redwald- i really appreciate your thinking through the prevelance of cyber crime coming out of Nigeria in your ‘afterthought’.

Cyber space is the most lawless place there is. Most countries don’t have any sort of effective cybercrime laws – that sort of thinking (let alone, legislation) is in its infancy. I reported my spath to the national police – they wouldn’t even look at it. Ditto for the admins of the site I met her on; they could care less that she was carrying on there conning a whole group of people.

There is no protection, but experience.

Ox Drover


I think that Kate was maybe as you pointed out “less cautious” than many of us were, but at the same time, Dateline and 20:20 have done programs on this type of scam and some pretty “smart” people have been taken in as well. I think maybe the DEGREE of lack of caution that Kate showed might be the difference.

I for one would never have given a single DIME to my X BF no matter how much I loved him, or even if we had been married I would have had a VERY Tight pre-nup, but I have a “thing” about protecting my money. I don’t give it away easily and I also don’t ASK or take money from others either.

Part of that is just cultural and part of it is the way I was raised to think about money, paying my own way and expecting others to pay theirs.

I admit that Kate was not exercising any caution, she was infatuated and saw this “brass ring” of PRINCE CHARMING at the end of the tunnel and she didn’t question it as much as you or I might have, but at the same time, I think it iis simply a matter of degree.

I WANTED SO BADLY to believe that my son was sorry he murdered that girl…..Kate wanted so badly to believe that this handsome soldier was going to live her forever….she sent money, I sent money; she believed, I believed–and neither of us looked for evidence that our dream wasn’t true. I think too that when I saw evidence that it wasn’t, I discounted that evidence.

There’s a wonderful bookk “A mind of its own, How your brain distorts and deceives” by Cordelia Fine, PhD. Order that book Redwald, I think you will find that we (humans) believe what we WANT to believe in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. It accounts for a lot of “stoopid” things Kate did and “stoopid” things I did.


Oh, yes, Oxy, I agree. I do think Kate Roberts was determined to believe just what she wanted to believe… and to heck with reality. It’s the only explanation for what she did! It’s just that in my own mind, that was taking matters a very long way, in her own situation. Plenty of people “believe what they want to believe,” but I think they usually have more wiggle room for those beliefs than she did.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I hadn’t heard of that one before, and it looks interesting. Our minds certainly can play tricks on us at times! 😉

Ox Drover

Dear Redwald,

Yea, it is amazing just how much our minds and our thoughts can TRICK us into finding excuses for doing and thinking what we WANT to do or think. I think maybe Kate’s DEGREE of self delusion was more than most people would expect someone fall for, but WE have ALL fallen for some degree of delusion in staying with our psychopathic partners or family members.

Date line did one one night about a respectable middle aged married man who “fell in love with” a beautiful MILLIONAIRE FEMALE and divorced his wife of 30+ years, sold his house and sent the “millionaire” girl the money, RE-mailed packages to her in other countries of stuff bought and shipped to him (stolen merchandise of course) and eventually found out that his “BEAUTIFUL MILLIONAIRE GIRLFRIEND HE HAD NEVER MET THAT LOVED HIM” was actually a Nigerian male! To top it all off, he was exposed as a total “idijuit” on national television.

The old man who lives down the road from me, 82 years old and a good but lonely old man is sending money to Haiti and “is going to be RICH” as a result. He is living in poverty but NO one can convince him he is not going to get rich from sending every dime he can “beg, borrow or steal” to Haiti. Everyone is conspiring to “keep him from getting rich.”

My egg donor is going to do whatever she can to “protect” my P son from me keeping him in prison, no matter what. In spite of the evidence that he tried to have me murdered (in his own handwriting!) She read it, at one point she even said it was true, but she refuses to believe what she doesn’t want to believe. She is willing to believe ANYTHING as long as it is not against what she WANTS to believe. LOL

I WANTED to believe that my “mother” loved me too, and wanted to believe that she appreciated me…but I ignored the truth for decades because it was TOO PAINFUL to accept that it was not true. I actually think I was “on to” the fact that my egg donor didn’t give a squat about me by the time I was 5-6, but I didn’t want to believe it, so refused to, and made excuses for everything she did to prove she didn’t’ give squat about me. I played her games of “let’s pretend I never did anything really nasty and mean to you.”

Fortunately, it got to the point that it was NOT possible for me to remain in denial any longer, it was WAKE UP OR DIE.

Sometimes people do NOT wake up and they actually die because of it….people are killed/murdered every day of the year by those they love and wanted to trust because the victims refuse to see and accept the truth of the abuse. Others, live in pain, rejection, depression and denial for the totality of their lives because they are afraid to own up to the fact that the people they love don’t love them back, don’t treat them with respect.

If we set boundaries we must be prepared to have the RELATIONSHIP END when we enforce those boundaries because that is the ONLY thing we have to “bargain” with.

Treat me well or you will NOT be allowed to remain in my life. We must be prepared to enforce that no matter how much it hurts. It hurts MORE to allow someone to continue to abuse us than it does to to stand up and say STOP! But I don’t think we know that for a while at least.

Kate was too afraid to stand up at say $10,000 and say NO MORE! Or too afraid to check him out and find out she’d been fooled, so she sent more money after the first Money to try to keep from having to face the fact she had been fooled out of the first money. She stayed in denial to keep from admitting she had been hoodwinked. I’ve been there….maybe not to the tune of tens of thousands of DOLLARS but I’ve given BLOOD and TEARS and that is worth more I think than all the money in the world. You can replace money, you can’t replace your blood and tears. So I’m not sure if Kate is the bigger fool or I am, but I think Dr. Viktor Frankl’s idea that pain acts like a gas, it entirely fills the container even if it is just a little plain or a lot,, it totally fills the container, and I think her pain was total, and I think my pain was total, and yours and everyone else here had TOTAL pain. So who lost the ‘most” or the “least” I don’t think is important, just that it was TOTAL LOSS.


Oxy, I need to interrupt this thread to ask a question.
A while back I told you that a few people are inquiring about renting my house with a work/rent trade option. One man, who installs kitchen cabinets for a living, was willing to rent the decrepit house. I had offered him $300 rent plus $500 in work fixing up the house. He liked it because it has a large shop where he can store his lumber and cabinets.

Then I told him no because my attorney advised me against that kind of arrangement, for all the reasons which you and ErinB mentioned. But he came back with an offer to pay $1000 in rent, saying that he really wants it because the shop is perfect for his tools and workshop.

So, what do I do now? Of course I suspect everyone of being a spath, and he is a little pushy, but he hasn’t love bombed me – like the last woman did. 🙂

I’ve never rented a house out before, what kind of credit checks do I run? Do they cost money and how much? Do I ask him to pay for the credit checks? What kind of ID do I need? SS#?

Any other advice is appreciated.


I will rent him my house for 1000 bucks a month and move in with OXY

lesson learned


So if you move in with Oxy, what happens to the weiners? 🙂


Hi, DWM, I’m sure she’d let you!

It’s quite the shack and it’s a huge mess too! It’s why I’m suspicious. But the rents in the puget sound area are astronomical, so if the house was fixed up it would be worth that and more. People see this little cabin in the woods and just WANT it. The thing is, I KNOW that I have a big “SPATH SUPPLY” imprint on my forehead. So I worry that there are ulterior motives. Not really anything I can do about it except to not BECOME supply.

I know what the “SPATH SUPPLY” sign looks like because my BF has it big time. I swear, he even inspires people who aren’t spaths to become spaths just for fun! His little face looks so cute when he pouts!

I’m pretty sure I have it too. But I can’t live my life hiding in the woods and missing opportunities so I have to make solid, well informed decisions.

This thread seems like the only one that will load tonight. must be alot of people posting or reading tonight.

Ox Drover

The weiners come with him, or he can’t come! Besides, I will put him to work fixing up the yard! Ohhhh, I can just envision it now!!!!

Skylar, I think I would listen to my attorney about the “Fixing up” part of the rent.

IF HE WANTS TO RENT “AS IS” to use it for storage, you can have an attorney draw up a contract that outlines the “AS IS” part of it and that he is NOT TO INCUR ANY MECHANICS LIENS ON THE PROPERTY FOR ANY IMPROVEMENTS OR REPAIRS….that way if he “fixes” something he cant charge you for his labor or the repair parts.

YEars ago my grandparent’s old house which was at the time pretty well falling down because no one had lived in it was vaccant and houses out here were hard to find to rent of any kind. A woman with 5 kids wanted to rent the house and so we rented it to her AS IS and in the contract we set out that we would NOT do any repairs of ANY KIND and that if she did repairs she had to pay for them herself and hot let any repair person have a “mechanics lien.”

The “mechanics lien” in most states is the right of a person who works on your property or car or house etc. to be PAID first before you can even sell the house, so that you can’t get someone to work on your house or car and not pay them.

So if you want to rent to the man AS IS, without any repairs, and he will acknowledge that it is in the state it is in (take a good number of pictures or videos of him walking through it and showing any problems it has) then you would I think be okay. I would NOT under any circumstances though allow him a “work for rent” deal of ANY KIND EVER! NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA!!!!! (been there and done that and got screwed!) That way if he DOES make repairs you don’t owe him for them. You NEVER give him any written or witnessed permission to drive a single nail in the place, but if he does make repairs you just don’t object to them. Talk to your lawyer too BEFORE you do anything.

As for checking on his references, I would call who he works for, or if he works for himself then check out where he lives and his business address and see what they look like and get CASH up front for a deposit = to a month’s rent, and a month’s rent and an agreement that he will give you 30 days notice to move or he doesn’t get his deposit back. If he just needs the storage space for his stuff it might be all right. See how long he’s been at his bank too. If he’s a new customer you might want to check with former bank, and you’ll have to get approval (your lawyer should have a form) Good luck.

Ox Drover

Sky why don’t you get the place appraised and sell it?


thanks for the advice.
If I sold it, the money would be gone and I’d be broke. I’d rather milk the cow than eat it. Plus I wonder if my BF, would then tell me he can’t pay me for my work anymore. I trust no one.
The prices for housing, as you know, have plummeted. Plus, the house is a disaster, worth nothing except to the desperate. The location is dreamy. Looks like sherwood forest and on an island, near a state park. But not worth selling. The worst part is that my exP left Trojan horses all over my neighborhood. They will try to sabotage anything I do.
I know I sound paranoid, Oxy, but I’m not judging my BF or my neighbors so much on how I feel about them, but on all the RED FLAGS which I educated myself on, so that I COULD function in a world that preys on people like myself – people with no protective mechanisms.

So far, this renter, doesn’t seem to be a spath. He does seem like he lacks good credentials, but that could happen to anyone and if he had better credentials he wouldn’t need my run down cabin. He has a kitchen remodeling business which he runs off Craigslist and newspaper ads (redflag?) ads. Not licensed and insured. I did search him out the best I could, but I think he is running his business out of his sister’s home because his own house is too small. He lived in LosAngeles for many years and moved here recently. He is black and the area I’m from has only 1 black person on the entire island. I’m a bit worried about him being attacked by the spaths in the neighborhood. But, I did tell him about them. Not everything, but alot. He says he keeps to himself.

Ox Drover


He doesn’t sound too financially stable to me, and I’m (given what you have said) would not be likely to rent to him. (1) Self employed people who are just “start up” are HIGH RISK for credit mostly, that is ONE RED FLAG, and (2) another red flag is that he is not connected to the community by having lived there a while, people without ties to the community can just up and move off owing you money. Maybe that is what he did from LA because if he had a good business there why would he have left it? It takes TIME too build up a business like that and it is done by word of mouth, so unless you are running from word of mouth, you don’t tend to move off and restart somewhere else because you loose all your GOOD ADVERTISING REFERENCES of satisfied customers (3) I don’t see any real positives about him that would make me WANT to rent to him.

As far as keeping the “cow”—a “milk cow” that is DRY isn’t worth much, and (paying the taxes on her,) feeding her –which you said you had NOT been doing–I don’t think is a bargain at all. I would sell her before she dies and you lose her entirely. If you can’t afford the taxes and upkeep on the place, GET RID OF IT and put the money into something you CANNOT spend all at once. Like by a retirement annuity that will start small monthly pay outs at a certain age but you can never take it all out and blow it or borrow against it. Just invest the money like an adult. You CAN do that if you choose to do that.

Maybe you could become entirely self supporting and not be dependent on your BF to pay you or support you. If you don’t eventually pay the taxes, you will lose the place and not get anything at all out of it.


Sky I would ask him for 1000 deposit – plus sign a contract – if the place is a dump you dont have much too lose – plus u’d be getting 2 grand in your pocket – what makes u think this potential renter is a spath – seems to me some money in the pocket would be nice – even if’n he is a spath your just renting him a shack not marryin him – right? just keep the relationship very profressional and dont fall in love wit him…..keep your distance except the day rent is due….


Oxy and DWM,
The property is also 2 acres of lumber which was worth 80 grand at one time. These are HUGE trees. I know the economy sucks right now, but it won’t always.

I’m thinking of asking for first, last and deposit. Get a month to month contract signed. Then I’ll have cash. I’m not worried about that, I”m just hoping he doesn’t use it to commit crimes or something. That’s what matters to me. I’m wondering what kind of background checks are available? Any ideas?

Ox Drover

You can do one of those on line pay for it intellus (I think that’s the site) back ground checks, but it won’t give you a lot. You can get a signed release to do a credit report and pay for that as well, I would make sure though that you have a NO MECHANICS LIENS contract from him that saved me over $100K once on a deal and even my lawyer had not thought to put that into the contract, I was the one who thought of it.

TALK TO YOUR ATTORNEY, and tell the man that you are charging him an “application fee” for back ground and credit check that he will NOT get back, and he has to sign that and pay that up front before you even do a back ground or credit report check. THEN if he checks out okay, he must put up a deposit and sign a contract that he cannot fix up or repair the house himself or require you to, that he rents it AS IS for storage purposes. If he moves into it, you have not given him permission to do so, so I would also check with your attorney about your local rental laws. Some states MAKE a land lord keep a property “safe for human habitation” but others don’t.

ALSO get some LAND LORD’S LIABILITY INSURANCE IN CASE HE GETS HURT AND SUES YOU, he could break an ankle and end up owning the entire property with a law suit you couldn’t afford to defend.

THat should NOT be too expensive but you are NOT SAFE WITHOUT IT. There is more to renting out a place than just taking the money or checking the guy out. You have to look at the LIABILITY OF THINGS, and not just at the income. SO—TALK TO YOUR ATTORNEY. Don’t just look at the money and think how “easy” it is…believe me I had rental property for decades and I got rid of them…reconsider selling the timber or the place, if you don’t do SOMETHING you will lose it all for unpaid taxes. I’d start by getting a PROFESSIONAL APPRAISAL of the value of the place and the timber, THEN look at selling and INVESTING THE MONEY IN something safe and locked away from easy spending.



I would KNOW and cross reference this information.

You are taking a risk….and not knowing the person (naturally), and you ‘giving’ over your property, you are on a down side here.

Write down ALL scenarios you can think of and investigate through online stories… WA. and weigh your options.

Since your ‘vulnerable’ in the spath world….you’ve got to weigh cost vs benefit.
If you can withstand being taken financially/emotionally by a con…..enter…..
If you can’t financailly or emotionally withstand it……sell it.

Be cautious to investigate all scenarios which could cause you to be on the downside.
Eviction laws, squatting laws, machanics leans, tenent/landlord laws…..additionally……what would the property be worth if he clear cut the land?

Be honest with yourself (not an accusation towards you, just reality) about the TRUE condition of said property.
You refer to it as a wreck……well….as in no operable plumbing, electricity, any dangerous conditions…..or just dusty and old torn drapery. (you get it)…..
and according to the laws in your state…..even if dude agrees to rent in this condition…..are you LEGALLY allowed to rent in this condition……
are you setting yourself up for a legal battle due to slum landlord issues…..if he turns on you?

Take detailed photos, detailed lists of damages and read up on the laws before you swim in this pool.

I understand your being leary…..and you SHOULD be!
A….because it’s CL.
B. you offered one deal $300 cash, $500 monthly improvements =$800…..HOWD he come up with $1000 cash…..why not $800 cash monthly? (ODD)
C. Your unclear of the laws….GET CLEAR…cover your legal ass.

I wouldn’t worry about ‘what’ he chooses to do crime wise…..use it as a hide out yadyadyad…….just worry about your liability!

Also require renters insurance….

Do a background, HE PAYS. part of the Application fee…..
Make it high enough to cover….(you can call a rental agency and see if you can pay them to do check, or ask them who they use).

Tread lightly……your questioning it for a reason!


Erin and Oxy,
thanks so much, I’ll do all of those things.
The house is habitable, but just a mess, there is even a broken window (next to the door) that has duct tape on it.
He says he just wants the shop but he lives really far away, so I imagine he will want to use the house too.

The reason he offered $1000 is because I just stopped talking to him because I got too busy with work and don’t have time to go clean it up. Plus I was deciding what to tell him about the trade rent/work thing. I finally called him and told him I couldn’t do that and he suggested $1000.

So, inadvertantly, I played a hard bargain, which made him come back for more. He was being pushy and wanted it really soon, so I went into “hide under the covers” mode. When I last talked to him, I told him I don’t like pressure and that’s what he can expect if he gets pushy.

I know I’m not much of a business woman. I guess I have to learn somehow.

Ox Drover

Sky, you either learn by educating yourself before or educating yourself after making mistakes. I’ve done both! LOL I also took some courses in business law and READ a lot. I’m not so much up on the internet stuff as EB is, but I know that it can be done to investigate someone.

Funny I got on the FBI Department of Justice (DOJ) FOIA site and they were talking about information they would NOT GIVE OUT—one was geological information about WELLS (which is already public record and easily obtained) DUH and INFORMATION REGARDING REGULATIONS FOR FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS. DUH? LOL Odd combintation of things they hold secret. LOL


For anyone who’s interested, there are more stories in the same newspaper on the original topic. For one thing, men as well as women are being ripped off by the same Nigerian scam:

Postman loses £130,000 savings to Nigerian internet scam after being duped by a friend he met on MySpace

That story shows how the same guy also fell for a “secondary” scam that he hoped would help him get his money back. Instead, he lost ANOTHER $30,000 to a female con artist, this one claiming to be from the U.S.

And here’s an article with broader background on what they’re calling “rom scams” in general. Consequences can be lethal: the authors mention at least one man and one woman who committed suicide after being defrauded this way:

Rom scam: How African fraudsters now make £80million a year ripping off women (and a few men) so desperate for love they’ll believe anything

I’ll bet it’s more than “a few” men getting ripped off! That article also includes a brief interview with a Nigerian ex-scammer in person. He claims to be deeply regretful of doing it now–but I didn’t notice anything about PAYING BACK the £50,000 he so “deeply regretted” taking.


The old man who lives down the road from me, 82 years old and a good but lonely old man is sending money to Haiti and “is going to be RICH” as a result. He is living in poverty but NO one can convince him he is not going to get rich from sending every dime he can “beg, borrow or steal” to Haiti. Everyone is conspiring to “keep him from getting rich.”

Haiti, that place is a real hellhole. It was already a hellhole for years before the earthquake. The earthquake just made it that much worse. Given the present conditions there it doesn’t surprise me at all that people are operating scams from Haiti in a frantic attempt to get money from somewhere. Poor old guy, he’s unable to realize that if there’s one thing he’ll NEVER get out of a place like Haiti, it’s “rich.” Yet there’s paranoid thinking too behind his belief that “everyone is conspiring to KEEP him from getting rich.” Some people go gaga in their old age. It’s very sad.

I WANTED to believe that my “mother” loved me too, and wanted to believe that she appreciated me”but I ignored the truth for decades because it was TOO PAINFUL to accept that it was not true. I actually think I was “on to” the fact that my egg donor didn’t give a squat about me by the time I was 5-6, but I didn’t want to believe it, so refused to, and made excuses for everything she did to prove she didn’t’ give squat about me. I played her games of “let’s pretend I never did anything really nasty and mean to you.”

That’s completely understandable, Oxy. What can make it so hard for children especially when their parent is abusive or just doesn’t care is that the child has no way of knowing things should be different, because the child has no other experience of life to teach them otherwise. Home and their own family are all they’ve ever known. Parents are Godlike figures to a young child. So it’s far too easy for a child to imagine that “if a parent abuses me, it must be MY fault, and all the bad things they say about me must be true.” A child can end up carrying those damaging beliefs about the Self for the rest of their lives. Unless they find a way to change it.

Ox Drover


You are completely right in both of the above posts. Dateline has done several good shows on these scams and scammer.

Yea, my neighbor isn’t certifiable or “demented” per se, he is pretty much like my egg donor, just poor judgment and grasping at straws for companionship and “hope.” I haven’t seen the “crack ho” around lately, though, so maybe he got lucky and she found a more affluent victim.


Just saw a promo for tomorrow’s newscast featuring a segment on a local woman who got scammed on-line. Think I’ll set the DVR & see what the scam is, and perhaps more importantly, how the VICTIM is portrayed – they set it up like a warning to others – EDUCATION and ADVOCACY are what is needed to fight back!!!

A Different Me



My Ex Spath had cheated on me with a girl he met on a dating site. We were together 1 yr and for 8 months of the year he dated me and several women. FYI im a gay man, and my spath was “open-minded”. So this gal is a single hard working mother of 2. She moved all the way here from the east coast to the pacific northwest to live with him in the townhouse that i got for him ( i know!!!!!!, i lost this after we ended). So, what would he want with a single mother of two…she moved here with her kids after dating him online for 4 months…he has such power and control over people…sigh….crazy thing is that my spath and i are friends and he doesnt know that i know this…

Should i contact her and spill the beans and expose him or just let it all play out?


A different me:
take care of you first. Whatever you do, don’t do anything to endanger YOU. But if you can talk to her, it would be the kind thing to do. Do it without drama and arm yourself with books.
BTW, I’m north of seattle. Are we in the same area?

lesson learned


I agree with Sky. For a variety of reasons on that one.

If you can notify her safely, I say do it.

But only you know. Yea, where on the west coast? Sky is not far from me, I’m in oregon.


Hope to heal

Diff, I agree with the others, if you can safely do so, tell her. OMG she brought 2 little kids all the way across the country for this guy?? Whew, she’s sure risking a lot!!

I hope you are doing well. Take care of yourself.

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