By | August 11, 2010 78 Comments

Murderer spared the death penalty, says ‘I won’

John Wade Adams and an accomplice were convicted of killing Donna Vick in her Texas home back in 1997. Both men originally received the death penalty, and the accomplice was executed in 2008.

Adams, however, was granted a new sentencing trial. When the jury could not agree on the death penalty, the judge declared a mistrial.

Adams leaned back in his chair and said to the victim’s family, “I won.”

Read DeSoto woman’s killer spared death tells victim’s family: ‘I won’ on The comments after the story are interesting as well.

Link supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Laws and courts

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Ox Drover

This is so “TYPICAL” in my experience of criminal psychopathic inmates—he believes he “WON” by only getting life without parole for the murder. My psychopathic son also believes he is a “winner” and is so arrogant that he believes he knows everything about everything, though he has spent his entire adult life in prison. He feels like a “winner.” DUH?

How can someone who is the ULTIMATE LOSER feel like a winner in life?

Not only did Adams feel like he “won”—he wanted to cause more pain to his victim’s family by rubbing their noses in it.

While I no longer support the death penalty because I do not believe our “justice” system is either fair, impartial or just, none-the-less, I do believe in “life without parole” for all 3 X felony convicted criminals, I DO believe in MAXIMUM custody for people convicted of violent crimes–the recent escape from an Arizona medium security prison of three violent criminals, who while on the loose this time have kidnapped, stolen, and killed two additional victims—-this should never have happened! It COULD have been prevented if those inmates were on MAXIMUM SECURITY.

Part of the problem with prisons today is technology–cell phones inside prisons brought in by guards for cash, allow coordination of crime gangs outside by inmates, as well as escape attempts. The feds just FINALLY passed a law making cell phones a FELONY to those inside who have them, and those who bring them in. Jamming and disabling them is quite possible with technology currently available, and one group of prisons now has DOGS trained to sniff out CELL PHONES—yep, I saw a demo on GMA the other day. Amazing those canines!!!!

Until the justice system learns about psychopaths and how to treat them for the safety of society our prison system will continue to be a joke.


I believe in the death penalty for those that are convicted by concrete eyewitnesses (who aren’t bought and paid for or have a hidden agenda) or the murderer themselves admit to the abominable deed of taking another’s life. Beyond any doubt, DNA evidence is provided (signed, sealed and delivered). I’m also sick of jurors being picked for a murder trial and never were victimized in their lives. Give me a break with these bleeding hearts in society that lawyers love to stick on these cases. Have the balls to choose any one of us that blog on LF, and I’ll show you people who understand why stiff and just sentences should be carried out … and we won’t be swayed by the lies, lies, lies of the defendant or the lying lips of IT’S lawyer(s).

Oxy, what do you expect a bag of bones to say? He, like so many in society are spiritually dead! No life, no love, no compassion, no mercy flowing through their veins. Just ice water. He chose that life. He, and he alone is responsible for the outcome of where he sits and rots today.

I also believe that executions should be broad casted. Live. For everyone to see. Then and only then will the bag of dusty bones, spiritual dead stop killing innocent folks in society because they need to get to the ultimate thrill to feel for a few seconds. Seeing executions on TV will curtail a lot of their fantasies and pull them back into reality … you want to play, we’ll have you pay with your life.

Last, but not least on this issue … I believe that murderers should be put to death the EXACT same way their victim(s) met their death. Period. No, ifs, ands, or buts …

Frank Lee Speaking

I am against the death penalty as the poor and innocent get it more than the rich. But shouting “I won!” is some insight into the minds of these things.


Frank Lee, do you know what the percentage is of innocent people making it to the death phase? If so. Are those percentages correct?

Frank Lee Speaking

Wini, I do not want to get into a debate about the death penalty for lots of reasons. But I will say this. Unless the reports are lies from what I gather poor African-Americans are more likely to get the death penalty than any other group. From what I also gather wealthy people rarely get the death penalty for the same crimes.

One innocent person getting the death penalty is not worth a million brutal killers getting the same. It just isn’t. That why the Death Penalty is a bad idea because there is always a chance, no matter how tiny of a innocent person getting it.


Frank Lee, I comprehend the fact that there were numerous prejudices over the years … innocent people forced to take a guilty person’s place behind bars due to the big egos of those holding office … purposely railroading innocent folks so the lives of the office holders can go back to their smooth lifestyles prior to an upcoming election.

I’m not referring to these folks at all whose cases have a zillion flaws that don’t make sense to even a 5th grader. I’m referring to the absolutes (e.g. the DC sniper who was just executed this year) that are on death row. The Ted Bundy’s, Scott Peterson’s of the world that are dead knock GUILTY and the DNA and other evidence proves this beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The reason we have so many horrific murders in our country today is because most states did away with the death penalty and these monsters know they’ll have an easy time when they get into the system. Whether it’s for 20-40 years or life. They have a “who cares” attitude because they know they just get a slap on the wrist, plus, their egos assumed naturally that they were smarter than all others and would get away with their decision to murder the innocent person because they were an inconvenience and cramped their lifestyle.

I know first hand what it feels like to be railroaded with trumped up charges. I’m lucky that my bosses and I didn’t work for the penal system … because my psycho bosses would have locked me up without a trial and thrown away the key.

Which reminds me … who does psychological evaluations on those in charge of the criminal investigation? Those that come on the stand as “expert witnesses”? Those running for office that year? I’ve never heard of any murder case were those elements were included! They look back in 20/20 hindsight and see all the shenanigans that went on behind the scenes to railroad innocent folks.

Dani S

I agree as mad I feel and how much I hate these psycho’s I do not believe in the death penalty……. many innocent people have been sent to Jail for crimes they have not commited….
Lindy Chamberland in Australia was convicted of killing her baby daughter when there were many witnesses to the baby being dragged off by a Dingo at Ayers Rock! Through inexperienced police and an apparent conspiracy as the Northern Territory Government didn’t want to loose tourism to the area.

Azaria Chamberland had not been the first infant taken it had happened unreported in Aboriginal Communities many times and only 3 weeks before Azaria was taken a 2 year old girl was dragged from her car in the same area. The parents at the time of Azaria being taken reported to the Police that there child had been dragged from the car and the Police would not let them make an official report.

To have lost your child in such a horrible way and then to be convicted of her murder is shocking. She was later exonerated when Azaria’s clothing was found years later. Imagine going to death under those circumstances….

Oxy it is just bazaar how they think they are “Winners”! Goes to show how mental they are!

Dani S

Wini we don’t have the death penalty here and I don’t think it makes us a more killing country for it! I believe we have very low stats for a country that has no death penalty.

And I don’t even think that it is because we are disarmed either.
A psycho will kill regardless of punishment!


Dani S, and that psycho that kills should get the death penalty! Why should we support a murdering psychopath …with life in prison? Why is our country supporting Scott Peterson or the Menendez brothers or an entire slew of folks that are proven to be psychopaths that planned the execution of an innocent person(s). I’m referring to pre-meditated murder. Not any of the other degrees of murder.

Ox Drover

Well, the remaining murderer that escaped from Arizona has just been definitely spotted in a robbery here in Arkansas along with his girlfriend who has relatives and used to live in NW Arkansas.

This man is a murderer, and killed 2 more since he escaped. How many more he will kill? There is NO excuse for a murderer being housed in MEDIUM SECURITY—they should be in maximum security, and NEVER LET OUT.

This man’s MOTHER enabled him to escape, and she has been arrested (along with another female relative) for helping him plan and execute the escape. She is JUST AS GUILTY AS HE IS of the murders he committed after his escape. It makes my blood boil! THERE BUT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD GO I.

Right now in Arkansas there is at least ONE innocent person on death row and 2 more in prison for 17 years for a crime that DNA says they didn’t commit. How about that young boy that J. Reid Meloy PhD (Piled HIGHER AND DEEPER) helped send to prison for 10 years for a crime he wasn’t guilty of and the detective LIED AT LEAST 9 TIMES ON THE STAND to convict that young man. The 10 million bucks they gave him when DNA finally proved him innocent isn’t enough to pay him for what he suffered. What if he had been executed?

I used to be a FIRM death penalty advocate for absolutely known killers, but there are too many railroaded into the death house. Not, I think because they are poor, or black, or male, but because our “justice” system is IN-JUST. It is all about politics and posturing for the media rather than “solving” a crime.

My son committed premeditated murder, a revenge murder, and he should have been executed, because there was NO doubt he did it. Yet he has been at times kept in MINIMUM SECURITY and has been caught with a cell phone, and a knife—he is not repentent. Keep me in your prayers that he will never be released and will stay in MAXIMUM SECURITY forever. I would not put it past him to escape, or try at least, and he is smart enough he might pull it off—especially if my egg donor is able to give him enough money to hire outside help.

This creep that believes he “won” by escaping the death penalty doesn’t even have sense enough to realize what a piece of scum he is. I hope he grows old and dies in prison which is what he deserves. God give peace to the victim’s family.


Funny you should write this…..Kids and i were at Sushi today for lunch. (BTW jr got his license).
These two guys walked in that looked just like the escapee’s.
And they sat right across from me. I was looking at them the WHOLE time….until jr asked me what I was looking at… he cute mom??? I told him, and he pulled up the dudes on his Ipod, and we spent the rest of the lunch checking these guys out…..decided that the eyebrows were not ‘sharp’ enough…..then saw one had been captured.
The sushi guy asked me about what I was looking at and Jr showed him the pics online……he agreed it was uncanny.
Good thing I didn’t call the cops….HA! They were in Ark!



Oxy, the flip side to the mom and GF is they are probably believing every word he says. Now they’re criminals for believing and trusting in a pathological liar. Both will be be brought through the system for acting on his lies.

Just another case we have to sit back and watch to see what the mom and GF say on the stand. Guilty or naive … they are still screwed and tattooed.

The media needs to build on how these 2 women threw their lives away aiding and abetting a liar and a murderer and I do believe they are guilty of accessory to murder too.

Dani S

Realistically Wini the problem is who is going to make the judgement on who is 100% guilty of a crime?

The courts obviously cant, because it has not worked 100% of the time in the past!

The Psycho’s can waste away there lives in maximum security prison’s then rot in hell!

Death is too good of an option for them! Why should they be free of there crime, they should live it every day for the rest of there lives in hard prisons and hopefully eventually a bigger and better psycho stabs them to death in Prison, which happens and that way they will feel a shocking murder.

Martin Bryant has basically been in solitary confinement for the over 10 years because of frequent attacks by other prisoner and Carl Williams one of Australia’s biggest Gangsters in recent years only spent a couple of years in Jail before being bashed to death by another prisoner earlier this year.
Let them live amongst the other Psycho’s I say!

Dani S

Good story EB! 🙂


Dani S, what if there is a prison break (they do happen) … and murderers are among those that break out. They’re running here and there because their get away vehicle broke down or the person back out from picking them up. Long dragged out story short … they are able to kill again because, hey, what the heck, when they get picked up they’re just doing time again.

Point is. We all have choices to make in life. These anti-socials choose to be anti-social. I don’t believe their is a missing gene in any of them (just because medical staff want millions of dollars in grant money to prove what? NOTHING! … but thanks for the career and big paychecks) … that makes them do what they do. It’s years of bad behavior, getting away with the bad behavior year after year … the lying and deception got them what they wanted with the least resistance …

I remember reading a blog about an execution that took place a few months back. One of the bloggers said it best “he/she is a defective part, send them back to the manufacturer”. I’d say that is calling it a day.

Remember what the folks we write about did to us. Now amplify their bad behaviors and add murdering the body instead of murdering our dreams and souls. These are the types of personalities we are blogging about. Their bad anti-social behaviors are ingrained in them. Never to change because our society is making it easy for them to do what they do. Hey, a slap on the wrist … getting a couple of years for taking someone for what they worked for … God forbid, escalating it to taking a person’s life!

Our courts need to start handing out extreme sentences for any type of anti-social behavior. Our courts are suppose to keep law abiding citizens free from harm. Not doing what crooked politicians want them to do, cause God forbid, if they ever get caught doing some of the evil stuff they do, they certainly don’t want to do prison time. Our laws are no longer for the citizens, it’s a safety net for the crooked politicians. I hate to come to this conclusion … saw it where I worked. My bosses should be in prison for what they did to me. So should my EX. PRISON. PERIOD.


Dani S

Wini we will have to agree to disagree, I appreciate your opinion and I don’t for one second forget my spath’s beatings, emotional, verbal and physical abuse that I write about here on LF and what he has done to me.. I still cry years later at those memories…..

I believe you are a Christian women, so how can you say murdering ones life even if it is a spath is different from them murdering? and being Christian don’t they meet there maker in the end for there final judgement?

Don’t for a second think I believe that a psycho should have any leniencies, I just truly don’t believe in any one taking anyone’s life! It maybe expectable where you are but definitely not here and that will never change here thank god!

If you look at the statistics in this country at prisoner’s escaping and murdering whilst on the run is next to nil!


I am not completely opposed to the death penalty (hoping that innocent prisoners aren’t executed). When the criminal is a cold-blooded killer who will never have remorse for his crime(s) and rehabilitation is not possible, take them to the injection site (back in the old days, the electric chair).

Ox Drover

I think we can agree to disagree on the death penalty, but we can all agree that prosecution and conviction of people on trial is NOT 100% right….therefore, there ARE some innocent people in jail, and some guilty people go free.

Here is a statistic for you:

Eyewitness testimony in which later DNA evidence proves the person identified and convicted is INNOCENT….most of the time the real guilty party goes on to commit more murders while the innocent party is in prison. AND, tests of “eye witness” identification shows that it is ONLY 40% right. Eye witness testimony is the WORST KIND of evidence there is. There have been many many studies done of this all proving that from 40-60% of eye witness testimony is WRONG. DUH, and yet that is the thing that most people give 100% validity to. Most juries believe it is 100% right.

Even the witnesses may be convinced they are right but unfortunately that is not valid unless the witness already was familiar with the criminal or knew him/her. THEN eye witness is pretty good evidence.

Escapes from prison or custody are actually quite RARE in this country, and most times are lower level escapees, not so dangerous. However, this latest escape of 3 violent criminals from A private FOR PROFIT MEDIUM SECURITY prison in Arizona is one of those rare escapes. The one man still on the run—they thought they had him spotted in Arkansas yesterday where his girl friend used to live in Gentry, AR, but turned out it most likely wasn’t him….is a very dangerous man, and two new murders have been committed by this man and one of the other escapees.

Obviously the prison system allowed these 3 individuals too much freedom for them to accomplish this escape. They should have been in MAXIMUM SECURITY IN A MAXIMUM INSTITUTION. My Son, who is a murderer in cold blood has frequently been on minimum security in a medium security prison in texas. I would not be surprised at all if he made an escape attempt, possibly even a successful one.

These people are armed and very dangerous. I just wonder how many others they will kill before they are captured.


I believe the Christian thing to do would be to show mercy such as the case of the adulteress being brought to Jesus. Also when he, (Jesus) was arrested Peter cut the ear off of one person whom Jesus healed. Paul who wrote many books of the Bible, put in prison/ had tortured and executed Christians previously even being present at the stoning of Stephen. It is very hard to not want to take justice in your own hand, but then we would be acting as God if we thought we were 100% right in doing so. And sentencing in the “justice” system is so arbitrary with many people being given less of a sentence than others because of pleas, while others get maximum time for stealing bread or smoking pot. But this person who proclaims I won a life sentence in prison is mistaken. He has won crap and likes it.

Ox Drover

Okay guys, here is an interesting article about two men who were both accused and convicted for setting house fires that killed their children. One already executed (claimed he was innocent) and the other one still on death row.

Texas, which killed the one man in 2004 is reinvestigating the crime and there is strong evidence now that he WAS INNOCENT.

Now, how bad is that? The man loses his children in a fire (remember I lost my husband in a fire and my son D was badly burned, and 2 friends horribly burned) and now he is CONVICTED of setting the fire, AND then executed for it. WHAT COULD BE WORSE?

Personally I can’t think of anything worse than me being arrested and charged and convicted of setting the fire that killed my husband, then sent to death row. So this is WHY I no longer support the death penalty. It would have been bad enough to be sent to prison for a crime I didn’t commit, but to have my life taken as well, so that there was NO hope I could be released by new evidence. (head shaking here)

There are almost 2 million people in prison now, if only 1/2 of one percent are actually innocent (and I think the number is probably MUCH higher) 1% of this number of people convicted would be 20,000 innocent inmates, and even !/2 of one percent would be 10,000 innocent people in prison.

One of those innocent people could be you, or your child, or your parents, or your friend….or spouse…think about it, and imagine what it would feel like if they were on death row. Sobering thoughts.


Dani S. I think society has been conditioned by all the evil predators who ensure that Jesus’ truth is kept from the masses (e.g. all the false preachers in the world pretending they are teaching Jesus truth but behind the scenes are filling everyone’s minds with man made baloney not to hear His complete TRUTH. Just bits and pieces, taken out of context.

We have been conditioned for many years now … called Political Correctness CRAP to look the other way when violated. To the point, the majority of the public doesn’t know what is truth and what is a lie anymore. Remember, predators come in all shapes and sizes, all colors, all nationalities, both sexes and get to the top no matter how they get there. Don’t ever say this or that person is a lying cheat because they are fat, skinny, old, young, one color or another, tall, short, this nationality or that. Oh, you just don’t like this person because they are short. They are old. They are a woman. They are a man. You have to love everyone … and if you don’t, we’ll pigeon hole you as a bigot. We will never admit that you hit the nail on the head that the person is a lying, thieving, cheat! We will convince you with smoke screens not to look behind that curtain and see that we are yanking your strings.

False preachers who purposely or out of ignorance haven taken Jesus’ truth out of context and have insisted over the years that we love everyone (aka Love our neighbors as we love ourselves). That is the biggest lie perpetrated on society. Jesus told us to love our neighbours. His truth if you read and comprehend his wisdom from the Bible … is to love our neighbours who love him. Our neighbors means to love others who live righteously by following His truth. That’s our neighbours. Not those that follow Satan. These selfish swines are no one’s neighbours.

For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:9


Oxy, remember they falsely accused Jesus …

Now the chief priests, and elders, and all the council, sought false witness against Jesus, to put him to death;

Matthew 26:59

Dani S

As you quoted Wini “Thou shalt not kill” ! no one has the right to take another peron’s life…….. very grey area to me on who is allowed to kill who!

I don’t need to be religious or read the bible to know this!


Dani S, since you don’t read the Bible, you wouldn’t know to check the Strong’s concordance with regards to the definition of the word kill. Kill refers to pre-meditated murder.

“thou shalt not kill.” (Exodus 20:13)

“You shall not murder.” (Exodus 20:13)

Scriptures states not all killing is murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of a human life.

Dani S

With due respect Wini, I do not choose to get into a debate about religion with you or anyone…….

And you will not change my way of thinking by throwing scriptures at me!

If 1 innocent person is saved by not be executed, I am happy!


Dani S, you mentioned the scripture Exodus 20:13. I’m not throwing anything at you. I was explaining what the word “KILL” meant because you wrote it to me.

Besides, there is a small percentage of innocent people incarcerated versus actual offenders … those working in the field of law are reviewing said incarcerations. Remember, anti-socials lie any time they open their mouths.

There’s an old saying in the courts … “All guilty parties claim to be innocent”.


Jesus said He was the son of God….the elders, chief priests and all the council thought he was a danger and “lawfully” took his life….lawfully according to who at any given time…all wrong doers are convinced they are right and all do gooders think all they do is good..Jesus died for us, to show us that out of bad comes great good (The Ressurection) , and out of good can come great bad…(the justice system of the time thought they were doing good) without Jesus..without death no eternal life…both good and evil are therefore shifting sands and two sides of the same coin…and they now have discovered with quantum science…the whole coin isn’t real…it’s vibrations!! arrrgh
Wini…what’s the truth anymore?

Dani S

shesh wini if I wanted to read about the bible I would go to church not LF!

Good bye LF! 🙂 Thanks to the many of you that have been truly amazing! x


Dani S, then don’t write me. I don’t mind what you have to say. If I didn’t want to respond to you … I’d simply skip over your post.

Sorry you have a problem with freedom of speech if it’s not to your liking.



A few things. Your comment about handing out more strict punishments for any kind of antisocial behavior is just goofy. We already keep adding more and more laws and as a result we now lock up more people (in the “home of the free) than anyone else. And its not a deterrent. AND in the good ole days they had the death penalty for many offenses and crime still continued.

Now for the comment you will probably dislike a lot. I hope you do not intend to go to seminary ever because if you were there now you would be getting an F for your lack of knowledge, misunderstanding, and lack of knowledge of history. I have to agree with Dani and a few others in that I avoid LF a lot more than I used to because the self-righteous prattle gets really old. Its one thing to say god bless or offer a brief scripture to help someone but what you do is much different.


Wini- do you ming rewriting what you wrote on here. I can’t see it. My computer won’t allow me too.


HurtNoMore, here is my response …

Ask your Dad if you can have a conversation with him and tell him that your experiences are uniquely yours, not his or anyone else. That you have the right to set boundaries and associate with people that are NOT going to be TOXIC to your well being. If he refuses to comprehend your wishes, tell him that the two of you think differently on this particular issue.

That’s a nice way of telling him that it’s your life, this is how you feel and if he or anyone doesn’t like that you do NOT want toxic people around in your space ” then sorry, it’s too bad that they don’t get it, but you do.



Wini- I just feel that my family labels me and that they don’t know a thing or two about me. They just called me a crybaby today. I’m sorry that I’m a sensitive person and that I love to help other people. Their whole idea about a strong woman is someone who can curse back at you when you insult them. Someone who can insult you back and fight you back. My idea of a strong woman is someone who knows that they are in a bad situation and can get their way out. Someone, who when the going gets tough can really keep it together. So to them I’m weak and extra sensitive. But to me I’m strong woman that can push through tough times. Nobody says to be tearless. You can cry but snap out of it and get it together. That’s how I feel and if they don’t agree then that’s their issue. I hope I’m right in what I say.


HurtNoMore, you know who you want and don’t want in your life. You’re doing just fine with your boundaries and figuring out TOXIC folks in your life.

As far as family goes, they probably just say what they say to you because they do not want to see you hurt or they don’t like knowing that another gave you so much pain. That’s my best guess on why they do what they do.

Just remember, you only have one life to live and you are the only one that can live it. No one is ever going to know everything about you, except you.

Peace to your heart and soul while you go through the processing of healing.


Wini- I don’t appreciate my own blood talking about me behind my back. As if I’m some troubled child. Puhlease. My little sister is afraid of her own boyfriend because he has a gun. So every little thing he says she obeys. She’s afraid of my mom so she kisses her behind so hard. She pretends with her so badly and my mother doesn’t see it at all. Everybody else can tell that something is definitely wrong with my little sister but my mother. I’m just completely different from them so it bothers them.


HurtNoMore, you just answered your own question. Some people never want to change (aka evolve) to listen and comprehend anothers’ point of view. To feel safe, they like when others think like them, act like them, talk like them, feel like them etc. It all revolves around them and staying the same as they always new life to be.

As for your sister, you really should tell her about this site so that she too can break free of her toxic relationship with her boyfriend and comprehend what the dynamics are with your mother.

You do have hutzpah, I have to give you that credit (SMILE).

You will notice that a lot of people will try to manipulate (force their will on … ) you when you start making changes for what is good for you in your life. People like the status quo. If you change, it forces them to have to change to keep up with you. That’s OK. Growth is good for you … and them also … except they didn’t make the changes, you did.



Wini- I mean its to the point where if we get into trouble, she will suck up to my mom so badly. I just sit back and laugh because I know that people will be upset with you. That’s just how relationships are. She thinks this site is all opinion operated and that there’s evidence of sociopaths in any of the writings. My sister is the biggest suck up ever. If my mom goes on and on about how she can’t find her slippers, I will help look and that’s it. My little sister will help look and then go rub her feet and then tell her how pretty her hair is over and over. My mom doesn’t seem to see that something is definitely wrong with her behavior. She thinks I’m the problem child because I’m a sensitive person. My little sister is the strong one and the one who is tough. Everybody knows its a cover up. Even people outside my own family know and they tell me all the time. ” Hurt, something isn’t right with your sister.” Its just sad that my mother won’t help her grow a backbone in her. Just think everything is fine.


HurtNoMore, your sister is manipulating your Mom to get her own way in the family. If she “sucks up” to your Mom. She wins. You loose because you don’t “suck up”.

You are your own person. You are being true to yourself. Your sister is a game player, playing the game any way she can so she gets her way in life.

Sometimes those that seem insecure, aren’t really insecure at all. That’s the MASK that your sister wears to manipulate your mother and get what she wants, when she wants.

It rubs you the wrong way and you can’t quit put your finger on it because your sister doesn’t want you to unmask her deceptive ways. Your sister is keeping everyone off guard so they don’t know she’s pulling the strings in your family.

Just put a big smile on your face when dealing with them. You can’t change them and you certainly don’t want to admit to them that you figured their “DANCE of the manipulators” out.

Just take big breaths … breath in, breath out.


Bulletproof: Unfortunately I can’t see your post. My computer won’t let me view it for some reason.
Wini- I noticed that she’s manipulative. I also noticed that she agrees with everything she says.


HurtNoMore, I know most folks that manipulate always hide behind a mask and concentrate on what they can do to get their way by using others. I also know that there are folks like us that never think about manipulating another, never mind actually doing so. Their ways are as foreign to us as our ways are foreign to them.

I’m sure your sister isn’t as afraid (that’s putting it lightly)as she leads others to believe. I think her playing the victim role is a well oiled act that she’s been perfecting all her life. It throws others off guard and prevents another to calling her on her bad behavior/actions. It’s the playing a victim part that instills FRAGILE person here in the minds of others … do not touch or you can’t break her (boo-hoo) … baloney. She’s got this routine down to a science … all ready to roar her ugly head if anyone comes close to suspecting it’s all an act and heaven forbid, unmask her.

You can do as I did. Don’t say a word to her for the next 30 years (have major headaches over it), then finally have your fill of her nonsense and call her on her ridiculous act. She, like my sister, will no longer have anything to do with you and you’ll find she disowned you (LOL). That’s the small favor you can hope for.


Wini- Its pretty sad and quite frankly I’m tired of it. I mean she plays both parents. But parents just totally treat me like I need attention to survive. So if they ignore me, my whole world is going to crash down. But I’m starting not to care if they ignore me. My dad, I believe, is afraid of her. But with me he treats me horribly. He could careless if he humiliates me and isolates me in front of people. His sociopathic behavior is pathetic.


HurtNoMore, I’ll tell you a true situation that my parents ran by me in the 80s. Long story short, my sister-in-law and I were discussing what we were going to do one summer. The conversation transpired on the eve before Christmas at her home. Of course, family and friends that were over for her gathering could hear our conversation. One being my middle sister who happened to call me up the night after the party to ask if she could be included in going to the cottage at the beach. Of course, I agreed that we should all be at the cottage on the same time schedule that summer.

When it came down to weeks prior to going on vacation, my sister-in-law called to cancel. The vacation ended up being my sister and I, along with her young son. The day I was leaving to go to the cottage, my sister had one of her temper tantrums. Bottom line, she ended up not showing up and argued with me about her decision for months after her dramatic episode. Her constant nagging at me for her decision was driving me nutty, to say the least. I kept telling her that her decision was her’s alone and that it had absolutely nothing to do with me. Needless to say, my parents stepped in and called me after one of her outburst when I told her to leave my home They (my parents) called me to say that my sister just left in a tizzy and what did I do to her. I said “I’m sick and tired of both of you dragging me into what her bad behavior produces”. “I’m not a Svengali … I can’t make anyone say or do anything”. Then my parents told me “they always knew there was something wrong with her, but they never could get through to her … so they’d include me because I was the sensitive one and by including me into her punishments/scoldings, I’d be upset and talk some sense into her because I was angry of being blamed for her actions”.

Yes, go figure with this logic! I guess my parents were at their wits ends with her as we as we were being raised. Anyway, I said to my parents “thanks for finally coming out with the truth”. “A little late than never I guess, but it would have been nice to tell me you knew that there was something wrong with her when I was 10, instead of making me suffer all these years and thinking the two of you couldn’t tell the 2 of us apart”. I told them to put their guilt at ease … that I figured her out years ago and that I was glad they knew too.

Maybe, just maybe your parents are so frustrated with your sister, they do the same thing to you. Placing the blame for her bad behavior on you … so that when you show a normal response of being hurt or upset, or other emotions, she can then learn from you. Of course, our parents need true interchanges with others. so they know they are grounded in reality. It must be very difficult raising children and they all have their own unique qualities. Good or bad. Parents having a manipulator playing them and not knowing this from day to day obviously get drained by all the drama and need to lash out on the sensitive one who “get’s it”!

Just a thought.


Regarding the death penalty and it being made a public viewing, that was done by many countries for many years and it did not work. In fact if you actually study the history you will see it became nothing better than a blood sport for the crowds. And even one innocent person being executed is one to many and that makes it “murder” when it happens. And with the large number of innocent people being released but who would have been killed it is kinda hard to argue for the death penalty unless there is 0% chance of error.

Now as for scipture wars, lets see if you, Wini, are yet familar with Romans 2 1-16 as I believe you said you were not previously. You know this that talks about those “others” who dont have the same beliefs as you do. I do beleive that the message of love, compassion, tolerance, understanding is the message of the bible, not hubris, hate, intolerance, self-righteousness and being judgmental of others spirituality.


Violence begets more violence. Yes we should have laws and yes we should have justice and put people in prison. But what we should not be doing (well at least from a christian view) is to be bitter, hateful, vengeful, blood thirsty, or cruel. And dehumanizing human beings by making them “others” is no better than the psychopathic people themselves. Justice needs to be administered in a just and merciful manner. Some people need to be locked up forever but that is always a sad thing when it happens because it is another human being.

Ox Drover

Blogger, I agree with you on the death penalty for the very reason that I have little confidence in our “trial system” the way it works at present. Frankly, even all the studies I have done of it over the past 25 or so years, I am not sure it EVER was much better at catching the crooks and proving that they were actually guilty.

Eye witness testimony is about 40-60%$ WRONG in cases where later DNA evidence proves the convicted party was actually innocent. I have read recently some really FUNNY studies done about eye witnesses and just how NON OBSERVANT we are when it comes to identifying people. IN the case I TRIED to remember a face in a robbery attempt, I couldn’t even remember if he had facial hair or not—the ONLY identification I could have made was he was a white male about 30-ish.

All the TV shows of CSI and all that junk (which is 99% unrealistic or fantasy) makes people think that any murder can be proven even without an eye witness, but most people when quizzed will tell you that EYE WITNESS is best evidence and it is really some of the worst.

In my son’s murder case: There is NO DOUBT he did it, because A) he was recorded telling someone on the jail phone where the body was and it was there B) he was recorded on the jail phone telling his cousin where the murder weapon was C) he told her friends before he killed her that he intended to kill her D) He was the last person known to have seen and been with her alive E) after he killed her, he returned with her jewelery and gave it to her friends and said he killed her.


Because he was 1) arrogant 2) felt like she deserved to die for turning him in and figured that everyone else thought like him 3) and didn’t get it that not everyone is “LIKE HIM” 4) was convinced that cops were stupid.

Doesn’t make a bit of sense to me, but that was his thinking.

Back in the 16-1700s even up into the 1800s, when England was transporting convicts to OZ and making the slavery there as a convict the most horrible until the Russian Gullag, or the Nazi prison camp came along, for crimes as “little” as stealing a loaf of bread or a handkerchief it did not in any way deter crime at all.

People were also publicly whipped in England with as much as 500 lashes which many times was fatal, publicly hung til dead, or hung til not quite dead, then cut down, having their intestines pulled out, set fire to intestines until they died (quite slowly and painfully) and then cut into 4 pieces and the head to be displayed on pikes around the country. Or to be put in a cage and hung up until they starved to death, the body being left there to rot.,…PUBLIC punishments, and yet people still did criminal acts. Laws and public punishments do NOT deter crimes.

Look at the two men crucified beside Christ…robbers….and that was one of the most horrific ways to die, many times taking days to finally die. Yet knowing the possible penalty they committed the crime anyway.

How many of us still drive over the speed limit, or talk on a cell phone and risk a ticket? How many people drive drunk or drugged up? The risk punishment does not deter people from doing what they really want to.

How about the new federal drug crime 20+ year terms for even small amounts of drugs? The jails are filling up, people know about the decades long sentences and are still taking the chances.

A law or a punishment is like a LOCK, it keeps honest people from doing it. It does not deter crooks from doing it.

BTW Blogger, I agree that the message of the Bible is not intolerance, self-righteousness or being judgmental of others, but that said, I don’t think we should tolerate abuse and in order to distinguish abuse we must use our common sense judgment.



Good morning,
My mother keeps telling me not to take what my dad does to heart. But she keeps emphasizing that I have to “respect” him. I remember a couple of posts ago that sociopaths use “respect” in reference to fear. I just don’t understand why she falls for it everytime. Sometimes for things that are so ridiculous and petty. I just don’t feel that its right for me to apologize to him for fear that it maybe another one of his traps. I really want to be ahead of the game when dealing with my father. My little sister, who is two years younger than me, still believes my dad is the ” perfect loving” dad. But she will start to realize too. My father insists on making me look bad to my family and family friends. Honestly, I hope the truth comes out sooner or later. I’m just praying that God will give my dad back what he did to all of us. My mom, on the other hand, believes she’s the only victim dealing with my dad. So whenever I’m upset at what my dad does, she says ” Your dad hurt me more than you” I’m like Mom, we all are affected by it some have healed further than others.”


hurtnomore – hi sweetie, sounds like things are moving on, but you are a bit stuck. you keep looking for fairness. it isn’t going to come in this situation. if you can really ‘get’ this you will detach more from the drama.

my dad is an n. i know how much i wanted for people to ‘get’ him in the last few years. i am 30 years older than you. but i can still see my stubborn self through my lifetime ticked with my dad and wanting to be crowned ‘right’ at his wrongs. but the truth shows in diff ways. the friends i had in the last few years see him as having stolen from me, (so does the lawyer btw and says i can proceed with a case), and he is almost alone. he has now lost both of his children. my sib years ago, and me in the last year. he has driven most people away and others speak poorly of him.

i lived inside the family with him and i loved him. as a kid i loved him fiercely. he was humourous and outgoing and very full of energy. as i got older i became an extension of him; i was supposed to do what he wanted when he wanted. and it is something he tries to maintain to this day. he doesn’t see the needs of others as being substantive. what matters is him. and his wants and needs and bad humour, his pouts.

so, i am NC with him. my mom has Alzheimer’s and she is still at home. it means i haven’t seen her in a year. 🙁 I don’t know how to see her and not him. but i have to be NC with him. i accept that he is bad for me. and he is bad for her. her only saving grace is that she has an amazing caregiver living with her, and that she forgets day to day what an asshole he is.


Onestep- I mean I think as I get older it will be more and more easier for me to be in less contact with him. I know it will be healthier and more joyful. I know that it must have been hard for you at first but you need to do what’s best for you. I just feel like the odd one out in my siblings because I want to get away from my dad and remain in NC with him. They just put up with his selfish and cruel behavior. I mean he’s trying to make so whenever I give him less and less control over my life, that he will give me hell. But as I give him less and less control I can breathe better. I’ve noticed though that whenever he is in need, all his “friends” bail. He has nobody to call but is always doing his “Christian duty” whenever they call him.


‘i won!’

if we EVER had any doubts about their lack of empathy…jayzus.


hurtnomore-my mother is a narcissist and I was her chosen one-to terrorize and then put out this image that I was her favorite. My siblings all have animosity towards me for being the favorite when all I ever wanted was for some of her freakin attention to go elsewhere and get off me. I have NC with her and now my sibs don’t want anything to do with me because I am NC with her and they think she’s a freakin saint who walks on water. I understand a little bit of how you feel-just wanting to get away. My N mom decided to text me in french yesterday when I was busy at work and unable to use my cell-WTF did she think that was accomplishing. I read it and deleted it.

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