By | February 20, 2012 134 Comments

Murder trials show range of abusive behavior

Two women are dead, allegedly at the hands of their romantic partners. Both partners are currently on trial, and the cases were brought to my attention by Lovefraud readers. In the media accounts, I was struck by how these two cases illustrate a range of abusive behavior, from bumbling assault to possibly coldly calculated premeditated murder.

The first is the case of Yeardley Love, a University of Virginia lacrosse player who was found dead in her bed in the early hours of May 3, 2010. George Huguely V, also a lacrosse player, is charged in her murder.

The second case is that of Michelle Young, 29, of North Carolina. She was five months pregnant with her second child when she was found at home in a pool of blood on November 3, 2006. Her husband, Jason Young, is charged in the murder.

George Huguely V

George Huguely’s defense attorney, Fran Lawrence, admitted that Huguely played a role in the death of Yeardley Love. The trial is about determining whether Huguely intended to kill her, and the jury will begin deliberation on Wednesday.

ABC news reported the closing arguments in the trial:

“George played a role, but it’s overwhelmingly a tragedy,” Lawrence said, maintaining that there was no intent to kill. “He contributed to her death but he did not kill her. He left her there alive and that’s not up for dispute.”

He referred to Huguely as a “stupid drunk” and “boy athlete” who was not calculating or malicious. Lawrence said Huguely went to Love’s apartment to talk to her and to make up, not to kill her.

Still, the night of Love’s death, Huguely kicked in her bedroom door, left her in a pool of blood, and stole her laptop. But in a videotaped interview with police, he claimed he didn’t kill her. The interview was shown in court:

“I told her to chill out and I shook her a little bit,” he says during the interview. He then tells her that he wasn’t going to do anything to her.

Huguely then claimed that Love began to hit her head on the wall and he had told her to stop. Love was “freaking out. She kept banging her head against the wall, I was like ”¦ “stop!” he claimed.

He says that he never hit her, but then says that he took her by the arms and shoulders, but never strangled her.

“We were wrestling,” he told detectives. “I pushed her onto the bed and left.” He also said at one point that he held Love down on the floor to try to calm her down.

Of course, medical reports indicated that Love died of blunt force trauma to the head. Other testimony indicated that in February 2010, Huguely held Love in a chokehold, and later sent her a letter to apologize. And, when Love was with another man, he sent her an email that said, “I should have killed you.”

Huguely had a history of alcohol abuse, which is well documented. So while Huguely appears to be impulsive, violent and lying to justify what happened—does he really think people believe Love banged her own head against a wall?—he may not be cold, calculating and scheming. Not like the picture that emerged from the next case.

Jason Young

Michelle Young was found beaten to death in her home on November 3, 2006. Her then 2-year-old daughter, Cassidy, was also in the home, but unharmed. Although Jason Young was long suspected of the murder, he wasn’t arrested until December 2009. For background of the case, read:

Jason Young arrested for allegedly beating pregnant wife Michelle Young to death in North Carolina, on

Jason Young contended that he was out of town on business when the murder occurred. He never spoke to investigators. Prosecutors said he checked into a hotel in Virginia, drove 169 miles back to his home, beat his wife, drugged his daughter and then returned to Virginia to continue the business trip.

Although Jason Young admitted extramarital affairs, the case against him was circumstantial, and his trial ended in a hung jury in June of 2011. The prosecution is trying again to convict him. Read:

Second jury to hear Jason Young murder trial, on

The trial was underway last week in Raleigh, North Carolina, and the local NBC station had a reporter who was live blogging from the courtroom. The testimony was riveting—and oh-so-familiar for people who understand the behavior of sociopaths.

Live blog: Michelle’s sorority sister details relationship with Jason Young. (To read in chronological order, scroll to the bottom of the blog entries.)

Genevieve Jacobs Cargol, who was once engaged to Jason Young, described how he had assaulted her.

“Something inside him snapped like I’ve never seen before,” she said. “He physically came after me to get the ring off of my finger…”

“He grabbed me by the arms and threw me onto the bed with such force that it stunned me. He grabbed my arm so tightly it left [marks] in shapes of his fingers.”

She said he pinned her and pulled on her arms so hard, “I felt my shoulders were going to pop out of my sockets.”

Michelle Money, who was Michelle Young’s sorority sister, described an affair with Jason Young.

 Money and Jason had multiple conversations both before and after Michelle Young was killed. He spoke with her late on the night Michelle was murdered and again the next day.

Then there was the testimony of Ashley Palmatier, a day care worker who took care of Cassidy Young six days after the murder. The child had two dolls, and was using one doll to smash the “mommy doll.”

Jason Young live blog: Day care worker describes Cassidy reaction with dolls.

Palmatier said she was making the rounds at the day care, talking to the children, when she saw Cassidy  had taken two dolls out of a bucket with about 10 dolls. One of the dolls was a female, with a brown pony tail, which she called “the mommy doll.” The other was an older woman doll with gray hair.

Cassidy, then 2, had the older woman doll in one hand with a small toy chair and was smashing the chair and older doll against the mommy doll.

“I had asked her the first time what she was doing. That’s when I noticed exactly what she was doing,” Palmatier testified.

“She began to say that mommy is getting a spanking for biting. And she also said that mommy has boo boos all over her.”

Jason Young admitted that he could be an “immature jerk,” and that he cheated on his wife. But he denied killing her.

The testimony from other women who were involved with Jason Young clearly shows that he exhibited sociopathic behavior. The murder of Michelle Young shows planning and premeditation. But will Jason Young be convicted? We’ll have to wait and see.

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Ox Drover

Intimate partner violence very seldom in my experience goes from “Zero to Sixty” to start with, it seems to me that it almost always creeps up slowly over some period of time unless there is a motive such as money which keeps the intimate partner psychopath pretending to be “lovey dovey” until the kill.

The murder of both these women seems to show that both of these women had suffered violence that was getting worse over a period of time, and ultimately lead their intimate partners to murder them.

As for the first one, I have never thought he premeditated the murder, but that he was (probably) drunk and simply raged out of control.

As for the Jason young murder, l think he preplanned to murder her. He was able to contain his rage and intentions in order to make a plan ahead of time. The apparent premeditation of the Young murder makes me think he had the intention to kill her in a cold blooded manner. I also think there is little to no doubt that there was violence leading up to this intention to kill her that went on behind closed doors.

Another murder that comes to mind is the Laci Petersen murder. Though I have never read anywhere that Scot “abused” Laci or that she told anyone he did or that anyone SAW him abuse her, I don’t think that “behind closed doors” there was not a LOT of abuse going on. I think that Laci was SO INTENT ON PRESERVING THE PERFECT LOVE/PERFECT MARRIAGE/PERFECT LITTLE FAMILY image that she hid what went on behind closed doors.

The take home lesson from all of these murders is that when you are involved in a relationship with someone who has been violent with others, someone who has been violent with you, then you are risking your life to stay with them, and you are also risking your life to leave them, because most murders of intimate partners occur during the “leaving phase”—

I would be willing to “guess” that “99.9%” of all intimate partner murder has been preceded by some form of intimate partner violence prior to the actual murder.

So my bottom line is, if you are still staying with a who is emotionally or physically violent—GET HELP AND GET OUT! For your sake, for the sake of those that love you and for the sake of your children.


OxD, you are so spot-on. Something has to be brewing prior to such an act of violence, definitely.

“Getting out” is prudent, but often daunting given the statistics. Indicating to the abusive partner that they intend to leave gives the victims the worst possible odds – abusers don’t want to “lose” their “property,” and will resort to murder to make sure that they don’t.

A successful and safe exit means swallowing pride/fear/whatever, contacting the local domestic violence hotline, and formulating a SAFE exit strategy with professionals who can help victims to get it done, safely. SAY NOTHING to the abuser or any well-meaning family member or friend of any intent to leave, divorce, or run – everything’s status quo and the victim must pretend that all is well. Especially, if children are involved. Children should not bear the burden of keeping such a secret when the abuser will coerce the plan out of them in one way or another.

And, gawdalmighty, don’t let on that you “know” anything. In my case, I let the worm know that I was aware of his activities and that I did not believe a single word that came out of his mouth – I told him this, point-blank. He set me up to look like a screaming fruit loop, and I did not take the time to think about the truths and how to exit safely.

Brightest blessings….

Ox Drover


Yes, playing our cards close to our chests is the BEST way to exit ANY abusive relationship–with an intimate relationship, or a family relationship, friend, etc. no matter WHAT the kind of relationship, we must keep in mind that a psychopath has no conscience so getting out is the only way to handle it.

Unfortunately, many people who share children with these people have to have contact with them….the courts demand it. But just like the lady who took her kids and sought safety in the Netherlands, “you does what ya hav’ta do” to be safe. It is unfortunate that sometimes it means breaking the law.

Staying and putting yourself at risk for death (or worse) is not an option, but many times people don’t see the ultimate betrayal as likely. I dont’ imagine Laci Petersen thought he would kill her either….but she was so intense I think on keeping up this FANTASY PERFECT MARRIAGE that she didn’t realize how it would end.



Laci Petersen… of thousands, right? Very, very sad waste of a human life by something that doesn’t even have a soul.

There are some people who don’t understand that these people really do not care – I mean, they really do not care. How that is, I cannot explain – nobody can. They simply have no remorse for anything that they do.



you said, “I think that Laci was SO INTENT ON PRESERVING THE PERFECT LOVE/PERFECT MARRIAGE/PERFECT LITTLE FAMILY image that she hid what went on behind closed doors.”

Yup. Totally agree and been there. When I was going through that, it was partly about my image, partly about wanting to spare others from the embarrassment I thought they would feel if I revealed anything about what my life was really like (a lot of people just DON’T want to hear it, DON’T want to know), and partly the HOPE I still held in my heart that my family could be “fixed” and that this was just a “rough patch” or “you know, marriage is hard work… I keep hearing people say ‘you have to work at your marriage every day’ and I guess that’s just what they mean…”

Truly — I did not know that the “work” I was doing was NOT what people meant when they said that marriage was “hard work.” I. Did. Not. Know. And since they didn’t tell me exactly what that work was that they were doing…. I seriously ASSUMED that our lives were SIMILAR.

I know it sounds stupid now, but that is what I thought I knew, what I thought was going on. When people would say they had a “fight” with their husband I didn’t know they meant that they’d disagreed mildly over how to fold the socks.

To me, a “fight” was something really awful, yelling, violent.

It took me 7 years before I finally asked someone to explain what they meant by “hard work” and when I finally learned… I felt angry that no one had bothered to explain. But then, I hadn’t bothered to ask…


20 years,
you keep telling my life story… were you watching me?
It’s uncanny how you can even describe my thinking process… lol!


Skylar, yeah LOL I am so glad I can laugh about it all now. It is good to hear that others went through similar stuff! It helps a lot.

What if we could have found each other back then?

The day I woke up and realized that behind closed doors, my marriage was very, very different from most everyone else I knew… that was an unsettling day. Up until then, I did not say or think that I was in an abusive situation. And then, suddenly, it was like a huge truck rammed a hole right through my entire frame of reference. A giant, gaping hole in everything I’d thought was real. This is a massive, psychological thing to go through. No wonder people have strong defenses against it.

We really cannot condemn someone who is in denial. The truth can be very jarring, very hard to accept.

Once your belief systems are blown apart, I think you either totally lose it, cover up the pain with drugs, or you find a way to rebuild that is based on truth.

I also definitely think it is very true that there are so many people who also don’t want to believe the ugly truth about a friend’s or loved one’s abusive marriage, especially if they’ve only seen the mask… I had way too many people try to tell me that they thought I was mistaken, that my husband couldn’t be “that bad,” or else that I was probably doomed for the rest of my life to “seek” abusive relationships, since I obviously had “sought” this one!!! (cause that’s what we abuse victims do, right?)


How about this one classic spath behavior. Guy in UK buries mother of his child alive.

He says: “He got bored with her. Fiance say’s, “she never saw it coming and now hates him.”
Spath cut breathing holes in box to cover his butt and said, “it was all a joke to scare her.” He intended to go back for her later on.
This was after he tazed her, bound & gagged her and buried her alive with an 88lb. tree branch on top of her. Victims engagement ring saved her life as she used it to cut herself out of card board coffin.
Spath got only 20 years for it. But UK is known for giving lenient sentences out to criminals.


yep, for anyone who decides on a life of crime, go to the UK!

How do these people not see the reality of what this spath is? he will get out in 8 years and do it again. These deeply ingrained PD’s don’t change. ever.


joanie, there’s an episode of an Australian hospital series showing the exact same thing – a speed addicted spath burried his gf alive. Hospital staff knows he hurt someone but not to what extent. The ER chief doctor manages to get the info by withholding painkillers.

This guy ought to be locked away forever, no parole. He and she were lucky she survived at all.


I never got to thank you for your support on another thread here. I truly appreciate it.
Just an update…I don’t know what to do.

Yesterday, when I sent my D the message that she can come home on MY terms…she never replied. I guess if she can’t have her “luxuries” here…she doesn’t want to come home.

She really only wants to come home so that I drive her to her new job four nights a week.

She has NO intention or desire to repair her broken relationship with her family..her sisters and me.

So, each day she has emailed me …calling them “contact# 1” and 2, etc.

Today I did NOT get an email where she is. She was told that if I don’t get an email of her whereabouts each day…that I will contact the police and they will file a “missing persons” report.

So…..I think she just wants me to send the police to get her…to force her home. SHe is TOO proud to come home on her own.

I think this is her new ploy.

What do you think?



I think you should do what you threatened to do: go to police, and have her filed as “missing person”. It doesn’t matter what her ploy is. One can go nuts when trying to figure out another person’s intentions, especially when they’re manipulative. Do not let the enforcement of your rules depend on what her ploy might be. What is important is that you do what you promised to do if she did not follow the rules. At the very least then you’ll be giving stability to yourself.

Edited to add after some thought:
I get the feeling she’s testing you: you gave her a carrot and crossed your own boundaries, she flung it right back in your face, then she tested to see whether you would give in to her demands, you didn’t, so now she’s testing what happens if she does not comply to your rules imo: are your boundaries for real? If you don’t do what you promised you would if she does not follow the rules does she still get to have her way, or do keep to your boundaries. That is how it comes across to me.


Thanks Darwin..

I texted the neighbor. She told me that my D was at her boyfriend’s house. She finally emailed me. I’m sure the neighbor is going to get sick of me checking on her.

I don’t want the police to bring her home. She has done so much damage to me and her sisters. She can’t just walk in here like nothing happenned.

I truly believe that she is “brainwashed” by her b/f. She became vegan like him…(and doesn’t eat right and is constantly vomiting)..she doesn’t watch tv or listen to radio..anymore…HIS philosophy. She doesn’t believe in God…HIS view.

She’s lost who she is.



I don’t think there is one culprit or cause of this… but a mix of everything: bad bf, slumbering genetics, teenhood, boundaries, golden child history. It all just came together and made a mess of it all. You don’t have control over the bf, nor the genes, or the effects of her teen hormons… but you can have control over the last two things: that’s 2 out of the 5 elements at the moment. And the teenhood roller coaster on a hormonal level will settle down as well. So, that would make 3/5 for the future. If the genetics is only a weak factor in it, then you might have a winning hand with the boundaries n the long run. And at the very least it is a winning hand for yourself and your other two daughters. Let’s hope the bad bf moves on quickly and she doesn’t replace him with another bad boy.



You are so right. I cannot blame it on him totally, even though he is a big influence on her. If it isn’t him, it will be someone else.
I truly believe that its more genetic and me enabling her. I was too generous and allowed her to overstep boundaries.

Now I am paying for it. I chose the wrong man to have children with and then allowed her to disrespect me.

Its too late.

She is conning my uncle to buy her a car. She lied about needing the car to take some college courses…and he’s all for education.

I spoke to him and said that I am NOT allowing her to have a car. I am her mother and as long as I am responsible for her…I will not let her have a car.

I will have to go to court to report that she is no longer in my care. I don’t need to be responsible for her driving past the 11 o’clock curfew.

I hope he listens to me.

I feel so out of control.



it occurred to me that the boyfriend might actually be egging her on to get her own room. He wants to spend the night (for sex), maybe even move in (a little bit at a time) and that isn’t going to happen if she’s sharing a room.

I’m kinda slow sometimes, maybe you already thought of that.



nip that car-buyig in the but. Don’t allow her to financially abuse family for her.

And sky, I think you’re on to something. Lol, hadn’t occurred to me either :blush: (euhm, that didn’t work)


thats : oops :
without the spaces.

Here’s a question: how the HECK did that go over our heads?
Of course she wants her own bedroom so she can have him sleep with her! duh! But WHY didn’t we see that? distractions?
I’m having a WTF? moment.


2B, it is very hard to raise kids and you are raising — what, 3 of them? This is a tough, tough thing. If all of them “get with the program” and reinforce your home culture of respect, then it’s great, not too difficult, etc. but when one of them starts going her own way and dissing you, it really makes it tough to parent the other two. This is no small thing I’m trying to tell you. What you are dealing with is incredibly tough. I think you are doing it with a great deal of grace and in a very thoughtful manner.

I get a little worried when I hear you blaming yourself in part for “enabling.” That is such a loaded and complicated concept. I’m not saying it isn’t a useful concept, but it is easy to sink down in a murky swamp of self-blame, and you absolutely cannot afford to do that right now.

Try, if you can (if this applies — I’m not sure) to tell yourself that “that was then — I didn’t know stuff then that I know now. If i’d known then what I know now, then I might have acted differently. I did the very best I could, with the very best of intentions.” And try to just let it go.

Now that you know some new stuff, you can act according to the stuff you know NOW. And in a few years, you will know new things, and make different choices based on that new knowledge.

That is all any of us can do. There are tremendous forces in the world, however, conspiring to set us up for self-blame, which is a very destructive thing.

You are a very good mother. You love all of your children. The actions your daughter is taking now, means that you have to parent her differently than you had been. It is not all up to you; she is steering her own ship and you cannot control this. Set up your strong boundaries, tell yourself you will get through this, and be patient and loving towards yourself.

It would not be easy, but it would be so much easier in some ways, if you only had this one child. But you still have two more and that makes your job very complicated. I cannot underestimate this for you — no one is going to understand what you are going through, unless they have been through something similar. Most people have not.

Hang in there.


20 years…

Thank you for your support. I am a WRECK. I can’t even sleep a whole night through. I woke up this morning after a terrible nights sleep….worn out and wondering if this is going to be the death of me. I am almost 55 yrs old, and to have the daughter that I gave the most to…did the most for…call me “unfit” and refer to her sisters as “ur kids” and demand that she have her own “space” ….is just shocking to me. I think I am still in a state of shock. Physically, I feel weak and drained. I force myself to do everything. Its so unfair to my other girls. I am trying to keep my spirits up for them, but its all an act. Once they are out in the morning, I am so sad, hurt, angry and drained.

She is definitely influenced by her b/f. She would come home and not say a word to anyone and just walk into her room, shut the door and isolate herself. When he walked in with her, they would both walk past my girls and me and not say hello or even look our way. Its just unphatomable. NO RESPECT.

It was as if I “owed” her the room and food money and to use (and abuse) my car. She did NOTHING to help around the house. I once asked her if she could take the trash outside, when she came out of her room (shell)…and she looked at me like I had three heads, and said “You hate me, don’t you?”

Ever since she met this boy, she started acting like him..even talks like him. She took over his identity…totally changed into him. Only when he was in Europe for 3 weeks, did I have my D back! She spent time out of her room and sat in the LR and kitchen with us! She was back to herself…talking to her sisters and me. Cooking for us…eating with us. She claimed to have broken up with him while he was overseas, because he lied to her and was in touch with another girl.

He is an expressionless, sociopath. He once told me not to make facial expressions when I talk to people because it lets them know who you are! I could go on and on about him…but its HER that is allowing him to lead her away from the family.

So, she wants to come back ONLY if she gets her own room, only if she gets a car…and a phone. She doesn’t want to repair her relationship with her family. She just wants to use me.

Now she is working on my uncle to buy her a car! She made up lies and told him she NEEDS the car. He is considering it. I am livid!! I am responsible for her until she is 18. If she gets a car and abuses her driving privileges as she has in the past with MY car…picking up friends, when only ONE family member is allowed in the car at a time…staying out after 11…when the curfew for provisional drivers is 11pm! I told him NOT to buy her the car! If he does, I will go to court to file that she is incorrigible and I cannot be responsible for her. OMG…its a nightmare. She is looking for anyone to GIVE her what she wants!

I am at my wits end with this whole thing. I feel like I’m going to just die. My nerves are shot.


Slylar and Darwin…

Of course thats why she wants her own room!!!AND…to just isolate herself from the family…to continue “hiding” in her room to avoid us. She just wants to “use” my home for her own needs.
She even refers to it as “I want to live in “your” home. NOT, “I want to come home!” omg…its pathetic. Still in shock and trying to muster up energy to do everything. I am drained.

I appreciate your support so much.


2B… your situation is SERIOUS. I am concerned by what you express, about how you are feeling (“a wreck,” “nerves shot,” “going to just die,” etc.).

I’m going to say some things, I hope this comes across OK and doesn’t put you off. I have not been in your exact situation; only that I have 3 kids and I’ve been dissed by them at various points (sometimes for days or weeks on end) when they are “in thrall to” the sociopaths in their lives… so I know a bit about what it is to be attacked like this, and what I have done to help get me through or recover from it. I have felt those things, too (wreck, nerves shot, like I might die).

So I’m not going to underestimate what you are going through, or tell you to just “be strong” or minimize any of this.

Your mileage may vary, of course, in what I’m about to say. I am offering it only in case some bits of it might be helpful to you. 🙂

First, I’m about 50 years old myself. It was only about 4 years ago that I became aware that such things as psychic stuff might have some truth to them. Prior to that, I thought it was total BS mumbo jumbo. This change of mind came about because of some things which happened to me, for which there was NO OTHER POSSIBLE EXPLANATION and I’m a very strong skeptic. It took me a couple years to sort through the shock of the paradigm shift and integrate what had happened into my more traditional God beliefs. I didn’t want to be a psychic weirdo. But I was interested in truth.

I have to say what I just said, because this falls into that category — and I do hope it is helpful, though I realize it might not be.

From my perspective, what you are describing sounds to me like you have been psychically attacked. If what you are trying NOW (to hold yourself together) is not working, then it is possible if you can think of it as a psychic attack (meaning, some kind of energy transfer as one other way of putting it), then you might be able to discover remedies (to clear any foreign, negative energy from you, and to ground yourself in case parts of you have wandered off) and more importantly, how to protect yourself (to keep yourself intact and strong) against future attacks.

I am sorry, and really hesitate to express such things because I know they are not in the mainstream and can put people off. But I do really want to help you, so in case you think any part of this may apply to you, look into it further.

The concrete things which I did, to energetically heal myself and protect myself include:

1. scanning myself and my home to find out where the negative energies had collected and become stuck (you can do this yourself or find someone with these abilities to help you).
2. cleared these spaces (in my home) through smudging with sage and setting positive intentions (reclaiming my space as my own). (do yourself, or find someone to help)
3. setting up protective boundaries/barriers to prevent these things happening again (this requires deliberate thought and intention).
4. going to an energy healer/shaman who could help draw the negative energy from specific parts of my body where they had become “stuck.” (this was amazingly and instantly effective)
5. Learning how to ground myself and set up protective boundaries. (different ways to do this — I visualize and pray)
6. Praying to God for guidance and protection and to help me be the “right kind of mother” to my child, who was obviously going through something right now.
7. Praying to God for strength and to learn whatever lessons were there for me to learn.
8. Praying to God to be always in His service and that my actions and thoughts are righteous, and to not be led astray.
9. Setting up helpful rituals for myself such as a nightly bath with lavender/rosemary essential oils, candles, where I would meditate and talk to God.
10. I have learned to listen to myself, and listen FOR negative self-talk, and immediately “correct” it out loud if necessary. For example, if I hear myself saying, “oh, I just CAN’T GO ON any longer!” I immediately say, “but I’m sure things are going to be getting better soon, and I will find peace and joy.”
11. A running theme in here is that I WANT things to improve, I WANT to be closer to God, and I WANT to act always with Love and to be helpful (though I realize I may not always perceive what it is that I need to do in order to be helpful).

I realize that the above uses some psychic-types of words and some religious-types of words, and many people have their own meanings attached to these words… so it is possible that what I’m trying to convey will not come across exactly as I intend it (for example, my use of the word “righteous” may mean different things to different people).

When I was psychically attacked by the CPS investigator, I felt it in my chest, in my heart region, and it was a feeling of dread or self-loathing, or that I needed to die. I felt this way for 2 weeks before I realized that I’d been attacked by her (and that I’d allowed myself to be attacked). I scanned my kitchen where she had been, and sure enough right in the space where she’d sat was a very dark, negative spot. And I wish it hadn’t taken 2 weeks for me to realize that I’d been attacked, but once I did, I cleared the energy in the house (with sage and prayer) and I sought the help of an energy healer who did a shamanic extraction on me, and I felt immediately better.

All I’m saying is, if what you are experiencing is so very awful that you think you might die, then if you are open to it, it might be worth it to consider energy healing along with the other things you are doing.

You are worth it, you are a good mother, you are doing your job, you are suffering, and in order to be a strong mother right now so you bend and don’t break… do whatever you need to to take care of yourself, heal, and protect yourself.

Eat nourishing food, try to meditate, pray if that’s something that you do, set positive intentions for yourself AND your troubled daughter.

It certainly does sound as though it is her boyfriend doing this. How can you protect yourself from him? How can you protect your daughter from him? It is very tough when others around you are trying to be “helpful” by giving her things that you know are bad for her, and also perhaps judging you (wrongly, incorrectly) for refusing to enable her.

My heart goes out to you.


20 yrs. THANK YOU!

I took a deep breath after reading your post to me. I am heating up my hot tub right now.
I did contact my uncle in writing and on the phone…and told him NOT to assist her with money or a car because he will be contributing to her delinquency.
I told him that she is a minor and “I” am responsible for her with that car! And, if he helps her…she will run amuck as she is now.

He understood and said he won’t. “I” am her mother and I am not giving him permission to contact her anymore or assist her.
He means well but she manipulated and lied to him about needing the car to take college courses!!! She is lying. The courses she can take are at the high school where she attends and they are during the day as credits for high school. She painted a picture for him that is a lie.

As long as he doesn’t help her…she will reap the consequences of leaving home.

I think he understands that I will take him to court and that I don’t need to worry more than I am with her speeding around town and staying out all night driving, as she has done when she borrowed MY car.

I know I have to protect myself in ALL ways now. And, I have to take care of ME through this..and not let her kill me.

I will reread your post and work on bringing some peace and faith back into my life. Anxiety is fear…and this morning I was full of fear.

I appreciate your support SO much. HUGS

Ox Drover


You did well with telling the uncle to back off and I hope he does. Is there anyone else she will try the same crap on? That’s part of the problem, it is difficult to anticipate what they will do next, so you end up with anxiety about “when the other shoe will fall” and will it hit you on the head?

Let me ask you a DIRECT question, HAVE YOU CONTACTED AN ATTORNEY to find out what the laws in your state are about minors who leave home? You ARE more than likely responsible for damages she does….and that includes driving a car…and of course if she had a car she would need INSURANCE too…but even insurance may not cover the damages she might do….like killing someone in a wreck, so since she is under 18 the victims could come after YOU for excess judgment over what insurance paid.

It should not cost much for 1 consultation (maybe free) and you would KNOW exactly what your responsibilities and liabilities are concerning Miss Priss.

Until you KNOW those limits you are just WALKING BLINDLY IN THE DARK.

Also, I worked at LOCKED JUVENILE facilities where we had many Miss Priss’s just like her so there might be a possibility to get her butt put in one where she can get some psych help AND you don’t have to take her back home.

It is also possible you could emancipate her legally. That should not be costly at all and you would be rid of the chance of her coming back home.

You said “I know I have to protect myself in ALL ways now. And, I have to take care of ME through this..” FIND OUT WHAT YOUR RIGHTS AND RESPONSIBILITIES TOWARD ANN OUT OF CONTROL MINOR CHILD ARE….take care of yourself 2B (and yes, I AM NAGGING!) (((Hugs))))


OK, I have some random thoughts for you 2B,

First, I know you posted on another thread about this and I saw some of what you wrote there… but I’m not sure I’m up on the whole story. So if you want to give a quick run-through… I’m just thinking, I might be missing an important piece or making wrong assumptions.

Like, did this recently/suddenly happen, and up until then she was “normal” or were there signs of this from before? (it is possible that genetics from a sociopathic parent take over “suddenly” — that has been known to happen, but it is just as possible and maybe more likely that that is NOT what is going on, and I sure hate to have anyone write off your daughter over what might be a very unpleasant, painful phase).

My impression is that this kicked in when she met this current BF. Is this correct? Is he her first BF?

How are her other friendships? Have they disappeared, or does she have stable friendships?

How has the relationship been before? How are her grades and have those changed? Other interests or activities — any changes?

These are just my shot in the dark questions. The impression I’m getting from you is that this is a sudden change, that this might be her first BF, and/or first sexual/serious BF.

It is very tough to tease all this apart especially when you are under attack by her and potentially others, and also with others quick to judge you and step in and meddle just as you are trying to set healthy boundaries (this boundary-setting business is always a moving target, and I think hit or miss… when they get to their teens, all sorts of things can change, and what seemed to work before may suddenly stop working. It can be hard to re-think and come up with a new plan, again especially while you are under attack).

I would be cautious about judging your daughter as having sociopathic genes kicking in, though you cannot rule out that possibility. So that is what makes this so very tough. In order to come up with the right actions, it helps a lot to have confidence that you are making the correct and most helpful decisions, and not just set boundaries “at random” that you are then sort of forced to stick to or you end up caving and looking weak.

But I think, if you can take time for yourself (to meditate, or whatever process you might like to call it), the answers will often come, especially if you ask and expect to receive an answer. It is worth a try.

What is your gut feeling about your daughter? Irredeemable? Or under the spell of a very bad influence?

I also want to offer something about this vegan business… I know that not everyone will agree with me, so I do not mean to offend. One of my daughters (the one who has the most issues and got me in trouble with CPS; the one who acted out and acted hatefully towards me) is a committed vegetarian. I supported this choice of hers for several years (it has been about 6 years now). But now I am learning an awful lot more about nutrition than I knew before, even though I thought I knew what I needed to, to be healthy (I am very health conscious)… and now I have completely turned around my thinking on that. I no longer believe that vegetarian/vegan is healthy for most/all people. I think we are meant to eat meat, and a high carbohydrate diet causes health problems including mental health issues. (please forgive me, those of you who are vegetarians! this is my belief and my experience…). I myself have experienced this. I was vegetarian for a time and had constant, low-level anxiety that just never went away. I have now gone to a high-meat, high-fat and low carbohydrate diet and the anxiety (and ease in taking offense) are GONE.

That is a long-winded way of saying that your daughter’s moods and behavior may be a direct result of her vegan diet. Which may be due to her BF’s influence on her. I don’t know what the answer is. I still have a vegetarian daughter and I’m very concerned about her health. I am not trying to force her to change her diet (that won’t work anyhow).

Regarding boundary setting, this is still a work in progress for me. What I am learning to do which works pretty well now, is I say something that I would like from the kids (ages 16 and near-18) and I try to do it very respectfully. I say, “look, you are 16 now, and so you’re not a little kid anymore, but you’re my kid and I love you and always will. I know you will learn as you go, just like I did, but I hope I can save you from some grief so you can learn your lessons less painfully. This will be your choice. But I will always love you, NO MATTER WHAT. However, I cannot allow you to infringe upon my rights or disrespect me (or whatever it is that you can’t allow). Or, I think it is very important for teenagers to spread their wings and become independent from their parents. However, this is a transition for BOTH of us. You need to explore and experiment, and I need to let you go but still be here to help if needed. And I love you and don’t want you to get hurt. I’m not going to stop you from going out because I CAN’T, but I’m going to let you know that it would be wise for you to be home by 10:30 p.m. BECAUSE…”

Etc. So far, this approach is working for me. I keep telling my kids over and over that I love them, that I want them to have happy lives, to become themselves, to not live their lives to please me — that I would be happiest if they become independent, set their own goals, go after them… and I can provide advice and assistance as I am able, but I think it is good for them to learn NOW to make healthy decisions, because there will come a point where I won’t be around to guide them… and they will need a strong inner compass.

I do insist on respect and kindness towards EVERYONE including themselves, and there is a lot of room for mistakes.

2B, I don’t know if any of that applies right now (or will at all). It seems like I’m going off on a tangent, but mostly I just know you are in a crisis right now and need to gather your self together. It is like you have been scattered in bits to the wind. So pull yourself BACK to yourself, and know that you have a lot more power than you realize. You really do. You are a very strong force in your children’s lives, you are a very loving mother, and I think you will find a way to step out of the way (like a bullfighter – ha!) when the barbs come aimed at you. Step aside, let it fly right by, then send a lot of love back at your daughter.

I sometimes think of this image, when people are lobbing mean stuff at me: Glinda in the Wizard of Oz, laughing merrily at the Wicked Witch of the West: “Begone! You have no power here!”

And “here” is YOU. YOU are are the place where no one has any power over you unless you let them. Don’t let ’em in. Reflect love back out into the world. (this is a very strong power)


Oxy.. I did contact a law enforcement officer who told me that I could have them bring her back home, but she will take off again and then if the neighbor harbors her again…she will be brought into court. But, then she may take off and “hide” somewhere or even do something dangerous. It would be a nightmare to bring her back into this house knowing the negative feelings and behavior she displays toward her sisters..and me! There would have to be a ‘plan’ and they don’t order psych evaluations anymore in these cases to ensure they stay home! He said that its a “catch 22” and sometimes these types claim “abuse” with outright lies and then CPS gets involved and many times they believe these kids.

I don’t have the energy to go through all of that. She IS a sociopath, and unredeemable. I know for a fact. Her father was a juvenile delinquent just like him.

So, legally, I am in fear of these consequences…to involve my other two in court..etc.

I don’t know what else to do. She cannot come back here…she will set us up and then real trouble will be started!


20….First of all, I SO appreciate your help today! THank You!!

Ok…She started displaying that she was “like her father” a confirmed and professionally diagnosed SOCIOPATH. HIS father was also. So, it is DEFINITELY in the DNA.

I saw that she was just like him, at a young age…laughed at people who got hurt…nervey…(climbed trees just like her father’s business!) ….lied,…..demanding like him….

BUT….I saw that she loved animals! Believe it or not, knowing that HE tortured animals and killed them at a young age…(found out after I married him)….I thought that she had his genes but with me being a loving a compassionate mother…(too loving)…that I altered them to raise a loving daughter.

WHen she was 12, she refused to go to school (like him) and so I went crazy and was losing MY job dragging her to doctors…so I pulled her out and “home schooled” her. I had no choice..I needed to support the family alone!

A neurologist said that she has PTSD from the divorce. She wouldn’t respond to therapy…”played them” and so I gave up.

She actually didn’t like school because she “had no friends”.

Lo and behold …a single mom and younger daughter bought the home behind me. She ran over there and won their hearts over.
She now had friends and wanted to go back to school for 8th grade. This woman works for a police dept for the chief and gets lots of ‘perks’ beaches, food, rides on the boardwalk..etc.

So, D latched on for the “free ride” and got closer to the 30 yr old mother than the daughter , her “friend” 2yrs younger. In fact, she expressed that she doesn’t really LIKE the D as much as the mother.

At this point, at 13, she started badgering me as a mother. I am 25 yrs older than this neighbor (mom). I was constantly told that I am not like her…she is better…goes more places..thinner…prettier….better at managing money(she has only one child and has her mom helping her…and perks from the chief, etc…)

I was very hurt when, that first mother’s day she didn’t even say Happy M day to me…but wanted money to BUY something for the neighbor mom!!!!! I remember crying my eyes out. She was sharp enough to say that she was really going to buy ME the gift!!!!! LIE….She begged me for money a week before and picked out something for her already!!!

Ok…so she meets a young boy from this crowd and he dumps her via text after 2 weeks because she invaded his privacy and went onto his Facebook and then started trouble with his x..

She “wanted to die”. She was a mess…wouldn’t eat…etc. It was a LONG haul to get her back. She started school again and then met the new b/f.

He was known to be “strange” by everyone in school…antisocial…rock band…barely got out of high school…

She took on HIS mannerisms, way of speaking…became vegan….stopped believing in God…hated her sisters because HE hated them. He reminds me of my socio x husband!!!! Walks, talks like him..omg.

At first, he saw my weakness…played on it…gave me the “pity ploy” ….”no food in my house…mother doesn’t love me…never gave me anything….no heat in the house…broken bedroom window…” etc…..

I felt sorry for him.

In the meantime…he practically moved in …slowly…

Finally, I saw what was happening…he was sneaking in at night…boldly sleeping with her in her bed…etc. I told him that I don’t want him here and either do my other girls…etc..

Since that day..he HATES me and is out to get me.

Then he lied and cheated and my D found out he had another girl over for 4 days. She became suicidal…long haul…took her out of school….in home therapy…etc.

She got him back…and he did it again…

Now, when she met him…she wanted to get rid of her dogs that she BEGGED me to buy her and cost a fortune. She never took care of them anyway…they pooped in my house…lots of arguments about that. She didn’t need her ‘supply’…her dogs anymore. She wanted to take them to the shelter!!!


She has ALL of the traits…

She wants to be an actress and is GOOD at it. (socios imitate people)

She has soft phony (cute) voice and knows how to play the PITY PLOY.

She is a BIG liar…..

She has more nerve than GOD…(can site a zillion examples of this)

She is DEVIOUS…..(highly intelligent)

She is COLD to the family and feels superior and has told me that she WANTS and NEEDS her own room, a car and IPHONE…or she is NOT coming home.

She has threatened to make me “lose ur girls” (her sisters) if I lose her…she will lie and call CPS…(framing me!)

She is a conniver!!! She is convincing..

She is selfish..(“UR girls don’t need phones..they are any social and have no friends….WHAT??????)

She puts on a phony act when with friends….(acts)

She needs attention..(acting)

She has NO empathy!!! (when her b/f was in Europe, she was cuddling the dogs again..eating with us…etc)

She is Jekyl and Hyde…..( One day said that her relationship was OVER with him….because he never takes her anywhere…is a liar and cheater…the next day ….he’s back!!!)

She has “fake” friends….A lot of people in school do NOT like her…say she is snobby.

She is SELFISH and needs to be center of every attraction!

So….IS she a sociopath? Therapist refuse to work with her…she laughs at them!!!!!


And…I think I need to get MY act together and get over the shock and anger before “I” die…which she would LOVE.

She was the one who broke into my car a week after she left. I realized what was missing ..HER iPod charger and plug!!!


I can’t believe that I married a monster and then raised one!!!!

I gave her SO much because I wanted her to work to her potential!!! She conned me every time!!! CRIED and cried until she convinced me to give her what she wanted.

Single mom guilt…I gave her everything I could.

I tried telling her I LOVE HER…she doesn’t even respond.
Turned her phone back on…asked to talk with her…gave her money…Monday…Tuesday she told me that I was a “disabled non functioning member of society who needs therapy”

ETC ….

I honestly wish she would go to Florida and live with her Sociopath father FOREVER>

I am NOT saying this out of anger…I am AFRAID of what she will do next..


2B, wow. That is serious business. I totally believe you.

The first thought that struck me… CAN she go live with her father?

From everything you write, yes, it sounds like it is HER and not any bad influence.

I know that there are folks who believe that with good parenting, a normal parent can overcome the sociopathic “genes.” I don’t believe it. (and yes, it is a BELIEF. There are those who believe you can, and those who believe you can’t — but it is not proof or fact — only belief).

I think people are born pretty much who they are, compassion-wise. I don’t think that can be taught. Though I think you can learn/be trained to put on a good act and behave, if the compassion part of you is broken (if you want to; if you can become convinced it is in YOUR best interest to pretend to be normal).

I am suspicious of people who “love animals” but not their fellow man.

I am so very sorry that you are facing this. I do not believe that you caused any of it.

Yes, talk to a lawyer if you have not already done so, and take whatever legal steps you can to protect yourself, including gathering and keeping any info (from therapists?) that supports your conclusion that your daughter is sociopathic. You may need it.

I have had negative experiences in court, so I am not a good person to offer any suggestions here, one way or the other. I have phobias about the legal system so I’m kind of down on it.

I guess… stop expecting any good behavior to come out of her, and if/when it does, do not trust it. I think from what you have written that she has a track history of not being trustworthy or truthful.

I’m honestly not sure what your legal options are, because it sounds like NC would be the healthiest option for you and your other children, and I don’t think the court system/child welfare system is really set up to handle sociopathic CHILDREN/TEENS.

I think the best thing you can do (apart from seeking legal advice) is to take care of and work on yourself and your own inner strength, steely resolve.

Also… don’t know your HOUSE situation, but could you take in a boarder or roommate, someone (an adult who would “get” the situation) to provide a buffer? I’m thinking of your other daughters, as well. If your one daughter depletes you too much, you will not have so much to give to them.

And… I don’t know if it would work in your situation, but to protect yourself are you able to put on a mask of “reasonableness” with your daughter (not wishy-washy doormat, but tough parent in charge) kind of like this, “I know you’d like to have sex with your BF. That’s fine with me, but he can’t sleep here. And he can’t have sex with you in front of your sisters. How would you like to make this happen, so that it works for the rest of us, too?” Or, “I know you’d like to have a car. I really am not in a position to buy you one. A lot of kids save up to buy them, and I encourage you to do that. I’m happy to drive you to your job in the meantime, but I can only do 3 nights a week.” Or, “I realize you want a car and I don’t blame you. However, I can’t afford to put you on my insurance, so unfortunately you will have to wait until you are 18 and you can get your own insurance. I wish the situation were different… but it is what it is.” Or, “I know you want an iPhone. They are very expensive. You may need to choose between saving for that and saving for a car. I wish I could get you that, but it is not in my budget. It’s not just the phone — it’s also the monthly plan. I am able and willing to put $20 a month towards it, but honestly that’s all I can manage.” Or, “I really wish you could have your own room, too. It’s really hard to share a room, especially for a teen. With the house that we have, can you figure out a way to make that happen?”

In all of that, I’m not implying that she is not a sociopath. Just that, you can act as though she is normal, and stick to your guns. No threats. No tears, no anguish, no emotions. You are making offers, telling her what you are willing to do and unwilling or unable to do. you can even give reasons. You can be sympathetic: “gee, i really wish… but I’m sorry, I can’t.”


20 yrs..

She is NOT living here right now. She left the home to “stay” with the neighbor and I was looking for her for 3 days..Finally the police found her in my backyard.
She asked me if she could stay there that night and I agreed.
Then I asked her to come home and she refused.
So,I told her that the police said that “I” am still responsible for her and that she MUST notify me ANY time she leaves the house there..(right behind me).

She has emailed me since, to tell me where she is staying…sometimes at her b/f’s , mostly she ‘says’ there.

So, she’s been there since Jan 28th. I reached out to her this past Monday and told her we need to speak and put her phone back on and sent her money.

She just TEXTED me AWFUL accusations again…threats…and so I shut the phone off less than 24 hrs later!

Last night my uncle told me he was coming down to buy her a car. As I mentioned above…I told him not to. She is irresponsible etc…

She said she wanted to come home ONLY under HER conditions. I told her NO…MY terms.

Now, tonite, when my uncle tells her he isn’t going to buy her the car…..she is going to FLIP.

I wonder whats next.
I HATE living this way…but I have to be prepared!!!

November can’t come quick enough…18!!!

I still need to get over this emotionally too.
Its just so shocking.



I am so sorry. I read every one of your posts. Even though I don’t have any advice, I sure feel for you and keep hoping this is going to turn out OK. I am struggling right now so it’s hard to help someone else when I can hardly take care of myself. I will pray for you right now.


I read your posts and they are so full of pain and I am SO Sorry for your pain. I write to be as simple and direct as possible.

You are in crisis. Your writings are clear about that. The pain you write is enormous. You are Reacting to that pain. We on LF are NOT counselors, we are Not professionals. We are other victims of LF on our own journeys to seek insight, healing, comraderie, understanding. We can share our experiences, we can write what we have done or suffered or chosen, we can share what we interpret from our own readings, and we can offer our OPINIONS, but we can not tell you what to do for the simple fact that we are NOT that kind of authority. And YOU NEED someone trained and has specific expertise to help you resolve to empower yourself.

PLEASE dear mother, get professional help. You need someone professional to guide you, so you make Conscious choices from a place of empowerment, Not from negative mindsets or from emotion and Not from reactions to emotional trauma.

I hope you seek the professional that you clearly need, someone who can put order to all your pain and help you create a plan that works for you and your family. We will be here to cheer you, encourage you, cry with you, be happy with you. But we simply can not be a substitute for what you need, a professional therapist.

Katy, who used we, but acknowledges that this is the same as all posts, just IMHO.


Katy, you are right. Thank you for that reminder to all of us!

Ox Drover

2B talking to a cop and talking to an ATTORNEY are NOT THE SAME THING….the point is NOT to bring her back to your house, but to find out WHAT you can do to let go of the “responsibility” for what she does so that in the event she gets in a car and drives it (without your permission) or STEALS a car…where is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY??? Can you get her emancipated? So that you have NO responsibility for her? What if she gets sick? Breaks a leg?

Burns down someone’s house? Where are YOU liable for her behavior because she is a minor and you are supposed to have control over her.

The cop told you what was right AS FAR AS HE KNOWS but he is NOT an attorney….and I agree with you, I think she is past redemption and at the very least is a controlling drama queen biatch, and I’m like you I would NOT want her in the house.


You are in crisis. In reading your post I fear you are at a breaking point. I “feel it” in reading the pain in your post and I have been there….At that same breaking point.

I read a few days ago that you have contacted an old counselor that you had been to see in the past. I am hoping this means that you have an appointment set up to see her because esentually this is what you need. Only a profesional can really help you get back on track at this point.

In the meantime the only thing that you can do to emotionally survive the days until you meet with the counselor is to try and seperate your emotions from what she is saying to hurt you.
The only way someone can push our buttons is if we ALLOW them to. Don’t take this so personally.
She is not in your home right now so you and your younger daughters are not in any danger of physical altercations. Arguments escalating out of control etc.

These “heated” discussions via text don’t have to continue. You can simply disengage and it is much easier to disengage from a text or phone call than it is from an angry teenager in your face that is out of control.

Keep in mind during this difficult period that you are POWERLESS to control what comes out of her mouth. If she sees that you are reacting to her calling her siblings “your children” instead of her sisters….Trust me, she will continue to do this. With all that is going on in your life right now this is the kind of stuff that you have got to NOT react to.

As a parent you can’t emotionally fall apart when your child says that they hate you or your a terrible mother or whatever is pouring out of their mouths. These are just words of anger. Words that sound more to me that they are coming more from a spoiled “princess” mouth. Not a sociopath. From a troubled teenage “entitelment” perspective.

As difficult as this might be to emotionally digest you need to save your ENERGY for the more important matters at hand.

And that energy will be needed to deal with her behavior that might or might not affect your other children and possibly cause liability for you.

You are in “reaction” mode right now. Try to go into action mode.

Disengage from her attacking words, call a lawyer, go to your counseling appointment.
These are the pro-active things you can do for yourself & your kids right now.

Being that she is OUT of the house at this time you want your younger kids to see less drama.
Remember they are living this experience to.


(((2b))), you have to disengage from the spin inside of your head. I know it looks like all of this is happening between you and your daughter, but it is not.

This is exactly how i was when i came to lf – how many of us sounded. It’s emotional and chemical. Do you have access to a vitamin store? Dessicated adrenals supplements will help replenish your adrenals and help you to stop spinning.

Step back from the drama, and don’t get involved with your other relatives in regards to your daughters life. you have to step back. i am repeating myself, but i know that is sometimes the only thing that works – we hear it enough ties, that we actually start to believe that not only is it an option, but THE option.

Please follow witty’s advice; it’s solid and she knows exactly what she is talking about.


Katy ~ Wonderful, thoughtful and caring post to 2B. I agree with you 100%.

2B – you need some professional help to guide both you and your daughter. Decisions and actions that come from the pain you are in right now are ones that you may regret later.

There are pediatric and adolescent psychiatrists that specialize in behavioral problems with teens. If you have any large teaching hospitals around you, they usually can make a referral. They deal with things like this every day. The first thing they will do is have your daughter get a complete medical exam, with all kinds of bloodwork, etc.

AND, you must see an attorney, you must find out where you stand legally. IF your daughter goes to CPS FIRST, then I can understand what the cop is saying. If you contact them, it may be entirely different.

I believe, in the eyes of the law, you have not even demanded she come home, so I think having her emancipated would be a difficult move.

Personally speaking now, my daughter is 32 years old, she will never change. I did everything to get help for her, everything. The list is too long and it really doesn’t matter, I did it. The counselling, the therapy, standing by her side, tough love – NOTHING helped.

BUT – I can sit here now and tell you I have no guilt, no regrets BECAUSE I did it all. Had I walked away at 16 – 17 -18 and given up, I don’t think I could say that.

Like Katy said, we will all be here to support, but right now you need some answers and a game plan from people who deal with this everyday.

Thoughts and ; prayers

Witty ~ we posted over each other, very well said.


Louise…Thank you. I am praying for you too…HUGS

Katy….I have an appt next week with the DV counselor that I saw a few years ago when I found LF. I AM being abused and harassed by my D.

Witsend…Thank you. I am NOT engaging in anymore conversations with her unless she sees me face to face.
My sister came down to see me today and I took a walk with her and vented. She cried, because she sees how shocked and hurt I am. Her daughter ran off at the same age with a boy. BUT, she did not demean her or threaten her as my D is doing.
She came back and went to therapy. MY D will “not talk to a stranger”. I’ve tried therapy 4 times with her. She “plays” them.
My D is NOT just a “typical teen”. NO WAY! She has a serious disorder. She is NOT redeemable. I am sure of that.

I was angry at first …then cooled off. Then I sent her the ‘carrot’ and tried. I found out that it won’t work to be nice to her . She saw it as “weakness” and just attacked me again. So, I am back to square one…angry and hurt. When I cool down THIS time…I am NOT reaching out to her again.

I am paranoid now, of what she will do next. I pump my brakes before I pull out of the driveway! I don’t put it past her to cut my brakelines! I am afraid to be home alone. I don’t TRUST her AT ALL. I am convinced that she would hurt me in some way if she could. Taking supply away from a sociopath is risky!!

I just want this all to go away….I am definitely going to start taking care of ME now so that I can thrive for my other daughters. Walking everyday…cleaning up my house more…and taking vitamins and long drives with Whitney Houston CD on! I just heard a noise in my house and I am alone and I am actually scared….ugh…

Anyway….I am going to call an attorney tomorrow. I was planning on today…but I slept all afternoon ..on and off. The uncle deal ..buying her a car…totally threw me off.

Onejoy…Thank you . Going to buy those vitamins tomorrow.
Thank you for the support and advice.

I know that I have to find ways to live my life without fear of what she will do next….otherwise I will fall fast into a depression and anxiety and won’t be able to function.

THanks to all today for the support.


Thanks Milo…

I DID demand that she come home. The night the police came, I told her she could stay at the neighbors for the night. After that I demanded she return home. She wouldn’t come home. Two days later, I made the offer to have MY bedroom…didn’t work.

Then she started harassing me. I wrote her a letter. She refused to come home so I sent her a letter saying that I need to know where she is ANY time she leaves that house.

She complied. I reached out to her this past Monday and she blasted me again!

I know they won’t emancipate her if she has no job or a way to support herself and she is almost 18.

I just don’t want her to have a car. She is irresponsible and has proven this when I loaned her MY car.

I am just going to speak to an attorney tomorrow. And I have an appt for counseling for me, next week.

She won’t respond to therapists.

She has a serious problem. She is an incorrigable juvenile delinquent. And she has no heart.

Thanks for your support.


2B – I know you tried to get her home. I’m sorry, I meant that I thought there are a lot of conditions that must be met before you can emancipate a child.

I understand about “playing” therapists and not responding. There is a big difference between therapists and Child and Adolescent Psychiatrists though. First and foremost, complete evals. These people are very aware of the “games” these kids can play.

Oh, and NO, I wouldn’t let my daughter have a car either, you are 100% right.

I’m glad you got to talk to your sister, you need all the support you can get right now. I’m also glad you have an appointment with a therapist and the attorney.

I do understand and I am sorry, my heart goes out to you.

Ox Drover


Good going, 2B, a therapist can’t fix the problem, but they can help you see your options.

MiLo, Witty, and I imagine several others here have been under the same situation you are in now, with an out of control teenager, and our own heads in the “spin cycle”—what do I do? If I could only just open up their head and pour in some love and some advice and they wouldn’t fark up their entire future! Yep, been there.

Fortunately, your other two daughters are not like the “princess” and I hope you and they will pull together as you go through this drama rama…give them a big hug and tell them you love them and that there is this fat old woman in Arkansas who is praying for them. (((Hugs)))


Awww…You made me tear up Oxy….

I would love to meet you someday! not even kidding. I always said that when I win the lottery, I will send everyone on LF a plane ticket to meet in the Bahamas …on ME! I promise.
A common life experience brought us here. I feel a bond with all of you….and Oxy is like “mother hen” here. lol! I say that with love!!!!

Ox….Her photo on Facebook has a light next to her head and there is a “figure” to her right! Everyone sees it…its an old man with white hair. His eyes are clear and face is pretty clear. OMG…its creepy!! Demonlike!!!!

I am going to pray for her…thank you Ox…HUGS

Ox Drover


You are not alone in this. I remember when Patrick was arrested for murder, I didn’t sleep for 7 days—not one wink–I walked the floor and screamed and cried…I didn’t eat for nearly 2 weeks, just coffee and water. I wouldn’t answer the phone or the door. I just screamed and cried. My world was lost. My son was lost.

Even though I lived in a house with people who loved me, there was no one there who understood my grief, my pain! I was so ALONE.

A friend of mine was director of nurses at a psych hospital and she kept calling me and wanting me to come to work for her there….I went to work there finally and it was the BEST THERAPY for ME that I ever had. I met parents whose kids were worse than mine! I knew their grief. Their pain.

You will get through this 2B…and you have more awareness now than I did, you already realize how enabling you have been to her. I didn’t realize how enabling I was being (even still) to patrick. It took me DECADES to get it, to get as far as you are already. So hang in there. (((hugs)))


I’m so sorry for what you’re going through.
It’s times like this when we have to be a little bit spathy ourselves. We have to learn to compartmentalize – like spaths do.

Half of you wants to maintain compassion and the other half knows you have to protect yourself. It’s ok to do both at the same time. You might want to get security cameras for when she walks in the house to get her things. Hidden ones as well as overt ones. It’s your right to maintain security for yourself.

Whether she is a spath or not, she is at least a selfish narcissist and that makes her dangerous because she has no limits.

BTW, my spath loved cats since he was a little boy. He played with feral cats. But I also know that he killed my cats. It’s because “love” to them is shallow and meaningless. It’s about how they can use you toward their own gain.

The best protection against a spath/N are the records you keep, because they lie. If you keep records of her texts and her messages, it might come in handy. If you keep video surveillance, it might help too.

I hope that she isn’t a spath and that your love for her will prevail. But just in case, do what you can to protect yourself – compartmentalize. ((hugs))


I don’t have much to say. Just dropping in to show my support. I like Sky’s idea of compartmentalizing. When you are dealing with spathy people, it helps to get in touch with your inner spath. I believe we all have one in there somewhere.

Dealing with a lot myself right now, but I do read and I’m following your situation. I wish you peace in the midst of all of this.


Thanks Ox, Sky and Star.

Last night after I wrote these posts….I got an email from the D…titled…”Apology”.

She finally called me “mom”…(not capitalized) and said that she was sorry that she said what she said…she doesn’t hate her family..didn’t mean to upset me….and the last line…”I don’t mean to harm you in any way”. (THAT hit me wrong)

I was stunned. Evidently the uncle told her “no car” until you go back to your family and treat them with respect.

I don’t think she is sincere…its a ploy.

I didn’t answer the email. I don’t plan to say anything.

She told me how she feels. Thats it.

I fell asleep after reading it…drained,exhausted, crazy dreams…

What would you suggest I do?


2b – i would suggest you block her emails. get off the wheel. you called her behavior correctly – manipulation. WORDS MEAN NOTHING. she wants a car. i don’t think her uncles advice is helpful to your family as he doesn’t know what she’s all about.

so, what do we do with pity ploys? we ignore them. we move on with the things that are healthy and healing to our families. she has demonstrated her sense of narcissistic injury and her self centredness both. Focus on one good thing today 2b. do something positive to take care of yourself and your other kids.


Thanks One/joy..

I did NOT respond to her email. I even called that shot. I told my sister that when she finds out she isn’t getting the uncle to cater to her needs…she will try to work on me and use the pity ploy to take her back into my life.
I was right. (I can predict socio behavior by now!)

I cannot stop her from coming home. Legally she can walk right in and say “I’m home”. Until she is 18, I have to let her back. That sucks. And, she WILL come back. She is nervy.

I can’t block the emails because she was instructed to notify me where she is at all times because I am responsible for her.

BUT, I don’t have to respond. So I didn’t.

I am happy they called me in today for a half day to sub at a grammar school. The little ones always cheer me up.

If she does walk in and wants to move back its going to be a very difficult thing. Her sisters are very hurt and angry and rightfully so. I already sold her full size bed because I planned to get her a twin to fit into her sister’s room. I cannot put her in with either of the girls after the damage she’s done. All I can do is give her the sofa in the living room, or let her sleep in my room…which I DON’T want. I don’t trust her. I watch too many “ID” shows where kids like her come back and poison their parents and kill them. I know thats farfetched, but I don’t put anything past her.

She NEEDS me now. But, she burned so many bridges with her words. I am going to have to set up a plan…that we need to meet with a therapist. There is such a long wait here though.

What a mess she created!

sharing the journey

Star and 2B

My thoughts and prayers are with you both.

Take care


Thanks, Sharing.

Just spoke to my uncle. She told him she NEEDS the car for college courses she is taking 20mins from here. LIE.
She told him her b/f,who lives a mile from here…is moving 45 miles from here for a job offer.
So NOW she wants the car to run to see him, since he wouldn’t even pick her up HERE a mile away. I used to drive her to his house and pick her up!

YES, its all a PLOY. Get in good with Mom again…so she lets the uncle buy her the car to go see b/f.


She is some schemer!!

I am two steps ahead of her.


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