By | May 5, 2010 43 Comments

Mothers of Lost Children to gather for White House vigil on Mothers Day

Editor’s note: The following press release was received from the California Protective Parents Association.

Mothers from across America who have lost their children because family courts ordered them into full custody or unsupervised visitation with their alleged abusers will gather for their first silent vigil at 11 am on Mothers’ Day, May 9, 2010 in front of the White House.

“We decided that Mother’s Day was the perfect time to stand vigil in front of the White House with mothers from all over America whose children are either dead or living in harm’s way because of the broken family court system,” said Connie Valentine, the vigil organizer and co-founder of the California Protective Parents Association.

Experts at the Leadership Council on Child Abuse and Interpersonal Violence estimate that more than 58,000 children each year are either placed into dangerous homes or forced to go on unsupervised visits with their alleged abusers by divorce courts that simultaneously deny the children’s safe, protective parents access to their sexually and physically abused children.

The 11 a.m. silent vigil and 12 noon press conference will take place in front of Lafayette Square, 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, D.C.

Mildred Muhammad, the ex-wife of the Beltway Sniper, will join grieving mothers who recently appeared on the Dr. Phil Show’s Crisis in the Family Courts. California mother Katie Tagle, whose nine-month old baby Wyatt was murdered by his father, and Illinois mother Amy Leichtenberg, whose two school-aged children, Duncan and Jack, were murdered by their father, will share their tragic stories of desperately trying to keep their children alive.

Advocates Kathleen Russell from the Center for Judicial Excellence and Eileen King from Justice for Children, who have been closely monitoring this escalating crisis for years, will discuss their work to expose and remedy the most under-reported human rights scandal in the United States.

These mothers of lost children are soccer moms, kindergarten teachers, physicians, flight attendants, dentists and homemakers. Most of them are middle class, educated and ordinary. They are safe, loving mothers (not addicts or abusers) who have been rendered powerless to protect their children from court-ordered child abuse. Most are battered women who tried to flee domestic abuse to save their children, only to end up mired in our nation’s family courts, unable to protect them at all.

“America’s Moms are coming to the President and First Lady to request a federal investigation into these horrific civil and human rights abuses.I need to make sure that that no parent has to ever go through this incredible pain again, and that my Duncan and Jack’s deaths mean something, ” said Amy Leichtenberg.

A cottage industry of mental health professionals and attorneys with cozy relationships with family court judges routinely bankrupt families with enormous court-ordered fees and often recommend that children be placed with their sexually or physically abusive fathers. Family court judges frequently ignore evidence of abuse, refuse to hear direct testimony from the children, and rubberstamp their cronies’ recommendations. Nurturing mothers are forced to pay costly fees to attend supervised visits with the children they raised, watching helplessly as their children continue to report abuse by their abusers to uncaring visitation monitors. Mothers who speak out about system failure often face judicial retaliation and lose what little time they have with their children. The unregulated cottage industry churns away, generating hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees to experts, while some of the worst cases settle only when the children turn 18. This is a national epidemic that is destroying families across America.

For information about the event, visit

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Ox Drover

I saw a man on an early morning national news show this morning. His wife was from Japan and they divorced, though he had an ORDER that she not take the children out of the US, she took their children to Japan. There is no treaty about such children with the US and Japanh, and he said over the last decade there have been 280+ children taken from US to Japan and no parent has ever seen those children again.

In Japan the children are automatically given to the mother in the event of divorce and even visitation for the biological fathers is very problematic, in his case he will never be allowed to have even visitation or contact with his children untill if and when they are adults and they want to contact him.

This is a world wide problem, not us here in the US. He did not indicate his wife was a psychopath, but if she had been it would not have made any difference, she has the children in Japan and since she is Japanese, his “claim” to his own children is null and void. He hopes that the media attention brought by his and other cases of children kidnapped to Japan will some day change the Japanese policy—but he admits he has no hope of seeing his children before they reach adulthood.



Wow……sometimes, I get so caught up in my own issues that I neglect to remember that there are so many, many, many parents out there who have lost their children, never to see them, again.

This is precisely why the topic and definition of sociopathy really needs to be addressed, and the court system LEARN about the damage that’s inflicted because of these parasites.

THEN, you have the flip-side of the parent that knows that their child(ren) is in danger from the other parent or partner, and they have to flee with those kids and go into hiding because the Courts mistakenly opt to force children to develop a “relationship” with both parents, no matter WHAT kind of animal the other parent might be.



excellent article, by the way (got onto a rant) 😉

Ox Drover

Dear Buttons, yea there are a great many of us who are on the same RANT that you are about this! Dr. Amy Castillo tried so hard to keep her kids away from her huband who had threatened to kill them to punish her and the judge gave him unsupervised visitation and he did just that! Baby Gabriel Johnson is another one kidnapped and either killed or given away to who knows who!

I always thought in that case that I would take my kids and RUN, but who knows what we would do in that situation for REAL. Keep hoping like we have done before with the Ps? If you run and get caught then what happens to the kids? It is a tough decision. All I can really say for sure is that I feel for these parents and I think God I have NOT been put in that position to make that choice to violate the law or risk my kids.


Same here, OxD, though I should have run the instant I *knew* something was horribly wrong. Rather than stare that tiger down, I stayed.

The whole crux of the matter is education. As it stands, the average person who hears/reads the term, “anti-social” assumes that a sociopath is equivalent to the unibomber.


I watched a movie the other night with Jennifer Lopez.
I have no idea the title…..but it was the evolution of such a topic….
How to protect our kids….
She went to the police….he h was wealthy and had power…..police said….well a tpo isn’t a golden fence…..
She decided to run…..

It was a captivating movie since I have lived a similar story….and it was interesting to ‘watch’ the decisions she made…..along the way…..

Does anyone know the name of this movie?
It was on TV.

Good movie…..


I’ve heard of it, EB, but I have never seen it, nor do I know the title.

Why is it that the “concerned” people are treated as if they’re screaming that the sky is falling when others are clearly in danger???? I’m experiencing the fallout of the eldest son’s treatment of the younger son and I warned everyone that I could think of. The answer? “…(youngest son)…is an adult and he has to recognize that he needs help.”

For the minor children, it’s even more horrible – they have no legal voice and hardly any advocacy, whatsoever.


Buttons….because FIRST….peeps must recognize there IS an issue…
to be able to accept it.

It’s twisted up in wads and when uncrumbled it isn’t the same paper……

I have watched and studied the behaviors…..and it’s best to remain calm and wait for others to ‘see’ it for themselves…..

My parents have been the most interesting study of all to me… they have continued to ignore the ‘facts’……and as all the rest of the family is jumping with glee…..they have yet to make ONE comment on the spaths recent confirmations of his drug arrest.
They have gone into their hole of denial and hiding…..
This is how they have dealt with my WHOLE LIFE……retreat and hide and deny.


How awful, EB……..bless your heart. Yep. The denial factor is so easy to execute, isn’t it? If we ignore it long enough, it will cease to be true.


Oh, and my own mom was so supportive of the ex spath when I told her that I intended to divorce him! “For the sakes of the children!” was her battle cry. It’s the children who don’t have a farking voice!!!!!!! (snarl, hiss, spit)


Erin B, “Enough”.

It was good, especially the ending.


I LOVED the ending too!!!
If I was only so lucky……
I found her thought process very intrigueing…….

Thanks for the title!



I must tell you ……
I just seized another opportunity… share the ‘word’ of CLUSTER B’s….
The census worker came by the house just now…..Hahahaha…..
guess what EB brought the subject back to …….

She was VERY interested and I’m thinking she’s gonna follow up on her own education of it…..
HA….jsut never know what you’ll learn by knocking on peeps doors….


I am so hoping that the court system will listen to my daughter. I found this article really sad because the kids are the innocent victims. The mom’s are ignored, they lost their voice twice over, once taken by the abuser and another time taken by the court system. The children don’t have a chance, it’s sick and wrong. They need our protection.

I used to say that some people should not be allowed to be parents about phsyical abusers, I have added many more people to the ‘should not be parents’ list. Always with the selfish, it’s all about me crap, and the children are the ones in the line of fire.

All the horror stories about children being with abusers, scares me.


It should scare you….it should alert us all!!!

My son asked for the opportunity to speak to the judge….and my attorney set this up……HE wanted to be heard…..
NOT coming from mom….and NOT coming from spath.
He had a one on one with the judge……and he was FINALLY heard…with his OWN voice!!!
JR didn’t get the impression, at the time he was heard…..and he wasn’t in the courtroom with us…..(good thing)…..BUT….by the judges rulings…..and how she dealt with the spath… was CLEAR JR was heard!!!
EB….full legal custody of kids! Extended order of protection remains in place for another year!

I will be applying for another renewal next month……due to recent actions.

Expect the unexpected…..always!


Thanks EB,

My therapist said the exact same thing today, expect the unexpected. At least JR was heard, that is promising.


And if you can figure out the ‘unexpected’ before you can expect it…..


My youngest son’s father tried to keep my son away from me. I had asked our son’s father to take him for a period to straighten him out. Our son was an uncontrollable 3 year old that tore my house down. The kid didn’t stop for a second!

My son’s dad took him to his home state. Then he didn’t want to bring him back after six months. He wouldn’t let me talk to son on phone.

I filed a court order to bring the boy back. The father responded by trying to declare me unfit.

The court appointed a Guardian et Litem which means court appointed attorney for the child. This attorney scheduled a home visit.

This attorney found the accusations unfounded. Son stayed with me.

My son’s dad didnt’ show up for the last court. He fled the state instead. Meaning he told a good story, but he didn’t follow through. He was worried about his warrant.

The court tried to uphold his accusations about me. I ripped into that court. You have got to be kidding me. The guy has a warrant, and now he skips state, yet you believe the things he says about me????

I didn’t give the court a chance to respond. I announced I was leaving with my son.

Good thing I handled it that way.

My son’s dad committed suicide 5 years later.

Can you imagine if my boy was around that?


Folks, I am scared reading the posts. Do I stay? do I run? I warned the judicial experts that the set up will traumatize my child. Never mind they said, children are “RESILIENT”. I can’t stand the word resilient anymore. It is what they (courts) say when they want something to go far away.
And? what do I have now? A child that exhibits way inappropriate sexuality and misses his S-path deeply having already bonded with him. And – I have S-path who already grew tired of the child. Speak of dichotomy. I want my baby happy AND safe. With P it cannot be both apparently. I feel for every mother…
You know, women do go through a lot more – 9months of carrying them under mother’s hearts, giving birth in pain, often raising the babies. If she is not a basket case, drunk,etc. My vote is always for the woman. Men just cannot love their offspring in the same way. there are exceptions, but they only prove the rule. I am with Japan and the biology – in the wild it is most often the female protecting the young.


Ya know… much as I hate to say it….what has been confirmed to me through this past month of spath filing a document with court to dismiss the harassment order…..

They don’t follow through…..

They file orders, state claims, make a stink…..and have no follow through.
This is why we don’t respond to all the accusations and do ONLY what is required by courts.

I can’t suggest to someone to defy court orders…..
BUT I highly recommend taking a close look at the weight.

If my children were in danger of death…’d be a no brainer…..SEE YA!
But most of us suspect danger with the spaths based on threats or past abuse…..but ‘They have never killed anyone’ yet type thinking…..
It’s all about a balance…..NONE of us want to be the ones dead or with dead children…..
WE and only US….must follow our guts…..WE must spend the time to be honest to thte core about our situations and do what is right in OUR cases.

Children are resiliant….yes…..but as mothers, we wish to protect our children at ALL costs…..from any harm.
This….I will tell you is impossible to do when the coparent is a spath.
So……it is up to us to protect them from what we can…..and allow the journey for them to ‘seeit’ on thier own….and ‘get it’ when they are ready.
This is the hardest part of having young children with a spath….
Weighing our options and best interests of our children.

History reveals itself…..when one spath parent pulls out the stops….and an active ‘other’ parent counter balances the ‘control’ the spath has over children……the child WILL have issues……and we can only counter balance them with our love and affection and teaching by modeling the behaviors that are accetptable in society.

As my children have grown older….all teens now….all but one is doing fine and the one in question is doing okay currently….
but they all ‘get it’…..about their father……on their own…..
by spaths doings….NOT what I have said……
I have modeled to them what healthy friendships are, what good behavior/acceptable behaviors in society are…..what love is…..what affection is……

Spaths DO fight…..initially… win…..then give up…..
it’s like fighting over a game of tug of war…..they come on strong….feel they are winning…..and give up with some excuse…..

I have not seen my spath pursue anything long term…..this is why I am pursueing EVERYTHING LONG TERM.
To show him….I am impenitrable……I WON”T GIVE up……so if your gonna file something….ya better follow through and be in it for the long haul……and he doesnt want to do that.
It showed with this last filing……
I was ‘supposed’ to be scared and jump to his wishes……and I didn’t…….he never came back to collect his things…..he never contacted the sheriff again…..he just disappeared.
It’s a game…..he wanted to be back to ‘connect’ and see if I had ‘changed my mind’ and would comply with his wishes….
I didn’t and I let it be known.

Like Jeannie said…..they tell a good story….but don’t show up to follow through….
It’s a hassle for us….but we just gotta hold our breath and DO IT!
Follow through…..this is where they get exposed….

they tell a damn good story…..but not an original one…..nothing new…..all the same repeats as the abusive man/woman before them…….this is why…as hard as it is….NEVER TAKE ANYTHING PERSONAL….and react from a personal stance….
It’s all BUSINESS……take offensive……NEVER DEFENSIVE.

Don’t respond to the riff raff……keep requiriing them to provide information….documented information…..
they won’t…because it’s too much of a hassle…..
They don’t like hassles they don’t create!

Good luck…..keep your head up and stay balanced and well grounded…..

Elizabeth Conley

This vigil is a good thing. I hope the media pays attention, because only then will our government pay attention.

There are some foul things going on with regard to social services, family courts and custody decisions. It’s high time the light of day illuminated these dirty dark corners of our nation.


GettingIt, do what will bring SAFETY to you heart and soul. Only you can make that decision, kiddo.

Elizabeth C, indeed…If I could have arranged to be there, I’d be out on the lawn, too. It galls me to no end at how The System(s) are truly blind. Each individual is different, and each situation comes with their own set of issues. Granted, the court dockets are filled with meaningless motions, filings, etc., and all in the name of “getting even.” But, shouldn’t there be an interest in prevent the use/abuse of the Courts by spaths?

Children did not have the luxury of choosing their parents. They do not have a legal voice until they are “of age.” Any advocacy for the rights of children are seen as hysterical and coming from angry, vengeful men and women (mostly women). How to change that and educate all of these agencies and systems???

Dani S

Hi Everyone,
This is wonderful. Even know the times will be different I will have a moment of silence at 11am Mother’s Day for all the lost kiddies and the lost voices in the court system which is a world wide problem! Hopefully with something like this, with more exposure and awarness it will get bigger each year!

jeannie812 my ex S did the exact same thing.
Tried to initially get our baby saying I was mentally unfit because I had a break down (which he made sure I had) Because I hit rock bottom from years of abuse and sort help, apparently then I was the one with the mental issues not him.

Anyway he couldn’t get her and then his legal team went to take me to court for her and he didnt turn up!…. Thing is he didnt really want her, he just loved tormenting me!……. and he never saw her again! I am a lucky one, I know that and my heart bleeds for these parents who cant protect their babies….

I knew our baby would not be safe in his hands, he took to much joy & pleasure in hurting me….. So that day he didnt turn up, I recieved sole custody & boy did we celebrate that night…. We knew she was safe from then on, an enormous relief.

I will make it my mission this Mothers day to somehow bring awareness in Australia as well…. Well off to think about that! Nite all!


Sorry to buck the trend here, but I find this article, and the choice by this organization to hold this demonstration on Mother’s Day, INFURIATING, and I’m frankly surprised that the members of LF aren’t recognizing the high degree of manipulation, coercive persuasion, and – frankly – mobbing potential being used when they see it.

Holding this demonstration on Mother’s Day – of all days – IMPLIES, but doesn’t SPECIFICALLY state that Mothers are uniquely the victims, and Fathers uniquely the perpetrators. And it sets up any dissenters – particularly male dissenters – to be mobbed if they dare to speak up.

Surely if we know anything by now, we know that women are as capable of abusive behaviour as men – particularly toward their children.

For those of us abused by psychopathic/sociopathic egg-donours (thanks for that expression OxDrover) or caregivers, holding this demonstration on Mother’s day is an example of manipulation extraodinaire!!!!! Mothers are statistically more likely than fathers to abuse and harm their children, but you would never know it from this!!!

For anyone who thinks I’m over-reacting, I’d suggest taking a tour around the website linked to on the left of this page under Blogroll: “What about when Mom is the Abuser”.

Sorry for the strong vent, and the CAPS!!!, but I have enough stuff to work through each Mother’s day as it is, without nonsense like this. Thank goodness I have a wonderful MIL to celebrate this Sunday.

Dani S

Sorry Annie if I offended you with my personal comments I didn’t see it as a male bashing! I saw it an opportunity to raise awarness either it be Mothers Day or Fathers Day. I agree the Article was on the pro mom side but it is such an importmant issue protecting our children and I dont care how it gets attention and awarness as long as somewhere down the track some little lives are saved and I think it is sad that you would use the word nonsense, there is no nonsense in people wanting to protect children.


I think Mothers Day is a PERFECT day to hold this silent vigil.
The mothers who are being represented have all lost their children to FATHERs……abuse.
This organization is not ‘gender’ specific….California Protective Parents Association, but this event is held to honor these mothers….and raise the awareness…on THIS issue….
Not bashing the men who have also been in these shoes.

Unfortunately, if this was held the 3rd Monday in August….it holds less impact.
These particular mothers need to make ‘good’ come out of their childrens loss or deaths…..I don’t see this as manipulative…..I see this as good planning/timing/marketing….since the purpose is TO BE HEARD!

I bet my bottom dollar….there WILL be men there honoring their lost children at the hands of the mothers also…..
I highly doubt MEN will be turned away.

This is not a feminist vigil…..
It’s about the children and the pain/loss/suffering…..its about BEING HEARD!

I recall several years back something similar being held on Fathers day also…..

I think it’s fabulous… get the word out and raise awareness of our broken family court system……HOWEVER the word is spread.

So…….turn that frown upside down…..and Enjoy your MIL…..and be thankful there is ANYONE willing to take a stand and ‘speak up’ on this topic.

Ox Drover

Dear Annie,

Look for the article I wrote about Baby Gabriel Johnson, whose4 father tried to protect him and the mother ran with him, told the father on the phone that she had killed the baby, then later said she had given him to a couple to adopt.

It doesn’t make any difference if the psychopathic parent is male or female—they will use and abuse the child.

The owner of the “When Mom is the abuser” site is a friend of mine and posts on here frequently. He is a mental health professional and a good one.

There are several other posters here who have been physically, emotionally and sexually abused by their mothers.

I really don’t think the “mother’s March” or vigil is a father bashing, just a representive group of mostly females using a
“holiday” to hopefully get some attention for the cause of CHILDREN who have been abused/kidnapped and/or killed by psychopathic parents.

I’m sorry Annie that you have had an egg-donor instead of a mother too. At least you had a good MIL and I did too. My MIL lived with my husband and me for 10 years and she was a hoot! I loved her very very much and she was my best-est friend! We take love were we can find it! ((((hugs))))) Oxy


Hi Dani, No worries – no offense taken. My post wasn’t meant to be a comment on yours.

But, with respect, I strongly suggest that this article is more propaganda than substance, and I stand by my “nonsense” comment.

If it truly meant to protect children, it would do so by protecting ALL vulnerable children, not just children in danger by fathers. I suspect some (not all, but definitely some) of its members really intend to protect maternal custody, under the guise of protecting children, and are taking advantage of those women who have lost children under horrific circumstances.

One of the ways to test for propaganda is to try switching perspectives. For instance:

1) Compare this:
“The following press release was received from the California Protective Parents Association.”

with this:
“For information about the event, visit”

2) Read the last paragraph of the article starting with :
“A cottage industry …” and examine how much bias, and misleading inference, it does or does not contain.

3) Go through the whole thing again, but this time switch the genders, and then think about how you would feel as a woman when popular culture is disparaging your gender by making one-sided statements such as “family court judges routinely bankrupt families with enormous court-ordered fees and often recommend that children be placed with their sexually or physically abusive mothers.”

4) Go through the whole thing again, but this time put yourself in the shoes of children who have been abducted/abused by mothers, with no chance of rescue by their fathers – because fathers are seen as abusers – and then see how fair it strikes you. Factor in the following:

“More women (58%) than men (42%) are perpetrators of all forms of child maltreatment. (Child Maltreatment: Facts at a Glance CDC) ” – from the website “When Mom is the Abuser” – linked on the left of this page.

5) Give some consideration to what this movement would look like if it had been “infiltrated” by female spaths, think about what steps they might take to concentrate their power over their children and ex’s and make themselves ‘untouchable’, and think about how the way this movement is presented might or might not support that.

Ox Drover

Annie, My take is that KIDS should have RIGHTS and parents have NO RIGHTS to kids…all the crap about The “rights” of a parent to have a child is bullchit! A kid has a right to GOOD PARENTS of whatever sex(s) ANY event that brings to light ANY abuse of kids by courts and/or parents is OK with me. If they want to have a march on Gay pride day for parents whose kids have been taken away by Straight co-parents, I’m for it. Anything to bring awareness to kids being abused or killed!


Hi OxDrover, and Erin,
It appears we were posting over each other. I just lost the post I was responding with – fat fingers too late at night. And Oxy, I appreciated your first post here about the father who lost his children.

My egg-donor spath milked her “mother” and aggrieved woman/feminist status for all it was worth. The language and tone of this press release just sound far, far too familiar. This type of thing would have been just up her alley.

Successful propaganda manipulates emotions (usually positive emotions at first) by using half-truths in order to slip obnoxious insidious concepts under the radar, while simultaneously making it politically incorrect for dissenters to speak up.

If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and I apologize to the organizers. But I believe my argument deserves some real honest-to-goodness consideration – politically incorrect or not.

Ox Drover

Annie, I am familiar with this group and have followed them for some time, they are afiliated with DV groups and “save the children” groups all over the US so not to worry, I don’t think this is one of your “nut job” groups! I CAN see why you would have been “triggered” by your past problem with your egg donor being the kind of person who would use “good causes” to twist—believe me, I can RELATE TO THAT!!!!!

Some of (NOT all) of the “protect father’s rights” groups are the same way—and I do KNOW there is injustice on both sides of the blanket, both mothers and fathers abuse kids, and the “professional” interventionists sometimes don’t get it either and rack up big fees for being a child “advocate” when they are NOT out for the kid’s benefit but to line their own pockets… well as the jjudges who took/take bribes etc. Can’t remember the guy’s name now but there is an article here about a judge who was a family court judge who was takikng bribes, giving his buddies jobs as “protectors” of the children and mistreating mothers and kids in every way. He finally went to federal prison for a few months. Big deal. I think he should have been HUNG by some part of his anatomy, not necessarily his neck or his toes…..if you get my drift!

ANYone who doesn’t put the rights of the children FIRST in my book is criminal. Whether they are straight or gay, male or female, up or down, right or left! If anyone in this world has rights to anything it is kids! Unfortunately, many times they get the short end of the stick in every way when there is a divorce or some kind of abuse being handed out!

But you know, Annie, it is okay not to totally trust any group in this world! IF anyone should know to check out folks, it is US here on LF!!!!! ((((hugs)))) g’nite


From “How to spot a con” on LF: “The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness,” Stout says. “It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy.”

The combination of consistently bad or inadequate behavior and frequent plays for your pity, Stout continues, is the closest thing to a warning you’ll ever get that you are being manipulated by a sociopath.”

Hi Oxy,
Thanks for the thought. I really respect your opinion, but in this case I strongly suggest that you take another look at their website. I didn’t post as I did because I was triggered, but because I was frustrated that no-one posting seemed to recognize the double-speak here.

In case it needs to be said, I’m all for demonstrating against a judicial system that doesn’t protect children – even on Mother’s Day. I’m just not convinced that that is this particular group’s aim – or at least not those members who’ve written the website and the press release.

As for what you said: I have no doubt that there are absolutely credible individuals within this organization, and the stated cause is critically important. But I still have strong suspicions (even more strongly since both my husband and I reviewed this to see if I was indeed biased as some of you seem to assert) that the members of this organization who wrote the website and the press release are not what they purport to be.

I’ll post the specific reasons after Mother’s day, when this is less “loaded”.

Ox Drover

Dear Annie,

I respect your opinion on this, and you know, while I respect many individuals in the Catholic church I don’t trust them ALL! Look at all the carp that has come out about pedophile priests! Nuns beating kids in Ireland, etc. NO ONE is totally above suspicion, no matter what their position is, no organization is totally above suspicion, no matter what it’s expressed mission is.

Remember when that CEO, I think it was United Way, that was the “big spender” and “high liver” who got his tit in a wringer when he was caught living like an Arab King on DONATION dollars meant for poor people.

That is why I am VERY careful about my donation dollars now. I used to donate to several organizations that I no longer donate to because their CEOS fly around in corporate jets instead of fly coach, because I think the money I give should go mostly to the mission not to salaries for CEOs and high living. Ditto on ministers, if a “preacher” or “minister” lives like the Queen of England he’s paid too high for my way of thinking. He doesn’t have to settle for one robe and a pair of sandals, but a $10 million dollar house is a bit much—and several “prominent” ministers actually have houses worth from $10 million on UP, yet these “men of God” still get on the air and ask for donations from little old ladies who can barely afford their medications on Social Security to help the “poor”, while he lives “high, wide and handsome.”

Yea, see, I can get on a rant too! LOL ((((hugs))))) Did you see the comment I made about you on the article about the kids from Russia and the ranch out in Montana?

This group on closer exam may be less than idea, but I DO hope they do some good for KIDS, in any case, they are not get6ting any of my money! LOL Have a good day!


Children do apparently have rights, but these are rarely promoted and rarely upheld. It seems that two rights are in conflict with the shared parenting with a spath situation
1) The child’s right to safety
2) The child’s right to have a relationship with both parents.

The document obliges governments to make policies and practices to improve outcomes for children and to report on these initiatives every five years. Currently only two countries have not signed the Convention – Ethiopia (which was entrenched in civil war at the time it was circulated) and the UNited States of America.

For my money, I would be choosing the right to safety over the right to relationship with both parents, but it seems courts are deciding opposite. If there is even a hint of danger for the child then the situation should be thoroughly investigated.

I think part of the problem with getting courts to understand how dangerous spaths are is that there are often no witnesses as the abuse happens in private. It’s then really easy to denounce the mother who raises the abuse as being vindictive towards the father or misinterpreting communication. Only people who have been in these abusive situations understand the full pattern and scope of the abuse. An outsider analysing one or two incidents could very easily dismiss that it is abusive at all. How do you describe the full horror of a look charged with hatred or four days of the silent treatment to someone who hasn’t been there?

Psychological and emotional abuse are every bit as damaging to children (in fact they’re more so) than physical abuse and these types ALWAYS accompany physical abuse. It is very difficult to get accurate statistics on abuse as most cases aren’t ever reported so there are millions of cases flying under the radar and just like women approaching shelters for DV, it is usually only the severe cases that are reported at all. While women may abuse children in similar proportions to men (difficult to ascertain from one source of statistics), men definitely are in higher proportions in adult abusive relationships – this is due in large part to cultural notions of a man’s home being his castle and the overhang of ‘male priviledge’ in male female relationships. Even when children are not directly abused, they are severely damaged from being in an abusive environment between two parents who are in a toxic relationship.

It is not always more healthy for children to have contact with both parents when one of those parents has personality disorder. It is much better for them to be with one parent who is stable and capable of love. The problem is a lack of awareness in court situations – judges can be just as easily manipulated in court as victims can in relationships and it’s sometimes difficult in these situations to see who is the abuser and who is the victim as the abuser often takes on the mantle of the victim in an act of blaming them. So many courts take the middle of the road option with shared custody, not realising that the P will use the children as an object of torture against the non P parent and doesn’t actually want contact for normal reasons.

I would like to think I would run in this situation, but that’s kind of unrealistic – how do you live? How do you get money and all the things you need for life?

This posting reminds me of an american couple who were accused of abusing their toddler after he presented with numerous fractures in emergency rooms. Child welfare authorities were moving to take the child and charge the parents so they fled and went into hiding with the child. They paid for private tests and scans and it was found the child had a form of osteoporosis so the bones were very fragile and shattered with the slightest bump. These parents did the right thing for themselves and their child but it took massive courage and support for them to do it. what if no medical condition had been found?

It’s important to look at the whole situation. If you’re a parent fighting a spath parent (regardless of whether they’re male or female but statistically 75% WILL be male) then gather a much evidence as you can find, document everything and find good literature on abuse to back up what you say. If you can find witnesses then so much the better – that will make your side of the story stronger. And never give up hope – these monsters often give up the battle when they realise how hard you will make it for them – that’s any negotiation at all. And they generally don’t want the children for themselves but rather as a tool of control and manipulation.

My heart goes out to people in this situation – it must be horrible to think your child could be manipulated and badly damaged by the court’s decision to be ‘fair’ to both parties. SUrely more attention to the issue will help everyone. Not everyone is safe to be a good parent, not everyone gives children unconditional positive regard and not everyone deserves to have uncontrolled access to their children. Children need some protection in life as they have a right to grow up safe.

Ox Drover

Dear Polly,

GREAT post and VERY WELL articulated! Yes, kids should have rights but you are right, most of the time the kids have NO voice. It boils down to a he-said/she-said situation. I can tell you that my egg donor is viewed as a saint, but I KNOW THE TRUTH…the truth that only I saw.

I have also, as a family health care practitioner been witness to knowing about abuse and not getting a thing done about it.

I’ve SEEN the devestation in the children of friends….and you are right too, emotional abuse is SOUL RAPE!


Thanks Oxy – it amazes me how many people don’t know about UNCROC (United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child) yet part of the responsibility of signing governments was to promote public awareness of the document to both adults and children. Having read through it in some detail, I can attest to the ‘legalese’ it is articulated in – adults would have a hard job understanding it let alone children.

This code takes the important step of recognising that children, by nature of their vulnerability and dependence on adults have special needs for care and protection that regular human rights legislation doesn’t address. Let’s not forget that children are the only members of society we can legally abuse under the guise of ‘guidance and punishment’. If I smacked an adult, I could be prosecuted for bodily harm, but it’s perfectly legal for parents to do this to children. Children are the most vulnerable members of society and depend on adults to advocate for them.

Abusers are cunning and manipulative and are often seen as saintlike (just like your egg donor and my ex). People have no idea of the horror that happened behind closed doors and wouldn’t believe it even if we shouted it from the rooftops. It’s a horrible predicament for people jointly parenting with a spath – they are likely to be seen as jealous and vindictive if they reveal the true nature of their adversary. Why do people always think victims have in some way provoked their own abuse? Sometimes there really is one good person and one evil person. Sometimes there really is a right story and a totally false story.

Emotional abuse in childhood is what lead most of us to take up with spaths in the first place so we are living proof of the devastation it causes.


Happy Mother’s Day

Being a “mother” doesn’t necessarily mean birthing children into the world. To me, it means taking healthy risks to “make it” in this world.

To all of the women who have taught me wisdom, agape, resourcefulness, and courage, may you be blessed ten-fold. Without the influence, guidance, and support of these incredible women, I would, for all intents and purposes, likely be buried, by now.

Thank you, each and every one.


Oxy thank you for those kind words. The sad thing I see in many of of the different organizations, be they womens rights or mens rights groups, is that they often mean well and are trying to do well and do good but they miss the unintended consequences of their actions.

This is not an issue about mothers versus fathers or even just a womens issue or a mens issue. It is a human issue and it effects everyone regardless of gender. A good number of groups have met with limited success and sometimes opposition because they do not seem to understand that this is an issue that all people are effected by and so all people should be a part of it. For example the press release could easily be seen as bashing fathers because of the way it is written. It was written as mothers versus fathers in the court system rather than good parents versus unfit parents leaving out the gender statements.

When groups (men and womens rights) do this it really does not help and it causes as much harm as it does good. ALL children and ALL parents who are fit deserve to have the courts stand up for them and for the children. According to the CDC stats on child maltreatment more women (58%) than men (42%) are perpetrators( So it is both men and women who are being abusive to children, both men and women who use and abuse the court system to enable them to further abuse children. If you look at children killed by their parents you will also find that the stats are pretty even for mothers and fathers.

Until the men/womens rights groups step back and take a look at the entire picture, the entire truth, the entire data (current data not 10-20 year data) they will continue to face resistance and only limited success in what they are doing. Trying to demonize men or women, mothers or fathers as a whole is wrong and destructive and abusive itself. Trying to portray men or women, mothers or fathers as the perfect parent or the “natural” parent or nurturing one is just as wrong. Men and women, mothers and fathers are human beings. All of them a capable of great good, great hearts and great child rearing skills. They are also capable of the opposite. We should be trying to promote positive “parents” period no matter what gender they may be.

My little rant is done now also. I hope all of you had a wonderful mothers days and to all you parents out there who fight the good fight to raise your children and do the right thing my hat is off to you.

Ox Drover

Dear Blogger,

I totally agree with you about the it is a PEOPLE thing, NOT A GENDER thing, my only point is that I don’t care if it is a group of “Pedophiles to protect kids” getting up a group march to bring public attention to the fact that CHILDREN ARE DYING because of the COURT SYSTEM not putting the kid’s rights first!

Sure I would rather have PARENTS MARCH rather than “Mothers” and who ever designed the march to coincide with “Mother’s day” may have done it just for the point that it was mother’s day so we’d have a “mother’s march”—-but if it made ONE PERSON aware that kids are DYING not because fathers/men are bad but because COURTS don’t take into consideration that KIDS HAVE RIGHTS TO SAFETY!

The search for baby Gabriel Johnson is a mother’s abuse, with the father trying to care for the child, the Calyee Anthony case is a psychopathic mother who killed her child, you or I can list tit for tat father abuser and mother abuser, and I think it is probably if ALL kinds of abuse are taken into account, about 50/50, at least pretty close to those figures, so that both genders are equally guilty of abuse of children and spouses/signifricant-others/partners.

Personally, I wish there was a way to distinguish the abuser from the non-abuser person, some way to “test” to be “sure”—just take an x-ray or a blood test and you could know the truth objectively. Unfortunately, it’s not that easy yet, maybe never will be, but I can wish any way.

Thanks, Blogger! Your words are always wisdom! BTW I finally finished reading your blog and all your connections from start to finish. Boy there is a lot of information on there with all the stories from the news, the connections and your comments. Took me almost 2 years of reading to get it all. Sometimes just reading the news stories was a trigger….have to digest it in small bites sometimes, but very good stuff! THANKS for all that you do Blogger, to educate others about abuse and for sharing so much of yourself! You are TRULY a UNIQUE AND WONDERFUL INDIVIDUAL! ((((Hugs))))) and God Bless you!



Thank you so very much for all your kind words. I very much appreciate the support you have shown to me and others.

Annie and others,

There is a great documentary called Dear Zachary: A letter to a son about his father. If you look at the site you can see that they are actually making some changes in the laws because of the work done by this documentary.

Here is a statement from the filmaker:

When my close friend Dr. Andrew Bagby (1973-2001) was murdered by his ex-girlfriend, Dr. Shirley Turner, I decided to make a film to memorialize him for family and friends. When I learned that Shirley Turner was pregnant with Andrew’s son, whom she later named Zachary, my project took on a whole new meaning. My mission became to make this film for Zachary, as a letter from all of Andrew’s loved ones to him, which he could one day view and get to know his father. When Shirley Turner killed again one year later in an unspeakable murder-suicide, my focus changed yet again. A second murder did not have to happen. From 2001 to 2003, Shirley Turner was an accused probable pre-meditated first degree murderer who had fled her home to avoid prosecution, and despite a pile of evidence that she was very likely a manipulative cold-blooded killer, the government of Canada allowed her to walk free on bail for a full year and a half, all the while having custody of a child. I found this situation beyond appalling ”“ that an accused pre-meditated murderer could flee the United States, find refuge in Canada and hang out partying while my friend lay in ashes inside an urn. Mostly, I found it appalling that, knowing how potentially dangerous she was, she was given the opportunity to kill again. –

There is home video’s, telephone calls, and more included in the documentary. This documentary is a great example of a person (in this case a mother) manipulating the system and worse. FYI – if you watch it make sure you watch it to the end as it takes about 12 minutes or more to get to the case stuff.

Ox Drover

Dear bloggerT,

Just reading the film maker’s statement made me tear up! I share his anger and frustration at such a person being allowed to walk free, much less to have custody of a child and to kill again! It seems to me so many times that “murder” isn’t even a crime any more these days.

I will try to down load the video but probably can’t do so as my internet connection is so slow (worse than dial up)

It makes me so sad that children are exposed to this kind of person, without conscience, by a court system that surely doesn’t get it! Thanks Blogger!

Ox Drover

This is also the same crime as the book “Dance with the Devil” by David Bagby. I actually started to order the DVD movie, and then backed out at the last second, I just realized that while I am FURIOUS that this little boy (age 13 months) was murdered by his mother, after she had killed his father, and Canada allowed her loose on bail while she awaited shipment back to the US for trial, I also realized that watching this movie would break my heart, I think sometimes we need to just focus on the positive.

The positive thing that this little boy Zachary in his short life accomplished is that Canada now has a law that will keep people like his mother in custody and allow loving family members to take care of the children instead of leaving them in harm’s way.

It little enough that Zachary’s death was required to get Canada to act on what appears to be to be “good sense” in handling people who are accused of horrible crimes and bail.

RIP Zachary. God bless you.


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