By | December 13, 2011 71 Comments

Doctor is Joran Van der Sloot’s “guardian angel”

A 55-year-old radiologist from Florida, Dr. Mary Hamer, believes Joran Van der Sloot is suffering from post traumatic stress disorder and is the subject of an international conspiracy. Van der Sloot is the Dutchman who is suspected in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, and confessed to the murder of Stephany Flores in Peru. He sits in a Lima jail.

Watch the video interview Dr. Hamer did with Dutch media: Joran van der Sloot’s guardian angel

Read: ‘I’m Van der Sloot’s guardian angel’: Divorced Florida radiologist, 55, pays bills for 24-year-old ‘double killer’ ”¦ and even visits him in Peruvian jail, on

Video of Hamer attempting to see Van der Sloot in prison: Joran Van der Sloot’s admirer: Dr. Mary Hamer says she’s the accused killer’s ‘guardian angel,’ on

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Media sociopaths

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Oh jeez, this always seems to happen with high profile cases. He would rip her to bits if she turned her back. 🙁 I can’t believe some of these guys manage to con all these ladies even while in prison. Actually, the female offenders do it as well. Some just believe too strongly that everyone wants to change, and is capable of it.

Ox Drover

Yea, this is absolutely NUTSO!!! There is something that seems “magic” about these psychopaths that attracts a “certain” kind of person to them…to save them I guess. Not sure what the attraction is but it must be something.

Some of the people attracted to them also don’t appear, at least on the surface, as “nuts” either…and others are frankly nuts! They say Jeffrey Dahmer had 14 women writing to him– all “in love” with him, one who was so distraught when he was killed she had to be sedated. WTF???

Damion Ecohls one of the west memphis three who was on death row for 18 years for a crime I do not believe he is guilty of though, had a woman who wrote to and eventually married him and fought for his release…she is educated, very nice looking, well spoken….but WHY would someone be even attracted to someone on death row (guilty or innocent)??? It just doesn’t make sense to me.



I believe that some only see the charm and forget the facts. There is also something about notoriety that attracts many, regardless of how it is gained.

On hot summer days, 100+ plus, I have seen people waiting on lines blocks long, unshaded, to buy something from the “Cake Boss” when the simple fact is his cakes are no better than any quality baker…

Ox Drover

BBE, I guess I am showing my back woods ignorance but I never heard of “the Cake Boss” LOL So I wouldn’t be standing in line to buy from him/her/it…


This is a great article because it does describe what psychopaths do to vulnerable people. They “enthrall” them.

Let’s face it, most of us here were ethralled by a spath. I know I was. Granted, we had different boundaries at different times. Most of us would say that we wouldn’t fall in love with a serial killer, and that we were duped. Yes, that’s certainly true for me.

But when I read this article
I noticed that my spath could have fit this description and I would not have noticed anything wrong with it. Considering that Ayn Rand created her “hero character” from her description of a serial killer and that her books are considered bible to many people…. that will tell you how many people could be duped by a spath. And that would be a minimum number because I was duped by a spath but not by Ayn Rand…


It reminds me of girls getting with the exciting “bad boy”, or dudes getting with the “bad girl”. Our culture certainly doesn’t help to remedy this situation, what with Twilight and all the other popular works that portray a relationship like this as an adventure.

Oh, and the cake boss sounds so funny. I have images in my head of a Mafia of cake people. Pastries and filling everywhere! ^_^ They have to give away free cakes on the day of their daughter’s wedding!


lmao at Oxy – get a satelite dish countree bumpkin ~! the Cake Boss, is so new yourk..

Ox Drover

Hens, **YOU*** CALLING **ME** A COUNTREE BUMPKIN????? Now THAT’s funny, that’s what that is!!!!! I don’t care who you are, now THAT’s FUNNY!!!! ROTFLMAO Squzzze me, I gotta quit laughing and go feed the pigs! They’re eatin’ so much they’re making hogs of themselves! LOL


Hens ~ I think that we all ought to chip in and buy Oxy a satelite dish for Christmas.

No one should have to go through life without “Hillybilly Handfishing”, “Lady Hoggers” and all the other intellectually challenging programs available only on dish.


Oh and Dr. Hamer, I think she stood way to close to the x-ray machine one too many times. Fried her brain, completely.


thanks for the article, sky… I liked your comment at the end. Thanks for explaining “schizoid” in reference to “spath” there. I liked this austin’s stance though. Liked her debate style.

Tomorrow I have a test on computerprogramming to solve math problems. So, couldn’t be online much the past few days, and could not respond to the people who responded to me with tips for movies to see and all.

Joran Vander Sloot from what I gather from the material I’ve read and seen on him (a tv-movie) seems to be high in spath traits to say the least.

And you may have read or seen the news of this nut who threw grenades and started shooting at a square in liege in Belgium… 5 killed (including himself) and over 120 wounded: he has had trouble with the law since his late teens, has been in jail several times (drug dealing, illegal weapon possession, theiving, …), and had to go to court again for a sexual assault case while he was still under probation. He probably thought to claim some name and mass murdering fame instead of going back to court. His girlfriend with whom he lived together was a nurse and they fought regularly. He lured the cleaning lady of the neighbours into the house before going on his rampant and shot her in the head, before he started his killing spree. They mentioned that Nordin held a worldview of “it’s the world’s fault, not mine”. The court-expert pscyhologist answerd on the news with regards to the questions whether this could have been foreseen: “no, one can never foresee whether someone will act this aggressive…one can only foresee based on diagnosis and past criminal behaviour whether someone is very likely to commit a crime again or not.” He said that Amrani Nordin was a diagnostic case of recidivism. Bingo, I said… there’s your spath.

Not once the word sciopathy, psychopathy or even disorder was mentioned though… The journalists just chucked it on someone who was led astray in his early youth and, without a father figure, and with his recidvism, developed this narcistic not-my-fault view. Wrong. The view was there first. The rest is the result of that.

Ox Drover


QUOTE: Not once the word sciopathy, psychopathy or even disorder was mentioned though” The journalists just chucked it on someone who was led astray in his early youth and, without a father figure, and with his recidvism, developed this narcistic not-my-fault view. Wrong. The view was there first. The rest is the result of that.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT GIRLFRIEND!!!!!! The actions come from the attitude! Not the other way round!



“Cake Boss” is one of those inane cable TV “reality” shows.

Ox Drover

BBE, Well in that case I wouldn’t watch it if it WAS on TV…don’t do the fake “reality” shows at all! LOL Oh, well, guess I didn’t miss much after all! Thanks for the heads up!


Ox and I have Daylight Donut’s down here in the south – yum yum…yap your right about inane BBE….cant believe what people will watch on tv these days..gnite



LOL! After I posted that comment on the website, I had second thoughts because Ayn Rand actually did some weird manipulations of the people in her close circle. She decided to have an affair with a married friend. She told her husband and the man’s wife that this is how it was gonna be and they just had to deal with it. I’m not even sure the married man was given a choice. It was wierd, they all went along with it. Sounds spathy, but the mask isn’t quite right, so I was thinking schizoid.

Now I just think that the labels are confusing and the behavior is indicative of severe narcissism which can manifest differently in different people, depending on many variables.

Maybe it’s never going to be cut and dried or maybe we’re all just looking at it the wrong way.

Yes, I liked Austin’s perspective and reasoning as well.


I wonder, how would Dr. Hamer do on Wheel of Fortune? Can she spell HYBR–STOPH–L–A?

sharing the journey

If the ‘cake boss’ was chocolate–he would eat himself. Talk about loving yourself.


Ox Drover

Sky, quoting your above comments “Now I just think that the labels are confusing and the behavior is indicative of severe narcissism which can manifest differently in different people, depending on many variables.” I AGREE…while psychopaths have some things in common, lack of empathy (to one degree or another, usually pretty much empathy-free) lack of a moral compass, again to one degree or another, and so on…..not all psychopaths are identical.

There are varieties of them just as there are breeds of dogs. A great dane, a pit bulldog, a beagle and a poodle are ALL DOGS….and some are more aggressive and likely to bite than others, and some breeds have special talents that have been bred into them, like the Border Collie’s herding, or a pointer’s finding birds…and psychopaths are all psychopaths but different too….and some of them are ALSO bi-polar which adds a new aspect to them, and/or ADHD, some are total social wash outs and others are like Bernie Madoff and socially skilled enough to get smart people to invest great sums of money with them.

Some Fly OBVIOUS ** RED BANNERS** and others mask well at least in public, and some mask well in private most of the time, like my egg donor’s “sweet caring and Christian little old lady” mask. LOL

What we have to learn with them all is to find and see the RED FLAGS, to see the cracks in the masks, even if they are tiny, but to also learn to set BOUNDARIES on how we allow people to treat us, and to BE CAUTIOUS with who we let within our circle of intimacy and HOW FAST we allow that to progress.

Recognizing that there are some differences and some similarities in the psychopaths, just as not all dogs are identical in appearance, not all psychopaths are either. But once you recognize that the animal you are dealing with is a psychopath, you know not to turn your back on it EVER, or put your face too close. You are likely to be bitten for sure!


the problem with your dog analogy is that there is no designation for the canine which could be considered purely a canine with no other differentiating traits. My spath was pure psychopath. He is the poster child of psychopathy. He has been involved in criminal activity since childhood, but except for a short time in juvy for truancy and running away from home ( he escaped juvy by conning the social worker with his tears), he never gets caught.

So he is spath but not of any breed.

Cleckley talked of this problem. I’ll have to re-read that part, but I don’t recall that he ever resolved it satisfactorily.

Ox Drover

Sky, well maybe the “wild canines” could be the “purely canine” example…and I know the analogy between dogs and psychopaths isn’t perfect, because canines do in general have loyalty, sense of fairness, take care of their young etc. and are as a group not psychopathic, but they do LOOK DIFFERENT from each other in many ways, and they have some different character traits, like some are more aggressive than others, some more volatile than others, and all these differences were achieved by SELECTIVE BREEDING (DNA in other words) as well as some environmental differences.

In breeds of cattle and horses as well as dogs, there are “breed characteristics” as far as aggressiveness is concerned, like the Spanish Fighting Bulls have had aggression selected for, where as most dairy cattle the females at least have been rigorously selected for calm dispositions.

The thing about people though is that the outward appearance is not enough to show you what “breed” a person is….psychopathy is apparently uniform across racial and cultural lines and is a trait that is found in all countries, all races, all cultures, etc. Yet, I think many of our racial and cultural prejudices are based on people of one group meeting a psychopath of another culture or race and assuming that ALL of that culture or race are psychopaths, where as it is only a smaller percentage, just like in our own group.

Learning that people who are psychopaths are bad is more difficult than seeing all of one “other” group as “bad”—it would be easier for us all if we could LOOK at a psychopath and know what it was, like looking at a dog and knowing it is a beagle and not likely to bite, but human psychopaths are not that easily identifiable. Wouldn’t it be nice if they were? You can’t even tell one when you glance at them by how they dress, or talk, or if they are rich or poor, because we humans have the ability to MASK ourselves, to blend in with the group and appear like a “good guy”—at least until they get close enough to attack! Frustrating, isn’t it? LOL


that’s why I call them infants. Because across all humanity, they have infants. And when you get the sense that you are dealing with an infantile mentality in an adult, that’s a red flag. Your gut recognizes an infant, even when you’re brain doesn’t.

Still, there is a problem with that analogy too: there are many different stages of infancy. So some spaths will be more infantile than others. It depends on the stage that they’ve regressed to. Mine was about 10 months old, still nursing, poopy diaper and filled with rage.

sharing the journey

My ex P could be described as laid back and calm. In fact–like me (only seeing the significance of it now e.g. mirroring). But what he revealed to me was what he was–a wolf in sheeps clothing. No insult to the wolves intended.

The total opposite.

Or cunning as a fox. No insult to foxes intended.

I have always been a cautious person and whenever I met someone I didn’t know–I would automatically think–Friend or Foe.

Now I add–Wolf or fox.

I have always felt that my totem animal was a dolphin and I have one tattooed on my shoulder. It is part of my identity.

I am an animal lover and have a tendency to ascribe animal behaviour to humans and vice versa.

Just hate insulting them.


Ox Drover

Dear littlewhitehorse,

Yes, they are cunning and they do disguise themselves “wolves in sheep’s clothing” and they are predators for sure!

We become prey animals to them. They become the predator animals to us. We are seen simply as meat to them. Wolves actually are great family members, good friends, to each other, and loyal to the pack, and in general respectable members of the animal kingdom, but because they must eat they hunt, kill and devour their prey. Psychopaths though, seem to enjoy the kill, the chase and the hunt, even if they are not hungry, it is just entertainment to them.

I don’t have a problem with a wolf that kills to eat, but I do with one that just enjoys the killing when he is not hungry.


Speaking of dogs, wolf’s, foxes, and poopy diapers. I just drove by my spath. She’s inserted herself in between my home and work. We saw each other and I had my husband with me. She did not give me the finger or anything like like; she gray rocked me! 🙂

Now, she knows we know she is here and she is SO paranoid by nature. She’s screwed over sooo many people she has to watch her back at all times. Makes me wonder why she would follow us to the same nieghborhood? I KNOW she has this info: her last shot at us was her only shot at us.

I just can’t stand this woman…she is despicable, theiving, lying piece of crap. Oh, on the plus side (literally) she got HUGE. Doesn’t she know that stress makes ya gain weight??

OK enuff ranting. Thanks for listening.


I’m glad that she didn’t give you the finger. Her gray rock was only because you didn’t instigate any drama with her. If you had, she would have given you the finger! 🙂

Speaking of poopy diapers and the finger… I have to tell you a story.

One day I was driving in my truck and pulled up to a red light in the right lane. There was a sedan to my left. I looked at it and there was a baby about 1 year old in the back seat, CLEARLY GIVING ME THE FINGER!!!! His arm was extended in front of him and his hand was in a fist except for the middle finger, which was extended. He was gazing solemnly at his “bird” and I was directly in front of it.

There was an older couple in the front and his parents, a younger couple were in the backseat with him. I honked my horn. They all looked at me. I pointed to the child. It was hysterical. They all JUMPED in their seats as if they had seen a snake. Their bodies recoiled from the infant like he was contagious! They were mortified and couldn’t react for several seconds. Finally the dad reaches over and pulls the infant’s hand down. LOL!

It was apparent, that this infant had seen someone do the “bird” and he noticed the drama that ensued. He intuited that there was POWER in this symbol, because of the emotional response to it. When I pulled up, I’m sure he was already sitting there, just contemplating the symbol and wondering what it could mean. Perhaps imagining how he could use it to get what he needed – attention. Kind of like an infant Walter Mitty, daydreaming of an alter ego with super powers in his finger.

As it turned out, reality confirmed this infant’s fantasy because when his parents saw him using the finger, they reacted exactly as if he’d pulled a gun. There is no question that he noticed that. I think it’s going to be very difficult to teach this child NOT to use this formidable weapon, the middle finger, because he’s already learned that the middle finger gets drama and attention.

Isn’t that just the way it is with spaths too?

sharing the journey

Hi Oxy

I hope you don’t mind me calling you that. Believe it or not- I admire wolves and their culture–but I like simplifying things in my mind. Hence the apology to wolves.

I was most certainly Prey. He called me food. God–I must be getting better–I caught myself laughing there. But at the time I went into complete shock at the objectification.

Peace and love

sharing the journey


Hysterical. The mind boggles.

Peace and Love

Ox Drover

Little white horse,

Nah, not at all. “Oxy” seems to be what nick name I’ve been tagged with on Love Fraud….which is funny really as the word Ox, as in Ox Drover, is an adjective to Drover, and means a person who drives oxen, versus a teamster which is a person who drive horses, or a person who drives more than one yoke of oxen (i.e. 4 or more oxen) Once a psychopathic troll came here and was being snarky, and I suggested he call me “Ms. Drover” LOL

Yes, I admire wolves as well, their family life is very interesting, but they can also have psychopathic traits when a “zeta” wolf is in a pack. That wolf is persecuted for “fun” and just to be mean. I saw a documentary recently too about a pack of wolves that attacked another pack and killed them off, sort of like people going to war. They didn’t need and couldn’t control that territory, but they eliminated that other pack seemingly for sport.

I do know that parents will kill a pup that doesn’t obey the “family rules” and can’t be corrected. I guess like the Inuit who said that in their culture a psychopath would be pushed off the ice when no one else was looking. Probably works to keep the DNA out of the tribe or pack. LOL Unfortunately in our world the psychopaths seem to be prolific breeders.


Thanks for your response Skylar.

Talk about symbolism! That story was a good one.


Here is a story the spath told me.

She went out to dinner with a man who had money. While having drinks a girl she knew who accused her of efffing her boyfriend came up and sucker punched her in the nose.

Everyone said don’t cause a scene, you’ll ruin the date etc. So, what she did was take off her dangly earings and her high heeled shoes. She grabbed the girl by the hair and pulled her outside. She then bashed her head against some brick wall outside until the girl begged for her to stop.

Of course the man wit’ the money never called back and she ended by saying this: SHE RUINED MY LIFE

I laugh now, but that was a wtf moment for me for sure!

sharing the journey

Thanks. I hate to feel I am being too familiar without consent.

Bang goes my romantic notion of wolves, Best to keep it that way to protect myself.

Thanks for info.

sharing the journey


At least with the violent ones you see them for what they are. It’s the sneaky ones I am afraid of.

Ox Drover

yea, the sneaky wolves are the ones to fear, the ones with the sheep skin on their backs….the ones who LOOK LIKE WOLVES are not to be feared because we recognize them for what they are and stay away from them….it is the sneaky ones we must fear because of their disguise we let them close enough to us to strike.

A snake, even a poison one that is 10 feet away is NO DANGER, it is the sneaky snake that is near our foot that we get bitten by.

In fact, I saw an article the other day about a young man at a WILD LIFE GUIDE SCHOOL of all places who was there to study about how to be a wild life guide in South Africa. A black mamba snake (A VERY POISON ONE) was found at the school and someone there caught it using a snake hook and put it into a box, but some FOOL decided that they would put it into a glass jar so they could show it around the school and the FOOL dropped the snake and the young man got bitten “slightly” on the hand…he was assured he was fine, and an hour later according to the story, he dropped dead. DUH?

Well, first of all I think it was more likely more than an hour, but I don’t doubt that he dropped dead, it is a neurotoxic venom.

My big question is why the FOOL at the school that was supposedly teaching these young people how to be guides in the African wilderness didn’t recognize the EXTREME DANGER in messing around with a mamba?

We must RECOGNIZE THE EXTREME DANGER IN MESSING AROUND WITH A PSYCHOPATH, with interacting with them. Maybe they are not ALL fatally toxic, but we know they can and will “bite” and we know there is a possibility that if the do “bite” we might die….so why mess with them at all. NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT!!!!

And don’t rent them “cyber” space in our heads!


geez, what a tell.

Some elements of it might have been real, but mostly not.

Once you’ve been punched in the nose, your date is ruined.
Secondly, do you really believe a man with money (or good reputation) would date that skank? In her fantasy.

Taking off earings and heels is well known skank behavior before they get into a cat fight. I saw it on TV. A woman threatened, “don’t make me take off my earrings!”

I think she was threatening you with violence only doing it covertly.

My spath did a similar thing. When we first met, he regaled me with stories of winning in court – even when he was actually guilty. I have some doubts about it now, but I can see that he was trying to instill fear of crossing him, in me. He was posturing and letting me know that he will ALWAYS WIN even in court. The stories were told in a benign and entertaining manner, but the message was clear.

All lies.


WHOA horsie! Heading down the wrong road here. Just want to interject a different perspective on some posts that seem to be heading into a ditch.

There is a phrase in statistics, “correlation is not causation”, meaning just because something happens at the same time as another event, they are NOT necessarily linked.

A one year old is fascinated with their fingers. In NO way are they thinking to flip someone the bird in another vehicle. Parents become protective as a response to a stranger pointing out such an offense but it’s not an admission of guilt.

Have also noted that links are posted to clearly inflammatory propoganda articles with a certain political agenda; such articles are taking facts and assigning intent as if it is TRUTH when only WE know what’s in our minds. When WE reveal our intent, only then can the fact and the intent be connected. (slippery slope)

My spath did this to me. I’d do something. He’d decide it had an ulterior meaning (b/c EVERYTHING had an ulterior meaning to him, he assumed I had ulterior harmful intent as well.). THEN he’d punish me for what he decided I was Thinking. Only I wasn’t. My action was usually innocent.

For instance: If I moved the salt shaker, it might be an unconscious action b/c I was cooking and it was too close to a pan of boiling water and I didn’t want the condensation to plug up the holes. But my spath took it as an insult about his habit of salting food before tasting and he’d walk out the door obviously angry, slamming things and tear down the driveway and go eat at someone else’s house, angry that I’d be so critical. And he’d end the evening with a come on flirtation to the cook as punishment b/c I was so “difficult”. The gossip would pass around town the next day as he was pitied for having a wife who was so bitchy.

It was SO common that my husband and his family/friends would gossip about the meaning/intent of everything I did and the interpretation was always used to demean, degrade, and harm me as if I were this monster. When they first started doing this to me, I would twist myself into a pretzel trying to understand what I did that gave such a wrong impression and I’d try to FIX or explain myself. It was quite painful to be so condemned over THOUGHTS I did not and would NOT think. Nobody would ever assign GOOD meaning to my movements. It was always translated to confirm what a terrible person I was.

One of the most valuable university classes I took was a first year class that taught critical thinking. We’d go through the newspapers and learn how to identify biases. An article that attacks a person rather than a behavior has a political power agenda. The stuff is written as if interpretation is FACT. And b/c the public tends to read at a very low comprehension level, it clearly demonstrated why the press is so powerful.

Just a perspective I want to bring up b/c we need to assess our own biases in order to not project them. We’re not helping ourselves when we participate in same manipulative tricks done to us. Just ONE of the behaviors I had to unlearn.

Katy, who tries to look for the plank in her eyes.


the infant does not understand flipping the bird, true. He only mimics what he sees – if it has made on impact on him due to the drama that it evoked. He wasn’t even aiming it at anyone, he was simply contemplating the look of his hand in that position. And he was not examining it closely, he was holding it straight out, PALM UP, WITH A TIGHT FIST, MIDDLE FINGER CLEARLY EXTENDED in a VERY obvious imitation of “flipping the bird”. Parents did not become protective, they recoiled visibly. The father reached over the mother, who sat frozen in fear, to pull the baby’s arm down. I only regret not having my video cam.

As for the “political posts” you mentioned, can I assume you are talking about Ayn Rand? We commonly call Bill Clinton and George Bush psychopaths on this blog. They are political figures, they chose the public spotlight, so they are open to scrutiny.
It is not about their political agendas (which are “allegedly” opposites) that we speak about when we mention them. It is about what we perceive to be spathy behavior.

So it is with Ayn Rand. She chose to make herself a public figure and to put her life in the public eye. When I mention her here, it is in the same spirit as we mention any other public figure – in the context of psychopathy. Which is what this blog is about. I don’t care about her political viewpoints. I think she was – to some degree – trying to come to make sense of the world around her.

She just didn’t seem to understand boundaries. I can relate to that part. That’s why I’m learning about them.


Skylar & Littlewhitehorse,
Yes, I think your right about it being lies. Maybe she was fantasizing about bashing someones head against a brick wall (mine maybe?lol) Yes, she does come off as a ‘tough’ woman. But, she sneaky also. She snuck into our apt. lawd knows how many times and stole money and other stuff. Then lied about it and told the police that my husband tried to break into her house by turning the door knob back and forth! lie, lie, lie.

See? Seeing her today triggered me…ugh! Oxy, your right no contact and no renting space in my head!

Ox Drover

Interestingly enough, I think Sky has a point there about trying to “frighten by proxy” by telling a story that happened to them, where they beat the living carp out of someone else, tells the person they are talking to “hey if I hurt them, I could hurt you as well.” That I think was the point of my son Patrick’s telling me how if “you knew how bad my crime was, you wouldn’t like me” he was actually THREATENING me by telling me how much worse his crime was than even the cops knew….in a way saying “if I can do this horrible thing to them, I can do it to you.”

IF the story Ana’s psychopath told was true, it was still a THREAT I think. I used to “threaten the kids” with “DON’T MAKE ME STOP THIS CAR,” but my kids knew I meant it, so it quelled the riot in the back seat pretty well. LOL

I’m not sure what political links you are pointing to, Katy, but yea sometimes we ALL have biases, and I for one know I do. (so yea, I have a big beam in my eye I know) I think all or a high majority of politicians are CROOKED to the bone! I don’t trust one word that comes out of their mouths.

While I know that statistically only 25% of the convicts in prison are 30 points or above on the PCL-R, but at the same time, I don’t think there is a snow ball’s chance in Hades that a convict will “reform” though I know there are a few cases where there are convicts that reform. I support a prison ministry that only has a 10% recidivism rate for their inmate members, and that’s pretty good when you see that there is a 60% recidivism rate for all parolees. (Only 40% finish their parole without another felony) so that’s pretty good, they at least pick out the best of the inmates, and we know that they aren’t “reforming” any psychopaths, even though a few, like my son Patrick, are involved in their programs. Patrick learned how to pretend to be a Christian and talk the walk, but never walk the walk.

That being said, I would never have a relationship with an exconvict simply because the STATISTICS are such that the AVERAGE PCL-R score is 22, and while that means that half of them have a score LESS than 22, I’m not going to take a chance again ever of associating with an ex felon if I have a choice.

So, yea, I am biased, I am prejudiced, and I think that past behavior is indicative of future behavior…so while I may forgive someone’s bad behavior, “I ain’t never ever gonna trust them again!” Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!


Good one: “frighten by proxy”
definition: a spath tell in which he or she describes how they have destroyed other people, in order to convey a subtle threat.

Add that to the LF Lexicon book.

Ox Drover

Yea, I think that is exactly what my son was doing! EXACTLY! He was so frustrated with me he didn’t know what to do because I wasn’t responding to the “but Mommmmm, what would Jesus do?” ploy, so he reverted to the “only slightly veiled threat mode” which he uses I am sure in prison in his dealing with other inmates.

My X BF used to tell me things he had done to get “revenge” on others, and even told me he wanted to burn his “cousin’s” house….talked about how he would do it. (He was an electrician) and STOOPID ME I tried to talk him out of being so bitter…but the “reason” he wanted to burn his cousin’s house kept changing, and though my Short term memory is bad, even I picked up on the fact that the reason kept changing….then BINGO, his X GF’s house burns—an electrical fire!!! DUH and it just so happened it happened on a day he was passing by her house and KNEW she was not home that day….and he sure didn’t act surprised when I told him her house had burned, AND his first comment was “well, good enough for her.” Can you even imagine why the x GF and I both think he burned it? Nah, he might as well have confessed. But legally NOTHING! Just like your X’s “confession” to tampering with the helicopter but just not enough for a court room conviction with no other evidence available. It all went up in smoke.

Patrick loves to BRAG too about his illegal activities both before and after he pulls them off. It seems that he MUST HAVE AN AUDIENCE in order for it to be “real” to him. It isn’t enough to pull off a robbery, he must have someone ADMIRE what he did.

Not all psychopaths are that way though, but some very narcissistic ones seem to require that audience and brag about their crimes. Usually those braggarts get brought down by their own mouths, not always, but most of the time. My P sperm donor liked to brag but people wouldn’t believe him, they thought he was such a liar that even when he admitted to murder no one believed him. LOL Well, I did, and my husband did, but most people didn’t. Travis’ father seemed to want an audience and of course that brought him down too. Bernie Madoff didn’t seem to want to brag about what he was doing, but if he had, it would have brought his house of cards down sooner. Makes me wonder though about those that are not big braggarts, how many of them are there, and how much do they get away with under the table? Food for thought.


The political link I referred to was one what the author concluded that if someone read a book written by Ayn Rand, it meant they were spath like Ayn Rand. No it doesn’t. Such a statement is not true at all. I have read Mein Kampf but in NO way does it correlate that my mindset matches Hitler’s.

I wasn’t there for the bird but I do know child development. A two year old might copy such a gesture. No way is a one year old able to make such a link. People who flip the bird so much that their child copies it are pretty crass and would not be concerned if their child did the same. They’d be more likely to laugh at it than be horrified.

sharing the journey

Hi katydid

You sound well.


I met 10 month old, Brooke, on the day she took her first steps.
I was wearing a long black leather coat, high heels, and I have long dark hair. I stood, after talking to her for a bit and put my hands in my pockets. She stood too and looked up at me, then put her hands on her hips – all while gazing at me intently. Babies do mimic.

As for the baby in the car, I didn’t get his name or age. He looked about 1.

BTW, who said reading a book makes you agree with it? I read Mein Kampf too – well I tried anyway, I was 12 and the book was too boring.

sharing the journey


There is nothing that a one year old child could do that would make me horrified


Wow Skylar & Oxy,
“frighten by proxy” That is exactly what she did. I am physically afraid of her because she seemed so violent; stories and swearing, and calling every woman the “c” word..ugh.

I don’t think she ran her mouth about the crimes she has commited though. No, you couldn’t drag that info out of her. The only reason I know she has a record of larceny dating back to the 80’s is the detective told me.

I think that’s why (mainly)she hates me so much, I found out about her dirty past. Her mask was being threatend.

Ox Drover

Ana, yea, they do not like their mask threatened. Some want to be thought violent and others want to appear benign like my egg donor. She is very careful with her mask and always has been. I didn’t realize it until recently though. it is amazing what we “see” and don’t really SEE, if that makes any sense.

My egg donor is the definition of a “lady” –wouldn’t say feces if she had a mouth full, much less shiat! I realized early on that she was a fake as far as covering up what happened at home…keeping the family’s dirty secrets, but I didn’t “flash” that that was a BAD thing. LOL

Once I had a video to make for a psych class in nursing school, my entire class grade depended on that video. I was SCARED to death when I made it…stage fright DELUX version, and I had stress sweat pouring on the palms of my hands and down between my boobs, my heart was racing so bad I could feel it, like4 a panic attack, and guess what??? My partner and I made the ONLY 100% grade EVER made on that video test, I looked like the MOST CALM AND COLLECTED PERSON YOU EVER SAW. In the part where I was the therapist I was totally professional and calm appearing, and in the part where I was the “crazy” patient, I was perfect! PER-FECT!!!! I had learned at my mama’s knee how to be an actress and cover up my feelings and my fears and PUT ON AN ACT. I should have won an academy award for my performance. I was actually STUNNED when I watched the video because I was sure my beating heart could be seen under my blouse. I also realized at that time that I had learned it at mama’s knee, but I just didn’t realize the GRAVITY of that lesson, or what it had done to my life. I had sucked in the “let’s pretend we are a nice normal family” with my egg donor’s milk. Learning to FEEL and to stand up for myself…that’s been so much harder.


My husband’s mask is everything to him. IMAGE management is paramount to his ability to manipulate. Exposure would indeed be threatening. It’s why his smear campaign began way before the discard, he knew that I knew too much and he was going to have to undermine my credibility.

Therefore, I think you are right, her hate does not come from you being wrong or immoral, it’s comes from you KNOWING her secret.

Skylar, yes, babies mimic. but complex multiple control of small motor skills in the fingers does not happen at age one. a child of one is intent on their favorite sucking fingers, usually the two middle or their thumb. correlation is NOT causation.

sharing the journey

I just thought it funny to imagine a little baby putting two and two together to come to a quite–perhaps plausible conclusion.

Even if the baby is too young–the way that Skylar described it was funny.


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