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“Hoarders” show unknowingly features a sex offender

The reality TV show Hoarders, aired on A&E, failed to do a background check on “Patrick Donovan Flanagan O’Shannahan,” who they portrayed as an eccentric old guy who liked to collect dolls. In fact, he had multiple aliases and a long rap sheet, including a fraud, assault and a sex offense.

Read “Hoarders” star a convicted sex offender on TheSmokingGun.com.

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.


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66 Comments on "“Hoarders” show unknowingly features a sex offender"

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This guy I think ranks up there with some of the real weirdos! I idid note though in another link on the same page with the story that he was “involuntarily” given a psych eval after a very thin “I don’t want to live” gesture. LOL

You’d think that these shows would at least spend a few bucks on a back ground check on these people who are obviously at least one sheet shy of a set of sails!

I thought some of the comments on the article were interesting, one especially on the second story about the psych eval….defending him, sounds like it was written by HIM! LOL

one/joy_step_at_a_time

GRANDIOSITY AT ITS BEST!

nutjob.

How’d you like the photo, One_step!!!! LOL ROTFLMAO That’s my laugh for the day!

Ummmmmm. Hellloooo!
Sir, Peterpan……sex offender, hoarder…..YEP it all adds up.

I have a similar hat….except mine has rastafarian dreads comeing out of it, not one braid!!!

Do landlords ever do a property check or maintenence checks, let alone BACKGROUND checks?

we all have a responsibility in shutting down and pigeon holing these crackpots.

A&E…..with all the legal team…..WTF? Shameful to glamorize this whatcko.
I’m wondering if hoarding is another attempt to hide under all the crap in your life. (the past).

The spath appeared to be neat, but he woulnd’t get rid of anything, my garage was packed……it has become a joke amongst people who knew us…..know we divorced and I got the house…..they ask…..did you clean out that garage he collected all his junk in?
OH yeah…..as soon as I came from court…..it all went!!!

Good catch Oxy, it WAS him. I’m following this case. Smoking Gun didn’t break the story, this site did http://anitawirawan.com/sirpatrick/#inhisownwords

I was actually coming to see if anyone here had reported on it yet.

Evidently no one checked up on this guy. He didn’t even show up as a sex offender on line until Anita’s blog outed him. His landlady lives out of town and it’s handled by a real estate office. Of course, he’s a career con man, so he probably had fake references set up. He had his church fooled. He even WRITES in that idiot misbegotten brogue. My Irish is offended! But then everything else is offensive too. Those dolls he named after a neighborhood child? Nuhuh, his daughter. His kids talked to their “dad” online for the first time since he abandoned them. Sounds like he traumatized the girl so badly she still has problems. Then dear old dad comes on TV and says he named his dolls after you, but you were a neighbor girl and died…. charming.

The oldest son didn’t write. I think he is in jail for taking after his father, he’s a pedophile also.

He’s also a bigot who uses the N word. I haven’t seen anyone use that word in hate in so long, well, we were all in shock.

So he’s gone on the run, bet he didn’t notify the sex offender’s registry this time either. Check out Anita’s site for his pictures and long list of alias’s, he maybe heading your direction. Anyone in the area, if you see him, please give me a heads up. Right after you call the police and report a suspicious lurker.

He likes 15 year olds, but he’ll happily take a 13 year old. Read how he handled himself if you are really in the mood to hate someone. Spread the word and his picture, we want this guy out of the woodwork and behind bars. A few scam victims have already come forward.

We were talking about his outrageous lies, and one poster suggested he used them as a screening device. If you didn’t confront him with it, you are marked as a potential victim. Anita said she noticed that the people around him will say, well yes he lied about that, but he would NEVER lie about (insert outrageous lie). It’s true of me. At the end, I knew X was telling me stupid lies, but I told myself maybe it was a midlife crisis and told him to make an appointment with the doctor. I didn’t even confront him about his silly attempt to gaslight me. Hindsight being 20=20, I now realize my subconscious was screaming at me, DANGER!!!!! but my conscious self was too threatened to listen.

In a way, the lies are more smoke and mirrors. I’ll tell you some really silly lies which you won’t believe, but you’ll get so used to them I’ll slip the real, harmful lies right past your guard.

Thanks for that story Donna.

I ran across a blog recently that was discussing whether hoarding is a symptom or ‘flavour’ of OCD. There were dozens of posts discussing how much OCD is or isn’t related, how much right family members have to intervene, how they shouldn’t force their viewpoints on a hoarder for fear of them escalating, etc… But this discussion flow was interrupted by the child of a hoarder whose post practically jumped off the page. She apologized to everyone else if she was offending them, but said that in her opinion many hoarders were sociopaths who use physical chaos to control the people around them. And that instantly gave me an understanding of why I just couldn’t watch that show (Hoarders) – the one time I turned it on the woman being filmed was clearly manipulating and mindf***ing her daughters. Seconds after I turned on the show one of the participants – a City Inspector sent to evaluate the forced cleanup – described the mother as “just plain mean”. But even I had bought the “mentally ill” label and didn’t consider sociopathy.

I hope that you might do some future columns about sociopathy and hoarding.

Having known ONE person who is OCD, and a HOARDER, and a PSYCHOPATH and a liar and a thief—who knows if it all goes together or not. I have only known one person (professionally) as a patient who was a klepto, and a hoarder and a psychopath, and one person (personally) who was all those things, plus the OCD but I know one thing for sure, hoarding is a form, I think of GREED.

The old “dog in the manger” greed, of I don’t need it, I can’t use it but if I have it, I feel less anxiety—and if you have it and I want it, it is okay for me to sneak-thief it.

I had a difficult time coming to the realization that my “friend” was a THIEF (I knew she was a hoarder) but the stuff she stole from me 1) she did not need 2) did not use 3) was of NO monetary value whatsoever and she 4) just hoarded it at great cost and great labor. I even CAUGHT her red handed stealing from me, and yet, I was too much of an enabler to confront her or to set boundaries….it was only CATCHING her red handed (after I cried about it for three days) I finally GOT UP THE GUTS, BALLS AND BACK BONES to SET A BOUNDARY—“this is not working for me” So I realize now that I had as much problem in confronting her as she had in stopping her thefts.

Call it OCD, psychopathy, anxiety, hoarding, or what you will….the woman is some, or all, of these, but she is also EVIL and GREEDY.

I think we all “hoard” some things to some extent—I still have knick-knacks that belonged to my late husband, I still have the ribbons I won in rodeos when I was 15, the horse show ribbons my husband won in eventing—but I’m starting to “turn loose” of these things and am right now in the middle of a BIG TOSS OUT, burn, give to the kids and grandkids what they want and the rest goes OUT! I don’t need them and the emotional value is passing as I heal and become more content with TODAY, with NOW and less concerned with “what use’ta be.”

If I can’t eat it, wear it, cook in it, or sit on it what the heck do I need it for? Taking up space and to dust? Nah, clean it out. CLEAN SWEEP my space and my life!

Dear Romantic (NO fool)!

Great site and great information accumulated about this guy. It was interesting to me to look at the photos though, and it is like several of them were not of even the same person at all….he was good at changing his looks I think.

Like most (all?) psychopaths his grandiose opinion of himself and his ability to LIE in the face of being caught is amazing! The problem is with them though, is that so many times if they just keep on with the lie, AND KEEP ON AND KEEP ON, we (the hearers) will actually start to doubt our own good sense—I know I have for sure!~ It is just so hard to imagine that someone would CONTINUE TO LIE IN THE FACE OF PROOF THAT THEY ARE LYING—especially over something very trivial in most cases! DUH!? What’s the point!

The only time I ever remember spanking my P son (other than the smack his hand at 2 years old and say “no” when he was reaching for something) was when he was 11 and stole some things, and was CAUGHT RED HANDED and continued to LIE AND LIE ABOUT IT. I could not believe he would continue to LIE about it—actually, in RETROSPECT, that was the FIRST RED FLAG that I had a budding psychopath on my hands. After that he would continue to steal small items (but we didn’t catch on til much much later) He was apparently a “great kid” between 11 and puberty at which time he started with more serious thefts and rebellions. By 17 he was a serious criminal, by 18 doing major time, and by 20 after only being out 5 months from first prison sentence, back in for murder. Got bigger FAST. STILL LIES like a rug!

I had to comment on this one as the spath i was in volved with was highly over the top OCD. Doesn’t even cook in his home, only barely in his garage. Cleans obsessively and can’t keep garbage in home(anti hoarder) but i do beleive he keeps souvenirs etc. He has a picture of his first exwife(now deceased) at their wedding with divorce decree underneath, as well as a pic of second ex wife below it, all for attention. What he finds amusing , others find distasteful. He collects certain objects and lines everything up. as in the movie Sleeping With the Enemy. I could go on and on, he’s just to sick to give any more energy to. Im so exhausted from all the other toxics i’ve met since, wonder when i will ever get some healthy folks in my life. This estate crap has just about done me in and i feel like im not the sweet person i used to be before all of this, very disheartened and down on people. kh

kindheart48 OCD and hoarder = FUR FLY!!

Donna, my son’s dad was the same way. He collected what was important to him. But, when he decided to leave that life and jump into another…. he would leave it all behind! He had nothing to lose. He didn’t value my life and didn’t value his either. He took his life.

Jim

Jim is a hoarder. His house is so trashed that he doesn’t have a path. He has to step over garbage. He keeps “pee bottles” so he doesn’t have to walk to bathroom.

His entertainment is the computer. I saw teen porn on his computer. He is also signed up with swingers and sex dating sites.

I can easily see the connection. It is one out-of-control nasty addiction combined with the other nasty.

I forgot to mention that Jim is a nudist. This is something I forgot until I walked away from computer for a minute.

See I stopped going to Jim’s house years ago so the memory was in the past.

I remember fat naked Jim standing up and cigarette wrappers were sticking to his ass. His feet kicked aside nasty garbage as he made his way through the house.

I must have really been in a serious fog to have hooked-up with a guy like him.

Jim plays a good game. I can see him hooking-up other women. He has his way of taking focus off him and he gets you looking at what is wrong with you.

The spath i was involved with loved to be referred to as eccentric , and to this day i make a point of telling people that eccentric is just a polite way of saying he’s a dam freak. Sorry but i know how he thinks and eccentric not, they like to think they are special. Mine although he has reported millions steals straws (black to match his ugly garage) from fast food restaurants. All his dishsoap etc. has to be clear , everything the same , BORING CHING CHING . NO imagination whatsoever. To think i thought he was interesting and that is what got my curiosity peeked, to spend all these years and find out he’s the most boring cowardly idiot , just a plain kook. Sorry i had to vent, where is that frying pan , hit me one good one . love kh

Kindheart, he had a clever way of putting it. OR a interesting tone? could he make his boring conversation sound interesting by the tone of his voice?

I’m asking cause Jim did that to me.

He told long boring stories that at first seemed interesting.

I was tired of being interrupted in mid-sentence and then listening to his long boring stories for hours.

I decided to get a word in. He said I RUDELY INTERRUPTED HIM!!!!!

To this day he tells people that I was the problem. That I rudely interrupted him, and that I yelled at him.

Yeah, he portrays me to be this mean little 5’3 woman that beat the shit of his 6’2 fat ass.

Dear Jeannie,

I know a psychopath like that! RUDELY INTERRUPTED !!!! LOL Snarf, snark ROTFLMAO LOL My X-BF-P—-knew everything, was THE expert at everything! But don’t DARE interrupt him to correct his idiot ideas! LOL

I believe that if someone has issues on ‘this’ level…..there is a good chance there is more underneath!!!!
They may just be trying to bury what they are trying to keep off the surface.

I agree. Many people will at least ‘hoard’ one item and it is often for a security purpose. It was inevitable for me that I attracted these types because I have been without family since 16 and no husband. There was also one Sociopath that I ran into while I was offering free counseling sessions. This one too had a hoarding issue. You could not walk in his dwelling. The hoarding extended outside the home in to the front and back yard. I also noticed that they often will stick close and near by their mother if they are a male. I have noticed with three cases of male sociopaths that they all have been within a five mile distance from the parents home.

The one I am dealing with found an apartment for his mother a three minute walk from him and his wife. He refuses to cook or clean. Ever. So when his wife escapes to visit her parents his 70 year old mother comes over and cleans. And he eats twice a day at her apartment. He doesn’t hoard, unless porn counts.

I’ve often wondered if some of these hoarders are child abusers beyond raising their children in unsafe and unsanitary conditions. My second ex-husband is a hoarder. I believe he may be bi-polar, but I’m not sure. He has shown some tendencies of sociopath behavior, but seems to be more authentically capable of empathy, doing things to help me, etc. I am not around him much, but we talk on the phone as friends, and visit every once in a while. He’s a better phone friend or emergency friend than anything else. I have always thought it was good that he did not have children. He was abused and he would have been a very unpredictable and abusive parent. I can usually handle his manic delusions when I keep it on the phone. I love watching the show and I am glad they caught this guy because of it. Unless a hoarder is completely physically and/or mentally disabled as a cause for being unable to care for their living space, I truly do wonder about what else goes on behind their doors.

I’ve always been amazed that anyone could live the way these hoarders do.It’s beyond clutter,which I’ve been guilty of at times.It was incredulous to watch a woman walk over what most people would consider garbage and yet when her sons tried to help her clean up,she couldn’t part with any of it!But by far,this guy has got to be the eeriest!!! I’m so glad that his debut on TV led to his being recognized!

Hi Blossom:

It is very sad. My second husband is a terrible hoarder. I cleaned it all up and helped him clean it all up multiple times during our marriage. His brother helped one time hauling off a ton of stuff from his two story barn and his yard. This is the one that I think has Borderline Personality Disorder and may be Bi-Polar as well. He suffers a lot from disabilities. However, when people keep cleaning things out and he keeps going to the thrift stores and dumpster diving, it doesn’t take long to figure out he is a hoarder. He remembers things as if they are people. He has memories of each thing just like they show on TV. Or he has plans for things and the plans never materialize. It is so odd and depressing to see first hand. He still gripes about some old chairs his brother hauled off without his permission and it was 8 years ago. He went hungry at one time in his life and it is as if that caused him to think he has to save everything. It has taken me many years to make him see he is a hoarder. He is now starting to do things himself which is best. But what is super strange to me,is that he will tell me he has been working hard and thrown things away and then I go over there, and it looks horrible to me. He is proud and it is like he can only see what he threw away or the clean spots in a yard filled with junk. If I try to say that I think the city will not be happy with what is left, he looks at me as if that just can’t be possible because he thinks it’s clean! It is fascinating to watch AFTER the divorce. But, a nightmare to watch when you are stuck with them and the more you throw away thinking you are helping, the more they are getting angry at missing their “valuables” and buying even more. We have finally reached a point where I will talk about it, but I never say hoarding. I say extreme clutter. It has helped me to watch these TV shows because I now say things that have made him see more of what he is living in. I also told him the last time I was there a couple of months ago, that I was getting too old to come there and risk falling. That seemed to compel him to see it finally. I don’t like going there, but I will go check it out when he is finished with the top floor of the barn where a bunch of the stuff in the house is supposed to be moved. He is seeking counseling for it also. I guess he is addicted to junk like I am addicted to spaths and strange people like him.

fight,
Your post reminds me of my husband.He didn’t bring his junk into the home.But he salvaged metal.Because we lived in a trailer park for yrs,he couldn’t stack his metal in the yard until he had enough to sell.So he made arrangements to take it to a friend’s house.It was an old house that they couldn’t afford to maintain;and they were hoarders.So along comes my husband with his junk!Of course,my husband didn’t do any of the stacking…only the supervising;the ordering around!Either me or one of our girls would lift those heavy rotors and other metal and stack it as neatly as possible.

Oh Blossom. He really is loathsome, your “husband”.

The latespath was a ‘hoarder’ but not in the traditional sense of neatly stacking piles into towers. He saved papers, any kind of papers and just left them all over tables, chairs, desks, cars, and his favorite – the floor. God forbid anyone touched them or tried to clean them up.

He protected these papers even though they were nothing more than toll receipts, scrap school papers, misaligned computer printouts, cash register receipts, empty packages from cigarettes, old newspapers, transit cards, etc. . When he did have a job, 3 jobs for a total 5 1/2 years out of 28, since graduating law school, he would get angry if the cleaning people touched anything in his office. If my parents tidied up anything that was his (it was their house and he was living rent and expense free), he would not confront them, rather he would take it out on me.

On the flip side, things that had value meant nothing to him. He accidentally threw away an expensive watch, when he realized what happened, he refused to look in the kitchen trash bag for it. Any car he own was a rolling paper scow; he cared so little about any of his cars, even the little red sports car, if they were dented or scratched, he never bothered to have them repaired. The last car he owned was repossessed as he lost the third and last job he had; it was 1993 and he never owned or drove another car nor did he care. Interesting thing about this is that a year earlier he took a several day, expensive, auto racing course. Clothes meant nothing, just something to throw on the body and then the floor, even though had to go to court representing clients. Electronics, cds, albums or tapes, cameras and equipment, jewelry, collectibles, nothing but papers, had any value to him.

He collected useless papers. He had no ability to value things. I read on another site ‘that if you gave a spath a million dollars most likely he would spend it on drugs, gambling, or something else just as fleeting as nothing of value stays in their possession long’.

A psychologist said to me that the hoarding could be a form of Asperger’s in addition to his being a sociopath. He was so focused on papers that he would spend time in between escort appointments collecting transit passes that others discarded. How many, we found 3 black plastic lawn and leaf bags completely full, hidden in an unused closet.

After he died my son and I cleaned up over 110 supermarket paper bags and many boxes all filled with papers that we recycled. Did I throw away anything potentially useful for the lawsuit, probably. But at the time, I had no way of knowing.

lost everything,
My husband’s cars were always dirty;he didn’t take pride in them like most guys do! Yet,he claimed to have OCD~~~I think it was just something he used to control me!I had to keep the house sooooo clean or he would be hollering in my face!I thought it rather strange that he wasn’t doing any of the cleaning like most people with OCD,do! He wasn’t even particular about his hygeine or grooming!

OCD ! Lol. Unbelievable Blossom. Refusing to clean and ordering someone else to clean and claiming to have OCD. That would be a lazy bullying lying sociopath.

I read an interesting article on hoarding once which identified it as a characteristic of paranoid personalities. The theory was that , as with animals who defacate or leave rotten material at the entrance of their burrow or den, it is a tactic to repel others. In the animal world, predators. In humans, other people who the paranoid hoarder fears and wants to avoid contact with. But as others have said it also could be a pretty obvious attempt to hide / bury aspects of their personality they don’t want exposed, in these extreme cases where dwellings are barely accessible.

Tea Light,
That’s interesting! I had never thought of that as a reason! I had often wondered why anyone would want to hoard so much stuff into their home that there was no longer a living space;no where to invite company when they came over! I always thought of it as an eccentric trait,but to think of it as a purposeful act throws it in a different light!

I’ll try and find the link Blossom,but it was a few years ago that I read it, it made a lot of sense

Lost everything,

What you say is so spot on! My experience is also that many of these types value the strangest things (scraps of paper!?), and have nearly zero connection to the real value of other things (obviously including PEOPLE). I have also noticed that they have no ability, or limited ability, to organize their lives. Even the one’s I’ve known who appear tidy and controlled, when I could see underneath the appearance, were so disorganized. They couldn’t get things paid on time, keep track of important documents, make appointments, or otherwise track important ‘life’ events.

I ‘helped’ one try and organize his ‘room’: bought files and boxes, etc… He could not do it. Just simply couldn’t do it. That was when I really saw that in some respects he was ‘childish’. As if he didn’t have the ability to think through how to ‘get organized’. I am not sure if it is a matter of not caring one single bit, or if it is an actual disability related to the way their brains function. But I remember looking at him and thinking ‘staying in this relationship will be like babysitting for the rest of my life’. That is when I decided to find an exit route.

Course, he did that for me by unceremoniously manipulating me and dumping me. Thank goodness he did!!!!!!! hallelujah!

Hi Slimone,

You were very lucky that he dumped you.

There were 2 kinds of people in my latespath’s life – the ones he instantly forgot about and the one he wouldn’t let go of no matter what; unfortunately that was me. When a chapter of his life ended, so did all the people in that part. He went to law school and we lived in married student housing the entire 3 years, so the ‘neighbors’ were students from the entire academic spectrum. He was active in law school as well as campus life; law review, student government, honor societies, working with professors and on and on. The day he graduated, that was it for all of the people he spent 3 years of his life with; he never had any further contact with anyone, he didn’t even went back to visit the campus and it was/is magnificent. He did the same with people he worked with or represented, fellow classmates/teachers from other schools, anyone in a past segment of his life was a non entity. It/they served it’s/their purpose, now time to move on.

He would not leave my life for anything and once I had a baby that was sealed. I envy the victims that say ‘he took off and forgot the child’. For me the child became his ultimate weapon. The word divorce was met with his word, kidnap. Not fight you for custody, simply kidnap. He had no use for the child nor bonded, he told me have an abortion, never held the baby, never supported the child in any way. Being the spath that he was, he found the ultimate way to use the child.

I tried to make the best of things for almost 10 years but it just became over whelming, we were still living in my parent’s house 5 years after passing the bar and no money saved; he was saying that he was miserable in job 2; the abuse was becoming more often; and the spath was becoming more wrapped up in dreams, no fantasies, that were just never going to happen now or ever.

No real person would choose to stay in a marriage where there was no marriage in any sense of the word; to waste their life. The spath did. Instead of moving on, starting fresh with a great education to back him up, no responsibilities to haunt him, he was determined not to get a divorce. Using the child as a ‘hostage’ he felt ‘stopping’ my life was the optimum scenario. Destruction was preferable to freedom.

As far as disorganization went it was unreal. Chaos pure and simple.

I managed, at least to some extent, to keep his mess contained until my mom lost her vision. People slip, they get bruised, maybe break a bone; for my mother, she broke her wrist and went blind 3 days later; she had a whiplash-like reaction and the jerk of her head allowed for fluid to build on on her optic nerve, the effect was similar to glaucoma – for her, total blindness. The following almost 7 years were a medical nightmare; 18 surgeries; countless hospital stays; broken bones; and all of the day to day care involved. Straightening up his messes went on a way, way back burner. My mother took care of me, now it was my turn to take care of her.

The effect for the latespath, was a free reign to mess. A mess that he always made, now was a convenient hiding place for his crimes. Any attempt I now made at neatening, when the plumber, electrician, heating techs, had to come; was met with escalating physical abuse, teeth knocked out, destroyed knee and hip.

You would have been more than a baby sitter, you would have be nursemaid, housemaid, chef, and worse of all excuse-maker to the world and eventually to yourself.

Peter Pan people not only live in Never Never Land they are looking to recruit new maintenance personnel for it’s upkeep all the time.

lost everything,
You said: You would have been more than a baby sitter, you would have be nursemaid, housemaid, chef, and worse of all excuse-maker to the world and eventually to yourself.

Peter Pan people not only live in Never Never Land they are looking to recruit new maintenance personnel for it’s upkeep all the time.

I couldn’t have said it better myself! So it was with my husband! And he’s still trying to get me back!

Maintenance personnel. That’s exactly what these people view others as. Nurses. Cooks. Bankers. Sex providers. Child minders. Cleaners.

Hmmm, interesting…my exspath was diagnosed a “malignant narcissist”, not just my imagination or judgement. He too was very disorganized, in fact he was the dirtiest person i have ever come across. Part of it was that he was terribly lazy, but like i used to tell him, he seemed to be a kin to filth. He seemed not to be comfortable unless in squaller. He did bathe and wear laundered clothing, but he was so lazy that he would allow his clothes to dry in the washer, so they smelled like dirty dish rags. He had a very keen sense of smell, but that odor didn’t seem to bother him. If he was perfect otherwise, i would have had to get away from him because of his filth. He was so lazy that he would never put the toilet paper on the roller. He would put it in the window above the holder. I would forever call him on it so he started opening a new roll before the last one was finished so he would have an excuse not to put it where it belonged. I have never seen a grown man so lazy. He would spill something on the floor and say, “the dogs will get it”. Perhaps they would if it was ice cream, but Bourbon and 7? I had to watch everything he did, to keep the house from getting unreasonably disgusting.

My abuser would create dirt and mess as an act of hostility, to “remind me of my place” , to humiliate me, basically, by bullying me into clearing up after him. Nothing was consistent with this abuser. He was obsessive about following a rigid routine of two long showers a day. But not just because he wanted to be clean. He would masturbate in the shower. The second time I met him, after a gap of months ( we met in my country, he returned to his and unknown to me then his wife, and lovebombedme daily with thousands of emails and calls until I agreed to fly to see him) …I was shocked to see a long, dark, wiry hair growing out of the side of his nose. It was impossible not to notice it from even 2, 3 feet away. It’s impossible he didn’t see it when shaving. It must have taken weeks to become that long. Yet this man is vain, proud of people thinking for years that he was a lot younger than he is. And panicked that he now at 50 has grey hairs. I concluded his looks only mattered to him as attool for snaring women. When snared, his underlying contempt and hostility for any woman who fell for his bullshit would come through such as refusing to cut that hair.
He insisted on hotel level cleanliness but created mess, throwing clothes and magasines around, leaving food out, leaving dirty plates he had eaten from whilst I was sick in bed .for me to clean up. It was all about humiliation and control

This “hoarding” thing must be very common in the sociopathic types! My ex was also a “near-hoarder”. He would warn me NEVER to touch his messes and piles of receipts, lists, mail already opened, endless advertisements and notes he had jotted down ALL over the house, on every surface and the floor. It was horrible. I tried at first to talk to him about it and he would get extremely angry and so I learned just to let it go. We could just never have anyone over and if someone stopped by I as SO embarrassed. If he lost something it was ALWAYS my fault. He would go around throwing everything around and curse and yell until he found it and the house was a bigger mess than what it had been before. Sigh. I am continually amazed that I stayed with this man for almost 11 years. My order of protection ran out this past weekend and I have been unable to sleep. He showed back up at church yesterday. He’ll be careful to not cross the lines to give me enough to get another order on him, just to try to make my life miserable again.

Linette can you get the order renewed? Is the church aware this man presents a danger to you in the opinion of law enforcement? Stay safe Linette, this must be highly stressful for you. Let us know how you are doing.

What is it with these guys showing up at church?!! Oh yeah,to prove that they can! To watch your every move,your every gesture,to hear anything they can about you…OMG…it’s a form of stalking!

It’s sounds entirely like stalking. It’s just we can’t imagine someone using a place of worship for that reason. But their religion is just a mask. They know they can stalk in a church and not be challenged as people assume they are there honestly, for spiritual reasons, when they are not. Is your congregation taken in by your husband blossom? Does he pity play them?

Tea Light,
It’s amazing,the stalking idea hit me like a rock as I was writing the above post! I immediately thought of my husband!
I had comforted myself with thoughts like “he doesn’t have a car-won’t have the money for one-he won’t stalk me”!He hasn’t been able to email me as I blocked him.He hasn’t been able to call me as I tell everyone not to give my number to him.Then I read Linette’s post and start replying…and the lightbulb goes off!

He knows I’m not happy to see him there.That in itself thrills him!Although he hasn’t bothered me inside the building,he has quit using his wheelchair and is now using his rollator to get around easier.And instead of coming down the ramp as he should,he comes down the steps.

Your question,Tea Light:Is the congregation taken in by him?
No.They are polite.

He really believes you are his possession Blossom. That he can worm back into your life. These church appearances and calling your father for news of you are stalking behaviours and they certainly are meant to serve as reminders that you can “never be free of him”. Any escalation, any attempt to approach you at church, please get assistance Blossom, tell others he is in fact engaging in stalking by being at your place of worship. I wish they would refuse him entry frankly.

I just want to confess that I’m the messy one. I’ve always struggled with clutter and being organized. She on the other hand excels in those areas. But I’m not a hoarder, and definitely not a psycho….. I’m just sayin

I know an elderly lady who not a hoarder and in no way a psychopath but she’s very lax about housework. She’s fond of saying ” clean kitchen? Dirty mind” and winking. Lol.

4light2shine,
Not to worry….messiness isn’t one of the red flags pointing to sociopathy! 🙂 Cleanliness doesn’t make one a saint either!

I am so glad you all can relate. As for the question does he have the church fooled? When we got married almost 12 years ago, he was going to a different church and denomination. He started going to my church and they accepted him because of me. Yes he was good at first, by good of course I mean he fooled some people and others I find out now only accepted him because of me. You are right, he only wants to come back so he can be around me because I hate it. He wants to punish me as much as he can and even though yes it IS stalking, try telling a judge that when he is earnestly pleading to be able to go back to the church he loves and where his “family is”. The order really didn’t keep him from church anyway. BUT it was worded that he couldn’t be within “eyes” of me. That is if even if he was already in a place and I walked in, he had to leave. So since my church is fairly small, that was too difficult for him and he was afraid I would have him arrested since I had already (to his BIG surprise) taken out the order of protection. I can’t renew the order unless he does something else to warrant it. That is I have to have “proof” and NOW he knows just what he can do so I WON’T have proof. Yes my pastor did admit he is not “right” and I HOPE he will do something. He is very passive though so not sure about that. I may end up leaving. I hate to but I am not going to subject myself to that for the rest of my life. He is already dating young girls and I would say as soon as he “snags” one he’ll bring her there to flaunt. It’s not that I care about him. I DON’T! He is just CREEPY. I am so glad to have you all here who understand. I don’t know what I would have done.

Oh and so sorry to get off topic so much. Please forgive me!

Linette, no need at all to apologise! Express what you need to when and in whatever comments you happen to be in, noone minds. Blossom really will be able to closely relate to your situation I think, but I definately see what you both have and are experiencing in the church context as deliberate stalking activity. Please be vigilant and self protective Linette and wishing you a peaceful day today.

Thank you so much Tea Light! I don’t know your stories really but hopefully as I read more I’ll be able to relate. I have been trying to read when I can and gain as much knowledge about sociopaths as I can to be able to avoid them in the future. I have had three relationships with “full-blown sociopaths” that I know of, two were marriages with a total of 22 years spent in that kind of relationship. I guess I am (or at least was) an “easy target”. I know that now. I don’t want to become “jaded” but just smart. I want to help others avoid the pain and hurt of what they do.

Linette your attitude is just what I am aiming for, to try and make sense of what happened and then to make that understanding of use in some way. Glad you decided to join the community!

Linette, Donna posts topics that have a general interest to us, where we run with them is up to us, the twists and turns are how we make them personal. I have been here a very short time, however I am getting so much from everyone here. Everyone here has made my life better.

I was on a divorce site but no one there could really relate. I was the ‘outsider’. No such judgments here. No apologies necessary. A place to vent, share, and grow.

Linette,
I totally relate to your feeling uncomfortable about your husband using your place of worship,to see you,to stalk you.Because that is what these guys are doing!!! I never realized it before replying to your earlier post!

Before I left my husband,he didn’t go to services;he listened on the phone line.And then,he was so “appreciative” of that provision that he would fall asleep!He had to listen on the phone line in the nursing home,until a nurse and her son agreed to drop him off and pick him up afterward.

The way he made use of our phone line by listening in at the nursing home,was actually a form of stalking,now that I think about it.He would listen for my voice,and if he didn’t hear it,he was immediately on the phone to one of our daughters to find out if I was sick!And he started commenting on lessons,whereas he had never done so before(never really cared to do so)~I knew then he was making his presence known!Anything to take away my peace!

The easiest solution would be to go to a different congregation~until he found out which one.Although he is in a nursing home and couldn’t follow,he knows alot of people,and he’d set somebody up who doesn’t know the situation,to let him know how I’m doing!However,there is a POWER greater than him,and it’s on MY side!

Thanks Blossom! It’s just so wrong but as you said, HE is on our side! Rough night last night, dealing subconsiously with all of this order of protection running out, him showing up etc. I know it’s a bit of a “regression” from the peace I felt while the order was in place. But I don’t like it! Tired of letting him rent space in my mind.

Linette I read somewhere that the only people we should let rent space in our heads are those who are good tenants! Serve him his eviction notice next time he disrupts your sleep.

If only that would work Tea Light! If only! I am getting better. Today was good. I am learning to really appreciate the days that I feel “free”.:)

Very interesting stuff, but I think the case is simply that there are more hoarders and psychopaths than anyone ever suspected. I think the case is not that there is any known or even suspected link between hoarding and psychopathy or pedophila for that matter. I happen to know a rich gay psthological pedofile but that does not equate with all gays are rich or psychopaths or pedofiles. I do however suspect strongly that all pedofiles are psychopaths.

Yes, I absolutely agree that all pedophiles are psychopaths. They should all be sent to one place together…a freezing cold place somewhere and never released.

My ex-husband who is the hoarder is not a spath as far as I am believing. I believe he is Borderline Personality Disorder. He is capable of understanding that and is getting counseling. I could never live around him, though. Strangely, living next door to a spath as I do for rent money is different. It has become easier for me to detach from him by stepping back and remembering what he IS no matter how he tries to ACT. The spath is actually neat to the point he throws things away…often things I have loaned him without even thinking or caring about it. That just caused me to stop loaning him my things.

But, my ex-husband, the hoarder, truly is capable of empathy and friendship most of the time if I don’t live with him. I feel sorry for him and I hope he get the right kind of counseling with the knowledge I’ve discovered by reading an article here that compared sociopaths to people with borderline PD. Now, I just let him have his “fits” and stay away from him until he can calm himself down. He truly feels bad and hopefully will improve his behaviors. The spath never feels bad. He only acts like he does. I can tell the difference now.

Linette,
Every day,EVERY MOMENT that you can push him out of your mind,to think of something peaceful,something good,is a victory for you~~and a victory against evil!

Public admission. My Father was a spath. I was not certain of this until i fell in love with one and ended up here with major heartbreak. I could not help but see all of “this” LF info-edu… in My Father. He was a hoarder too. Major. My siblings and I almost considered calling the Opray Winfrey show, LOL to help us with the house when he passed away. It was that bad. It took months to undo. Total strangers helped. It was a shock…we had no idea. In the spirit of adding to info for all, he was also a pedophile. There seem to be many disorders that are linked together.

Bluemosaic

Blue, I’m really glad you felt you could share this with us. I recently posted some background to my involvement with the narcopath, alcoholism and violence in the home, a molesting uncle. I felt lighter, and I truly hope you do too. You’ve been through so much Blue. Keep strong, keep faith in your future. Peace and love.

Hi Tea Light n Blossom,

How do I get him out of my head? Even though I am 9 months out, 2 months NC, he is still in my thoughts???!!! Do I force a peaceful visual? How does he keep ending up in my head? Is there a way to speed up removal of spath from our thoughts? Lobotomy?? LOL
I know I should have looked for article on this, but I saw reference above and I read articles in archives before. He is still there!!! Exasperating!

Bluemosaic

Bluemosaic: Thank you for sharing your struggles. I am sorry to hear about your father’s behaviors that hurt you.

This is a pretty safe place and Donna is very open to contact from any of us if we notice something that isn’t safe.

As far as getting spaths out of my head, I have to say that I don’t see it happening and I am glad. One spath who took me for an emotional ride, helped ruin my career, and just seemed to want to prove he could have what he didn’t deserve, is DEAD. He killed himself last year. I had not heard from him or seen him in a decade. It still caused me distress. I don’t think I will ever get him out of my head. It can be very frustrating.

However, I have come to look at it as a good reminder of what I don’t want to ever have going on in my life again. He was so very charming and attractive and all of that…pretending to be everything I would want. But, he was an illusion. He and the spath I “handle” now are necessary for me to seek education about them so I never miss the red flags again. Once I now know the red flags, I will know that it is time to go. No one can take our education about any subject away from us. As I read articles and sharings here from others, I can’t unlearn that. It doesn’t matter if a past spath is in my head…even a dead one. Him being in my head is a great reminder of what I will never fall for again.

Blue I guess the underlying reason why they stay in our heads disrupting our peace of mind varies considerably. Some if us are genuinely heartbroken and greiving the lost ideal. That just takes time to process. Some of us (this is my “hook”) are finding it difficult to let’s it go before feeling we really have a handle on the disorder and its associated behaviour. That takes time also, a lot if reading up. Some of us are going through legal proceedings that require preparedness and continued contact. If you are suffering heartbreak and grief Blue then there us no magic wand, but do your griefstages reading and know which stages youhave passed through and which seem to recur. Anger? Denial? Depression? It’s not a linear process, as you know, so you may go through certain aspects of the process more than once. As painful as this us, it’s necessary for you, and it’s better you are conscious and respectful if your grief than that you deny ominimise it and have it return with a vengeance down the path. You’ll be ok. Be good to Blue, Blue!

Thx Tea Light,
I am deeply saddened b/c I thought he was the love of my life. I lost the only man I thought I ever really loved deeply. I have really lost that delusion, but the greif has been alot slower. There are no ties between us. So, the only reason he is in my thoughts, I really thought he was it for me. I saw him as the best man I had ever loved, until he wasn’t.
I have had some depression lately. I think I am going throught the grief slow, due to a re-addiction. If I can lay “it” down, I think it will help release the greif and pain without leaving traces.
Thx for the clarification.

Bluemosaic

Good point Fightforwhatsright, We have the knowledge that this awful experience imbedded. I was so open with people, before he came along. I now feel suspicious of any man who looks at me. I have shut down several, just based on one comment I did not like. I would not date regardless, but at this point, I do not even entertain friendly exchange. I used to have a reputation as overly kind and friendly, I can imagine my new rep. as being shut down and rather harsh. So be it.
He may be in my head, but he is out of my life. I am sure I will never be so vulnerable to a spath again, mine was adoring and charming in the beginning too. I now see that as a red flag all loud and flaming.

Bluemosaic

I call it “my wall.”

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