By | December 15, 2008 117 Comments

Another sociopath in office: Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich

Even people accustomed to dirty politics were shocked last week when Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested by the FBI on federal corruption charges. Blagojevich had been under investigation for years, he apparently knew he was under investigation, yet he tried to put President-Elect Barak Obama’s Illinois senate seat up for sale anyway.

How blatant was the governor? Jay Leno joked that he listed Obama’s seat on eBay.

On Tuesday, December 9, the day Governor Blagojevich was arrested, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois issued a press release. It states:

A 76-page FBI affidavit alleges that Blagojevich was intercepted on court-authorized wiretaps during the last month conspiring to sell or trade Illinois’ U.S. Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama for financial and other personal benefits for himself and his wife. At various times, in exchange for the Senate appointment, Blagojevich discussed obtaining:

  • a substantial salary for himself at a either a non-profit foundation or an organization affiliated with labor unions;
  • placing his wife on paid corporate boards where he speculated she might garner as much as $150,000 a year;
  • promises of campaign funds — including cash up front; and
  • a cabinet post or ambassadorship for himself.

And how did the governor respond to the allegations? He proclaimed his innocence, showed up for work and defiantly rejected calls to resign.

Ran against corruption

Blagojevich was first elected governor in 2002 and reelected in 2006. He originally ran on an anti-corruption platform. Voters no longer believe the governor’s “always lawful” claim. His approval rating is now a paltry 13%.

In fact, back in February 2008, long before the governor was arrested, Chicago Magazine ran an article about him called Mr. Un-Popularity.

The article is a colorful, well-written description of Rod Blagojevich’s fall from grace. The story describes behavior that any Lovefraud reader would immediately recognize as sociopathic. For example:

  • Blagojevich married the daughter of a powerful Chicago alderman, Richard Mell, who helped Blagojevich get elected. Once he was the governor, Blagojevich discarded Mell.
  • Blagojevich feuded with practically every politician in the Illinois statehouse.
  • Blagojevich spent much of his administration fending off accusations of ethical irregularities and outright corruption.
  • Blagojevich never accepts blame for his or his administration’s mistakes.
  • Blagojevich makes no apologies for his defiant style.
  • When Blagojevich didn’t get his way, he “blew up like a 10-year-old” and threatened to run a senator out of the Statehouse.
  • The criticism doesn’t faze the governor. In public, he’s easygoing, unshaken and self-assured.

Mr. Un-Popularity is an excellent description of what happens when sociopaths are elected to positions of power.

Explaining the behavior

The author of the article, David Bernstein, tries to explain the governor’s behavior. In fact, he even quotes several people who call Blagojevich a sociopath. But he does it in the context of amateur “armchair psychologists,” and follows up the term “sociopath” with “madman.” Here’s what he wrote:

The governor’s strange behavior has been fertile ground for local armchair psychologists. Last summer, the downstate newspaper the Peoria Journal Star declared that the governor was “going bonkers.” Privately, a few people who know the governor describe him as a “sociopath,” and they insist they’re not using hyperbole. State representative Joe Lyons, a fellow Democrat from Chicago, told reporters that Blagojevich was a “madman” and “insane.” “He shows absolutely no remorse,” says Jack Franks, the Democratic state representative. “I don’t think he gives a damn about anybody else’s feelings. He tries to demonize people who disagree with him; he’s got delusions of grandeur.”

The author also came up with other possible explanations for the governor’s behavior. They include:

  • Blagojevich had some kind of personality change after he won the gubernatorial primary.
  • Blagojevich grew up in Chicago politics, and wanted to be an autocrat like former Mayor Daley.
  • Blagojevich was an introvert in an extravert’s business.
  • Blagojevich was jealous of the success of former Illinois Senator Barak Obama.
  • Blagojevich was feeling pressured by three years of federal probes into unethical behavior by his aides.
  • Power changed Blagojevich for the worse.

Another missed opportunity

All of those reasons for the governor’s bad behavior are nonsense. Rod Blagojevich is a sociopath, and that explains everything. He is doing what sociopaths do.

Some of the people that Bernstein interviewed got it right and correctly pointed out the governor’s personality disorder. So here’s what happened. Either Bernstein, like most reporters, didn’t really understand the meaning of the term sociopath, and so did not know how to use the information. Or, if Bernstein did understand what it meant, the magazine’s editors and lawyers didn’t allow him to describe Blagojevich as a sociopath because of concerns about objective reporting or potential lawsuits.

Rod Blagojevich is a poster child for this personality disorder. His shocking behavior on a national stage could be an opportunity to educate the public about these predators. But it looks like the opportunity will be missed.

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Like His behavior sudenly happened over night! Right!
and he had a job and his own place and nice clothes and a fine car! Could speak !

I would be willing to bet a Beer and two Cigaretts that he came from Money and has always been this way ! Any taker?? LOVE JJ

Elizabeth Conley

He sounds severely narcissistic to me. Even his white collar crime is consistant with narcissism. I’m not seeing the ASPD here, although it may well exist.

Elizabeth Conley

…and he may well beat most of the charges. Blagojevich prides himself in staying within the letter of the law. He’s hired very, very effective legal council.

Mind you, I don’t minimize the horrific impact of Narcissism. All the cluster Bs are big trouble.

Ox Drover

Apparently for the FBI to be legally tapping a governor’s phones, there is some OTHER pretty serious crap going on besides this “selling the senate seat” that just happened to pop up while they were trying to build a case against him for something else.

This may be only the scum that floated to the top of the cesspool and it makes you wonder what else is crawling around down there in the bottom.

It is obvious that without this investigation which just happened to find this particular critter in that cesspool the man WOULD be out there continuing “business as usual” and in the past he has always “gotten away with it” but now maybe he won’t.

Because he has NO SHAME, and accepts no blame, and really doesn’t see what he did as all that bad or criminal then he is obviously going to continue to try to stay in power–it worked the last times he did something “bad” and got caught didn’t it?

They (psychopaths) do not have shame or fear, and so he will try to brazen it out. They can’t comprehend that their bold stance of denial won’t work. Hare pointed out repeatedly that they don’t some how comprehend that they are so CAUGHT that you will not believe their denials. That their denials are so inconsistent with reality that no one with “one eye and half sense” would believe their lies, yet they LIE LIE LIE.

If my P-son were this guy, he would be doing the same thing! LIE LIE LIE.

OJ got away with it on the murder, but this past time his LIE DIDN’T FLY, and I don’t think this guy will have a lie that will fly either. He will go out kicking and screaming to the bitter end though.

Let’s see, we have the Senator from Alaska–convicted, but still claims he isn’t convicted til the appeal is over.

We have the Gov of NY–for prostitution

This guy for selling a Senate seat.

And I could go on and on and on! But what the heck, we’ve got such great government public servants, right!? Yea, RIGHT! I believe it–NOT. I think 99.9% of them are crooks.


Elizabeth and Oxy: What gets me is not only what they are and how they get caught, but, that some attorney would actually represent them. To me, that’s the incredible part of the whole messy situation. These attorneys that would represent a crook have no shame either.

I’m just shaking my head. It’s obvious that someone has morals and an ethical constitution in that Governor’s inner circle to tip off the FBI in the first place. I’m sure, the tipster is having his/her life destroyed before the Governor gets thrown out of office … and no one gives a hoot about the person that put everything on the line to have this corruption stopped. So whoever you are, I personally appreciate you. God Bless you and your family.


Ox Drover

DEar Wini,

Whistle blowers and especially ones that blow the whistle on powerful political interests frequently get crucified, literally.

In my little county in the 50s and 60s we had such corruption we made Life Magazine. The sheriff was one of THE most corrupt in the nation, he RAN the county like his own kingdom. We got a “crusading” newspaper owner/reporter here who started investigating the corruption and proved it. Eventually he was beaten nearly to death on the court house steps, and then railroaded on a trumped up charge of perjury and sentenced to prison. If Winthrop Rockefeller who lived in our county and was governor at the time had not pardoned him, this man would have died in prison, they would have had him killed.

My husband got “afoul” of the local crooks at the airport and started attending their airport commission meetings and questioning their financial scams with federal grant money and we immediately had the EPA out here to see if we were “bull dozing wetlands” AT THE TOP OF A HILL when we were installing the runway! They drove another man at the airport out of business by requiring that he move a barrel of solvent out of his business then calling the EPA to ticket him for “improper storage” so he took his employees and moved out of town.

OUr twon, which has railway access, freeway access and river access is losing jobs every day to other towns up and down the river/railroad/freeway because the new industries don’t want to put up with the corruption and graft. The only thing that saves us at all financially as a county is the natural gas bubble we are sitting on in the Fayetteville Shale, which is bringing in over the next 30 years supposedly 30 BILLION in revenues. Personally though, I wish the gas would evaporate and they would take their money and get out of the area, they are raping our landscape with these huge gouges cut into the mountains and hills to “level up” a pad on which to drill, bringing in “oil field trash” and crime and drugs….but my well runs mud without the filters and no one gives a hoot.

A couple of years ago, some guy WITH A SUSPENDED LICENSE passed my son as he was turning left (with his signal on) and T-Boned his car, and didn’t even get a ticket, cause his daddy was one of the “good old boys.” If the Trojan Horse P hadn’t been an outsider and my DIL hadn’t been from “off” (an outsider) they would have skated too.

But, you know, George Washington, the “father of our country” was an embezzler too from public funds, so what can you expect from his political “offspring.” LOL

Elizabeth Conley

The reason why I think it’s important to understand that the Governor is probably a Narcissist is as follows:

So we can recognize Narcissists. Narcissists charm, flatter, clean out bank accounts, commit sexual infidelity, devalue/discard and slander just like Ps and Ss. The difference is, they present differently than an S or a P, so you may never see it coming if you’re looking for the indicators of an anti-social personality. If you want to avoid the pain of betrayal caused by the charm-defraud-betray-devalue/discard-slander cycle, you’re going to have to watch out for Ns.

Put another way: If you’re trying to put yourself together in the wake of a relationship with an N, P or S, it really doesn’t matter which it was. If you’re trying to avoid the same pain in your future, then it’s absolutely critical that you recognize all 3.

The Governor:

1. He Prides himself as a very, very good person. If he was telling the story, he’d say that he CARES far more than practically anyone, Democrat or Republican. Don’t believe me? Have a look at his pie in the sky ubersocialist legislative projects. Blagojevich cherishes his inward and outward image as a super caring person.

2. He doesn’t really understand ethics. He prides himself in his anti-corruption legislation, and at the same time prides himself in always doing the LEGAL thing. Over and over he points out that what he does is LEGAL!!! This is a very important issue to him. If it’s legal, then it’s right… …Right? Truly, he knows the words but not the tune when it comes to moral issues. The signs are all there.

3. His conflict with his father in law is classic NPD. He closed down a landfill for EPA violations that happened to belong to his cousin. (Pretty ethical sounding – right? Uber-ethical – which is pretty much the point.) His father-in-law was an adviser to the cousin with respect to the landfill. Blagojevich scored public IMAGE points for himself at the expense of his cousin and his father-in-law. This shows his narcissistic inability to understand other people’s emotions and how distressing others might backfire for him. Also, the whole maneuver was designed to make himself look good at the expense of others’ images.

4. Blagojevich had a tantrum when someone disagreed with him. Ns do this. Disagreeing with them is questioning their status as perfect beings. Blagojevich has VENDETTAS with people who disagree with him or bring attention to his flaws. It goes beyond seeking revenge. He demonizes them, and yet he continues to try to convince them that he is both right and good. (A difference of opinion with an N is very confusing. They have no clue how to win friends and influence people.)

5. Blagojevich is a real player in the good-ol-boy network. He understands how the game is played and he plays it well. He expects TRIBUTE to be paid in the guise of gifts or board positions for 2 very important reasons. Firstly, because it keeps things legal most of the time. Secondly, because it panders to his ego. Lavish gifts, political support and board positions look good and feel good. It’s natural to think that the 1st reason is more important to Blagojevich than the 2nd reason, but I beg to differ. Given all the other indicators, I’d say the ego stroking is much more important. A Narcissist is entitled to everything he receives and more – at least he needs to believe it’s so.

So given that he:

1. believes he is a good person who CARES and needs you to believe too,

2. speaks the language of ethics but only understands LEGALISM,

3. enhances his IMAGE at the expense of others,

4. tantrums when people imply he’s less than perfect and engages in VENDETTAS with his critics,


5. probably doesn’t see the difference between a bribe and TRIBUTES to his wonderfulness,

(Plus not understanding other people’s emotions)

I’d say he’s a narcissist. That doesn’t mean he’s less dangerous than a P or an S, nor does it mean that his crimes are less serious.

The point is, narcissists are big trouble in benign looking packages. If you’re watching out for ASPD characteristics, an N may slip under your radar.

Elizabeth Conley

PS – There’s a pandemic of narcissism in modern ministry. Show me a famous Christian Leader making a fool of himself and his flock, and I’ll show you a Narcissist.


Elizabeth: That’s why any level of Government … we need to have them alternate positions so none of them can get a foot hole into establishing their kingdoms with giving cronies positions to surround themselves with like minds. And kingdoms is what it’s all about … on all levels of government. Therefore, alternate their positions … in a position for a year or two years … next position you go in … you are there for another year or two, next job … do that for the same time period … next job. The new employee filling the position left by the employee has the responsibility of speaking up and saying whether the job was done correctly by the last candidate. Along with alternating employees, you need to alternate personnel officer, union staff, agency staff that oversees the procedure.

It was so bad where I worked I kept thinking … the emperor or empress has no clothes … what are you people talking about? Because, of course, they were all talking nonsense because they were nonsense. I never in my career ever saw such corruption and such blatant disregard for the tax payers dollars. I still have nightmares over what I know.


Elizabeth Conley

The founding father’s never intended for people to become career politicians. They thought people would serve as Cincinattus served Rome, then return to private life.

That would help. I don’t think the good ol’ boy network can be shut down.


he looks very young, how old is he? He must also have a thick skin because he doesn’t look overly fussed by all the commotion. (according to the media, that is)


Puzzle: That’s because they don’t care whether the fuss about them is positive or negative … it’s attention they crave no matter how it’s packaged!


I just don’t understand how anyone could/can get so greedy? Seriously. I’m not trying to act like an idiot about this topic, but what is it with people believing they have to get more, more, more and more? That’s all they focus on, that’s all they want and all the other aspects of life are or become superficial to them. I’m shaking my head as I read this … to me, relationships in harmony was all I cared about. Even if I should argue with someone … I always tried to figure out a way to be on an even level with the person, aka to compromise? I always tell/told people (especially men) it’s OK that we disagree, as long as you respect where I am coming from and vice versa. I don’t expect people to give up their convictions, but I must have been home sick when they taught about greed and that’s all you should focus on in life.

Greed, the mother of all sins… and now we know why!



Sociopaths make good politicians because they do not have any difficulty LYING!

They will look you square in the eye and tell you a whopper! Hmmmm….let’s see……….this year we’ve been told the economy is fine, that housing is about to recover, that we have not been in a recession, that $4. per gal. gas is really costing us less than it did years ago when you adjust it for inflation….but hey, wait…….there was no inflation! Bernacke said so! Ya gotta believe it when it comes straight from the horse’s mouth! Oh, and we must not forget that this bad dream will be over by the middle of next year because we are printing bales of money to bail out everybody who is too big to fail! And, we won’t talk about what all this will do to the dollar until we have to….”I’ll think about that tomorrow.” (Scarlet O’Hara)

There are a few good honest public servants in higher office; men such as Rep. Ron Paul, (M.D.), but have you noticed they don’t get much air time. You have to go to their web sites or look for their comments on YouTube!

The evening news has become the equivalent of the daily psycho report and nobody seems to “get it”! I wonder who will get top billing tonight! Will it be another Wall St. personality, a politician, or both?


EyeoftheStorm: I think we should make lemonade out of all these lemons and put them all under a big circus tent together … where they all can work in the spotlights. This way, give them something constructive to do! And the public knows it’s just a big lie before hand … so if we ever get bored and have to see some drama … we can just head out to the rolling circus troops …as the hawkers say AND UNDER THIS TENT LADDDDDDDDDIIIIIIIEEEEEESSSSSS AND GENTLEMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEEENNNNNNN IS THE FORMER GOVERNOR FROM THE STATE OF X … with his MISTRESS IN TENT # 2, DATING THE FORMER POLITICIAN FROM STATE OF Y …. TO SEE THE FORMER POLITICIAN THAT BURNT HIS CONSTITUENTS IN TENT # 3 FROM STATE OF Z … HURRAY, LADIES AND GENTS …

I was wondering when our “beloved” Rod would be featured here. I’m in IL, but I’m glad to say I never voted for him. I wonder if his barber is the same as Trump’s?

I found this article regarding Blago, I think it really highlights his socio tendencies….

Chicago Sun-Times dx NPD

Elizabeth Conley

Narcissistic Personality Disorder – Note “entitlement”. It can and does lead to “God wants me to have this Rolex” & “These aren’t bribes from lobbyists, they’re gifts from my adoring fans.”:

Narcissistic Rage, or Why Rod Blagojevich Throws Tantrums:

Narcissists usually don’t have juvenile records, and generally don’t commit violent crimes. Their lifestyles often seem unusually conventional. If you investigate one, you may even find a significant body of evidence to suggest the narcissist is a pillar of the community.

If you’re paying attention you can spot him before you get in too deep. He craves admiration like a drug and loves to be the center of attention. He has a great deal of contempt for almost everyone but those he fears or needs to advance his agendas. He aggrandizes himself at the expense of others. He treats people in service industries either indifference or abuse, depending on his whims. He’s wound entirely to tight when it comes to superficial appearances. If you represent potential narcissistic supply or if he sees you as powerful, he’ll be incredibly nice to you. This doesn’t have to fool you, because his conversations will be peppered with self aggrandizing statements and unfair criticisms of others. His sense of humor is remarkably under-developed.


Elizabeth Conley: They should analyze him … he can be one of the many they round up … put him through years of therapy and see if anything of substance sticks to him.

I’m sure his wife will be blogging on here soon. Poor woman. She like so many others in high profile situations not only have the rug pulled out from under her … they have to have it done on such a public stage. Unbelievable.



HAHAHUUUUM! Beer and Cigaretts! LADIES! Now! :)~

Ox Drover

Dear sweet wonderful Wini,

When are you going to get it through your head (heart?) that therapy doesn’t help these people because they won’t listen to Tolle or even to God, THEY THINK THEY ARE GOD.

Reminds me of the old Joke about God. One day a guy was admitted into heaven and asked to see God, and St. Peter pointed over to a man walking arond with a stethescope around his neck and a lab coat on and said “That’s Him” and the man asked “Why is he dressed like that?” and St. Peter said HE THINKS HE’S A DOCTOR! LOL ROTFLMAO

I used to know a Narcissistic doc that would answer his phone when you called him to report on a patient’s condition, “This is God.” (he really did think it too) Anyway, I told him once that that was VERY OFFENSIVE to me and he said “Oh, well, it just means “G-ood O-ld D-oc” and I told him, “well, from now on I would appreciate you answering Dr. X.” And after that he did, but he was never less of the Narcissist.

I do feel sorry for their wives, and unless they are just as disordered as their husbands I can assure you they are miserable as well. Maybe they made deals with the devil to keep their perks and positions, or maybe they are like Hillary and made a deal with the other devil as a political alliance, but whatever, I know that no one married to them has a marriage. They are either co-conspiritors or victims.

BEing held up to public ridicule has got to hurt the families.

Healing Heart

JJ – what is up with the beer and cigarettes?? This is some kind of inside joke I keep reading but not getting…….Will someone please hook Indy up?????


I’ll Quit ! It’s a joke that shows how the psy/soc cares only about one thing ! s/he

Healing Heart

Oh don’t quit!


Oxy, Oxy, Oxy … it’s just my optimistic side kicking in. I think if we put them on a banana island … gave them a fishing pole to fish with, a knife, a fork, a spoon, a cup and a bowl … would they be happy with the simple things in life?

Just a thought. What if they didn’t know about all the perks in the world … what if just allowing them to live a very simplistic life would get them back to being HUMAN … with feelings?

Anyway … most of the time I’m just thinking out loud … I can’t help thinking that they are conditioned over the years to be this greedy!


Healing Heart … didn’t anyone tell you not to open the box that Indi’s in? LOL.

Luv ya Indi … don’t write to Boink me on the head.

Healing Heart

I’m the new kid – but I’m paying attention!!! Won’t make the same mistake twice…..:-)


Wini said: “I think if we put them on a banana island ” gave them a fishing pole to fish with, a knife, a fork, a spoon, a cup and a bowl ” . what if just allowing them to live a very simplistic life would get them back to being HUMAN ” with feelings?”

Wini, I am like Oxy in thinking Tolle or God won’t cure them, but I do think your idea of putting the socios and psychopaths on an island may cure them…..assuming a tsunami hits. 😉



Just one problem with your plan about putting them on an island. Even if you gave them the fishing pole, et. al., most of them are so damned lazy they’d starve to death while waiting around waiting for somebody else to come along and catch and cook the fist for them.


Wini, if you put the psychopaths on an island with bananas, knives and spoons, and a pole to fish with, this is what they would do. They would slip on the banana peel and try to sue someone over it. Then they would use the knife to knife all the other people on the island in the back for their food and dwellings. They would fashion the spoons into masks and pretend they were blind, so they could put their cups out and beg. That is what they would do. As far as what they would do with a fishing pole, I don’t know. I can tell you what I would like to do with that fishing pole……….but it probably wouldn’t be forum appropriate.


they don’t make Islands BIG ENOUGH


Now You Said Island
if said Island has Good Cold Beer and Good Cigaretts and Kerry Degman! I’m set sail! :)~ LOVE JJ that was’nt Anthrax Island was it ? ? 🙁


Healing Heart: I was only kidding about Indi … he’s one of the good guys … he will however, make you think when you blogg with him. (LOL).


Elizabeth Conley

How come they get an island? I want an island. Heck, I’d be tickled pink if the x#$%ed phone would just quit ringing!

I’m trying to get my kids to settle down and read this AM. The girl has a good book, and she’s happy.

The puppy doesn’t have a good book to consume, so she keeps heading for the Xmas ornaments. 4 tatted snowflakes and 5 cinnamon hearts have been devoured thus far. I’m thinking I should just tie twine around a dozen dog biscuits and tie ’em to the lowest boughs. Wadayathink?

They boy can’t find a good book either. He glued the National Geographic Dinosaurs Reference Book pages together last year and he’s already read the 2009 World Records Book. His pinging off the walls is making me bonzo. I’m trying to remember where I put the duct tape. Waddayathink – Roll him up like a mummy or just a couple of turns around the ankles, wrists and mouth?


Good morning Elizabeth: I can tell you have been up for a while (LOL)!

Hi Donna! Have you been reading about this guy?

is his last name pronounced “MAD-off” or “MADE-off”? As in made-off with billions?

DUh…just saw the other thread on him. Sorry. Don’t know how I missed it….call it brain freeze 🙂 It’s like 16 degrees with windchills to 0. Have a good day all!

Elizabeth Conley

Donna Anderson,

I have a high regard for your opinions. Taken out of the context of Blagojevich’s earlier life, a snapshot of his recent behavior would definitely suggest that he is a sociopath. You’re well within your rights to insist that he’s exactly that. My opinion differs because I consider his entire adolescent and adult history relevant to the question.

I cannot find a persistent pattern of S behavior reaching back to his mid teen years. I’m reasonably confident in concluding the pattern doesn’t exist, because he has lived under the spotlight and been through too many political campaigns. His dirty linen has been aired, and there is ridiculously little. That in itself is worthy of notice. An S can’t stay that squeaky clean, an N can and will. Ns flatulate soprano; they’re that uptight.

In at least half of the insider espionage cases in the US the perpetrator has a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Ns get through the background checks for high security clearances because Ns tend to have ultra clean records. Regardless, there’s no such thing as “Just an N”. N is serious, it just wears a more acceptable facade. Ns hide their evil from themselves as well as everyone else, but the stuff they do when given access to power is very, very bad. Ns are subtly yet profoundly awful parents, emotionally deadening spouses and devastatingly abusive supervisors. N is not a benign condition. Ns do vicious, awful things when their supersensitive egos are threatened, and their sense of entitlement makes graft highly acceptable to them.

A lot of people are going to call Blagojevich an S, because what he’s done is very bad. This is akin to trying a juvenile murderer as an adult due to the severity of his crime. The latter is understandable, and even practical, but it doesn’t change the perpetrator’s age at the time of his crime. Often in the process of trying a child as an adult we are forced to examine aspects of the crime’s circumstances that were unique to the perpetrator’s condition as a juvenile. Inevitably, what is, is. In Blagojevich’s case, his Narcissism is the unique condition that both facilitated his rise to power and drove his bad behavior once power was acquired.

Calling Blagojevich an N rather than an S is not excusing or downplaying the seriousness of his condition or the awfulness of his crimes. It’s simply intended to facilitate a clear understanding of what occurred, and how similar occurances can be avoided in the future. Placing Ns in leadership positions is well worth avoiding.

I hope you’ll forgive me for my annoying insistance that Blagojevich is an N. I think all Ns, Ps and Ss are human wrecking balls. The squeaky clean images Ns present with does not mitigate their awful behavior. In fact, it seems to increase the shock and bewilderment their victims experience. I’ve undoubtedly become something of a crusader when it comes to spreading this point of view. I’ll drop the subject now. Certainly I’ve written more than enough.


I agree Elizabeth.


With all these stories, mine included, I hear repeatedly in my head what Dr. Phil professes: that is, we teach people how to treat us.
If that is true, have I taught my S the treatment I received?
His infidelities came at times when I was preoccupied with my Mom and her health concerns (surgery, failing heart and kidneys) and then her death. Each time I was busy with pressing family matters, he was out picking up women instead of looking for work to support both of us (because I curtailed work to help my Mom and stopped working to relocate after her death to deal with estate matters). He trolled the internet, he claims, to find work but I discovered a new mistress he landed from another state via shortly after the death of my Mom (and my beloved canine companion to cancer). He (the absent spouse/S) abandoned our marriage and marital debt (some $100K) and is apparently living with his mistress (of 2 years); they lived in Detroit, MI, in Marine City, MI and Florida while she remains unemployed (he’s supporting her). He had the nerve to tell me when I last saw him (2006) that I treated him like I was his meal ticket while he lived in his deceased mother-in-laws’ house rent/mortgage free while I paid taxes, expenses, etc. S and mistress move around every year or so. As I understand it, he told her I’m his former girlfriend — he doesn’t acknowledge I’m his wife — and his mistress believes him even after I confronted her that I am his wife! Go figure!! What does that say about the two of them?
In 2008, he committed fraud/forgery and stole my personal information for tax purposes and claimed me as his exemption, filed married joint on paper, had me living at his addresses (haven’t seen him/lived with him since 2006), he/they got my stimulus check, etc. all while his mistress lives off the good tidings and is his *homemaker*. Scares me to think that she could be colluding with him…
Yes, the authorities have been notified…
So Lovefraud group, did I teach my S to treat me this way as Dr. Phil would have me believe?

Ox Drover

Dear Alasksnowbird,

Welcome to LF, glad you found your way here, it does seem that you “qualify” to be a “full fledged member of our club” and for that I am sorry.

May I ask why you are still apparently married to this man? I hope that he will ge prosecuted from the FRAUD of his fake IRS filing. I encouage you to continue to hound the authorities about his.

They do not take responsibility in any way shape or form for the consequences of their behavior, and I truly hurt for you that you have been through such a traumatic D & D.

Hang around a while and you will find knowledge and power and support here for your healing! Again, welcome.

Ox Drover

Dear Alaska,

The answer to that as far as I can tell you, is a resounding NO! I too got hoodwinked during the illness and death of my stepfather, the illness of my mother, and the traumatic accidental death of my husband. It’s hard to focus on what is being done to you during times like those.

They’re pretty good at kicking you when you are down.


Hello Alaska:

You got hoodwinked by a different kind of “bird.” Dr. Phil is good at talking a line that might be appropriate for the majority, but he did a TV special last year on a psychopath who kept his kid in a box — and Dr. Phil clearly had no clue what personality disorder he was investigating.

No, you did not “teach” this sociopath how to treat you this way. As a normal person, you couldn’t have imagined that level of heartlessness.

Take a deep breath, and forgive yourself. You didn’t know, and you couldn’t have known.



I agree with Rune and OxDrover about Dr. Phil and his sayings! Most are recycled “Oprahisms” he has plagiarized for their quick catchy media appeal. They sound good. He has a whole bagful of them! Just because Dr. Phil says something, does not make it valid for every individual in every situation. I have heard him say some things to abused women that make me cringe and the audience sits there starry-eyed while drinking in every word.

It’s always valuable to consider whether or not there is more we can do to draw the line with someone and take care of ourselves in the process. It’s important to ask ourselves if we are being clear with the messages we send, both expressed and otherwise.

It’s my life experience, however, that disordered people (Ns,Ps, and Ss) do not hear and respect what you say. They will continue to do what they want to because the reality is you do not matter or exist for them. That is the flaw in Dr. Phil’s line, IMO. Any changes for the better are temporary and part of the intricate web they weave to keep someone hooked so they can continue to run their number.

You cannot teach someone how to treat you when they are an N,P, or an S because they simply do not care even one teeny tiny bit about you, or what you want, or the way you think you should be treated.

You know the intricacies of your situation; you have information Dr. Phil does not have. It is very hard to generalize when it comes to human nature and come up with infallible sayings or formulas that will be true in all situations. As Donna pointed out, even professionals have a hard time defining and describing these people. They slip under the radar and are often identified only after doing something criminal. Believe in yourself and in what you know to be true. Dr. Phil is in the entertainment business now. Remember that when you watch him.

Elizabeth Conley

Eye of the Storm & Alaskan Snow Bird,

Eye of the Storm is dead right here: “You cannot teach someone how to treat you when they are an N,P, or an S because they simply do not care even one teeny tiny bit about you, or what you want, or the way you think you should be treated.”

For the greater part of my life, “To have a friend, be a friend.” was my mantra. One P, one N and one S later, I’ve developed a less naive view. (Slow learner, aren’t I!?)

There are institutions and individuals who seek out people who naively believe that if we do the right thing by others, they’ll do right by us. These institutions and people then proceed to use and discard us as if we were disposable convenience items.

Only be adopting a warier, more defensive point of view can we avoid repeating this pattern. It might be interesting to each of you to take the MACH IV test soon. I found that my pre – P/N/S personality would have gotten a far lower score than my post – P/N/S personality. In a word, I’d become more cynical. Awareness of them changes us. The trick of it is, we have to be careful not to become like them.

They are paranoid and cynical because they believe everyone shares their low moral character. “Good” people, they reason, are simply too stupid to be effective. We were naive, because we believed everyone was essentially well intentioned. We need to stay well intentioned, while sensibly aware that not everyone is good. It’s a balancing act, because paranoia and cynicism can lead to cold ruthlessness if untempered with Love.

Be Blessed Dear Friends,


PS – I recently refused further involvement in a particular ministry because the S ministry leader consistantly mistook my gentleness for weakness and my patience for stupidity. He was unteachable. The better I treated him, the worse he treated me. Expressions of brotherly Love were largely wasted in his case. Most people simply couldn’t understand why I would drop the ministry like a hot potato after years of dedicated service.

No explanations are possible. The ministry leader is too S to understand goodness, and the people around us are too naive to understand S. So I do what I must, explaining to no one and appearing cold and unfeeling. Only people who have been where we have can accept the truth. Be thankful for the knowledge. It will pay dividends in the long run.


The Key is to not get over confedent in our Knowledge to the point of losing our HUMBELNESS Knowledge is Power BUTT power corrupts ULTIMATELY! Give a Man Power and you will see His True Character!

JUst when we think we have it all figured OUT ! Bamm! We are about to be Blindsided!

I have never once Disrespected You! EVER!
To put the word ; DRIVEL in a complament toward me is a backhanded complament!

I had a BEst friend! He is past into the True Reality now!
He said to me when I came out to him ,that if he had not known me for 23 yrs. He would have nothing to do with me. That is the same Backhanded , talking ,typeing that goes before thinking! LOVE JJ


Indi: Yes, absolute power corrupts absolutely. That’s why everyone needs to ensure the checks and balances are still in place.

In my case with my bosses, they systematically ensured all the checks and balances no longer worked. Oh, the positions were still there … making it looked liked they worked, except … they put all their cronies in those positions … all the decent people were forced out.



Donna wrote…”As I’ve written before, in my opinion the mental health profession has done a lousy job of naming and defining these disorders, and an even more terrible job of educating the public about them. That’s probably part of the reason why we have guys like Blagojevich in office to begin with.”

Illinois is a pay to play state. Maybe they all are in one way or another. Influence peddling is the illegal version of lobbying. Every day our local talk radio stations focus on the amount of corruption in a major nearby city………..and the fact that people keep re-electing the same cast of characters who keep lying, and stealing their way through ongoing terms in office!. They keep getting re-elected because those who vote for them either don’t see, or think they will receive some benefit.

I bet a lot will eventually come out about Gov. Blagojevich, unless it gets suppressed for political reasons.

Daly > Rezko > Blagojevich > ???? Guess Who!


Thank you so much for writing this article concerning our Governor (with hopes to be soon late Governor) Rod Blagojevich. Being a residence of the state of Illinois this of course concerns me very much. But I am also employed by a agency that receive funding from this state. Which is behind on paying this and other bills from his offices. In short I may lose my job soon. Governor Rod Blagojevich is in fact a sociopath in every sense of the word. Whenever I speak of him with reference to having a personality disorder you can see the lights go on with the people I speak with. So many people still know little or nothing about these type of people and the great harm they do to society businesses and families. We need to make people see them for whom they are and the great negative conduct and personality traits they possess. I watch a documentary on Jonestown and one speaker stated that whenever we “hear” the word occult we dismiss it and believe we know all there is to know about this occult. When in fact we need to look closer at it and come to a full understanding insomuch as to the “type” of this occult and what harm they may do to it’s members and the general public. I believe the same goes for the word “sociopathic” and or someone that is a sociopath. Whenever we state that person might be or is a sociopath that person might believe they know all there is to know about sociopathic behavior. They dismiss the word and may then state “oh his/she is crazy and or insane”. We all need to know not only the word but what is behind that word (sociopath) and the great harm it may pose. In short we need to educate the general public as to exactly what a sociopath is and what great harm they will and can be capable of toward the general public both governmental private and socially as a whole. Again thanks Donna Andersen for writing this concerning Rod Blagojevich and his recent actions due to the fact he IS a sociopath and will only hurt the citizens and businesses of the state. We can only hope that his impeachment will be processed and his resignation will soon be forth coming…


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