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By | May 20, 2012 45 Comments

Another violent abuser wipes out his family

On April 12, 2012, Katherina Allen had the audacity to tell her husband, Kevin, that their relationship was over. He came into a Craker Barrel restaurant where Katherina and their two daughters, Kerri and Kayla, were celebrating Kerri’s birthday. He pulled out a shotgun and killed Katherina and Kerri. Kevin Allen was then shot by police. Kayla, who was wounded, died a few days ago. Read:

Kayla Allen, Cracker Barrel shooting victim, has died, on HuffingtonPost.com.

Original report:

Ohio girl in critical condition after dad kills family, shoots er inside a Cracker Barrel restaurant, on FoxNews.com.

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.


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Near

Clearly they age out of it.. Amirite?! <_<

That poor girl. It says she was surrounded by her family while she was slipping away, but I wonder how aware she was of the fact that her sister and mother were gone. That must have been torture.

🙁

Ana

What a horrible story.

Near, are you in NE also? You said something about the Pats and Celtics…You crazy guy, you! 😉

Near

Ana: Oh, you saw that? No, I’m not there now. I’m there in spirit, though! Does that count for anything? ^_^

Are you a Patriots fan too?! If you are, I’m making you my official E-sister?!

As for this story, the caption of the photo said the husband turned the gun on himself, but the report said the police killed him. I’m confused by that. I’m glad he died either way. It would have been awful to see him get 15 years or something for this.

Ana

Near,
You are my E-Brother! Go Pats!! or whatevah…

Yes, glad he is dead and not ‘suffering’ in jail.

Near

Ana: Yay! E-Family rocks! ^_^ *huggles*

Hey, I think some spaths actually ENJOY prison and interacting with the others. That’s why solitary confinement is a punishment.I’m also glad he is not ‘suffering’ there.

Too bad this family was not allowed to enjoy their birthday party. 🙁 He did not shoot anybody else is what I find interesting. He KNEW who he wanted to kill. I wonder if he shot the girls first in order to make the mother suffer. 🙁

No doubt he saw these girls as objects.

MiLo

I don’t think this story makes it clear, but it was my understanding from local news reports, that he was attending the birthday party for his daughter. Since his wife had left him, and feared for their safety, she thought they would be safer in a public place, like the restaurant.

Also, HIS family requested he have a full military funeral. The military refused.

Near

Milo: Oh! Thanks for telling me that info. I understand now why she chose the restaurant. It was a logical choice. Sadly, logic never works when dealing with unpredictable types, or maybe extremely predictable types, once spotted.

I’m glad the military refused! I can not believe his family would be so bold as to ask for that. Those girls were also family. Are they not hurt by this? Hmm. I wonder what their side of the story is, rationalizations and all.

Ox Drover

The family of the man who blew up his home after snatching his 2 sons from the social worker and locking them in the house wanted to bury him near the boys…and his MISSING WIFE’S FAMILY did not want that.

Sometimes families of the perp are just not able to accept the guilt of the perp.

Having been and am the mother of the perp in the murder of a young girl, I understand how difficult it is to accept that YOUR son became a murderer.

Even when the EVIDENCE was there for me to hear he kept DENYING it…and I kept hoping. But finally we sort of came to the point he no longer denied but I no longer asked.

When he finally did “admit” to it, I think his motive was to frighten me in his frustration about me not going along with something he wanted me to do and “but mom, what would jesus do” didn’t cut it he tried the “you wouldn’t like me if you knew the real story of my crime, it was worse than the cops even knew”

When I was so stunned I didn’t react like he expected (although I’m not sure what was expected) he went back to “but mom what would jesus do?”

The families of the perps are condemned by society as having “not raised him right” and somehow WE are at fault for what our adult kids do. We have also “lost” a kid in these situations….someone we loved and for whom we had dreams.

Especially if our loved one/perp has also killed themselves or been killed by the police. We don’t want to believe it. We are in denial.

Truthspeak

OxD, your reference to the guy that hacked his children to death and blew the house (and, himself) up, the article above, and the many, many other articles about such crimes are glaring reminders that CHANGE IS NEEDED in the legal systems, Family Courts, and Social Services.

I just cannot fathom how anyone could justify such an action. It frightens me that this is happening more, and more.

Ox Drover

Truthspeak,

Denial is a powerful emotional road block to believing the truth.

Denial is an emotion that protects us, in the face of evidence to the contrary that what we are seeing CANNOT BE TRUE.

Denial is what keeps us with the psychopaths.

denial is what kept the Jewish people living in conditions “hoping it would get better” and DENYING what they were seeing and hearing about

Denial is what kept the people of Germany denying it was happening and that their leader was doing it.

Denial is what enables people to accept (eventually) something too terrible to accept…in small bites.

Could you eat a WHOLE COW? Think not? well, you have probably eaten SEVERAL whole cows in your life time—one bite at a time! That’s what denial lets us do, is eat the whole cow, but one bite at a time….we just can’t accept ALL the truth at one bite it would choke us and kill us, but denial allows us to DENY it is true, and only take a TINY bite of that truth but deny the rest.

accepting that YOUR loved one is a monster is one of those whole cows that we cannot eat in one bite.

Truthspeak

OxD, you are 100% spot-on. Denial is very, very powerful.

This sort of goes back to the “fence sitters.”

For me, the discoveries were certainly one huge, bawling, kicking cow. I had a choice: swallow that thing, whole, because the cow was rotting and putrid, or take it a bite at a time and gag for months and months.

I didn’t like the options…..needless to say. 🙂

Ox Drover

Well, truthspeak, I took it a bite at a time and gagged for decades….and yes, it was a huge, bawling, kicking ROTTING carcass that I didn’t like a single bite of…it would have been better in RETROSPECT to have swallowed it whole but trying to do that almost did me in.

When Patrick was FIRST ARRESTED FOR MURDER and of course denied he had done it and kept away the evidence (I didn’t look very hard for it actually) I locked myself in my house for 3 months and cried and wailed, didn’t eat, didn’t sleep and moaned like a gut shot dog who had lost her puppies. Looking back in retrospect (retrospect is always 20:20 vision) I should have been hospitalized for my condition…but I didn’t know. I didn’t ask any one for emotional help. I didn’t see a counselor or anything else. I just cried and cried.

My family didn’t know how to help me.

God provided though, and about 4 months after Patrick was arrested a friend who was Director of Nurses kept calling and begging me to come to work for her at a mental health hospital. she was desperate for good nurses. She let me do intake interviews for parents with out of control adolescents and I had to sit there for 1-2 hours and hear their tales of how out of control their kids were, their psychopathic kids….and I realized that there were OTHERS SUFFERING LIKE I WAS….and it helped. I would sit there all professional and caring, then I would go into the bathroom and cry and cry and cry for myself.

It helped, it was therapy for ME. I worked there almost 2 years until I almost got stabbed one night, barely missed it. Then I decided I needed to find another safer place to work. But the therapy for me was very helpful. I didn’t get ENOUGH therapy to totally disconnect from Patrick but it HELPED. It was a start.

That was a BIG cow….over time I did improve and looking back I can see now that that “therapy” in that job did help. Just knowing I was NOT ALONE, that I was not the ONLY parent suffering helped me.

Just as when I came to lovefraud and realized again I was NOT ALONE it helped. to know that Liane Leedom, a bring, well trained psychiatrist got conned….it helped. I wasn’t stupid, I was HUMAN. And realizing that just being human made me a potential victim, not a stupid person.

Near

Ox Drover: Your son sounds like an absolutely horrifying person to talk to. He seriously used the whole “What would Jesus do” spiel? Man, talk about a MAJOR predator to play on your beliefs. I’d probably be intimidated if I ever had to talk to him. Does he have that ‘look’ or ‘feeling’ that Dr. Becker talked about? 🙁

More power to you for facing him, Oxy! ^_^

witsend

Just to give warning parts of this post may be triggering.

Last fall a man was arrested (Terry Sturgis) for killing his 10 year old son (Tramelle) with a CLUB, by beating him to death.

This has just recently gone to tral. Although I live in a different state, I live very close to the Indiana state line and so this trial is being covered in our local news.

The story is HORRIFIC.

Terry Sturgis, 35 lived with his mother. Terry and his children lived there. And the grandmother also had other grandchildren that she had living there.

Terry Sturgis beat his children on several occasions. The grandmother was reported as saying that she tried to “pay” Terry MONEY to not beat the children “so bad”. And she (grandmother) would also offer to do her sons (Terry) laundry if he would “take it easy” on the kids.

WTF is wrong with this woman?

The day that Tramelle was killed:
Started off, as the school called on his brother. Tramelle’s brother (14 yrs old) was reported as stealing pencils from the art class room.
Terry Sturgis started to beat the 14 year old & 10 year old Tramelle as well with a club. Both boys were duct taped and beat repeatedly with the club & a HOT IRON that was applied to their chest and other parts of their bodies.

Tramelle was choking on his own vomit and the father ordered the 14 year old to deal with cleaning it up. (this was testimony by the 14 year old in the trial)
At some point Tramelle fell down a flight of stairs and was unconscious . (also reported by 14 yr old in the trial)
His father yelled at him (14 yr old) to check to see if his brother was still breathing.

911 wasn’t called until it was to late.

The crime scene tech testified at the trial that he took 760 photos at the scene it was so bad. Also that he noted 62 WOUNDS, a broken arm, and the iron imprints on Tremelle’s body at the scene.

The 14 year old also testified of other torture beatings in the past. With “heated” by a lighter screw drivers and just AWFUL stuff.

AND the grandmother addmitted to treating both the boys with cocoa butter for burns with the iron and hot screw driver in the past.

The 14 year old has also been to the ER in past for being beat in the head.

About a year ago a teacher made a report to CPS because one of the kids flinched from pain when she put her arm on his shoulder.

CPS went to the house.

An ANGRY Terry Sturgis went to the school & was cussing & carring on so bad he had to be escorted out of the school.
He was quoted as saying” What goes on in my home..Stays in my home”.

Police were also called on two different occasions. (by neighbors)

These kids lived in a torture chamber. And all attempts to report this went unfounded????

It was said that the main floor and upstairs of the house were the adults (Terry & his mother) resided was clean, almost immaculate. The basement were many of the kids slept was filthy.

Who KNOWS what happened later that day to those kids the day Terry went to the school ranting & raving after CPS was there?

Terrys mother (grandmother) was arrested for a lesser charge for not reporting the abuse.
Terry’s mother tells the press: “My son isn’t the monster he is reported as being”
OMG…He just killed her grandchild?

Terry was quoted as saying when he was arrested “I didn’t know that the club would kill him”

Testomony at this trial should end in a day or two. The jury openly shed tears when the 14 year old gave his testomony.

Everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong in this case. EVERYONE failed these kids.

Witty,
people just don’t care. They say they do but it’s inconvenient to care. *sigh*

Ox Drover

You know that is what makes me so sad/mad about this kind of shiat…where are the cops when these kids are being beaten? where is DCS? I just want to cry over stuff like this and I can’t find the tears…I also want to cuss and raise cane! I want to do things to the people who hurt kids like this.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

Witty – i do hope this man lives in a state with the death penalty.

others culpable, besides the bizarre grandma: the school, CPS, the police. nobody cared ‘enough’.

we never know what affect our actions will have. maybe our call is the one that stops the next monster. we all have to protect kids.

I have started watching the neighbourhood kids more closely – I have been here 3 years now, and there is a small band that are rough. the oldest one is the one i keep my eye on the most. he creeps me out. what’s his background? there is a kid who lives 3 houses up – i have intervened on several occasions when he and his mom were at the bus stop. the kid is often very enraged. the mother is too. chicken/ egg? she also runs (god forbid) a little childcare out of her house – so little kids are exposed to both her rage and the rage of her son. I think i am going to call someone about her.

the older kids and the ones on verge of being teens hang out/ play in the woods right across from my office window. have eyes on them a lot. always its the rageful one and the oldest one that draw my attention.

thanks for posting this witty – i feel less like Gladys Kravitz, and more like a protector keeping an eye on how these kids act out with one another.

MoonDancer

Witty that is a heartbreaking story. But the sad truth is this is just one case in a million, it seems every nite on any local news there is child abuse of some kind and so often these kid’s die because child welfare just dont get it,,but then sometimes it’s the foster parent’s that do the killing…life just aint fair… I agree with Ox, I would like to do something to those kind of people, there is just no excuse,,even if they were treated that way as a child themselves it doesnt make sense…

one/joy_step_at_a_time

hens, I watched a movie the other night, titled, ‘The other F word’. it is about punk rockers (very famous ones), and how their lives changed when they had kids. Each one of them talked about how being their for their kids was their highest calling. Each one of these men spoke of being neglected, abandoned and abused by their fathers – and how theywere going to do everything they could to not be like that.

witsend

One/joy,
Indiana is a state that still does have a death penalty.

His lawyer originally was going for the insanity plea. That didn’t fly.

Now his lawyers defense is going to be that Tramelle died from choking on his own vomit.
Which I guess would mean a lesser “degree” of murder than if he died from the wooden club blows or iron burns.

The youngest brother I think he is 8 also testified. The judge had to speak with this youngest one first to make sure that he understood the difference between telling a lie or telling the truth before he could be sworn in.

It is so sad that 2 brothers have the “responsibility” in a court room to put their father in jail…Because all the adults involved failed to prevent this from happening….

I am not sure how the grandmother can LIVE with herself??

one/joy_step_at_a_time

witty,

well, that is some ‘consolation’.

the grandmother is either deep in ‘supply denial’ or is disordered, herself. I am betting on disordered.

Truthspeak

Witty…..dear god in heaven…..

You asked, “WTF?” was wrong with the grandmother? Points to consider:
* Grandmother was caring for all sorts of grandchildren. Enabler
* Grandmother offered money to stem the abuse. Enabler and Denail
* Grandmother…….was probably abused in the same manner, was probably fostering the rest of the grandchildren (INCOME), and she did not want CPS involved because all of those children would have been removed from her home (LOSS OF INCOME) and fostered in other homes

Grandmother enabled Sturgis to kill his own son, and she should be charged with a crime, as well. Denial is no excuse – she knew what Sturgis was doing was bad enough to attempt to bribe him to stop.

Those poor children, and all children who are being “raised” in such environments – I just can’t excuse the denial and enabling.

Divorced from Gaslighter

I think Truthspeak hit the nail on the head: the money that Granny was going to give her son for not being so vicious to his own kids was money that SHE had been given to care for her own grandchildren as foster children.

I hope her license for fostering is revoked, although the saddest thing is that the remaining grandchildren will probably lose contact with one another, and be placed in multiple different homes and attend different schools.

There is tremendous pathology in the foster care system, and according to Judge Judy, the fostering grandparents often refuse to foster their grandchildren unless they get Super Jumbo monthly payments. Judge Judy said that anybody who wouldn’t foster their own grandchildren for the normal rates shouldn’t be allowed to foster at all.

Truthspeak

DivorcedfromGaslighter, sometimes, a child in foster care is safer than being with “family” members. Having said that, I agree with you 100% – taxpayers are footing the costs of foster care, NOT the parent(s). And, the sad fact is that the “system” is so torqued and broken that I don’t see any way of “fixing” it except to dismantle the whole program and start over from scratch. NO MONEY – vouchers will do. Everything should be paid via VOUCHERS.

Times were when children who had parents that were unfit were cared for by their Communities – via churches, synagogues, neighbors, etc. These days, “It’s none of MY business,” has replaced any sense of community.

MiLo

Witty ~ totally heartbreaking story, one that happens way too often.

I do want to clear up what seems to me to be some misinformation regarding the comments. I am saying this as a grandmother who served as an official “FOSTER PARENT” to my grandson before gaining legal custody of him. I am saying this as former foster parent. I am saying this as a foster parent recruiter for DCF.

Unless I missed something in this article, I did not read that this “Grandmother” and I use the term loosely, was a FOSTER PARENT. I read she had other grandchildren living with her, but not as a FOSTER PARENT. IF she would have been a certified FOSTER PARENT, DCF would have done a home study and would have been involved with this family on a regular basis. The article simply states that DCF was notified and investigated.

Grandparents often refuse to foster their grandchildren unless they get SUPER JUMBO monthly payments????? For grandparents to be official FOSTER PARENTS – and this happens ONLY when DCF and the court has officially removed the children from the biological parents – they get the same monthly payment as any other FOSTER PARENTS. Many times grandparents/relatives “foster” their grandchildren/relatives without ANY payment whatsoever.

Also, the amount FOSTER PARENTS are compensated for caring for children is barely enough to pay for necessities that the children need. For example, rates in our area are between $10 – $50 per day, depending on the “special needs” of the child and the child’s age. Have you ever tried to feed a teenager on $10/day? A younger child or baby, formula and diapers, sometimes you get a diaper allowance of $25/$30 per month – good luck. For birthdays and Christmas you may get $30/$50 for presents.

This is not to say that there are not people who “use” the system, with no regards to the child’s needs. There are FOSTER PARENTS who take in as many children as the laws and regulations allow and don’t feed or clothe them properly and mistreat them. They are however, few and far between and should be eliminated and charged when DCF does their job properly.

Bottom line, there are no JUMBO payments and most dedicated FOSTER PARENTS take money out of their own pockets to meet the needs of these children. These are not well adjusted, normal children, they ALL come with baggage. They did not just drop into the system. They have been neglected, abused, born to crack addicted mothers, you name it. They all require A LOT of specialized care.

There are vouchers used for clothes and school supplies. Most school associated expenses are paid directly to the school, so the FOSTER PARENTS do not have access to any of those funds. While all medical bills are paid by the county or state, it is up to the FOSTER PARENTS to get the children to many, many appointments (therapists, etc) and the expenses associated with that are paid by the FOSTER PARENTS.

Yes, this system is broken, very badly broken. From the courts that decide the destiny of these children to the DCF agencies that are underfunded and overworked. The system IS based on “cared for by their Communities” – trouble is the “community” doesn’t seem to care anymore. The LACK of good, quality, caring, loving foster homes is a big part of the problem. Many times DCF knows if they remove a child from their home – THERE IS NO PLACE TO PUT THEM. That is a fact.

Foster care needs to move into a more permanent home environment. FOSTER PARENTS need to be a thing of the past. We need FOSTER/ADOPT PARENTS. People who are willing to make a committment to these children to be their permanent home if and when custody is obtained. Then, these kids will have advocates.

The courts need to recognize that children ARE NOT ALWAYS better off remaining with their unfit, abusive, drug addicted, violent biological parents or grandparents like the woman in this story. DCF workers should not have to beg their FOSTER PARENTS to take one more child, because they have no where to put them so they can be safe. We have to start thinking about these kids, BEFORE they are killed.

darwinsmom

Gruesome Belgian news on same subject…

Monday afternoon a woman filed a missing child report with the police. She claimed she had dropped her 4-5 year old daughter off that same morning at kindergarten, but when she came to pick her up that afternoon the school claimed to not have seen either the girl or the mother. The mother was divorced from the father.

From that moment of the news I thought: “She’s lying!”.

The next day she had changed her statement: her daughter had already gone missing before Monday morning… She had gone to the grocery store, left her child in the car, when she returned her daughter was supposedly gone (kidnapped). She said she had panicked and hence had construed the lie of dropping her daughter off at school afterwards.

Again I thought, “She’s lying!”

The only person to have seen the girl alive aside from the mother, was the father (her ex husband) who had dropped their daughter off at her mother’s Sunday afternoon at 16:00, after his visitation.

Yesterday, after police found bloodied clothing of the mother and the daughter in her washing machine, did the mother finally confess to murdering her child.

On the night of Sunday to Monday she strangled her daughter, then chopped her into pieces and put her body parts in bags and in the freezer, hiding htem behind frozen food. Police had unfortunately not yet detected the frozen body parts of this poor poor toddler on their first house search on Monday evening.

The mother claims that her ex-husband was very controlling, autorithive and used to beat her up. She was afraid that eventually he’d do the same to her daughter and she admitted to revenge herself upon her ex-husband for abusing her in the past. She had written a letter before her murder of her daughter where she outlined her motivation for what she planned to do… She had also planned to commit suicide on Monday after reporting her girl gone missing.

My thoughts? “BULLSHIT!” There is all the evidence that she planned everything. Not only did she kill her daughter, but she chopped her up afterwards which indicates lack of emotions, lack of any love for her child, wanting to hide evidence, and her whole set up lie with the school indicates trying to shift blame and setting up a crime she thought she could get away with. Had she indeed wanted to kill herself out of depression, she would have done so immediately, instead of dismembering her child and hiding her in the freezer. It’s possible she wanted to commit suicide, but then she would have done so to ultimately shift the blame on the father. Her whole accusation of the father sounds of projection to me.

That poor little girl!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/mum-admits-strangling-chopping-up-daughter/story-e6frf7jx-1226365458552

(English short news article)

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/detail.aspx?artikelid=DMF20120524_096

(Dutch news paper link, but with a picture of the little girl before she was gruesomely murdered)

witsend

Milo,
This is a very sad story.
And I always try to understand even if the information isn’t being presented/reported – both sides of the story. What the possibilities “could be” that are NOT public knowledge. Because lets face it what we hear on the news isn’t the whole story. Lots of variables that we never know. Will never know.

This grandmother admitted that she would bribe her son with money and doing his laundry….So he wouldn’t beat HIS children so bad.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around that. That she thought that was ENOUGH , to protect those kids?

No matter how much I try to understand “where people are coming from” I can’t understand that?
Treating the childrens burns after he put a hot iron to their skin….? This was all going on in HER house.

It is in the jurys hands today….His defense lawyer is trying to present that Terry had no knowledge that this wooden object he beat his son with could kill him? And that the boy died from inhailing his own vomit, not the beating.

I don’t understand that either….I thought that “ignorance” doesn’t matter when it comes to the law?

But it is an ALL or nothing as far as the murder charge goes. (he has other counts against him) either guilty or not as far as murder.

Terry Sturgis is on dialysis 3 days a week. And judge actually took this into consideration as to when to let the jury go into deliberation. Today at noon.

I have never read or head anything as to if the grandmother was a foster parent to her other grandchildren or if they just lived with her.

G1S

Witty,

I took the grandmother’s statements as coming from fear. She didn’t have enough courage or emotional energy to demand or do more. In her mind, she compromised by asking for less. Unfortunately, it was a black-and-white situation. There should have been no abuse whatsoever. A “little abuse” is not acceptable.

That’s denial. It’s right up there with “he only hits me when he’s been drinking” or “he only beats me when I’ve done something wrong to deserve it.”

I agree that the grandmother had probably been abused as well.

Thank you, MiLo, for clarifying all the differences with the term “foster parent.”

What bothers me is, again, the mindset that people believe that they have the right to do whatever they want to THEIR children in THEIR homes.

I am starting to wonder if modern, “enlightened” orphanages would be safer for these children.

It all comes down to costs, I’m sure. It’s cheaper to put the kids somewhere where someone will pick up the bulk of the costs of their care than the states so I guess I answered my own question – private homes would be the route to go.

Darwinsmom, what a beautiful, precious little girl.

Divorced from Gaslighter

The program that I heard of where grandparents were given very large sums of money per month to foster their own grandchildren was in New York ten years ago or so. All of the programs with Child Protective Services are in a constant state of flux as rules and regulations are amended, etc., so there is no telling whether that program still exists.

I seriously doubt that very many people are fostering teenagers and losing money on the deal. People may be willing to foster adoptable young children at a financial loss, in hopes that the arrangement will be made permanent, but I am certain that many people fostering older kids are making a good profit.

The one person that I knew who adopted from the foster care system was getting around $475 dollars per month (tax free) plus Medicaid coverage. The child was very smart and healthy, and about 8 or 9 years old.

Many of the foster homes that the children are taken to are as bad or worse than the homes that the children left, and when they are taken from their own homes, they lose their neighborhood, their school, etc.

Foster care is a complete mess, although I don’t doubt that there are many fine foster parents. The man that I knew who adopted through the foster/adopt program appeared to be an excellent father, although you can never know what is going on in somebody else’s house.

If I were going to rework the foster care system, I might keep foster parents for the children under eight years old, but over eight years old, they are better off in a well-run orphanage, where they can have safe playgrounds, piano lessons, tutoring to help them catch up to their grade level, etc.

It is better to stay with a third-rate biological family than to be shunted around a bunch of second-rate foster families.

Darwinsmom,
She had too much agency to be suicidal. lying, plotting and planning takes work. She’s a spath who can’t keep her lies straight. That worked for Casey Anthony, I hope it doesn’t work in Belgium. It’s unreal what these spaths get away with.

As far as the grandmother offering her son money to NOT beat his kids: BullSh**.

That would just make him beat them more. If he didn’t beat them, she wouldn’t offer him money to stop right? She KNEW that. She liked the drama. she got to enjoy the pain and then be the one who salved it. IF she really cared, she’d have kicked him out.

This is the same way my parents operate. Been there done that.

MiLo

Witty ~ I always try to look at both sides and knowing news stories, there is more we don’t know than that we do.

HOWEVER, IMO – there is no justification for a grandmother to know this is going on and NOT STOP IT. These poor kids had nowhere to turn. Like you said, everyone failed these kids.

Divorced from Gaslighter ~ I’m sorry, I would still respectfully disagree with your comments.

P. S. I’m pretty sure my 11 year old grandson eats more than $475./month.

witsend

MiLo,
I agree there is no justification for that.

I am thinking as G1S said that she was probably abused as well as a child. Doesn’t justify her denial in this situation…Just gives some explanation behind her acceptance of the UNACCEPTABLE behavior that was going on in her home.

In the end it was the grandmother who “woke up” in the middle of the night to loud commotion and sent her (also sleeping) grandaughter downstairs to see what was going on. And dialed 911…To LITTLE to LATE.

The father Terry was quoted as saying when he picked up the wooden object to beat these kids with “He said, `Me and my stick, we’re going to have some fun,”‘

So this was fun? For whom? Certainly not for the children.

Verdict is ALREADY in just a blurb on the TV just now: Guilty on ALL counts. Will see what that means later at 5.

MiLo

Witty ~ At least they got the guilty part right.

Today was the hearing to determine if the 17 year old who shot the students in the Chardon, Ohio high school back in Feb. should be tried as an adult.

This is a rather new JV Judge we have in our county. The previous judge was one of “the good guys”. He was killed by a drunk driver a year ago. So far, I am so impressed with this new Judge. He has kept this boy under JV court while he ordered a battery of psy. evals. He was found competent to stand trial because he knows right from wrong, but was also found to have a variety of mental illness.

The Judge stated he had no other choice, by law and the seriousness of his crime, than to turn him over to be tried as an adult. I think he made the right choice, really the only choice. He cannot be given the death penalty. Hopefully, he gets the help he needs. The deputy that first arrested him said he knew he had shot people, but he didn’t know how many or if they were boys or girls. He said he had no reason to, he never got mad and had no idea why he did it.

Just so sad, so many families in so much pain.

witsend

Terry Sturgis was found guilty on all 14 counts. The judge (a female) said that some of the counts are overlapping and this would be addressed at the sentancing hearing in June. Such as since he was deemed guilty for murder the neglect charge leading to his death would be an overlap.

The judge also spoke with the jury afterwards because there was so many horrific accounts covered in the trial & graphic details that have yet to be “leaked” out of the courtroom (by the press) and suggested they all seek counseling. I am sickened by the little that I know of this case. I can’t even imagine what the jury had to see and hear.

MiLo,
So much pain….It does not surprise me that the 17 yr old boy suffers from mental illness. It would surprise me if he didn’t.

Truthspeak

Witty, I sat in DV Court on 2 occasions for the restraining order hearings. I couldn’t stand it – the stories, the evidence, the tears, the photographs, the stupidity, and the wanton violence was just horrific. I cannot, in my wildest nightmares, imagine what judges and juries hear in cases like Sturgis’. I just can’t.

witsend

Truthspeak,
I have to say that I believe it would be life changing to be involved in a trial such as this one.

G1S

I just went on Facebook.

One of my friends had posted the link below asking that people “like” it.

http://www.preventchildabuse.org/index.shtml

It is a Prevent Child Abuse organization in the US.

If you click on it, a map of the US comes up with each state showing. Click on a state, and its preventchildabuse.org chapter(s) and contact information display.

MiLo, I wasn’t justifying the grandmother’s behavior. I was explaining it. Knowing what I do about domestic violence, that what’s happens. People minimize and trivialize what is going on. It’s a coping strategy, especially when people feel powerless.

People outside the situation assume it is a simple thing to pick up the phone and call, but it’s not.

Years and years ago, when my BPD niece was still in a highchair, my P sister went ballistic with rage against me. She tried to throw me out of her car in the middle of the night in the woods in the pouring rain. This was Easter Eve. Why? I had gently asked that she get some therapy. She didn’t want to hear it. She wanted her ex-husaband to be blamed for everything and she was the victim.

My niece was in the backseat in her car seat. Her head was whipping back and forth watching us as we speak.

I am a good 5″ taller than my sister so her “throwing me out” of anything was a joke. I refused to get out of the car. She drove to a shopping plaza and parked the car under one of the parking lot lights. She went into a rage again. Once again, I stood my ground. I would not leave as I felt I was protection for my niece.

We went back to her place. She put my niece in her high chair. The way the apartment was laid out, there was a long hallway from where the high chair was (in the living room) to where I was in the kitchen.

I will never forget the image of my sister in my niece’s face, pointing at me, and SCREAMING in a rage, “That’s your f-ing aunt. Your f-ing aunt is an a-hole. Your f-ing aunt is getting her things and leaving NOW!” The rage was horrifying. My niece was wide-eyed and pushing back in her high chair just to get away from my sister’s voice.

I did get out of there and drove the two hours back to my place, which was in the next state over.

The next day, I called the 1-800 child abuse number in her state THREE TIMES to report her, but nobody ever picked up. It was Easter Sunday.

I was shaking when I was calling. Mind you, this was before I got into any sustained therapy for myself about my family or in Al-Anon.

By the time Monday came, I was too emotionally exhausted to try again. I simply could not pick up the phone.

I had been battered as well. Do I regret not calling? Absolutely, but the situation was too big for me to face on my own. The family would have rallied and supported the P because that’s what they did when she attacked me and my son.

I was the bad news because I wanted to out the family’s dirty laundry.

I am sure, too, that my family rationalized what happened because no blows were ever delivered. Nobody “really” got hurt.

They would have also justified her anger, saying that I should have kept my mouth shut about the therapy. Yeah, it was too bad that she did that to my niece (no mention what was done to me,) and the P could probably use some help, but really, it was none of my business; no wonder the P got so angry.

G1S

MiLo & Divorced from Gaslighter,

I’m sure the programs vary state by state.

My son went out with, for a few weeks, a girl who had been in our state’s foster child system. They were both juniors in high school. He got pushed into dating her by some of his well-meaning female friends.

This girl had a lot of emotional issues. Part of what she told us at the time was that her adoptive parents adopted her and had another foster child because of the sizeable sums our state paid to the parents.

One of her major beefs was that her parents didn’t care at all about her, they were only interested in the money that they got from the state.

She also told me that she had $25,000 in an account that she got from the state for her college. She said that her adoptive parents get money from the state as well to keep her. I found that bogus since she was adopted, but she insisted. I didn’t know what to make of the situation.

I had no way of knowing if what she said was true. This wouldn’t be anything that would be posted on the state’s website. I took everything with a grain of salt, especially because our state is so hard up financially.

At the same time, it made some sense. Paying a family $25,000 to take a kid off its hands would save the state a lot of money in the long run if you look at the costs in years.

We had Thanksgiving at these people’s house. You could cut the dysfunction with a knife.

The mother sat there and went into how nobody should any ideas about getting on their hands on the family’s money if this girl became pregnant. If she got pregant, they would throw her out and she’d get nothing from them. She told me how wealthy her family is and about the property that they owned. Mind you, I never brought these subjects up. I would never ask about such things. My jaw had dropped as I sat there wondering, “Huh? Where did that one come from? We just came for dinner.”

My son and this girl parted ways right afterwards. She started threatening to commit suicide if he didn’t continue to date her. We couldn’t get away fast enough.

The girl is still around. She’s very intelligent, as are her adoptive parents, and is now in college.

I ran into the father recently in a local store. He told me that they had another child. There are big, big issues with this family. I simply smiled and couldn’t get away fast enough.

The money incentive seem plausible, but as to the figures and what was involved, I have no idea.

This was all about foster parents. It was NOT about grandparents being foster parents. Somewhere in the back of my mind, it seems to me that grandparents cannot become foster parents in my state.

I’ve never been closely involved with these matters so how accurate my information is, apart from what that girl told me personally and what I observed at the Thanksgiving dinner, I don’t know.

MiLo

G1S ~

I am sure that programs vary state from state. My point was no one is going to get rich or even supplement their income with what is paid. The amount of $475-500/month would not even keep a child in day care for 8 hrs a day for a month. Foster care is 24/7 with all expenses, except medical, paid for with that money.

Yes, there is such a thing as subsidized adoption, usually only with “special needs” kids who are going to require ongoing medical, therapy, special schooling on a long term basis. It is an incentive for parents who could not otherwise afford the financial burden to adopt a “special needs” child.

Even if you take your own grandchild as an actual foster child, you must have a home study done and take classes and meet all qualifications that the agency has. Yes, grandparents can be foster parents.

Foster kids are kids removed from the parents and custody (emergency – temporary – permanent) is granted to the county department of children services. Now, a court can decide to place the child directly with relatives such as grandparents. They are not technically foster children.

Back_from_the_edge

TODAY IS DAY 11 WITHOUT STALKING.

YAY!!!!!

G1S

You’re abosolutely correct, MiLo. Nobody ever got rich taking in these kids.

And you bring up a point that I had forgotten – this girl that my son knew was a special needs kid because of all the abuse she had suffered in her life. You don’t find out about these things until several months later with a casually dropped, “Oh, by the way, Mom, did I tell you…”

It’s all very sad in the end.

Is the study of a grandparents’ home done because the state will provide financial assistance?

darwinsmom

g1s,

Yes a very beautiful little girl. It’s just too horrific to think what happened to her by a person she was so dependent on.

Sky,

My thoughts exactly: lying spath. One newspaper had a psychologist commenting. He guessed she surely must have some personality disorder, but then went on about her “going in survival mode” after the murder, “shutting down her emotions and going denial”. What about barely having emotions and believing she could plan and set it up in a way believing she could get away with it by lying?

kim frederick

Hi Darsmom. Let me share a dream. I was in a house with x hub, I left 17 years ago. We were going to be moving, and there were people looking at the house, deciding if they wanted to rent it. He said to me, “well, I managed not to kill myself last year, but it might be all for naught.” I asked, “what are you atlking about?” And he pointed to a shelf above the kitchen sink where there was an oil lamp burning…but it was sputtering, and roaring up and dying down, and I was scared because it was supposed to have been put out for a long time. I was scared that it was dangerous, and went to reach for it, but he warned me that it might blow up…it was better to leave it alone. I did, but I felt really guilty and scared that the people who might rent the house might blow up after we left. What do you think?

Truthspeak

Judge Judith Schiendlin wrote extensively about the foster care system in the State of New York where she practiced as a Prosecuting Attorney, as well as a Family Court Judge. Sure, foster payments will vary from State to State, but when one factors in the following, it can add up to a very hefty sum:
* cash support payment
* comprehensive medical coverage
* educational incentives
* “special needs” compensation (up to 1500, in some States)
* no-cost daycare (Head Start, etc.)
* comprehensive mental health coverage
* supplemental food assistance

Some people DO get quite well-off for taking in “special needs” foster children. In the State of New York, Judge Judy mentioned that adoptive parents of formerly-fostered children receive continued financial support until the adopted children have reached a certain age.

In my own area, two women fostered 8 “special needs” children and received an outrageous sum of cash and benefits, and the children were subsequently removed after they were found to have been neglected.

darwinsmom

Kim,

I think the oil lamp still burning might point to some low burning feelings still be lingering for the ex… You mention it’s in the kitchen. Food often signifies needs, your emotional nourishment, and the kitchen is where those needs are prepared. So, the oil lamp has a double implication: either you still have the need to have a last ember burning for him; or the feeling is one of still feeling as if you need him… somewhere in the background.

The new renters, in that pov, might indicate that you fear those lingering feelings for the spath might create conflict if you let someone new in your life.

That is what I think your dream might mean, Kim

I’ve done 2 significant things for myself, yesterday and today. I finally gave a reply to my big love’s confession of last month. Well I had replied to it before, but had been saying “Took me by surprise. Need time to digest this.” My reply basically meant that I am open to him making a decision to reunite with me physically and that I believe that whatever the future may be and wherever either of us are, we are good for each other (inspirational), some way or another. That there are sufficient grounds to try a union, but that neither of us can guarantee a happy ever after. That it’s not my ultimate decision to make, since I wouldn’t be the one moving to the other side of the planet; that it would require his resources and willpower, and I therefore cannot take responsibility for it. And also that while it’s his decision, it may not be the right time for him to make it, since he’s playing with several future ideas/plans and he’s still reintegrating his recent past with the present. I told him that I’ve always loved him (attraction, emotional, friend, romantic) and never have been out of love with him, but I had moved on several years ago: both accepting my feelings for him as well as us not being more than platonic.

So basically I decided, “Yes, I’m willing to be a couple again if you decide to move to Belgium. But everything’s still in the air at present, probably for the best, and I’m totally fine with that too.”

Important step for today: I had an appointment with the bank (that I made last week) to discuss the best way to proceed with paying the remainder of my debt (5000 €). It was a credit reserve (via the Visa) that was maxed out. I transferred that to a personal loan (which was ok’d) that I’ll be paying off in 30 months, with payments of little less than 200 € a month… costing me 785 € in intrests (much lower than it would cost me via the monthly payments of the reserve). And the signed letter to anull the credit reserve is already posted. Meanwhile I have a retirement savings plan going (tax reductable), a conservative effect saving account where I’ll be investing 30 € a month, a saving account to build my own emergency fund that I’ll be putting at least 100 €/month on, and by the end of August my 3 month depository on my rental appartment (1300 €) will get released to be put straight on my savings account for my emergency fund. So, in 2.5 years I’ll be out of ALL debt, while having saved up money too. The bank official gave me a supportive comment when I walked out the door: I should be proud of myself for having paid off what I had payed off, and that I was on my way to a healthy financial situation again, where I wouldn’t have just payed off all debt, but also would have built several savings: emergency, retirement and extra. And YES it feels good!

As for the murderous mother: 3 psychiatrists were appointed today by the judge to evaluate her (curiously awaiting their findings), and she’s been put on suicide watch while being held in pre-trial prison. Furthermore, she had written a will where she referred to her daughter’s death (proof of premeditation) and what caused the idea that she contemplated or planned to kill herself, but her lawyer declared today that she “couldn’t kill herself after she had murdered her daughter” (of course not… she’s a spath). Police will start an investigation whether the father used violence against his daugher as the murderous mother claimed (I’m sure she’ll love that!).

Personally I doubt very much that he was ever abusive. Santana Duran and the father were divorced for 3 years and were co-parenting Diana. Only last month had Santana filed for sole custody over Diana. Something tells me she wanted to hurt and control the father by doing that, just because she wanted to. There probably was a low chance of her getting sole custody from the get go, and so murdering her daughter was plan b. I also suspect she was jealous of the bond or love her daughter may have felt for her father. At 4 years old she would have been more able to express and talk about her father.

In any case… I’m hardly inclined to believe one word from her.

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