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Man who stuffs son in oven gets lenient sentence

James Moss of  Staten Island brutally beat his 11-year-old son, burned his hands and stuffed him in an oven. But the boy pleaded for his father, and the judge sentenced Moss to only four months of weekend jail.

This judge needs to learn about sociopaths and trauma bonds.

Read James Moss sentenced to weekends in prison for putting son in oven on HuffingtonPost.com.

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.


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60 Comments on "Man who stuffs son in oven gets lenient sentence"

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This is absolutely SICK!! How in the world could a judge do this?
He should be locked up and the key thrown away. That poor abused child!! That’s another thing the judge should have ordered: counselling for that poor boy, to help him to get over the monstrosity that is his father.
That disgusting man should not EVER be allowed near his son again. I pray for the child’s healing. h2h

The family members see two sides of the man, the good side and the bad side, taking him as he is. They can forgive the unforgivable (telling themselves that he really didn’t mean to do what he did). What the man did is horrible. When a parent treats a child this way, his parental rights should be taken away. The poor kid was in an awkward position, defending a parent who doesn’t know how to parent, who should be locked away. The adults in the scenario should have protected the child from the monster dad, permanently.

H2H, I totally agree on this one….that child is TRAUMA BONDED to his sperm donor who is an EVIL person. The judge is an IDIOT and should be HUNG BESIDE THE CHILD ABUSER.

What the courts are saying to us OVER AND OVER is that our children are our property. We may treat them any way we want, because they belong to us.

No doubt that if this man would have done this to a complete stranger,he would have received years in jail as punishment. But, his own child/property, it is his right to treat him any way he pleases.

Just imagine if Casey Anthony had been suspected in killing, let’s say her boyfriend, hiding his body in her trunk then disposing of it. I wonder if the outcome would have been different. But our legal system seems to say, if it’s yours go ahead.

It is like a cast (sp) system, with innocent children at the bottom.

Dear Milo,

You are so right! Glad to see you posting here. I miss you when you are gone. Hope Grandson is doing well and that the P-offspring is not giving you grief.

It’s just a miserably hot HOT summer here, but the ONLY thing I have to grouse about is the WEATHER and I’ve sure been doing a lot of that! LOL (((hugs))))

Hi Oxy ~

I almost feel guilty telling this, but I have just spent 7 wonderful weeks in the mountains with temps in the 60’s and 70’s. Snow was still on the ground. I was almost complaining about being cold until I checked back home and heard about the heat and worse yet, humidity. I did not want to come home. No TV or internet saved me from the Casey Anthony trial and verdict. I really should live there. Maybe someday.

Grand is trying to show his 10 year old, know it all, argumentative crap. Not fun. His paternal grandmother joined us in the mountains for a week. The more she tells me about Grand’s father the more I worry about the genetic septic system stirring around in him. One day at a time Milo.

P-daughter, after not seeing Grand for over 2 months, promised him she would see him this weekend. Called yesterday to say she was taking her 2 year old on a camping trip with “narcotics annoymous”. Now let’s remember according to her she has never had a drug problem. Now she tells me she is in outpatient rehab and cannot lie, so she must tell me.

I think some moss must have grown on the gray rock while I was gone because I slipped and made a comment. She dropped the “F” bomb. I realized I was being set up for an all out battle. I hit myself over the head with said rock and told her to have a great time and hung up.

Anyways – some things never change.

Take care ~

MIJLO!!!! Hit myself over the head with said rock>..!!!! LOL ROTFLMAO Good for you. Actually I have a large flat spot, just like Henry’s from being hit on the head with the SKILLET! BOINK!!!!

I envy you your wonderful trip to the mountains! Gosh that would be heaven on earth! I may try to figure out some friends up north to go visit next summer–this RECORD SETTING HEAT, TWO YEARS IN A ROW is more than I can take. It has been hotter here this year than it was in the Imperial Valley of California in the desert where the temps are usually below 110 at least, and the humidity out there is LOW. Last night at 11 p..m. I opened the door to let the dog in and though it was ONLY 90 the humidity was already in the high 80s and it was like sticking my head in an oven door. But at least that is the worst thing I have to gripe about! So you know, that makes life pretty good.

Sorry about the problems with grandson, I have plenty of memories of those old “not so good old times” trying to work with an ADHD kid who actually wasn’t all that bad, when you compare him to his P-brother. Genetics are hard to over come, but if any one can do it you can….at least you know what you are working with. God bless and comfort you!

I was was flipping through the New York Post (if you really want to know what’s going on in New York you read the post, and for everything else, the New York Times) when I came across this story and saw it was posted here. It was the statements in the victim’s letter to the judge that jumped out at me.

“Dear judge,

I will fight so hard for my dad to live with me. He made a big mistake but really somewhere in his heart, he’s funny, lovable, caring, and the greatest father in the whole entire world. Everybody in my family like uncles, aunts, cousins, my mom, my sister, grandma, his mom, and me is giving him a second chance. Will you?

God will solve everything if you can make the right choice. And I forgive my dad a lot.

From Chris Moss
God will forgive everything”

I was thinking back to my first posting on this site. I remember stating that the reason I tolerated his abuse, let myself get taken advantage of financially, tolerated his cheating, etc was “to win back that wonderful man I fell in love with.” Another poster said to me that answering the “why” was really important for me to understand my relationship with the S-ex. Clearly this kid refuses to ask the question of “why did my father abuser me like this?” If I had to lay money on it, I’d suspect that this kid has massive abandonment issues. But, it’s clear that this kid’s identity is completely wrapped up in with the father’s. A show of hands class for everyone who has done this with respect to their S-ex?

The argument about “somewhere in his heart is…[an idealized father]. How many times did I just KNOW, in spite of obvious evidence to the contrary that there was a wonderful person inside that monster? How many times did I defend the S-ex to my friends and family who just couldn’t see what I saw? How many times did all of you defent your S-exs class? Another show of hands class (yes, OxDrover and Hens, I see you waving your hands back there).

And everybody forgiving him. How many times did I forgive my S-ex? And how many times did you each forgive your S-exs, class? A show of hands, please?

Although the article doesn’t say so, I have no doubt the father is a professional victim.

I wish this kid were older so he could sit down and analyze the “why” in this sick relationship with an abusive father. But, he is in too deep. What gives me a glimmer of hope in this case, oddly enough, is that it is the MOTHER who seems to be wising up to what the father of this kid is. I found it really interesting that she told the judge that but for Chris, she wouldn’t be standing before the judge. I leave it for God to handle the forgiveness part of this mess. I leave it to the kid’s mother to find some way to make this kid see what a monster his father is before he kills her kid.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/oven_kid_begs_for_his_dad_YSJy9ZvRQU9uZ1qSXbyKwJ#ixzz1UHgI8OyV

Matt, I’ve asked myself that a million times—yep that was me and Hens waving our hands! This kid in the article has been programmed to accept this kind of treatment, he is TRAUMA BONDED….just like many of us here were taught at Mummy’s and Daddy’s knees that we had to “forgive” no matter what someone did to us and that meant “giving them another chance” or “pretending it didn’t happen.” That fantasy that there is GOOD in everyone and that our blood relatives LOVE US in spite of how they treat us.

We wanted so badly to be loved by these disordered people that we would put up with ANYthing, that is **ANY**thing. I’m not sure if you had other relationships with other sociopaths before this guy that landed you here on LF or not, but I have had SEVERAL relation-shits (thanks for that word, Henry!)with various forms of them, from my P sperm donor to a boy friend or two, as well a business partner or two, a daughter-in-law, my P-son, and a few I have worked with or for. Of course some of the relation-shits were more emotionally painful than others, the ones within the family were the most emotionally painful, but the business ones were financially painful, and the ones with my job were always anxiety producing at the least. I’ve seen entire companies destroyed by psychopaths.

Actually I am the one who sent the link for this story to Donna, but I actually couldn’t make myself read it in its entirety, it was too triggering. There are times I can’t put my empathy on “mute” and I get really enraged….I actually could be dangerous to this judge AND the father of this boy. Is there NO justice for judges like this besides waiting for God to send them to HELL?

OxDrover:

By the time I met the S-ex, I had been down a long and winding trail with members of the S/N/B group, starting with a malignant N mother (who the more I think of it is probably an S) and a definite S father. My father tried to drown me. My mother came close to killing me. But, as bad as the beatings were, it was the emotional abuse that was most destructive. From there followed a parade of bosses, so called friends, and relationshits (love that word). Oh, yes. How that early conditioning in life paid off in spades later, didn’t it? And they all played the same card in slightly different guises – “Forgiveness.” “For the good of the organization.” “Because we’re friends/family.” I am grateful I finally woke up and learned to protect myself. The question for me is if this kid’s mother can help her kid wake up before it is too late.

Dear Matt, yep it sure does. Distancing myself from my egg donor who is a “toxic enabler”—she actually isn’t a psychopath, but I’m not sure what “diagnosis” actually fits her, so I made up my own. LOL My P sperm donor was a definite psychopath, no doubt about that at all. My P son is so much like my sperm donor it is not even funny, it is like he is a CLONE.

While I realize that early “conditioning” had a great deal to do with what I tolerated, I also wonder if there is not some genetic input in how we “victims” are formed, just as there is in the formation of the psychopaths. The research that is going on now with the brain scans and chemical studies is very very interesting to me.

If you haven’t read the review I did on the “SCIENCE OF EVIL” by Simon Baron-Cohen, please do, I think you would find this book very very interesting, Matt. It answered a great many questions for me about the formation of empathy or the lack of it and he shows that there are specific genes coded for the chemicals that are necessary in empathy. Without sufficient empathy we can be cruel, too much (plus a little programming) and we become the perfect foil for the empathy-deprived by continually “forgiving” them.

…What is this judge smoking?

Dancingnancies, I think he must have been drunk or high, but that would not surprise me, actually, if that were true.

I really think you will enjoy the books I’ve been reading lately, both the Psychopathic Test and the Science of Evil. They both explain a LOT that is helpful to me….both about the psychopaths and about MYSELF. My quest started about learning about THEM but has become learning about myself. I can only learn about them, but I can learn about and CHANGE myself.

Nancies,
I’d be a hypocrite if I didn’t tell you, that years ago, when my trojan horse BIL and my spath sister tried to have my spath brother sent to prison for the longest possible sentence because he got busted buying crack, I stepped in and wrote a heartfelt letter to the judge asking for compassion for my poor dear brother, who has “mental problems”.

You see back then I didn’t KNOW what a spath was. I didn’t know I was surrounded by them. I didnt’ know there was a trojan horse in the family. And I didn’t know that MY spath was manipulating everything in the background.

WHO THE HELL WOULD IMAGINE THAT? It’s beyond imagining, IF you don’t know how spaths think, what they do and how utterly TYPICAL these manipulations are.

But I digress. The judge just LOVED my letter and stated to the entire courtroom what a wonderful family my lucky brother had. He said that if more defendants had this type of family, we would have many more success stories coming out of the criminal justice system. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
oh yes and my spath brother got probation with some counseling for drug addicts.

As it turns out, his presence in my parents’ home has kept the other spath sibling and the trojan horse, from encroaching on the parents even more than they do already. So, God works in mysterious ways and I do trust in His wisdom.

But the point here is that there are two types of public servants: those that go into it because they naively believe that they can make a difference and want to help those less fortunate, AND those spaths that just love the drama and power that they get to wield when they wear the mantle of authority that their office bestows on them.

Unfortunately, both kinds are likely to let the spaths out with a free pass, although for very different reasons.

Until the public in general is educated, as thoroughly as we have been, nothing is going to work correctly because the spaths deceive and manipulate behind the scenes and nobody can imagine the extent of it.

So, in answer to your question, no he wasn’t high. Probably just manipulated, like I was.

i can not read this article.

Hens ~ Don’t blame you a bit. It pissed me right off!!

On another note: How the heck are ya tonite? 🙂

Hiya H2H — I am good, got a smidgen of rain this morning and a cold front blew in, only got up to 94 ~! And how are you this evening?

TRAUMA BONDED?
maybe I don’t understand trauma bonded. I have the book.

I apply my experience to this kid. Once upon a time I told our neighbor what my mom was like. Next thing the world caved in and it was ALL MY FAULT. They were going to take my mom away, all sibs were hysterical, my mom was crying who could have done this to her, my dad was gone on a construction job so we were alone. We were going to be taken to some unknown place. I didn’t want to lose my mom. I just wanted someone to stop what she did to us.

As an adult, I used to get terror struck anytime something good happened, that the sky was gonna fall, that DOOM was soon to happen. Took me years to realize it was that same feeling, from when it was MY FAULT they almost took ma away. I did lie, said I lied. Said I did it b/c I was a spoiled little brat. I got an enormous beating for it. I don’t think my mother ever forgave me. But I had already been shunned so that wasn’t new at all. I had to sleep with the dogs for a long time after that but that was okay b/c I loved the dogs.

I don’t think I was trauma BONDED, I just couldn’t handle being responsible for the outcome of her being an abuser. I ALWAYS took the responsibility b/c the abuse ended faster if I did.

Same as little boy, I imagine. I don’t think he loves his dad. He just can’t stand feeling responsible for this horrid event, I think the kid is blamed for what his dad did to him. That’s a huge burden.

(notice he listed himself last? as an after thought b/c kids who really miss their parents list themselves FIRST, natural narcissism of a child.)

Hens
Are you rubbing it in that the rest of us have months to go b/f we can expect the relief in rain you just got??? :~)))

Katy, that IS WHAT TRAUMA BONDING IS…..you described it. It wasn’t your mom’s fault for beating you, it was your fault for making her beat you by being a bad kid. The victim is always “at fault.” The husband beats the wife and says “I wouldn’t have had to do this if you’d had supper on the table when I got home.”

It was MY PLACE and YOUR place to “keep the family secrets” and make sure that everyone “thought we are a nice normal family” and if YOU exposed what was REALLY going on and “broke up the family” then it was YOUR fault. TRAUMA BONDING.

Sky = A smidgen is 6 rain drops per square yard, wernt nuthin to brag about and will be back up in the 3 digits tues…I wish i could brag about some rain….how r u sky?

Hens ~ we actually had just a smidge of rain yesterday. Glad you’ve cooled off a bit. I checked the temp at 10 PM and it was actually down to about 72. Hallelujah! It’s been miserably hot here too.

KatyD ~ Sending rainy cool wishes your way. 🙂

Hope to Heal,
not just my way, the whole of Texas needs a drop or two. Send some extra healing and may your blessings will return to you twicefold.

Thanks Oxy.
So all these years of my hyper responsiblity was just a symptom of trauma bonding? I did let it go when at age 20 I started working at a hospital (GREAT healing for me.). But I had to CONSCIOUSLY talk myself out of it for years b/f it became a part of my subconscious.

And with my husband, esp the last two years living with him, it came back, that terrible feeling of doom. And again, had to CONSCIOUSLY talke myself out of thinking doom would fall if I ever had a good day, or even a good moment.

I keep praying that this terribly HOT and DRY spell will end. It seems so unfair that some parts of the country are flooding right now, when others are parched.
Where I live now has had VERY little rain over the last couple of months. Although we are not as dry as some other parts of the country. I wish blessings of cooler temps and rain to all who need it. 🙂

Katy, the feelings you described about your mother and telling about how she treated you is typical I think of trauma bonding, the abused child defending the parent and the status quo, the family secrets.

About the feeling of “doom” if you had a good day? I’m not sure about that being part of the trauma bonding per se, but it might be. If you have Patrick Carnes’ book, read it “The Betrayal Bond” and I think it might help you. I read it and can definitely relate.

Just like these kids and women that are “spiritually married” to that Jeff’s guy–the pervert—they are BONDED to him and don’t even know it. They would defend him with their lives because his abuse of them has convinced them he loved them and they want to please him. It’s a combination of abusing them, then “saving” them from the abuse by stopping it for a while, then abusing again.

The hyper responsibility, that the entire family depends on YOU is something I can relate to as well. Can’t let the family down.

My P son in prison kept sending me DEMANDS to do this and to do that, go to town and make a copy of a 200 page book and send it to him, and do that, and something else….I was “dying” and begged him to be patient and I’d get to his demands….and he told me I was just being mean to him, that he was helpless and I just didn’t care if he suffered….I even told him I was like a jack ass with a 1,000 pound load on its back, I couldn’t get up and h e said “you aren’t trying” and “dad’s been dead long enough now, get back to life” (i.e. doing what I want you to)

I felt responsible for him, and what he wanted, responsible for the egg donor’s demands, and I didn’t have the energy to lift my finger to scratch my nose….when I tried to get the demands to stop, that was when the egg donor devalued and discarded me for the psychopaths….which ultimately was a good thing, I guess it saved my life, but sure did lead to the “summer of chaos” I’ve had 3 years of relative calm and peace now with the last 18 months being pretty good, and I only expect it to get BETTER.

I’m also NOT waiting for the other shoe to drop either….well, not at least like I was.

Oxy
Sorry but I still don’t understand. I don’t feel bonded at all. In fact, I feel NO feelings towards my birth family, no warm fuzzies, no love, no curiousity, nothing. Whe I think of them, it’s like another person hated them for who they were back then and I know that persons thoughts and experiences but no longer feel her feelings. I have different feelings. Kinda like all kids who wish they were other peoples little girls.

I had another neighbor family that pretty much adopted me when I was 11. Many times fed me, gave me a graduation present, even came to watch me graduate and celebrated all my big events. I sent that woman flowers for mothers day and cards/presents at Christmas. I bonded to THEM.

Katy, at the time you were a kid you were trauma bonded to the family, but fortunately you broke away. Henry has told about how his mother was HORRIBLE to him, but he was like a dog crawling at her feet trying to appease her—-but eventually he broke the trauma bond (after she tried to kill him). Trauma bonds can be broken, and sometimes those of us who have trauma bonded early on in our lives even if we break away will find another abuser to take the place of mommy dearest.

Read the book if you haven’t. Or google stockholm syndrome or trauma bond and see if that doesn’t describe what you were feeling THEN as a kid.

KatyDid,

The feeling of doom on a good day? I’ve always attributed that to feeling like I didn’t deserve to have a good day. I would be punished for having a good day. Does that make sense?

Yes Sarah, Totally makes sense to me.

That if something good happened, the universe would correct itself by punishing me.

Oxy
That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me. I wasn’t bonded to them as a kid either. I was separate. I had found God in a church and it was my religion that made me feel responsible for them, not any attachment.

I have read the book and it’s sitting right here beside me. That’s why the book didn’t resonate with me b/c I didn’t see my feelings in any of it.

I felt NO attachment to them. When I was 9, my dad had a terrible car accident and I remember crying b/c I didn’t have any feelings, I didn’t care and I thought that meant I was going to hell. In fact I worried about not being about to attach but since I did to my friend, my aunt, my cousin, her mom, their dad, my neighbor, all my patients, my child, my husband, my friends etc etc…. I don’t think I have an attachment disorder.

OMG! I feel traumatic just reading that. That poor baby! How sick that man is! What in the hell is wrong with people, and why do we have to have such sickos on this planet with the rest of us? If I had done that same thing to that man, I would be going to prison, but he does it to his kid and that is all he gets. WTF! I think people who abuse kids should be put to sleep permanently!
Sorry for crazy ranting, but that really upset me. I just want to grab that lil boy and hug him tight. My empth does not turn off with kids, and my preg hormones have me crying right now. Normally, I can hide it better with my kids in the room with me.

KatyD ~

I don’t know if this will help or not, but I remember years ago taking a class on parenting the abused child. I was a foster parent at the time. The psychologist conducting the class tried to explain that when children have been abused since they were very young and the abuse was ongoing, that became their norm, the one consistent thing in their lives. The abuse was their security. Having their security removed, or threatened to be removed is more than they can handle. The unknown becomes more terrorizing to them than the “security”.

I recently read a fictional book titled “Room”. Without going into detail, it was about a 5 year old who had spent his entire life locked inside a 12×12 shed with his Mom. That is all he knew. When he was released, he wanted to go back to that security. Interesting book.

Katy, your last sentence, if you have healthy relationships with all those people, you don’t need to give a second thought to any kind of an attachment disorder.

Take care ~

Well, Katy, in that case I’m not sure what’s going on….or why you don’t identify with the book, as you were obviously physically and emotionally abused by your parents. Not everyone is alike, we are all different in many ways, it is just something that only YOU can work out. None of us can get inside each other’s heads, we can only guess and make suggestions.

Even with therapy sometimes it takes us a long time to come to our own conclusions, our “ah ha” moments–even a good therapist can only point us in a direction, we have to go there ourselves. I wish you peace and resolution of your own questions about yourself. Our journeys start out about finding out about THEM and end finding out about ourselves.

Milo, we both posted over each other to Katy, and I think the way you explained it makes sense…what we grew up with, good or bad is “normal” in our eyes unless we learn different from something outside the home.

I was reading a story in a newspaper yesterday where an Iraqi man who had lived here in teh US since 1990 ran over his daughter with a car in an attempt to kill her because she was “too Americanized” and wanted to pick her own husband and not have an arranged marriage as her father wanted. Her to do. He was sentenced to a long prison sentence.

Was he a psychopath? Or was he just a man who truly believed because of his culture that he was doing right by killing his daughter for “honor?” He did run, and got as far as England before he was captured and brought back to the US for trial, so he knew it was against the LAW of the land for him to kill her, but he did it anyway. He obviously accepted that his culture of arranged marriages and absolute control by the male head of house hold was “normal” and desirable, yet, because of exposure to another culture outside her house, she did not accept the culture of control in her family of origin and rebelled against it.

Each of us grew up in some form of culture inside our homes, either kind, loving and caring, or controlling and abusive, but whatever it was, we accepted it at least at an early age as “the way things are” until at some point we internalized some or all of the things as “normal” and the “way things SHOULD be.” If we, like the young woman who died rebelled against the way things were in our family of origin, we were probably to some extent PUNISHED for violating the family traditions and culture….whether it was simply Mom being upset because we didn’t come home for Christmas, to disowning us because we marry outside of the family’s preferred religion.

Oxy,
The idea of being entitled to kill your own daughter is part of some cultures, so yes, it has to do with that man’s culture. BUT the inability to feel empathy and the narcissism involved with that entitlement which would enable him to kill her because of a narcissistic injury to his pride, that’s just spath. A non-spath could not harm their own innocent child despite what his culture or legal system allows.

Katy, much of what happens in our brains, goes on under the surface and we aren’t really aware of it because it was programmed before we had very much awareness.
For example: My parents were very controlling. I was not allowed to do very much as a kid and they said it was for my own safety and because my mother worried about me. I hated much about my upbringing, but this “protective” behavior, I did accept as “love”. So I looked for a man who was the opposite in every way from my father. I thought I had found it, but as it turned out, he was also very “protective”.

It wasn’t until I left him and went back to live with my parents that I SAW: They were exactly alike! They were both CONTROLLING, not protective. It was all about them, and never about me. But I could not see that for 43 years. I had to go into a state of disintegration when everything I had believed in was shattered, before I could finally see things clearly. That warped and dirty window that distorted things, was finally broken and many things became glaringly obvious. The truth.

I could say that my spath tricked me and it would be true. But I can’t ignore the fact that I was set up by my bio-fam to be tricked. This much I know from reading about N’s. It is the mechanism of passing on the slime through the generations, it’s not a coincidence, that growing up abused, predisposes us to further abuse or becoming abusers or both.

Sky, I know that some people in cultures that devalue women are still not psychopathic, per se, but their empathy toward women has been culturally “turned off” from the time they were growing up and seeing their mothers and sisters and grandmothers devalued by their male role models. It is only in the last few generations here in the US that women have started to rise out of the status of chattel. In the early years of our country, even after the US was formed, women had few property rights and their husbands had control of anything that they owned separately or inherited….divorce was almost impossible, and wife beating was an accepted practice.

That young Afgan woman who was featured on the cover of Time Magizine, whose father “sold” her to an old man for a wife and when she and her younger sister were beaten, she escaped back to her father who refused to let her in, and her FIL found her and he and his son, her husband, cut off her ears and nose and left her for dead….the CULTURE of women being chattel, not quite human, just a necessary evil to procreate and entertain and serve the males has not changed for centuries in that area on the whole….but it SLOWLY changed in Western culture, but there are still pockets of people (like some religious cults) even in westernized culture who continue to see women as second class citizens.

The book “The Science of Evil” was very interesting to me because it showed how culture and programming can change our levels of empathy, or turn them off where one segment of society is concerned due to prejudice, while retaining empathy in other areas. It isn’t just and issue of a black or white where empathy (or lack of it) is concerned. In fact, the more I learn, the more I see that there are few areas in life that are totally black or white. Strange, when I was a teenager, EVERYTHING was black or white. But then in those days, I KNEW EVERYTHING. LOL

Thanks for the rec Oxy 🙂 I will check out the other book you mentioned as well. I agree that learning about psychopathy does help one learn about oneself.. Especially since so many of us here have such a high degree of empathy ( and it is this which made us so vulnerable to the manipulations of the P in the first place… we filled in the blanks with our empathy. ) – it is INORDINATELY important that we learn all we can about the subject. Firmer boundaries are very much in order- as well as being smarter in our dealings with people. And in learning about it ourselves, we are given the tools to be able to inform others, who like us at one point in time, may be in the dark as to even the very existence of the pathology.

KatyDid

I identify with your posts and with your history.

I used to walk around with a feeling of impending doom too. When i first got married and had a child, I couldn’t ever take a vacation. I was too afraid something bad would happen to me. Seriously. I would absolutely panic.

When I was young, every time I got home from a friend’s house or home from something fun (a trip with the football team, whatever), SHIT would hit the fan for no apparent reason, my mom would beat the shit out of me, she would dump out all my drawers and make me put everything away all over again.

No wonder I learned to live with fear and anxiety.

I learned to “read” her footsteps – a hard pound of her heel, a fast brisk pace meant I was in deep shit and I’d run for the hills.

Mind you, i was a honor role student, cheerleader, I held a job since I was 13, I didn’t do drugs. Ridiculous. I saw a post somewhere that sometimes parents need to be reminded that they are raising a human being whose goal is to be INDEPENDENT. Apparently nobody told my mom that. My only purpose was to serve HER needs.

Anyway it took me a whole experience with my spath to realize all of this trauma I went through with my mom. I confronted her, stopped taking her abuse, and she exited from my life about 8 months ago. I don’t care. I don’t miss her. No warm fuzzies.

However, there are other people in my life I love very much and I know they love me back.

sk

Dear SK,

I’m glad that you were able to recognize the dysfunction of your mother’s behavior toward you as a child. It took me almost 6 decades to recognize that and to come to grips with the fact my “mommy didn’t love me.” Okay, that was a sad break, but we have CHOICES now to continue with those bad relationships or to let them go….it was very difficult for me to let my egg donor go, and to recognize that it wasn’t my “fault” because she didn’t love me, it just is what it IS. But, I also realize I can and I did “divorce” her and get on with my own life. I don’t need anyone toxic in my life no matter what the DNA link is.

Shedding those relation-shits that are counter productive to a healthy life is what will SET US FREE to live a good life, a healthy life, and one filled with love and peace. Good for you, SK! TOWANDA!

I had that impending doom feeling right after I met the spath…I convinced myself it was just me being crazy… sigh.

oh yes skylar – then I had it again when I found out he tried to kill me, THE FIRST TIME….yep: “impending doom”. Yep, that adequately describes it until I empowered myself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Towanddddddddddaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

Hey Dupey, How’d your “scope and grope” go?

Hi all. Hi Oxy! Been readin’ but not much time to comment.

My two cents: Yes, this is horrible. I watched a Dr. Phil the other day (not whole show) because I just couldn’t take watching about a stepmother who adopted twins. She didn’t like the one boy and abused him. the twins are about 5 I think. The video showed her giving this poor child a cold shower for punishment and forcing hot pepper sauce in his mouth. I cried.

I can’t take it. If there was a crime I could fight it would be child abuse. I could easily without empathy, take a few of these abusive horrible soulless people out! Who’s with me?

When I think of the children who are suffering in “good” homes I shiver. Many classify the sociopath based on education or lack of, based on income or lack of, etc. but watch out….of course, if you read on this site, we all know this……just saying……

Getting ready for some fried green tomatoes!! Bring out the iron pan and making some fried chicken…. corn…..the heck with the diet…for now…..

If you bring out the iron pan, make sure you clunk me a good one Oxy, so I remember my lessons……my boundaries as you spoke of in your post…….and how much I love me!!!

My grandson is 5 1/2 and I love him so much my heart melts and encompasses him with a bubble of love…..sigh…..so beautiful….how blessed I am to be a GrandMa….and I try hard to give him a “fun, safe, and free place to be” when he is away from his mother, my daughter, who is depressed, has fibromyalgia, bi-polar, ….(we got into this once or twice) however, she is a very good mother. Although I don’t know what happens behind closed doors, I do know that this child is not being abused……Trust me on that…Don’t need that lecture……and can’t go into a long why at this time….but one day we can as appropriate…..

Dear Vision,

Nah, I’m gonna have to stick to the diet, I’m starting to lose weight again and I need to stay on this trolley! For a while anyway!

Nah, I’m not gonna boink you with the skillet. I know several people who are bi-polar and are still good parents, and lots of people are depressed and/or have fibromyalgia and are still good parents. Your grandson is also fortunate to have a loving grandmother as well. The unconditional love I got from my grandparents rather than the very conditional approval from my egg donor I think is probably what gave me empathy and some measure of self esteem. I’m glad your grandson has you and glad that you have him. (((hugs)))

Hey Ox: Thanks for inquiring about my ‘scope & grope’! 🙂
I am truly amazed I didn’t bleed to death yesterday. Not even a little bruise! Imagine that. I will get results in two weeks. We have put off discussing any further heart surgery for another 3 months. YAY! I soooooo hate hanging out in the cardiac wing! 🙂
The food is great but the nurses suck because they are all specialty cardiology nurses is why. Not into ‘nursing’ as much as ‘surgery’ and all things heart related. Of which I am grateful. I guess.

It has been quiet and I like it very much. NC still in complete effect. 🙂 How you doing, Ox? Hope and pray all is well with you. I am hanging in. More stuff on Thursday and Friday. I have a two day reprieve from the vampires. xxoo

Dupity Doo Duh

Dear Dupey,

We got rain and a 34 degree, THIRTY-FOUR DEGREE drop in the high temp for today from yesterday, makes me want to put on a coat. It went from 108 down to 74 for the high today! Coolest day we’ve had since early MAY….humidity is 98% and it is raining, so not gonna complain at all about anything. Now that I can’t biatch about the weather, I don’t have a thing in the world to gripe about! God is good!

Dear Oxy ~ FINALLY some relief! Hallelujah!!! We’re a bit cooler today too. It was only 72 about an hour ago. Might have to get outside and work in the yard today. Only a slight chance of some sprinkles this afternoon. OMG we’re supposed to get down to 55 tonight!! It will be so nice to open the windows and let in COOL air for a change.

Dupey~Glad to hear that you have a bit of a break before more testing. Enjoy! 🙂

Ox: Wow: such a huge difference. Y’all will be sick if that keeps up! Yah, I have absolute peace and quiet and I am loving it like a tick on a dog! 😉

Enjoy the showers ~ I hardly even know what rain is anymore, out here, in the desert! I hear stories of it though! 😉

xxoo

Dupey

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