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How to break a “culture of silence” – remove everyone

In another shocking case of child sex abuse, a teacher at the Miramonte Elementary School in Los Angeles was accused of playing sex games in the classroom for 20 years. The response of John Deasy, superintendent of the Los Angeles Unified School District: He removed the school’s entire staff, from the principal to the janitors.

Read John Deasy LAUSD: Superintendent has made bold decisions in face of crisis, on HuffingtonPost.com.

Mothers whose children were abused have filed suit against the school district. Read 14 moms sue LA schools in child abuse case, on MSNBC.MSN.com.

Stories suggested by Lovefraud readers.


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~~~”He acts on behalf of kids, you can’t fault him for that,” said A.J. Duffy, the former president of the teachers union United Teachers Los Angeles, who now runs a charter school. “But there are processes. People do deserve a fair and equitable hearing.”~~~

~~~Deasy also ordered principals to pull teacher misconduct files from the past 40 years. Those files are under reviewed by a special panel to determine if further action is warranted. Some 500 previously unreported cases have been forwarded so far to the state teacher licensing commission.

Teachers union President Warren Fletcher lambasted the move as a hasty and counterproductive effort to deflect attention from managerial failures.~~~

EXCELLENT article, Donna. What’s wrong with this picture? Someone sees a problem, and damn the Unions and tenets – we’re talking about HUMAN LIVES, here, not benefit packages and reputations!

Good for Deasy’s tenacity and courage. This is what needs to occur across every spectrum of every institution, be it scouting to universities.

I’m not sure how I feel about this…firing everyone in the place….because there are bound to be innocent people who had truly NO IDEA of what was going on…yet I do see the reasons behind it (firing everyone)

The whole thing is SAD SAD SAD!!!!

This situation and the results give us pause to think about solutions, punishments and how to prevent this in the first place.

The code of silence in police departments about corruption, and other groups that “keep a code of silence” (like Penn State football programs) makes me wonder if there even is a solution as long as people are “humans”—in my own family, this code of silence, the “let’s pretend none of this happened” gives me an idea that this is a widely spread part of the “coping mechinisms” of human society.

We as individuals can stop engaging in this code of silence and stand up and be heard and hopefully (though slowly I am sure) this code of silence will be changed. Look how many generations it has taken for women to be “equal” to men (and yes, I know we are not there yet) or Blacks…so it will take eons for the changes to take place, not months. But I think the ball is rollin in the right direction.

OxD, I think the “code of silence” is born of many things, but the main one is that NOBODY wants to be pegged as the “Judas” for outing someone and, perhaps, “ruining” the program, or whatever it is that’s at stake.

People also fear being named as the one that will “tattle” if someone breaks company policy or commits a violation against someone else. How many people ignore other people who are in obvious need just because they’re waiting for someone else to act?

What Deasy chose to do was extreme – I agree. But, in order for future employees to “get the message” about intolerance of abuses, policies, children, etc., it probably had to be extreme. Do something patently stupid? Lose your job – plain and simple.

And, you can bet Deasy will be villified by the Union. Anyone who rocks the proverbial boat is a danger to the structure and politics. Same as what happened with Penn State – to “do something” about Sanspathsky would have meant admitting that the athletic program was, in some way (real OR imagined) faulty, and we can’t have THAT, can we?

I do feel that harsh measures are required where children are concerned. Yeah, there are innocent people who are wrongly accused ALL of the time, and we can’t solve that problem, ever. But, I think that we can, as a society, begin moving away from reality-show-based-behaviors of tolerating bad behaviors, enabling bad behaviors, and even rewarding bad behaviors (celebrity, money, etc.) and begin moving back to integrity and accountability.

People who prey on children are the lowest of the low. Children don’t typically have a voice, even if they maintain an open communication with their parents. With predators like Sanspathsky, those predators can read that a child is needy, neglected, or needs approval and they use those vulnerabilities to perpetrate the most heinous of crimes.

“Horseplay” in the showers? Semen-tasting in a classroom? Yeah….harsh actions require harsh consequences, and it would behoove other human beings to begin standing up and saying, “This is simply WRONG.”

I was having a “discussion” with someone this morning. She related to me that a man who worked at her Head Start program was fired for failing a drug test – it was COMMON KNOWLEDGE that this man, his class aid, and another employee would frequently leave the classroom of 4-year-olds to go outside and smoke some pot during the school day. A full year prior to his dismissal, the Assistant Director found a bag of pot laying on the COUNTER in the teacher’s lounge, and this guy admitted (heresay, mind you), “Oh, my bad. It’s mine,” and picked this bag of pot up and put it in his pocket and returned to his classroom of children.

The young woman that was relaying this story to me said, “I wouldn’t have turned him in, but I would have told him that I would if I ever saw him carrying pot in the school, again.” Really? I would have reported him, immediately, simply because children’s lives are in jeopardy when people CHOOSE to do stupid things.

Just my 2 cents 🙂

Oxy, some of the “innocent” are those who believe that everybody is born good and there is good in everyone. Sound familiar?

This certainly shakes things up and brings things out into the open for discussion and action.

‘”The culture in this district has been talk, protest, argue, not actually do,” he (Dr. Deasy) said. ‘This style has come up against that.”‘

“Due process,” as so many of us have found when trying to confront our Ps in court, eventually becomes a joke of do-nothings, no changes, slaps on the wrists for punishment if punishment is ever imposed, and Ps going back to their unacceptable behavior because they know in the end, there won’t be any serious consequences. They duped the system again. They won. Yuck, yuck, yuck. We permit those types of “successes” to be craned out all the time.

If nothing changes, then nothing changes.

It goes back to that quote about “for evil to prevail, all is needed is for good men to do nothing.”

My concern, though, is the possibility of witch hunting. Unfortunately, what can happen is the pendulum will swing to such an extreme in the other direction that people overreact.

There needs to be education and policies with specific expectations of behavior along with detailed lists of consequences if the policies are overlooked or ignored. Ignorance is no excuse, either, but that it part of the education message.

I agree, Grace, about the witch hunting….remember when that day car company in LA 30 years or so ago (can’t remember the names) was accused and convicted The entire family, of molestiing kids by the hundreds, and apparently there was NO basis in it but the people were hounded and prosecuted…I think they eventually were shown innocent, but their lives were wrecked. It was like these “recovered memories” carp that went down and people were prosecuted on these faked up memories brought on by “therapists” who were nut jobs….there was NO basis in fact, but people were sent to prison over it.

After reading Dr. Anna Salter’s book, Predators http://www.amazon.com/Predators-Pedophiles-Rapists-Other-Offenders/dp/0465071732/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=utf8mb4&qid=1342295562&sr=1-1&keywords=dr+anna+salter is I think one of the best books out there about how to spot pedophiles. Of course, none of us are perfect, even Bob Hare says he gets fooled and can’t spot them without being around them enough time to see the patterns.

The witch hunts are scary, just as scary as the ignoring what is going on. We have to find a middle ground some where.

Unfortunately, you’re right, G1S, about the pendulum effect.

Perhaps, once the psychiatric/psychological community can agree on the definition and inability to treat sociopathy, the Legal System will “get it,” and so on down the line.

But, my sadness for victims of child sexual abuse is something that I have a hard time expressing. Like I said in another thread, I cannot imagine the complete and total carnage that a child experiences, on every level.

Grace, you’ve had a tough row to hoe. Brightest blessings

Thank you, Truthy. 🙂

Truthspeak I am with you on every thing you said. Everything.

While firing the whole crew seems harsh it sends a message and for those that were too asleep to know what was going on in the school then they need to wake the heck up – it is the responsibility of every teacher and every employee at the school to protect every single student and to educate them properly as well.

God Bless Mr. Deasy – may more and more like him begin to stand up. We need men like him as examples for our young men. Too often it is left to the women to set the example and young boys and men need to see a man willing to take it on the chin to defend and protect what is right and good.

Going to get that book Oxy – thanks for mentioning it!

~Breck

Breckgirl, I didn’t forget your request.

Find one of my articles here. My email address is at the end. Email me and I’ll send you what you wanted to read.

Breck,

Thanks for that article. Very insightful into what Penn State is thinking right now.

They sound like they are on overload.

I think they will take the statue down eventually.

They are absorbing so much right at the moment. Once everything sinks in, more trials happen, more stories come out, and more victims speak up, I’m betting it will turn into relief to see that thing gone.

Many of these people are going through the initial stages of what we went through when we first learned what a psychopath is, how much we could be fooled by somebody who we thought was very close to us, i.e., whom we had opened out hearts to, who we thought was honest and upfront, who held the same regard for us as we did for them, whom we loved, and whom we thought we knew extremely well.

That all fits Joe Paterno and what he did (and failed to do) to a T.

To find out what anybody is capable of doing behind our backs, while coming across to us as so sincere, it is so much to take in the first time around.

Right now, they don’t even have a name for what they are up against. They don’t even know that it has a name, and when they find out it is one of the worst that mental health professionals can ascribe to someone, they’re going to be sicker than they are right now.

Sandusky is much easier. He’s a pedophile. People have a good idea of what that means.

They haven’t even gotten past the denial stage yet. It hasn’t really sunken it. They’re a long way from acceptance.

But as they learn, and it gets through just how deep the betrayal had been and for how long it went on, the anger stage will kick in eventually. That’s when you’ll probably see the statue come down.

Grace – I just read another article that talks about Paterno – the author is a reporter and he is pissed. Your comments are spot on. As more and more people get clear about how they were duped I expect to see more of this.

You know I hope, as some have mentioned they don’t believe this will have any lasting impact, but if it moves even one person in the future to stand up against psychopathic behavior whether it is with children or others – when they might not have – then it has served some purpose even, again, if it only saves one from the horrors those kids suffered.

Here is the article – I could feel the emotion from the writer – the rage really and the self anger for his part in perpetuating the Paterno myth. http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/8162972/joe-paterno-true-legacy

Here’s another article about DOING AWAY WITH THE PENN STATE FOOT BALL PROGRAM ENTIRELY.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8163189/penn-state-cannot-allowed-football-team

I totally agree. NO FOOTBALL FOR PENN STATE for at least the duration of the cover up….about 10 years at least, maybe more.

Show other schools that they can’t cover up wrong doing and get away with it…whatever that wrong doing is.

Fantastic article, BreckGirl.

Here are a few quotes from it that I particularly liked because they sound like Class A P behavior from Joe:

“…Here’s his true legacy: Paterno let a child molester go when he could’ve stopped him. He let him go and then lied to cover his sinister tracks. He let a rapist go to save his own recruiting successes and fundraising pitches and big-fish-small-pond hide.

“… Just to recap: By not acting, a grown man failed to protect eight boys from years of molestation, abuse and self-loathing, all to save his program the embarrassment.

“…I tweeted that, yes, Paterno should be fired, but that he was, overall, ‘a good and decent man.’ I was wrong. Good and decent men don’t do what Paterno did. Good and decent men protect kids, not rapists. And to think Paterno comes from ‘father’ in Italian.

“…This throws a can of black paint on anything anybody tells me about Paterno from here on in. ‘No NCAA violations in all those years.’ I believe it. He was great at hiding stuff. ‘He gave $4 million to the library.’ In exchange for what? ‘He cared about kids away from the football field.’ No, he didn’t. Not all of them. Not when it really mattered.”

I emailed the author my little effort below to get the word out:

============================

This is a really great article. Thank you for being so honest.

Are you aware that Joe Paterno’s behavior that you described fits a certain category of psychopath? He exhibits classic psychopathic behavior. All psychopathy is narcissistic.

Society is aware of psychopathic behavior of violent serial rapists and murderers because of Hollywood’s frequent and easy depiction of those monsters. Part of that awareness is due to researchers’ access to prison populations.

There are in fact different types of psychopaths. Conservative estimates put their prevalence at 1-4% of the population, or 1 out of 100 or 1 out of 25.

There is one class, particularly insidious, that has gone under-reported because much of their behavior is admired by society. They are affable, glib, charming, convincing, lovable, deemed worthy of hero-worship and admiration, at least on the surface, while narcissistically operating with secret, exploitive agendas and motives unrecognizable and not believed by most.

A few recommendations for you, if you’d like more information –

“Snakes in Suits-When Psychopaths Go to Work” by Paul Babiak, Ph.D. and Robert Hare, Ph.D.,

“Without Conscience-The Disturbing World of Psychopaths Among Us,” by Robert Hare, Ph.D. (who has developed a Psychopath Checklist used worldwide.)

“Sociopaths Next Door” by Martha Stout, Ph.D.,

http://www.lovefraud.com

http://www.aftermath-surviving-psychopathy.org

Finally, please, don’t let the information stop here. There is so much more that you can do as a writer to make things different going forward.

Sincerely,

============================================

Oxy, LOVE your idea of no football for Penn State to equal the number of years they covered up the abuse.

The article you posted is great, too.

Nike has removed Joe Paterno’s name from its children’s center.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8160568/nike-takes-joe-paterno-name-child-care-center-company-headquarters

Here is an article of what the deniers are saying and doing:

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigten/post/_/id/53097/psu-fans-staying-loyal-to-joe-paterno

“We’re saying it doesn’t make him a bad person. He could have done more. We all know that. But think about everything that he’s done for Penn State. You can’t just make him out to be a bad person for one thing he did, when he’s done so much for this university.”

One thing? He did a lot more than just “one thing.”

People who focus on the “good” he did, don’t understand spaths. Spaths do good for SELF-SERVING reasons. This is revealed by the fact that they do good in public and evil in the dark. That is the definition of a spath: hypocrite.

Jesus told us, don’t be hypocrites like the Pharisees, who make a big show of their piety when they bring sacrifices to the temple. Jesus said to do good things in secret where only our Father in heaven could see and reward.

Truly good people are boring. It’s good to be boring.

Amen, Skylar. You are absolutely right.

By the way, we’ve been talking about Joe Paterno here, but this thread is about parents suing the LA school system for not taking action against a teacher molesting the students.

In yet another and different case of a LA teacher sexually abusing students and the school district doing nothing about it, read the link below.

This time, it is two female elementary students suing a teacher.

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/07/14/12745022-students-sue-former-teacher-charged-with-sexual-abuse-in-la-area?lite

One hopes that schools everywhere will start paying attention to this problem and get rid of these teachers instead of enabling them.

Silence is not always golden.

G1 – I am dumbstruck! I started to write the author of the article as you did but I was so tired that I gave up and came here and posted it for you all to see. You must have read my intent and completed the task for me! 🙂

I’m not ignoring your email by the way – I’m packing my house to move and want to give it a good uninterrupted read before I respond… xoxox Breckgirl

Skylar… I don’t know if I could qualify as truly good – I am definitely a flawed and very mortal person…but your words made me laugh and yes feel good too as I had sent a friend a message earlier today about how I am a happy boring person and fully intend to stay boring!

🙂

Breck,
if you are predisposed to have compassion for the less fortunate, then IMO, you’re good enough. Being boring is just the cherry on top! lol.

This is an EXCELLENT ARTICLE about the Penn State culture of narcissism.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/15/us/triponey-paterno-penn-state/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

I just wish SOMEBODY would use the word psychopathic culture, but nobody gets it.

“I must insist that the efforts to put pressure on us and try to influence our decisions related to specific cases … simply MUST STOP,” she wrote. “The calls and pleas from coaches, board members and others when we are considering a case are indeed putting us in a position that does treat football players differently and with greater privilege … and it appears on our end to be a deliberate effort to use the power of the football program to sway our decisions in a way that is beneficial to the football program.”

“I am very troubled by the manipulative, disrespectful, uncivil and abusive behavior of our football coach,” she wrote. “It is quite shocking what this man — who is idolized by people everywhere — is teaching our students.”

At the final meeting, Triponey urged the coach to advise his players to tell the truth. Paterno said angrily that he couldn’t force his players to “rat” on each other since they had to practice and play together. Curley and Spanier backed him up on that point, she said.

Special treatment is a HUGE HUGE HUGE RED FLAG. The concept of “ratting on each other” is what makes cops toe the thin blue line. The concept of integrity is gone and instead it’s all about the team.

FANTASTIC article, Sky. Thanks.

There are statements in there that could be just as easily applied to the US political parties.

“‘The culture is deep,’ she said. ‘The culture is making decisions based on how others will react, not based on what’s right and wrong.’ It focused on the interests of those at ‘the top of the chain,’ she added. ‘Others at the bottom didn’t matter.'”

Mr. Wonderful wasn’t wonderful in many areas.

“She noted that Paterno preferred to keep the public in the dark about player infractions involving violence, and he pushed for not enforcing the student code of conduct off campus…

“…Tensions reached the breaking point in 2007 over how to discipline half a dozen players who’d been arrested at a brawl at an off-campus apartment complex. Several students were injured; one beaten unconscious.

“Triponey met with Paterno and other university officials half a dozen times, although she preferred to remain neutral as the appeals hearing officer.

“At the final meeting, Triponey urged the coach to advise his players to tell the truth. Paterno said angrily that he couldn’t force his players to ‘rat’ on each other since they had to practice and play together. Curley and Spanier backed him up on that point, she said.

“Triponey recommended suspensions; Paterno pushed for community service that included having the team clean up the stadium for two hours after each home game.

“In the end, four players were briefly suspended during the off-season. They didn’t miss a game.”

Sky, they’re not using “psychopathic culture” because they don’t know what psychopath means. My guess is that they wouldn’t even conceive that a psychopathic culture could even exist.

Don’t forget that most of the world thinks Ps are all violent serial rapists and murderers with scary eyes and easily recognizable. They don’t have cultures. They’re rare aberrations that pop up every once in a while. There aren’t that many of them, you know, and most of them are in prison, thank goodness. BLEH!

That’s why I sent the email that I did to that author explaining about psychopaths. It’s safe to assume that the world really doesn’t think along those line because they don’t know. The word hasn’t spread enough yet.

Breckgirl, I await your thoughts.

Regarding that author, if you want to copy and paste what I wrote into an email and send that to him, please do. Maybe if he hears from enough people about psychopaths, he’ll look into the subject.

Good luck with your moving!

G1S,
You’re right, they just don’t know like we do.
It’s so frustrating to see people living my life over again.

the ignorance is frustrating.

HOW do we DEFINE psychopaths to people who are determined never to see it?

I wonder if Vicky would see it. Her life was ruined for many years because of psychopaths. It was only the luck of this HUGE media disclosure that brought light on it. Will she ever know that she experienced a spath?

I hope she does and WRITES A BOOK ABOUT IT.

Breck,
I saw your comment: “wow just wow! they have not learned a thing.”

EXACTLY.

how is it possible? Cog/Diss should dissipate after a certain point. The point where you are shown emphatically that you WERE WRONG!

These people don’t give a flying fuck, about wrong or right. They know that time changes the way people think/percieve.

Let’s prove them wrong. Let’s make such a stink that nobody stops thinking and feeling the slime. Not ever. Let’s make a change — and not the obama kind of change.

Skylar, my job includes having the skill of “dealing with the resistance to change.”

The approach is not to even waste time on the people who are “determined not to see it.”

You work with the people who are most interested. The people who volunteer or come forward by asking questions. You tap into their enthusiasm. You give them the information. You teach the receptive audience.

What then happens is they pass this information along to others. Others see their enthusiasm, which is catching. A lot of people wait to see what others think. They don’t want to take the risk of appearing foolish, but if braver souls have been sold on the subject, then they’re open to hearing what’s so great about it. In other words, it isn’t your enhusiasm that convinces them, it’s the enthusiasm of the initial converts.

If you think of this first group as the top tier, you convince them, and they, in turn, convince the tier beneath them, who, in turn, convinces the tier beneath them. It is a snowball effect

The people who are determined not to accept your message are at the bottom tier. They may never change. On the other hand, once they see that everybody else is convinced, they may come around.

There is nothing that you can do about those who have already made up their minds and won’t budge so don’t even waste your energy on them. Target the ones who seem the most receptive. It’s less work for you. You can keep things simple and friendly.

Eventually,a lot of people will end up being convinced if the message is clear and well delivered.

You’re right – you need to go after the people who are at least willing to listen.

G1 – what an amazing concept to add to the conversation here at LoveFraud…

Here is a video on social and technological change…

This tool of course has been used by government to control citizenry via using a crisis and then offering a solution designed to guide us away from what we would choose naturally and towards what they want us to choose which is in my opinion not benign or good for us but rather good for them… But as we all know we have the nuts running the asylum.

Anyway – here is a snippet on the concept:

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=early+adopters+and+change&view=detail&mid=ED14A3D0262C0F8134C7ED14A3D0262C0F8134C7&first=0

And we can use these same tools to fight back whether it is the culture in the university ir the culture of death and corruption in our government.

We are the early adopters and second wave here and we need to educate the rest…

I smelled a spath in the Zimmerman case from the very beginning. His obsession with law enforcement and need to “play cop” was a HUGE RED FLAG. My spath has the exact same obsession.

Now it’s starting to be revealed that Zimmerman is a manipulative liar and the cops gave him a free pass after the murder because he had connections. This is exactly what spaths do. They always have connections so they can get away with murder.
http://news.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-case-mystery-man-george-zimmerman-cop-195623754.html?_esi=1

Edit: oh jeez, there’s more. total spath.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-accused-molesting-girl-children/story?id=16786905

Skylar, a friend of Zimmerman’s family is claiming that he molested her over a 10 year period.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/zimmerman-witness-sexual-molestation-160900334.html

He was also accused of bullying a fellow employee.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-bullied-colleague-complaint/story?id=16658024

We know that he feels the law doesn’t apply to him or he would have stayed in his car when he was told to stay put and his help was not needed. Trayvon Martin would be alive today if Zimmerman had done what he was told.

Breckgirl, you are right. We are the first wave and second wave. We can get the word out.

Grace,
yeah I saw that. The abcnews link goes to that information.
I’m ashamed to say that I couldn’t decide who was in the wrong for a while. Now I see the total spath in Zimmerman.

Not saying that Treyvon Martin was an innocent. I don’t know anything about him because he’s dead. But I do know a spath when I smell one and Zimmerman stinks.

I agree with so many of the above posts. I would like to chime in on my appreciation for the school superintendent in LA. Bravo!

Post 9/11 I was jobless. I passed out cheese at the local supermarket and then I began a subsitute teacher position in my local school district. This district has one of the top 50 high schools in the country. Academically, extremely successful.

I did notice an incredible level of apathy with many of the teachers however. I noticed that they appeared to have no interest in many of the behavioral problems with the students. I also noticed this with most of the school administration. No one seemed to stand up to the bullies that I recognized immediately in the classroom. Violence gets my attention.

My point here is not to anger any teachers as my sister has been one for over 30 years and I have two good friends that are special ed teachers. I admire the people that choose to do this profession for the pay that most receive. However, I do think once again as I posted on this blog we are also seeing a huge apathy epidemic in our culture.

Mr Deasy probably figures that SOMEONE knew about this guy but didnt take the time to report his 20 year “odd” behavior to the administration.

So what is it? Apathy gone crazy or has psychopathy taken over our culture and we are not noticing? Perhaps both.

Oh, and about George Zimmerman and all the other “strange” people that do seem to gather in Florida.

No offense Floridians…but come on.

Follow the trail. Look at the histories of these folks that are in the news, causing havoc in their families, yelling the loudest in the group.

Robert Hare states that even he has trouble spotting a pathological in prison. Really? Then we have no chance. Does he not have this persons’ rap sheet? Ask a few questions about jobs, family, and education and we might get a clue.

The longer I educate myself about personality disordered people the more I wonder how the heck I missed all of the red flags. Many are extremely deceitful, but in this day and age, there is little excuse for one getting away with any long term “con.”

The internet should become our best friend. “When people show you who they are – believe them.” Maya Angelou

sorry I am late —- we need extemes like John Deasy initially until we can settle in the middle of the road. He is the 2×4 between they eyes that gets our attention. He had the guts to set a standard and say “enough”. I wish he could have nipped it in the bud sooner to keep kids out of harms way.

It’s late and need to get to bed…work tomorrow…am bookmarking all links listed in this thread to read later. Interesting Zimmerman has lagged for so long that another truth comes out…he’s also a pedophile. It makes me sick. But…also interesting this high profile revelation is coming on the heels of Penn State. Maybe this will catch people’s attention because they are already processing the fallout from Penn State and a collective light bulb will go off in the public’s heads. Perfect timing for education…

Hello friends…this is very off topic here, but wasn’t sure where to post….I am having some issues I hope you can help me with…being a Christian sometimes I have a problem with the fact that I have TOTALLY severed all contact with the bio and step path daughters..I have had such peace without either of them in my life for the last 9 months, however, I have these little twinges sometimes like…..what if something terrible happened to one of them ?? Would I eat myself alive with guilt, would I be punished for having dis owned them? The oldest one is my flesh and blood child. It is fleeting and hits me at the oddest times….it’s almost like a flash of panic …has anyone else experienced this when they had to go NC with a family member? Does it ever go away….or have any of you actually lost someone after going NC ? and how did you feel afterward….I guess Mother’s always feel guilty in one way or another…It’s like I can’t have them in my life or they suck the very life blood out of me….but it also feels wrong in my gut to cut them out of my life totally….I know I can’t go back, but I wish I could just make peace with these feelings….am I normal???? Love you guys…..

Creampuff, I undersand the issues of “guilt” when experiencing the beauties of peace and tranquility. THIS is directly related to “shame-core.”

I can’t say that my “twinges” ever “go away.” But, the depth of the twinges become less and less intrusive in my life.

You cannot have them in your life because they are Soul Suckers. Parasites of the Soul. Soul-stealers. Soul-wreckers. And perversions of humanity.

The “peace” with your feelings may be assisted through strong counseling therapy, Creampuff. These are issues that no religion, no philosophy, no one approach can help us with – we are not equipped to manage losing a child and a step-child to “death-by-sociopathy.” Although I cannot speak from personal reference, I must believe that the sudden death of a child has some sort of closure – there is a memorial, a burial, a mourning process, etc. But, the “death” of a child who is clearly a sociopath (my son is spath, absolutely) has NO closure. There is no memorial service. There is no “cause of death.” There is nothing to help us process this event.

Today, I still mourn the “loss” of my eldest son, but I realize that, just as if he had lost his life, suddenly, I had no control over his sociopathy. Yes, it’s sad. But, the sadness becomes less, and less keen over time.

Brightest blessings

Creampuff,
I’ve had the same thoughts about my family members.

Then I think, something awful has already happened to them: They are spaths. The only thing worse that can happen is that you supply them. It’s much better for them to be NC’d than to be enabled in being spaths. It’s better for us and it’s better for them.

Congratulations on achieving peace.

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