By | September 10, 2010 70 Comments

Pastor who threatens to burn Qur’an looks like a sociopathic cult leader

Pastor Terry Jones must be in sociopathic heaven. He’s threatened to burn copies of the Islamic Qur’an to mark tomorrow’s anniversary of the September 11 attack. His threats have created a media frenzy, drawn responses from President Barak Obama and General David Petraeus, and resulted in the death of at least one protester in Afghanistan.

Not bad for a sociopathic cult leader of a tiny church in Florida.

So who is this guy? He has an honorary degree from the unaccredited California Graduate School of Theology. He’s a former hotel manager who runs both a church in Gainesville and a used furniture business on eBay. The line between the two endeavors is apparently blurry, and is under investigation by Florida tax officials.

Church in Germany

Jones went to Cologne, Germany, to set up a church in 1981, which at its height, had 800 to 1,000 members, until the congregation revolted and threw him out. Here’s what a German publication, Spiegel Online, reports about the church:

A “climate of fear and control” had previously prevailed in the congregation, says one former member of the church who does not want to be named. Instead of free expression, “blind obedience” was demanded, he says.

Various witnesses gave SPIEGEL ONLINE consistent accounts of the Jones’ behavior. The pastor and his wife apparently regarded themselves as having been appointed by God, meaning opposition was a crime against the Lord. Terry and Sylvia Jones allegedly used these methods to ask for money in an increasingly insistent manner, as well as making members of the congregation carry out work.

Jones urged church members to beat their children with a rod. He ran an academy for children, with a printed rulebook that ordered them to obey the leadership of the Academy and the church, and prohibited them from visiting family members or friends, or receiving visits.

By the end of 2007, church members had had enough of Terry Jones, and expelled him. Only about 80 people remain in the church.

Back in Florida

Jones’ Florida church, the Dove World Outreach Center, also has only 50 to 80 congregants. The church is on a 20-acre property that is also the address of TS and Company, which is the online furniture business run by Terry Jones and his second wife, Sylvia Jones.

A reporter from the Gainesville Sun visited the church and found that the sanctuary was partially filled with furniture. Jones says that all employees of TS and Company are church members who volunteer their time.

Former members of Jones’ Cologne church – Christliche Gemeinde Koln – described the situation there differently.

“It’s all about how much did you work, how much profit did you bring in,” said Emma Jones, the 29-year-old daughter of Terry Jones and his deceased first wife, Lisa Jones. “He made 16-, 17- and 18-year-olds work 12-hour days.”

Emma Jones said she is speaking out against her father and the church she grew up in with the hope of helping others leave what she calls a “cult” that “forced us with oppression to be obedient.”

“They used mental violence. They’d say, ‘If you’re not obedient, God will punish you,’ ” Emma Jones said.

International incident

So this is the guy who wrote a book called Islam Is of the Devil. He’s the guy promoting International Burn a Koran Day. He’s the guy causing controversy in New York, protests throughout the Islamic world and possibly threatening American lives.

Terry Jones is an exploitative, brainwashing, sociopathic cult leader who demands that church members obey him and sell his furniture. And he’s loving all the attention.

For more on Pastor Terry Jones, read the following articles:

The church behind the signs, on

Terry Jones accused of ”˜spiritual abuse’ at Cologne church, on

DWOC Academy Rule Book, translated from German, on

Who is Pastor Terry Jones, and why is he burning to torch the Koran? on

Quran-burning pastor’s former German church denounces him: He’s ”˜violent and fanatical,’ on

Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of

Absolutely, this person strikes me as a sociopath on the order of Hitler who is so very dangerous and stumbled into power and notoriousness with his outrageous views. A very dangerous person indeed.

Ox Drover

I wonder why there has not been more on FOX, ABC, NBC, CBS and CNN about this guy’s background. I also looked up stuff on him and found several articles about him that made me think (more than I already did) that he was a psychopath/cult operative but why has the “mainstream” media not dug all this OBVIOUS DIRT out on this nut job?

I also saw a “non scientific” poll on whether or not the media has given him too much attention about the Koran burning and the results were like 98% yes! It seems to me that the media have stirred this up by giving him too much attention that was positive in the sense of giving him ATTENTION.

ATTENTION is what he wants, attention is what he is getting, and even if everyone condemns him for the threats to burn the Koran, he still gets the president and others speaking to and about him! WOW! What power and control this wacko has! He can stir up the entire world, create more WAR and OUTRAGE! And our media helps him.

Already there has been at least one DEATH reported as a result of this outrage, to say nothing of the deaths to come!

I saw one news article about our FREEDOM OF SPEECH and yes, we do have it, but it does NOT give you the right to yell FIRE in a crowded theater. This man should be prosecuted for the outrage he has committed, not for what he says, but for the HATE CRIMES he has done!

Personally I think the building of the Mosque near The 9/11 site is “legal” but UNWISE, just as this man’s speech may be “legal” but UNWISE.

I think what we are seeing is the butting of heads of two equally UNWISE and self centered extremists. POX ON THEM ALL!


I will donate some money to buy him a one way ticket to Afganastan or Irag or Iran

Ox Drover

Iran is my choice Henry, and I figure there should be enough of us here to donate $1 each and still get him a first class ticket! Here’s my buck!

Dani S

I was outraged hearing this on the news….. My uncles partner is Muslim and this family are some of the nicest, sweetest people I have had the pleasure of knowing.
We all know there are extremists of all faith’s and Terry Jones is no different.
Oxy you are right burning the koran is a hate crime and I think there is a real blur in some people’s views of freedom of speech.
I am a bit short of a buck this week but i would be more than happy to help packs his bags! 😉


I agree with many in that this nut job should not be being given air time.

The media have stirred up a storm in my country about this too.

We all know there are probably millions of revolting weasles like him creeping around on this planet ….and some of us dated/married/worked/popped out of one … we know that not one of them should be given the worlds stage to play with…. I feel that if he had been left to burn what ever books he wanted to quietly in his tiny nowhere ‘church’ (this man is not a spiritual man by my standards) it would have been better for the rest of the world…

…. The media have been giant sociopathic enablers here…



In my country (in theory) spreading religious/ racial hatred is an arrestible offense… maybe you should send him here instead so we can test if it works ;). Two birds with one stone:)


This man, Terry Jones, and another associate pastor were on the Today Show this morning. I didn’t listen to the interview, not being interested in what he has to say.


HEY GIRL…..!!!!!

I agree…’s like when the media reports on a shark attack…..and peeps watch…..they report more and more…..then it turns into people thinkng the sharks are all of a sudden attacking and we must move to highter ground….
DUhhhhh….sharks live in the water (and sometimes on land too! 🙂 )
Stop the hysteria…….

Yes….I’m sure the Quran is burned often as is the bible and the book of mormon……but it just doesn’t get the press.

I burned cookbooks last year…..Martha Stewart didn’t come after me! 🙂


yes….but you didn’t blow up the jetski.

Ox Drover

EB ROTFLAMO She may come after you now! I will call CNN and FOX news and REPORT you!!!!!! hee hee Thanks for the laugh.

I saw a cartoon this morning showing the Iman who wants to build the Mosque in NY and Jones burning a Q’uran and they were standing side by side, and across from them was this packed crowd of the rest of humanity, and someone in the crowd says “Why don’t you two duke it out, best man win, and leave the rest of us out of it?”

I thought that was a very good cartoon!


I took my two youngest children to Target and while I was parking the van, I had the thought, “I don’t think Jesus would burn the Qur’an” (any holy book for that matter). He knew how to operate in life, not getting carried away by ridiculous arguments.


Ahhhh No…..I may have been accused of being crazy….but blowing up the jetski? Nodachance!

Oxy….Bring her on!

Ox Drover

BJ, You are so right! Would Jesus have lead the Crusades? Would Jesus have burned someone at the stake? Would Jesus have done any of the murders and tortures that have been done in His Name? Of course not! And that is what makes it so SICK!

While the Old Testament of the Jewish and Christian Bible has a great deal of violence in it…taken in the context of the time it was written, the entire world was pretty violent! Religions were “taught” at the point of a sword or a burning faggot, and capital punishment was a very painful and public spectecal, however, the message of Jesus the Christ was to do away with that kind of violence and to embrace peace and love (a novel concept in that day and time!) Unfortunately, centuries later there are still those false prophets who try to ebrase HATE instead of love!

I am not as familiar with the writings of the Qur’an as I am with the Bible, but I don’t think so much that it is the BOOK itself or even the TEACHINGS in it as it is the 7th-century mentality of the rabid believers who think that “teaching” their beliefs at the point of a sword or a falling aircraft, or a suicide bomber, is acceptable.

The problem in the world today is the RABID “Terry Jones” type ministers and the RABID Imans (whatever their names are) who want to enforce their beliefs on others by FORCE and VIOLENCE. That is 7th-century mentality no matter who is doing it. Personally I think trying to “teach” democracy in Iraq and Afganastan at the point of an gun, grenade or knife is just about as “7th-century mentality”—and it ain’t gonna “convert” many folks to “democracy.”

In fact, with the reports of the “elected leaders’ there being as crooked as our own “elected leaders” at least some of the folks may have “converted” to our kind of “crooked democracy” of corrupt leaders! And WE (Americans) laugh at Mexico’s corruption in government. LOL “Ye who are without sin cast the first stone!”


Hey EB!xxx
Hope you are well and every LF blogger too!:) Havent been around much as have been working which leads to no more time to do anything but child maintenance (btw ooh hello little one being prescribed a small amount of melatonin at night making a small but welcome gear change in Chez Blueskies:D) and sleeping. But I think about you ALL all the time.

Yes I dont remember seeing the ‘EB face off with Martha Newsnight Special’… or hearing about your call from the Whitehouse to plead with you to not be so rash… PAAAARP!

Oxy that cartoon is right – it reflects the ‘word on the street’ my end too:)x

I hope the only thing that comes out of this from now on is more open dialogue between people – socipaths are great at divide and conquer/ stirring up fear between communities/creating obstacles to resolutions and playing on emotional needs …I hope its a big backfire this time.x

Ox Drover

Dear Blue skies,

Glad to see you darling! Missed you!!!! Glad you are working though! The “EB face off with Martha Newsnight special” will be tonight!!!! DON’T MISS IT!!! I’m putting my money on EB, after all Martha is an ex-con and we know how much quarter EB will give to an ex con! HE HEEEEEE


Yeah….tonight…..YIKES….that means I should be getting my bouncy hair on for the event!

you guys are toooooo much!



We live in a fallen world, no doubt about it. It would be nice to have Jesus on this earth today – he could speak for Himself, setting a lot of people straight, clearing up a lot of man-made messes.


Hello Oxy luv:)xxx I have thought about you a lot.x Your advice to me that I didn’t really get at the time has been of great comfort of late:)xx

I’m just about to get off to make sleep hay while the sleep sun shines but…

“the RABID Imans (whatever their names are)” – we had one hyped in the media relatively lately: Abu hamza.. we have another of this ilk he’s called Nick Griffin… and they speak for no one but themselves (yes they have dupes)…lets send them and this one to Spath Islandxx.

Ox Drover

Dear Blueskies,

I’m glad that my advice that you “didn’t get at the time” has been a great comfort to you. Sometimes we are not ready to receive the message that others send, and I understand that so well. There was a time when some people (on another blog) advised me to go NC with my egg donor and I could not even conceive of doing such a thing—with my mother??!!!

Yet, now, I now they were so right, but at the time I wasn’t ready to receive it, even though, in the end, it was my salvation for my sanity!

Yea, let’s round’em all up and send them to Spath Island!

((((hugs)))) and Keep in touch!


You are right with your many keen observations. This guy is a psychopathic attention seeker, and we are bathing him in it. I wish our media would be more responsible in what it reports as newsworthy. How about the jet blue attendent who pissed the passengers off then escaped the plane down the inflatable? He is a celebrity now. Now wonder many people do crazy sh*% these days. You get on the news, on Donald trumps show, then good morning America; next thing you have your very own reality show. This pastor is smarter than most of us. He has amassed a 1.6 million dollar estate, gets followers to work for him for free, and doesn’t have to pay taxes. I bet he has good insurance too. I certainly don’t view him as a celebrity any more than I do Kate Gosselin who exploits her children for fame and money. As for the religious aspect, it is a shame too because our country was founded on religious toleration; respecting the right that you have to worship as you choose.

Ox Drover


You are right—his own reality show! He needs one like the Rebel Mormon guy with the under age “brides” and Tony Alamo with the 9 year old “wives”!!!

“THE REAL PRISON!!!–Lock up for pedophiles!” Just put a camera in the corner of his cell and open the door and let “Bubba” in and film what happens—over and over and over!

Our country finally got around to “religious toleration,” but while the people who came here wanted it for themselves, they weren’t really interested in giving it to others! It wasn’t until a while after the Revolution that it became the law of the land. Still, I wonder if it is a FACT even yet.

Oddly, the US is being kicked by the Muslim world for not allowing a Mosque and yet, “there ain’t no churches in Saudi Arabia” In fact it is a CRIME to even preach anything else! So who is being the hypocrite?

Do you remember the flap a few years ago about some princess who ended up being beheaded for trying to elope with some guy? Can’t remember the details but caused a big international cry for mercy like that woman who is sentenced to be stoned in Iran now for adultery.

It just amazes me that these people who say their religion demands that someone be executed in as painful a process as possible and who have little if any respect for women as humans demand respect for themselves at the point of a “sword” (or a suicide bomb).

Ox Drover

The above link is to the riots and deaths caused by the media frenzy over the proposed “burning.”

This man is causing havoc and deaths (this isn’t the first death I have read about over this) and feels and pretends to be SO HOLY!!!!

UGH!!! It makes me grind my teeth!

I really don’t see why the people offended don’t just burn some Bibles in retaliation rather than get involved in a fight about it all where people die.

“Love thy neighbor as thy self” yep, “Pastor” Jones is really “preaching the GOSPEL” of WHO?

Frank Lee Speaking

blueskies says: “The media have been giant sociopathic enablers here” ”

Yep that’s because many of them are psychopaths themselves. Especially in the last 5 years or so. Journalism no longer really exists as such anymore. The corporate media is only interested in employing “journalists” these days who investigate nothing and print what they are told. The days of the investigative journalist is over. The editorial slant (ie: propganda) is king in the press rooms these days. Mainly that is just sensationalism and not pissing off advertisers.

I was reading the sunday papers here today. The boardsheet, “respectable” papers… The stories in them are just the same as the tabloids except the approach the hype in a different way. But it is the same circus with less obvious clowns.

What really facinated me was so many of the commentary and “lifestyle” stories were the journalists writing about themselves. Like what they had for lunch on tuesday which what person is the most amazing thing we could read. The narcissim was staggering.

Ox Drover

We aren’t the only country that has extremists or nut jobs like Jones! I think he would have done the same thing if he thought he could get away with that type of violent behavior.


THANK YOU! for this article……I knew this guy was a nut….and I told my classmates in Abnormal Psych that I felt he was at minimum a narcissist. He has that wild look in his eyes….dead…nothing really in there….I find him a very scary individual, and now that he is getting all this attention and becoming a celebrity there is a certain amount of power that goes with that, even if it is negative publicity, but he will find other fanatics out there that will take up his cause for hatred and intolerance.

The media can be truly hateful sometimes, to give so much attention to someone who is espousing such hatred, and apparently there is a backlash overseas from just this one guy, who is being seen as representing other “Americans,” when all he really represents is ignorance and mental illness….


What irks me is that this is considered a national story by the media. I live and work in New York City, and it might surprise you but nobody, I mean nobody, is even talking about that mosque here, or that guy burning Kurans, let alone “the role of Islam in American society.” We just want to know which Arab deli to buy our olives in.

This attention only encourages lone nut jobs like this guy. It legitimizes him.

The scary part is not that large numbers of people from Arkansas or wherever are talking about Muslims, but because such large numbers are plugged into some kind of unthinking knee-jerk response to a non-threat of any kind. It’s that hypnotic look in their eyes that says they’re unreachable.

I think the whole brouhaha was cooked up by Fox News or some uber-group to divide and conquer the American people. As soon as some idiot out there says “Kill the Muslims,” I am expected to jump in there and say “Love they neighbor!” Sorry, I can’t even get my butt up off the front porch for this dance.

Don’t we have better things to do? Like fix our economy or the deficit or unemployment? Like throwing out our “elected leaders” when they participate in sociopathic schemes like this?

Because it really is sociopathic, on a societal scale. Say this, push this or that button in people, and control them. I’m going to NC on the whole thing.


And by the way, I’m going TAWANDA on everybody’s ass lately. So far I’ve been completely polite to anyone with less power than me, but a complete asshole to those asserting unfounded power over me.

You’d be surprised how many people return your phone calls and e-mails when you’ve put it out there among others what narcissistic jerks they are. Never say anything nice about someone who doesn’t deserve it.

I just got an e-mail from a guy in Europe that I’ve been trying to reach for a month. Funny how that happens. And I’m never, ever going to answer his calls or e-mails again.

You’d be surprised how many compliments you get for your work when you threaten to withdraw it.

And you’d be surprised how much fun it is to piss someone off on purpose. A little queasy feeling, too, like out of my comfort zone, but I’m exploring that. I want it to be well within my comfort zones from now on to tell assholes to buzz off; maybe there’s some bodywork therapy for that. It’s some sort of physical response that I need to get over. I guess it’s there to keep us all from becoming total animals — or spaths — but I need it removed. Now. It’s not doing me any good.

I’m feeling so good, I’m considering visiting my father for Thanksgiving, even with my sister around. And arranging everything so that the moment things get weird, I’ve got a rental car and other terrific plans for the day, maybe even a date. To just walk out on these people. Because I have a right to enjoy my holidays, with whomever I please, without workarounds for others who wouldn’t give me the same consideration.

And if punishment is the way this world works, I can dole some out, too, even if it doesn’t come naturally to me.

Ox Drover

BTW Sister, that guy was in FLORIDA not Arkansas—we have enough nut jobs here in my state we don’t need him! LOL

Stories like that “”special interest” stories are found by some reporter who has an “exclusive” and then it goes viral—it is like the “Hollywood” stories about which star is getting a divorce or a tattoo. THE MEDIA MANUFACTURES most of the HYPE to go along with their stories. They should in my opinion “report the news that’s fit to print” not hype up some nut job.

There are several deaths already reported world wide as a result of this story. THIS STORY ACTUALLY GOT PEOPLE KILLED. How much hate did it stir up among people who won’t ev en be able to read the story that says he ended up not burtning them. All those pepo;e know is AMERICANS BURN MY HOLY BOOK.

Personally if someone wants to burn Bibles, let them, I’m not going to be offended because the BOOK is not the CONTENT and it isn’t the ONLY copy. And when my copy of the Bible starts to fall apart with wear it will most likely be burned anyway.

But theirs is a different culture, a different belief, the book itself is HOLY to them. Now they think Americans, all Americans are out to get them. Just like North Korea thinks all of the US and S. Korea have nothing better to do than find ways to nuke them.


Hey Oxy, I’m “the people offended.” And I’d be glad to burn some Bibles. My house, BYOB.

Ox Drover

Sister, I think we posted over each other.

On your second post, I hear your anger and your “gett’in fed up” at all the antics of family gatherings.

My solution was to NC the whole bunch, which isn’t much since there aren’t many members left. I’m an only child, my egg donor, my adopted son, my P son and my other son (just a jerk)

So Just my adopted son and me left that I interact with except through the occasional business e mail (business only conversation)

So much more simple for me. No hassle. No anger. No being on edge. I figure they are not worth the irritation, I’d rather be with people who honor me.


Sorry to hear about that.

Let me put it this way. My father honors me. When my sister isn’t telling him not to. I deserve to be with him, AND to have him honor me. No ifs, ands or buts. And I don’t have to be “good,” and I don’t have to be “nice.” I deserve it already. Or I leave in the middle of Thanksgiving dinner.

Let somebody else feel trapped in a bad situation for once.

Getting in touch with my inner sense of entitlement. Because I spent the first half of my life giving to everyone. Now it’s time to take.


Has anybody read “The No Asshole Rule”? I was especially inspired by the chapter that showed how to be an asshole, for fun and profit. It really does help a person move up in the world, if done the right way.

kim frederick

Sister, I am in the middle of queesy right now. Up to my eye-balls in a power struggle…someone is trying to dominate me using every manipulation tactic in the book, including threats, boundry violations, sarcasm, insults, and finally by claiming he cares about me.

I got 10 text messages this AM in the space of 30 minutes, in which I was threatened, called a slob, told how selfish I am, that I put forth NO EFFORT, and that I’m trying to run a third partys life. What kind of a person are you? he asked.

I have been studying manipulation, and was able to respond like this: (to first text) Why can’t you let go of the power struggle? I have. You have made yourself abundantly clear, and continuing to stir up the issue only creates an unhappy and unhealthy environment for everybody..but…do what you gotta do.

I then recieved the rest of the ten or so messages, at which point I picked up my phone and called him….no answer, left this voice mail: I have two small children who need my attention at this time…I can’t continue to be bothered with this. I’m turning my phone off. Have a nice day.

My God what power! To just say No. Not playing, not buying in, to move my goat so he doesn’t know where it’s tied up at.

What bothers me most is I confided in him about some of the things I’m not happy with myself for…and yup, two weeks later he’s using them as ammunition.

I’m trying to defuse the situation, not escalate it, but the more I try to defuse the more he escalates…turning off my phone and refusing to engage was a good move, and I would not have been able to respond witrh no emotion, if I hadn’t been reading up on how to avoid being manipulated.

But my stomache has been in knots all morning…this started at 7:30…..and I was sooo furious my hands were shaking…I am very bull-headed, and I can’t stand a man who tries to cow me…It’s a pattern for me to go head to head with one usually to everyones detriment because it creates un rest for every body…anyway TOWANDA one and all.

Ox Drover

Dear Kimmie!!!! TOWANDA for you!!!!

When you refuse to engage, YOU HAVE THE POWER!!!

DON’T RESPOND! This person who did this to you is NOT your friend. I’m sorry you shared with him/her when you thought they might be, and they will probably use this to try to smear you (isn’t that what they do?) so don’t discuss him./her with anyone else either if they bring this up.

Just a very business-like, “I don’t care to discuss John or anything he says.” if they say “Why?” tghen you respond, “I don’t care to discuss John or anything he says.” If they keep on, then say “It seems the only subject you want to discuss is John, so I am going to go do something productive.”


Sharing secrets with others is always a dangerous thing. Believe ME I KNOW—I’ve shared them with my egg donor, my P son and my son C—-but no more! I’m done sharing “secrets” I’m just glad I didn’t share any with the X BF-P.

You’ll be fine, Kimmie! You are a strolng woman. I’ve seen you grow a back bone since I have known you. I'[ve seen you go from crazy to sane and with good sense! You’ve seen me during the same time go from insane to more or less sane and I’ve picked up my skillet! So We’re ready for’em so let’em bring it on!!!! Yo0u got me and EB behind you!!! The three AMAZONS!!!!!

kim frederick

Thanks, Oxy. But my tummy hurts!! And I still have to deal with it later…this is pure power and domination driven…YUCK, YUCK, YUCK.


Get bored with this. Boredom is when we find something not interesting, not a source of good feeling or valuable education, and we just make a decision not to give it anymore attention or energy.

It’s a good and healthy reaction to have to an importunate (look it up; it’s great word) intrusion into our headspace or our ability to manage our own resources. It leads to feeling annoyed with the source, if that source doesn’t take the hint and go away.

The history is meaningless. What it’s important is what’s going on now. This is annoying and boring.

From that perspective, you can use your creativity to deal with it. My own inclination, if I were dealing with someone who wanted to throw that much energy into criticizing and analyzing me (for whatever reason), would be to say, “Well, you’ve certainly put a lot of thought into what’s wrong with me, and thank you for the feedback. When I have time, I’ll think about it, and possibly discuss it with people I trust. But right now I need to focus on other things, and I’d appreciate it if you’d stop calling.”

You want to pull in your boundaries. Make everything about you. You have a life. He’s not part of it. He may not have gotten the message, but he will, from your behavior as much as your words. Especially if you shorten your patience with him, cut off the time and energy you give him, and deliberately focus on things that are more important and serve you better.

You can do this. You already know the rules of engagement. No one gets in the door of your life, and no one stays, unless they are materially contributing to your happiness and wellbeing, and continually proving themselves trustworthy. You don’t have to put up idiots or predators. They are the exception, not the norm, and clearing the trash out of your life leaves room for better things to come.

Now I’m really out of here.



The only defusing is not engaging.

You don’t have to deal with anything later. Be “irreponsible,” leave town, whatever.

I have an e-mail from this idiot in Europe right now. He took me sailing. He bought me dinners. All expenses paid. Last summer.

And he’s a spath.

The point is, they predict you will follow rules of decent behavior. So don’t follow rules of decent behavior. I’m being indecent. I’m ignoring this person, when I “owe” him a phone call or e-mail.

We shouldn’t end up not returning these calls. The BEGINNING of the story is when we change our phone number and make sure it’s unlisted.

And yeah. That tummy hurting. I had it all day yesterday. It’s my conscience saying I’m a bad person. I’m going to get used to it until it goes away. I’m going to start dominating in my own world, until it feels normal.

I mean, Kimmie, you can heal today or next year. Your choice. Just depends on how long you stay “in” the game. You can opt out this instant.

Ox Drover

Dear Kimmie, (((Hugs))))

Listen to what Kathy [email protected] STONE WALL IT!!!! REFUSE TO TALK to them or anyone else about what they said. Just don’t discuss it.

You can do it!!!!! TOWANDA!!!! (Hey, here’s a cyber skillet to use to help you =0

kim frederick

Thanks, Kathy. Yes, I’m preparing myself for going gray rock in the garden of the potted plant…pretty boring, and NO EMOTIONAL ENGAGEMENT.

Thanks for the encouragement. It really helps to know I have support.


I think they were saying this whole story is boring. Not that you’re boring or your feelings are boring. But it’s a routine you’ve gone through enough times already. Isn’t it time to change the channel to a new soap opera?

How about some fun, Kimmy? How can you make this fun? Do something different to reflect the new you, having new experiences, not the same old ones. Do something that isn’t “you.” Tell the kids to sweep and mop the kitchen floor or something. That’s not mean; that’s fair. Something like that.

kim frederick

Oxy, I’m going to take that skillet and (invisably) hold it over my own head and threaten to boink myself if I start to react. I am going into shoulder shrugging mode, right here and now…you know, that’s when no matter what they do or say, you just shrug your shoulders and walk away, sometimes with a comment like, “suit yourself”, or ” I guess you gotta do what you gotta do,” Small insignificant shoulder shrug, here…nothing insulting or over the top…just boredom, and a whole lot of, “it’s not my problem”…attitude, and “, I’m powerless to help you with this, it’s up to you, finess. Yawn, well, sleep tight, I’m off to bed”

Wow…I’ve got my whole script written…it’s sticking to it that’s hard.


That’s what I’m saying. Sticking to it should be fun, not hard. Sure, there’s that feeling in the pit of my stomach that I offended somebody and should apologize.

But that’s just what my spaths count on.

It’s hilarious to plan and do something that asserts your kick-ass attitude in life. Pretend you’re somebody else — the kind of person who would “do something like that.”

I prefer the positive “I’m going to do this and they can’t stop me” to the negative “I’m not going to do this.” That’s a good script. My inner 3-year-old talking, and she’s kinda cute.

kim frederick

The feeling in the gut…what IS IT exactly…not exactly fear, not exactly anger or shame about anger, definately anxiety, not wanting a confrontation, intimidation, stubborn refusal, and down-right indignation, a reaction to the unknown…wanting to be NICE and have everything be NICE, and everybody be NICE, knowing that will not be forthcoming, Yes maybe it is fear….YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.

Self centered fear is the primary activator of all of my charactor defects….AA slogan.

If you want to bring out the worst in someone, just make him/her afraid. Aint that the truth. This is about one of us losing our sense of control in this situation, but he's the one that has escalated it to this degree…somebody has to lose. Stupid, stupid man. When ever anyone is trying to force anything, they are not at peace, but in chaos, and courting chaos and discontent.


No “boinking” yourself with a skillet. Nuh-uh.

Who told you you should be punished for simply turning off a phone?


He has to lose this one. And every one.

Great insights, Kimmie. Fear is self-centered. Yep. It masquerades as “doing the right thing.” It’s not even moral or ethical, if it encourages spaths.

And if you’re scared, growl back. I don’t mean call him up, but if you didn’t threaten to call the police or the phone company to report that last exchange, there’s something wrong here.

kim frederick

No, Sister, not for turning off the phone, but for reacting in an emotional way…for becoming engaged with the BS, or for letting him get my goat, and for entering into the debate with him…I haven’t done it yet, but I still have to deal with him, and I am a bit afraid he will get to me and I won’t be able to pull off the HO-Hum act, because inside, I am emotionally triggered…the skillet is a reminder of the consequences of reacting to him.

Ox Drover

Dear Kimmie,
Sweetie, you just think about the “love fraud mob” that is behind you (invisible to anyone but you) YOU KNOW WE’RE THERE and if you can’t think of something to say, say “what would Sister say? or what would EB say? Or what would Oxy say? And the words will come into your mind!

When I get into a moral question about “what is the right thing to do?” I stop and ask myself “I’ll ask daddy” Now daddy has been dead for 6 years in January, but I KNOW WHAT HE WOULD HAVE SAID FOR ME TO DO IF I JUST STOP AND THINK ABOUT IT.

I just found out this week that a woman I absolutely despised got killed in a car wreck—this woman who was my mother’s 3 day a week maid and driver had slandered me all over town to eveyone who would listen, told them I was trying to steal my mother’s money ya da ya da and on and on. (This woman’s dead father was a P as well and she was high in traits)

When something bad happens to someone you don’t like, and frankly someone you would enjoy punching out (the last time I saw this woman I wanted to punch her) it is natural to want to gloat a bit. Now I know it isn’t socially acceptable to do it publicly, but I’m talking about INSIDE YOUR MIND….and frankly I would LIKE to feel a little gloating, but Daddy would have told me to get over the gloating, so I am. Not because it hurts anyone else, but because it isn’t GOOD FOR ME to feel that way.

I do feel for the woman’s mother, who is a nice woman, who after the death of her first P husband married another one! I know she is devastated at the death of her only child and the injury of her grandchild.


Take a deeeeep breath and collect yourself.
Your doubting your abilities. You’ve done it before (as I recall a similar situation with this same person) and you can do it again.
You know where engaging lands.
Take the high ground and when he goes on attack…..don’t provoke.
He knows you ‘need’ something he’s providing……so he’s empowering himself to be the king.
Difuse him with ‘boredom’.
Key here is diffuse…..not provoke. (I’m not blaming you…but you can now control the outcome).

You are allowing him to have power over you…..he will see to it that YOU don’t WIN.
Look at your physical response and decide your not going to allow anyone to have that sortr of power over you.

I think your in defense because you are not being appreciated or recognized for your contributions. This may be driving your responses.
If you take the high road…..he’ll go to ‘another’ person… biatch….and soon your ‘contributions’ to making life work for all will be quickly remembered.

Don’t put the same puzzle piece back in the wrong spot darlen.
You already know it doesn’t fit!


Thanks for the clarification. Why do you have to “deal with him”?

Hey, I hate confrontation too. I don’t dig the smell of napalm in the morning. But I’m learning to enjoy the trip because if I put a little of the unpredictable in the mix, the rats scramble.

But why do you have to “deal,” and why can’t you pass on the next encounter? Or get someone to help you with it?

Lovefraud is being upgraded. Comments and forum posts are temporarily disabled. Dismiss

Send this to a friend