Corrupt and incompetent forensic psychologist

Stuart Greenberg, a forensic psychologist who wrote reports that often decided custody and sexual assault cases in the Seattle, Washington area, had been disciplined by the state, but managed to get the records sealed. He made a fortune while producing biased and unsubstantiated opinions. Greenberg was also a voyeur. Read this expose:

Seattle Times special report: Twisted ethics of an expert witness

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.

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This is terrible. I can’t even begin to imagine how many lives he ruined this way. How many parent/child relationships did he ruin or break? How many kids were hurt or how many people had their image as a good parent ruined because this guy had an agenda? Nobody will probably know for certain.

The main case involving Cathy Graden is truly despicable. Taking a child away from a loving mother. She must have felt like dying when she heard that. I wonder how many other parents felt that way because of this man. Not to mention what it did to the children. They must have been confused and scared as their future and family lives were thrown about by this man’s “findings”.

Forensic Psychologist would be such a fun job, I’m interested in it too. This guy brings a bad name to everyone in the field. I wonder if he set out to be this way from the start of his career, or if he became blinded later on by the money and power.

Just reading this story made my heart rate accelerate and almost feel like it was trying to jump out of my chest—I can only pray that there is a “hot spot in hell” for this monster and he’s roasting there right now.

I can only pray for those people whose lives this man ruined.

WOW! Wow wow wow wow wow! What a sicko! What a sick story. Disgusting, abusive sick creep. It is angering to the max…

This article was very hard for me to read. This is exactly the kind of emotional/psychological tactics used on me – where people were told that I was crazy and proof was that I acted normal b/c only a crazy person could act normal when they were crazy. Yet they believed my husband b/c he is so kind and gentle and genuine and worried about protecting the community from me.

Any surprise that I began to avoid people (b/c they attacked me on the street, as if what my husband characterized me to be was true). In time, I hid. When I first left him, I got my apartment and never went out except at night so people didn’t see me and I didn’t have to face their contempt. I was so sure that something about me was so wrong that others could see… but I never could figure out what was wrong with me (further proof of my crazyness, b/c my self reflection and interspection did not reveal my unworthiness.).

I nearly committed suicide, b/c as it was presented to me, I needed to protect the public from me, and esp protect my daughter from having someone like me for her mother.

It has taken YEARS to get past those controlling horrid messages. People condemn me for not getting over it just b/c I moved away and since he wasn’t in my face anymore, I should be just fine. Well. I wasn’t.

But. I am now. I now KNOW what was done and how. Which is why I say my best revenge on my husband is HIM, being himself. A life sentence he can’t escape.

My husband did this only to me, he did not have professional capacity to control others. My heart feels so crushed that other spaths have this court endorsed power over multiple lives, separating children from parents.

Katy ~ big ((((((HUGS)))))) to you!!! I am so glad that you are AWAY from him. Healing from such a relationshit takes a LONG time. It does help to understand what they are. That is why what Donna is doing with this site and with her efforts to EDUCATE people on the subject is so VERY important.

Others, who have not experienced these PD people, have no way of knowing what HELL it is to be under their control. Please don’t worry about what they think. They just don’t have a clue what you have been dealing with.


Katy-((((hugs))))-your post just broke my heart, I can’t stand it. It hurts me for how he made you feel that way. You are such a good person. I am SO glad you are getting past it. You did NOT deserve all those horrible things!

Dear Katy,

A big DITTO to what H2H says, worrying about what others think was my family mantra “what will the neighbors think?” NOT “what is the right thing to do?” but what other’s opinions are.

Well, you know I am at a point in my life now where you can count on ONE HAND the people whose opinions REALLY matter to me about me. If my neighbors believe the stories they’ve been told about me….that’s their problem not mine.

I really CARE about a few people that I truly love….and what they think of me, but for the rest of the world? Not gonna slash my throat or my wrists or lose much sleep over what they think of me. If they are talking about me they are leaving some other poor sap alone.

Fortunately I don’t have to go out into the world to make a living so that helps, but I’m learning to VALIDATE myself. FINALLY.

Katydid – I can relate with what you say. Try being gay in a world full of homophobes and ignorant rednecks that think it is a choice. My brother offered to shoot me to save the family the embarrassment of having a fag in the family..and he molested me most of my young life….I was so ashamed of who I was. I still suffer major guilt and shame..but all the abusers are out of my life now,,,
The truth be known people are not going around thinking about us, they are busy thinking about themselves,,,so I dont worry about what peeps think of me cause they prolly are not thinking of me at all…….it’s what we think of ourselves that matters.

You are all so kind. I WAS a basketcase. But now I’m pretty much back together the way I was before my spath.

But just b/c he didn’t hit me doesn’t mean the abuse wasn’t horrendous. I know what it is like to have people turn on me and not know why or what was said. It’s very mindfng.

People could say he wasn’t controlling me b/c I could leave. But he controlled the money, whether I got medical care, who I talked to, when I left, when I returned, what I bought, who my friend were, where I went. People say, well you had to have been weak. No. I was trusting. I was mindfkd. I was sabotaged. I was undermined. Emotional blackmail b/c I refused to give up being able to care for or have custody of my daughter. This wasn’t ONE person doing this, this was him AND his family. If I had my own family, if I wasn’t alone… then he probably could not have gotten away with so much. But I was ALONE in a town controlled by him, and small town folks stick up for a local, not for the outsider.

I was NOT weak. I was vulnerable. My honor and integrity used against me (did not tell people what was being done to me, but HE told THEM HIS poison and I never knew such a thing was being spoken.)

Do I care what people think of me? No. Didn’t then either, until my husband’s manipulations were being used by OTHERS to harm me and steal from me and harm my daughter.

I thought I had empathy and compassion before, but with you all here on LF? I have WAY more understanding than the normal public.

AND… b/c of my insights post spath, I am convinced the ONLY way through is by taking complete self responsibility. Which is almost impossible to even realize needs to be done when a person is in the midst of such mindboggling manipulative control. Ya have to understand the spath animal before ya truly conceive how much control you have to TAKE BACK and NEVER relinquish ever again.

your brother sounds like a spath to me. I’m so sorry that happened to you.
With a family like that, it’s no wonder you ran into another one.

I can see that the reason I ended up with a spath was because he reminded me of my spath brother, whom I loved very much. I didn’t know about spaths, I just knew that both my brother and spath seemed so charismatic and amazing yet really needed me to rescue them, so that they could become better people.

argh! you can’t rescue spaths.

Katy-that is the right way to see it and handle it. I am so glad that you are not going to let it get you down. You must have just felt like you were in prison and that makes me feel bad.

Sky He is, so is my Mom and so was my Dad, my sister was just fucked up like me, I think you know what she did to escape…I cant dwell on it tho….just make the best of whats left and whats good…

Just got email rejection from yet another hospital today. Also got a phone call from the one that rejected me last week. They want to phone interview me for another position that I applied for. Think I’ll get this one? There is a question if now I am being discriminated against for filing and appealing the unemployment. Part of the wages from my base period came from this same hospital-even though I was only there for a short time. Although they were not my most recent employer-the one who fired me, they still may have been notified that I filed by the unemployment commission. It really appears that the spaths are still winning-despite me winning the actual case and getting a good decision from the judge.

These people can’t seem to get it through their think heads that I never would have had to file for it in the first place, had it not been for their shitty references from a violation that didn’t exist to beging with.

Your brother had too much power. What a nightmare.

So sorry for all your suffering. I had gay friends who described the same when I was just out of high school so when I birthed my daughter, I really educated her on being caring to people based on who they are. It helped that she was around a lot of my gay friends when we lived in LA. Homophobe just doesn’t occur to her just as racism doesn’t either.

Just saying as rejecting as your homophobe brother was, it’s that very aspect of your personality which attracts me (and HUGE numbers of people with my same mindset) so much and I get to enjoy connection and relationship that is very intimate and close, albeit without the sex thing.

Take care and don’t assume!!!

Keep in mind the economy is a huge factor too. You can’t guess what’s in their minds until they actually give you a good indicator. Resentment is understandable but focus on taking the high road. Just as being cool, professional, and above it all to win your case, that same strategy will win over in other employment arenas.

I don’t want to take away from this article. It is so important. It’s a PERFECT example of what is done to people who have no idea what they are fighting or how to fight these massively powerful psychologically controlling spaths.

People keep calling spaths weak. Their character is weak but they can hold a great deal of power over the vulnerable. Remember the judge who was sending kids to that nightmare of “kids prison” only b/c he got a kickback, MONEY from the people who ran the facility?

And this guy, with his initials and expertise? To have such complete control over people’s destiny?

Katy-they do take quite a bit of power. That’s why I’m in the situation that I’m in.

I am thinking about the brother of Hens and something is crossing my mind. I wonder if my father is getting the ole gay vibe from me again and that’s why he’s being hateful. I remember when I got together with my spath, he was actually relieved that I was with a man-even though that man was unavailable and it’s making me sick. He and my mother did NOT want a gay daughter and I am wondering if he is putting that into this.

Hens-I just re-read your post about your brother. I am SO sorry that happened to you. I don’t understand how he can call you that horrible name after molesting you anyway. What does he think he qualifies as-the same name I think PLUS pedophile/pervert to top it off.

I really wish that people would quit saying that being gay is a choice. Do you really think that all of us would CHOOSE to be called names and discriminated against and treated badly? WTF? I don’t get that. Being gay is NOT an easy life to live so if I weren’t gay, why would I choose it? People are just ignorant. I was upset about my friend last night because I am SO afraid of her reaction when she finds out, and I know she’s gonna find out eventually. Apparently it’s not a choice because I went straight back to it after being spathed. I can’t control being attracted or not being attracted to anyone regardless of their gender. This started in the sixth grade, so it obviously ain’t changin.

The gay thing is hard for me to understand. While I am not at all interested in even thinking about gay sex, it’s just a fact that I have closer, more emotionally connected relationships with my gay friends than I do with straight, so I value those friendships more than all my other relationships. I think if a parent can’t love their kid b/c of the gay thing, there’s something extra wrong with the parent, narcissism or something.

Katy-thanks and they are both narcissists-her more than him but they are.

Lizzy, I’m gonna wear my skillet out on your head! BOINK!!! For reading people’s minds and being “so scared” about what someone else is gonna think!

You know, you have NO control over what others think or how they react to what you say, or what you think, so quit giving all your power to what someone else thinks.

We were talking on another thread about if you were ready now for a relationship, and a couple of people said they thought not—and you agreed—and I agree with that too. Get your own sheet in one sock before you start trying to put a relationship together. I can’t think of one person I know who has been a “mess” of emotions and got into a GOOD relationship and stayed there for long…most end up like I did, getting into a relationshit with someone I thought I knew who turned out to be a psychopath!

SLOW DOWN, girlfriend! Just take things s-l-o-w, REAL sloooooow! (((hugs)))

Oxy-now you don’t gotta go and BOINK me. I’m just talking from experience that some women, even if they’re your friends freak out when they find out you’re gay-it’s like they think it’s contagious and they’ll catch it or something. I had an issue with my best friend over it-she’s long over it now but when she first found out, it was three months after we shared a bed on vacation. It was totally platonic and I had no interest in her other than being my best friend. She felt deceived that I didn’t tell her one night on the trip because we were sharing secrets and we went to sleep holding each other-once again, nothing sexual.

You don’t gotta tell me that I’m not ready for a relationshit cuz I know that already. I had put my self on match.com-something that I thought I would never do, and when two girls emailed me, I chickened out. They make you pay to see the emails and I can’t afford it, but even if I could, I wouldn’t email them back. I’m a big chicken. I did have a moment last night over my friend but I was ok shortly after. I have to tell myself that I am not attracted to her even though I am. I will not ruin the friendship by anything that I do. You are funny-please put your skillet away LOL 🙂 I got rejected on another job today

Dear Lizzy, Okay, I’ll put the skillet away! LOL Just don’t be so down on yourself, you’re starting to sound like Henry did a couple of years ago and I about wore the bottom out of a big cast iron skillet thumping him on the haid for being so negative on himself.

He’s better now, but he’s had to take to wearing a hat to hide his flat head! I guess you could either go to wearing a nursing cap like in the old days, or a hat if you get to be a cop! LOL

Hey, you at least WON your unemployment case and that’s a BIG DEAL!!!!!! You did great on that, so when you get to thinking down thoughts, think about that! And hey, if she gets mad at you for telling her you are gay, and pushes away, she wasn’t much of a friend anyway, so you didn’t lose much.

I’m finally at a point in life I’m as “independent as a hog on ice” and if folks don’t like me like I am fark’em!

Oxy-apparently I need a t shirt that says REJECTION QUEEN on it in big fat neon letters. It can go with the other tshirt that says Lizzy Bennett…disappointing parents since 1972! My rejection queen shirt should also have a shiny tiara on it!!!

Hey, Lizzy, how about if you go back and re-read the Story about the “ugly duckling” who was really a swan! Okay, so your parents are arseholes, and they aren’t thrilled with you, but sounds to me like you are the one who has a right to be NOT THRILLED….I ain’t exactly thrilled with mine either…was NC for 40+ years til he died with the P sperm donor, and been NC with the egg donor for 2+ years so except for my adopted son, and some first cousins once removed I don’t have any family…but you know what, that is PERFECTLY OKAY. The “family” I had was a pretty miserable example of familial love—if this is love baby, I sure don’t want to see hate!

Your shirt should read “I survived in spite of my family, not because of them.” So give yourself a big TOWANDA!!!! for surviving.

Oxy-I’m a little sarcastic today–and snarky. I’m SNARCASTIC!!!

I am going to agree with your best friend. She was having a relationship with who you LED HER TO THINK about yourself. That wasn’t fair to her.

BUT, I do NOT think it emotionally responsbible or healthy to tell people we know casually about our most intimate secrets.

And on the THIRD hand, you are in the closet. If you were living out there (and yes I do get that’s hard) then your sexuality would be a non-issue with your neighbor. If she’s a homophobe, wouldn’t you rather know so you could steer away from her? Since you say she has gay friends, I don’t think she is homophobe. Therefore YOU being in the closet to her could blow up in your face b/c maybe like your best friend, she would feel deceived and wonder who you really are.

Just saying… being in the closet has pitfalls too.

Katy-I’m just a little bit in the closet. I am out to those who are closest to me but this friend isn’t real close yet. I will come out to anyone who asks but I don’t wear it like a badge or shout it out. For thing it could have an affect on future career and I don’t want that.

Ok-so my girl comes out the house and catches me smoking and gives me THE LOOK. I said I know–I’m disappointing you. She says “yes you are and I’m going to take them”. I told her she’d have to catch me first. She walks over and says c’mon, I asked you not to do that. Then she snatches my cigarettes, runs in the door and locks it. I called her and ask her what she was gonna do if I get more tomorrow, and she says she’s gonna take them too.

I went back and reread this story about this guy…..it was so disgusting the first time I read it through I had trouble actually reading it….and on top of everything else, the SOB is dead, so there’s no way he can go to prison or be held up to public ridicule for what he did.

It is so frustrating to see this kind of story and to have empathy for the victims…and realize there is probably nothing that can be done on this earth to rectify the damage this horrible man did. How many children suffered, how many parents? All needlessly. All for this man’s ego and I assume money as well.

Yeah Oxy,
It is such an example of spath given the power to play god. Sometimes I feel so overwhelmed by the evil that is perpetrated in this world. But then I remember, it was my burying my head in the sand that allowed evil to dominate in my life so I guess HIDING is not my answer!

Yes, All for ego. Isn’t that what it is for all spaths? They feed their ego? But in this case, others helped this spath DO this evil, he couldn’t have done it by himself. Thus ENABLERS are almost as toxic as the perpetrator.

Katy, I can say amen to that, and unfortunately, I’ve done my share and then some of enabling. Learning how NOT to do it any more. Call a spade a spade now, and cut the toxic ones out of my life. Let them sink or swim, but not hold on to my back any more.


I wholeheartedly agree about the enablers…whew!!! They make me just as sick as the predators.



What were you questioning with your ?


well I think alot of us were enablers for our spathz – so I must make you sick?

Hens-I wish you wouldn’t feel like that. You know I was an enabler with my exspath too and I think that most of us were, to some extent. Otherwise why would we stay with them for as long as we did.

I dont feel like THAT….was just questioning Louise’s comment above ( june 27th at 10:44pm )


NOOOO, I didn’t mean US as victims!!! You silly thing!!!! GEEZ. I meant the other people around the spath…their entourage that conceal their antics, etc. I surely was NOT talking about myself. My X spath had OTHER enablers all around him.


I was replying to Katy’s comment above about enablers.

oh thanx for the clarification – you mean their cronies that have not been duped yet…


YES, yes…that is what I mean! Thanks for understanding! 🙂

Or they’ve been duped, but they just haven’t figured it out yet!

they have lots of friends, usually all new friends but they do attract people ……they also collect friends as future options …but its only the ones they get intimate with that get duped because soon they get bored, they need constant stimulation and excitement, have to be on the go – the world is full of shallow bullies and ignorant assholes, they run in packs……and there are people happy with a quick f–k, they dont love like we do – we are rare,,,,, they are taking over the world….


Oh, so true. Mine attracts people like a magnet because it feels so exciting to be around him. What is that?? But the friendships are all so superficial. I don’t think my X spath had any “true” friends. How could he…they are all like him! We ARE rare…I am beginning to see that more and more. They really are taking over the world, Hens. Sure wish we could do something about it, but it is out of our hands.

yep, the more I encounter them, the more I’m convinced that they are not 1-4% of the world, WE are.

I dont trust anybody anymore….if somebody was serious about wanting to get to know me I would think they had a motive to exploit something out of me…i just dont have anything to offer anymore…just my big heart and I dont trust him either….

I have finally figured 1 thing out that we are doing wrong.
We have been finding people that we like and then getting to know them. Instead we should be getting to know people and then deciding if. we like them. This way the heart doesn’t get involved until after they have passed all the tests.

thats sounds good on paper…I will give it a try.


sky – if you can possibly figure out HOW we correct that let me know. I feel almost hardwired to liking then getting to know.

i think that’s why i like business so much, i have to do it the other way around – because of the size of the town i live in and the sector i work in I have to watch my back all the time, and maintain social decorum while doing it. it’s a cesspool of self serving groups. since the spath it is easier for me to question peoples’ motivation. i have one business friend who i have known for about 4 years, and have worked with on a project with for awhile. just post spath i was looking sideways at even him…but i got over that. now this guy is a GOOD guy, but he has a strategic side that i really appreciate. if i didn’t know he was such a good guy, i wouldn’t trust him – seeing the sort of strategy he is capable of.

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