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By | December 29, 2007 21 Comments

Married man sleeps with 13 women in a week

Three different Lovefraud readers sent in a link to a story on the Today Show website. In a letter to Dr. Gail Schultz, a psychiatrist and Today Show contributor, a 41-year-old married man claimed that he will hit his all-time record for sleeping around—13 women in a week.

The guy says his wife is intelligent, beautiful, and they have a great sex life. Still, he looks at every woman who walks by and watches porn. He meets women online, sleeps with them on the first date, and then dumps them.

In her reply, Dr. Schultz’s first words are: “I think you are a sex addict and a sociopath.”

Here’s the story: Married man: ‘I slept with 13 women this week.’

Media says the “S” word

The good news is that finally, a media commentator used the word “sociopath.” Dr. Schultz identified the guy’s lack of guilt, remorse and empathy. “It sounds as though you have no capacity for emotion,” she wrote.

Even if the guy was exaggerating—one might doubt the ability of any man to hook up with 13 women in a week—the term certainly applies. I commend Dr. Schultz for using it.

The bad news is Dr. Schultz implies that the guy can be helped. She writes: “If you want to try living a normal life—something beyond a life governed by sexual addiction—you need treatment, either individual treatment or group treatment.”

Good luck with that.

But at least the word “sociopath,” correctly used, has made its way into the mainstream media.


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eyesopened

Donna

I agree. What a triumph that Dr. Schultz didn’t wimp out but instead stood up to this proud sociopath and told him the truth. I wish more therapists were educated and not misled by them.

Is it true, that even with a commitment to change and medicine or therapy, they can’t be helped?

On another post, we’ve been discussing that some of the sociopaths we have known really do seem to consider their choices – I watched the one I knew take an extended time in front of me to think, but then discount, the better choice in favor of one that allowed him to do what he really wanted to do.

Other times, he’d just be impulsive. I think he never considered long-term consequences. I know there were times he wanted to change – he struggled with it and told me.

I always thought he was just making choices – choosing bad ones over good, taking the easier route, the one that was more fun. And because consequences never followed, he never had to learn or change.

For those of us who believe in Christianity, scripture says there’s a point when God gives man (one who has consistently rejected God and good and truth) over to his own debased mind. For us, this could explain why consequences don’t seem to attach themselves to sociopaths. Consequences are teaching tools that keep the rest of us in the game, in line and learning.

Although, they often don’t seem to suffer punishment, either, it could be their punishment is simply living in their own mind where there are no consequences and no hope.

It really would be sad if there were no help for those who wanted it.

wp

Well her advice is ridiculous, because he was quite clear in stating that he’s having a good time of it, and did not express any interest at all in “living a normal life”.

He may have asked for insight about what’s going on – and her assessment of him being a sociopath & sex addict seems to be spot on.

But I think the only reason he’s even questioning it is because it’s “affecting his job”.
I doubt that would be enough of a motivation to suddenly want to “live a normal life”.

Frankly, I think when it comes right down to it, he’s just hoping there’s a way he can finagle things so that he can continue some of this, but doesn’t have to face any consequences.

alohatraveler

To eyesopened,

I think you might be confused about the concept that a sociopath does not have a choice. I believe that they are hard wired in the brain to be Sociopathic. This does not mean that they don’t make choices and that they go around robotically responding to impulses.

They make choices and consider their options all the time. It’s just that they don’t use moral judgements when they make their decisions. They make all their choices based on what will benefit them the most. Sometimes that might involve doing something nice for someone… but check their motives… are they trying to look good in someone’s eyes? A moment of “giving” and “kindness” is about creating an illusion. It has nothing to do with the heart.

There was a great movie the other day on LifeTime Movie Network. It was called, “A Man and three Wives.” Before the movie started I stated to my friends, “This movie is about a Sociopath.” Throughout the movie, I predicted his every move before he made it. The movie was about a Doctor that secretly had three relationships going. He was known in his profession as a life saver and worked with sick children. He would go to heroic efforts to save the children but my take was that he did this because of how it make him LOOK. He didn’t do this because he was a great loving guy.

If you get a chance to see this movie on TV, watch how brilliantly and boldly this man manipulates three women. The only thing that annoyed me about the movie is that they never stated that he was a Sociopath.

Some sociopaths are mean, like mine, and have a profession like “The Minister of Compassion” as their cover. Some screw you with a smile on their face all the while giving you flowers and secretly destroying your life behind your back. I think this is the kind of Sociopath that really hurts people (well, they all do, don’t they?) because when a person realizes in the end what happened to them, it takes a long time to realize that the *nice* part of them was not the *real* person.. it was just manipulation to get what they wanted out of you and to keep you eating out of their hand.

It is hard to let go of the moments that seemed good or like a dream come true but that is what I did. I know now that none of it was real. I can see how he played me. Not one moment was real. He created the biggest high in my life and the hardest CRASH. I see it all now and I don’t long for any of those *good* moments because it was all false.

alohatraveler

To WP,

RIGHT! You got it exactly. Why don’t trained professional get it?

wp

eyesopened: I hope I’m not butting in, but your question is one of the pivotal ones, I think, in regards to sociopaths. And one that I find the most interesting and the most saddening.

“Is it true, that even with a commitment to change and medicine or therapy, they can’t be helped?”

This question is addressed and explained in both the Dr. Hare book, and the Stout book. I recommend those books highly. But even they don’t have a straight forward answer.
And I think it’s because there isn’t one.
Because the sociopathic brain is simply so fundamentally different in one fundamentally important way, that it’s difficult for ‘the rest of us’ to understand the problem with the question itself in regards to sociopaths.

It’s not that they can’t be helped by therapy, if they made a commitment to change. It’s that they simply won’t make the commitment to change. Not that they can’t, it’s that they see no reason to. They just don’t view therapy & change the way the rest of us do, they wouldn’t be motivated toward it for the reasons the rest of us would.

And I think in regards to the ones that make a commitment to change in even small ways, 99 times out of 100, they’re working another angle, and it’s nothing but a ruse to manipulate someone or some situation.

In fairness, I think some probably do make a committment to change certain things, for certain reasons.
For example, some may be motivated to make a commitment to quit a sex addiction, or some other addiction like drinking or using drugs. And they may even have some success in those areas. Perhaps even great success with some simple behavioural problems.

But the bottom line remains that a sociopath is physiologically different in the brain, according to the experts. There is no way that medical science today can activate those neural pathways that allow for conscience and the higher emotions that the rest of us have. So in essence, from the volume I have read on the subject, there is no hope that they will ever be like the rest of us. And that, I think, makes it unlikely they could ever make any profound behavioural change. They certainly can’t ever become a loving cooperative-thinking person.

In fact, I read that Dr. Hare suggests, something like that even if in the future there’s some brain surgery that corrects the non-functioning area of the brain, most sociopaths would never want to have that surgery anyway… because the way their brain works (or fails to work), means they wouldn’t see a reason to correct it.

Kind of a catch 22.

eyesopened

WP: You’re not intruding at all. Thank you so much for such a clear and thoughtful explanation and for sharing the results of your research. Thank you, too, for your gentle answer. I appreciate it.

eyesopened

Thanks, Alohatraveler. If I come across that movie, I’ll be sure to watch it…thanks!

EnnLondon

I wish others would take such a strong stand against this sort of behaviour – especially Google, who I see (I’m not sure if people in the US are getting this too as it appears to be a British site) are advertising a sickening site called illicitencounters.com in the right-hand margin of this page. It makes me sick – I’ve got no problem with people having all the sex they want but to deliberately mislead their partners is just foul. A sociopath’s playground or what?! What are Google doing taking their money? (They’ve obviously picked up on the words we’re using and presumed we’re the ones involved in this sort of activity and ‘served’ up the ad).

On a more upbeat note, I’m quite amused when I look at this site to see my Norton antivirus giving me a banner at the top of my browser that says ‘Fraud Monitoring is on’ – if only I could get one for my brain!

wp

Google has never been one to turn down money. That’s why they’re so big now. They’ve worked with the China government to help the China government prevent their citizens from accessing web sites that are pro-freedom & pro-human rights.
If they’ll take money from an oppressive government, why not take money from a morally questionable web site?

There’s an inexplicable (to me) abundance of questionable web sites like that though. Several that cater to married people seeking secret extra-marital affairs.

With advertisements that say things like “unhappy with your current relationship and looking for some extra excitement? Meet other attached men & women seeking discreet affairs”

This is something that is outside my understanding. The idea of staying with someone if I was unhappy seems dumb to me. Why not just break up and then find someone new?
But apparently there’s enough people who think an affair is the answer to an unhappy marriage that all these web sites can actually make money with their service.

One discreet extramarital affair dating site actually advertises this:
“We are honest, forthright and caring. Three things that we value in our extramarital web-relations.”

If that doesn’t give you a choked laugh while your head spins, I don’t know what will.

EnnLondon

Oh God yeah of course – their argument re China is that it’s more pro-freedom to offer a limited search rather than none at all. (God forbid someone else might do it!)

Those websites didn’t make sense to me until I discovered this whole sociopath ‘thing.’ If I wasn’t 100% sure that I wanted that person more than anyone else then I wouldn’t bother with the relationship – however, I’ve now realised that sociopaths would never be 100% sure about anyone cos it’s about power rather than intimacy. (Like my ex’s earlier victims were like ‘Why wasn’t he just honest?! He could have had a purely physical relationship if he’d wanted – I didn’t particularly want an emotional one’ – but he wasn’t happy til he’d emotionally ‘won’ with them, so he could wreck it).

Ohhh grrrrr!

eyesopened

Have any of you seen the Seduction Lair blog – I’m sure there are others – where bloggers study and share calculated seduction strategies that deceive women in dating situations?

Before, I may have laughed off a site like this, one with an image of the smarmy swinger complete with the open shirt, gold chains and stupid grin.

On the surface, the guys on this blog seem like a group of juvenile losers passing around their little “secrets,” but their ruthless and heartless cunning exacts a toll on themselves, on women, their families and our society. In fact, the sociopath I knew used some of the same tricks.

They’re not a joke to me anymore, though, and they’re certainly not the harmless lounge lizard.

Like the sociopath, they’re damaging and I’m sure their numbers will grow with the help of the internet. In the end, with counter-exposure on the internet, in the press and through word-of-mouth, maybe targets of both will be better prepared.

apt/mgr

As I read about the cad who thinks he’s God’s gift to woman kind, I am dismayed at what might be going on in so many other men’s minds. Some act on their drives and others just do it in their hearts and minds. How does one know if a man is pure? I thought the word intimacy would connect two people, but I found out the hard way that isn’t the case. I don’t know who to credit with the definition, but I read it in my search for answers, but they defined intimacy as “in-to-me-see”. So when they have hidden agendas no one will get there. To be with someone who gives vague answers and hesitates before answering, I have to wonder why he hides the simplest answers. When all they know to do is seduce, it makes for rather boring conversation. They run out of material with the current so they have to try out their skills on a new one, because all they are is fluff and stuff. What an empty existence.

The sad part is we usually have to go through the fire before we find out what we were feeling about them was a certainty. I kept thinking that I’m just too judgmental and I’m just not trying hard enough to see the good. As I read these blogs and other sites, and hear about the one with all the women, I want to drop out of society. I now look at every man as a potential cheater or already is. I look for signs with most everyone, but I don’t get close to any of them. I don’t encourage them. I remain aloof. I will not get taken in again by flattery and calculating words. I don’t need another to build me up. I’m not so full of myself to I believe that I’m a beautiful woman. When they start laying on the charm, I say gag me. What worn out lines.

And if the ones like the man in the article gets an incurable disease, who will he blame or will he wear it as a badge of a life lived. I’m so thankful to have insight and be on the alert. I hope the word can get out there and what better medium than the web, tv, word of mouth, etc. They ought to start in school informing teens what to look for in dating. There are a lot of teens who have controlling issues.

I rent apartments, (obviously) and one of our tenants was shot in the head and killed by her boyfriend, lover, etc., today. He’s 19, she was around 36. Most likely drugs and drinking were involved, but there was fighting too. All the info hasn’t come in yet, but it shows the problems in every area of life. So many are uneducated on matters of the heart. I know I was a complete innocent even up to the age of 55. I couldn’t determine who was the one to blame for the dysfunction. I know my flaws and address them, but when I tried to get the other to see and acknowledge their part, it was denial and I was imagining it all or convinced myself. Sure. No wonder I would cry myself to sleep and walk around with such a heavy heart filled with hopelessness. What a relief to have a reason for all that happened. I knew there had to be more to this than what I was enduring. There had to be a way out. But killing the other isn’t the answer. Getting out is. Finding the reason is.

Who would have thought having a relationship would be such a chore? Man/woman/family is becoming a thing of the past. Then when you have these cads who are out seducing just for the heck of it, makes me sick. I wish all women would get the word and put these guys out of business. But he’s just one. How about the ones we hear nothing about. I’ve rented apartments to men who went to the bars several nights a week trolling. They don’t make the news. But what they are doing proves nothing. What an empty life they have to take back to God at the end of their life!

I sure am thankful for all who write here. I love to be informed, now that I know I was right about something being wrong. I look forward each day to learn something new. I just feel stronger all the time. I finally have weapons and am ready to use them. Let them try now to seduce me with their worn out bodies and lines. I’m on to them.

EnnLondon

Aw Free, I’m smiling as I read your post – not in a bad way, but because of the familiarity of it all, and in good old non-sociopathic empathy. The amount of times I’d be saying to friends ‘WHY DOES HE NOT REALISE HE’S GIVING THESE WOMEN THE WRONG IDEA?!’ Of course he realised! And he loved it!

I don’t think it’s karma though – we’ve learned something important and I don’t think we’ll do it again. Though my ex wasn’t my first sociopath, I fell for it again because I didn’t have knowledge of this concept. I think that’s why people on these forums get annoyed when they watch films about sociopaths (ie men with double lies) and they’re not identified as sociopaths. How can that be done in a dramatic way though, without becoming like a textbook? (I want to know as I’m writing my own experience. I want to inform others, but that’s not going to happen without the clinical definition that’s helped me so much).

I don’t know if others feel the same but I *knew* early on there was something wrong. I never had the ‘there isn’t a cloud in the sky’ feeling. But, without knowledge that sociopaths are a real and relatively common thing, I just dismissed them all as ‘normality.’

eyesopened

EnnLondon

I innately knew things were off, too; I was always puzzled but excused my discomfort with his behaviors after listening to his explanations even if they didn’t make good “relationship” sense.

But, he wanted us to stay together (at least during those times when he wasn’t breaking up), so I figured I needed to lighten up, to compromise, to meet him at his level. Big mistake.

I also factored in that we grew up differently. I was reared strictly and he grew up rebelliously. I figured he didn’t have the benefit of good relationship skills.

I never felt comfortable calling him my boyfriend, though. It never came out naturally and I never said it. Somehow, it felt awkward and untrue.

One day, toward the end, I pulled out our separate photographs from some wrapping and put them together. I was immediately struck with the feeling that we didn’t even “look” like boyfriend and girlfriend. It wasn’t a good feeling; it’s not what I wanted to see and it’s probably not something anyone else would ever have noticed.

Those red flags inside just kept jumping up all over to get my attention. I love my little red flags now. I’m so grateful and pay close attention to them in all my relationships.

I know that part of experiencing that extreme of overriding my red flags was to teach me to listen to them.

alohatraveler

To FREE,

You said, “I look back now and see everything for what it was with new eyes.”

This is exactly where I am at now and I find it hurts less to reach this place of understanding.

Eyesopened said, “I love my little red flags now. I’m so grateful and pay close attention to them in all my relationships.”

May I second that? Yes, it’s weird but I feel like I have been to a foriegn land and now I know all about a different culture that I didn’t know about before. Now I recognize disordered behavior right away when I see it and I don’t engage with these people. I recognize Narciccism when I hear it too and I don’t try to talk through things and try to get someone to see another side. When I hear “me, me, me, me, me” I say “bye, bye, bye, bye, bye.” (Actually, I just quietly notice and then make a note to let that relationship go.) I am very busy getting my life back on track and I don’t have time for draining relationships.

I do not want any people in my life who do not feel for others, or do not take responsibility for their actions.

Also, I wonder all the time how to get this information out to women (and men) about Sociopaths. It appears that older women or divorced women with children are especially vulnerable targets but that’s just me observation with no stats. I am in my late 30’s, never married, and was about to let go of the whole find-a-man-and-live-happily-ever-after-thing when I met the Bad Man.

I told my Dad, “I admit it. I didn’t have a plan for my life. I thought for sure I would be married with children by now.”

On another note, I was just told that the Bad Man is now posting an ad for sex with a transexual. I am speechless.

CellStemCell

my question is this: can everyone with promiscous sexual behaviour be labeled “sociopath” ? So far this guy has a promiscuos sexual behaviour thats all. As Dr Hare said, do not put sociopath label on everyone, subjects (could be sociopaths) should be inteviewed by a skilled psychologist and assigned their score based on Psychopathy CheckList. You cannot label someone sociopath just because he sleeps around.

P.S. I am good looking guy and could get girls to bed quickly, however what holds me down is the knowledge that when people feel themselves USED they are hurt, I do not want to hurt anyone…I do have empathy.

What was absolutely galling about that interview and the link Donna provided on MSNBC was the comments.

Go read them if you have the stomach.

Many of them were cheering this guy on (not all from men, mind you) saying he was a great guy & a role model.

CellStemCell- no not all promiscuous types are sociopaths. But if you read the article, this man had ZERO remorse or guilt. And ZERO desire to change. He was just curious about why he was that way because he knew he was different.

No empathy, no remorse, no guilt, no apologies + exploitive behavior = sociopath.

His wife must be blind or complicit.

Beverly

To eyesopened. I totally agree with you. I hadnt been in a relationship for a very long time, so when I first met my ex, I excused alot of his weird behaviour, made allowances, discounted some of it – thinking it must be me. But there was something in me, that knew things were amiss, werent right, even though I hadnt been in a relationship for a long time, I ‘knew’ what right loving and genuine behaviour should be, even though I hadnt experienced much of it. There were so many things that gave his game away. He took no interest in me, he only pretended to be ‘on’ with me when he wanted something from me. Every request I made to assert my needs were denied. If I suggested we go somewhere, he made excuses not to go, even when we did go somewhere, he went off on his own – he clearly wanted absolute control and was also insulting me without me realising it, although I did know it felt wrong. He even called me his soulmate, which I thought was really weird, because he had done nothing to prove his specialness. He also had this weird way of keeping the ‘score’ even. If I paid for something, he made sure he paid back, so he wasnt indebted to me. He had alot of weird issues around energies of money and sex and the time spent with me. These energies he used liked strings of punishment, to reward me with his prescence and then disappear with flimsy excuses around having to work or just turning his phone off.

I have had my eyes opened too to a source of emotional vampirism I never realised existed. In a sense I saw an alternative reality, which has probably taken me down a life road which I never expected to go down. It is how we make a better quality of life for ourselves and are careful whom we let into our lives that is the challenge. also how we process what has happened. Many of these adult abusers are like wounded children playing havoc in an adult world

apt/mgr

The boyfriend has been charged with the murder of his girlfriend. There is still a lot of investigation going on about the case and lots of speculation, but he did approach her with a loaded rifle and baseball bat. Some witnesses say she had a death wish, others say a struggle ensued where he was attempting suicide and she tried to get the gun from him, others say there was a lot of animosity between them, even though they were to be married, others say drugs and alcohol were involved. Either way, she is dead and he is in jail. Senselessness. I would say the most of the truth died with her. Not to speak ill of the dead, but she had lots of relationship problems in her life. She had lots of different men over the course of her 33 years. It was said that she had been turning her life around. But because of a loaded rifle that didn’t have a place in that apartment and building, she no longer has any chances of making changes.

As I watch the news and read the articles, all I’m seeing is about the violence between the sexes. There is something so radically wrong in our society. The secular world calls it a mental disorder and the Christian community calls it sin. The Godlessness of people cause them to act out in evil ways. For those who believe God’s words, Galatians 5 tells of the difference between a life living in the flesh vs the spirit. We can see these differences as we observe the behaviors of people.

Our country is allowing laxness where morals and clean living are concerned. The very essence of God is being pushed out of so many things because it’s not politically correct. We might offend someone. I see our borders are being weakened because there is such a lack of self control. Hollywood shows weak people how to live and they act on it because they have no identity and try to exemplify these characters. There are so few role models for people to pattern their lives after. Without a genuine soul search, I see so many who just do what they want to do, when they want to do it, and defy anyone to tell them otherwise. According to God’s words that is sin.

These behaviors are as much a problem of the heart as it is the mind. I’ve known lots of people who have had the behaviors listed here, who when they committed their hearts to God and chose to pattern their lives after Christ, no longer had those issues. God’s words have stood the test of time. Man’s words don’t. There is an eternity for us to gain and it’s determined by the way we live this life. Truth-Fact-we all will die. When a lot of people are faced with dying, they suddenly scramble to find a right relationship with God. They want to change. Why can’t that happen before they are confronted with death? Why don’t they want a more fulfilling and purposeful way of living? I believe they are blinded by sin. They are living in darkness. It’s all about them. Their wants, needs and desires in preference of another. There is no Golden Rule in their thinking.

In my case, they would do this for others but not for me. There is so much convoluted thinking in relationships. I see so many who want the other person to do for them what they refuse to do for themselves. Jealously, anger, deceit, guile, selfishness, etc., all fruits of the flesh. A life without being at one with God. It’s not about a certain religion. It’s about God. I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t reverence a life with God, because they won’t have my interests at heart. We are living in a society that feels they don’t need to answer for anything and that thinking in spilling over into our relationships. A lot of empty vessels walking around. This emptiness goes into all cultures. It’s a human sickness. People are dying, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually, for lack of a Savior. The dysfunction that inhabits our homes, is because so many don’t and won’t concede to a Higher Power and just want to do it their way. The disorder and disunity that so many call marriage, friendship, etc., is so far from what was set in place by God from the beginning of time. And for me, I can’t submit to a man out of tyranny, but I will submit to a man who will submit his will to God and humble himself, because there will be a day when that will happen. Souls are being taken so rapidly anymore. There is so much death and destruction, and so many times it’s at the hands of someone who says, I love you. That isn’t love and isn’t even close. There are the natural catastrophes, that I feel are a wake up call for the rest of us. Somehow the message needs to be gotten out. It’s not uncool to walk with God and have a relationship with Him first. Christ has been my first love and I only ever wanted to share that love with others. Maybe it’s because of that relationship that my others failed. I don’t know. I was blamed for other issues. But I’ve learned that I don’t have to take that blame anymore.

How sad for so many who don’t have freedom in a relationship. My heart aches for the sadness that comes through the words of others. I’ve been there and God stopped the dysfunction and allowed truth. Now it’s all about the healing. And we all can find that healing. Since the truth came out in my life, my body is responding and I don’t have the ailments that plagued me for a long time. My mind isn’t troubled by the events anymore. My heart isn’t always crying out for someone. I’m not complete, but I sure have made strides. That, to me, has been God. He has directed my steps and I’ve found others who share that pain. We really can be there for each other. And how sad for those who have been killed or are dying bit by bit, emotionally, mentally, etc., at the hands of someone who wants absolute control and says, “I love you”.

jofary

apt/mg: I understand what you are saying about society having turned its back on God because it’s not politically correct.

However, what needs to be mentioned is that Christian (or otherwise Godly) women and men are often targeted by sociopaths because it’s guaranteed that Christians play by the rules, are loyal, compassionate and are all too willing to accept more then their fair share of responsibility – perfect fodder for a sociopath to hide behind and play his/her games.

It is encouraging to see that the world of sociopaths is starting to become exposed and information is being shared among the “normals” to prevent exploitation. I think we’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg as far as acknowledging the unseen damage these individuals cause. If you look back in history, the worst atrocities were committed by sociopathic individuals with power.

Sociopaths rely on secrecy and shame on the part of the “normals” to continue their self-serving, exploitive behaviour. When we become as open about the destruction they deliberately cause, we will probably begin to see changes to our whole society and world for the better.

The problem is what to DO with these people that are inherently parasitic and otherwise unwelcome? If we can’t change them, and they don’t want (or can’t) change themselves, where is their place in society? Clearly, society would improve vastly if such people were removed but what does that mean exactly?

Along with recognition and exposure of sociopaths, we need to start discussing realistic solutions to dealing with the problem instead of the approach we have now, which is certainly not pro-active.

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