By | June 11, 2010 75 Comments

Brain scan lie detection not ready for court

Two companies are currently marketing a cutting-edge solution for lie detection—fMRI, or functional magnetic resonance imaging. This is a specialized MRI that measures changes in blood flow related to neural activity in the brain.

A federal judge has just issued a report on whether fMRI lie detection should be admissible in court. His conclusion: Not yet.

Read Is fMRI lie-detection evidence admissible? on

Read fMRI lie detection fails its first hearing on reliability on the Stanford Law School Blog. This article includes a link to the judge’s actual report.

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Laws and courts

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Ox Drover

There have been some studies done that show that fMRI is not as reliable as it is being touted as, so I would be very skeptical about it. I don’t doubt though that something of this kind of “lie detector” might be possible, but with psychopaths, you just never can tell what they might be able to “get around.”

Good links to look at though!


Thank you for the articles, Donna – this is an intriguing topic, to be sure!

I don’t think that there IS a silver bullet that will be a 100% accurate lie dector. These tests are developed BY humans and are used WITH humans as the subjects. As we know, a basic lie dector test can be fooled under the right circumstances, and they can also deliver results that are erroneous due to extenuating circumstances. We just don’t know enough about the human brain to figure this out, and I don’t think that we ever will.

OxD, I agree with you that spaths will always, and forever, figure out a way to get around any test regardless of what it is. The brain does many different things under different circumstances: being tired, being hungry, being frightened, being stimulated, there are just too many variables to come up with a 100% accurate test.

Just my 2 cents. 😀


CONGRATULATION ON YOUR TENACITY with the parole board and politicians.

It’s hard and tiring, emotional and waring……but in the end….when the results show themselves….WHOOOOOO HOOOOOOO!

Just another reason why we should NEVER GIVE UP!!!


Ox Drover

Erin B, Thanks Babe! I feel like I have lived up to the EB AWARD!!!!! Where the heck did that post go? I “lost it” can’t remember what thread it was on, as you posted this I was actually looking for it. Sheesh NO BRAIN! LOL Yea, I am really REALLY stoked on this one!

I remember reading a news article my best friend sent me from the Dallas paper about that guy getting the phone call on a smuggled cell phone from a DEATH ROW INMATE (you’d think that would be the most secure area of a prison) LOL and going BALLISTIC and shutting down the prisons for a complete search.

So I am really glad that I GOT HIS ATTENTION!!!! And he in turn contacted the HEAD of the STATE parole board, so I think I scored some points!!!! Maybe a lot of points! Sometimes you just have to know which bell to ring to get some results.

I am sure you know those two e mails MADE MY DAY today!!!! I sent out copies to my entire list of friends I e mail! I’ll be dancing in the streets tonight for sure!!!


I lost the post aswell that’s why I posted it here….

It must be such a rewarding feeling for you to be heard. Unfortunatley it was ‘pointing out the obvious’ to these peeps who should have done something to begin with. It should have already been in his file to be considered.
I feel strongly about the lack of integrity in people doing their jobs…..and if thier lack, puts others in danger……then WE need to speak up, as you did, and do thier jobs for them.

Unfortunately, this seems to be very prevelent in the law. If we can’t change it…..and it seems to be getting worse, then we can join forces and do it FOR them!!!!

I guess… takes a village!!!!

Good going, know you did well…..and savor your efforts!

Take a snapshot of this in your mind……for the next feeling of not wanting or having the energy to pursue something that is critical in keeping yourself safe from harm from a pred.



OxD…….I missed something – was the spath son denied parole?


OxDrover says:
TOWANDA!!!! YIPPPPPPEEEEEE!!!! HOOOOORAY!!!!! I just got an e mail today from the head of the parole board in My P-son’s state, I had contacted a state senator there who has as real PROBLEM with certain kinds of infractions inside prisons, and I wrote him a letter telling him that my P son was guilty of THAT infraction and 18 other serious ones, including a weapon in his cell, and this particular State Senator is head of the PRISONS DIVISION COMMITTEE in that state, so one of his minions sent a SIGNED LETTER to follow up the e mail he sent to the HEAD OF THE PAROLE BOARD for my P son’s permanent file.

Neither of these guys is a person that an inmate wants to be “on their case” or to even know their names, much less have a NEGTATIVE LETTER ABOUT THEM IN THEIR FILE!!!!! WHOOOOOOPIE!!!! TOWANDA!!!! HIPPPPPEEEEEEE! WHOOPIE DOOO AND HIP-HIP-HOOORAY!!!! So, great day for the good guys, you all!!!! Even a blind pig gets an acorn ever now and then!!!!

Purewater, don’t worry about it, I bet’ya Stevie has broad shoulders and isn’t going to pout about a negative comment or two. I’ve had “foot N mouth” diseasse a time or two here myself hee hee so don’t worry! (((hugs)))) I’m just glad you are here cause I can see you taking the bit in your teeth and running with all the information and support you are gaining here. You just keep on keeping on!!! (((hugs))))

Friday, 11 June 2010 @ 4:14pm


OXDROVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TOWANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

God bless you, gal – oh, I really have tears of joy for you, here!!! WOW……..thank GOD someone out there made something happen! GOD BLESS YOU, TENFOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!

{{{{{{{{{{{{SUPER HUGS}}}}}}}}}} I don’t know what else to type, here – I feel relief for you, a strong sense of accomplishment for you, and vindication for you.


I think it will be a great day when there is a tool we can rely on for 100% accuracy.
Dont thinkit’s long off.

I’ll take the home unit please!

Ox Drover

You know, “a burden shared is halved and a joy shared is doubled” and that is what LOVE FRAUD IS! Just to have you guys to share my joys with and share my fears and my burdens with is what makes this place so freaking special! Thank you all from the bottom of my heart!

I have worked so hard to keep him where he needs to be not only for MY safety and the safety of the rest of my blood relatives and my adopted son but the world in general. I’m sure he thinks it is REVENGE, and maybe once upon a time I might have felt I wanted revenge on him, but now I just want SAFETY and [email protected]

I just finished a book by a woman who was STALKED by her x husband for 40 years, he tried to kill her several times and almost did it, then, bless her heart she married another one after she got divorced from the first one and HE STALKED HER TOO. This was back in the says when the cops wouldn’t get involved with “family problems” and even though she was beaten and in shock after she flung herself out of a moving car to get away from him, they would do nothing! But she helped get the STALKING LAWS passed, so you know, we can make a difference if we don’t give up. Look at how much good for how many people LoveFraud has already done.

I don’t always feel really “empowered” but TODAY I do, and I am so glad I have you guys to share it with!!!! ((((hugs)))) and Thank you Jesus!


Oh shit…..don’t tell me that! 40 YEARS!!!!!!



What a relief for you, and a victory. I know you are a strong woman, but to live in fear of your son getting out and stalking or threatening you, had to have been like a dark cloud hanging over your head.

Thank goodness that you have the tenacity to be your own advocate and to make a difference. This senator took you seriously and listened to the facts and did something. I am so happy for you.

The book you mentioned about the woman who threw herself out of the car to get away from her abuser, then fought for the rights of people who were stalked, wow. So amazed by her bravery.

Women who have the courage to take on the system are trailblazers and so inspiring.

Cheers to you!!!!!!


OxD, you deserve a sense of victory, my dear!!! Once upon a time, sure it might have been revenge, but learning about spathy and the fact that these people are NEVER going to change becomes a mission to make others safe. Just make them safe.

You are an inspiration to me – a beacon of hope and sanity. God bless you, again……

Brightest, most brightest blessings to you!!!

Ox Drover

Thanks, guys, I will be doing a book report on this woman’s two books I have read, she is really a great gal! The first book tells her story + some “how tos” and the second one is mostly “how tos” on protecting yourself, hiding out, etc.

I’m working on two fronts, first is to KEEP HIM IN PRISON, and secondly to deprive him of FUNDS, which of course my egg donor is keeping him liberally supplied on a daily basis and then for after she is deceased by will and other means. Don’t know if I can keep him deprived of significant money to finance his friends to track me down, but will try if I can. Just keeping him in prison in an era in which SERIOUS VIOLENT offenders are being released wholesale to “save money” is another problem entirely. I am hoping though that at least the money my egg donor gives him will have to be spent in the jPRISON COMMISSARY or the “company store” as they call it. LOL

One of the points this woman makes in both her books is that YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE and cannot depend on the law or others to TAKE YOUR SAFETY seriously. This is also where ErinB and I both agree totally.

It is very validating to me though to be listened to by this state senator and the head of the parole board, I think that they are TWO TRUMP ACES and I doubt that my P-son will be able to beat THAT PAIR OF ACES! But nothing is over til the FAT LADY SINGS though, so until his parole hearing I am not taking ANYTHING for granted.



I’m off to bed, but wanted to congratulate you on your “victory.” You are an inspiration to many, having been in the trenches a long time. God Bless!

super chic

Oxy, you are fabulous!!!!!!!!!!!!!
An inspiration!!!!!

Ox Drover

Thanks, Guys, it’s been a long battle and I think I am Starting to “get it” somewhat now, but everytime I think I have “it” something else pops up to remind me that I have to KEEP ON LEARNING!!! That’s the thing I think I never got before was that there isn’t a place you reach that you “know it” and “get it” all—or are totally capable of spotting them right away.

I think one of the reasons that I did get taken over and over by the different Ps was that I really didn’t have enough concept of what THEY are. Just like a horse can be large or small, black or white, or spotted, and still be a horse, a psychopath can be quite or loud, emotionally and/or physically violent or covertly violent, they can appear to be the pillar of the community, they can be smart or dumb, male or female, old or young, but NONE OF THEM HAVE A CONSCIENCE, but you can’t tell by looking or listening only, you have got to get to KNOW THEM and see how they behave.

Learning the common demominator of the psychopaths, the DISHONESTY, the lack of conscience, the narcissism, the maliciousness, the greed; once you see those aspects and realize that NO ONE with those character traits is someone you want anything to do with….now that’s progress, but it takes a while to get there. So I will just keep on trucking and trying to learn more and enjoying each day, one at a time!


This is a late congratulations, but CONGRATULATIONS!

Also, thank you for repeating (what victims should memorize and write 100 x daily):

“Once you see those aspects and realize that NO ONE with those character traits is someone you want anything to do with”.now that’s progress, but it takes a while to get there. “

Ox Drover

Dear Purewater2,

Thank you PureWater, I appreciate it very much! I am stoked, greast day!

Well, that sentence is the ONE thing I had to get through my head is to stop making excuses for people doing BAD or MEAN or DISHONEST things. A person can’t be a LITTLE dishonest, it is like a LITTLE dead, or a LITTLE pregnant, it is more a case of EITHER/OR, not one of degree. Yea, I think someone can be a little bit too much Narcissistic, or opinionated, and still be okay, it is that person that thinks it is okay to “steal a little” or “cheat a little” and have NO CONSCIENCE ABOUT IT.

I won’t say I never stole, or never cheated at anything, or never lied, I did, but I also KNEW IT WAS WRONG, AND FELT GUILTY. The differences is those people who are not worth our time don’t even feel guilty about it! They justify it, to themselves, and try to with others.

Well, me off to bed too! G’nite! God bless our sleep tonight, all of us!


OxD, your above post has some strong, sound insight. “Stop making excuses for people doing BAD or MEAN or DISHONEST things,” is probably the statement that I can best identify with.

I was talking to someone, just yesterday, that I was the type of person who had always given people the benefit of the doubt. She said that her upbringing had taught her the same value, but that value did not translate into looking the other way when people did things that were harmful.

I agree – and, I’m never going to say aloud to anyone that I offer the benefit of the doubt, ever again. This is where the foundation of my boundaries needs constant tending to – trust for me should be earned, now, rather than given freely, as it once was. Perhaps, as a tactic to feel accepted, I would even voice to people that you really had to “do something” in order for me to lose my trust in someone. Not anymore. Never again. That simple statement was one of the most inviting doors for the spath to enter. If I say ANYthing about trust issues, it’ll be that one has to earn my trust and that I do not give it away freely, and stick to that mantra like glue.

And, OxD, I really, REALLY appreciate your touching on the responsibility factor for our individual safety! I cannot rely upon anyone else to protect “me” except myself. I surely can’t rely upon law enforcement or the court systems to see to my safety, especially when it involves a spath! I learned that ugly truth with the former spath business partner! All of the documentation, the running log of harassment, and vehicular tampering was meaningless to law enforcement. “We need PROOF!” My direct question was, “How much more ‘proof’ do you need? You are the people who can access a forensic technician, not me! Aren’t you supposed to conduct the investigation?”

Exactly, OxD – the onus of our safety sits squarely upon our shoulders, just as our status as either victim, or Survivor does. Once we are aware that what we’re dealing with is abusive, we can’t rely upon anyone else to diagnose someone as spath or advise us to get out. We have to come to that determination on our own and take appropriate steps, or not. If we choose to do nothing, then my feeling is that we can blame the spath until the moon turns to green cheese, but the responsibility is ours, alone. If we remain in whatever relationship we’re in after we realize what it is we’re dealing with, then it becomes MY fault for maintaining that friendship or relationship.

Thank you so much for all of your hard work, your courage, your teaching, and your learning, OxD. Brightest blessings.



I read it on the other post, your news landed in the middle of ‘something else’ it and did not get the attention it deserved….

Just want to say I’m so happy for you, standing up to EVIL the way you did, in the hardest of circumstances because HE is your son and it must take an extrordinary level of healing to be able to handle something so difficult so beautifully AND SUCCEED!!

I presume that means he is safely off the streets and in jail for long term? so you have achieved something very solid….safety for your family!!! and life!!!!

Dance SAFELY on the streets to night!!! TOWANDAAAAAAAAA!!!!


the drover or oxes and rider of asses whirls in the moonlight, arms outstretched, hands holding skillets, face turned to the moon.
a moment of peace, a moment of justice, a moment of hope. she opens her mouth, yells, and the fields reverberate with the sound of, TOWANDA!


One -step! That’s a beautiful Vision!!:)xx

Have a great evening everyone! I’m off to watch the football:) Come one England!! …:S x


Wow, One_step! You’re on a roll, today!!!!!!!!!!!!!! TOWANDA, INDEED!!!!

Ox Drover

Thank you One step, I will k eep that VISION in my mind when I feel down and replay it again and again!

Well, the parole hearing is NOT OFFICIAL YET but the letters from the two men, the State senator in charge of the commission on the state’s prisons AND the HEAD of the state’s parole board are both going to put LETTERS INTO MY P SON’S PERMANENT PAROLE PACKET RECORDS so I have a feeling there is not a parole board member in the state who would give him parole after reading those letters, huh?????

Also, I still have the attorney I hired to SPEAK to the parole board directly and he is a well respected parole attorney who actually gets 80% of his clients out on parole, but he only picks ones he thinks are GOOD candidates for parole and he had TURNED down my son as a client 4 years before. He knows what a psychopath is and REFUSES TO WORK FOR ONE (how about that gang, a lawyer who won’t take money from a BAD GUY!) Anyway, he is WELL acquainted with the parole boarde and I think because he is FIGHTING my son’s parole he jwill be WELL listened to, especially with the letters in the file, so I think that God has allowed me to TRUMP whatever hand my P son has been bought by my egg donor for his parole hearing. I know she will have an attorney and so on, but I don’t see how she can trump the cards we have been dealt.

I won’t know FOR sure what he got until mid January 2011 when the final decision has to have been made, but could be as early as September of this Year when they make it. I do feel though that with the two letters from the politicans He will NOT get parole and I’m hoping for a 5 year ‘set off’ before he can go back and ask for another parole. (that’s the longest time the parole board can set him off before he is entitled to another hearing) He got 4 years last time. If he did not have any major infractions for this 4 years (and I have no way of knowing) he might actually have gotten a parole thisw time with the egg donor hiring an attorney to plead his case, and her offering to give him a place to live etc.

I really do believe though with the two top political dogs concerning prisons in Texas having letters against him in his PERMANENT FILE though there is most likely not a SNOW BALL’s Chance in hell he will get anything but a 5 year set off at least this time. Thank you Jesus!!!!!


On the original topic:

This new instrument doesn’t sound like much of a lie detector. Obviously it gives inconsistent results and can’t be relied on. It may end up telling as many lies as the people it’s supposed to be testing.

But what do they need a lie detector for anyway? This case is a no-brainer. This Dr. Semrau who’s suspected of “healthcare fraud” ought to be found Not Guilty as a matter of principle. Seriously, they CAN’T TELL whether or not he made an honest mistake without scanning his brain to find out? If that’s the case, then the codes and regulations he was trying to comply with must be so ambiguous that ANYONE might make the same mistake. Clearly there’s “reasonable doubt,” and on those grounds he deserves to be discharged.

Obviously the REAL criminals are the pencil-pushers who WROTE these rules in the first place that nobody can be sure of understanding! This whole blighted army of government bureaucrats is responsible for defrauding the public on a massive scale by making needless work (and profit) for still more predatory lawyers and bureaucrats to “interpret” and argue about it all. This happens in every field from income tax and health care to environmental regulations. Those are the people who should be indicted instead of this poor doctor. They should be brought into court to face charges: that “at some time on or about the twentieth or the twenty-first century they did knowingly, willfully, and with malice aforethought conspire to write diabolically complicated rules and regulations with intent to confuse and baffle the public, intimidate innocent citizens by placing them in jeopardy of wrongful prosecution, and extort money from the taxpayer in the sum of billions of dollars every year.” A further charge of High Treason could be added for “conspiracy to sabotage the national economy.” They should all be found guilty, taken out and shot. Then some of the people currently in need of a job could be hired to draft new and SIMPLE regulations that everybody can understand. All the money saved could be put toward something useful or that people actually want, whether it’s a grand project like colonizing the Moon (we’re LONG overdue with that) or more commonplace like manufacturing a new kind of bread that always falls butter side UP. And the mountains of paperwork saved could be used to plug that oil well that keeps leaking.

Ox Drover

Dear Redwald,

I second your suggestions, but then I am a RADICAL old biddy who just can’t seem to figure out why “in a democracy anything that works is politically undoable, and anything that is politically doable won’t work.” (Fred Reed, 2010) But the bean counters and pencil pushers would be out of work if we did that! LOL

Having tried for years to forget about the “coding” and just take care of the patients, I finally gave up and realized I had to work with the system whether I agreed with it or not! It does not make any sense, to me at least, but then I only have 6 1/2 years of college so maybe I’m not smart enough to understand. LOL

As bad as I would like to get on my soap box here with you and have a politicfal rally, I think someone else mentioned she was working for the “Tea Party” I guess we probably better let it rest!~ But actually I think a bunch of the people whho wrote those regulations are psychopaths, doing it just for the fun of watching the rest of us try to figure them out! LOL



breath of fresh air! I agree!!! something else worries me about lie detectors, I heard somewhere, I may have read it in an article that psychopaths are SO detached from feeling anything, and so devoid of guilt they are the only people who can get through a lie detector?


OMG! the banner at the top of the page is promoting a book with, ‘GET YOUR EX BACK NOW.’ dirty little tricks to…blah blah blah.

some of the banners are inappropriate, but this one takes the cake.


Sure it didn’t mean……get him ‘BACK’? as in evening the score?

(I didn’t see it)

kim frederick

No, but it still sounds like stalking, not taking no for an answer and being compulsive and underhanded…control freaking.

super chic

I read some of those “get him/her back” articles about 10 years ago when I wanted someone to “come back” Too bad they don’t start the e-books with a WARNING and a description of a N or a S before you read the book, some people might realize they don’t want the person back!!!

kim frederick

Aint that the truth SC!


naw EB – it was win him back by underhanded blah blah.

kim it is so good to see you.


I would rather win the lottery and see his face when he heard about it…

Ox Drover

ErinB, Just for “drill” today I got on intelius that search engine for people and put in my name, my P-son’s name, X DIL’s name and so on, and boy did I get my eyes opened to the amount of information out there and the connectivity of that information to my “circle” of family and friends. IN-TER-ESTING!!!! I didn’t pay for any of the reports, but got enough of an eye opener just with what came up for FREE that I almost choked on my own tongue!!!! The only “mistake” I saw was they had a “katherine” with my same last name as “related” to me, which is not true, but might be my son C’s step daughter “the devil child” if she used that name, her first name is Katherine though she goes by a diminuitive of it. So even that might not be mistake.

It gave every place I had lived in the last 30 years, at least the town, and probably would have given more than that if I had paid for the full report. I’m impressed with what is out there. What a stalker’s DREAM really! Give all your old addresses so they can go talk to your old neighbors and see if any of them know where you are living now.

Along with the google “street view” of your front door, and the aerial view of your house, it’s no problem anywhere for someone to stalk you from their own computer screen. Kind of spooky, if you ask me.

While I don’t really like the idea of being “on camera” when I am in a store or parking lot in town, at the same time it sure settles a lot of questions and “he said/she saids” like Van der sloot’s latest murder. I also think the taping of court sessions, prisoner interigations, cops arresting someone, etc. sort of puts the ONUS of truth and WHAT REALLY happened on trial as well. Though sometimes I think the LACK OF A VIDEO doesn’t mean someone is innocent!

I’ve been reading some interesting research by a memory expert who frequently testifies about how “false” memories can be generated and how UNRELIABLE “eye witness” testimony is. I agree about that one for sure. Once my egg donor and daddy were the first to arrive on a BAD multiple vehicle, multiple casualty car wreck. After they left the scene hours later, they COMPARED their stories just to see, and they DISAGREED on the number of cars, positions of cars, and color of cars….and several other things. I remember once when I worked in a convenience store and a guy attempted to rob me I TRIED HARD TO REMEMBER HIS FACE and afterwards I could NOT remember if he had facial hair or not, only that he was a white male. I wouldn’t have known him again if he had spit in my eye! The adrenaline rush we get in a situation as a witness, especially to something dramautic, keeps us from remembering it rationally or correctly.

Even the memories I have of the airplane crash are fragments, with big “swiss cheese holes” in the fabric of the memories. Sometimes I wonder which of them are true and which are not, or what I saw but never registered. Have they changed over the years as I have reviewed them.

Children, especially, are subject to having “lost memories” inserted into their minds with questioning, and there are multiple cases of “child molestation” which have later been proven FALSE (many tiimes after people have been convicted and put in prison for something thery didn’t do) I saw a case the other night where a BOTCHED case of child kidnapping was put on the father, DNA evidence was NOT tested, they even got the father to CONFESS, and later DNA evidence was tested, the REAL kidnapper/rapist was caujght and the INNOCENT FATHER went free to what was left of his life, along with his shattered marriage and shattered sanity and shattered reputation. He and his x wife sued and won 8 million bucks from the police department, but you know, 800 million dollars wouldn’t have paid for what the man went through! All I can say is THANK GOD that DNA can prove a person did or didn’t do a murder/rape SOMETIMES at least!

The man who did kill and rape the little girl was a “typical psychopath” who at least won’t go free to kill again in this life time now.

kim frederick

Me too, Hens, and hng up the phone when he called, because he surely would.


Lot’s out there huh?
You can start with knowing nothing but a name.
It helps ‘narrow’ it down the more you know…..
But not necessary.
Have you done
That seems to be a one stop shop…..including news articles, people search, intellius, Facebook, Linkedin, twitter, amazon shopping lists (ha!), death records/news, published court records, white pages (WITH phone numbers), birth announcements, even if you have signed an online guestbook for someones death or birth……yadayadayada…….
You can put together quite a profile on someone without knowing much to begin with.

THIS IS WHY I DO NOT PUT ANYTHING OUT THERE LIKE FACE BOOK!!!!!!! It’s ALL memorialized. It’s even worth it to pay the $2.00 a year for an unlisted number and get a po box.

I LOVE that site…..

Each time a person received mail in another location…..about a month later it shows up on intellius as another address location of where you’ve lived.

If you’ve co signed for someone on something….your forever linked to them on intellius and such.

If you don’t know anything about ‘a’ person… can go check out a family member….and sometimes it leads you to something.
It’s all about cross referencing.

The spath should be served next week with the extended order…..he’s gonna SHIT that I know where to find him…..
(I still have to laugh, because he always said he never knew how I knew about XX or YY or ZZ, and now with the internet…..lookout) I knew because he was stupid back then and always gave himself away and nothings changed.
I’m gonna double whammy him with a motion from family court and the TPO extension…..because he will sure hide, when he knows I know where he is. I only need to serve him once… get the orders.
Since Jr. isn’t graduating, spaths liable for another years Child support and medical, until jr’s 19.
and I’m gonna petition to have cs upped.

He should be supporting his kids……NOT drugs! I think a judge may see it the same huh?

Yeah……it can be very scarry on the web…..but very helpful also. Depends on what side your on.

There are ways to control what info is ‘out there’. Start with NOT putting things on the web for the world to see.
All the ‘networking’ sites….whether social or business…..BAD MOVES!!!!
How many jobs come to ‘you’ just because you have poofed yourself up on linkedin?

Ox Drover

I’m going to try the as well. I haven’t done searches like this online in, well 3 or 4 years ago when I was trying to find out about the trojan horse. I did fiind today though on Intellius that he has moved to another town. Interesting. Still not close to me though. Also found X DIL address, and even went back as far as my late FIL who would be 103 yrs old. He was listed, along with my MIL (he died in 1984) with several old addresses going back into the 1950s) Even found my late husband’s P sister who has probably been dead 8 or 10 years as well. No one has seen her since 1984 at her dad’s funeral where she was tossed out on her ear for making a ruckus, but she did call us in the middle of the night COLLECT in 1994, my husband refused the call though—I would have taken it just out of curosity, but he just hung up! He wouldn’t have peed on her if she was on fire! Her three daughters are just about as bad, maybe not Ps, but crazy as bessie buggs. Shall we say BAD life decisions. LOL

So anyway, as I start getting my ducks in a row in case I have to disappear again I’m sort of looking at ways to keep myself “invisible” and at the same time keep others in my cross hairs so to speak. AND to keep others from inadvertently giving me away. I think it is going to come down to no one, NO one, actually knowing where our actual residence is. I can keep this address (even if I have to sell the farm, I can keep an acre and the address as my “legal” address as long as I come back once in a while to vote, or vote absentee.)

Good luck on your CS for another year! And hey, good luck to your kid too, I hope he will stick with it and get his graduation!!!!


Like Matt once said….
There is only 2 times you should be in the paper……

Example…..people are thinking…..well what about that time I won the womans charity award? Or our soccer team took state, or I saved an old mans life with CPR?

Okay…….fine. SOunds innocent enough huh?

Now….if your a spath…..who coached teams to playoffs, ran youth sports yada’s…..
THEN…….you get busted transporting drugs…..

WELL>……here is NOW what the headline reads……


We all like to be recognized…..but it just makes us tooo easy to ‘locate’ and cross reference our hobbies and involvements.

Best to keep a low-pro.

Ox Drover

Well, turned up a bunch more stuff about myself on the web, BUT can’t do a diddly darn about what is already out there. BUT, the trick now, IF I have to disappear again is to CUT the paper trail off HERE at this address, which is really an easily do able thing. And not illegal at all. As long as I never put another utility in my name some where else, or open another bank account with another address than this one, and as long as I keep this address my “legal residence” (there’s no law says I have to sleep here 365 days a year!) then this is where I live, and so it will be darned hard to find my travel trailer out on the road won’t it. Especially if it is parked inside 5000 acres of national forest! No credit cards for me! LOL

Also means I won’t be able to order from with my credit card! BUMMER! That sort of piths me off that they sell a list of what I bought or even looked at there! Think I will take my business elsewhere —that ought to put them out of business!~ LOL

Yea, I am not enjoying what I am finding out there on the web, but maybe I can turn it toward my own benefit in the end. It is an ill wind that blows no one good!

Dearest Oxy, Very many congrats on your success in keeping your crim son behind bars for another 5 years at least! You are one inspiring and tenacious and wonderful woman!!
Largely due to your influence, and my new determination to speak the truth, and to “come out of the shadows”. I have put a picture of the 2 Grandkids I have never seen on my facebook page,{I got it from my grandsons FB}Under the pic, Ive written,” these are the 2 precious Grandkids Ive been forbidden to see, and in fact have never seen since they were born. This causes me a lot of grief”.
I also posted pics of my best portraits in oils,and noted,”the only reason I have these paintings is that my brother in England was storing them in his shed for 16 years, and only sent them back 6 monthsago. Every one of my paintings that I dd not rescue from my former home, was either destroyed by my daughter, or by my ex husband, who burned them in a bonfire in the back yard.”
If a family member sees this and thinks,”WOW!” we didnt know this! Im glad. Im SICK SICK SICK of lies, half truths, denials, and cover ups. for good or ill, I am now out of the shadows and into the light!
Our wonderful adopted kids came over saturday, and stayed one night. we had such a lovely 2 days together. Abbasm helped my husband sweep the back yard, and clear rubbish. Ive been cooking for days, and it was all eaten and appreciated! I fel so lucky and blessed with my new adult “kids”!
From now on, I hold my head up high, I live my life spath free, I am determined to move forward, and away from these sick adult kids of mine.
Congrats again Oxy, well done! You are truly an inspirtion to all of us!! Much Love, and {{HUGS!!}}, Mama gem.XXX Ps, Has the book arrived yet about the woman in South Africa?


OxD, you can order from via paypal, can’t you?

I typed in my own name and found all of the paintings that I’ve posted on artist sites! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is it “legal” to use a PO Box as a “legal” address, or must it be a physical address?

Crazy stuff……..some crazy stuff technology is.


Gemini, that’s awesome that you posted their pictures, but I’d edit the comment and take out the “grief” bit. If your FB page is accessed by a friend of a friend of a friend, the idea that you’re grieving over them might just toss some gas onto the spath fire.

{{{{HUGS}}}} Brightest blessings, Gem.

Dearest Buttons,
I appreciate your input re this situation but in my present determination to be truthful in everything, i will leave in the grief bit. The reason is,I DO feel still, unbelievable grief and heartche at what my 2nd spath daughter has put me through re her kids,if she DOES see it and is GLEEFUl about it, so what? God will get her in the end, I am convinced that these sick specimins of so called humanity never go ultimately unpunished. her karma will catch up with her sooner or later. As for my remar making hte sitaution worse, it CANT get any worse than it already is, so Uve nothing to lose. Thanks, Love, mama Gem.XXAlso, the 3 kids I do have access to,{but see around twice a year only,] may start to question why their Auntie C behaves this way to Granny.

Ox Drover

Where you get your mail is beside the point, I have a piece of ground where I actually have a house, plus the farm. There are three houses on the farm, plus a barn, a shed, and an aircraft hangar. If I ever must sell and run, I can always keep one of the houses or an acre of land and put a shed on it, or close in the shed that is already here and make that my “residence”—where I actually AM is beisde the point. I have friends who spend 99% of their time traveling in their RV or in their vacation homes, but their residence is where they LIVE legally, vote, register their vehicles etc. As long as I can’t be traced by a paper trail from HERE to where ever I am, I’m not hiding from the FBI after all, just from my P son and his convict friends. How deeply I have to hide though probably depends on how much money my egg donor gets to him either before she dies or after. I’ll just dynamite that bridge when I come to it. In them meantime, I’m just getting my ducks in a row, learning what I can, and getting prepared for whatever eventuality comes down the pike.

Dear Gemiini, sweetie I hear you girlfriend ((((Hugs)))))


Has anyone caught the Soledad interview with Wayne Williams, the Atlanta Child murderer? I caught her interview several times this weekend and notice how Williams will not answer her direct question, he constantly takes control of the interview and ignores questions she asks him. Acts as if his incarceration is a joke. To me, it’s the same ole same ole cat and mouse game. Williams acting smug as if he is better than Soledad (or everyone). He makes my skin crawl with his arrogance speaking volumes.


winning the lottery is probably the only thing that would “hurt” the P he he I would expose him entirely on the web, off the web,anywhere I could and have buckets of money to fall back on if he got dangerous….I always wondered why he went for me, I’m not wealthy, there was no money attached to my image….but money is power, and if I had more of it I would do something on a large scale to fight this….but he robbed me anyway, didnt seem to bother him it was my hard saved difficult to get cash. Looking back without the pheremone glasses on, he was so GREEDY and TIGHT and I never saw it clearly till now. It hurts so much.


Bulletproof I dont have ‘money’ but to him I was an option, a safe place, security, a place to land for awhile until I saw what he was, they can only hide that for so long. He knew all the while it was temporary, but convinced me it was for eternity. I have a nice little home a good vehicle a good job, I was lonely, vulnerable, kind, caring, just your all around perfect target. So I picked him up dusted him off, fixed some of his problems and gave him the opportunity to search for a better target his next go round – they are opportunist..if they dont have a pot to piss in they will grab whatever option is available at the time, and exploit that option until it is depleted then on to the next and the next..



My h-spath told me that money isn’t important to him (power is his high, being the one-in-charge, but failing to be fully responsible for his actions). He has no problem spending other people’s money; he can’t save a nickel. Money isn’t everything, but you need it in this world to get along (a practical reality), wanting to have a comfortable existence. I have never known anyone who does not understand money like he does. The things that my h-spath did to me (without a hint of remorse) gets to me – I try not to think about it all because I’ll get down again, spending too much of my time dwelling on his misdeeds, being totally p.o.’d that he is the way he is. I get where you’re coming from.

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