By | March 1, 2012 73 Comments

Dead soldier’s photos on dating site

The headline on a dating website profile was “Military man searching for love.” The photo showed U.S. Army Lt. Peter Burks. The problem—Burks was killed in Iraq in 2007, and now his parents are suing and

Read: Vancouver-based PlentyofFish sued over ads with photos of dead U.S. soldier on

Here’s the ultimate irony: claims to conduct criminal and marital background checks on all of its members. Apparently, the checks aren’t very thorough.

Read: Lying, cheating and online dating on

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

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Ox Drover

I really don’t see ANY way that any internet dating site can prevent people from posting pictures of others as themselves…..unless they do a FULL back ground check of every person on the internet site, and the cost of that is prohibitive…but a “back ground check,” even a thorough one, is not going to show up every fraudster as a fraudster. Not all of them have criminal back grounds even though they have been involved in criminal activity.

I’m convinced that every internet dating site is nothing but a sewer for psychopaths to hide in and troll for victims. That is not to say that there are NO good people on an internet dating site….there are, but they BECOME VICTIMS OF THE FRAUDSTERS.

Oh, BTW Donna gave me permission to talk about her new book, RED FLAGS OF LOVE FRAUD 10 SIGNS YOU’RE DATING A SOCIOPATH….and I have been on pins and needles wanting to tell you guys how wonderful it is!

Donna makes the 10 red flags simple enough for ANYONE to understand, and I just can’t find the words to praise this book enough!!!!

Donna quotes the experts, Dr. Hare, Dr. Leedom, Patrick Carnes, and many many others, but she organizes the data so that any person that has a “6th grade education” can relate to and understand, but she also makes it where a person with a PhD would not feel talked down to.

I think this book is WHAT PEOPLE NEED BEFORE STARTING OR CONTINUING ANY RELATIONSHIP whatever that relationship is, if it is a love relationship, or a friend, or a business partner or a family member.

If people would heed the warnings that this book gives, then there is no end to the amount of suffering that would be prevented.

I have a large shelf of books on “how to recognize and deal with sociopaths” but this one is going to go to the TOP OF THE LIST of the BEST OF THE BEST! WELL DONE DONNA!!!!!


I have been contacted by several men on dating sites who claim to be soldiers in Alfghanistan, wanting to be pen pals or looking for love or whatever. This is an IMMEDIATE red flag to me. I would never fall for something like that, and I wish other women could be smart enough not to either. The red flags are there, if only people look for them. You usually don’t have to look very hard to see them.

Ox Drover

I agree with you Star!

Donna, I was so impressed with the amount of knowledge in this book, and especially that it was written so someone with a “6th grade education” could understand it, but yet, someone wiith a PhD would not feel talked down to. You hit it just RIGHT!

Plus, the organization of the of the information, and the recaps at the end of each chapter were just awesome. Your notes at the end were good too, showing this was not just “your opinion” about psychopaths but you had some research and “experts” behind you as well as personal experience. I think BOTH of those are very important.

I also think that those of us with years of experience under our belts in dealing with psychopaths will learn from it as well. I know I did. That’s why Im still here at LF after going on 5 years is because I learn new things each day or new ways of looking at old things. Than YOU Donna for all your work! BTW the editing was great on the book too.


LOL, Oxy, you said you agreed with me as if it was such an unusual and unbelievable thing. ha ha – saying this in a teasing tone. 🙂

Honestly, it’s not hard (at least for me) to pick out the frauds on a dating site. There is usually something that doesn’t add up – an “accent” in their writing style, talking about “falling in love with me” in an email or over the phone, or something amiss in their story or their tone. Sometimes I even get a slimy feeling after talking to them, like I have to detox. I don’t worry about spaths on dating sites because I can usually spot them. .

My biggest problem with online dating is that most of the guys I meet online are just needy, lonely, desperate, or just not very attractive to me. Or too young! I think the best way to date someone is to become friends first. But people on dating sites are looking for insta-relationship. That is not appealing to me. Also guys on dating sites have all been used by women for so many free dinners that they don’t even want to invite a woman to dinner. Well, if a guy won’t invite me on a date, how can we even get started? I think the whole premise of online dating is a catch 22. And yet, I still have many friends who have met the loves of their lives online. So it must just be me. I am SO very picky, and none of the guys I’ve met lately even approach my standards.

Ox Drover

Star no it was NOT meant in that way at all, in fact, I think here the last few months YOU HAVE STARTED TO SOUND SANE! LOL 😀

Well, I don’t do the on line dating thing even though the chance of me meeting someone out here in the boondocks is slim to none, but I have decided the on line dating thing is like you said losers and psychopaths and I’m not interested in either.

Raising our standards to the level of NO RED FLAGS seen flying is the only way to go. I’d rather live in a tent in peace than a mansion with stress and anger….

Donna’s new book, BTW is AWESOME!!!!! I am so glad she finally got it done and will be available for sale soon. It is the thing you would want to have a copy for yourself and an extra one to give to a friend who is in a bad relationship….it works too not only a love relationship but in any kind of relation-shiat! Friend, family, whatever.

I’m to the point in “looking for love” that the very first hint of a red flag and I’m gone, and most of the time when I meet guys (the few new ones I do meet) they are either 85 and walking with a walker or they are old drunks and losers looking for a home.


ha ha ha Oxy, you are not intending to crack me up but you are cracking me up. You just said that I used to be insane LOL! And I have only “started” to sound sane. Hopefully, one day I can graduate into the actual PROCESS of sounding sane. (Don’t worry – I’m not taking any offense – I’m just messin wit ya. lol)

I know there must be a better way than a dating site. And yet, I STILL know of many people who met their true loves on dating sites. *scratches head in disbelief* I don’t understand how, seeing the quality of men I’ve met there.

Ox Drover

Star when we first come here, every one of us is I believe “insane”—no really there is no medical term “insane” it is a layman’s term, but I think we all qualified for that term. Because we had been in a relationshiat of one kind or another with a psychopath, and of course there are LEVELS OF INSANE. LOL I was in the “babbling, slobbering, snot producing crying 24/7 couldn’t function, one thumb in my mouth and the other you know where, and playing switch” level….and it took a long time for me to even START TO SOUND SANE. LOL But I have said to others (besides you) don’t know if you read it or not, as they started to heal and “sound sane” that they were “sounding sane” and I meant it as a compliment really….BTW I started to “sound sane” a long time before I BECAME semi-sane. I don’t claim to be SANE ALL the time either. LOL Just from time to time I manage to pull myself up to the level of “sane” but sometimes I still get knocked off that perch! LOL (((hugs)))) It’s called LIFE.


Oxy, I understand what you said. I am just playing with you. (((hugs))) LOL I have taken no offense. I like to laugh at words sometimes.

Ox Drover

Star, Yea, I understand, me too. I’m doing laundry which is in a large “closet” off my office and so I am staying near it so I can hear when the washer or dryer quits so am on the blog in the meantime.

Went out for my constitutional walk this morning, but the 20 mph wind made it uncomfortable to be out for too long so went in the barn and straightened up some just to get some exercise. My leg I injured Jan 13th (Friday) is better but still very tender so if I step on an unlevel surface with it it SCREAMS, but I’ve been so inactive for so long that I have to get back and get out there and MOVE. TO SAY NOTHING OF THE 10 POUNDS I GAINED.

Gonna get up here in another load or two’s time and fix some great salsa chicken breast to go on top of a bed of brown rice. Son d doesn’t prefer rice but will eat it once in a while so tonight is MY night with Rice, I fixed him hamburgers last night (one of his favorites)


You just reminded me that I’m starving and need to go eat and go to the gym. I could easily sit here all day and write.

Thanks for the good debates this morning – uh – afternoon. Oxy, if you didn’t think I was totally insane before, I’m sure you must think so now. LOL


I met him on Plenty of fish.

Charming. Fascinating. Funny. Smart.

It didn’t take long.

A background search, license plate check, internet searches and lots of questions didn’t come up with anything.

But I did not know nor had any way of knowing his OTHER name. The one which would have yielded two murders and a suspected third. Two other wives and more.

Plenty of Fish. It seemed innocent enough at the time.
It is teeming with predators.
Thank goodness that one of them is about to get taken to task.

But, over the internet. And for free. Full of women.

What better hunting ground.

I am a long and far away from that time and place.

But I am glad to see that Plenty of Fish is going to have to deal with its population.

It isn’t innocent out there at all.
We know that now.

Best to all.


I belonged to Plenty of Fish for a few years. I dated a few guys from there – nothing that turned out to be serious. But I never met any predators. Is there anything in his profile description that in retrospect could have been a red flag? Do you know if he still has a profile up there? I’m curious if this is a profile I’d be drawn to or one I’d avoid.

Ox Drover

Yea, Star, I do take back your “sounding sane” since you are still internet dating—fishing in a sewer! (((Hugs)))


Ox, you read my post wrong. It said “belonged” as in past tense. I have deactivated my profiles from the sites. There was one that I couldn’t figure out how to do it. During that time, one managed to slip through and get my attention.

So….I really want to know…..who are all these people meeting the loves of their lives on dating sites? It seems to happen a lot. One of the managers in my office met a wonderful guy on They are now engaged. She is a high self-esteem person and has even written a book about relationships and self-esteem. I’m very curious how this happens for others.


not everyone who is “happily married” is actually happily married.
My parents – 50+ years. the things my mom told me tonight…

My sisters. Both are in the same state of denial I was in. Why? because they saw my mom’s state of denial and emulated it. They have both told me how much they value their marriages. Just like I valued mine… gag me with a spoon.

Star, I read once that depressed people have been tested and they have the best hold on reality of anyone. This was done with a double blind study. I think Oxy read the same book by a Dr. Fine?

Maybe your problem, Star is that you are a realist. You see the truth. Other people don’t. is that a bad thing? Which would you choose? I’d choose the truth. Lies just didn’t work for me.


Sky, that post seemed so cynical. 🙁 There ARE some people who are very happily married. I know many of them and have known them for years. I’m not saying their lives are perfect – they struggle in other areas.

Ox Drover

Star, I know there are a FEW people who met good folks on line and are happily paired up….what I was referring to was YOU still on line dating (or that’s the way I read your post that you were still on the on line dating services and at least “looking” on the profiles) That was what I said You were “insane” for doing! 🙂



That is why depressed people are depressed…they are realists and they see what is really going on. No fairy tales, etc. All the reality brings them down. I’ve always viewed people who are happy go lucky as that way because they don’t really know what’s going on…they are kind of in a fantasy world. Only my opinion. I agree with you. I would rather have the truth even if it means it gets me down.


Oxy, I’ve read that 1 out of 8 couples met online. That’s a very large percentage. I think the internet is a GREAT tool for meeting people IF you are careful and know what red flags look like. I stand by my statement. I know SEVERAL couples personally who have met online, are happy, and are grounded. I also mentioned that I have DEACTIVATED my profiles on the sites. It’s not because of predators – because I can usually pick those out. It is because I’m not in a space to date right now.

Dang, this site is depressing me today – all doom and gloom. I think I’ll go away for the weekend.


“Fishing in a sewer”….yep, that pretty much describes it; doesn’t it? “Online Dating”….just fishing in a sewer. The internet is FULL of psychopaths, the same way the bays are full of sharks out here…just swimming around trying to find something to eat….

After having met “IT” online, I have sworn off dating sites and I hope that all of you have as well. The chances of meeting anyone online, that will turn out just ‘oh so perfect’ are not very good at all. Probably less than winning the lottery.

There has not been ONE person that I have actually met online, on a dating site, that was ‘okay’, in every sense of the word. I think a person has a better time of meeting someone either at the grocery store or at church or just walking down the street!

I have sworn off ALL dating sites and I think Plenty of Fish is probably the biggest cesspool I have ran across! Before I stopped listing myself ‘online’, I met someone from Plenty of Fish and it was nice…we met uptown for a few drinks and to get to know one another…THIS MAN WAS A TRUE PREDATOR IN EVERY SENSE OF THE WORD.

I walked uptown, being it’s not that far from me, where we met. We had a couple of drinks and his ‘personality’ kept getting stranger and stranger, over the course of the ‘date’…I brushed it off and thought: “Well, you know, a lot of people are ‘strange’, we’ll cut him a little slack; hm?” So, I did cut him some slack.

Well, to make a long story short…the end of our date came, which I ended it after feeling strangeness and since I only lived like 3 blocks from where we had met, he offered to drop me off near my place…BIG HUGE MISTAKE: once he had me in his vehicle, he took me to a secluded place where he tried to forcefully rape me. He didn’t succeed because I know self defense and I left him sitting there, IN HIS CAR, with his TOOL in his hand, gasping for air and I ran and left….I never made a report but I did make a complaint to Plenty of Fish, for which nothing was ever done. No follow up; no return email, NOTHING. My question to Plenty of Fish was: “You allow these kinds of people on your site? Then you condone what has taken place?” There needs to be stricter controls on these dating sites, making it safer for people who continue to participate.

So, let MY LESSON be a LESSON to ANYONE that when you are dealing with online dating, you have NO CLUE who that person is that you are chatting with. People online can be anything or anyone they want to be…..It could be a mass murderer, a rapist, just any ugly old thing you could possibly imagine. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES of your safety. Trust me, I know. I have SINCE removed all of my profiles from online dating and do NOT participate.

IT IS A CESS POOL for psychopaths and socipaths and on these sites, they have a steady stream of supply….trust me: I KNOW FIRSTHAND. So, if anyone is thinking of online dating: just remember: your chances of finding Mr. or Ms. “RIGHT” online are slimmer than winning the lottery. I am not saying it doesn’t happen that someone can find love and companionship online, what I AM saying is that you are taking a HUGE RISK just by talking with them. Be a REALIST and see things the way they truly are…


Ox Drover

Star didn’t mean to doomm and gloomm you, just was teasing you mostly but didn’t realize that you had deactivated your profile. Actually, there probably ARE good people on the dating sites and a few of them probably match up…but there are sooooo many predators there and it is so difficult to tell over the internet who is who…look at what happened to One/Joy and many others here who met their predators on line.

Don’t go [email protected] We had a ball yesterday. Sure didn’t mean to depress you! (((hugs)))


Social reality is influenced by your attitude.

When a person has a depressive air about him or her, and lives from a negative-realistic mindset that there is no hope for pleasant surprises in the future, then it becomes a selffulfilling prophecy, where indeed either things get worse or at their best remain status quo. So their outlook becomes and remains the reality. Depression to me is not having a realistic mindset, but having a closed mindset towards the future, indeed without hope.

Once hope is felt again about the future, by starting little steps in the now, then a person will feel happier, and show this unconsciously. People who smile genuinely attract people and therefore opportunities. Yes, they will also attract spaths, but the majority of people still are not spaths. And the life of that person with a healthy dose of hope, will see their reality change for the better. And that too is a reality and a truth.

It has always been like that in my life: depression and life goes further down the drain, happy and hopeful and positive happenings come my way. I’ve experienced the depressed cycle last summer (and the onset of it the 2 years before that), and have been experiencing positive hopeful feedback since November. Life ain’t perfect or trouble free, but some issues are resolving themselves… and it mainly has to do with an altered attitude of mine, a hopeful one.

So, truth to me includes hope, groundedness, action, creativity (and thus fantasy), and wisdom. Groundedness does not mean digging a pit for yourself into the ground, but having your feet ON the ground, and being able to look at the sky in the hope to see the sun shine, only to have the clouds part and get a glimpse of sunrays.

The Tarot Major Arcana reflect this cycle in life: one starts out as a fool, believing anything is possible, taking risks, often being protected, but also making a fall. It ends with the world dancer who is in many ways happy go lucky, like the fool, except that they gained wisdom. Where the fool will enter a lion’s den, the world dancer will dance around them, but still dances.

Of course that’s just in general… Hoping for miracles is asking for too much – hoping that a spath will become a considerate partner with empathy and feelings is the perfect example of such a unrealistic hope. Hoping that the majority of profiles at internet dating sites are those of good people is another miracle.


Thanks, Oxy. I probably couldn’t leave the site at this point – it’s too much of a family. But, dang, the doom and gloom does get to me sometimes.

Darwinsmom, I love your post. I think it’s true that people who are depressed are often reacting to real situations that less sensitive people don’t see. But I don’t think that means that in order to be sane, you have to sentence yourself to a lifetime of depression. At least I hope not. If so, I will do my best to go insane. I’d rather be happy and at peace than just about anything else.

Ox Drover

Star, sometimes reality does SUCK! But there are also things out there that are also real and GOOD! Finding good things even when it is cloudy, over cast and gloomy is possible.

It is back to “which wolf you feed”—if we look only for the gloom and doom that is what we will see, but if we look for the good, we will see that!


And here are some good ground rules to protect yourself while internet dating.

1. NO LONG DISTANCE ROMANCES. This is non-negotiable. If someone writes me from another state or country, I don’t care HOW great they seem, I tell them that I don’t engage in long distance relationships, and to please feel free to look me up if they are ever in my town.

2. ALWAYS MEET IN A PUBLIC PLACE. Do not go to his house for dinner or invite him to your house unless you have gotten to know him and have a feel for him. A lot of guys will not want to take you out to dinner because they feel too many women use them for free dinners. Too bad, so sad. Meet them for coffee then.

3. LOOK FOR RED FLAGS. Red flags include any kind of lovebombing. A person should not talk about falling in love with you if they don’t know you. Other red flags are inconsistencies in their profile (they say they’re American but seem to have an accent, for instance); grandiosity; unbelievable stories (I wouldn’t trust anyone who said they worked for the CIA or is a Navy Seal); any indications that they might be married (do not wish to be contacted in the evenings or weekends, for instance); do not want you to have their phone number; they treat waitstaff or other people badly; they act clingy or possessive; defensiveness in response to questions you ask.

4. DO NOT GET TOO INVOLVED TOO QUICKLY. Always regard it as just a friendly meeting, making a new friend, or a casual adventure. NEVER think of them as the future love of your life. If you are too needy and want to get involved right away, YOU ARE NOT READY TO DATE.
A. Don’t get physical on the first few dates.
B. Wait at least a week between dates.
C. Do not email constantly between dates. Keep it casual.

5. OBSERVE HOW YOU FEEL AROUND THEM. Did you feel uplifted by the visit? Did it drain you? Did you feel guilty, confused, upset? All of these give you information about that person.

I think if you follow these rules, you will be okay, because I know there are some nice people out there. I mean, I was out there, and I’m not a predator.

Ox Drover

Star those rules should be in place NO MATTER HOW YOU MEET. I met my P X BF years ago at a living history event and I thought he was really cool, everyone seemed to like him and he was the life of the party…he did live 3 hours away, but with him and me both being retired that didn’t seem a big deal and we did have many mutual friends, and I met his family, knew his x wife, (sort of) and so on…but I saw the red flags and ignored them, got involved too quickly, so I violated #s 3 and 4—-


Probably I’m a little more streetsmart about men than most because of my days as a stripper. I forget about that. It gives me an edge I think.


Oxy, I violated my own rules when I met the sociopath. This is one of the reasons I failed with that one. If I’d gotten to know him better before I “fell” I would have seen the inconsistencies and stopped it before it started. But I was not aware of “lovebombing” back then, and I didn’t know anything really about sociopaths. I’m much better informed now. I slept with him on the third date (much too soon). And I knew he was married (thought he was separated, but separated is still married). I made a lot of mistakes and I have no one but myself to blame for that fiasco. That doesn’t excuse his lying and cheating. But it could have been preventable had I stuck to my rules.

BTW, I did NOT meet him on a dating site. He was part of my current reptile community. Thankfully, he has not shown his face in a few years.



I would not ever take the time to go and look to know if there is still a profile. At one time I knew he was on about 15 sites pursuing as many as 30 women at a time. Methodically.

I don’t care what you were in your last 25 lives! If you are dating online, you are taking risks. You are free to do so, but I won’t spend any time on the answer to your questions because you believe you are invincible. And I don’t.

Be careful.


it isn’t doom and gloom to like to be realistic. I lived in fantasy land for a looooong time.

Cordelia Fine wrote a book about how the brain deceives itself. Here is the quote from it:

“There is in fact a category of people who get unusually close to the truth about themselves and the world. Their self-perceptions are more balanced,they assign responsibility for success and failure more even-handedly, and their predictions for the future are more realistic. These people are living testimony to the dangers of self-knowledge. They are the clinically depressed.”

I acknowledge the power of positive thinking. It’s just better if I implement it by choice rather than as a tendency.

And acknowledging that most “happily married” couples aren’t “happily married” is helpful for me. It’s part of human nature to be flawed so if you put two flawed people together you’re bound to get twice as many flaws.
Each one brings their baggage to the marriage.

If you look at statistics that say 50% of marriages end in divorce, then consider that of the other 50%, 100% are not necessarily happy – many people stay married for other reasons.

Many people have no idea what happiness is!

I meet people who tell me they are happily married and then I witness behavior which clearly indicates that they are miserable: fighting, jealousy, vindictiveness, cruelty, sneaky and passive aggressive behavior. I see it all the time. Extrapolating from that, I think that perhaps the delusions are far more common than I had anticipated.


I honestly don’t how to respond to the last two posts. They both seem so cynical to me, but I respect everyone’s opinions and their personal experiences. I certainly don’t feel invincible. That’s what the rules are for – for protection.



I think those are good, sensible rules for any type of dating. Didn’t agree with them all until recently, but I do now.


I don’t think anyone here feels invincible.


My parents are a good example of a good marriage. Yup, the bicker and argue and get on each other’s nerves at times, but they are a realistic example of a good marriage and lifetime love. It’s impossible for me to disbelieve the possibility of good marriages. They’re not even the sole example in my life.


I breathed a sigh of relief when I read your post. I know I’m not crazy. I know many happy marriages and I know many basically happy people. This is not to say they don’t have their issues and blind spots. There are people here on LF who are very sane and also happy and have happy marriages.

Ox Drover

I know one or two truly HAPPY long term marriages and you can tell by the way they look at each other with LOVE IN THEIR EYES. My husband and I had that kind of marriage for 20 years….sigh, and boy would I love to have another relationship like that, and who knows, I may, but I’d rather remain single than to have a “bad or unhappy” marriage.

I felt “invincible” as well in the past….but it was definitely a DELUSION, and now I feel vulnerable, but I live CAUTIOUSLY, but not in TERROR. I’ve bumped up against a couple of people lately who are HIGH in P traits but they were not allowed to get emotionally close to me because I spotted them fairly soon. If you can keep a psychopath emotionally distant and financially distant chances are they aren’t going to be able to hurt you much if any. It is those that are emotionally or financially CLOSE that can and do hurt us.

Star’s list of dating dos and don’ts is a very good way to look at ANY new romantic relationship….and they are definitely CAUTIONARY.


I don’t think you’re crazy for believing happy marriages do exist. I simply think that they are more rare than common.

We sometimes get a glimpse behind the curtain of a marriage and what we see is very different from what was portrayed.

For some reason, people tend to want to tell me things. Everyone does this to me. Even strangers. I don’t know why. Out of the blue, the conversation turns into their personal problems and it takes less than 2 minutes sometimes.

Maybe it’s only the unhappy people who reach out to me, and that’s why my perspective is skewed. ?


I had put something in my last post but then took it out. I thought it was worth mentioning.

There are also a fair number of sociopaths in churches, in 12-step programs, in the military, and even here in my complex (sex offenders). So what should we do, just avoid all of these places altogether? I think it’s much more beneficial for me to know how to spot and protect myself from predators than to just avoid going to these places. Sociopaths are everywhere. You can’t just avoid life. I choose not to live my life in fear. But that doesn’t mean I don’t follow precautions (see list above). There is a REASON that I’ve never met a predator on a dating site. It is not because I am invincible or because I think I’m invincible. It’s because I take necessary precautions. If you take these precautions, you will greatly reduce the risk of dating a predator. But if you are still terrified of meeting them, then it’s best you just avoid that venue because your fear will probably draw them to you.

I’ve made a few good friends on dating sites – one that I am in regular contact with. And mostly my experiences have been positive. The ones that have been less than positive were good learning experiences for me. It is ONLY my experience and not meant to invalidate anyone else’s experience or their choices. Please take it as only that.


Well Group – I don’t know how rare it is but Mr. Milo and I have been married for 42 years.

Oxy, I’m not sure if you could see it in our eyes, because half the time I am glaring at him. LOL

While the internet was not around back then, we were pen pals first then met on a blind date. It didn’t hurt that he looked JUST LIKE Elvis.

I think marriage is about mutual trust and respect. We very seldom agree on the little, non-important things in life, but are always there for each other with the things that count. We had and still have the same morals and values. We put family first, always have and always will. We give each other the room and freedom to breathe. We both have a sense of humor.

I guess I can’t imagine life without him and I know he feels the same way. That is happieness.


The unhappiness scale does seem to be tipped to the cynical side. Maybe b/c who writes THAT hit song when they’re happy? How many books are written without pain/angst, problems, grief? Who seeks out advice to fix a happy relationship? Since I am an optimist, I do think there are lots more people out there with contented, satisfying marriages/relationships. Not happy all the time b/c emotions are never constant. But feeling respected, centered, being able to be there for their partner most of the time. I may have a relationship of one right now, but I will tell you, it’s a happy one. 🙂


OH. Can I meet your husband?

Elvis. Be still my beating heart. Ma told me when I was a baby, I would not go to sleep until I heard an Elvis song. I believe it b/c the tone of his voice still carries me into my happy place. (I ignore his personal life. He was an N jerk but at least not a pedophile/thief/Scam).

Ox Drover

Star I ABSOLUTELY AGREE there are predators in churches and 12 step programs, in prisons, in congress, in the senate and so on…but if you look at the places to meet potential romantic partners, I would say that my BOTTOM choice would be prisons.

In prison, the AVERAGE score of prisoners on PCL-R is 22, and 25% actually have a score of 30 or above and qualify by Dr. Hare’s standards as PSYCHOPATHS. So I would think prison would be a POOR CHOICE of places to look for love. But there ARE a few people who actually FIND JESUS in prison and reform. It happens.

Yet, people do just that, they have pen pal sites for prisoners and people start relationshits with prisoners and even marry someone on death row. I WOULDN’T DO THIS, but there are people who think this is okay to do.

Next on the BOTTOM UP list of places to meet a romantic partner would be someone on parole. There is only a 40% chance that a parolee will finish their parole before they commit another felony. Yet, people do meet parolees and date them (there are people here on LF who have done so) but I would not choose to look there for a relationship because I think the odds would be poor. Matt our great attorney did just that.

Next up would be Ex-convicts—even though he had completed his parole and was out and free in society…I would not feel confident to start a relationship with an ex convict. I think the chances are too poor.

The next place I would NOT look would be a 12-step program for drug or alcohol–now, I know there are some folks who have quit drugs and/or alcohol 20 or more years ago and are and have been sober as a judge….well maybe we better use another term than “judge” LOL 🙂 but you get the idea, and besides, there are many “dry drunks” which is what the 12 step programs call the “sober psychopaths”–they may not be drinking, but they are still toxic, just pretend not to be. LOL

Now we come to on line meet ups…ON LINE DATING….I would also not look here because people can “be” anyone they want to pretend to be, and get information about you/me. They can even use another name, be married, or have a criminal record and you not know it. Sure being “careful” is helpful in sorting them out, but look at One/Joy for example and the many other people on here who have met their P on line. YOU actually met yours on line, though not in a dating venue. He pretended to be getting a divorce etc. He wasn’t what he presented himself as.

I met mine in a mutual interest group and ASSUMED he was okay because we had mutual friends and so on….well he was just looking for another respectable wife to cheat on. I violated some of your “dating rules”. I got stung.

Where ever we meet someone we need to be cautious, but where we START looking or should I think is in our community with people that live near us, that have a verifiable history, and someone that we can become FRIENDS with over an extended period of time and GET TO KNOW them WELL under a variety of circumstances before we become emotionally or physically intimate with them.

I hope what I’m saying makes sense…it isn’t just to disagree with you that there are good people on line, because I know that there ARE good people on line, in dating sites, and in 12 step programs and even in prisons, but the PERCENTAGE I think is lower on the dating sites and the ability to vet them is more difficult I think too.


KatyDear ~ DETAILS, come on.

Ox Drover

We all posted over each other Katy and Milo, but you know, I’m not sure about elvis not being a pedophile, look how young Priscilla was when he moved her into his house.


Katy ~ Everyone LOVES my husband, good thing I’m not the jealous type. He really did look just like Elvis. Many times we would be eating in a restaurant and someone would come up and ask him if he was Elvis. He calls himself a “hunk of burning love” – puke

I tell him now Elvis is worm food – get over it.


Details? You have details for me? Pray tell!


Yeah Oxy, she was very young but he didn’t keep going for 14 yr old girls. So I didn’t see teenagers as a pattern for him. More like she was beautiful and as a bigtime mama’s boy, he was VERY immature so she was prolly emotionally older!


I love bad jokes and my worst one is my Elvis impersonation.

Me: I do a great Elvis impersonation.
Dupe: OH show me!
Me: Ok. (cross my arms over my chest and close my eyes. Southern Baptist coffin style.)
Dupe: Oh. not funny.
Me: Thank you (deep tone). Thank you very much.


Katy ~ Not my details, yours – are you holding out on us?




Well, I’ve got to go feed Elvis and Grand dinner now.

Take care

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