By | May 4, 2011 143 Comments

My interview with Dr. Paul

Back in March, when I visited Florida, I did an interview with Dr. Paul R. VeHorn, who calls himself “Dr. Tough Love” and offers dating advice every week on his radio show. Dr. Paul also posts videos of his show on YouTube, and I just found it. I thought Lovefraud readers would be interested.

Donna Andersen on the Dr. Paul Show

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kim frederick

Great interview, Donna!!!
I did cringe at how often Paul insisted that the spath have “every” trait on the list. He was very forceful about that. You said, “well, they should have eight, nine or ten.” He disregarded that and simply repeated himself. Red flag, to me. I’d be interested in what you think about that, but know you may not want to comment.
You did a great jb, though. Towanda.

kim frederick

I agree that we can’t diagnose someone a psychopath who exhibits afew of the charictaristics, but I don’t agree that all psychopaths have all the charictaristics….I wish he would have been a little clearer about that.


Does anyone know some of the odd signs of sociopathy? I read a few on another site…

Lack sense of smell
Hoards junk, and throws out sentimental items
Wears sunglasses indoors..

Those are the only 3 I found. My spath didnt wear cologne but he didnt sweat at all under his arms. I also found it weird my spath kept all his cards from exes even the ones he said he hated. He also hated when I didnt answer the phone out of his presence when I would go home and if I didnt text back right away he had a huge problem. He acted like he was jealous of me and my mothers relationship and would never meet my friends we always had to be with his coke addict buddies. O and he always wore sunglasses no matter what.


Farwronged –
no spath did not sweat
he had no sense of balance
no sense of judgement – as in traffic – had many close shaves
no sense of personal hygiene
was obsessed with cd’s
hated it if I let the phone ring
hated it even more if I did not answer
got really excited about junk mail (prob cos he never got any post!)
was obsessed with the computer
and tv – hated lovey dovey dramas/soaps
never learned from mistakes – did the same stupid thing over and over
always had to have a sleep in the afternoon
never cleaned up anything – sink, bath, dirty clothes
always had to have the same newspaper every day
always drank tea, gallons of it

Just a few things………*te what did I see in him?! They say love is blind – quick someone, book me an appointment with the optician!


Candy: WOW! My spath had a thing about junk mail too and he would store it all in a drawer. He also had tons of letters from different attorneys but he would never open them. Dont know what that was about. He would speed, run red lights, and drink while driving all with NO LISENCE. He would say to me that his mom pays for him to do what he wants on the street and tickets me nothing to him. WHAAAAT? He also drank gallons of publix tea, coke, and ate lots of chocolates. He had a really addictive personality. Notice all those items are stimulants. He also was a heavy drinker, smoked weed, and snorted coke. My spath was very clean and really into his appearance. What the fuck was I thinking? When you make your appt, book one for me to! LOL


Farwronged – you are right. He had to have stimulation all the time. If there wasn’t any he’d create drama to get his fix.


Mine sweat
Had smell sense and liked perfumes very much
Not dirty but neither super clean
He liked ambiguous bars, not opendly gay but those in between (well later i discovered the openly gay, too)
He was obsessed with having many friends, it was the most important for him (of course they were preys from the bars)
He liked to invite new friends to dinner to his apartment (the apartment which had not much more furniture than a big table and many chairs, and of course original pics of his idol the psychopath Klaus Kinski, other of Jorge Luis Borges when he was already old and blind and a few other anonimous wierd ones)
He liked photography
He collected magazines about photography and design. Had piles of them instead of furniture.
He had his clothes in boxes
He was addicted to internet
Addicted to shopping
He liked restaurants
He liked challenges
He liked sex but at the end he became very wierd and made me nervous because he looked continually into my eyes with his wolf eyes
He was very wierd in general: extremely nice sometimes, extremely hurting other times.
He sent me e-mails from several different mail accounts and he used to change suddently the arrangent of his name and surname, till three type of them. Was he sending emails to several prey at the same time or he did it on purpose, i don’t know.
He boasted of knowing famous artists and some people with money
He said his biggest frustration was not had been a rich man
He said that when little his grandma was a supporter of Hitler
He rather hated his mother
He said his father abandoned him and that his stepfather beat him and that his mother knew it
He liked Marlene Dietrich and Jean Cocteau
And through his facebook i saw he liked Clind Eastwood, Jonh Wayne, Al Pacino and Robert De Niro
He liked football but he told me he didn’t


Spath would offer to do things and then do a really crap job. Why bother in the first place. Looking back every job he attempted around the house was rubbish.


Some days he said he felt sick and he would move around slow and sleep all day. I dont know if that was a coke crash or if he was really feeling bad. He got headaches a lot almost instantly when we had a disagreement and always blamed it on me. He was very irritable and looked terrible some days but didnt act like normal people when they are sick. Little things upset him but when his phone have out he didnt seem very angry at all. He loved that phone. It was always in his hand mostly to keep me from going through it though. He texted all day and all night and was always on facebook.


Totally. And how about cleaning the kitchen and making the washing up. The kitchen ended up still half dirty. And how about the bed? I haven’t seem an adult doing it worse.


Mine complained of headaches too. And sometimes he felt kind of asleep for a moment anywhere.
And loved his phone and computer too. Me too received sms’s and emails during the whole day, emails above all. That’s not normal, that’s because they’re always online hunting.


Yes Eva – numerous email accounts and people take note…….if your computer starts playing up with spam etc you can bet your bottom dollar they’ve been looking at or downloading dodgy stuff.
Numerous mobile phone accounts.
Aliases by the score.


Mine wasnt good at cleaning only organizing. He told many lies about himself but no huge ones. He told another woman he had a six figure contract and mispronounced his name on purpose when they met.


Candy, and he claimed to be a quiet man not sex obsessed just interested in having a divorce from his wife. My god and he was even having sex with men.
But it’s peculiar how they give little hints, and i realized he did it on purpose: My best friend since many years is like a father and he’s gay. I’ll divorce my wife but i need time because it was a long relationship and i would like to keep a friendship with her. I go to Vienna to visit a friend (later i discovered he’s a gay, much younger than him, by the way). My friend from Vienna comes to my apartment a couple of days (and he had just one bed). My friend from Vienna gave me some penis gel, etc. LOL It was all very clear. They like to play!
And his facebook is full of all conquests from both sexes


Lies. Big ones, small ones, lies for no reason, lies to ‘get one up’, lies to get his own way, lies to make me feel guilty, lies to make him look good. Lies for lies sake.


Yes the lies are always ridiculous. ive had my suspicions about mine being gay but I wasnt sure.


Mine didn’t seem gay at all, and i know he likes women, but now knowing they’re mostly sexual than heterosexual or gay, and knowing that being the protagonists of their plays is what they like the most, i supose the sex of the narcissistic supply is secondary….


Hello this is my very first post. Iv been reading and reading and reading trying to absorb what has happened to me and for the first time in years I don’t feel alone or stupid or crazy.

I can’t recall mine having a smell
He showered 2 or 3 times a day
He was disorganised and lived his life in chaos
He lived out of his van when I first met him
He had loads of paperwork in boxes he carried around with him
He wouldn’t let his phone out of his sight
He was online every time he sat down
He was obsessed with pornography
He would complain of feeling sick/having headaches and go to bed for hours during the day
He wouldn’t let me speak if we were having a row but just keep repeating my name over and over so I couldn’t hear myself think
He never flushed the toilet – yuk!
Was incredibly untidy
Was obssessed with having a threesome even if it was with another man (I didn’t)
Generally obsessed with sex
Alienated me from my friends
Threatened my neighbours
Conned me out of £30,000 – about $50,000

Ox Drover

Dear LIfegoeson,

Welcome to Love Fraud. Keep on reading. You are NOT stupid or crazy, just have been hoodwinked…but so have we all.

Knowledge is power, so keep on learning and reading…you’ll find a lot of support here. Again, welcome and God bless.


Lifegoeson-welcome to LF and sorry you had to find us through that horrible experience. Boy we have all had the wool pulled over our eyes here. Keep reading and posting and you will find SO much support here to help you get better. It’s still helping me everyday that I’m here.

lesson learned

This is very interesting, the odd behaviors.

Particularly the headaches. Mine constantly had a migraine or was on the verge of one. Or a gut ache of some sort. Super HYPER aware of what his body was doing or not doing, every ache or pain.
He used these aches and pains to get out of commitments, whether at work or elsewhere.

Physical sensations of pain exaggerated ie: a papercut would nearly require an ambulance, hilarious really.

Extremely clean, only wore deodorant. INsisted upon his clothes drying out on the line. He smelled like clean linens ALL THE TIME.
I only saw him sweat once.
said sex was messy and insisted I have a shower with him before hand most of the time. One time, after sex and i had been menstruating he COMPLETELY stripped the bed, sprayed it, and put new everything back on it…over a spot. No kidding. It was WEIRD.

His living room, dining room were immaculate, kitchen a mess, toilets were BLACK from no scrubbing.

The outside of the house was IMMECCABLE, PERFECT. It looked better than the inside.

Stacks of mail on his deck, unopened and large amounts of cash lying around

MASSIVE MEDIA ADDICTED, tv in almost every room except the bathroom and always had to be on. At bedtime, tv was off and white noise machine turned on. he couldn’t STAND silence. CD collection that would make a record store manager envious.

Did not want anyone around him at all when he was sick.

Would spend hours a lone in his shop, doing nothing but piddling

Would be hyperactive, but get relatively little done, except in the yard.

Would get excited about a project or hobby and then drop it in a year or less, often this meant the purchase of something expensive (motorcycle) only to have it sit in the garage.

Obessive/compulsive shopper/spender, hoarder.

Would go from hyperactive to massive laziness.

There one minute in the room, gone the next.

Only ONE picture in the whole house of anyone was up in a frame and it was of himself.

Either extremely “happy” or extremely angry- moody

Extremely needy to extremely isolating.

Had a weird issue with bodily functions.

Two computers, one laptop, one desk top PC. There were so many icons on his desktop computer, it took up almost the entire screen.

Multiple cell phone and email accounts.

Weird. Did I say weird? Oh yea, weird, weird, weird….

It’s interesting how some of us here have had similiar commonalities,such as the multiple cells, emails, and media addiction with their spaths. I’ve seen that frequently.



“Only ONE picture in the whole house of anyone was up in a frame and it was of himself”

Naturally…LOL Roll on the floor…I always forget the initials


Thank you for making me feel so welcome, and for the kind words.

You have no idea how much this means to me, it feels good to be among friends, but sad that so many people have had to go through so much heartache.
Iv learned so much in the few weeks iv been reading the posts and am a bit overwhelmed by it all. Iv also learned that what happened to me is small fry compared to what others have had to suffer.
It’s unbelievable that someone who looks like an ordinary person can wreak such havoc in the lives they touch.


Hi lifegoeson and welcome. Most spaths are clones. There arent many differences. Today is a sad day. I am preggors. My spath and I broke up april 5. I sent him an email to inform him, I know im supposed to be NC. Of course he tells me to fuck myself calls me a bitch and says he does not care and its my issue. Not surprised, but this is just the news I needed to hear today. Ugh! Help….

lesson learned


Wow. I”m so sorry.

I don’t know how far you are away from your spath, whether you’re married or not to him….

But since you know who he is, if you’re NOT married to him and he doesn’t give a rats behind, it’s best to have no more contact and do the best you can with a lot of support on your own. I don’t know if you’ve read what co-parenting is here with a spath, but it’s a hell of a lot more drama and pain than you need if you can avoid it.

Take good care of yourself. Whatever you do, don’t let this be a reason for him or you, to allow him to weasle his way back into your life.

You’re just lookin at a Jerry Springer show.

Disengage. If he’s not into controlling you for the moment and onto another vicitm, LET HIM GO.

UGH! I’m so sorry for you. Do the best you can to keep yourself and your child as safe as possible.



I just found out. No we are not married. He knows that I know what he is and there is no getting back. I dont know who is pro or anti the A word, so I wont speak on that. I dont want his evil inside me. Do spaths know they are spaths?

Hope to heal

Oh my dear Far ~ I’m so sorry. (((hugs)))

I guess the first thing to do is take some time to think it through, and decide what you want to do about the baby.

You do have some options. Keep the baby, put it up for adoption, or end the pregnancy. I know that there are plenty of folks that would try to convince you that any of those choices are wrong for whatever reason. I, on the other hand, believe that the choice is yours to make. I do not feel that it is for anyone else to judge.

You may need to contact a lawyer to advise you on possibly getting spath to give up his parental rights. If he were to do that, it would be much easier to remain NC. If he does not give up his rights… ugh, you’ll have to maintain at least some contact with him for at least 18 years.

From personal experience, co-parenting with my husband’s ex-spath… it is MISERABLE. The child is used as a pawn in the cat-and-mouse game. It’s highly NOT recommended.


farwronged – oh my girl, i am so sorry.

i wish i could give you a hug, truly.

do they know they are spaths? they know they are different. they watch us, and they know. they see how hard it is for us to do the things they do so easily – without empathy, without remorse.

please maintain nc with him. they can and will manipulate any situation – and you must take care of yourself.


Thank you for understanding. I dont think he would have a prob I giving up rights. Hes just that cold and callous. Thats too easy for him. I hate that jerk. During the end of our relationship I found out he has another child due next month in June. I asked him if it was factual and he replied maybe, but fuck her and the baby. He stated that he welcomes her drama with the courts. He is an evil bastard. He already has s daughter and his mom handles his reonsibility and pays his child support for him. He is a sorry sack of shit! I dont think he really cares for her either, he just goes through the motions and plays good daddy when iys convenient. How can I explain that to a child? I hate I ignored the signs.


Thanks one.


farwronged – i don’t want to say too much in this open forum, but i am so blown away by what you said about his evil. you have my support. 100%

Hope to heal

Far ~ That’s just it. They LIVE for drama. Since you’re not married to the spath, there may be a way that you can legally do what you choose to do about the baby. There’s always the old: “gee, I don’t know who the father is”. I have known people that have done that. Just put unknown on the birth certificate so that they didn’t have to deal with the spath that actually was the father aka sperm donor.

Your sperm donor sounds like a real piece of shit. As far as ignoring the signs go… Until a person knows what to look for, how the heck would you know?? Some of these creatures are so VERY good at luring their victims in, that they never even realize what happened until it’s too late.


Whats their freakin purpose? Everything they touch turns to shit. Even us, until we get over the creeps.

Hope to heal

Their purpose? Hmm, good question. I guess their purpose is the same as any other evil being. It seems that every ideology has the battle between good and evil. That’s the only feasible explanation I can think of. They are here to test our goodness, or strength of character.

One of my Christian friends always says: “If the Lord brings you to it, He will get you through it.” I am a Christian also, but I do not believe in pushing my beliefs on anyone. That is not my intention.

Just trying to be supportive. (((hugs)))


There is a chance that the spath genes have been passed on. If this is the case, the child would need someone who understands in order to have a chance to be normal. So, although I know that the choice is yours, and one of several choices, the only choice I would recommend AGAINST, is adoption. Because it increases the chances of this child being a spath to be with a family that can’t understand.

Then there is that chance that the spath genes haven’t been passed on. If you have it in you to fight, then do it.

purpose? my friend told me that they are here as an example of how NOT to be. to expand on that: whatever you see them do – even their technique for wiping their ass – don’t do it. Don’t be like them.
That is their purpose, to give us the knowledge of good and evil.

Hope to heal

Sky ~ Wow, you make a really good point. I actually FORGOT about the genetic possibility. Holy smoke, that puts a whole different light on the issue.

Far ~ It could make your decision a bit easier. Although, I have to admit, it is a tough one. (((hugs)))


gee I hope I didn’t influence FarW either way. The genetic thing, well that’s always a risk. We don’t know how our children will come out, what disabilities they will have, even with perfect parents. But the adoption thing… that’s high risk, in my opinion because the abandonment of a child is supposedly an increased risk factor. Not trying to add emotional component here, I’m trying to just look at everything as logically as possible. It’s not easy.

Hope to heal

Sky ~ I think it’s good that you brought the genetics thing up. It is another piece of information that, in my opinion, is important in helping to make a very tough decision. An informed decision is always better.

I’m not sure that the situation could be made any more, or any less emotional at this point.

Far ~ I wish I could do more than give you a virtual (((hugs)))
Here for you girl.


H2H, thats my biggest concern, the genes. I know he does not care and could also care less if he never even saw his childs face. He is sick, so its not even in his nature to wonder how I am, if I need anything, or attenf a doc visit with me. I am a strong believer in Christ hopetoheal, its the only thing that gets me through the night. I just question him, why did I have to encounter this thing? Why me, and why now?Better days jave got to be ahead. This has made me a stronger woman and actually brought me evrn to closer to thr Lord in prayer. Ox quotes the Bible a lot and it helps to better understand what we are dealing with. The wolves in sheep clothing no doubt! I know deep down inside my spath is.miserable. Maybe some may evrm want to change but thry knoe they caanot. I just cant phathom watching my child suffer this damned disoder. Its a curse.

My iphone makes my spelling horrible, sorry


it’s ok, my droid sucks too.
I wish so much that I could take your pain away.

My spath wrote a letter in 1984 and I found it this year 2011. The letter was in a bible and it was to God. You must understand, first of all that my spath is INCREDIBLY EVIL, MURDERER, CHILD RAPIST AND PERVERT.

But when he wrote the letter he was in pain. and afraid.
I posted it here on LF somewhere. He was sorry and begged for God’s help while he was in pain for 2 years. But when he got better he went right back to poisoning me and torturing me and in the end plotted to kill me.


Sky dont worry. All I want to hear are facts. I cant talk with anyone else about this because they dont understsnd spaths. I tried talking with my mom, we are super close bit even shr still doesnt get it. A month ago when we broke up she saif p he will call back. We were together only ei th t months but shr still coukdnt believe all the hortible things I said about him.,he pit on the biggest frobt for my gamily and was always kisding or,loving on me like,he eas,so in love. Yuvk

Hope to heal

Far ~ I thought that was supposed to be a SMART phone?? LOL

Sorry, I just found that very funny!!

As far as why you? Why now? Dunno. To make you stronger, to teach you about the evils of this life. And as you said, to bring you even closer to God.

My feeling is that the trials and troubles that we experience are to strengthen our faith. To help us grow into the beautiful beings that the Good Lord wants us to be.

I also think that we go through bad times so that we can truly appreciate the blessings in this life. Yes, I’m letting my faith show a little. It has helped me to get through many difficult times.


Hope, I know right SMART phone lol….there is nothihg wrong with expressing religiouslbeliefs. I do hope everyonelhere will continue to be understahdihg ahd never judge one ahother.

Sky I read that letter. I rememver commentinglabout it. Spaths trying to mahioulate God. Hilarity! Lol


I agree with everything H2H has said.

I had an abortion at age 15. I waver between hurting over it and being glad because I would have destroyed my own child. I was raised by narcissists. I would have been a horrible mom. On the other hand, I should have given God a chance. Maybe the spath wouldn’t have bothered with a single mom and I would have saved 25 years of spath hell. who knows. All I know is that my parents profess to love me but they don’t know the meaning of the word. My spath was just a fake for 25 years. Now I’m too old to have kids.

My faith has helped me too. but I respect your choice, since I got to make mine.

Hope to heal

Sky & Far ~ I want to wish you both pleasant dreams. And bid you both a heartfelt good night. Must get some sleep.


Tomorrow is another day on the journey to healthy, happy spath free living. God bless!!


Hope to heal

Sky ~ Oh my gosh. I just read your post above. I was just barely 18 when I went through that ordeal. I don’t regret it, at least most of the time. I would have been a terrible mom at that time in my life also, due to perhaps N parents. There was a lot of alcohol on dad’s side, mom is definitely an enabler, not sure about the N thing tho. (((Hugs))) to you dear. I “hear” the regret, I also feel it myself sometimes.

It was the right decision at the time it was made. I’ve prayed about it often over the years. For the most part, I feel peace.

Really going to bed now. Take care.


I don’t feel peace, just acceptance, how can I change the past. I think it was God’s will even still.
love you, sister who knows me.



I do not envy the position you are in right now. I know without a shadow of a doubt what I would do, but like everyone else I wouldn’t want to influence your decision. I definitely wouldn’t judge you!

The reason mine was carting boxes of papers around with him was to defend himself in court (no money till he scammed me) against his wife who abducted the children from mainland Europe to the UK. He was going for full custody but only to win and put her in the wrong. He wasn’t capable of looking after them full time. At the time he painted her as the bitch from hell, but now I know it was her that was going through hell. I’m a little bit anxious writing about this in case he somehow finds out. He told me “no one bad mouths me and if you do I will hurt you!”
He ended up with shared custody so now his poor wife has to have regular contact with him till they are old enough to make their own choices. Then there’s the genetic factor – his children are damaged already so not much hope for a happy life.

Hugs to you and hope things work out well in the end xxx


I feel so badly for you, farwronged. Pregnancy should be such a joyful time and for me it was especially so with my now 35 y/o spath son. I had lost my premie baby the year before and couldn’t stop grieving, therefore decided to get pregnant again hoping it would relieve the grief. It did, but the beautiful perfect baby boy grew up to be the one I just yesterday had to disinherit.

I can’t tell you what to do, but from the moment he was born everyone who knew his father said he was just like him. I had four babies with that man (counting the preemie and not counting an additional miscarriage). We separated many times over 13 years, but I continued to love him through many separations until finally, one day I knew it was truly over. I didn’t love him anymore. I’m thinking that my X must have some degree of spath since he and his son are so much alike. He was a womanizer, irresponsible with money, jobs, anything to do with helping take care of hous, yard, kids. Spent most of his time hanging around with his buddies.

Since we split for the final time in 1989 he’s done nothing for his sons. I never asked for support since he never had any money. All I ever wanted was for him to be a father to his sons. He didn’t even do that. No weekend visits, no holidays or vacations spent with them, nothing. I was the one who kept them connected to his side of the family as best I could, but it wasn’t enough.

Now that they’re grown he asks for money from them. My youngest son misses him the most and will probably end up helping him out eventually. That thought kills me, because all these years I did everything for these boys including scrimping, saving and denying myself in order to pay for their college.

I guess what I’m telling you is you could end up with a wonderful caring, loving child or one who’s just like his father.
If I could do it over again with the knowledge and experience I have now I’d keep my eyes wide open and be attuned to any early signs of untoward behavior. With all the information now available it shouldn’t be too hard to figure things out early in this child’s life if you decide to raise him/her.

I don’t know if abortion is an option for you, but I thought I’d mention it, just in case. Then there’s always adoption, but you’d have to make it clear what the father is like to the prospective parents. And these days fathers have rights, too.
He might fight you for custody. He might totally abandon you and the baby. He might insist on being in the child’s life eventually just to hurt you or the child or both. There are so many scenarios that my best advice is to get yourself a good lawyer if you can afford it or go to legal aid if you can’t. And do it soon. And get some therapy immediately, too, to help you work through this maze.

My thoughts are with you, and I’ll hold you in the light.

To lifegoeson I say “welcome”. I, too, am a new blogger and am so glad to have found this site with so many caring, understanding, helpful, loving, and kind people. I don’t feel so alone anymore.

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