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By | February 15, 2012 24 Comments

Glimpse into the mind of a child killer

Ryan Brunn of Georgia was convicted of murdering a young girl, Jorelys Rivera, last December. After he was sentenced, he gave a three-hour interview to the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. Story and video:

Ryan Brunn police interview: Tape of Jorelys Rivera killer released, on HuffingtonPost.com.

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.


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Ox Drover

This was a very interesting interview with this guy, and I’m frankly not sorry that he killed himself by hanging himself in his cell. It makes sure that he will never walk the streets again. I hate to be so cynical but I don’t know any other way to feel when our system lets these perverts out again after some time.

Time does not make them safer.

Where he said that he wouldn’t have killed her if she had not asked to go to the bathroom….blaming the little girl. I’m surprised she didn’t pee herself or defecate on herself due to the fear. It was also interesting that he denied the many wounds on her. He sure did not take responsibility for all that was done to her.

Annie

Oxy,
Up here in Canada we’ve been having a very similar conversation lately:
http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/Federal-Politics/2012/02/01/tory_senator_says_let_killers_hang/

It’s really divided the country (well, not so much the country, just the parliament) into those who understand where Senator Boisvenu is coming from and are willing to extend some tolerance, and those who are calling for his head regardless of the extenuating circumstances.

MiLo

I found it chilling the way he tempted the little girl into the apartment. The police noted that they just let him talk and he had to “brag” as in look how smart I was. Disgusting.

Annie: You can certainly say Senator Boisvenu has extenuating circumstances, the father of a girl kidnapped, raped and murdered. He understands. I think his idea is an interesting one, it should lead to some lively debates. Keep us informed.

Ox Drover

Annie,

While I think that “suicide” under “normal” circumstances is probably not a good idea, I actually think that shortening one’s own life is the privilege of all of us but we do not need a rope….actually, stopping eating and drinking is quite a reasonable way to do it.

Old sick dogs do it, and there is no reason that old sick people can’t or shouldn’t do the same. In fact, I had a patient once in the mid stages of cancer who decided to end his life that way. The doctor was furious and tried to force a tube down the patient’s nose….then when that didn’t work (guess who stopped it!) then he tried to get the wife to force the patient…but you know, the man lived about a week and he assured me he was not uncomfortable in any way. He was totally alert and oriented and I made sure he was not in pain. This was in the mid 1980s so there was a lot of different rules and looking at things then as far as terminally ill patients were concerned….but I have decided that if I am ill I will do the same thing when life is no longer enjoyable or comfortable and not likely to be either comfortable or enjoyable in the future.

I think the prisoners should be informed of this option just in case they don’t have a rope…but unless a prisoner is under suicide watch, there are all kinds of things available to them to do themselves in. Most of them, though, know that they will get out at some time or other so they don’t want to do themselves in.

Unfortunately.

Ox Drover

Milo,

What I don’t understand (comprehend) is how someone who is such a loser, who got caught…like my son for example…thinks they are such “winners” and “so smart”—-like Hare says they lie (even to themselves) when the truth would fit better and when the evidence of the lie is right before them….I know it, but I can’t believe it. LOL

skylar

Oxy,
it’s about values. They don’t have the same values that we do. When we study spaths we make the mistake of thinking that because they came from the same culture that we do, that they will have the same values that we do.

It’s better to study them the way that anthropologists study people from other cultures. Imagine you encountered a Polynesian person who used seashells as currency. You wouldn’t think they were crazy because you’ve heard that there are cultures that value seashells. Seems ridiculous because I can go down to the beach and pick them up for free. But then we value gold and silver as currency and it can be dug out of the ground…

So when we study spaths, the first thing to know is that they simply don’t have the same values as we do. They are like a foreign culture with foreign beliefs. They believe that causing others to suffer is paramount. Your son knows what a disappointment he is to you. That makes him a winner – because you care about him, you suffer and he caused it.

I think the reason it’s hard to remember this is because they do have one other value: their mask. They mirror our values with a mask. This is the most effective way they can get us to care about them enough to suffer when they destroy themselves.

Yes, it’s all backwards, and I know you’ll never be able to relate to it, but that is what they do and how they think. I noticed it when my spath kept saying things like, “I’m going to jail now.” When in fact he wasn’t – it was part of his con. He was determined to see MY concern for him. In the end, it was the most important thing for him, that I suffer at the thought of HIS pain. totally f—ed up.

Ox Drover

Sky, I KNOW what you are saying, but it is still difficult to COMPREHEND that “alien culture”—and you are totally right it is an alien culture, but they PRETEND to be the same culture we are and some are quite good at it. (Head shaking here) Just like the concept of “winning” that Patrick has, versus my idea of “winning”—he still sees himself as this WINNER in life, a SUCCESS if you will, when it is obvious to anyone with “one eye and half sense” that he is the ULTIMATE LOSER CONVICT….LOL

Well spent the day yesterday on the computer all day scanning in my photo collection and arranging them….so got to do “real world things” today, like wash dishes and cook and do laundry, so you guys keep it between the ditches, I’ve gotta go to work!

Ox Drover

YOu know I got to thinking about this story from the aspect of how to PROTECT OUR KIDS FROM THIS KIND OF KILLER, one who will LURE THEM AWAY TO GET THE ALONE….a person who is “familiar” to them as I am guessing that this man, as a worker there at the apartment complex must have been a familiar face to her.

How can a mother or father PREPARE A CHILD for the potential danger in those around them…..which I think is more frequently the case of danger than in “stranger danger”?

This girl was 9. At what age do you start “preparing a child” by telling them about deviant sex and danger of being murdered? Don’t you know that will make the little darlings sleep better at night? To heck with the monsters under the bed scary stuff, they will run screaming when grandma or grandpa tries to give them a birthday hug! They will call 911 with their pudgey little hands when daddy wipes their “pee pee” because they are still not potty trained at 18 months. Yea, this is a bit of hyperbole here, but my question is real. How can you prepare your kids for this kind of thing without scaring them to death and still not “protecting” them.

Kid’s judgments at 9 years old are not great to start with….and to make them totally paranoid of all people, even the ones they know and trust….how about those teachers in California? Okay honey, now if your teacher tries to “blindfold you”—well there goes the game of “blind man’s bluff” we used to play when I was a kid in first and second grade—if you were able to “prepare” a kid to be “safe” in all these conditions the poor little tyke would be so paranoid and distrustful of everyone they would never be able to form a meaningful human bond.

I don’t know what the answer is, I wish I did know a better way to prepare our kids to be “safe” from predators. It makes me sad.

Stargazer

Oxy, I have a neighbor in my building whom I’ve known for almost 8 years since I’ve been here. She is a single mom from Russia and a very strong personality. She had an 8-year old son when I met her. He is now almost 16. Her son took a liking to snakes when I used to bring them out in the neighborhood. And she would let him petsit for me occasionally. But he would never come into my house when invited. He seemed almost afraid. I realized that his mother probably coached him on not ever going into anyone’s home without her permission. I took this as a really good thing, and I didn’t take it personally. She once allowed me to take him to a reptile expo, but we made it a point to call her every hour or so. I think one day he will thank her for sheltering him so much, as we have had nests of sex offenders living in our building and the building next door. Having no children of my own, I have occasionally gotten close to some of the kids in the neighborhood over the years. But he is the only one who never was in my house alone with me. I always thought it odd that other neighbors let their kids come over without question. I always told the kids to go ask their parents first, and I made sure the parents had my phone number or the kids had a cell phone. Even though I am a harmless person, I am STILL a stranger to them, and how would they know?

I was really amazed at how easily kids wander around the neighborhood in condo/apt complexes and just wander into strangers’ homes. I admired the one mom who taught her son to be wary of strangers. I do think they can be taught in a way that doesn’t make them fear everyone. Just say, “Even if it’s someone you know and like, just do not ever go into their house.” Period. You don’t have to tell them about all the evil in the world. Just tell them not to do it.

The other thing that really leapt out at me from this video is the pity play. A child has lost her life in a most brutal way at his hands and he’s feeling sorry for himself because he can’t watch the Superbowl. Ugh.

skylar

Mrs. Grimm,
your perception is razor sharp. How do you do it?

My own perception is dulled from life with spaths. I just accept words like that and don’t really think about it. Sometimes, it takes a day or two before I get a wtf? moment.

Ox Drover

Star,

I agree that this boy’s mom was sharp, but unfortunately, we don’t always think about that sort of thing…until too late….with all the perversion going on now….and all the FEMALE school teachers being caught with students sexually. One just received 40 year sentence and will have to actually DO 20 before she can even hope to get out on parole….having sex with a 14 year old boy who is apparently traumatized by it all.

I’m glad to see some sentences that are REASONABLE being handed down to these perverts, not that it will stop the other ones but they think they will be “special” and not get caught, but it will at least keep these off the streets for a reasonable time.

The teacher will be like 46 when she gets out, so hopefully she will not be as apt to find another 14 year old. YUK!

Stargazer

Oxy, it’s crazy to me how parents in this complex let their kids run around unsupervised and just do whatever. They will come and knock on my door from time to time because they’re bored. I have discouraged this because I conduct my massage practice here. But also, I don’t want the kids to get too complacent and just do this with random people. I worry for their safety. After being here for so many years, I’ve watched a lot of these kids grow up, and I’ve gotten to know them. Some of the kids didn’t get a lot of attention at home – you could just tell. I think these kids are most at risk to wander into the house of a predator.

Ox Drover

Well the teenager who killed the 9 year old to find out what it felt like to kill someone got 60 years…30+30 so she can’t get out until she is 78 on parole

http://insession.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/09/teenager-who-killed-for-fun-sentenced/?iref=obnetwork

If this girl is not a dangerous personality disordered individual (regardless of the fact that she can’t be legally diagnosed until she is 18 as being a “psychopath”) I don’t know what is…glad she is locked up for the next 60 years at least!

darwinsmom

The article says she was 18 when sentenced at least… so strictly speaking they could have done a diagnosis on her birthday

Ox Drover

The thing that did the murderer in the worst and got her (I think) the harsher sentence was her diary entry where she was gloating over the murder. I’m glad to see her confined for essentially her “natural life” where she belongs and people on the outside will be safe from her….and hey, she won’t procreate there either! Don’t need any of her little bambinos.

Stargazer

I left a comment on the thread about the teenager who killed the 9-year old. I encourage everyone to do it too. It’s a good way to get the word out. If you read the other comments, a lot of people could use some enlightening as to what a sociopath is.

darwinsmom

Yup, I left a comment there… awaiting approval

woundlicker

I have left a comment on a couple of headlines that have made it here. I find when I do post my opinion that these people are spath’s no one gives me a thumb’s down. I just hope it’s sinking in.

Great advice though, to get the word out. I totally agree!

Sky, you’ve just made my day! I fear so much that I am still a sap.

I have a narcissistic father and I married a psychopath – with just a month of freedom between leaving home at 18 and meeting Steve! It’s 3 years now since he left and 18 months since that avalanche of pennies landed on my head and I spend much of my time working through what happened in the hope that as I remember, I’ll learn the lessons I missed as a child in a home dominated by a cold and controlling man. I am so afraid of getting done over again.

I think we have to read and communicate and watch and study as much as we can to heal ourselves, protect ourselves and spread the word.

Skylar,

You write some brilliant posts IMO.
it’s about values. They don’t have the same values that we do. When we study spaths, the first thing to know is that they simply don’t have the same values as we do. They believe that causing others to suffer is paramount.

I think the reason it’s hard to remember this is because they do have one other value: their mask. They mirror our values with a mask. This is the most effective way they can get us to care about them enough to suffer when they destroy themselves.

My old spath always was telling me how he was about to lose his job, over and over again. I could never figure out if he was (really in jeopardy at work) or another pity ploy. Poor me, work is SO hard, I have no idea what it’s like. He told me he wanted to kill himself once. Scared the heck out of me. Yet, I would suffer and he would wake up the next day like no big deal. Same with rage attacks. He would be wildly angry in a disproportionate way to “what was wrong.” and wake up the next morning with amnesia. I would say Un,uh this is not gonna fly, you owe an apology and he would make me suffer with the silent treatment for a week or so until I, yes me, would say something stupid like, “Sorry I made you mad.” Hence, the vicious cycle set up of backward relating.
Yes, it’s all backwards, and I know you’ll never be able to relate to it, but that is what they do and how they think. He was determined to see MY concern for him. In the end, it was the most important thing for him, that I suffer at the thought of HIS pain. totally f—ed up.

Add to this that they will rarely show concern for us. If so it’s usually empty words with no behavior that backs up the words.

skylar

honestkindgiver,
thank you for your compliment.
You made me laugh when you said, “Sorry I made you mad”.
I know I shouldn’t laugh, but I’ve been there, done that! You nailed it.

The reason I have spent so much time thinking about what motivates the spaths is because my spath took every minute of 25.5 years from me. He poisoned me so I was sick. I didn’t have kids, no job, spent all my money, didn’t socialize. I need to gain something from that time he took. Understanding is all that is left. I have to understand to make it have meaning.

Spaths are living in what seems to be a movie production. They are the star and WE have to care deeply about what happens to the main character. They are story driven characters so they need an audience. Without an audience, they don’t even exist.

Drama is their staple for getting attention. and it’s a red flag for us!

G1S

There is a new show that started on Investigation Discovery last Monday at 10 PM.

It’s called Killer Kids.

I watched it. It was new information and new stories, not a re-hash of many famous cases. I was impressed by how well done it was. It was not the predictable formula that many of these true-crime shows have.

It may be a Canadian show.

Truthspeak

G1S, I can’t watch these types of shows, anymore – at least, not for a while.

I used to watch Discovery ID programs, often. Once again, it may have been in an effort to “understand” sociopathy and WHY people do what they choose to do, etc. Now, I can’t watch them because this second exspath is so over the top that it’s going to take me a good while to process the Truth and move forward on my healing path.

My attorney said to me that mine was the worst case, by far, that she had ever seen in her career. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So, I’m going to be a little kinder to myself as I’m healing. 🙂

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