By | July 9, 2010 40 Comments

Dirty politician got off easy, feds try for longer sentence

Former Pennsylvania state senator Vincent J. Fumo is a classic sociopath. He brazenly flaunted the rules, used government employees as personal servants and ripped off charities. In March, 2009, he was found guilty of 137 counts of conspiracy, fraud, tax offenses and obstruction of justice.

Fumo could have gone to jail for 21 to 27 years. The judge sentenced him to four years and seven months.

Many were outraged, including Lovefraud. Yesterday, federal prosecutors appealed the ridiculously light sentence.

Read Feds seek longer Fumo sentence on

Posted in: Laws and courts

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Ox Drover

This is SO TYPICAL and piths me off so badly, the creeps and the “while collar” crooks and psychopaths get off “easy” while the 13 year old guy who tries to rob the liquor store using his finger in his pocket for a “gun” gets life.

I totally am upset that these guys who think they are so “special” get “special” treatment—maybe the judge hopes when HE GETS CAUGHT TAKING BRIBES, he will get an easy sentence. Uygh!!!!!! GRINDIING TEETH HERE!!!!


These people in Louisiana are like that big time. The politicians are corrupt, plus you have to worry about the judges here as well and some of the police. Our DA was involved in criminal activity and lost his re-election. We are kind of on a clean out spree though. Everyone here is tired of hundreds of years of this. The new mayor is cleaning house and so is the new police chief. Our last mayor was a joke-he was disordered. I can’t tell if he was S or P or combo of both.

super chic

This is some politics we can agree on!


In addition to them all being the worse crooks on the planet, everyone in Congress in both political parties don’t give a crap about us average Americans and what we want for this country. They should all be fired and replaced with new ones!

Ox Drover

Yea, it is politics we can all agree on! I think political office is a career that attracts Narcissists and people HIGH in P-traitss whether they are full-blown Ps or not. Some of them actually do a fairly good job, but in the end it IS all about them and any “good” they do is a side benefit. It is more about money and power and status.

E72, yea, I’m with you on that, I’m voting for NEW crooks come November, against anyone entrenched in office, so vote’m out! Unfortunately, too many people fail to register or to vote so as long as they allow this kind of thing to go on by failing to vote, we end up with the “government we deserve” even if it is not the one we want. “SO REGISTER AND GO VOTE! Or shut up yer b1atchin’!”


Politics is the worst for narcissists and socios.. next attorneys.. and many times, they go together.

We really need to vote them all out and begin again. The corruption and socios in Gov now has gotten outrageous and all they are doing is trying to take over everything and make the Gov bigger to house more narcissists and socios to tell the rest what to do and when to do it. We need to go back to our contitution. Our founders put in all sorts of catches to prevent this and this current administration is ignoring it all.


I agree with both ya’ll. We got two of them out in May when we voted in a new mayor and then he appointed a new police chief. I definitely plan on going to vote all the current ones out in November. I am also watching closely the races in California because I would do anything to see Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi out on their miserable narcissistic asses. The only thing that would make that more exciting is if they would enact legislations that would no longer allow Congress to have government retirement benefits for the rest of their lives-even if they go on to another career.


John Edward’s comes to mind when you say dirty politician. He got rich sueing doctor’s and hospitals ..he’s just an ambulance chasin con man with nice hair…


Hens-and look what he did to his wife-cheated while she as suffering from cancer. He reminds me a little of my ex. A*** said that his wife hardly worked at all and always made her out to be very lazy. I found out after he broke up with me that the reason she didn’t work much was that she had back surgery and then had a stroke afterwards. He was getting together with me and beginning his con with me and she was trying to get better from that-HEINOUS!!!

Ox Drover

Yea, look at how many governors have been “outed” lately, and Bloggo is being tried soon, but Fumo got a wrist slap, they dooooo take care of each other don’t they!?

Edwards is such a pathetic creep, and his wife, I think has been a lady through all of this. I wish she would find her way here to LF, she sure as heck has been FRAUDED. I feel sorry for the baby he and the bimbo had….what parents she has.

E72, you know, your finding out about your X’s wife having back problems, etc. She may not be the b1atch you have been led to believe and you know, I think she has a right to be upset and him and you, and the things he said about her being such a b1atch etc. are probably a bunch of lies, like everything else out of his mouth, but you are NOT an EVIL B1ATCH, you and the wife are both his dupes. You are the more fortunate one thougth, as you are away from him, and unfortunately for HER she is still with him.

Or, who knows, she may be a b1atch, as much as he is. Probably you will never know the entire truth of the matter, but I DO know this much, if he will cheat on her, he would have/did cheat on you, and if he has cheated on her multiple times in the past, he will cheat on her again in the future (probably already).

E72, you do not deserve a cheater, you deserve a descent man who will treat you well. Accepting anything less than what we deserve in a companion does nothing but debase us. Because we have been previously debased and devalued, though, it makes us more prone to accepting someone who is “flawed” or “unavailable”—but NO more I can tell you that! I am not going to “settle” for being debased or devalued by ANYone under any circumstances and continue any kind of a relationship with them.

NO LIES or LIARS, no one who is hateful or nasty or using or abusing or dishonest. I deserve better and I will not settle for less!

I’m proud of you E72, you have made great strides since you came here, sweetie–and you are identifying the stressors and the triggers, and now you can fix those things because you know you don’t have to believe the LIES any more! You can VALIDATE THE TRUTH YOURSELF!!!! TOWANDA BABY!!!!!


double ditto on Ox’s post – erin72 is coming out of da fog.~!


hens – we all know its ALL about the hair 😉


Hey Onestep how’s the new job going?


hens – i start on monday. i wanted to get a bunch of stuff done, and need shoes (yet again) and clothes, and i wanted to get out to some good air…

so i rented a car to go out to the land for a couple of days – and before i went i put my back out really badly – arrrrrrrrrrrghhghhhhhhhhh.


stoned on painkillers and muscle relaxants and can barely move……
’cause there just isn’t enough shit to contend with. end of official whine.

FK fk fk.

Ox Drover

Dear Onestep,

BREATHE, breathe….. cuss….breathe….cusss…..breathe….. (((hugs))))


Oxy-I appreciate what you said and I believe it is true that he didn’t deserve me and I don’t deserve what he did or his treatment. I felt bad when I found out about the wife having a stroke and all but that’s BEFORE she kept calling me and threatening me and having her friends threaten me to the point where I had to change my phone number a second time. She had a part with him in my losing my job and she ran me out of another one. She couldn’t leave the issue alone even after I apologized and admitted to her my wrongness in what happened. She cuddled up to me by phone to try to be my friend because she wanted me to testify in her divorce case. She was all acting like it was us against him. THen when he discarded me she began being horribly mean and nasty and saying hateful things and threatening me. She promised she was “going to take me down”! I’m sorry but I DO think she is a B**** even though I pity her. She was the one who took him back after 4 times him doing this. I DON’T appreciate anyone threatening me-even though I did something wrong. She is the type who will try to destroy me the moment she finds out we’re in the same building together-even if it makes her look bad. I came to this job to start over and get my life together. She already ran me out of my prior nursing job and then trashed my reputation. If she does anything now at this job, it will look like she followed me there to do harm and she will look like the crazy one. I feel sorry for her but she deserves what she gets!!!
He once told me that NO ONE should get on her bad side because she is very smart and can be a major “BITCH FROM HELL when she wants to be”. I won’t go into details but he was accurate.

One reason I think she came to this job was to ATTEMPT to keep a closer eye on him. I think she figured that he managed to cheat when she was across town. Our hospital and his share docs and they all know each other. She is also friends with many of our docs and their wives. These guys all know he’s a cheater but they look past it cuz many of them are too. It’s sort of like a club. Our hospital is three blocks from his but his office is across the street from our hospital.
I don’t think there is ANYTHING she can do to keep him from cheating again. He probably already is. If he isn’t, he will wait until he earns her trust back and then do again. That’s what happened in our relationship. As for as I’m concerned, they deserve each other so much and an enormous thank you to GOD that I am no longer involved! I am so above that and on to better things for my life!!!


oxy – couldn’t i just kill something???????



onesteppers – SIMMER – Chill and get that attitude ajusted before monday cause you have to be at your best behavior monday – please dont take any bad emotions to work with you…big hug to you good nite ev1


Go here, if you want to see a real sociopath.. and watch it until the end.. and listen and watch carefully

Ox Drover

One step, nah, just do like Henry said and CHILL out. I used to get an abscessed tooth with every jjob change! I swear it happened 4-5 times in a row on the day I was supposed to turn up for my first day at the new job!

Stress (and change like a new job is stressful) always seems to kick in with even positive changes, but just chill and think good thoughts and relax until Monday! Good luck and you will do fine! (((Hugs))))


no, killing something WOULD make me feel MUCH better.

hens – you know how scared i am – that my mind might not work well enough since the chemical injuries and the ptsd; now i have to contend with not being able to sit. i am spending a lot of time flat on my back. and i have never known pain killers and muscle relaxants to increase intelligence – just the need for naps. how i am going to do this, i have no idea. i need a cane.

once again, just when i thought things couldn’t be more effing absurd…I AM PROVEN IRREFUTABLY FREAKING WRONG!!


I’ve been a resident of many States, and I have never, ever, EVER witnessed a politician that had the best interests of the citizens at the forefront.

The other ugly PA scandal involved Juvenile Judges taking kickbacks for sentencing juveniles to serve time in private detention centers. WHAT DAMAGE has been done to these kids who were not even eligible to “serve time” for their mistakes??? Meanwhile, the parents/guardians of these kids were required to pay 3k per month of confinement while the Justices went to their cocktail parties, accepted cash for their erroneous sentencing, and the families of these kids are in emotional and financial ruin. These robes should have been lined up behind the Courthouse and shot for their sins and crimes – yet, they received light sentencing at country club facilities.

Over the course of my lifetime, I’ve come to understand that there is no such thing as Justice, particularly with regard to public figures and politicians. I don’t know if I’ve become so enraged that I just put it all aside, or whether I’ve become resigned to this fact and accept it, blindly. Hearkening back to my own experiences in Family Court, it all seems like a well-orchestrated magic show, and nothing is ever accomplished and “accountability” is just another word in the dictionary that has become archaic.

This article definitely makes me snarl, hiss, and spit! 😀


Taking it from the sources …Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely …

Literal meaning.


Lord Acton. This arose as a quotation by John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton, first Baron Acton (1834”“1902). The historian and moralist, who was otherwise known simply as Lord Acton, expressed this opinion in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton in 1887:

“Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.”

Another English politician with no shortage of names – William Pitt, the Elder, The Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister from 1766 to 1778, is sometimes wrongly attributed as the source. He did say something similar, in a speech to the UK House of Lords in 1770:

“Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it”.


Buttons, there is justice when people get off their lazy butts and read their Bibles and stop just attending church to hear the sermons of men/women preach. It is everyone’s responsibility to read the text of their religious doctrine, not have someone else’s opinion told of what is written. You are then suppose to debate what is written. You are suppose to challenge those that are preaching. Period.

The reason all this craziness still rampantly exists in our society is everyone buys into they only need to study or cheat their way through the college/universities of choice to get that degree … then they are finished with having to read … so they opt to stay lazy and listless as they allow others to preach to them from all the anti-social voices our society has to offer and of course can’t figure out (until it’s too late) that there is/has always been hidden agendas of power controlling your every thought …


Love, the above thread.. it appears more and more are waking up..


I am a broken woman who is on her last breath to fight. I am so distraught so I am here writing to you because I have no one else to talk to.

I met a charming, silver tongued sociopath 17 years ago. Sociopath, at least I now know the name of what or who he is now. He fit all the traits to a tee.
He swept me off my feet and convinced me to marry him. Before him, I had a career, a life, and friends. But soon all that changed when I found out that I was pregnant with our first child. He was overjoyed but let me know right away that no mother of his children would be a “working mom”. He immediately told me I needed to stay home and prepare for the birth of our child. At first it seemed like he was just overly concerned about me, I was actually flattered at his requests that later turned into demands. Those demands soon turned to absolute control of everything, where I went, who I saw. He began to have episodes of what he called “venting”. He would come home from work and if the house wasn’t clean or dinner wasn’t prepared he would “blow up”. He would start by telling me that he deserved to come home to a clean house, laundry done, and dinner on the table. After all I had nothing to do all day but take care of these things. When he was angry, he would say things like how he passed up on so many wonderful women he could have been with to be with me and that he wasn’t planning to spend the rest of his life with someone who didn’t appreciate him. I would always be shocked and devastated by his tone and comments. I would say to myself that this was not right, that this felt like abuse. However, I didn’t dare say this to him. He wouldn’t stop at that, he would start in on how he no longer found me attractive during my pregnancy weight gain. I would break down and cry. I would tell him I was sorry that I had done these things to make him unhappy. He always seemed so pleased to see me break down. He would always leave the house and me in tears. Sometimes he wouldn’t return until the next day. When he would return he would act as if he were going to leave and I would just break down, it was pathetic and only then would tell me that he wouldn’t leave and how I shouldn’t question him. I guess it was his way of apologizing. Only when I would tell him how sorry I was would he say he was also sorry. He would say that this was his “venting” and that if he couldn’t vent he would have a heart attack and die. He would tell me that having an aneurism ran in his family and that his father and his father’s father died both this way at young ages. He would say things like he wouldn’t want to put me through his dying, leaving me alone to raise our child. I needed to know that he needed to vent or he might die. Then somehow he would turn everything around as if it were my entire fault. After all, he was now the only one that was the “bread winner” of our family and that I needed to appreciate all the pressures he faced bearing such responsibilities. With all this being said I would swallow any words that I thought of ever saying. I was pregnant, now living in a town where I knew no one and lived about 20 miles from another house. I convinced myself that somehow if I tried harder to be a better wife that things would get better. Soon my husband asked me to convince my family to give us money to start a business and additional funds to purchase our first home. He decided that doing all this in the state that my family lived in would take us closer to my family which he felt would make me happy, and that they could help us. My father agreed to help. Shortly before we were to close on the house my husband announced to me that he was facing IRS issues and that in order for us to survive this we needed to quickly get a divorce while he worked things out. This would mean that the house and business would go in my name only. He also asked me to keep this a secret from both my family and his. I felt I had to agree with whatever he said. What could I do? So with reluctance and sadness, I signed the divorce papers. This later turned out to be the biggest mistake of my life. Soon my husband was taking long business trips all during my pregnancy. He would turn off both his cell phone and even the phone in his hotel room saying he needed his sleep and didn’t want to be disturbed. Then the calls began from an assortment of women. It was always the same; they would call the house looking for him. When I would ask to take a message they would ask who I was. When I identified myself as his wife they often hung up. Other times they wouldn’t hang up but would make such comments as, “he didn’t mention a wife.” I would confront him about this and he would always deny everything. This would always trigger “venting” and him telling me how I was insecure and that I needed psychological help, from that point the vicious venting cycle would continue until again I would break down and cry. I would cry so hard and for so long that my head would ache so bad that I thought I would die. I didn’t die but often felt as if I would. One day he returned from a trip and I had unpacked his suitcase to find a pair of worn women’s underwear. I brought them to him and he immediately blamed it as a prank from one of the guys he had seen during his trip and then would turn things around as if this were my fault. He would point out my in securities and would drive me to tears. He would tell me that I had issues and baggage that I was obviously carrying from a bad childhood. He would then begin to attack my family and turn things in such a light that he was practically doing me a favor to be with me. He would then suggest that now he was only with me because I was pregnant with his child. If he had known that I would be such a burden to him in the beginning he would never had considered having a child with me. I grew increasingly depressed. I had no friends, as any I made he put an end to for one reason or another. The only interaction I ever had with anyone was at his own arrangement. I soon came to understand that he was only ever “friends” with people who could benefit him in some way. He would invite people over and expect me cook such impressive dinners and plan events to include them for what he explained to me would fund our future. Mostly these people were wealthy or had connections in some way that he felt would benefit him. However, in the end, if wasn’t benefiting in some way, he would end the friendships if they didn’t materialize into whatever he expected. Many times these friends were either much younger than us or single. It added to my worries as my husband would often go out or on road trips without me saying that I needed to stay home because I was pregnant. Many times there were other single women that were included who would blatantly flirt with my husband right in front of me and would act as if they had some knowledge of our relationship and treated me in such a way to make me feel as if they understood him in a way I could not. If I ever questioned him about any of these people or complained it would always upset him and drive him into a venting episode. Once, I became so distraught that I found out on one of his business trips that he was going to have dinner at a certain restaurant with another man. He told me this to make sure that I didn’t try and call him that evening because he would not be available to take any calls because this was an important meeting and didn’t want to be disturbed. I was as distraught as I was just sure that he was seeing someone else that I boldly called the restaurant and convinced the manager to find my husband (which was not hard to do as he stood out in a crowd). I told the manager that I wanted to surprise him and his dinner guests with a round of drinks on me and would provide a credit card to him along with a generous tip. The manager was all too eager to find my husband. As soon as he located someone who fit my husband’s description he returned to the phone to get the order. Of course I gave him the card number and asked how many were in the party. He confirmed that it was my husband and a woman. I asked the manager to send the drinks over and let both of them know that these were from his wife. Shortly, after I hung up my husband called. He was angry and said that I had embarrassed him that he was waiting to meet with the gentleman he was to have his meeting with and the woman that he was with was a friend of the man he was to meet with. He again turned it all around and brought me to tears on the phone. Once again, I was the one apologizing, begging for his forgiveness. He told me that I was crazy. I began to think that perhaps I was. Things continued to go downhill. Even with his family. Apparently he had borrowed a large sum of money from his mother long before I was ever in the picture and she and his whole family would treat me horribly justifying their actions by stating that our home, business everything was because of money they had given him. I knew this wasn’t true. However, he would never allow me to defend myself to them and told me that I could never tell them that all the money had come from my father. I also found out that he had borrowed money from others as well and had not paid them back. So I was just miserable. I felt so alone. It was a very difficult pregnancy. I always felt alone, my husband would never even come with me to any of my appointments or Lamaze classes. He was always busy or playing golf with people that he said would somehow benefit him with his business. We didn’t have insurance because he said we couldn’t afford it, he said that the business was not making any money. However, he always had a roll of 100 dollar bills in his pocket. He would always say that this was for show to the people he needed to impress which was how he was going to create a business for us to live. Whenever any bills came in for the business or if taxes were due he would pass this on to my family and tell them that there was no money in which to pay for them. Since everything was either in my name or my father’s credit my dad always felt obligated to pay the debt. This created such a rift between me and my family. My father began to ask my husband about the books. My husband would become enraged and take it out on me. I didn’t know what to do. I became so stressed out. I didn’t have anyone to talk to, no friends, I couldn’t tell my family. I was so ashamed. And my husband’s “venting” became worse. I cried so hard one night that in the morning when I woke and looked at my face and it was so red and swollen. The left side of my face didn’t look right nor did it feel right. My face was numb, I was uncontrollably drooling and my speech was slurred. Something was wrong. I woke my husband. I was panicked. He told me that it was my own fault for being so ridiculous and crying so hard. He told me to get dressed and drive him to the airport for a planned business trip, and that if I was that concerned I was a big girl and that I could drive myself to the doctor. I remember continuing to cry and begging him not to leave. He told me that he needed to go on this trip; he scolded me saying that this is how he pays our bills and how he would be able to pay for my hospital bill to have the baby. So, after I had dropped him off. I went to the doctor to find out that I had “bells palsy”. They said that stress could have brought it on but no one could really be sure. The doctor told me that my blood pressure was out of control and that I needed to take it easy until the baby came. I was two months away and no one could possibly be aware of the sadness and stress that I was feeling. I no longer recognized myself when I looked in the mirror. I had become a shell of my former self. I tried again to be a better wife. I tried to make sure that everything was just as he wanted when he would return from his trips. But to no avail things would always be the same. Sure, there were moments of happiness. I would hang on to these moments. If you could believe it I still loved this man with all my heart and hoped when things were going well that this was the break I had prayed for. This was the thing that would turn us around. But something would always happen and again, I would always find myself crying and begging. I had become sad and pathetic to be around. Finally the day came for the birth of our first child. I will never forget it. I was not due for another 3 weeks but my water broke and I had to get to the hospital. My husband initially came but when the hospital attendants told him that they were going to try and stop the contractions. That it would still be too soon for me to deliver. He decided that he would wait it out on the golf course. He told them it was already scheduled and they could call him if anything changed. I remember the look on the nurse’s face. I remember the tears whelping up in my eyes. But I didn’t say a word. I just kept my mouth shut and closed my eyes and drifted off, zoning to escape the pain and sadness. Later I remember how they weren’t able to stop my contractions and that my husband only showed up right at the moment the baby was taken by c-section. I remember how he came up beside me and told me what a wonderful job I had done and how much he loved me and everything would be perfect from now on. I remember how I believed him and wanted that all to be true. However, that would not be. After the birth of my daughter it was discovered through a negative pap smear that I had stage 3 cancerous growths on my cervix. Of course we still didn’t have insurance and my husband told me to work the state system and apply for free health care. After all, I was a single mom and didn’t make anything. I reluctantly did everything asked of me. I felt humiliated and sad. I was put through 7 leap procedures, all done without him beside me. I was on my own. His excuse was that he didn’t deal well with any of this. I was scared and felt so alone. He was always away on a trip or golfing. During the last procedure, the doctor was unable to stop the bleeding. I had to be admitted to the hospital where tests were run. This is how I found out that I was pregnant with our second child. I almost collapsed when the nurse broke the news to me. At first I thought the baby was possibly hurt because of all the procedures that had been done. However, they did an ultrasound and confirmed that the baby was unharmed. Then I was overwhelmed with the thought of going through another pregnancy recalling all the difficulties I faced alone during my first. Of course my husband was thrilled. He told me that I was fulfilling all his wishes of family. I was happy to be blessed with another baby but felt sad at the same time. It is difficult to understand if you couldn’t put yourself in my shoes. Again, I faced all the same issues with his venting, his family, my insecurities and my sadness. Again, I went through another pregnancy alone without the support I felt I needed. After my second child was born my days were consumed with raising two small babies. Our business supposedly continued to fail; at least that is what my husband kept telling my family so not to give them a single penny. I endured ridicule from my husband’s family at my inabilities to contribute financially because they saw that I stayed home with my children and didn’t work. Again, I was told to keep quiet about the money that my family continued to give. My husband insisted that we always go to his family’s home during the holidays as if my family did not exist. I had to endure snide remarks and sometimes blow ups from his mother and sister during our visits. I endured my husband’s repeated infidelities that I was never able to concretely prove. I endured his venting that had escalated to suggestions he made of killing me, and that he would get away with it as no one would ever find my body. He often made jokes about Scott Peterson who was convicted of killing his pregnant wife. Her body was found in the ocean. He would often joke saying he was going to take me for a boat ride seeming to enjoy the rise he would get out of my reaction. I became so distraught. My husband of course would always apologize. He would tell me that I and the kids were his world and that everything he did was for us. He would write me beautiful cards and sometimes letters professing his love. I wanted to believe but over time, I just felt numb to his words. I really tried hard to make our marriage work. However, I had no access to the business, the bank accounts or really anything. Whenever I wanted anything he would tell me that I needed to come to him with a list and why I needed anything. It was so humiliating. So I tried to get creative and find my own ways to make spending money on ebay. I successfully sold several items and soon had a small enterprising business. It wasn’t allot but with all the money I made I took the kids on many trips. Trips that he would never come on saying that he was busy with work. I even made enough to purchase a forclosed timeshare that was close to our house that the kids I would use to go swimming at. I really tried to make things work. I thought maybe we could be happy.
Then came the day that my father’s health rapidly deteriorated to lung cancer. Within 30 days he was moved to hospice. He called me to come. I remember asking my husband to care for our young daughters so I could go and be by my father’s side, he refused saying that he had an important golf game. So I loaded up the children and drove to where my father was 2 hours away. I will never forget seeing him for the last time, lying in that hospital bed; he was dying right before my eyes. He looked so frail and sad. He was holding all the bills in his hands that were due because of the business my husband had created. He was so concerned about what would happen to my mother. He was so afraid that my husband would simply walk away from all the debt that was created and leave my mother in financial ruin. I was filled with grief and yet couldn’t bring myself to say a word to him. I was so ashamed. I felt that this was my entire fault. I just kept salient and told him that I was going to get the kids situated with my mother and then I would be back. I called my husband crying. I told him we needed to make this right that we needed to take all this debt over. I asked him to come down and be by my side through this. My husband became enraged, he told me that I was just as responsible for the debt and that it was I who convinced my father to give us the money. He said that my father was a grown man and that he gave us that money without a gun held to his head and that if he didn’t have it to give he shouldn’t have given it in the first place. He then hung up the phone. I was crying once again. I never got a chance to say goodbye to my dad. He had a secure right after I left. I returned to the hospital that night and lay in the bed next to him hearing his labored breathing until he took his last breath. I called my husband and told him that my father had passed away. I told him that I couldn’t deal with all this by myself that he needed to come down and help me. He refused. He left me with my children to deal with everything. He showed up the day of the funeral with a well written poem about my dad and proceeded to act as if he were grief struck. He managed to charm everyone. Everyone that is except my mother who was devastated. My husband did exactly as m father thought he would. He walked away from all the debt. After all, it was in my name and my father’s name. This of course ruined both my dad’s credit and my own. My mother continued to pay all the bills as long as she could. Eventually, she had to file for bankruptcy so that she wouldn’t lose her home. This cause a rift between my mother and myself for many years to come. The creditors continued to call and harass me. I found it very difficult to deal with. I became more and more depressed. I was told by my husband that we would simply change our phone number. That eventually the creditors would give up on me. He became angry with my concern and told me that I was being selfish. He said that I needed to get over my guilt and start being a better wife and mom or that he would leave. So I tried. For a short while it seemed we would again be alright.
Soon my husband put up both the business and our home for sale. He took all the money and said we were going to get a fresh start in another state. We moved to California, the state in which my husband grew up. That now we would be closer to his family. This time however, he purchased our home in his name only. He said now we couldn’t put my name on anything as now I had all these creditors after me. He assured me that one day when he had the money to fix my credit he would and then he would fix everything. Confused I asked him why we simply could not get married again now if he was able to put the home and cars into his name. If he could now do this he must have addressed his IRS issues. He became angry at my questions. He told me that he couldn’t put the assets in my name and that he was not yet completely cleared with his IRS issues. I was so confused. But what could I do? So again, I allowed this man to manipulate and control me. I went along with everything as he instructed me to do. He put the home, the cars in his name. However, he still put bank accounts, business names in my name. It was all too confusing to me but whenever I would question him he would become enraged and have a “venting” episode. You may be saying, “why didn’t I just leave?” I asked myself the same question time and time again. I felt hopeless. Now with my father being gone and my estrangement from my mother I felt I had no one, and nowhere to go. So again I hoped and prayed and tried harder to be a better wife, a better housekeeper, a model mother to our children. However, I never measured up for my husband. Sure we had intermittent moments of happiness. But when it was dark it was black and empty. My husband would tell me that he just didn’t find me attractive; he pointed out my loose skin and even claimed that he didn’t have any desire to kiss me because he said I had bad breath. What little of my self esteem that was left was so far gone now? I would look at myself in absolute disgust and wonder what happen to the strong, beautiful woman I once was. I tried to exercise while caring for the children. I tried dieting. I tried everything. I was just so sad and depressed. My husband said he was so sick of me. I was desperate. Finally, I convinced my husband to allow me a night a week to attend a belly dancing class through the city. He agreed that I could go as long as the dinner was done along with the house work and that the kids were bathed and in bed before I went. I happily agreed. I began attending the class. It was so nice to have adult conversation with other women. I enjoyed my moments to myself. One night while driving home my car broke down as it often did. I tried to call my husband to help me but of course as always had his phone turned off. I sat there in the dark not knowing what to do. Finally, a car stopped and a young man got out and offered his assistance. He helped me get the car started, I thanked him and I drove away. The next time I went to class I saw the same young man who had helped me with my car. He was playing basketball at the same place I was taking my class. He recognized me and said hi. I thanked him again and went to my class. After class that evening sure enough my car would not start, this time that young man was right there to help me again. This soon became a ritual which led to a friendship, which led to a brief affair. I didn’t plan this; I was just so sad and didn’t feel good about myself. This person made me feel worthy like I hadn’t felt in a long time. He thought I was beautiful and enjoyed having conversations with me. I felt happy but at the same time was overcome with tremendous guilt. I ended it as quickly as it began. Telling myself that I would never tell my husband. But guilt had had the better of me and when he randomly probed me about something random, I confessed everything. He responded by letting me know that he now would take everything from me. That I would never have our children that he owned our home, cars and that I needed to get out. That I was a whore and that he wanted me to now have nothing to do with our children or him. I tried to explain, but he said that I was dead to him. He told me to get out. I had nowhere to go. I realized I had nothing and that he was right, that everything was his and that I had no means or support to even fight him and that he would take our children and that there was nothing I could do. He told me that I needed to find someplace to go. He then left me in the front room and shut and locked the door to the hallway that led to our children’s room and ours. What had I done? I felt I no longer had a reason to live without my children. I went to the medicine cabinet and took a large dose of old pain killers. I just wanted to stop all the pain. I thought I would go to sleep and just never wake. I was wrong. I remember waking up in an ambulance. The medics were pumping my stomach. It was an experience I would not wish on anyone. I remember being in the hospital room, my husband at my ear telling me to tell the cops that it was an accident, that if I didn’t tell them this that they would put me away. I was so scared. My husband looked scared too. I told him I was so sorry. He told me to just answer everything as he told me to. So I did. When I returned home my husband told me that he would now stay with me only because I tried to kill myself. He became more and more distant and the venting grew increasingly worse. Now, whenever he became angry it was my infidelity was what he used against me. He reminded me that he was never unfaithful and that he had to put up with me because we had these children together. I blamed myself for everything. I tried to make things up to him. I tried to be the best at everything. But you just can’t be all that. Once in a while my husband would be his charming self. He would tell me that everything would once again be alright; that he loved me and that would get through this. Sometimes it seemed like I was living with two different people. I wanted to believe this and would try and hope and pray. However, it would never be. The venting would always reappear. Now, almost 40 years old I am still trying to hide the “venting” from my children. However, children always see the truth. My oldest came to me one day and said, Mommy, why do you let daddy make you cry? Why does daddy do that? I was horrified. The very thing that I thought I was hiding so well was there for my daughters to see. I thought about leaving. But again, I knew I had no money, nowhere to go, no one to help me. Then the last thing that I ever expected to happen, I found out that I was pregnant. How could this be? I was told almost 10 years earlier that I couldn’t ever have any children again after all my cervical surgeries. I didn’t even have a period. But there I was thinking of leaving and now pregnant with our third child. I thought that somehow this is what I was supposed to do. This is right where I am supposed to be. There has to be a reason. So I put on my happy face and told my husband that I was pregnant. He seemed happy and said that this would be our new beginning. I told him that I too wanted a new beginning and asked that he show me that he was committed and marry me. That he helps me overcome my insecurities and make me his wife after all; we had been living as man and wife all these years and now we’re going to have three kids together. But he refused. He said that he could not get past my infidelity and that if he ever decided to remarry me it would be on his terms. So I just lived on. We had a son. Things never changed, they just got worse. The venting to me became a daily thing. He made me wear my infidelity like a scarlet letter. I no longer knew who the woman was that looked back at me in the mirror. I just existed. I lived for the children and fleeting moments of happiness. My husband came home venting one day and I don’t know what was different but this time I stood up and said no more. I told him that if he was so unhappy that he should just leave. He told me that I was the one who would leave and reminded again as he had done so many years previous that he had everything and that I had nothing. I soon found out he was right. I started calling attorney after attorney. All of them told me that they had never heard of such a thing. That there was nothing they could do as we were already divorced. The only advice they gave was that I could take the children and get child support. So I went home and asked him to leave again. He refused, he told me if I wanted out to leave that he would go nowhere and that the children belong to him. I got a part-time job and looked at getting a place for the children and me. However, he had already begun working on the children. They were frightened and let me know that they did not want to leave their home to go anywhere with me. I had no money and now felt that the girls wouldn’t go with me. I thought of just taking my son and leaving but my husband talked to me and convinced me that it wouldn’t be right to take my son away from his sisters. He told me that I was sick in the head and that the courts would see that soon enough. So I stayed and just kept my mouth shut and tried again to just be better. My husband continued to control me by making me spend any money I would earn on daycare for my son if I wanted to work. There was never much of anything left but what little I had left I planned trips together with my kids as my husband would never give me money to do anything. I started a small ebay business and again would spend all the money on adventures with my children. It was my escape. I thought that one day somehow I might be able to leave. Things never got better; I found it difficult to enjoy anything. My husband’s venting was a regular thing and he would continue to make comments about me disappearing on a boat ride or some other fateful demise. Of course he would always tell me he was joking. I never felt that he was joking. I often told people if anything ever happened to look under the house because he often commented that he could put me there without anyone noticing. I was so unhappy. I often thought of suicide again. One day he came home venting and I just snapped. I decided I had to leave, I knew if I continued to stay that I would surely die. I told him I was leaving. He told me that he would not allow me to take the kids and that I should not inflict this on them. He told me that I was the one who was sick and needed to get help. I sought help from a battered women’s shelter. They set me up with a counselor who tried to council the entire family. At first he agreed, I think out of shock and fear. But then he took the kids to his own counselor who determined that he was a fit parent and that the children didn’t need counseling. He told me that I needed to just get counseling on my own and not drag the family through this. I just wanted to die. So I then decided my only choice was to leave. I thought that I would get on my feet and be able to share time with the children. I was wrong. It didn’t take long before my daughters refused to come and see me on the weekends. They began to refuse to take my calls. My husband then limited my visits with my son to only every other weekend. He told me that was more than any court would give a mother who abandoned her children. My husband had filled my children’s heads and the heads of our entire neighborhood with the thought that I had abandoned him and the children. Even the few neighbors who I know had witnessed him berating me turned against me. I had no one. So I just continued my counseling and tried to put the pieces of my life back together again. All during this time my husband would tell me to come back. He said that he would now marry me. I could not. I could no longer believe anything he said. I was just getting a glimmer of the woman I once was and somehow I thought I would be able to get my children back. So when he realized that I would not return he took all my things, pictures, memories even my wedding gown and destroyed everything. Almost 4 years have passed since I left. I still try and have some type of relationship with my daughters however; they use their father’s words now and have no memories of growing up with me. The relationship I have now had with them is only phone calls when they need money or I should say demand money. They always start out by saying that dad pays for everything and that I don’t pay child support. It pains me greatly; I stay silent and refrain from saying anything negative about my ex. I always just say, I didn’t leave you, I left your father. I tell them that maybe someday they will understand and forgive me. What else can I do? My son however, is only eight and loves his mom. It is difficult to see him only every other weekend. I am missing out on so much. Without the means to fight my husband in court I must abide by his rules and allowance of time with my son. It is killing me to still feel afraid of my ex- husband. I often find myself arguing with him trying to defend myself and even now he still masterfully turns the tables and ends our conversation by telling me that he will not put up with my abusive tone and hangs up the phone. My ex-husband’s manipulation has never disappeared. He has manipulated me into giving and doing things for him saying that if I want to see the children I will. I have done things in order to keep the peace and because I still fear him and am intimidated by him. These things I have had to do have made me feel humiliated. They had continued over the years until recently. My ex-husband met someone. He was quick to call me and let me know that he had met a single mom who was a widow. I knew right away that she must have money or something that he wanted or needed. He even made a strange comment that “she didn’t move him” which usually means that he is not attracted to her. I have learned that she indeed is financially well off. No doubt the reason why he is now moving so quickly. He has been taking our son for sleep over’s to her house and now is bringing her to his house as well. He even has taken her to the timeshare that I purchased (he has been trying to force me to sign it over to him, because he and the kids had been using it over the years and he started paying the yearly maintenance fees the last few years. I haven’t yet) No doubt is telling her that this is his while painting a beautiful picture for her of a wonderful man who was left by his wife to raise their children alone. I feel sorry for her. I know nothing about her other than what he has shared. I am sure that he will gain access to her money, her home and most likely any connections to people he feels will better him in some way. I am sure he has already recognized her weakness and knows how to control and manipulate her. She will be his next victim. There is a part of me that feels relief. Is that wrong? But then there is a part that feels sorry for her. I hope she is smart enough to get a prenup. However, now things have become increasingly difficult for me. It is clear that he now plans on making her his wife. And now that he has discarded me for any use at all he plans on making her the new mother in our children’s life. He has repeatedly tried to upset me in regards to taking what little time I have with my son away for one reason or another. He has told me now when he takes business trips that it will be this woman that he will leave my son to care for. He now demands more and more money from me saying that I need to contribute to all the bills that he pays to raise our children. All along I have given whatever I could. But now since he is in a relationship he wants more. He took our home, cars, bank accounts, everything. I had nothing but the shirt on my back when I left. I have still had to deal with the debt he left in my name. Just recently, I had to come to a settlement for a credit card bill that he took out in my name while we were together. When I called him on this he simply responded that if I hadn’t left he would have taken care of this. Over the years I managed to take a life insurance policy out for each of the children just in case anything ever happen to me. This is really all I have left to give, and that can only be accessed if I were to die. I often think now he is trying to drive me to the brink. He knows that the way to get to me is through the kids. If I were now out of the way he could start this new life with this new woman and he wouldn’t have to deal with any custody issues if I were gone. I am really in a tough place mentally. I have reached out to lawyers who tell me that without allot of money there is really nothing I can do. I am on my knees, just trying to find the strength to get through each day. I keep telling myself that this too shall pass. I have lost everything. If I now lose my time with my son I am afraid that I will simply give up. I often think it just might be easier if I weren’t alive anymore. The only thing that stops me is the thought of leaving my kids and giving him the satisfaction of becoming a martyr if I were to die.
So here I am. Broken, sad and still the shell of who I once was. I write you because I needed my voice to be heard. I guess in a way, I needed to vent. I hope you hear me and can offer words of comfort in my desperation. I have no one to turn to. Can you help me stop or just find a way to deal with the pain?

Ox Drover

Dear Julianna,

I am so sorry that you got trapped into this typical psychopathic slavery to a con man.

I am sure you DO feel like a broken, sad shell of who you were before–but dying is NOT an option, and I hope you will make us here at LF a promise that you will not harm yourself. You are right, it would be exactly what he wanted. Murder by suicide.

Your post is long and I am sure that some of it doesn’t fully make sense to me just how he accomplished all this, except I do she the “gaslighting” and “crazy-making” of the psychopath which drives us all (at one point or another) CRAZY where we don’t know what to trust, and especially don’t trust ourselves.

The gaslighting is blaming YOU for all HIS HATEFUL MEAN SNEAKY AND LYING BEHAVIOR.

I hope that you will get a lawyer and that you are divorcing this man and if the divorce is already over, then I think you need to get an attorney any way I am BETTING he took everythingn so you couldn’t fight him. TYPICAL CONTROL tactic.

CALL A DOMESTIC VIOLENCE WOMEN’S SHELTER AND GO TALK TO THEM. They may be able to help you. Call your local free attorneys, GET SOME LEGAL ADVICE, call the State BAR ASSOCIATION.

GET SOME THERAPY, you should be able to find this free at a local AL Anon group (even if he is not a drunk you will learn a lot about him and CONTROL) There also may be some publicly avaialbe low cost group therapy sessions.

Since you are low income, go see your local welfare agency, the DV shelter will tell you how to go about this. GET ALL THE HELP AVAILABLE.

Sure he knows the way to get you is through the kids. That is the weapon he is using to keep you OFF BALANCE.

Go back through the articles here that are archived under the various writers and subjects. They are mostly 1-2 pages on various subjects about psychopaths and about healing. READ EVERY ONE—-they will help you to understand WHAT HE IS and how you must take care of YOURSELF.

You are under tremendous STRESS—and under a huge load of stress we don’t function well as we are all “upset and confused” and don’t know which way to turn.

Every time you see him or talk to him it sends you back down into the PITS. As much as you can do not talk to him, do not argue with him, and for the present, I would suggest that you talk to your child on the phone rather than see him. So that you can have a couple of weeks to get your head on straight and do some things for YOU. You cannot be a good parent or a good to your self person til you calm down. BEING FRIGHTENED is normal, so it is OK right now, but you need to start taking care of YOU.

The best book on here that I can recommend for you is the BETRAYAL BOND, because it sounds like you have been betrayed and destroyed and now discarded and tortured. Just like a psychopath does to their victims.

I weep for you, but you have landed here in a good place as the people here are smart, educated and STRONG and we have BEEN WHERE YOU ARE. Some of us are still in various stages of the divorce fight, or the fight to accept who they are and learn to trust ourselves again. You will find people here though who DO UNDERSTAND what you are going through because we have walked in your shoes, and down the rock strewn road toward recovery and healing from the abuse and brainwashing we have endured—-many of us for DECADES as you did. ((((((HUgs)))) and God bless you as you heal! Again, welcome to Love Fraud.


Julianna, Welcome. I am sorry to hear about your dear Dad’s passing. I know you can rebuild your relationship with your Mom and your children in the near future. However, right now, it’s all about your healing. Getting you back to being who you want to be. A new and improved YOU!

Stay with us on LF. Write us any time of the day or night and whoever is on line will gladly write you back.

Know that we’ve all been where you are right now. Our stories are different, but the plot is all the same. Deceived, manipulated and controlled by men or women who simply can’t love, can’t fathom what love is all about, have no idea what compassion is and could care less about love, compassion, honesty, ethics, etc. because they are selfishly only concerned about what they can get out of life at anyone/everyone’s expense.

Peace to your heart and soul as you heal from this heel.

Remember, now is the time to focus on yourself. Pamper yourself.

I used to soak in a bubble bath for hours while playing my favorite music. If, within minutes of getting out of the tub I felt depressed again … I’d just refill that bath tub with bubbles, turn on my stereo and soak again.

Learn to relax and try to let go of all outside influences for the time you are soaking in your tub. Yes, that means having your heart broken by listening to what comes out of your children’s mouths due to his controlling and manipulation techniques of their young minds.

Know he’s the broken person and that’s why they need to break everyone they come in contact with.


Thank you all for your kind words. I am having such a difficult day. I didn’t sleep well last night. Today I was suppose to get my son. My ex just changes his mind whenever it suits him and he told me I couldn’t pick him up today because he now has plans with our son and my ex’s new girlfriend. When I tried to argue with him on the phone he said he would not tolorate my abusive tone and hung up the phone. No doubt he has his new girlfriend there close by to bear witness to me raising my voice on the phone. Now, I am on my knees telling my ex Im sorry, what ever I need to now do to see my son. It is so cruel. He is getting such satisfaction seeing me suffer. Its just not a good day for me. My children are all that I have, he has taken everything else from me including my dignity. I am so broken.


Oh Julianna! I want to scoop you up in a big hug. this is GASLIGHTING. it’s pure EVIL! It IS cruel. and using your children in it. Its unbearable! I really feel you. I had my mother do this to me using my daughter…. I felt murderous, desperate, useless…broken… and every move gets you further into the crap they’ve already set up for you to get tangled in. And youre so tired already. I think I would have completely shut down if I hadnt come here and had support (from Ox particularly took a while to sink in) and happened to read something elsewhere that clicked in me also…. it was about letting go. for me. letting go of something you cant bare to. taking yourself out of the ‘game’. trusting that all that is good and real will continue to be so…
My words sound trite so I’ll stop. But much love.x I’ll be thinking about you.


Julianna, it will take time to heal. You are in Post Traumatic Stress (formerly known as Shell Shock) due to all the abuse he forced on you over the years.

Right now, take deep breaths and try to calm down. Your Ex, unfortunately will be there another day to chip away at your self esteem. Know this. He will never change. What you see is what he is. Nothing, but a sniffling, conniving, control freak who has no redeeming qualities.

Your children will be there too. Working on establishing a new connection with your children, your mom will take time so just know this fact too. Take it one day at a time. Minute by minute is the time you need to rid yourself of all the stress he heaped upon your shoulders. It’s not a quick fix. It won’t happen overnight. Know this truth and just go with the flow of every minute living. You will waffle during this time for the next few years. Crying, laughing, feeling strong, feeling powerless, hating yourself for not knowing or seeing what his true motives were. It’s not your fault. None of us knew until it was too late and their damage was done. Complete. Tied us up in a nice little knot … and dumped us on the roadsides of life. Then we found this site. Donna created this site for she and us to heal. You are safe with us. We’ve all walked the same walk you are walking. Step by step, you will be able to put your life back together. We will ALL help you rid your life of the nightmare he created.

Read everything you can on this site. As you read, you will realize you are NOT the only one that was on a crazy roller coaster ride through life with a non feeling, insensitive, egotistical control freak of a driver who’s only motive was to use and abuse, take what he could get, toss you aside so he could find the newest victim to start his craziness all over again.

Peace to your heart and soul sweetheart as you stay with us during your journey of healing yourself from a monster.

Blog with us any time of the day or night … if anyone is on line at the time you write, they will gladly write you back.



My heart goes out to you, not deserving any of the crap that your ex-spath threw your way. These sharks know how to ravage us. All the advice that others have posted is helpful. I am married (but separated) to a spath – what I have experienced just about killed me emotionally. Somehow, I had the grit to persevere (as you do too), although I am not out of the woods yet. These vile people are unbelievable, truly wicked (not caring one iota about all the harm that they inflict on us). To me, karma takes too long, wanting them to get some form of revenge. Your ex-spath definitely doesn’t DESERVE you – he’s out to destroy people. I have been ashamed and embarrassed by all the crap that my h-spath has brewed up over the years, being able to relate to how we cannot look up to or admire these folks (which is disappointing) – they’re always up to no good, mischevious. May the FORCE (God) be with you, definitely supplying you with the support that you need at this time in your life. Your story has really made me mad – he is an EVIL person, the only one who is crazy is him. You’re a giver and he is a taker (of the worst kind). Like you, I’m still dealing with the h-spath (we have three kids) and it takes time to figure out how to proceed, getting on down the road. I applaud you about leaving your ex-spath, doing what you needed to do in order to survive. There are other posters who have left their husbands, the kids being left in that parent’s care, being able to advise you better. You are not an awful person or a bad parent, know this (I think you already do), just beaten down by a very bad man. Finally, you have not lost your dignity, still having it in abundance.


I disagree with my “comrades” here. now is the time to act. Sure, take some time to get yourself stronger, believe that you can win. The awful thing called PAS (parental Alienation) is what is going to work for you. Have your story read by one of the Free Attorneys (each state and each city has one) and have them file for Custody hearing. You are entitled to at least half time with your kids, and the longer you wait the more you are missing out. He is alienating the kids. Have all the evidence – phone calls, his refusals, dates and times documented. Have witnesses – whoever you can find and show that you are a responsible adult able to care for your children. Go for it. Your kids need you even if they do not realize it just yet. And – try to get your family on your side. If you have to, try to get them to talk to his family (but with caution). You may be able to get your kids for joint custody now and if you do nothing, nothing will come of it. Oh, and also, – get a child advocate. They are free or come with a sliding fee. The man should not be talking to you. He should be communicating with you through legal aid.
I read your post in full. I cried with you. And I rejoice that you are here to tell your story. It needs a good ending though


Getting It. I’m glad you graduated and are no logger engulfed with the horror, denial, devastation of being beaten down, taken of everything you had, low self esteem, obsessed, constant thoughts flooding in your mind, going without sleep and when you are awake, wished you could get sleep and the multitude of problems jumbling in our newbies that arrive on this site.

It’s good that you shared your expertise in what Julianna can do regarding free legal support and the rest of her case in court.

But, can you remember to take baby steps with the new folks that fought and clawed their way to this site. Remember what PTSD is all about and how long it took you to bounce back.

I’m glad that you have knowledge to provide Julianna. Great post that you wrote her …other than slowing it down a bit so she can absorb your help.



That’s always what happens when you are high in the chain. You end up getting lighter sentences than what’s deserve.
My family asked me if when I go to college, am I going to keep in contact with my dad? I answered the fact that I don’t know yet because I feel that minimal contact will help me heal from all the trauma that happened with him. My family feels that I owe him by staying full contact with him. My younger sister says that since my dad is a “womanizer” he’s very protective of his daughters(us) but I feel that he feels that he’s losing power and possesion. I find it odd that everytime I’m on a date or with a particular guy he constantly calls me. Then he gets very angry and downright rude to the guy. But maybe its just me but there’s a fine line between protective and controlling. I also feel that it would be better to strictly talk to my dad about school and visit him once in awhile. I feel very bad for his girlfriends( yes, there’s about 5) because he calls them his “friends”. They get all emotional and he doesn’t care.


PTSD: I am still in the grips. Flashbacks, fears, longing, loving, attempting to make sense of that which will never make sense to a human. Thank you, Wini, for reminding me about the baby steps: you are right. It’s just that each day my child is away, I suffer and each day I get him back I start the process of recovery. The ordeal repeats itself every two weeks. So, I know how terrible I feel with each hour my child is in the grip of the P. PTSD or not, not one shrink in the universe can make me feel safe for me or my kid during those days. I think that sometimes when we are given the weapons to stand up for our rights, is when the healing begins. At the end, fear is a huge motivating factor for change. And – it can be used for improvement. At the end – anger is not all bad. If directed properly, it is anger that helps many get back on their feet Despite it all.

Ox Drover

Dear Hurtnomore,

YOu do not OWE anyone ANYTHING. If being around your dad is comfortable and uplifting to you and you are okay with it, but NO ONE has a RIGHT to your company.

You can stand up and say to him (once you are no longer living under his roof or control and are independent of him)
“Dad. You are my father, and I would like to be friends with you at this stage in our lives, but I don’t like being criticised or spoken to in a disrespectful way by anyone that I consider a friend. Friends do not treat each other poorly. I’m telling you this because I would like a relationship with you, but I will not have one if you insist on talking to me in a disrespectful and hateful way.”

Tell your relatives that insist that you OEW him contact, that “I don’t believe I owe anyone who treats me disrespectfully and hatefully contact. People who genuinely care for me will treat me with respect and kindness. People who treat me disrespectfully and unkindly are not people I want to be around.”

There is NO law or “should” that you owe anyone, even a parent the right to abuse and humiliate you.


That’s exactly how I feel that I’m not required to keep in contact with him.

Ox Drover


My whole life other people have told me how I “should” behave toward others in my family who hurt me….and it was difficult for me to go against their advice and insistence that I “do what they said”—but in some cases, they were right , in other cases they were VERY WRONG.

Part of being an adult is making our own decisions based on what we think is the right and good thing to do.

It is possible to have a disagreement with a friend or a loved one and it not end the friendship or relationship, but when one person acts mean, hateful and demeaning and devalues another that relationship is not based on caring and love. It is my belief that someone who demeans and devalues and debases another does not have my best interest at heart. There may be many reasons why they act this way, but I cannot fix them, teach them, all I can do is to say “I WILL NOT be treated with contempt and hateful words. If you want to be my friend, then you must treat me kindly.” It does NOT matter WHO that person is, or how they are related to me.

That’s a difficult stand to take when other family members do not believe you, don’t believe you have a right, etc. but I have learned finally to not feel guilty about taking a stand for myself. It is part of growing up.



I have been thinking about you, hoping that you are doing better. Please try and take good care of yourself. You have been through hell, no doubt about it. I use to live day-to-day, telling a relative that if I made it to the end of a day, that was a good thing, being so worn down, devastated by the onslaught of experiences (spread out over time). Honey, you will make it through. Be good to yourself. Your ex-spath has no Conscience, being unspeakably cruel. It will take time to heal from your ties with him – you can recover, heal, become a stronger, better person despite all of the hullabaloo that this MONSTER inflicted on you.

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