April 4, 2019 at 3:35 am #49639
I wanted to share my story in the hope that maybe people can guide me and give me advice. I am so broken and confused, so destroyed.
I will try to summarise the story in the best of my ability.
In December 2017 I had an interview via Skype for a job I applied in another country. I was interviewed and I wasn’t offered the job but somehow the person who interviewed me and I started chatting via whatsapp. We were talking quite a lot. After a couple of days, I asked if he was married by any chance to what he said yes. I thought to stop there and then but he went onto say that he wasn’t happy in the marriage, that he felt he had married that person in order to not stay alone and that he didn’t want to spend the next 30 years of his life like this. Married 25 years and 3 children. (10 years back he had moved in with another woman and after 2 months he returned home because of the children). He told me he was falling in love with me, that his heart was mine, that he wanted to live with me, be a couple and that he was serious about me. We continued talking.
Coincidentally, at that same time I was offered another job I had applied for in that same country where he lives and where he is from and I took it. This job was in a city 300 kms away from where he is. He told me things such as – “being without you is not an option”, “I want to replace my current relationship” (with me) and so on. I really believed what he told me. Thing is that after about 2 months he came to visit me one day and told me out of the blue that he was not leaving his family and was staying. Somehow, we continued talking but during the 8 months I was living there he came to see me a total of 5 times for about 12 hours each time. Many times, he wouldn’t reply to my messages on whatsapp, another time I was talking to him and told him that he didn’t seem to have the initiative to call and that I was feeling things had changed. He hung up on me while we were talking and told me he wasn’t wasting his Sunday listening to things like this. He refused to answer my messages for hours on end and never apologised. Then he went onto say that he didn’t do that to people, i.e. hanging up. There were many times I would see him online on messenger and whatsapp but he always denied talking to others. Even at the start I remember twice when he said he was going to sleep at 11 PM and then I would see him online at 1 AM. He would never ask me how my weekends were or what I did despite knowing I was alone in a foreign country and knew no one. One weekend I was sick and he wouldn’t even ask how I was. He said we were not living together and therefore he didn’t have to ask and that he wasn’t my babysitter. If I had a toothache he wouldn’t ask and he would say he is not like that. He always would say he likes me a lot but when I asked what he liked he would say – I will tell you one day or I’d rather tell you what I don’t like because I will finish quicker. Another day I told him I like him and what I liked and when I asked back he said I had described it very well and that he would use exactly my same words.
I stayed there for 8 months and decided to go back to my country and leave everything in November 2018. He told me he was convinced we would see each other again and I didn’t really understand how since I was going back home in a different country. After one month, in December 2018 while we were talking one day he told me that the person who was working at his company, which was the position he initially interviewed me for, was leaving and if I was interested in the job. I didn’t have a job at the time and I said yes so this time at the beginning of January 2019 I moved to the city he lives in and where he works to work with him. I must say that he didn’t promise a relationship but he never told me there would be nothing between us. In fact, I came back and there was something going on between us including sex. He always would say he was staying with his family and that this would stay that way. For 2 months he was nice to me although he barely saw me – just maybe once every two weeks. In the office he flirted with me when people were not around and he looked happy to have me here. We went twice for dinner and the last time he said we could go somewhere the next time. And I travelled back home for a week to get stuff from there and he told me “please, come back”. I asked why he offered me the job and he said that it was better to have me here than back where I lived in my country.
He was with me last time on the 11th of March – sex included. The next day I asked if we could have dinner sometime and he started to be really angry saying we couldn’t have dinner every second day!!! – we had had dinner twice in 3 months. He was talking to me in such an angry state to the point he told me to get off the car and that he was leaving with me or without me in it. I was shaking, in shock not knowing what I had done wrong. The times he would visit me he would spend 1 hour at the most, had sex and soon later out of the door. I felt bad, really bad but kept going.
Out of the blue a few days later after being together and after spending the whole weekend without answering a single message I sent, he tells me he has a crisis at home and that he has to deal with it and follow a certain order but he didn’t want to share details with me. He mentioned something about drugs with his son but my intuition told me there was something else. He told me it was better to distance the situation between us and to be friends. I insisted and he ended up telling me “yes I met someone very recently and it is serious”. I asked “but you were seeing me” and he said “yes, but not at the same level”. Then he goes home at 11 PM on a weekday and tells his wife about this and the next day he travels to meet the new woman. He told me the wife was very shocked and I don’t know what he proposed to her. He is planning to move out now for someone he met days ago when he had always told me he was staying at home and this was not changing.
He refused talking to me, walked out on me every time I wanted to talk, shouted and even at the beginning when he was very nice to me one day, he told me he would like to have me in the basement and he would give me food and drink.
Now I wonder, he always told me he would stay where he is with his family, now he meets someone a few days ago and he leaves when on top of that there are family problems with one of the sons. The other woman married with children too. I don’t know what this has been really and I am leaving this job and country. I can’t work with him anymore and this was a mistake to accept this job. He told me he would hate not to have me in this office because he likes to work with me and have me around.
April 5, 2019 at 9:36 am #49646
Hurting badly – I am so sorry for your experience. The guy is at the very least, a player, and at the worst, disordered.
I am glad you are leaving. he will never change and you will never have a fulfilling relationship with him. Go back home and never talk to him again.
April 7, 2019 at 3:01 pm #49656
But what about the comment ” I would keep you in the cellar and give you food and drink”? Also, he told me he gave me the job because it was better to have me here than in my country and he said he would hate not having me in the office when I said I am leaving because he likes to work with me and having me around. The pattern here serms to be ” have you”….
- This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by hurtingbadly.
April 8, 2019 at 8:04 am #49664
Dear Donna, I had to write to you. I had to.
From my post you may know I am alone in the country I am in, no friends and no family.
I gave this person the resignation letter at the end of March ( although witout signature) that I was leaving at the end of April. He confirmed it in writing, that I would leave end of April. My soul a d intuition told me to leave. I could not continue working there.
I did tell him I dont want to see him ever again either as a partner, frien as he proposed ( only when it suited him as he already had someone new) or as a colleague. I told him all I think of him and how he played with me and used me.
Today I go to work and I receive an email from him copying HR and my colleague saying I had to hand in the key today and that my services are no longer needed there although I would get paid for the month of April. I responded by email asking the reason why copying HR. He came to my desk angry and shouted in front of everyone to give the key and leave. I said I wanted a reason. He said he doesn’t have to give me a reason. This with the whole office listening. He switched off my computer and I said I had to close my email. He removed keyboard and mouse aggressively and told me that was the company’ s property. I told him whatever he hadvto tell me to do it in private. He didn’t. He continued talking to me like this in front of everyone. By the way, I continued to do my job as usual even if I informed I was leaving at the end of the month. I asked for a reason to ask me to leave like this. Next thing was ” I will call the police if you dont go now”. The bitch of my colleague, clearly alineated with him said ” yes, I call them. I got my things and he came to the door holding it for me ( I felt escorted like a criminal and I even felt asvhe would push me if I didn’t leave quickly. I couldnt do anything. This is a US company by the way although I am in Germany and Germans working there. He is German.
Donna, please help me with your insight. I am destroyed.
May 3, 2019 at 12:35 am #51993
hurting- You were conversing with slimone. Hope she comes back.
May 3, 2019 at 1:51 pm #51994
Not sure what happened to all of our conversation. So, just checking to see how you are doing? Slimone
May 3, 2019 at 2:20 pm #51995
I want to reply to you but I am leaving on Sunday and have so much to prepare with flat and furniture.
I read your last reply. It made me think hard and wanted to reply to every point you made or asked. Then I saw all your posts are gone. They were a saver for me as I kept reading them so many times, everytime I need air I come here to read what you wrote and now everything gone 🙁
I only have my phone and the posts show in a very strange way, difficult to read.
I will reply. I feel my head spins as I have to leave and feeling sad, as if this was such a huge mistake…too much pain to bear
May 4, 2019 at 2:14 pm #51998
I will be here when you return. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. You will make it. Promise.
May 6, 2019 at 10:30 am #52008
I left and back at home and as I said I was so sad to see that all of our conversations were deleted. I used to come in here just to read. It helped me so much. Now I don’t even have that. I cannot remember exactly the questions you asked me on your last message. My head spins badly. All this reminds me of the time I was back at home in November and he offered me the job. I really felt he saved my life. I am so destroyed. I feel I have lost everything. I cannot accept or believe there was no good bye or anything. Someone who welcomed me the way he did and now not only without a good bye but also with a memory that my mind and heart cannot erase. I will never forget the way he threw me out. The pain is unbearable. I really thought that he cared for me. So many times he told me he liked me a lot and seeing the way he helped me and offered me the job reconfirmed it.
My head works non stop, thinking from the very first time I met him to then all the things he told me at the start to then telling me he was staying with his family, to then seeing me sometimes to then me returning home in November when I thought it would be the end of it to then offering me the job to 3 months later abandoning the country like this.
I am literally broken, unable to think clearly at all, unable to know what he is, remembering the things he said to me, the way he treated me (both good and bad) and the pain to think he is happy with someone else when the last month I am going through hell. I have been left alone there, with no one to help me to move out, having to face 3 months of payment for rent, losing money for all the furniture I bought, being denied to get paid for the holidays I was entitled to by him. My heart bleeds.
This is the person who said liked me a lot and cared for me?????
I wish I knew what I have been dealing with. I wish I had finished this so much earlier. I wish I wouldn’t have given him the chance to do with me what he did. So many weekends when I was looking forward to seeing him and on Friday he would say “Maybe we meet at the weekend but I cannot promise”. Then Saturday would come and he wouldn’t even say yes or no. I would text him and ask “well, the day is going by and I don’t know if we meet or not”. Only then he would say something like “sorry, it won’t work today” and “maybe tomorrow”. Then Sunday would come and he would say “it won’t work today either”.
Now I left, we didn’t say good bye and all I remember is someone holding the door for me waiting for me to cross it after saying “I will call the police”. Can anyone tell me what I did so bad, so wrong to threaten me like this????
The comment “you could be a sociopath trying to kill me while I am peacefully sleeping dreaming of something innocent”. Was there any need to describe? to specify when the killing would be done? “while peacefully sleeping dreaming of something innocent”. Wasn’t it enough with “you could kill me”??? why?
Why am I to be put in a basement??? why am I to receive food and drink from him? Why?
May 8, 2019 at 4:12 pm #52013
I remember feeling the way you do, and I sympathize one million %. This part of the path to healing is particularly horrible. The description you give for where you are at right now is how one would feel after a Tsunami or major earthquake. It is TRAUMA. When we are traumatized we cannot think clearly, we are emotional, we go back and forth in our minds about what happened, how we could have done things differently, and essentially keep asking ourselves “Why ME?!” This is all completely understandable, because what he has done to your heart and mind is every bit as horrific as an natural disaster. It qualifies as genuine trauma.
This is the part where we are in SHOCK. We are by turns numb and disbelieving, and then we are sad and devastated. This shock and devastation will give way to other feelings, thoughts, and actions. But you need to hang on, be KIND to yourself. Try to eat and sleep and just let your body work out some of the damage done to it. If you can take some quiet walks, or do whatever physical activity you like that will help work out some of the high levels of cortisol from your body. Your nervous system is SHOT. It is likely on high alert, and giving you little time to escape your thoughts and feelings. Physical activity can help.
BUT THIS WILL GET BETTER. And the best things you can do to help it get better are treat yourself as well as you can. You need your own love and attention. You need to give yourself CREDIT for being at Lovefraud, and learning about what has happened to you.
You NEED TO REMEMBER YOU DID NOTHING TO DESERVE WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO YOU. This was done to you because of WHAT HE IS, period. Getting you to a different country, locked into renting a new place, buying new furniture; basically turning your whole like upside down, is just the kind of situation that gave him the maximum opportunity to devastate you. He is particularly cruel.
A simple way to look at it is that he took you to the TALLEST building he could find, so that he could push you off and watch you hit the bottom.
Because he is sick.
There will come a time when you will have zero doubts about what he is and what he did. It comes, but it takes time.
Do as much as you can to focus on getting your life back together so you can feel safe, secure, and can heal. If you are so inclined you might try finding someone to talk with. Maybe the resources here on Lovefraud could help you find a therapist in your area.
May 8, 2019 at 4:41 pm #52014
Slimone – do you know the latest? I exchanged a couple of emails with his daughter. She told me her parents are splitting up because of the new woman and that she is not communicating with her father at the moment because of this.
I thought he was moving out, yes but didn’t think he would get divorced just like that for a woman he just met???? I can’t stop thinking how serious he must be about her if he goes to the point of leaving a family of 25 years, a family he told me he wasn’t going to leave, for someone he just met?? This other someone is married too with kids and living in a different city.
I can’t comprehend how someone who was so cruel to me and the strange things he did can be now wonderful to someone else.
May 8, 2019 at 4:48 pm #52015
Drill this into your brain: HE IS NOT BEING WONDERFUL TO THIS NEW WOMAN. He is just setting her up differently than he set you up. They don’t play the exact same game with everyone they meet. EACH BETRAYAL is tailored to the victims circumstances.
With this new woman he is BREAKING UP HER FAMILY. HE IS TAKING HER FROM HER HUSBAND AND WILL ALSO ABUSE HER CHILDREN. HER LIFE WILL BE TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.
He is able to abuse his OWN family, the new woman, AND her family. THIS IS A BIG GIANT WIN FOR HIM. HE GETS TO RUIN SO MANY PEOPLES LIVES.
May 8, 2019 at 5:02 pm #52018
But he is not breaking up her family. I suppose she the same as him wants to end her marriage. She wouldn’t leave if she didn’t want to.
May 8, 2019 at 4:49 pm #52016
P.S. If I were you I would stay away from ALL contact, including his dtr. You could get caught up in more drama if you stay involved. Just my opinion.
May 8, 2019 at 5:01 pm #52017
Slimone – yes, you are right. I shouldn’t stay in contact with anyone related to him. I somehow wanted to find out if what he told me about the new woman was true or maybe he had made it up and the daughter confirmed it. What do you mean by more drama?
When I read your words that he wants to ruin/abuse her family, the new woman and his own family….that sounds so strong….I can’t believe someone would do this intentionally….and I wonder – why didn’t he leave his family before? (well, except for the 2 months he lived with that woman 10 years ago to then return home). Why did he last there 26 years?
May 8, 2019 at 5:45 pm #52019
It has lasted 26 years because he wanted to. It served his needs. It is good ‘cover’, and makes him look normal. Ted Bundy worked at a women’s crisis center. John Wayne Gacy had a wife and family. Some of them are single. Some married. Some are rich. Some are poor. Some are playboys, and some are intellectuals. They all NEED TO CREATE AN IMAGE OF SOMETHING, so they can fit in.
But no matter what the outside “set up” is the behavior is the same: Idolize, devalue, discard.
Some times the idolizing is just some simple flattering comment to a stranger, followed by a slight criticism of their appearance, and then they are done. Or they say they will help you load some groceries into your car, and intentionally drop the bag. Or, they follow too closely in a parking lot, to scare you.
My point is that at every turn, and whenever they can, they do both GREAT AND SMALL things to undermine other human beings. It is what they are hardwired to do. It is the ultimate game of One Upsmanship.
But sometimes the arc of their abuse is long, and with a much bigger betrayal in the end. They can use other people for a lifetime, if they feel it helps them achieve a goal. And, like I said, they often use people to create a cover. I call these people SOCK PUPPETS. They do what the sociopath wants them to do, just like a puppet. They are lied to and manipulated.
His wife was married to him for 26 YEARS, and now he up and leaves her for someone he’s known for around 5 minutes. Think of how confused and devastated SHE must feel. EVERYTHING she thought was real, for 26 years, is just a total lie. He has dumped her like garbage. He has been lying to her for close to 30 years.
You are just one in a LONG line of women that he has done this to.
May 9, 2019 at 4:17 am #52021
But he also did this to her 10 years ago. He moved in with someone (although he didn’t get divorced) for 2 months and then returned home. The wife took him back so I am sure if this already happened she must have known that it could happen again. Surely, she must have suspected of other women. I did and I barely saw him. Imagine if you live with the person. Surely, you can see things. I so strongly suspected last year that he was talking to others (well, talking because I could see him online) but I wouldn’t be surprised he was meeting someone too.
The first message I sent to his daughter (I told her it was regarding his father), she said “I think I can imagine what kind of story it is and if I’m right it’s just going to cause more hurt.” Why did she suspect I could be someone who had been with him if I hadn’t said a word yet? And I wonder who proposed the divorce, the wife or him? I know he was moving out, that is what he said
Yes, I am broken because before at least I had accepted he was staying with his family but now, it is like seeing that all that he told me he would do with me he is doing it with someone else (being a couple, living together, having a serious relationship…..). He convinced me that he was staying with his family and that this was the way it was going to be, that he felt respect and loyalty for her after so many years and that they had many experiences together. Even in November he told me that if he wasn’t committed he wouldn’t let me go, that he would grab a hold of me because I am a keeper……and now I see this….of course, I am broken. It is double betrayal. First, because he made me believe he wanted to be with me to then say he was staying and second because he tells me he will stay with his family when now that is not the case either. I am literally broken. These two reasons plus his treatment towards me, remembering the last time I saw him or half saw him seeing his arms holding the door of that office aggressively like a security guard in a shop or a policeman and me being obliged to cross it like a criminal.
But thing is – just because someone decides to end a marriage and get divorced, is that a reason to be a psychopath?
May 9, 2019 at 8:15 am #52022
Just a couple of weeks after starting talking to him (March 2018) when everything was really really nice, when he would tell me he wanted to spend time with me every day and so on….he calls me on Skype and at the very end of the conversation I wanted to add something else (can’t remember what it was). Suddenly, I saw a horrible, more than scary face, so angry looking at me intensely saying “how many times I have to tell you I have to go before you let me hang up?”. Things were so nice and I remember this day, the exact place where I was talking to him from and I remember feeling frozen, speechless, I felt something going through my body, an intense horrible feeling, wondering what I had done, the kind of fear that paralyses you, when I couldn’t even hang up as I was frozen. I did not sleep all night. What was this? I mean, it is not only the words I heard but those words matching the face he had on camera.
I did not pay attention to comments like “you are vulnerable” just because I asked what he thought of me or “you take this because it is better than nothing” just because I continued with him (well, and he with me) after telling me he was staying with his family. But when he said he was staying I sent him to hell. He proposed to be friends and I said no. Then I simply ask if we could talk about things. He was over the moon, he told me how happy he was to talk to me again, that he liked me so much, that staying with his family had nothing to do with me and yet, he tells me in my face “you take this because it is better than nothing”. I ignored all this, how? how can this be? Months later and I literally mean months later, suddenly one day his sentence pops up in my mind “I would keep you in a cellar and give you food and drink”. I was scared at myself realising he had told me this and I never paid any attention.
When I accepted the job and went to his country to work he was nice to me, so nice, he looked so happy to have me there, the first two days in the office we were alone and he would hug me and kiss me. Once again I had no one and nothing there. I was completely alone, in a new place, with no friends, a new job and I only had him. So I clang onto him because he was so nice to me and on top of that I was vulnerable there (not my land, no friends, no family, nothing)…..when I arrived he asked me what my family thought of me having accepted the job and moving back to his country after I had just left weeks before. Why did he know and was so sure we would meet again? When I left in November 2018 he told me he was certain we were going to meet again. A few weeks later he told me the same on the phone. I simply thought it was more empty words. And then he gives me the job. When I was with him he said “you see, I told you we would see each other again”.
I am scared, my heart bleeds, I can barely stand, at the moment I can only manage to sleep and eat. But Slimone you say he wanted to see me fall from very high, but he gave me a job when I didn’t have one. That is helping me. I took it because I wanted to. He didn’t force me. I left because I decided too. He told me he didn’t want me to leave and in fact he repeatedly asked me to reconsider and think about it and yet at the same time when I heard those words “I would hate not to have you here because I like to work with you and have you around” I thought – I can’t believe those words, I don’t trust him anymore. Initially, I thought “how great!, he really cares and wants me here” but then something inside me told me these were again empty and fake words.
So many times he would tell me he liked me a lot and that he liked spending time with me, yet he barely saw me and met me and when he did it was for a maximum of 2 hours. Where is the liking in there? and spending time with me?
Everytime I asked what he liked about me he would tell me “I don’t like to be prompted” or “I will tell you one day” as he did the last time I was with him in March. Another time he said he was going to tell me something about liking me or missing me (an’t remember exactly) and then he said “I won’t tell you now since you brought up the subject). Last August when I was living in a city 300 Kms away from him and after not seeing each other for 3 months (he always said we saw each other as much as possible……every 3 months for a maximum of 24 hours!!) he told me he would visit me on the 15th of August as it was a public holiday. Then he rectified and said he would come on a Friday and that he thought it was better because we would have more time that way (the full weekend) and that way I would be happy. The time approached and he told me he wouldn’t come on Friday as he himself proposed but on Saturday instead making the visit 24 hours or less. I mentioned that he had said he would come on a Friday and he was so angry at me. He said “you know what? next time I won’t tell you when I come, it is better”. I was terrified about the way he was speaking to me. I was only questioning how come he would come on Sat. when he himself changed the trip to Friday to have more time. Every time I questioned when we would meet he would shut me up, didn’t want to answer, would say “we will have to make a plan” but nothing. I always had to ask when. He never ever would tell me that he was looking forward to seeing me or missing me. Even when we were together I remember telling him that I like him or that I miss him and it was always met with silence.
If he was so careless, if he didn’t give a shit about me, I mean – why was he there? why didn’t he end it? why would he tell me he liked me? why??? he was so rough in most of our conversations. The time I told him that he didn’t seem to take the initiative to call he hung up on me. I sent him messages for hours on end and tried calling him. Nothing, just silence till hours and hours later to tell me that he never hangs up on people but that I push his buttons.
He also asked ” where is the block button on whatsapp to block you? I can’t find it”.
Then on messenger he said: “Can you please tell me how to block somebody on messenger? I never blocked anybody, so I don’t know”
I remember once he was making me so anxious because he denied answering my messages that I could barely breath with anxiety. I told him I didn’t feel well, that I couldn’t sleep at night because of what he did. He would meet all I said with silence. All he said is “if I haven’t answered after 10 messages, what makes you think I will answer after 100?”.
I asked him many times why he had told me all the things he told me at the beginning (that he was falling in love, that he wanted to be a serious couple, live with me, etc…..). He never gave me a reason.
May 9, 2019 at 1:52 pm #52024
He really has your number, huh? He knew just how to hurt you the most. Promise you something, not give it to you, and then turn around and give it to someone else. I am going to say something really blunt: All the details you are writing are not important. None of it is important. None of it will help you solve this pain, or figure him out.
He is a sociopath. All of the outward appearances and situational details do not change this fact. He did ALL the things he did because of his personality disorder. He does all these things to control and hurt other people.
It is your job, your mission, your path to find your way to accept this very unsatisfactory truth. I say this with love and compassion, not judgement. ALL of us here have been through this kind of pain and confusion. To help ourselves out of it we had to begin to accept some difficult facts. Facts that don’t make us ‘feel better’. We accept them and we still feel bad. But eventually this acceptance leads to better feelings, more clarity, answers.
But the deal is you cannot figure him out by using logic. Personality disordered people are not operating from a psychologically logical mindset. They have BAD BRAINS. Their brains don’t work like a normal brain. They don’t produce and use neurotransmitters and hormones the way normal brains do. Parts of their brains are not active (like the part that inhibits our actions, and helps us feel empathy). So the are impulsive and cruel.
You have asked many questions in your last post. I challenge you to answer those questions for yourself. Face the awful truth of what he did to you, and that he is now going to do something awful to lots of other people. He did not love you. He cannot love ANYONE. You are not the first. You will not be the last.
May 9, 2019 at 4:25 pm #52025
Slimone – if someone told me right now that he is a sociopath, then I could kind of accept his behaviour, I mean I would understand somehow or at least I could try to make sense of it. I just seem to have a huge difficulty with acknowledging he is one. I just don’t know if he is one so then how can I make sense of the behaviour you explain that sociopaths have and how their brains work?. Yes, in this guy the impulsivity and lack of empathy you mention are really standing out but still, how do I reach the conclusion that he is a sociopath so that I subsequently try to understand his actions?
Yes, it is sad to read what you write but I do know he did not love me 🙁
I would have thought that if he didn’t have an interest he would have left me alone rather than being there to make me feel so down.
I went out today and I can barely manage. I feel dizzy, extremely tired, my head spins badly. I can barely move.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by hurtingbadly.
May 9, 2019 at 5:37 pm #52027
Around 99% of us don’t get a professional diagnosis that the person who traumatized us in a sociopath. Most of us here educated ourselves (by reading and blogging here, looking at other online venues, or from books), and listened to other folks who had experienced the same kind of inexplicable behavior, and came to understand what happened.
If you choose to suspend your judgement about his mental condition then so be it. You will have to find a different answer for why he is such a monster. I will not be much help to you in regards to some other condition that would explain your situation. I have given you all the insight I have. It may be time for you to begin to educate yourself, and not rely on the opinions of others.
However, even if you decide you cannot identify his behavior as sociopathic I still suggest you start reading about these people so that you can protect yourself from a future entanglement.
I truly wish you all the best Hurting, and hope you find some peace. I will check back to see if you are posting here.
Take care, Slim
May 9, 2019 at 10:38 pm #52033
Hurtingbadly — Slim is 100% correct in everything she has said — you will never know “for sure” whether he is a sociopath, a narcissist, a borderline personality or just a jerk. Sometimes if it looks like a snake and acts like a snake, it is a snake — no matter how much you want to believe it could be anything else. You can tell yourself that maybe this snake is not venomous, that maybe this snake will not bite, that maybe this snake will not act like other snakes – but do you really want to take that chance? Your snake has already shown (by the way he treated you) he IS venomous, he WILL bite, he cannot be trusted…so going over and over his actions will only bring you pain – it won’t change the fact that he is a snake. Problem is – he LIKES being a snake. That’s the only way he knows. That’s how he has lived all these years. And he is just as cold-blooded and deadly as a real snake. Always has been. Always will be.
I know you are in tremendous mental pain and confusion. Your body is telling you (being foggy, tired, head spinning) that you have some serious physical issues too (read up on adrenal fatigue). When you are going through grief, post traumatic stress, anxiety and self blame your body and mind can not be trusted. You are not thinking clearly, you are not feeling well. Please see a doctor to treat the physical symptoms – then find a therapist to help with the mental ones.
I wish you only clear thinking, good health and distance from this pain. It WILL happen. But dwelling on what he did and trying to make sense of it never will. A snake is a snake. Explaining a snakes actions in human terms is futile. You will eventually come to accept the sad reality that what happened happened. None of it was about you.
- This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by emilie18.
May 10, 2019 at 4:31 am #52037
It was simply too much when my mind had accepted it was over, that I would never see him again (that was in November when I came back home). At least, I was sad but I was accepting it. Then him offering this job and having gone back to his country and this time to see him every day in the office, to have him more physically present in my life (the other 8 months after all I saw him very few time when he would come to visit me), living in the same city, experiencing being compared to the new woman, knowing he had been with her, wife and me at the same time, seeing that he only dropped wife and myself when he secured the other woman, being with him on a Monday to be told on a Thursday that we could be friends (I didn’t know what was going on, so confused) and then what he did to me at the office. Only in January and February he looked happy I was there. All the while I was alone, no one to go to to cry, to talk, to be supported. I couldn’t run to anyone after being thrown out like that to get some comfort. The company did not support me either. And at times I wonder, is he feeling sorry at all? for the way he behaved with me in that office? I try to turn the story around and imagine it is me throwing him out like that, knowing he is alone in the country, knowing he has left everything to come here….I simply can’t imagine how anyone could be so cruel, so heartless, I can’t comprehend it no matter what.
I express things here because I can’t keep them inside, it is my head replaying the things he said and did and also because I didn’t seem to pay attention when they happened. I ignored it all. When I look back now I wonder – how could I possibly ignore that someone is telling you they would keep you in a cellar and give you food and drink???? how could I have ignored that? Now I look back and think – that very time when he hung up on me just because I had told him he didn’t seem to take the initiative to call, that very time I should have ended it. I realise only now that I could not talk about anything, question anything. It was always met with disrespectful answers. At the start he would tell me that he really liked me asking questions because he didn’t want me to have any doubts or misunderstandings. Then he used to say he hated my questions. I can’t believe I was treated so badly and I can’t believe I ignored all the behaviour.
May 10, 2019 at 1:21 pm #52043
We ALL ignored the warning signs, and that is why we here on LoveFraud. We came here to learn about personality disorders, how it effects relationships, what ‘part’ we played in the relationship, and how to heal. I found that initial acceptance of what really happened was the most difficult. And when it came so did a lot of new feelings and regrets.
When we find the strength to accept what has happened to us it brings up shame and regret. I think that deep inside we know this and that is why we try to avoid the truth. I certainly didn’t want to feel shameful for being traumatized. But this is another psychological bomb that we are left with after these types of experiences. In a way WE are left with the shame that THEY should be feeling, but aren’t. Because people who are malignantly narcissistic feel NO shame. Their brains are made to bypass this feeling. This allows them to do ANYTHING they want, whenever they feel like it. SO different than you and I.
I found it very helpful to focus on self-compassion and kindness toward myself. I needed to forgive myself for not understanding what was really happening, and not be too hard on myself for ‘cooperating’ in my own abuse. Another thing that helped me release the regrets and shame was to learn everything I could about how people with personality disorders treat other people. And I also found I had to reach deep to find the strength to do what I needed to do to learn and heal. It is not easy.
What I came to understand was that the way I was treated really wasn’t about me at all. It really wasn’t PERSONAL. I remember thinking ‘THIS ISN’T PERSONAL’ over and over. Just reminding myself that he wasn’t after me because of who I am, what I do, what I believe in, or even because of what I would put up with. He was doing to me what he was genetically programmed to do.
We all are who we are because of genetics and upbringing and cultural influences. I don’t really have control over the FACT that I am kind and helpful. I could not kill an animal or a person. I just couldn’t. BUT, I CAN become self aware enough to protect myself if I have to and override my natural tendency toward being open and accepting.
People with high levels of narcissism cannot achieve enough ‘self’ awareness to control their horrible actions. Their brains have defense mechanisms that are completely off the normal scale, making it almost impossible for them to have any kind of emotional and psychological insights. So if they have no personal insight that can change them, and they feel no shame, then they are free to do VERY bad things and not care about it at all. They simple cannot feel bad about themselves.
That didn’t mean I excused him from the responsibility for what he did to me, what he stole from me, and all the lies and manipulations he perpetrated. But I also knew that THAT WAS JUST WHO HE WAS; what he was made of.
Please, please Hurting….do some reading here. I found so much to learn. Look up the authors who have written about their experiences. I particularly loved reading Kathleen Hawks’ series of articles about healing. You can find lots to learn in the archives at the bottom of the page.
May 11, 2019 at 7:20 am #52057
Slimone – I am sorry if I am not making sense of I appear to be somehow stupid or I don’t know what. Whenever I talk to someone, the very few people I can talk to, I am being told or asked why I didn’t leaver earlier? why did I ignore the signs? that is my fault for staying there….and I can’t, I really can’t. I question that myself now as I explained earlier – how with a comment like the one about the cellar I stayed? My belief is that I got hooked to the beautiful things he told me, to what seemed a future together and a comment like the cellar or seeing that horrible face on the camera when he told me “how many times do I have to tell you I have to go before you hang up?” were isolated comments. The beautiful stuff had much more power and my subconscious ignored the rest. I wanted it so badly that I ignored the signs.
Ok, last year for I don’t know what reason I started once again to read about narcissism and psychopathy. Somehow, there were things he did or say that led me to read about it. But many times I thought – ok, maybe I want to label everything as him being a narcissist or psychopath, maybe I am just paranoid thinking everyone is a sociopath/narcissist…so I am not sure. Even now I am not sure.
Why do I have this horrible feeling that I would like to be the woman he is with now? he told me things that were clear he wanted something serious with me, I believed him. Why is he doing with her what he told me would do with me? And then, I try to imagine I am that woman, a woman he would have chosen and I wonder – if someone left a family of 26 years from one day to another without a transition time to think about things alone, to process such a thing as a break up of a relationship of 26 years for someone he has just met, wouldn’t that give me suspicions? wouldn’t it be strange that someone can finish something of so many years for someone completely new without a break in between? to jump from one to another? the same way he told me without knowing me that his heart was mine and that he wanted a serious relationship with me, etc….the same way that was weird, wouldn’t this be weird too? could I trust someone who is capable of leaving everything that fast? without having had the time to process the loss, the separation? Why did he talk to me in terms of replacement? when he said “you are replacement to my current relationship”. Is it normal to talk about replacements? Ok, English is not my native language so I don’t know if these terms are acceptable or normal. The same way recently while in the car he told me “I will throw you out here”. I never heard this “throwing out someone” before. But why does everything he said make me feel like an object? When he talked in terms of “having me”?
I forever wonder – did he lie to me? when I saw him so much online and he would keep saying that he was not talking to anyone, that there was no one else and yet I could see him online so much, especially at the same time as another woman I suspected of…
Why did he throw me out of the office like that? The day before I had told him he is a sociopath and that I was lucky to escape and not be his prey any more, that I was not dependant on him, that he would be the last person I would ever be with, that I knew it was all a power control game, that I am the one who chose to abandon him, that I do not want to see his face again, that I only wanted written communication with him at work till I left, that I would give him the key at the end of April as per my notice period and then he was out of my life forever. Then he said “another text I am not reading and straight to delete so don’t bother”. He added “you can give me your key tomorrow and go to hell”. And the next day he threw me out in the office as I explained.
Slimone – can you explain to me what the signs are that he is a sociopath? the ones that stand out the most? in what he did or say?
May 11, 2019 at 4:24 pm #52058
hurting- You might read the blog Why Sociopaths Can’t Love on the Blog page.
May 13, 2019 at 12:02 pm #52297
It is totally ABNORMAL for someone to say horrible things to someone they say they love and want to be with. No normal man would do this. EVER. My husband has never, in nearly 9 years, said something intentionally hurtful or confusing. Not. One. Single. Time.
When my husband says he is going to do something he does EXACTLY what he said. He doesn’t do something completely different, and then lie about it, or tell me I am crazy. My husband never puts me down. My husband never tells me things that make me feel bad about myself. My husband is 100% trustworthy. Normal men are truthful, transparent, and consistent.
Only BAD men tell you they want to be with you, and then tell you they think you are going to kill them when they are sleeping. Only BAD men tell you they want to lock you in a cellar. Only BAD men leave their wives and children for no obvious reason. Only BAD men ask you to come work for them and then fire you. Only BAD men ridicule, lie, manipulate, gaslight, and harm other people.
You told him he is a sociopath. You KNOW HE IS. None of them want to hear that we know exactly what they are. HOWEVER, if you hadn’t told him he just would have had WAY MORE TIME to ruin your life.
I understand feeling like you wish you were the other woman. It is because you still have not fully accepted that he is BAD, and that he is definitely going to hurt her too. You have a false belief that he treated you the way he did because you deserved it, and that she is probably better than you so he is truly in love with her and is going to be really kind and normal with her. But this is totally not real. It is not true. He is going to do something to her too.
And, by the way, your English is good. Don’t worry about it being your second language….you express yourself very well in English.
May 13, 2019 at 3:02 pm #52300
Slimone – you say: (and please, I am not defending him at all)
“Only BAD men leave their wives and children for no obvious reason. Only BAD men ask you to come work for them and then fire you”.
He is leaving his wife/family for someone he met very recently but no for no obvious reason. That is why I am so hurt – because he did tell me he wanted that serious relationship with me to now see him how he does it with someone else. And he did not fire me at all. I resigned. What he did is send me home for the time I gave my notice. I was meant to work for the full month of April and as some companies do he asked me not to go to the office during that month. I heard some companies do this (I think they call it garden leave). What he did is humiliate me in public because I asked why I had to hand in the key and go just like that from one minute to the next. The day I went to work he sent an email asking me to hand in the key and go. I replied asking the reason why and that is when he fired off to my desk and he did the rest I wrote in my original post…..He gave me the job but he did not take the job away from me. I left because I wanted to. In fact, he asked me to think about it because he did not want me to leave.
I am feeling like I have never felt before. I am completely broken Slimone. There is one question that haunts me – did he do to me all this and behaved with me the way he did just because he was not interested in me? I mean – if he had been interested in me would he have been a nice man to me?
May 13, 2019 at 3:38 pm #52301
Slimone – before the incident in the office one day he had told me at work in front of everyone “I will not repeat this twice” just because I hadn’t understood something he was telling me.
Only days before he threw me out of the office like he did I had written to him the following:
“You would hate not having me in that office you said. I would hate to even look at your face knowing what you are and what you do. You will NOT ever again shout at me, disrespect me, humiliate me or walk out on me. NEVER AGAIN. That day at work when you shouted at me in front of everyone telling me ” I will not repeat this twice”, that very day I should have walked away. Who do you think you are???? A piece of shit, that is what you are. A wolf under sheep’ s clothing.”
Now, I see that what he did with me the last day at work was exactly what I told him I wouldn’t tolerate again.
May 13, 2019 at 4:00 pm #52303
I understand how broken you feel. And I will tell you whatever is broken can be fixed. This will not last forever. I promise you.
THIS IS THE TOTAL TRUTH: “You would hate not having me in that office you said. I would hate to even look at your face knowing what you are and what you do. You will NOT ever again shout at me, disrespect me, humiliate me or walk out on me. NEVER AGAIN. That day at work when you shouted at me in front of everyone telling me ” I will not repeat this twice”, that very day I should have walked away. Who do you think you are???? A piece of shit, that is what you are. A wolf under sheep’ s clothing.”
You have to take a step into the truth that you already know Hurting. There is nothing I can say at this point to help you stay in your truth. And it is normal to KNOW and then DOUBT what you know. It’s part of the trauma of how betrayed you were.
Whether you resigned or he fired you (and I am sorry I got my facts mixed up, sorry) doesn’t matter. The details are irrelevant. The only thing that is relevant in this situation is that no matter WHAT YOU DID, he would still have found a million ways to hurt you. Period.
There is another woman on lovefraud who broke it off with the sociopath that was hurting her. Over several weeks he got her to come back to him. Within 5 minutes he dumped her.
This is why they do EVERYTHING they do: To always have the upper hand. No matter what it takes.
I mean this guy spent WEEKS just to get her to agree to give him another chance. He even said he was sorry, and reported he regretted some of his behavior. Why would he do that Hurting?
It is true that you CAN get away from these kinds of people with a bit less drama if you play it very quietly, and they aren’t too interested in you anymore. I did this with the last guy I knew. I told him it was totally about me, that I just couldn’t do a relationship any longer. I told him I wished him all the best, and that I had loved being with him, but needed to be alone. I never got mad at him. I didn’t confront him. I let him think he was AMAZING. I cried.
Now, in truth, I knew he had slept with up to 8 women the last month. He had been abusive, saying mean things to me. He had taken money from me (I knew I would never see it again). SO, even though I left him, HE WAS REALLY THE ONE WHO LEFT ME. His behavior WAS HIM LEAVING ME. He FORCED the terrible ending. He pushed me until I wouldn’t take any more abuse.
Then he tried to ruin my reputation. AND, then, he tried to get me to be friends with him. I completely blocked him from my life and never communicated with him again.
The man you know ALSO forced the terrible ending. He just made you do the dirty work. This is what they do. If the man you know were a REAL MAN, he would never have done what he did. None of it.
May 13, 2019 at 4:36 pm #52305
Yes, the upper hand was clear to me for the 1st time when I had blocked him last October and after a few minutes he blocked me. Straight away he sent me an email saying “are you angry that I blocked you first before you could block me?”. Right there and then I saw his true colours. I explained to him that I know how the blocking works and that I knew I had blocked him first. Yet, he wanted to convinced me it had been him who did it. Even like that, the first thing that came to my mind is – who cares who blocks first or second? and what is the necessity for you to let me know that you did first? or was he really expressing his own feelings? meaning that he was the angry one because I had blocked him and not the other way around? That time I clearly saw how winning was so imperative for him.
Then one day while exchanging messages in messenger when I wrote to him by mistake he told me in such a cold and calm manner – “how do you block someone here? I have never blocked anyone and I don’t know how”. Then he said “please, block me”. I mean, is this normal? this type of conversation? a 51 year old???
Do you think Slimone that if he had been interested in me he would have behaved differently and I mean better with me? Was all his behaviour because he was not interested in me in particular?
May 13, 2019 at 6:56 pm #52310
THIS IS CALLED GASLIGHTING: “Right there and then I saw his true colours. I explained to him that I know how the blocking works and that I knew I had blocked him first. Yet, he wanted to convinced me it had been him who did it.”
He was trying to get you to question what really happened, and accept his false version of what happened. If you are with a person like this over a long period of time you can be gaslighted SO much that you no longer live in the real world. You only live in the reality they have created for you.
Hurtingbadly…you are asking the WRONG questions. His interest in ANYONE has nothing to do with who the person is. It is ONLY about what they can TAKE from that person. He would not have treated you better if he had been interested in you ‘in particular’. They aren’t really interested in anything about a person. We are like boxes of cereal to them. They are picking us based on what they want that day, that minute. We are not people, we are commodities. Maybe they want our money. Maybe we are respectable, and they want the world to see them as respectable. Maybe we will provide them a home, and they can sponge off of us, and look like a family man in the process. Maybe they want sexual dominance, and we don’t have good sexual boundaries.
These things really have nothing to do with who we are, deep inside, as humans. They are the identities we carry that they want to use to benefit themselves. But make no mistake. They do not treat us well while they are doing this. Instead, they just spend more energy keeping us hooked.
But when you told him that YOU KNEW EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS AND WHAT HE WAS DOING, he knew he could not take much more from you. He didn’t stop “loving” you (they cannot love anyone), he just decided it would require too much of his energy to TAKE FROM YOU.
They are quite lazy, so like the easiest victims they can find. Otherwise it just gets too exhausting trying to manipulate a bunch of women (or men). They may expend a lot of energy one one target, but then have only so much energy left to manipulate their ‘side targets’. So they pick and choose. Their main target maybe has money or prestige, so they will make more of an effort to manipulate this person, so that they can use them.
For instance, the last guy, that I talked about in my last post, was choosing between me and another woman (I later found out he slept with us both, for about a month, before deciding). He told me the other woman said to him that she felt like she was a like a can of fruit, and that he was just deciding which brand of canned peaches he was going to pick. She told him she didn’t want to see him any longer. I was a professional, made lots of money, owned my own home, and had $ to spare. She didn’t. She was a single mom, a ballet dancer, and had very little income. He chose me.
I, foolishly, felt like I won the PRIZE. I felt chosen and loved. But that was not real. He turned out to be one of the worst human beings I have ever met. He was awful to me. He lied about everything, and he did it SO WELL. He had had a lot of practice lying, and was VERY good at it. And he did the same thing as the guy you know. He TOLD ME ONE THING, and did another. He was very inconsistent. As a matter of fact the thing I finally realized was that his lying and inconsistency were the things I could depend on the most. He took A LOT from me. I lost my job (too stressed and crazy to do my job correctly), some friends, and around 25-30,000 dollars.
So you can wonder what it would be like to be the chosen one. I was, and it was a complete nightmare that I wish I had never gone through.
May 14, 2019 at 10:36 am #52320
Slimone – I try hard to see it, believe me but why can’t I? I try to hold on to those answers he gave me, his behaviour and especially the behaviour of the last day at work, which was the last time I saw him. Despite the behaviour he had with me in general I am drawn back to think that he is normal and that he can be nice and that he can act like a normal person. I am drowning. Nothing makes me feel better, nothing helps me to get convinced that he is abnormal or a bad person. I feel pain, literal pain. It is difficult for me to even breathe properly. It hurts, it hurts…
When I came back home in November I was not like this. I was simply sad, very sad but accepting that it was the end and that he was staying at home with his family but this??? what I feel now, I have never felt before. Offering me that job, going back there, seeing him behaving so nicely with me, seeing how he offered me a job when I really needed one, seeing him again and seeing him so happy to have me there to now end like this….how can that be? but it is not like the member you mentioned where the sociopath tried to get back with her for weeks to then drop her in 5 minutes. This guy didn’t drop me. In fact, he wanted me there, he asked me to think about it and not leave but I did. I did leave myself. And I am so scared to regret it, to regret having left the job. I am going insane. I cannot handle so much pain.
I tried reaching Dr. George Simon. I need someone specialised in the subject. I need to tell my story to someone who can help me. I am destroyed.
May 14, 2019 at 12:55 pm #52321
This is what you are experiencing, it is call COGNITIVE DISSONANCE.
“In the field of psychology, cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort (psychological stress) experienced by a person who holds two or more contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values. This discomfort is triggered by a situation in which a person’s belief clashes with new evidence perceived by the person. When confronted with facts that contradict beliefs, ideals, and values, people will try to find a way to resolve the contradiction to reduce their discomfort.” Wikipedia
When what you believe and what you experience are contradictory you become more and more uncomfortable and confused. This is part of what happens after an experience with someone who completely misrepresents themselves and totally lies to us.
May 15, 2019 at 8:15 am #52338
Is this strange? While working with him I saw he had two folders in his work computer – one on the desktop and another one in a different place of the woman he moved in with years ago. The one with whom he lived for 2 months and then returned home according to him because of the children.
One of the folders contained naked pictures of her and him. This woman was still on his facebook as a friend. I noticed that last year she deleted him of facebook. Then I told him and he seemed to not have noticed it. He talked to her about it. For the next 3 months she was still not his friend on facebook. Then she added him again.
He also charged the company for the hotel and mileage when he travelled to visit me when we first met. He pretended to visit a customer.
May 17, 2019 at 4:49 am #52452
I am trying to post and I can’t. I get an error
May 17, 2019 at 10:41 am #52463
Hurting- Have you found a therapist you would like to see?
May 18, 2019 at 12:51 pm #52476
I can’t post
May 18, 2019 at 12:51 pm #52477
I don’t think I can find anyone in my area that will understand this. I feel I can’t any more. I don’t know where to go or what to do. I also lost my job so I can’t spend the amount of money therapists and psychologists charge. I am very depressed. I really am. Sorry for the ranting but I feel I need to get it out of my system.
All the replies I get are – he was married so why did you get involved? I can’t kill myself for having made such mistake. I believed him when he said he was serious about me.
May 18, 2019 at 4:04 pm #52478
In my opinion, it is not good to get involved with someone who is married but it happens. He lied and pretended to care. Psychopaths do that. You need healing. Blogs on recovery here can help. I guess you are in Europe. You might try prayer for healing at http://www.tbnuk.org. If you are now without a job, you’ll probably be looking for a job. Good luck.
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