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Introducing the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide

A few days ago on the Lovefraud Blog, readers were discussing the problem of therapists who do not truly understand the sociopath. Here are some excerpts from the online conversation:

Matt says:

That’s the problem therapists who just do not get it. I saw mine the other day and told him I had posted on this site. I told him how helpful the bloggers on this site had been. He started the “if you would come in more often, our therepeutic relationship would allow you to yada yada yada.”

I finally stopped him cold and told him bluntly “Have you ever been victimized by a sociopath? Have you ever had your life turned upside down by one? Because if you haven’t you don’t have a clue what it’s about. You can read all the medical texts you want and you will still never get it.”

Healing Heart says:

My therapist – who is a highly experienced and well-esteemed clinician in the area (I had to pull some strings to get an appointment with her), does not get it. It’s clear. She thinks I’m “thinking in black and white” and “pathologizing” him by saying things like he’s “a sociopath” and “he’s evil.” She thinks that with treatment, he might get better. He’s been in treatment for years—and it’s made him a better sociopath. He now can use psycho-babble to explain his behavior, and repeatedly refers to the trauma in his childhood as what “makes” him do what he does. It gives him a great excuse, which he uses, expertly, in his pity plays. He does have trauma. Bad trauma. But most people have some trauma, and most with bad trauma are not Sociopaths. They may be troubled, but there’s a big difference between troubled and sociopathic behavior.

Rune says:

About your experience with your own therapist, I think one BIG factor is that the therapist is trained to look at the person in the room as the person with the problem. They aren’t trained to consider that the person in the room for therapy is there because they are the mutilated result of the behavior of a truly disordered personality who is not only not in the room, but somewhere out there merrily violating new victims.

Healing Heart says:

Hi Rune – yes, I that’s right “they are trained to look at the person in the room as the person with the problem.” Absolutely. That was a challenge for me with both my friends and my therapist while I was still in the relationship. I’d be trying to get support, and people would ask me, “What’s your part in this? How can you communicate better?” and even say things like, “you need to worry less about his behavior and be more concerned with your part of the dynamic.” Normally that’s useful advice. But when someone is in a relationship with a sociopath, it’s the worst advice! We need to see them for what they are, STOP doubting, judging ourselves, and get the hell out.

To read the entire conversation, go to Radar not for the sociopath, but for the wrong people, and scroll down to the comments dated Saturday, 20 December 2008.

Normal rules do not apply

Sociopaths are not normal human beings. Therefore, therapy that is appropriate for other psychological issues is totally inappropriate when someone is entangled with a sociopath.

Likewise, divorce from a sociopath is not like a normal divorce. It’s not two people going their separate ways; it’s war, in which the sociopath wants to annihilate his or her spouse. When children are involved, it’s not a case in which both parents really want what is best for the kids. It’s about the sociopath using the children as clubs to beat the crap out of the other parent for the next 18 years.

The rules of normal human interaction do not apply when dealing with sociopaths. Unfortunately, not all of the professionals we turn to as we try to extricate ourselves from these relationships understand that.

When we’re leaving a sociopath, we need help. But we need the right help. So today, Lovefraud is embarking on an effort to locate the professionals who can provide it.

Introducing the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide

For the past five months, Lovefraud has been building the structure of a searchable online database. It includes the following categories of professionals:

  • Therapists (psychologists, psychiatrists, social workers, etc.)
  • Lawyers
  • Child advocates (guardians ad litem, child and family investigators)
  • Private investigators
  • Forensic accountants
  • Expert witnesses
  • Social service organizations

This will be a database of experts who get it when it comes to sociopaths. How will this happen? The Resources Guide will be based on your recommendations. Every professional listed in the database must be referred by a client or another expert on sociopaths.

Yes, many of you have had bad experiences with professionals who were clueless when it came to sociopaths. But others of you have found professionals who believed you, understood what you were talking about and gave you good advice. Those are the people that we want in the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide.

Cries for help

Just about every week, Lovefraud receives e-mail from people who are looking for these resources. Here are some samples:

“I need a good lawyer who can help me divorce a handsome, charming, Harvard-educated sociopath…someone who would understand, someone who would know how to handle him.”

“She has repeatedly come in and out of my life for the past 17 yrs. whenever she has had the impulse, stating that I am the ‘love of her life’ and subsequently left me emotionally shattered each time. I would like to stop this cycle of appeasement on my end, and heal myself. I wonder if you can recommend any Psychiatrists/Psychologists that specialize in the treatment of sociopath/psycopath relationship victims.”

“I am truly grateful for the information and encouragement your work offers folk like myself. I am from New Jersey, and would like you to refer me and my children to strong custody legal representation, who understand the sociopath and can help me through what has become a bitter battle for our children well being. My son is at risk of becoming his father.”

“I have been to three counselors and to a Domestic Violence Shelter only to find that I am not getting the help that I need. Just last week I was pleading with the Shelter that Psychopaths are the highest manipulators and that I could benefit from group counseling. I had been referred but one counselor indicated that they would not speak about P’s. I know that I need to unravel some items so that I can move forward and I have been to counselors that have helped me in the past on different issues; however, this is so specialized that I can’t seem to find the right place to help me.”

These people, and thousands of others like them, need help. Here is your chance to provide it. If you know of a professional who can be a solid advocate for the victim of a sociopath, please tell Lovefraud.

It doesn’t matter where you are. Sociopaths are everywhere, so resources are needed everywhere. Lovefraud has received requests from all over the United States—Colorado, California, Georgia, Pennsylvania, New York, Florida, Michigan, New Jersey, Illinois, Arizona, Missouri, South Carolina and more states.

We’ve also received inquiries from Canada, the United Kingdom, Ireland, Australia and New Zealand. The Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide will list service providers located in all of these countries.

Please make a referral

Right now, however, the database is empty, except for the Lovefraud author Steve Becker, LCSW.

The database needs your input. So here’s what to do. Go to the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide. On that page, you’ll find a link and button to make a reader referral. Click it, and you’ll see a short online form to fill out. It asks for the professional’s contact information, and why you recommend him or her.

Once we’ve received your referral, we will contact the professional and invite him or her to be part of the directory. There is a low fee associated with participating in the directory—only $24.50 for the first year. This will help defray the expense of operating Lovefraud (advertising revenue doesn’t come close to covering the costs). We’re hoping the Resources Guide will even generate enough money to fund other projects—like mounting an effort to educate people about sociopaths.

Listings for bona fide social service organizations are free. However, the organizations must still be recommended by clients. Even some people running domestic violence shelters, as indicated by the letter above, don’t understand sociopaths. We want the agencies that do.

Many of you have said you want to help other victims of sociopaths. This is your opportunity. If you know of effective professionals, please submit the referral by filling out the form. Make as many referrals as you can. To help even further, please let the professionals know that you’ve recommended them. That way, when our e-mail arrives, the professionals will know what it is about.

More initiatives

Lovefraud has planned more new initiatives for the New Year as well. We’ll soon be launching the Lovefraud Store, featuring books by our authors and other recommended reading. And we’ll have new authors posting on the blog. One of them is Kathleen Hawk, who has offered insightful comments about her own healing journey after involvement with a sociopath under the user name “khatalyst.” You’ll see her first article on Sunday.

Lovefraud has come very far in 2008, thanks to all of you. I hope 2009 will be even better for all of us.

Happy New Year!


Comment on this article

57 Comments on "Introducing the Lovefraud Professional Resources Guide"

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Deo Gracias.

This will be so useful. Thanks for the effort. Go LF!

Next we need a psycho registry!

Americas most Psyco !

Donna Anderson Hosts

Have You seen this man ? NAVY SEAL ! Sensai NSP !:)~

Secret Agent For NCIS , No Credit , no car , no money???

Ha LOVE JJ

Great Idea. Go for it. It may be that eventually there can also be support groups that can be recommended.

The most helpful resource for me has been read, study, read, study, read! Most of us are busy, and therapists/counselors etc. take a lot of time out of our already busy lives. If you’re raising kids, nursing parents and maintaining a decent standard of living, how do you find the time? It would certainly be helpful if one could find a therapist without wasting time on those who just don’t get N/S/P.

Then there’s the lawyers, investigators, and other professionals needed to legally disentangle from a N/S/P. You’d like to think most of these people would have a clue, but God help you if you’ve wasted money you really don’t have on one who doesn’t understand N/S/P.

You’ve got my support. I’ll keep my ear to the ground for you. Maybe I’ll find a few professionals to refer.

My therapist was totally clueless when it came to sociopaths…. Definately go forward with this idea…I think they should teach it in our schools too…Instead of requiring Algebra and Geometry create a required class on how to identify an exploitive personality… It would be so much more practical!!!

This is terrific, Donna, thank you! I’m going to see who I can find in this area. HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

Donna,

This is a great idea, and I hope it does go well. Your fee is small and reasonable and I hope it doesn’t deter people from signing up.

Since paying a small fee every month is such a hassle for someone who is busy, is it possible to maybe ALSO have a one-time “lifetime membership” fee? I belong to several organizations and I find that paying a one-time fee (reasonable) is easier than having to pay dues each year or each month or “renew” every so often.

Dear Donna,

I am happy to see this.

Since we all have studied this issue in depth, up close and personal, I propose that we all go back to school and become the experts on paper because we already are the experts in real life! (I’m only joking… or am I?)

I will keep my radar up on this.

Looking forward to all that 2009 brings to LoveFraud Land and beyond.

Elise

High Conflict Institute

Would be my First recomendation and then The LF Fireplace! :)~

Oh how I wish I had seen this website before losing $40,000 in attorney fees, losing my business and my reputation. My mother appointed me Durable Power of Attorney and my siblings did unbelievable things up until she died and even now has sued me again. I proved forgery and perjury and the judges just say the kids should try to get along. Courts went from Kay County, to Payne County to Noble County with so many special judges and the siblings hired eleven different attorneys. A nightmare. The head of DHS for the State of Oklahoma got involved and did nothing when proven the harrassment.

The attorney I hired for my Mother, said my siblings were sociopaths and he has been in business in Ponca City for many years and was even a judge. He told me in all the years of practice, he never saw anything so evil.

Right now after finally getting the court to allow the handwritting expert testimony and all the evidence, the judge looked at me and said no one will like his ruling. I thought my goodness what in the world is wrong here.

I went to couciling and the lady did get in my face and say wake up, it is called greed and hate. You might laugh here as my husband always said my family was crazy and hated me but I could not believe it. I felt sorry for them.

The State of Oklahoma has spent at least a half million on this case and I am still in Court. My home was broken into, my daughter attacked while I was gone, warning letters were written to my friends and family not to help me, I was accused of a crime, they took over my credit card with forged documents, ect. ect.

Not one attorney within 100 miles will tough this as even the siblings filed with the bar association against my attorney. It is probably the most talked about case ever in this area.

I would love to walk away and in fact, I left town one time when I heard I was supenied to court as I knew how to court works in not allowing all the truth.

It has been three weeks since the judge in Stillwater said he would rule and my hope is that maybe he will finally put a stop to this.

I do know now that my Dad was a problem that hurt my brother and sister in a terrible way. Also, I had to get help for me from a professional outsider and my Christian friends really helped me. In fact, if it were not for God, I know I would not have made it.

If I had one bit of advice after going through so much, it would be to not allow yourself to dwell on the horrific events. Wake up everyday thankful and know that to think about it gives the Sociopath your joy. Yes, you cannot hide your head in the sand and even now I have to again work with an attorney – but each time now that I go to Court, they get more upset when they see that I am not upset. Guess that makes me feel better somehow.

Florist: I’m on line as you wrote … so I just wanted to welcome you to the site. What you wrote is a very sore subject for me, because I was involved with the court system for years and had two attorneys I thought were working in my best interest … to find out they both made deals that benefited themselves (selfish pricks), behind my back. Horrific to say the least.

I did find a decent attorney when my life went into “crash and burn” mode … due to everyone’s GREED being the catalyst of why they were all in my life smiling to my face … and she’s been helping me get things straightened out.

It’s incredible how many vicious vampires practice law!

I’ll let others blog with you. Rest assure, you came to the right place. Stay with us and will help you get through this mess that was dumped into your life.

Sorry to hear you had to go through all of this crapolla.

Peace.

Dear Florist,

I can definitely relate to your family attacking you in every way possible. No sense in telling and retelling my entire story (novel length by now, as I am sure yours is too) (smile)

It is horrible, and unbelieveble, yes, GREED and HATE and MONEY, all mixed in a pot and stirred and you have vitrol.

“Bless your heart” (I live in Arkansas) and God bless you, in your struggle with evil itself. It would just be nice if they would leave us alone, but they won’t. Protect yourself, and hang on…”All things work together for good to those that love the Lord”…stay here and read and learn about them, it isn’t about YOU, and it isn’t “personal” (though I know that is hard to believe since you are in their cross-hairs) it is the HATE and it is aimed at anyone or anything that gets int he way of what they want. Obviously in this case it is money. I have a P son that I disinherited, and he was after my elderly mother’s money and my life. Be careful, you never know to what ends (even murder) that they will go to. Not all do, b ut I have learned not to put anything passed them. (((hugs))))

“When we’re leaving a sociopath, we need help. But we need the right help. So today, Lovefraud is embarking on an effort to locate the professionals who can provide it.”

I believe this is something that is really really needed. I feel I could be a poster child for therapy and all there is that is good and all that can come from it. I know without therapy I wouldn’t be the person I am today. It has allow me to build strong convictions and character which in turn allowed me to express and deal with all my childhood abuse and pain. I believed in therapy so much that when I started to see all the problems my ex and I were having I wanted and did go to therapy with her. But guess what dear readers it didn’t work. This confuse me because I seen it work over and over again in my own personal life and others when in group therapy. Why didn’t it work this time? Why didn’t it work with us? I now believe because S/P just like their relationship find ways to use it and manipulate it. It’s like instead of learning “from it” as a tool they instead learn “of” it. Like a hammer which can be used to build something it also can be use to destroy something. It all depends on the user of the tool and not the tool itself. From therapy we learn new skills to open up to ourselves and others and allow all the pain to be resolved or worked on. But S/P only learn how to use it to conceal more of themselves and learn how to use these emotions in a more skillful artificer way. In short readers S/P use it for whatever they want the most and many times it allow them to be more of a accomplish pathological liar actor manipulator or whatever then before they started therapy. Which is no doubt why some people tell us that therapy can make them even worst instead of better from their time spend in a therapy environment.

I’m all for it! It would be nice to have the same resources for attorneys. I think we have all had our bouts with inept or just down right stupid lawyers. I read as much here as I can, & just finished “Without Conscience”. It was a realy good source of info. So much has been gained by all of us here who are in the LF Family, I say take it to the next level.

Great to hear about the many new projects coming out from LoveFraud! Count me in if I find any leads for the database…

Thanks for doing this. I will look for the number of the counselor who helped me over the phone during the toughest time. She “got it” before I did and steered me in the right direction.

Dealing with attorneys and judges is like dealing with sociopaths galore, and it is even worse when the opposing party is also sociopath. We get PTSD from the relationship, but also PTSD from insane courtroom antics.
Recovering from the trauma personally is important obviously for our survival, but what if we hold too much dignity to allow the legal abuse to be unavenged? As we suffer legally caused PTSD the perpetrators go on to their next victims. As we financially pay the price of being coerced into their game, those attorneys and judges just laugh all the way to the bank with their salaries over triple what the average litigant earns. Most just tell us we did this to ourselves by getting into a situation that required court assistance, and this is the key to recovering from legal abuse syndrome – empower ourselves daily with interpersonal and financial tools as a semblance of revenge, but it will also keep us out of the system forever. Don’t engage in any business or contract with anyone – keep everyone at arm’s length. This way attorneys will never again make your life miserable or take all of your money. Earn as little as possible so you pay as few taxes as possible and buy next to nothing. By not paying fewer taxes, you are limiting your support of the courtrooms and the judges’ salaries. Courtrooms are the sites of the legal abuse fraud – attorneys exploit our faith in the system and use the taxpayer-funded courtrooms to pad their own pockets. By buying as little as possible, you are withholding profits from companies who employ attorneys, and finally by buying as little as possible, you are not the only one paying those outrageous attorney fees, the businesses, who do without your consumption, are also paying those attorney fees. Finally, never call in to Amber alerts or assist law enforcement, your disenfranchisement created by bad courtroom procedures backfires upon the entire system.

Hi Donna,
I have so much admiration for your site. I wish you best of luck and success in anything you can do to spread the word about the damage sociopaths do. Here are a couple of suggestions on this project:
1 – You might want to consult with a lawyer on this referral project. If your site is being viewed as recommending these clinicians, you may be held liable if something goes wrong. Just saying…..
2 – If I were you, I would personally interview these clinicians to determine if they “get it.” Don’t take it for granted from a referral. That way you can apply your own best judgment. Or, alternatively, offer the ads to anyone and put in a disclaimer that you are not personally recommending these clinicians.
3 – I have experiences with poorly trained clinicians who have been misled by sociopaths, or who have poor boundaries themselves and are taken advantage of by sociopaths, or who are simply “clueless” for whatever reason when it comes to sociopaths. I know poor clinicians exist. I also have experiences with excellent clinicians who “get it.” I guess my point is that it’s not always easy to know which clinicians falls into which category, and I worry about the quality of the referrals.
4 – My experience with good clinicians is that they will try to avoid labeling the behavior of a person with whom they are not acquainted (such as the sociopathic spouse of the client). They may label the behavior but they will be very hesitant to label the person. I think this is a smart and cogent choice on their part. In my experience, a therapist who instantly validates a client’s opinion that an ex-spouse or partner is a sociopath is not a good therapist. It may feel good to hear that validation, and to believe the therapist is on your side, but ultimately it’s very superficial and suggests that the therapist is not looking at your case very deeply. Keep in mind what would happen if the sociopath went to a therapist and complained (blatantly lied) that YOU are the sociopath. That happens many times. Would you want the therapist to instantly validate and agree with the sociopath’s opinion (lie)? Of course not. This, too, happens many many times and for that reason I think many therapists are careful about putting labels on people, at least openly, but that does not mean they are ineffective therapists.

I meant to say good clinicians try to avoid labeling (or diagnosing) the person with whom they are not acquainted. They will label the behavior but not the person.

Hi from the North (eh!),

I found my sanity here, no professional, lawyer or people I knew could name it; the sociopath.

Pheww! Great initiative on the Resource Site- my ears are on!

I am learning how to deal with my child’s father (unidentified sociopath) during our custody/separation process. The most disturbing lesson so far is that the justice system is often not just to children. I need to find a way to locate a lawyer who has lived the sociopathic experience personally. (We know that the sociopath experience can not be understood until lived). Open to tips, techniques, words, etc if you wish to share.

A Canadian Mother
Dedicated to Getting Smarter for our Children

MY childs hope

Check out High conflict Institute

Dear Canadian Mother,

Since there is not yet a resource center here or another one I know of, you might contact a local women’s abuse shelter or see if there is an attorney in your area that specializes in custody cases and interview them to see if you can find one that DOES GET IT. You might get lucky.

Good luckk and welcome to lovefraud. This is a healing place.

The problem with the “professionals” is that they don’t know that they don’t know.

I was visiting a long standing Domestic Violence Shelter agency in Silicon Valley this morning as part of my job (finding resources).

I decided to ask if they had any therapists that understood about Sociopaths and other disorders. The Director just about shut me down. She informed me that Domestic Violence is “learned behavior” and if we were to “blame it” on a personality disorder then we would not be holding the abuser accountable for his behavior.

The more I think about it, the more misguided she sounded. I didn’t say anything about not holding them accountable. I didn’t say anything about the fact that they just don’t care either. She was talking down to me like I didn’t know anything and I didn’t feel prepared to take that on.

We have work cut out for us.

Is this really the accepted “truth” about abusers? That it is learned? It can be but do they really think it’s that simple.

For a moment, I thought, what do I know about DV anyway? Bad Man never hit me so maybe he wasn’t one of THEM… but wait… he DID hit his ex-wife. She told me herself. So he IS one of them… and he DEFINATELY belongs here at LF!

But what do I know?

And how separate is emotional/financial/psychological abuse from physical abuse?

Donna – what is the best way to contact you to give you the name & number of a qualified “gets it” therapist in my city?

[email protected]

She always answers this.

Aloha: You ran into exactly the brick wall that I found. Precisely. These are people who SHOULD be held accountable, but the legal system, the social system, and the entrenched DV community with their dogma cannot see that these are people who WILL NOT be held accountable, because they always have a way to weasel. Or as they are doing the UNTHINKABLE!!! (OMG!!!) society/justice system/DV system says, “That’s unthinkable. They didn’t just do that. It must not have happened.” And they go back to their, “Swear to tell the truth” litmus test, and send the perps to counseling, and ignore the whole notion of pathologicals among us.

This willful blindness almost amounts to “And if we all hold hands, and wish REALLY REALLY HARD that everyone will be a nice person, then . . .”

Um, and as the “most experienced counselor” at the DV shelter said to me after she’d had a week to think about my story and work on resources for me, “Have you thought about talking with him?”

Yeah. The work is definitely defined.

Oh, uh, if the world worked the way your DV person thinks it does, then any of us who were tempted to break NC were missing an opportunity for forgiveness, bonding, happily ever after, because THIS time the pathological will GET IT, uh, right?

I’m glad we’re here to reinforce our shared sanity. No, they don’t get it.

No they don’t – and its maddening. You are torn apart, devastated, and trying to get support from someone who is supposed to support you (therapist, sister, close friend), and this person looks at you like you’re crazy. They just don’t believe what you are saying, or, at the very least, you are exaggerating terribly. I’ve had people actually look at me with what looked like something akin to pity/disdain/annoyance when I’ve explained what happened. I could tell they were thinking “Yeah, right, It’s never that one-sided,” and “it takes two to tango.” I could tell they were thinking that sometimes because they said it aloud.

Is they only way to believe is to go through it? Because it really is unthinkable. And, just like so many of us had red-flag denial in the early parts of our relationship “he couldn’t POSSIBLY be doing THAT,” I think there is a whole cultural tendency toward this type of denial NO ONE wants to believe. Not therapists, neighbors, sisters, judges, police officers. It’s just too ugly and the implications are too frightening.

Aloha,

Your post above almost made me laugh—laugh the way I would have on the way to the gallows! UGH!!!! (GRRRR–THAT’S THE SOUND OF MY TEETH GRINDING!)

Afte rmy X-DIL was released from jail she was put in a DV shelter—Remember,, she and her BF had tried to KILL her husband my son C—and at the divorce hearing, she and her “counselor” who was LOOKING DAGGERS AT ME & MY SON–showed up. I only knew the woman was from the DV shelter because a friend of mine who works at the court house clued me in who she was. Later, in some fragmented conversations with my son D when he delivered a few personal items to her from son C she began to expound on how my son C was the ABUSER, and her rationiale was that because my son had guns in the house he was violent, and the fact that SHE had bought guns to shoot him with her BF was her REACTION to C’s abuse (having guns in the house) cause she was “afraid of guns” (she was in the airforce and had received training in guns and shooting) EVERYTHING was twisted around. She tried to kill C, she goes to jail, she is convicted and HE IS THE ABUSER. UHG!!!!!

When she went to the DV shelter, she had not “felt like” a “victim” but they convinced her she WAS ONE, even though SHE was the one who had tried to hit my son (he left the house) she was the controlling one etc.

Funny thing though, she is now with a man she met on the internet, they met through an S&M sex site called collarme.com and they are apparently “happily collared” LOL Sheesh! Apparently she wants a man who will abuse her (which goes along with the past history I have of her though it is somewhat sketchy). I know nothing about her early life, but I do know enough to know that her favorite “chairs” in the triangle (Victim, Persecutor, Rescuer) are victim and persecutor, which she played hard ball in these “games.” Her “rescuer” chair with her “rescuing” my mother from me was simply a manipulation for money and gain.

A bit of a subject change:

Someone (CRS) posted a quuote from Sam Vankin yesterday that I printed off about the Toxic Ns “giving” to others with ATTACHED STRINGS and using those “gifts” (which are really down payments on control and adoration) for CONTROL. I prited it off and gave it to my son C today and asked him if he saw “anything” or “anyone” in that quote.

He read it, his eyes opened wide and he said “How do you tell the genuine gift giver from the toxic N?” You can’t always from just the “giving” but you have to look at the other aspects of their behavior as well to put two and two together.

I “flashed” on this concept 30+ years ago (but didn’t know what it was, ust the idea) with my P X-FIL who used to “do all kinds of nice things” for my husband and me, but then when we did something (anything) that was not what he wanted us to do, or how we were to live our lives, he was FURIOUS and pointed out “after ALL I have done for you!” I realized at that point that these “gifts” were LURES, and HOOKS. I also realized that my X-BF-P gave a lot of “gifts” to his GFs, and my mother did—-back to CONTROL.

I also thought about a “precept” in my cultural and social training about NEVER BE BEHOLDEN TO ANYONE.

It is acceptable, even good, to be a giver. To DO favors for anyone. It is NOT acceptable to TAKE FAVORS from anyone except a VERY close friend or a relative. Because if they ASK a favor in return, you are compelled to return the favor whether you want to or not. Actually, in the older generation, you can know who thinks of themselves as your CLOSE friend when they will ASK for a favor. So I think, in a way, the CONCEPT of this “being beholden” to someone you might not completely trust, by receiving a gift or favor, is something that has been around in our culture for a LONG time.

The reciprosity concept in our society (and even in chimpanzee colonies) must be very old indeed. And, the caution in accepting gifts as well. The old saying “Beware of Greeks bearing gifts” may be changed to “beware of Ns or Ps bearing gifts.”

Trojan Horse

Lets Burn It!:)~

aloha, your guy definitely is as you say, a BAD MAN.

You wrote “And how separate is emotional/financial/psychological abuse from physical abuse?” Well in terms of the law, quite different. In terms of impact on your life….

Well, I was raped by a stranger when I was a young girl. I was attacked by a stranger at a hotel, in the bathroom. I got caught in a bombing and was covered in bricks. I had a loaded gun held to my head while pinned to a car hood by an angry mob. I was brutally date raped once, once not so brutally. I was in a scary car chase to get away from another threatening rapist.

But I will tell you this. NONE of those events compared to the emotional devastation and lasting pain from “only” the emotional cruelty of a P lover!!! He did mildly sexually assault me once, but the damage was the mind games. of thinking someone truly loved me when he was just exploiting me for sex and entertainment and ego boosts and the thrill of the chase, the “high” of conquest, the delight of the sudden and unexpected dump, the emotional betrayal at the deepest level.

I would rather re-live ALL my other horrible experience again, rather than relive the P.

justabouthealed: I’m sorry to hear of all the horrible experiences you’ve endured.

Peace to your heart and soul!

The psychiatrist I saw one time, right after the P (and a second time to tell him everything he said was right), said I had enough trauma in my background (not a complete list above) to put anyone on pills for life, and that I should be so proud of all I’ve overcome and the fact that I’m not on any meds and have worked hard to overcome PTSD, but to realize that to subject myself to more trauma on purpose was dangerous to me, and to put myself in positions were I might get abandoned was dangerous to me.(I did finally end my one job that was exposing me to more trauma and dangerous situations.) And that if the P loved me at all, he would leave me alone, knowing all this, as the P is a MD. So I told the P that and begged him to leave me alone,(I should have done NC myself but was so confused) and of course he did NOT leave me alone and in fact intensified his love bombing and then did the worse dump ever after that. And he enjoyed every minute of it, especially me sobbing into the phone.

It seems that it takes me about 6 months to put into practice the good advice I get. The psychiatrist gave me great advice, and so did the two therapists I saw about the whole mess (thought it took one a bit to catch on to the guy), plus a super one on the phone. Four mental health professionals telling me this guy is one very sick puppy. Each time it took me about six months for their advice to sink in , at whatever stage I was in the healing process.

I don’t mean to sound like poor me. There are people subject to much worse violence all the time, like in war zones, and some dangerous parts of the world and even cities here, the Katrina mess, on and on. I’ve been in the wrong place at the wrong time innocently quite a few times, but three times were outside the US. I don’t mean to sound mysterious but I don’t want casual acquaintances that I refer to this site to recognize me by more details about my work, etc. I prefer to keep my foolish mistakes with the P to myself!

Ps I already referred the phone therapist, because she was actually the best…..to return this thread to the proper topic! She needed to hear me talk for about 5 minutes and she totally got it, because she works with the author of “How to Spot a Dangerous Man”….and just like we are all seeing patterns here, she has seen all the patterns before, could pinpoint where I was on the journey to healing and what to do next….without needing to hear all about my past, etc. or even details of the relationship. Some of the powerful things she said to me were “In your mind, give the shame back to him, where it belongs” “Now tell yourself the WHOLE truth”..”You are in your integrity now” “Kick him out…no more free rent in your head ‘ (still working on that one, LOL), “You have great integrity and love, this is why this hurts so much” “commit fully to the future, let go of the past….like a trapeze artist, you will fall if you don’t let go of the old bar” (still working on that one too), “now that you know what he is capable of, NC” “He has changed the channel, it was that simple for him. You are gone.” “What did he represent to you? ….Okay, now go get that in a healthy way, make it happen!”

Wow, JustAboutHealed, You have really been through it in so many traumatic ways. BTW, you don’t “sound like poor me” at all in your posts. I’m glad you are posting here and working towards recovery. I just wanted to thank you for sharing your experiences with us and wish you well.– Jen

My childs hope…I don’t know where you are in the great white north, but there must be some way for us to contact each other without giving out details here.
If we actually end up in the same neck of the woods, I don’t mind being there in any way I can.
You know, defense lawyers are probably the ones who have the most experience with P/S/N personalities – just a thought.
cheers
PB

Justabouthealed,

You are a true survivor. I wish 2009 to be the year you are a THRIVER… not to say that you aren’t now!

It is hard to say why these disordered folks strike us so deep in our souls but they just do.

Happy New Year!

Aloha

Justabouthealed,
I too wish I had listened to the good advice I got early on. The inconsistencies started within 3-4 weeks. I should have walked then. But I too mistook his obsession with me as love. Even when he followed me around at an event where I ran into him after the discard, I thought his obsession was a sign that he still loved me. Thank God a counselor set me straight on that. It was a real turning point. She said it was a power play and NOT a sign of his caring. I see it all very clearly now, but at the time, I was very confused. I was looking for any reason to believe he still cared. I was grasping at straws. Had I not listened, I’d probably still be going around and around with Mr. P. That’s why this site is so helpful. Once you have the right information, you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that letting your guard down around a P is the equivalent of letting yourself get knifed in the heart. Every time. Would you willing go walk into oncoming traffic? Thankfully, I got out after 2-1/2 months. It was 2-1/2 months too long.

I am so glad I found this sight to helpl me. I dated my bf for 9 months too long. I saw red flags early on but I wanted to accept him for his issues. I wanted to help him through them. He is a cop so I thought maybe it’s the stress of his job daily but the more and more I got into the relationship the more I was blind. I ended up moving in to his house basically and abandoning my own. I paid for everythign at his house because I felt it was my obligation since I stayed there and let my house dwindle. I was so convinced he loved me and I am one that needs affection and he sure did give it to me. I cant explain in details cuz it would take me forever but Im glad I foundt his site because its been a month now since our break up and he still has a hold on me… I cant get over the pain Im hurting and that the love you had for me wasnt even true….. or was it? Im stuck ….

Hey Angie Sue – I read your post on the other link to and I FEEL FOR YOU. You are telling my story, exatly. Only mine wasn’t a cop. But he cheated on me all the time when he was ostensibly at work. I couldn’t believe he was cheating – in fact I didn’t, because I thought he was madly in love with me. I thought no one ever loved me so well and I never loved anyone so much. I thought it was perfect love. I still have a hard time accepting (and we broke up 9 mos ago) that he actually cheated on me so much. My head knows its so – but my heart, which is not as smart, just can’t believe it. My gut, which is the smartest of them all, knew it all along. And the hunches got stronger, and ultimately (after considerable denial) I had to see it. Breaking up with him was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. Staying away from him has been harder. Even though he hurt me and betrayed me horribly, I had such a strong bond with him (we all do). Mine begged begged begged me to come back. Finally, I became strong enough to stay away for good. It’s so hard, but it’s the only way to go. I’m so sorry Angiesue….it’s utterly soul-crushing, isn’t ‘it? I know you are in immense amounts of pain……stay with us

As SG suggested, don’t mistake obsession for love. I did, for WAY too long. It’s not love. It’s so sad, because it looks like love, and we hope its love. But it’s not. We are a possession they lost, and not by their choosing and they are arranged about that. We are also a “supply” for them. They are like vampires….and when we go, they suddenly see how plump and healthy we are, and are immediately desperate to get their fangs back into us.

It’s so sad – we want so much for it to be love, but it isn’t. Love isn’t pining for you when you are gone, love is treating you with kindness, compassion, and respect, when you are there.

Also – with these guys, words mean nothing. Absolutely nothing. ALWAYS look to their actions. And that doesn’t mean calling you frequently since you have left – it means how he treated you when you were there.

angered about that……annoying typo, sorry

Dear Angiesue,

STay here and read and read and read, all the old articles in the archives and I think it will answer most of the questions you have. I know there is a lot to take in in learning about these “creatures” because they CAN’T love you, they USE you, and once you get that down intellectually, you have to do like healing heart said and get it through to your heart.

It is a painful process, because you have been BETRAYED and HURT, AND INJURED, and emotionally “raped”—and you are in PAIN. Probably worse pain than you have ever experienced emotionally. They convince us they are our savior, our true love, then they pound us into powder, and kick the dust!

Knowledge=power. You can take back your power, you MUST take back your power. NO contact with him. No phone calls, no texts, no emails, NOTINNNNNG. I know it will be hard because you are hurt and you want comforting and you want HIM to comfort you. It is like a small child who is abused by their parent, and the DHS takes them away from the abusive mom/dad and they cry and cry for mommie to comfort them. It is EXACTLY like that. But eventually, you, like the child will start to heal. EVery time you have “contact” though, you will come up with another “emotional broken bone” and have to start healing again from SQUARE ONE.

I didn’t believe I could do no contact, but I did. It was the thing that let me see that I needed to stay no contact from these emotional vampires….it was the only way to survive, and then to heal. ((((hugs))))) My prayers for you, and God bless.

My childs hope: Please review Liane Leedom’s “out in the cold” blog, along with the comments. There’s a lot there about parenting, and sociopathic parents. You may find some insights that can help you explain aspects of S/P behavior to others who can help you.

I understand, as do so many others who “live” in this online community.

Hi, first time posting after a month of scouring. Thank you to all of you for your help. This site, which I link on my blog, has kept me from contact for a month now and I have been very fortunate to have a therapist who nailed the situation immediately. However it was through links HERE that I realized that my odd and seemingly unrelated physical and mental issues were a result of the trauma from being attached to a sociopath.

I’m very lucky to have both you and a great therapist. At the end of the day, I still feel worthless and unwanted and I cry in my room, but it’s a process, right? Thank you for reading.

Hi Margot!

Welcome!!!! Yes, its a process. I’m in the middle of it, and its tough, but I believe what everyone on this site tells me about getting better…and I am MUCH better than I was 10 mos agao when I first let him. The first 6 months were brutal. BRUTAL. It wasn’t until no contact 4 mos ago that I really started to heal. Try to maintain NC!

What is your story?

Hi, Margot! I too wish you welcome and glad that you have been here reading and learning and that you have a therapist who DOES get it. It IS a process and sometimes it seems a never-ending one, but as you go along it will get easier and you will start to see the light at the end of the long tunnel. (((hugs))) God bless and again, welcome.

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