By | November 26, 2010 90 Comments

From paradise to starvation

With her life’s savings of £200,000, Virginia Owen set out to live her dream in the Dominican Republic. There she fell in love with a charming Swedish expat named Hans Michel Magnusson. Four years later, still sharing an apartment with Magnusson, she died of starvation.

Read How could this greedy charmer let our daughter starve to death? in

Read Why did well-off divorcee Virginia Owen, who headed to the Caribbean to start a new life, die in penniless squalor? in

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Media sociopaths

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Ox Drover

You know, I’ve heard some horror stories, but this pretty much is the cherry on top of them all. And, I don’t doubt that Virginia may have actually had a parasite (I spent too much time in 3rd world countries to doubt it) or even that she spent too much time in a bar drinking….with what she was living with, and the “shame” I imagine she felt at her parents being “right” about her “lover’s” intentions of living on her money, may have actually inclined her to not to want to admit to them that they where right about him….the fact that she did not get “bed sores” or in that condition over a matter of a few days or even a few weeks, and that her “lover” probably wrote those e mails to her parents assuring them she was well, when in fact, she was dying, to me means that this man could only have been one of the most EVIL OF THE EVIL ones, a “level 30+” psychopath.

Who on earth could watch a dog starve to death if not a psychopath? Who on earth could watch a human being starve to death except a complete psychopath?

And probably the “authorities” will do nothing about it.

I emotionally bleed for this poor woman, for the pain, the shame and the sorrow she must have felt at realizing that her parents were right.

The story only proves to me though, that victims in denial even when they are warned, will fight admitting the truth because it is so painful, so shameful to them, to realize that they have been devalued by those they love.

If nothing is done to punish this man on this earth by the authorities, I can only hope there is a “hot spot in hell” for him eventually. God rest this poor woman’s soul!

I can’t even imagine how much pain it must have cost this poor family to publish the photo of their dying sister/daughter, but I hope that it does wake up some other victims or potential victims to what extent a psychopath can go to BECAUSE they do not value anyone except themselves. No pain in another is deep enough or visible enough to move them. They have NO HEART, NO CONSCIENCE AND NO LOVE.


This one really hit home for me. I met my s. at a tourist spot in the Florida Keys. In “Without Consicience” Dr. Hare lists tourist spots as one of the places sociopaths hang out at, because of the endless supply of new victims and i believe their relative “anonymity” I too fell head over heels, he was handsome and well built. he was 44 but, didn’t appear over 35 (i even asked for his lisence to verify his age). We began a long distance romance, as i was from NY. We went on two cruises together, visited various parts of Florida(never his hometown-flag), he came to NY etc…He appreared down on his luck (flag) and I felt that if I could help him get his life back on track(flag). He had no steady source of employment or monetary means(flag, flag). He had told me he was a former Marine and served in the Gulf War(later, i learned he was a Marine but, never served in any war). I believed he suffered from PTSD..all the signs were there; hypervigilance, paranoia, ocd and as bad off as he was felt i couldn’t turn my back on him, or abandon him. His behavior was definitely of question and I know something was not quite right but, I couldn’t put my finger on it. I helped him with money and expensive car repairs. His family was all in Germany (flag) and every girl he was ever involved with was a psycho, he said (flag). He told me when he was angry enough at them he would just not answer the phone again (flag), that was my warning to behave accordingly..and I did. It is all so clear now but, the article below “How a Sociopath messes with your mind” describes it in a nutshell. After “grifting” me for several thousand dollars and me unable to move there because of my children, and him unable to tolerate NY people and weather (flag), my end was in sight. I began to catch him in little lies, that were of no signifigance(flag). Why would he even lie about such a thing?? Well, the discard was sure to follow. He visited me here in NY and his truck broke down. I applied for a loan for him to purchase a new truck but, thankfully was unable to get a loan. I put his car repairs on my charge. He told me he was going to stay if I had helped him and he would work with my brother for about $800 a week and pay me back. He needed to go to Florida to register his truck there as not to lose his residency. He went to Florida, only he told me he never would return to NY. I freaked out. I called his mother to verify information and got in touch with a former girlfriend. Everything I thought was true was a lie. I was dumbfounded…yes, in pain, humiliated, embarassed..that’s when i found this site. I didn’t want to believe he was a sociopath. He was so charming and sweet at times(flag), providing intermittent reenforcements. My savior was that 3 months after I met him I began therapy…and continue to this day. We had stayed in contact for about a year after that. I didn’t give him money, or help him with anything. During that year, I learned so much about him that I knew exactly who/what I was dealing with. Each time he exhibited a trait, I saw it for what it was. I caught him in lie upon lie; where he worked, where he lived, if he was with anyone..all lies..I think he didn’t want me to discover these things in case I decided to take him to court, which I had threatened to do. The last lie, I told him “Don’t call me anymore”..he knew I was at my limit, because I would block his number for days at a time with each discovery. He said “I hate you for this(discovering the truth). You c*&t. I am never going to talk to you again. I should have never called you back. Tonight I am going to get drunk and forget all about you, Have a nice life”. I said “Ok, I love you” and that was it. His phone had been turned off for about a month already (he would call me from pay phones)so, I was unable to reach him. I blocked all the numbers he ever called me from and all restricted, private and unavailable numbers. That was four months ago. Recently we both had tried to contact each other, neither one of us answering the other(all for the best) and I wish I never broke the “no contact’ rule, because all it did was rehash the painful events that i had been traumatized by. I am in touch with his ex, we both talk about our experiences. I have learned so much about him; that he has a son, he has nothing to do with and has never seen, that he tased her during a fight, that he broke up her marriage moved in with her and week after he did, moved out basically destroying her life. I consider myself luck. I dodged a bullet. What if I had moved down there? What would my life be now. Yes, I am still paying the credit card bills and it is a painful reminder of all the things he took from me; my dignity, my self respect, my sanity, my emotional and physical well being and my money. Had I not found this site, had I not searched for the truth, maybe I would have ended up dead and penniless, who knows? This poor unfortuntate woman, punshed for loving someone..they use our love as a weapon against ourselves.

Ox Drover

Dear Bewildered,

Welcome to LF! Sorry that you had to have such a horrible experience but glad that since you did, you found this site. Glad also that you are in therapy to help you work this out. We can’t change them, we can only learn from our mistakes in believing their lives.

They prey on people as victims, and they are the worst predators on earth. We know sharks are dangerous so we try to avoid swimming when there are sharks in the water. We know lions and tigers are dangerous so we avoid places they will be, and if we SEE them, we run away. With psychopaths they look so much like a human (at first) that we dont’ recognize them as predators! Now you are learning to recognize human predators! Good for you. Stick around, read allt he archived articles (by subject and author as the monthly ones only go back a year) and learn about psychopaths, and use your therapy to learn about yourself. It helps! KNOWLEDGE IS POWER! Take back your power! Again, welcome. and God bless.


Thank you for the welcome. It’s not a “club” I had ever hoped to be part of. I have been reading since May 2009, the first time the s. turned his phone off and I went scrambling as to why just one day someone would simply choose not to talk to someone they supposedly loved. “The silent but deadly treatmet” as Steve Becker would say. I just really never post. I guess typing it out and having to see it there in black and white is kind of having to regurgitate it, something not very pleasant to do. I wish after the first time he turned his phone off I had the wherewithal to not contact him again. I really was so crushed and had no concept of what I was dealing with. I know that he will never change and I have given up trying to change him. He is truly a sick, sick man. The chameleon I saw in the beginning is gone. He will “host” off other tourists in the Florida Keys, where he lives in a trailer there. What the message is here, as with this poor woman is be careful when you are on vacation, or by yourself in a strange, or new place. I was duped. I fell for someone who never existed and learned a very painful and expensive lesson. He didn’t break me, though. I use any information I have learned and share it with others. I have learned much about myself as to why I continued to let him have such a control and hold over me. This site definitely creates awareness to victims of sociopaths and without it and other resources available on the net, I don’t know how far along I would be in the recovery process.

super chic

bewildered66, I’m glad you posted and I really liked how you put (flag) by each lie, I personally have a box full of flags I ignored, or over my lifetime… I have a room full of flags!!! I’m not ignoring them anymore!! We all learn from your experiences. Maybe somebody reading right now is going through the same thing.


Hi SC,
I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving!
So you have one of those rooms full of flags also?? Mine is starting to pour into room#2!!! LOLOLOL. Unfortunately each one of these flags represent another scar on us of some sort or another. I think I am going to clean those flags out open the windows in that room and let some fresh air and sunshine in. BUT…. the darn motion detector is going to be on in case an spath tries to put another flag in there!!!!


Welcome, sorry you are here. This is the BEST place to gain knowledge to be able to heal and recover. Thank God you didn’t give everything up and move. I made the mistake of doing that and I lost everything. I am in a good place right now though. I will be OK.
Hang in there Sister!

super chic

Hi ntcrzee1 !!! Yes, TG was nice, how was yours?
I know, the flags, jeez, it hurts to think about them.
The motion detector is a good idea!!! LOL


Hi, everyone. I’m another longtime lurker. I’m also the one who told Donna about this story.

Virginia’s story hit me very hard, but not because I went through anything even close. I’m alive, obviously, but my story isn’t even as bad as most of yours. I didn’t live with, marry, have kids with or get swindled out of money by my S’path. It hit me because I Was. That. Blind. I defended him to the hilt, told people (including perfect strangers who saw him for the b*stard he was) that he was just misunderstood, that the behavior they witnessed was before he got treatment for his mental illness, etc. etc.

Also, many of the comments posted on the news sites where this story ran have an undercurrent — sometimes not even “under” — of blaming the victim. Not so much “She deserved it” as “She should have known better” or “She didn’t really die of starvation, she had liver cancer, and she brought that on herself by drinking too much.”

They did find liver cancer on autopsy. But regardless of the true cause of death, which may never be known, that doesn’t excuse the fact that he refused to get her medical attention. And so what if she drank? It was probably (a) to dull the pain of realizing that this guy she invested *everything* in had turned into Mr. Hyde, and (b) a desperate attempt to reforge a connection — after all, going to the bars was his hobby.

If this monster had done to a child, or an animal, what he did to Virginia, he’d be in jail or dead now. But because she was an adult, she should have known better. People who say that don’t realize how powerful the hold of an S’path can be.

That’s why I want everyone to know Virginia’s story. So they will understand how an adult — even a smart, middle-aged adult who has it together — can fall so completely under the S’path’s spell.

Donna, thanks for posting it. OxDrover, Bewildered, SoImNot and ShabbyChic, thanks for reading.

Ox Drover

Dear Lady,

I will not call you “bag lady”—I don’t call “chic” By “shabbychic” either! LOL

Thank you for bringing this to donna’s attention. I have sent her articles for the past few months on various psychopathic stories in the news and she has posted them. While most of these newsworthy psychopaths are on the HIGH END of the scale, I am in agreement with you that this poor woman’s problems, whether she drank or not, and whether she had liver cancer or not are BESIDE THE POINT, no one who wasn’t a psychopath would let a DOG lie in its own filth and get bedsores from not being moved and turned (I am a retired advance practice nurse) and the PAIN that woman was in had to be horrible. Physical and emotional as well as mental.

I hope this man gets what’s coming to him, but just like the “meth ‘ho” who is mooching off an elderly neighbor of mine, he is 82, and he isn’t senile–his judgment isn’t good (he is also giving money to a Haitian Scam artist) and it is like my own egg donor…they aren’t legally “incompetent”–they still know who the president is, who the governor is, what day of the week it is, what year it is, and THAT IS ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW TO QUALIFY AS COMPETENT. That is all you have to know to be responsible for the consequences of your own choices.

It isn’t against the law to be gullible, or against the law to not get out of bed every day. It also generally isn’t against the law to do what he did to her—ignore her while she was in the throes of pain and death. Especially in a place like they lived.

Sure, Virginia made some bad choices, but I DO understand why she made some of them, I think. The shame she must have felt in having her parents proven “right” that he did not love her, etc. Dulling her senses with booze to cut out the emotional pain. There but for the grace of God, go I. That’s for sure. Thanks for posting the notice to Donna, Lady, and glad you are here.


You’re welcome to call me whatever you’re comfortable with, but just so you know, I didn’t choose my screen name to put myself down in any way. I’m a morris dancer (Google it) and “bag” is a morris dance term. I am the bag for my morris side, and I am female … hence the “lady.” I do know the other meaning of “bag lady,” but I don’t consider it a put-down. I don’t even refer to actual bag ladies (homeless women) by that term. I use it for myself with great affection, and you are welcome to do the same.

Thanks for being here. In my long period of lurking I have especially appreciated your insightful posts.

Hugs, BL (or just L if you prefer!)


Poor Virginia had a parasite alright – just not the one the doctors found. I’m still crying after reading this. Tragic stuff.


Hugzz Aussie!
You are correct about the parasite. That story is so sad. Her family cared so much but the humilliation of making a wrong decision poor Virginia couldn’t accept. Thank God I got away from xspath when I did.


Notcrazee: Hey you! What time is it where you are? It’s just after 11am here in West Oz. x


Hey Aussie!
It’s almost 11:00 pm Friday night here in Florida US.


Wow! How bizarre all of this modern technology is….makes me feel soooooo old. Weird that we can talk in “real time” without a telephone, but I suppose our grandparents thought that THAT was weird too.

How are you today/tonight?

I had a great week: a win over the spath in court on Tuesday (had a very savvy court judiciary officer who was on to him…he,he..) and got the “all-clear” on Thursday about a breast lump I’ve been worrying about for the past 2 years since some idiot doctor misdiagnosed it. I’m tired and I’m unwell (from the Fibromyalgia I have) but I’m on a high otherwise! xx


PS: Why aren’t you in bed you naughty girl?


It may be 11:00…. but I’m not that naughty!!! LOLOL Aussie.
Thank God the breast thing is OK with you. I just went through that myself a couple of months ago. WHEW!!! That’s scary. I have the radiologists report that says no sign of cancer and I want to frame it and hang it on the wall. Considering my mom was a breast cancer survivor! It’s not genetic… she was on that old hormone replacement therapy for years that gave it to her. She went through that in 1990.
Congrats on your court win! Sorry about the fibro…. my sister had that for a long time… I will have to ask her..(if she has time for me) what finally helped her.
Thanks for sharing!


PS> AUSSIE…. enjoy your high!!!!!


hello to all,

I’m just appalled, heart broken at the demise of this poor woman. It really looks like what a psychopath would “allow happen” or cause to happen or to ignore happening….one of the three (all psychopathic)

You know of course he has her money, of course he does not care, of course he left her dying if not was the cause of her dying…

If I had gone to live with the P in his country of Origin I have no doubt I would have been neglected, robbed and emotionally destroyed by what is a uniquley sociopathic process that leaves you dying
heart goes out to her in her dying moments…..

that “partner” of hers is a psychopath, she could not admit it…we need to acknowledge that WE did acknowledge it, admit it and found our way back to health

she died…Rest in peace precious angel, if only you knew us here at lovefraud, you might have realised falling on love can be the most dangerous act unless you have support…wish I could have been there for you….not your fault….innocent ….and we truly know this

super chic

Hi bulletproof. Yes, this is a horrible story, what you wrote is so sweet. Good to see you here.

Ox Drover

Yes, BP, very sweet! Good to see you back! Hope you are well! (((hugs)))


evil. the man is evil. what these people do breaks my heart. if i stop and think about what my spath does, it too, would break my heart. but she doesn’t get to break my heart; she can just piss off.


Hi there. Long time since I’ve written, but I have been reading regularly. Oxy’s point above about the courage of this family to post the sad and horrific picture of Virginia to prevent this from happening to others is well put. The fact of the matter is: if he loved her he would not have ignored her needs (serious medical attention) to satisfy his own (bar fly). When I first came on here I thought I was so strong. I have had a couple of experiences in the last month where I doubt my choice as my divorce court date approaches. I read last night and found some strength. I did not call him and ask him all the why questions I had been lamenting about all day and longer. Halleluja!!! I had a wonderful dream last night and am feel like I am returning to myself inch by inch.

Do you think they so entrench people, drawing in their families (or created by their families) that they are protected and condoned in their sickness? I see his whole family as complicit in his game now. It has hurt to make this realization. They excuse his behavior because he is using damage control now, kissing up to them and putting me down. He is so manipulative. My next job is to give them no space in my heart and head. I look forward to the days when I don’t have them in my life. When I have some distance. When my head is free of them. Peace to all.


One more thing…Matt and Oxy commented in 2009 about a book something about women and toxic relationships. If anyone can recall the title &/or author I would appreciate it. <3

Ox Drover


I can recom,mend several, one is “Stalking the soul”–it is out of print but you can usually find it on Amazon or B&N—USED ONLY, and compare prices sometimes they want big bucks for it. This book is GREAT! I have a library full of books about toxic people and how we recognize them, and avoid them, and how we heal from them. The ones in the LF library are a good start, and there are great articles here with book reviews on various books to help us learn. READ READ READ, I think we need to continue to learn.

That’s why I’m still here at LF, I learn new things, new insights about the same old story…new insights about me EVERY DAY. The ROAD TO HEALING is paved with learning, and the more learning we have, the smoother the pavement is. The easier and faster we can travel.


Thank you, Oxy 🙂


Oxy, Shabbychic

I’m never far from lovefraud, I look in regularly. I have been very busy at work also (thankfully) great to see old familiar posters still relating and engaging with this ever more important subject..hugs to all, still feel as if I know you all well and I think we are a very blessed bunch, still standing and blowing the whistle!

Love to everyone, and new comers

that you come here at all is blessed,
that you survived at all is sensational…
every breath we recover, every step is a painful new contract…to survive and get through this
no matter what,
to get back to the person we used to be and more…xxx

Ox Drover

Dear BP!!! Glad you are at least out there lurking! Love Oxy


Sad story, incredible how this spath can get away with it, bet he cried all the way to the bar! What a terrible way to die, how sad and lonely she must have been. They isolate you so much so probably didn’t want to go to her family for help because he poisoned her against them.

Maybe it’s my age that’s showing but is the world going to heck in a handbasket? I also seem to be getting desensitized to these stories because they don’t shock me as much as they should. It’s like I have believed the unbelievable, now I believe any amount of evil is possible.


Evil does not come with horns and a tail. If it did, we would recognize it and run away. Evil comes with sweet words that we are all yearning to hear. Evil is like crystal meth, the Jonestown Kool-Aid, or the fortified wine that they sell for cheap to winos on Skid Row. It’s is sweet, powerful and oh, so addictive. We don’t realize until it is too late how deadly it is.

If you have been moved by this story, please spread it. Post a link on your Facebook account if you have one. E-mail it to your friends who continue to ask, “How could you have fallen for his lies? What are you, *stupid*?” We know we aren’t stupid. We know how addictive the words of the s’path can be.

I think it was Oxy who posted on another thread about how family and friends can be so likely to blame the victim … because the alternative is to acknowledge that they, too, could be victims.

Those of us who are alive and participating on this forum are the lucky ones. Virginia Owen is not. Let us continue to spread the word, not just to support one another, but to tell the world at large that these monsters exist and we are *all* vulnerable.

Hugs to you all, BL


Did you read some of the comments following this story? Makes me sick how people have lost touch with their humanity. “SHE CHOSE this and him.” one woman wrote. Really? That someone CHOSE this outcome? We already have a section about that subject. She didn’t choose what he turned out to be. She chose what he pretended.

Really, people who are “Normal” can be incredibly disgusting in their contempt for VICTIMS.


Baglady and Katy
It’s true that evil disguises itself and most people just don’t see it as well as we “veterans ” do.
But I wonder how many peeps here on LF, can read this article and spot the evil one.
At first it slipped by me, but this is the pattern that I’ve been researching most recently so it popped out. The comments at the end are the clue.

Ox Drover

Dear Skylar,

Unfortunately I think many schools from grade school to PhD programs have “dumbed down” the teaching so no one is “left behind” or “has their self esteem crushed”—-back in the OLD days when I walked to school up hill both ways in the snow barefoot, we had to actually DO WORK in class…even in college, and in English classes in college we had to write papers outside of class, but we also had to do one IN CLASS…so the prof could tell if you were doing any of your own work or not by how you did in class.

But I also saw students when I went BACK to college who were practically ILLITERATE….and so many kids now that get A’s in HS and then have to have “remedial” classes to learn fractions before they can go on to higher education. Yea, I think there will always be a WAY TO CHEAT…but nothing happens to people who get caught cheating in college except THEY GO ON TO THE US SENATE …..okay, I’m off my rant.

Thanks for the link, interesting.


Your link is further evidence that nothing seems to matter anymore. When I become aware of SO MUCH EVIL, I feel overwhelmed with it. No integrity. Excuses. So much cheating that only fools have integrity? I withdraw into my little shell and start searching for people with a moral compass. Sorry to say, they are far and few between. Question myself a lot. Really, what is the benefit of honor/morality/integrity? They are obstructions to success.

Do you want to know who came out ahead? My husband. In money, friends, comforts, opportunities, support, love, lovers, care, kindness, on and on.

I am alone, untrusting, unemployed, friendless, alone alone alone, near poverty, old, sick, sick, sick, and unemployable. That’s the truth. I fight the truth. Trying to prove that I am not the loser that I was made out to be. But so far, they’ve been right. I don’t think I will survive much longer. The stress has ripped my immune system and I live on savings that are nearly gone, so there is no money for medical help. If ya want to back a winner, pick my husband.

Not saying this for pity. Just talking truth. After all, we’re the ones shattered. They’re on to the next party.


katydid – and prove them wrong you will, with next to nothing, because all we have are our moments of will and hope. please post more. let people here lend you strength to endure, one day at a time. You must endure, and touch those moments of hope – that is all we have sometimes.

post piece by piece – let us help you sort through this horrible mound of crap you are being threatened by. or post a big whack of the problems, and let people help. I may be younger that you are (50), but your list is my list. I had a hard weekend, in so much pain I couldn’t move yesterday…but this last hour, i feel just a pinch of okay. and that’s all i have today. and i am going to grab on to it.

i am not a prayer – but i do make wishes for people; and just now i asked for a break for you, some movement, some toehold, to change things.

all my best,
one step


one step,
thank you for your encouragement. but really I am okay with my lot. i told my husband once, and meant it, that i’m better off homeless and alone than married to him.

nevertheless, i am aware that while I work to heal from his “love”, his worst dilemma is chosing which party from all his invites.

it’s just reality.


You HAVE won, you maintained your Integrity despite what you’ve seen And lived through.
Look at the author of the article, dante. He is the evil one. the narcissist.
When he arrived as a freshman in college he decided he was too good to do the school work. he was smarter than his own teachers so he decided to create his own curriculum. for his curriculum he would write the great american novel I’m sure it was all about him. this is the perfect example of a narcissist wanting to usurp authority. And like lucifer when he didn’t get his way he would rather rule in hell than serve in heaven. It wasn’t hard to find the holes in a corrupt system Where he could worm his way into luring others to cheat the system.
He takes no responsibility, he blames the system, and finds people willing to agree with him because he uses a partial truth to divert attention. Besides, did you notice how clever and likeable he is? So far we have pity and charm…what other red flags? He has disdain for his clients, he portrays them as stupid and the examples (which he provides) support that. But he mentions ESL as a possible cause, so now he is blaming foreignors (the outsider makes a great scapegoat).
Lastly, did you notice the uproar in the comme nts section? The P likes to stir up angry emotions as he slithers away….


Ahhh. the Instigator. Yes, that is one facet of my husband’s personality. He loves to instigate and then sit back and watch the drama. Puppet master! But, when he did it to me, he was caught in the drama. He HATED that b/c he wants to control. Being IN the drama makes it hard to control the drama.

Also I used to think he wanted people’s approval. It seemed so. And if so, then I could conclude that he perceived SOME people as superior to him. WRONG. The truth was that approval was a type of thermometer to him, if they approved, then he knew he controlled and dominated them. He didn’t seek approval after all. He was looking for a measure of how much superior control he had.

Yes I am aware that I “won” b/c I am the one he couldn’t control. But it’s hard to remember that kind of win when he’s enjoying such wonderful accolades and success.


katydid – i am not okay with your lot. i understand acceptance, but i also understand losing hope and being beaten. i am not so far from the street and i damn well don’t want to go there. it would kill me. You deserve so much more than him, than that.

accolades and success – but, soulless none the less.

Ox Drover


I agree that sometimes they SEEM to be skating off into the distance in plenty and happiness…but you know…I realized finally that my P sperm donor was anything except “happy” even though he had finally succeeded in becoming fabulously wealthy and getting national and international press and attention, but he was FAR from satisfied or happy…he was still EMPTY and filled with WRATH and RAGE and HATE…and even in his last will and testament he had to reach out and slash at me and two of my other half sibs by “leaving us out” of the will—and I also realized that I didn’t want his money—it was BLOOD money and if he had (which of course he never would have) left me $10 million dollars or $100 million, I would not have spent a dime of it, but would have donated it to some cause he would have hated! Even my egg donor wanted me to go after the estate, but I realized I didn’t want to….even if I could have won I didn’t want to have anything to do with him. She didn’t understand that…and maybe a lot of people wouldn’t.

As far as people with moral compasses being few and far between, I think you are right there. But still, I would rather have a moral compass and live in a card board box and eat out of a McDonald’s dumpster, than to eat the “bread of unrighteousness” and EVIL.

I also think the guy in the article is just as Sky described him. He is justifying his own evil behavior, his own profiting from other people hiring him to do their cheating…and feeling superior to them because his “English” is better than theirs. Notice he also “classifies” them into groups that are “less” than he is, making him of course superior to them. Also he ridicules the profs for not being able to “catch” the students at their cheating.

Katy, having at one time been homeless myself, and another time living in my RV hiding in fear of my life…I can somewhat relate to the fear of financial disaster, but at the same time, I also realize that NOTHING material, including having roof over my head defines ME. I know I had strength I didn’t even realize I had until called upon to use them. I have confidence you and One also do! My prayers for you both! (((hugs))))


I prayed to St. Michael, the archangel that kicked Lucifer out of heaven and into hell. Miracle’s were provided. I think to myself, “skylar, how can you believe in these bed time stories about angels and demons? You are so logical and rational? believing in God is one thing, but these stories?” Yet, how can I deny the amazing things that occured when I prayed?
The cops on Camano Island were chasing me around at the behest of my xP. I gave them the slip, but couldn’t find a way off the island without being seen. I was desperate, and ended up in front of a house with a snohomish county sheriff’s car. I was in Island County, so I thought, “cool, this guy will save me” What I didn’t know is that they are all friends. But when I knocked on the cop’s door, no answer.”
Desperate, I called the FBI. The guy who answered thought I was a lunatic, but kept talking to me anyway. Suddenly, the door at the house opened. A guy came out and I said, “are you a sheriff’s deputy?” He pointed at the car and said, “Can you read? SNOHOMISH COUNTY SHERRIF? Now get off my property!”. I was still on the phone with the FBI and said to the FBI agent, “did you hear that?” The agent said, “let me talk to him” So I looked at the cop and said, “I have the FBI on the phone, they want to talk to you.” The mofo, turned around and ran back into his house. Never came back out. When I drove out of the neighborhood, the cop that had been stalking me was gone. St. Michael strikes again. None of this was planned on my part, all just fell in my lap. I take no credit.
I have another similar episode. Unreal how easy the spaths are to frighten with the right words.


Hey Oxy/Skylar/OneStep
I didn’t mean to say that I was homeless. I’m not… yet. I have my little house in the big woods. But I did say that I’d rather be homeless and alone than with him b/c as awful as that would be, homelessness was an improvement on the quality of my life with him.

I have my problems. It’s hard b/c to reveal b/c the truth sounds so whiney and I am really not interested in pity (this post sound so manipulative – like what he’d say to motivate people to hate me – that I have erased/edited out most of it.) I wanted direction, instructions, advice to get past what he did to me. But time has run out. It’s catch 22 time for me. Bottom line, I look for reality and goodness and peace of mind. I am comforted that I have that part right.


the spaths leave us in financial predicaments. thousands in debt. If he had asked me to cut my left arm off during a pity ploy, you bet, I would’ve done it. nothing was too much to ask for my baby. Thank God, he never asked that, never realized how much under his spell I was. He only asked for money and I had credit cards. So now I pay and pay.
At least I have both arms.
When I left him, I was devestated. 25.5 years down the drain – how do I regain that? My youth was gone. My answer was to learn as much as I could from that experience. So that is what I’m doing. Now I’m realizing that all people who experience trauma, are experiencing disintegration. When your view of the world breaks down, you have to re-build it, stronger and better. That is the purpose of evil. To make us stronger. have faith that you will be stronger better and more resilient. Don’t cry for your innocence, anymore than you would cry for who you were when you were 3 years old. You want to grow up, the spath doesn’t.


You are being a treasure. I am not being immature or refusing to take responsibility for myself. I am not a quitter (why I stayed too long in my marriage!). I have cried for my gullibility but stopped that when I realized some truths. I am practical. I’ve assessed my situation and made peace with myself.

My Spath gifted me with an incurable std, which has progressed into cancer. The stress from my life with him caused a small stroke. It also caused chf (congestive heart failure). The fact is, I will not be stronger. My body will get weaker. Stress doesn’t just make us feel bad or depressed. I am the example of what stress can do.

I am glad that for you, evil has a purpose. I happen to disagree with that view. I believe evil exists for its own purpose. We can move past it, but I didn’t need to endure evil in order to become stronger. Bad things can happen to provide life lessons without evil being any part of it.

I screwed up, plain and simple. When I was in the fog of depression, I failed to see the outcome. I thought that if my husband saw how much he was hurting me, he’d stop. WRONG thinking! Instead he used my depression as an excuse, to get approval for why he was contemptuous of me. People agreed that if there wasn’t something wrong with me to begin with, then nothing he did could cause depression. And I agreed. I searched my inner self for what must be wrong b/c then I’d get better. But I only got better when I left him. I only left him b/c all the contempt and ridicule that I deserved what was done to me just made me feel like I wanted to die. At the time, leaving made me feel like a failure. I didn’t FIX my problem. I ran away from it. I felt like a coward. Turned out to be the best thing ever.

I’ve done well since I left. I’ve hidden from him so he can’t get to me, and put in security backups just in case. I have a little house, a place of my own, with my little comforts. I volunteer two hours a week with a great group of people. I read, I do research online, I listen to music. I am rebuilding a relationship with my daughter. I found my humanity again. I have my connection to God. I assessed my situation and accepted it. Accepting is not childish. It’s not the behavior of a three year old. It is the inner knowledge that I have done the best I could at each moment in my life and I am connected to my humanity and to God. I am at peace.

Ox Drover

Dear KatyDid,

Your post above is VERY MOVING and I hear a deep and profound inner strength in you that in spite of your health problems probably progressing as you become older (it will happen to us all sooner or later! No one lives forever) the strength you have shines through that. The acceptance of WHAT IS NOW is also a good place I think to be.

I too have spent years under intense and heavy-duty stress, questioning myself and why I couldn’t fix the situation(s) and harmed by body, my immune system and myself with the effects of continual and high intensity stress, but like you, I have found a satisfaction in my life NOW though I am not physically what I was years ago, and am not likely to be, but I am taking care of myself physically now, eating well, losing weight, quit smoking, etc. and increasing my spiritual connection to my God, and my emotional connection to those that actually and truly love me. WOW! What could be better? I actually can’t think of anything that would be better unless I had a “magic wand” and could turn back the clock and still keep the knowledge, experience and wisdom I’ve gained during all the turmoil. LOL

QUOTE “Accepting is not childish. It’s not the behavior of a three year old. It is the inner knowledge that I have done the best I could at each moment in my life and I am connected to my humanity and to God. I am at peace.”

WoW, that is profound! Good for you, Katy!~!! (((Hugs))) and my prayers for your continued peace and growth!


Dear Katydid, when I kicked the ex spath hole out, he slandered me to friends, families, doctors…whatever numbers in my phone book he could find. He then started stalking me online and by calling an elderly neighbor and used her to get info on me.

I developed PTSD…lost most of my hair, and gained 30 pounds from stress. Stress is terrible. It seemed no one would believe what he did to me.

Now my hair is back (always was fine baby hair anyway), I’m losing the weight, and I am getting home therapy help. Yes, I was down, but I’m stronger and smarter than before. I will not allow anyone to mess with my head anymore.

The ex spath hole is back living with his Mommy. I cannot help but think sometimes if he would plot to kill her so he doesn’t have to ‘worry’ about finding a job. If he found a job…he would have to pay back all that child support to his ex-wife.

Thank GOD we lived through it and are away from them! My best and big (((HUGS))) to you.

p.s. why am I invisible here now? No one seems to want to connect with me?


you’re visible to me and we’re connected no matter what, because we are part of the survivers club. Survived the parasite infection and have some immunity.

from the book ponerology:
“Our personalities also pass through temporary destructive periods as a result of various life events, especially if we undergo suffering or meet with situations or circumstances which are at variance with our prior experiences and imaginings. These so-called disintegrative stages are often unpleasant, although not necessarily so. A good dramatic work for instance, enables us to experience a disintegrative state, simultaneously calming down the unpleasant components and furnishing creative ideas for a renewed reintegration of our own personalities. True theatre, therefore causes the condition known as catharsis.” Page 47-48
Evil, theatre, drama. all can serve the function of creating a new you.


Hi Skylar,
Thanks for the Ponerology viewpoint. Ya got my curiousity up with your quote! So I googled a Ponerology blog. Although I find much to argue, there is also quite a bit of common ground! Thankfully my philosophy works best for me and has resolved all my life questions and needs, but I’m always interested in understanding other perspectives and how their opinions work for others!

I Ditto Skylar. You are not invisible to me but sometimes, temporarily, I can be focused elsewhere. This is a great site where you will be believed and more than that, we share much the same experiences (connection! compassion! understanding!). Responses can be slow but don’t give up on us!


wow, I just got a call from blockbuster video because of a late rental in a city that I don’t live in…. but now I know who does. the xP is wearing my skin renting movies with my account. He never gives his real address to anyone. He doesn’t want anyone to know where he lives. But he is addicted to drama and loves watching horror movies. recent rentals: The Pacific, Splice, Jona Hex, Triage 2009.

I thought for a while about the quote above and the idea of theatre creating catharsis. Then I realized: THAT’S WHY THEY LOVE DRAMA. They are in a continually disintegrative mode, unable to get past the trauma that they experienced as children. They need drama to get a feeling of healing. This is what Rene Girard discussed in “Violence and the Sacred” when he discussed the cycles of violence and catharsis, the rituals in so many religions and the scapegoats that they create at the center of the drama.
I’m starting to get a better idea of what is happening in their infantile little minds.

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