By | July 3, 2010 51 Comments

NPR series on psychopaths, the brain and crime

This week, NPR aired a three-part series called Inside the Criminal Brain. It takes a look at neuroscience, genetics and psychopathy. Read or listen to the stories here:

A neuroscientist uncovers a dark secret

Inside a psychopath’s brain: the sentencing debate

Can your genes make you murder?

Link submitted by a Lovefraud reader.

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This “article” is very interesting, getting information about sociopathy from a scientific viewpoint. I have learned that in my h-spath’s family, the genes plus childhood abuse (physical abuse by his father and lack of bonding with his mother) caused my h-spath to develop the disorder.

Ox Drover

Thanks, Donna, and whoever sent this to her! GREAT articles! Raises the hair on the back ofr my neck though.

Interesting that the “Average inmate” scores a 22 on the PCL-R, with a “psychopath” scoring 30 or more. Which means to me that we have a bunch of bad dudes and dudettes in prison AND at least 25% of them are BAAAADDD dudes and dudettes! NONE of which are worth a bunch but some few of which might be salvagable given the right circumstances for rehabilitation (which our prisons no longer try for).

Thanks again for the article.


ALL we need is to feel sorry for them… Urgh

Frank Lee Speaking

“ALL we need is to feel sorry for them” Urgh ”

Indeed. This is that whole Scientism crap which came out of the 1950’s and which considers science and nothing else as the only true path to understanding. I am not talking about science here, but the notion that science is the NLY TRUTH. What obnoxious hubris.

Another thing too is that science is filled with their own sociopaths and idiots too. Look at the whole Man Made Global Warming thing. Not only were the main scientists caught lying and “cooking the books”, but also their emails showed them organising cabals of “us and them” to destroy the careers of anyone who did the unspeakable and simply asked for more data. One string of emails between two of these creeps was all about snickering at the tragic death of another scientist who wasn’t convinced by their data. Another email was one scientist saying he would like kill another scientist who was constantly bothering him and cross checking his data. So sociopaths are in every field.

Sadly we live in the age of the celeb scientist were to even question the motives of the scientific community you are instantly branded a neaderthal. That’s why I can’t buy into the whole “Sociopaths are Created by Genetics!!!!” idea completely as we still have no idea what 90% of the DNA in our bodies actually does and so the scientists have labeled it “Junk DNA” and refuse to study it. So much for genetics being a hard science…

Again, I am talking about science as a dogma, here and not knocking all science and scientists. Just pointing out that its filled with charlatans and sociopaths too, just like any field which attacts power and money and these types will do anything to get noticed and sell out to any major corporation (mainly Big Pharma) or government who waves research grants at them.

Swine Flu Pandemic whch was to lead to “hundreds of millions of death” anyone…


Frank – you DO have a way of being inflammatory. 😉 You do know that you can say things in a slightly different way and not be so insulting, and still get the point across, don’t you? Be a bit diplomatic? Cite your evidence? I know it’s not your style, but just saying.

I am not saying i disagree with your views; in fact I agree with what i see of a few of them, but if you care to be in dialogue it’s better if you don’t have to duck every time someone hears your voice. just saying.

Frank Lee Speaking

It’s not everyday that I find myself agreeing with a rag like TIME, but this article really shows how easy we are to manipulate, and in many ways demonstrates the “hidden knowledge” of the sociopath has to control us.


“There may be few things more fundamental to human identity than the belief that people are rational individuals whose behavior is determined by conscious choices. But recently psychologists have compiled an impressive body of research that shows how deeply our decisions and behavior are influenced by unconscious thought, and how greatly those thoughts are swayed by stimuli beyond our immediate comprehension.”

Read more:,8599,2000994,00.html#ixzz0soZ2d0VU

Frank Lee Speaking

One step here is a good introduction on the Man Made GLobal Warming looney scientists soon after the emails were leaked;

Just remember “Climategate” the next time you hear the like of Richard Dawkins declaring every who is not worshiping all science unconditionally is delusional…


Frank lee – yes, there are wing nuts everywhere and most of us take suspect pleasure in things. some people cook facts, some don’t. just because there are some lies and BS, doesn’t mean that global warming doesn’t exist. This is one topic we don’t agree on.

and this wasn’t the point of my post. 😉


Hey Frank Lee, for someone who thinks Jesus’ Truth is bunk, you just wrote about the Seals Trumpets Vials and you don’t even know it (SMILE).

Anyway, it seems like end of days where Babylon is roaring it’s ugly head. Babylon meaning … everyone is deceived by babble baloney or Bull chit. No one questions it because they don’t read or comprehend the Bible, except for true Christians.

Anti-social personalities aren’t born … they are the most deceived of any of us down on earth so they follow Satan (LIES) instead of Jesus (TRUTH) … Thanks to the charlatan false preachers for NOT teaching the Truth (this has been going on for over a hundred years)… wisdom, the word of Jesus … but man made lies (science fits in this category) … Yes, false science, the new religion and folks don’t even know it. I’m not speaking of TRUE SCIENCE that is proved.

Yes, end of days … where Bullchit and Bullchit artists are held up as mini gods … and nonsense rules supreme.

This black horse represents a spiritual famine, Amos 8:11.

There has been various devastating natural disasters but these are just the beginning.

The term used “beginning of sorrows” means the beginning of labor pains of the third earth age or the earth age to come. I translate it, the beginning of the Revelation/unveiling of Jesus Christ.

These four beasts are the global communities, or Satan’s dynasties, Economics, Religion, Politics/Government, and Education.

It says a measure of wheat for a penny and so on, back in the day of this writing that equaled a days pay. So we know that this alludes that in the Last Days the weights and measure or Economy is going to be offset and our government is going to resort to taxation and/or inflation. The oil and wine is Gods Election.

Now let’s see what’s happening just in the USA. Our economy is down the toilet, our school systems are run by idiots, most of our religious leaders (besides being charlatans and idiots) are sending everyone that listens to them straight to the eternal flames because they teach man made logic, not Jesus’ Truth, I can’t even discuss politics today without laughing and crying at the same time, it’s that pathetic.

I don’t need to go on … you need to seriously read the Bible and instead of thinking God is a psychopath … try looking at Him as telling us about the psychopathic personalities in the world … meaning, look at His teachings objectively.



One Step, Global Warming is such a farce for retired politicians to make a buck and of course, sell that book! They are playing the chicken little crowing on you “the sky is falling, the sky is falling”.

Our politicians read biographies such as PT Barnum’s … meaning they believe (we the little people, aka the pee ons of the world) are suckers born every minute.

Frank Lee Speaking

lol! onestep, I am about far from right wing as you can get. But you just proved the point. People” believe” in Man Made Global Warming because they feel a political desire to associate themselves with some agenda put into their heads by media which is all corporate run and you’ll find that Big Oil is pushing for the carbon taxes more than anyone so they use it to upgrade their refineries and driling technology claiming it will be more eco-freindly.

Oldest corporate- political trick in the book… Invent a problem which does not exist – generate a public reaction through media – create the solution.

The Man Made Global Warming rubbish science has been so blown out of the water at this point that the whole thing is in ruins and more and more like a Monty Phython sketch with each new revelation. Contray to Al Gore, most scientists DO NOT acept it as fact and NEVER DID. Anyways, what does left and right have to do with anything other than “my fake political agenda is better than your fake poltical agenda so there!”.

Al Gore recently praised the US Navy for their carbon netural jet bombers which are used to slaughter muslims to take their oil. Ironic??? Can you see how utterly insane the whole thing is when that con artist is flying around the world in a private jet to tell the rest of us to stop driving so he and his eliteist buddies can continue to live life kings in the lap of first class luxury.

Anyways, aside from your political slant (which is made up for you to believe in anyways as the same big business controls both sides) – the ICCP have admitted, reluctantly the warming never happened. The whole story of the glaciers melting was a lie as the head of the group is an Indian Railway Engineer, not a scientist, and the only evidence he presented for this was a magazine clipping from a mountaineering journal from 1994 and it just goes on and on and on the more you look into this story. The world’s expert on polar bears was refused to speak at the most recent Climate Change conference because he said the polar bear numbers are increasing to all time highs. This flys in the face of the propaganda of no cuddle white bears will be left…

Can you see were this is going…

The fact is the Sun and Cosmic Rays are the issue. The evidence is so overwhelming and carbon dioxide is not the problem – it is not a toxin – IT IS PLANT FOOD. This is not to say that humans should not be reducing their pollution and we should not be moving away from oil. I am in favour of all alternative energy except wind turbines which destroy the countryside visually and kill millions of birds. But everything else, solar, wave etc bring it on.

The main reason I am want to see humans get off oil is I am sick of seeing millions of muslims being slaughter by the US military in order to get the stuff. And it costs the USA a terrible social and economic price too.

Oh, and one more thing. The same lowlifes who now tell us to stop driving are the same ones who made us all oil dependent in the first place. Same families, same elites just changed their tune because they can smell bigger profits. I care more about dead babies in Iraq than Al Gore’s fake tears during his crazy made up slide show movie where he accended like an Eco Jesus in a cherry picker to point to a hockey stick graph which was only showing recent climate temps and not the even more dramatic increases of the past.

Just do some reseach. Honestly, within 15 minutes you’ll be laughing at the absurdity of the so called “science” of man made global warming. The climate has always had dramatic changes long before cars. In fact, many of the previous warming and cooling cycles were rapid and also connected to solar and cosmic changes. For the last 12 years the sun has been doing interesting things and this is reflected in earth climatic changes. But there is no money in that so they make up something called a “carbon footprint” and see a way of taxing us for being alive.

The Vikings were not having a laugh when they called it “Greenland”. That was a literal geographic discription of the place 1,000 years ago. How many SUVs did Erik the Red own?

Unless they were all “right wing nuts” too…


Can we stay on topic? Much of this jimberish should be deleted because it is rapidly diluting the blog’s value.

Frank Lee Speaking

behind blue eyes – I was just being asked to cite sources in the context of a general topic drift about how you cannot worship science unconditionally as an example of why people should just not automatically believe it as absolute fact “because a scientist says so”.

Personally I found the article above interesting
because the scientist in question hasn’t got a clue about sociopathy the more you look into his quotes, so his “results” are based on flawed data. Anyways, like so many scientific studies into the issue the entire trust is about “helping” sociopaths. Robert Hare is still attacked for pointing out that they are evil and cannot be cured. I know which side of that argument I stand on.

You are right it has gone way off topic, but as for devaluing the board I would suspect that most on here are adults and they won’t read what does no interest them.

Personally all the religious bible quoting is what devalued the board more than anything. When I first came here for information on female sociopaths the first thing that I encountered was something about how they were it he bible and some passages of biblical quotes. I stayed off love fraud for almost a year and then I saw a link to some article on here about sociopaths and testosterone and I started reading the blog and realised how amazing it is.

So the board has been “devalued” long before the previous 3 posts and is still here and getting a lot of traffic. The wider message here is bigger than anyone’s personal agenda – even mine. I discovered this and others will too.

Ox Drover

Dear Behind_blue_eyes,

How is your rehab coming? Are you still making progress?

I’m sorry I missed this series on NPR–I love NPR– butI generally don’t listen to it unless I am driving and then I do because it usually gives me something interesting to think about. Think I’ll move my radio out where I can more conveniently listen to it during the day.

I’ve used those great links though to search for others mentions of psychopathy or sociopathy etc. on NPR.

The unfortunate thing about most media is that the only ones labeled psychopaths/sociopaths/anti-social personality disorder etc are the serial killers or serial rapists, and other violent people. Sure, it doesn’t mean that those serial killers or violent people are NOT psychopathic or that they don’t tip out the top of the line, but psychopathic traits are a continuum not an ABSOLUTE NUMBER, even though the way it is measured (numerically) seems to give it a number that can be measured.

I think the number of fingers and toes you have can be measured/counted but a “score” of your psychopathic traits is a BIT different. While the PCL-R is probably fairly accurate in picking out the “top of the line” psychoplaths (the ones who score 30 or more points) but what about the guy who scores 29, or 28, is he NOT A PSYCHOPATH because he is a couple of points shy of NUMBER?

A person with an IQ of 75 is consicered mentally retarded and can’t be executed for murder because of that NUMBER

While we frequentyly here talk about that 20-25% of all criminal inmates are psychopaths, Dr. Keith Kiehl syas in the artical on “the sentencing debate, that the AVERAGE INMATE SCORE on the PCL-R is 22, which if yhou look at the PCL-R is A PRETTY F’D UP PERSON that you would not want to mess with or be involved with. Of course “average” means that they take ALL the scores and divide the number of inmates into it, so there must be some guys in there with 29s and 28s and some with less than 22 as well. I would be interested to know what the “mean” score is where half are above that score and half below that score. But in any case it is obvious that the “Non-psychopaths” in prison are not choir boys either.

Which would basically mean that the GENERAL INMATE population of nearly 2 million inmates (not counting the ones on probation and parole) probably are HIGH IN PSYCHOPATHIC TRAITS, and only the lower end of them are likely to respond to treatment.


“Much of this jimberish should be deleted because it is rapidly diluting the blog’s value.”

Yes. I am with you, BehindBlueEyes.

I think what you are witnessing on this thread are the effects of some more GASLIGHTING.

This is exactly what gaslighting will do, whether it’s done intentionally or not.

It distracts you from what SHOULD BE your main focus.

It’s very insidious.

I like to believe that there is a lesson in everything.

So…..although this thread (and many others) have strayed off course a bit, it’s still an excellent example of gaslighting, if that’s any consolation.

Frank Lee Speaking

So basically anyone who is not playing along is a Gaslighting sociopath.

Praise Jesus!


During WWII, Irena Sendlerowa (known as Sendler) got permission to work in the Warsaw Ghetto, as a Nurse.

She had an ‘ulterior motive’ .., She KNEW what the Nazi’s plans were for the Jews, (being German) Irena smuggled infants out in the bottom of the tool box she carried in the back of her truck.

She also had a dog in the back that she trained to bark when the Nazi soldiers let her in and out of the ghetto.

The soldiers of course wanted nothing to do with the dog and the barking covered the kids/infants noises.

During her time doing this, she managed to smuggle out and save 2500 kids/infants.

She was caught, and the Nazi’s broke both her legs, arms and beat her severely.

Irena kept a record of the names of all the kids she smuggled out and kept them in a glass jar, buried under a tree in her back yard.

After the war, she tried to locate any parents that may have survived it and reunited the family.

Most had been gassed.

Those kids she helped got placed into foster family homes or adopted.

In 2007, Irena was up for the Nobel Peace Prize in 2007. She was not selected. The prize doesn’t always go to the most deserving, especially in today’s big ego movement where the bigger the ego, the more prizes are won.

Oct 12, 2007. Al Gore and the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change won the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize.

However, the Polish Government refused to ignore Irena. She is now a Polish national hero and Poland is coming to terms with the painful legacy of the war and the Holocaust. Irena last visited with the Life in a Jar students on May 3, 2008. She passed away on May 12, 2008, at the age of 98.

She died, whilst being nursed by one of the children she saved from the gas chamber.

It is now more than 60 years after the Second World War in Europe ended.

This reminder is in memory of the 6 million Jews, 20 million Russians, 10 million Christians and 1,900 Catholic priests who were murdered, massacred, raped, burned, starved and humiliated.

Today, Iraq , Iran , and others, claiming the Holocaust to be ‘a myth. These folks are re-writing history. It is imperative to make sure the world never forgets FACTS aka Truth for FICTION aka lies, because there are others who would like to do it again (the anti-social personalities of the world).

Frank Lee Speaking

Quality post there Wini.

We should never forget that there was once a time when the Noble Prize actually stood for something other than boosting politicians egos.

Didn’t Henry Kissenger also win the NPP?

Quotes about Kissinger: In Haig’s presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as “dumb, stupid animals to be used” as pawns for foreign policy.

Funny how many real sociopaths run the show…


wini – i stated my opinion re global warming. i do not understand why you feel a need to then state to me directly that it is a farce. I am not interested in discussing this topic on this blog.

I also do not think that it is right to continually quote scriptures to those on the blog who have stated that they do not believe as you do, and that they find it offensive when you quote to them. I am not Christian, but I always am interested in your citations – but those who say they aren’t, either by being direct or derogatory, aren’t.

frank lee – same to you my man – not interested. i was suggesting citing sources might be useful instead of making statements from un-cited sources – thereby giving people a choice to look at the material to draw their own conclusions. I meant this in relation to issues dealing with spathy, and did not mean that i wanted to engage re global warming on this blog. I am sorry that i did not make myself clear.


Frank Lee, you’re testing my gray matter … Yes, Kissinger won the NPP in 1973 … Remember those days? Vietnam!

What I find ironic is this past April (April 10, 2010 to be exact) airplane crash that killed Polish President, Lech Kaczyński, and 95 Polish politicians.

The entire Polish government was wiped out. The plane crashed in Russia which occurred when the plane was supposedly approaching a Russian airport. Accident due to dense fog. No survivors!?!.

Those listed as being on board included:

Lech Kaczyński, the President of Poland

Maria Kaczyńska, the first lady of Poland

Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile

Jerzy Szmajdziński, the Deputy Speaker of the Sejm

Władysław Stasiak, Chief of Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Aleksander Szczygło, head of the National Security Bureau

Paweł Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland

Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs

General Franciszek GÄ…gor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff

Å‚awomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland

Andrzej Przewoźnik, Secretary-General of Council for the Protection of Struggle and Martyrdom Sites and several members of the Sejm.

Several other Polish government figures were in the plane as well.

None of the passengers survived the crash.

I’m shaking my head here. This is left to history as a freak accident? Then the story is conveniently dropped from the news. Short blip. They’re all dead. Bye, bye story.

Ox Drover

Unfortunately, I think in many political arenas Wini is right, the person with highly psychopathic traits of dishonesty, self centeredness and lack of empathy, guilt or a moral compass rises quickly to the top of the “ruling classes.” Power corrupts and absolutel power corrupts absolutely.

I cant remember where the study was done, but it is quoted here on LF somewhere if any of you can remember where let me know…anyway, it showed that “ordinary” people who were placed in positions of authority started to act more like psychopaths when this power was given to them.

My medical director (physician) and I used to playfully debate if ONLY arseholes became neurosurgeons or if becoming a neurosurgeon made you become an arsehole.”

There is no doubt in my mind that some of the BEST surgeons are VERY high in psychopathic traits, they might not score a 30 on a PCL-R but they are highly narcissistic, care little for others feelings, feel entitled, controlling, etc. and many have absolutely no moral compass—and while I do not like Dr. X as even a characature of a human being, he is the one I want cutting on my spine if I need taht kind of surgery.

Most of you know I already think there is a GREAT DEAL OF EVIDENCE that most if not all politicians in high office are also HIGH IN PSYCHOPATHIC TRAITS—Bloggo is, I think, the RULE not the exception. Clinton is another one I think is very high in the traits. And Edwards and a lot of others who have NO compassion on their families. They are crooks if nothing else.

While the estimate that there are 1-4% of the general population that woujld score 30 on the PCL-R and be classified as “ful fledged Ps” WHAT ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO SCORE 29, or 28, or 20 plus? What about the OTHER cluster B personality disorders?

What about the convicts in prison (almost 2 million now) that are 25% Ps and ther rest average 22 on the PCL-R? and the ones on parole (former prisoners) means that another huge group of people are 25% Ps and the rest of them average 22 on the PCL-R. What about the 4 mijllion people on PROBATION? What is their score? Some of them include people who have plead guilty to 2nd degree murder, like the 4 men who copped a plea in the BIRD ROCK BANDITS (google that for the enitre stories) about a group of 5 guys who had been bullys since gradeschool and had beaten up dozens of people—but never been in trouble until one of the people they beat up died. 4 of them got probation and the man who actually threw the punch got 20 to life. Only 1 of the 4 who got probation FOLLOWED the rules, the other three violated the probation reqirements about drugs and associations with each other and got 3 year sentences.

My observation of the videos and witness testimony and video of the murder is that 4 of the 5 men were probably psychopaths and the 1 who did finish his probation was simply a follower who went too far.

The parents of the one who threw the punch just couldn’t believe that a jury would send their little baby to prison for just a “fist fight”—BTW, he had turned down a plea like the other 4 involved because arrogantly and with his parents hiring a high dollar high profile attorney they thought he would walk out a free man.

Germany became What Germany was in WWII because of teh INFLUENCE OF A PSYCHOPATH and his psychopathic and evil coconspiritors and millions and tens of millions of people died. In China, Mao probably killed by concervative estimates 60 million chinese un equally horrible circumstances.

Psychopaths in power are very dangerous not just to 1 or 2 individuals but to whole cultures, whole societies and the entire world.

In the old TEstement, Books of I and II Samuel, it tells the story of King Davidand his psychopathic son, who commited treason against his father’s throne, causing a civil war in the country. History is FULL of these kinds of stories.


one_step_at_a_time, Let me simplify Christianity this way … being and speaking Christian is just another language. Same as with the French, Russian, German, Italian, Spanish etc. Languages of the world.

If you never learn to speak those languages, of course it won’t make sense to you. Never the less, other languages and other topics do exist in the world.

I have never complained about your posts except I couldn’t help but tell you that global warming is a scam. Sorry you and others didn’t know this. Usually, if I don’t agree with you or anyone else I either put my two cents in or I SKIP over them.

It’s really easy to do that.

Frank Lee Speaking

wini, a Russian who was at the crash site filmed gunshots and voices saying “plase do not shoot me!” guess what…he ends up in hospital a few days later stabbed to death.

The world is run by psychopaths always has been and always will be. Even if the politican means well he is only get as far as being a puppet who has to do what he/she is told or he goes the way of JFK or the entire Polish govenment. I live in a country that has been torn apart by centuries of religious sectarianism, I have seen people blown to pieces by bombs and smelled their burning flesh mixed with burning tyres, and when you really study the history the same people are funding the groups on both sides and ordinary decent people who just want to lives their lives get killed.

War is good for psychopaths and big business. The two are usually intertwined. I also think this is way there is a general ignorance about sociopaths/psychopaths among society in general. The powers that be have a vested interest in making sure we never know this stuff in case we come to the obvious conclusion that the lunatics are running the asylum.



Irena Sendlerowa (Sendler) is an actual hero, risking her life for the benefit of others. She was tortured and survived. People like her really don’t need earthly awards – she is being rewarded now for the life that she led, spending eternity in heaven. That’s the best “award” one can have.

Ox Drover

Frank lee speaking, you and I agree totally on that, the lunatics are running the asylum…..and I also believe the barbarians are at the gates!

Frank Lee Speaking

Check this out for a classic case of media psychopath who is employed by the elites to socially engineer the rest of us into more or less being a sociopthic society which reflects their own mentality (you see this kind of predictive programming on MTV for decades now).

However, I think the PTB went a bit too far hiring this repulsive entity and making her a deputy of a mothering magazine! This is just incredible:


“An article in a magazine for new mothers that described breastfeeding as “creepy” has drawn widespread criticism.

Mother & Baby Magazine’s deputy editor Kathryn Blundell said she bottle fed because she did not want to put her “fun bags” in a “bawling baby’s mouth”.”

Frank Lee Speaking

Interestingly “fun bags” is a British slag term for male testicles and not female breasts which is also another aspect of sociopaths in that they do not really get humour and forget why jokes are actually funny. They laugh along because everyone else is as they have no sense of irony.

There is also another deeply twisted psychological aspect to a sociopath female comparing her breasts to testes. Which gives a lot of creedence to what many people on this group have noticed that sociopaths tend to be a-sexual.


Frank Lee, I just read your blog about the photographer at the site of the plane crash. Yes, I know the loonie tunes are running the asylum. Been there, got the T-shirt to prove it … my entire life was crashed and burned due to psychos in power. My Ex was head of his Masonic Lodge … say anything to you about being in bed with the evil ones in power?????

Frank Lee Speaking

my blog?


my spath had a wicked sense of humour. actually, quite an astonishing sense of humour by any standards. it’s what kept me engaged. just goes to show even though they are all ‘the same’, there are differences.


One_Step- mine had NO sense of humor. That will be added to my list of Red Flags! Looking back, he probably didn’t laugh more than a few times when I was with him. I sooo wanted to have some fun with him- but that never happened.

I love to laugh and joke. Whats’ the point of living if you don’t enjoy it?


Regarding the article and the massive dark area in the author’s brain as opposed to the colored area in his son’s brain- what is in that dark area? Is that why we get the feeling that “no one’s home”- because there’s nothing in there?

I suppose that’s why some of us still feel sorry for the S/Ps. They “can’t help it”… But that may also be why they can never change- it’s not possible, physiologically… Just wondering…


sageegirl – exactly! that’s one of the ways I got caught in her net. laughed almost ALL of the time. and THAT, dear readers is a freking red flag too, given the horrible situation she was supposedly in. and here i thought i had met an advanced being of some sort.

snort, chortle, ack…

Frank Lee Speaking

SageeGirl says:

“what is in that dark area? Is that why we get the feeling that “no one’s home”- because there’s nothing in there? ”


That a very accurate way to look at it. Sociopaths are like junk food. Tastes amazing first time, fools you into thinking it is something it is not and is served to you with love and care, it slowly gets less delicious with each experience, but has no nutrition and make you sick eventually. Their inner world is like this. All the parts are there except the one that makes them human.

The humour things is sociopaths I always found was like they alinged themselves with what the saw people laughing at. They tend to laugh in a forced way too.

The one TV show every sociopath I ever knew liked was Family Guy. The reason is that family guy is not a funny show at all. It just uses stupid references to old TV shows, movies and advertisements. This is classic sociopath “humour” – but it is not funny or clever. It’s requires no sense of irony. I have shown incredibly funny movies to sociopaths and they would look at me to see when I laughed so they could take the cue from me.


frank – mine was great at irony. but she still was an all dressed nacho chip.

Ox Drover

Most “humor” is based on something bad happening to some one. Ah la, the old movies where the camera shows you a banana peel on the side walk, then cuts to the man reading the paper as he walks along, back to banana peel and by the time he actually STEPS on it you have been laughing already for a few seconds because that is “humor” in our society.

Anyone getting their come-uppance is humerous, that’s why the man vs woman jokes are funny, and the “blonde” jokes, and ethnic jokes, political jokes as well….they are all based on someone being embarassed or hurt in some way.

My P-son was the master of the “one-liine-come-back” and he was FUNNY with it, the quick off the top of the head smart alec comment that was FUNNY. (and usually a cutting remark as well)

Just as they have trouble with the concept of “love” or “caring” I also think in a way they ahve trouble with the concept of “funny” or what to laugh at. Like we will be inclined to laugh at Charlie Chaplin stepping on a banana peel if he falls down and busts his butt, but let’s say instead of that, he stepped on the banana peel and fell into a MEAT GRINDER. We would not laugh but the psychopath might as they might not “see” the differences in the two falls.

I believe too, that the VERY VIOLENT movies, Televison etc is not good for us as a society. The visialization of such hard core violence and especially by children and adolescents I think “hardens them” to real world violence.

I may be a fuddy duddy but letting a young boy play that game where they steal cars and kill people and kick them to death, etc. with pretty realistic graphics=-=why would any mother or father think that was GOOD for their kid to experience or at worst “harmless?” And wehave a huge number of kids doing just that very thing in the guise of “video games” and “movies” GLorified mayhem.

And the kids on the ghetto streets who have a choice, join the gangs or die! The leaders of the gangs being the biggest meanest Psychopath on the street.

Google the words “BIRD ROCK BANDITS” and look at a small “group” of guys, 5, who were beating people up on a regular basis until eventually they killed one and ended up going to prison. They were From the affluent families in La Jolla Californnia acting like ghetto thugs, at least 4 of the 5 I think were psychopaths, the other one I think geneually repented and he finished his probation without violating or being sent back to prison.

So when you have a psychopath and add media violence and entitlement along with enabling parents who hire high dollar attorneys who try EVERY TRICK in the book to get your son off for BEATING a man to death in front of witneses yet.

Now you have Joran van der Sloot and a big cotengent of others, not just the ghetto gangs where membership in a gang and violent behavior is the expected norm for many kids who feel they have no choice to do otherwise if they want to survive.

Well, I need to get off my rant here, this started out about humor and psychopaths, I don’t think they do see the same things WE do as funny. and conversely I think they see things as funny that we would never see as funny, but as horror.

Frank Lee Speaking

Hi Ox Drover, I love your last post.

Michael Tsarion is a brilliant researcher of how the powers that be manipulate (Gaslight) us all to distort our reality into doing everything from voting for a psychopath, to buying stuff we do not need.

He made this documentary in Sweden last year (below) and it is a masterpiece and I would suggest that everyone watch it and then think about your own life and if we are all living it the way we want to, or are we following orders giving to us via sublimials and predictive programming and through manufactured fear.

Not only mind opening and informative, but the filming is a work of art in itself.


Five days before I was discarded, I was invited to a rare weekday afternoon visit to my ex S/P’s house. He was watching some disturbing shouting match on TV between an adult woman and her father, where the woman was telling her father how much she hated him and that she was getting back at him by marrying some guy that must have been a rival.

I asked him if that was Oprah, and it was not. It was a “Wrestling Video” which he had purchased, and it was so violent and IMHO, quite sick. That afternoon, as I left this house- out of nowhere- he flashed those hateful, dead eyes at me, and I got a feeling in my gut that something wasn’t right.

Then I remembered that he had cut off contact with his father since he was 12, when his dad severely beat his mother. Seems to me he would want to watch something other than the garbage that would remind him of a terrible childhood.

Now I realize that this type of thinking must be what rules his emotions. He is always angry at someone. You are right, Oxy- this is the type of stuff that shapes the thoughts of kids today. We become what we think about and do on a regular basis.

Ox Drover

Dear SageeGirl,

Being exposed to anything eventually “normalizes” that to us. Look at the people who became guards in the Nazi prison camps, these people were not ALL psychopaths, but they eventually got so used to the HORROR AROUND THEM that they lost their humanity, lost the ability to be horrified at what they saw.

I’ve seen people faint in the operating rooms, or the morgue the first few times they were there, and after enough time there you can eat a sandwich and make wise cracks while someone lies there dead or dying.

YOU GET USED to whatever you see day in day out. Advertising works because it gets people used to the idea that buying X y or z will make you happier and that you need it. WHY do parents think that watching EXTREME VIOLENCE and GORE won’t have adverse effects on their children.

I raised my kids WITHOUT a TV—we had one but it broke and I never could find enhough money tyo get it fixed (they bought that line, but if I had told them that I didn’t want them to have one it would have been different) so while their friends were watching TV and playing Pac Man my kids were inventing , roaming the woods, and riding horses–one still turned out to be a psychopath, but it wasn’t because he was raised with violence—and one plays video games but still does not watch TV…and the adopted one watches 3 hours of TV a week, and I watch about 5 hours of TV a week.

SageeGirl, you’re very lucky and fortunate that he discarded you, he sounds really like a SICKO delux! Get on your knees and thank your maker that he discarded you! Some of us get ALL THE LUCK! LOL


Thanks, OxDrover, I really needed that. It’s been a tough day for me. I think that if he drove up in his white truck today, I’d see a white horse and “ride off into the sunset with him”…

Guess I’m just going through the range of emotions. I was doing really well- very positive and strong, but his name was brought up today, and he is getting involved with some people close to me… Just a bit uncomfortable.

The loneliness is hard to take at times. I will be better tomorrow. When he discarded me in January, he was so cruel that I told him he was a monster, had no heart, soul or conscience (and I hadn’t even researched his behavior until June), his behavior was not normal, and that all the love in the world couldn’t make up for being treated the way I was.

In March, he told me he missed me so much that he was about to “go crazy” and that he was thinking of moving back to his home state… I caved, and of course, just like you all say, he escalated his abnormal behavior.

When we finally spent the night together, he was so rough that I was injured. It got better for a short while, but then it got worse. He got to the point that he ignored me when I said he was hurting me.

So you are right- I am much better now, and do have times when I feel that at least I know what to expect each day when I wake up… It’s just tough doing it all alone… Thanks again.


Keep your strength. Each day in ‘another’ day….and it does get better!
There are always things to ‘remind’ us of this……we must see it.

It’s an up and down, round and round process of grieving, just when we think we have left ‘that’ emotion behind… peeps back up at us.
Just stay strong…….and believe in yourself!


Ox Drover

Dear Sagee Girl,

I hope you are around and I hope you are having a better day. It is a roller coaster ride for a while, but that is to be expected, but it DOES get better, I promise you.

Go back through the archived articles and read or re-read them, there are so many good articles to help you heal. Knowledge IS power so take back your power to heal! (((hugs))) and God bless.


Are You Involved With A Psychopath?”

Stop The Madness

By: Michael G. Conner, Psy.D

For most of us the idea of a psychopath conjures up images from movies like “Silence of The Lambs” and characters with names like “Hannibal Lector.” Fortunately characters like Hannibal don’t really exist. Serial killers and people involved in ritual torture are rare, but psychopathic behavior is more common than you might think.

I have known several psychopaths in my life. The clearest case involved an older teen who had no sense of guilt. He could learn the rules, but he had no sense of conscience. The only thing that saved him was a mother who loved him, took him to counseling for years and spent a great deal of time patiently teaching him right from wrong. I remember a conversation where he told me, “People know when something is wrong because it feels wrong. I have to remember or be reminded that stealing from someone is wrong. I don’t feel bad if I take something.”

Meeting this young boy changed my opinion of a psychopathic personality. Why? Because children with this condition are “emotionally blind.” And while I do not excuse cruelty or criminal behavior, I have sympathy and appreciate how hard it is for some people to learn how to act responsibly. Without help, potentially psychopathic children will become adults who never remain attached to anyone or anything for long. They may end up living a “predatory” lifestyle, feeling little or no regret, and having little or no remorse – except when they are caught or about to be locked up. A psychopath is not necessarily a bad person. But they are prone to have problems with society, rules, expectations and relationships.

A psychopath will use people for excitement, entertainment, to build their self-esteem and they invariably value people in terms of their material value (e.g. money, property, comfort, etc..). They can involve and get other people into trouble quickly and they seem to have no regret for their actions. To date there is no checklist of behavior and symptoms that will tell you with certainty whether or not a person is a psychopath. But there are warning signs. The following warning signs are based on my experience but primarily research conducted by Robert Hare, Ph.D – the leading expert on the Psychopathic Personality.

Characteristics of a Psychopath


superficial charm

self-centered & self-important

need for stimulation & prone to boredom

deceptive behavior & lying

conning & manipulative

little remorse or guilt

shallow emotional response

callous with a lack of empathy

living off others or predatory attitude

poor self-control

promiscuous sexual behavior

early behavioral problems

lack of realistic long term goals

impulsive lifestyle

irresponsible behavior

blaming others for their actions

short term relationships

juvenile delinquency

breaking parole or probation

varied criminal activity

The idea that psychopaths eat people is a myth. In reality, a person with a psychopathic personality can lead what appears to be an ordinary life. They can have jobs, get married and they can break the law like anyone else. But their jobs and marriages usually don’t last and their life is usually on the verge of personal chaos. They are almost always in some kind of trouble or they are not far from it.

A psychopath is usually a subtle manipulator. They do this by playing to the emotions of others. They typically have high verbal intelligence, but they lack what is commonly referred to as “emotional intelligence”. There is always a shallow quality to the emotional aspect of their stories. In particular they have difficulty describing how they felt, why they felt that way, or how others may feel and why. In many cases you almost have to explain it to them. Close friends and parents will often end up explaining to the psychopath how they feel and how others feel who have been hurt by him or her. They can do this over and over with no significant change in the person’s choices and behavior. They don’t understand or appreciate the impact that their behavior has on others. They do appreciate what it means when they are caught breaking rules or the law even though they seem to end up in trouble again. They desperately avoid incarceration and loss of freedom but continue to act as if they can get away with breaking the rules. They don’t learn from these consequences. They seem to react with feelings and regret when they are caught. But their regret is not so much for other people as it is for the consequences that their behavior has had on them, their freedom, their resources and their so called “friends.” They can be very sad for their self. A psychopath is always in it for their self even when it seems like they are caring for and helping others. The definition of their “friends” are people who support the psychopath and protect them from the consequence of their own antisocial behavior. Shallow friendships, low emotional intelligence, using people, antisocial attitudes and failure to learn from the repeated consequences of their choices and actions help identify the psychopath.

Psychopaths with low intelligence or a poor education seem to end up in jail more than ones with a higher education. The lack of emotional insight is the first good sign you may be involved with a psychopath. The second best sign is a history of criminal behavior in which a person does not seem to learn from their experience, but merely thinks about ways to not get caught.

So what happens to these poor kids if they don’t learn right from wrong? Parents with a child like this usually end up angry and frustrated. They will often shield their child from the consequences of their decisions and take the role of continuously trying to educate their child as to right and wrong. The child is always in trouble and doesn’t seem to learn. Their parents may begin to excuse their child’s behavior believing their child will eventually “get it.” When they don’t, many parents resort to punishment. But what these children need is intensive guidance, instruction, training, choices, consequences and supervision. Severe and repeated punishment alone is the worst thing you can do. Letting a child like this run around unsupervised with violent and antisocial children is almost as bad. And child abuse is a sure way to create a social misfit or a monster.

There is a growing discussion among researchers to suggest there may be a genetic influence that creates a psychopathic personality. The psychopath may lack the ability to physically feel what others identify as the physical sensation of guilt. They can feel fear, anger, sadness in the moment but not guilt for what they did or what they are about to do. Some sociologists believe that a sexually promiscuous psychopath who can live off others is a survivor and may represent one of many genes for survival in the human species. Even more surprising has been the observation that many adult psychopaths do not seem to benefit from support, counseling or therapy and may in fact commit crimes again and sooner because of it. Research using brain scanning technology has revealed that the brain of a psychopath functions and processes information differently. One famous brain imaging study showed that psychopaths can remain calm looking photos of dead bodies in automobile accidents where as other people were clearly upset. They don’t use their brain they way others do. This suggests that they may be physically different from normal people.

Are you involved with a psychopath? You may not know because they can be very charming and friendly until you get close and disappoint them. Don’t assume anyone is a psychopath based on their behavior alone. It is the pattern of their life and many other factors. Please don’t go around assuming or calling someone a psychopath just because they may have some of the warning signs. Get a professional opinion from a qualified mental health professional if you think you are involved with a psychopath.

For more information on the psychopathic personality and Dr. Hare’s book “Without Conscience”, see http://www.Hare.Org

copyright 2001 to 2005, Michael G. Conner



Interestingly, this was one of the first articles that I read when I was doing my online search (last fall), trying to figure out if my husband had something wrong with him, attempting to understand behaviors that he exhibited. As I read about the disorder, I came to the unfortunate realization that he is a sociopath, devastating me.


I listened to a radio interview a few years ago of a psychologist working in a “sex-offender program” in a federal penitentiary, who said that public policies and societal trends in western democratic countries are almost a psychopath making machine for vulnerable youth, because we concentrate on “rights” (e.g. the “right” to own/view/manufacture violent pornography, the “right” to broadcast preponderantly violent programming during daytime/primetime, the “right” to manufacture/distribute violent videogames to youth, etc…), which are not balanced by either responsibilities (to contribute positively to society), or especially protection (of vulnerable individuals).

The first article “A neuroscientist uncovers a dark secret” underlines how important good parenting is to the wellbeing of our children, and our society. Not to say that good parenting can prevent a biologically vulnerable child from becoming a psychopath, but obviously this researcher’s findings about his own brain has far-reaching consequences. One hopes it will quickly lead to research which gives politicians the evidence they need to support the creation of public policy which truly protects and promotes the well-being of vulnerable children.


Annie, our politicians can start with ensuring to get the public back to a one parent paycheck covering all expenses in a family unit … while the other parent stays home and is allowed to raise, love, interact with their children. It was the forcing of both parents into the work force that crashed and burned the American family unit as we knew it.


What is going on with Mel Gibson these days? Is he an anti-social personality? Is his current wife innocent or just anti-social too?

Oxy, I’m sure you know folks that know this character. Give up the scoop.

Ox Drover

Dear Wini, The only thing I know about Mel Gibson is what I read in the trash rags, or see on TV news, but you know, if those tapes are not forged, it sounds to me like he is a CONTROL FREAK—and we all know what a “control freak” is don’t we children? Ah yes, if it sounds like a DUCK, and keeps on QUACKING it is probably a DUCK, and if it talks like a control freak with an anger management problem and lots of demeaning things coming out of its mouth when it THINKS NO ONE EXCEPT THE VICTIM CAN HEAR (hee hee) THEN IT MIGHT JUST BE A PSYCHOPATHIC CREEP!

I don’t think it did it’s career any good either, and several prominent black entertainers and former co workers of it are saying some not so happy thoughts about what they saw behind its ugly mask that slipped.

I am sorry it has another offspring though….not sure what the mother of the baby is (who knows, she may be just another gold digging P herself) but I don’t think old Mel did himself any good with his rage-off at the mother of his latest child.


Oxy, I find it interesting that a narcissist found himself a gold digging sociopath. His story is more interesting than the norm these days (anti-social personality versus normal personality), since both parties (husband and wife) seem to be on the anti-social scale.

I wondering if Mel got set up to meet this babe? He’s shouting some pretty interesting things if those tapes are true.

I’m sitting on the fence on this one.

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