Penn State president charged in scandal

Pennsylvania prosecutors have charged Graham Spanier, former president of Penn State University and a trained family therapist, with covering up the actions of Jerry Sandusky.

Ex-Penn State President Spanier charged in Sandusky case, on Philly.com.

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another excellent point. He knew what spaths are intellectually, but he had to experience the spath betrayal in order to be transformed.

That is also what we all have experienced here on LF. We try to tell people about spaths, but they just don’t get it. It is something that has to be felt. Without the experience, you don’t get the transformation.

God became man, so that he could set the example of how to BE, even in the face of being persecuted by spaths. In the end, he didn’t forgive his persecutors, he let go and let God.

His despair, I believe, is evidence that he was truly human and not a god in human form. He was both, completely human AND God at the same time. A hard concept to grasp but it is also illustrated by the temptations in the desert where the devil tempts him to turn rocks into bread so he could eat.


Yes, exactly! There are people who accept our experiences and what we are saying about spaths, but they don’t really know know in their heart without having it actually happen to themselves.

Jezus reveals a bit of the “I know, but deep down I know it won’t happen to me” thinking. Even as it is starting to happen and in progress he feels strong, all until that moment of despair at the cross… which does utterly make him human. It is his most human moment in his life story. For one moment there he feels nothing but pain, and truly powerless.

In that moment he’s not just a victim in the eyes of others, but in his own eyes too. He completely transforms into the victim and experiences what it feels like to think of yourself as a victim.

His feeling of forsakenness is actually an exaggerated reality. He’s not totally forsaken: his mother an Magdalene are there to pray for him, some people tried to be kind as he carried the cross. But he’s in such a pain (and not just physical imo) that he even forgets in that moment that he’s not completely forsaken. This is a typical reflection of someone who feels they are victim.

yes, if he didn’t suffer as a human being would’ve suffered, the story would not resonate with us. He wouldn’t be ONE OF US.

I don’t think he thought that “it won’t happen to me” but I think he DID think that it would be unbearable and that he couldn’t make it when it did finally happen to him — yet he did make it, and he rose above it. That is why he is such an example for us to follow. We will make it too, as we are seeing in our recovery.

The whole point of the story, is not a “happily ever after” story, IMO. It is about suffering. Not avoiding suffering and not trying to avoid it.

I believe that it was my attempt to avoid suffering that created my encounter with the spath. I avoided suffering by refusing to see evil. I wouldn’t even go to scary movies.

Spaths avoid suffering by numbing their prefrontal cortex. (see the link athena posted on another thread). So they become spaths.

The problem I have with Jesus’ story, is that it isn’t really a good thing to tell little kids. It is too traumatizing and I think that it actually created part of my refusal to suffer. When I was a little kid, I just couldn’t bear to see what happened to Jesus and I used to imagine that I would have said, like Peter,”Hey Jesus, if you slip out the back door, they’ll never get you.” And Jesus would have rebuked me like he did Peter, “”Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; You are seeing things merely from a human point of view, not from God’s.”

I think it’s totally normal for humans to try and avoid suffering, Sky, in some way or another. I never had a problem with seeing Jezus as a human being though (more of an issue with seeing him as god incarnate) . But within the story, it eventually means that God empowered a human to judge over souls, instead of a God who never lived a human life himself. The Judean God demanded things from humans without ever knowing suffering himself, and then would judge them for it. Not really fair from the point of view of humans me thinks. So he has a human who is a favourite by the people for his miracle work, hailed as the new king coming as he enters Jerusalem, and then ends up devalued and discarded in the cruellest manner ever by almost everyone. He suffers the greatest fall any good soul can live through. Knowing pain and suffering in the cruellest way in his heart he gets to be a judge beside god, and therefore becomes a human judge, a judge with more keen understanding of suffering than god himself does. Humans end up being juged by another human who knows what suffering can do to people.

You are right though: it’s a story where young children hardly know what to do with. I didn’t feel attracted to the passover story until I was around 18 and it always tore me apart with the wrongness of it.

On the other hand I had the same wrongness feeling about the Little Mermaid and yet it was my favourite story: but I always tried to imagine or play another ending of it. And yet it was the sacrificial ending of it that made it so powerful. And I totally hated Disney for turning it into a happy ending. By then I knew it went totally against Anderson’s message: don’t pretend to be someone else, don’t give up your identity to attract a prince who never deserved it; and yet she makes the right choice… it’s wrong to murder the prince and his bride. It’s not because the prince is a stupid ass (and he is an ass if you read his superficial thoughts in the written story) that it gives her a license to end their lives.

“Knowledge” is what we get by LEARNING AND STUDY, “Wisdom” is what we DO with it.

Back to the “did Sandusky’s wife know?” question….

I will use for example, the wife of the guy who participated in keeping Jaycee Dugard captive for all those years…she KNEW and she participated. She goes to jail.

The wife of the guy who kidnapped Elizabeth Smart…she knew.

Are these women TRAUMA BONDED (Stockholm syndrome) to the perp and therefore “not guilty” by reason of that?

I WISH I KNEW the answer to that. Patty Hearst participated in a bank robbery with her kidnappers and she was obviously TRAUMA BONDED to them. The judge and jury sent her to prison for her part anyway. Because she was from a rich and famous family she got a pardon eventually. Personally, I think she should never have been prosecuted, but….what about these other women? Did/do they deserve to be prosecuted? Were they so under the psychological influence of these men that they didn’t really know “right from wrong?”

These are all questions I know that there are no definitive answers to and ones that I think about but can not come to a total conclusion on, but I DO think we need to have compassion for the victims of trauma bonding. I know that I have been “trauma bonded” to psychopaths myself, fortunately, not to the extent that Patty Hearst was and I didn’t rob a bank.

As for the compassion Jesus showed to the woman taken in Adultery and his shaming of the very men who were themselves guilty of the same or worse who were picking up stones to kill her, I think that was a lesson for us all in compassion and in our own “rock throwing” tendencies. None of us are “without sin” or are “perfect” we can only WORK toward improving ourselves, and it is a journey not a destination.

There will always be psychopathic hypocrites who will throw stones at others and crucify the innocent. There will always be con men and con women who will take advantage of others, there is already starting looting in NYC and NJ now….people taking advantage of the situation to steal and pillage from those who have lost so much.

But last night there was a news program on those who have been heroes, and who have put their lives at risk to save others. So the news is NOT all bad.


The point you made above about the “feeling alone and forsaken” by Jesus’s expressed comment from the cross “My God, my God why have you forsaken me?” is what many of us feel when we are betrayed by those we loved the most—-what the “public” and the “lawyers” and the “politicians” did to Jesus was horrible, but I think the worst pain wasn’t the physical crucifiction but the terrible betrayal of his family, his friends, his “brothers”

Not to compare ourselves with the horrible suffering Jesus endured on the cross, or the public humiliation etc but the feeling of ALONE-NESS that the victims of any kind of psychopathic betrayal experiences is to me the most painful part of it all. When I found LoveFraud, I found I was NOT ALONE any more. I wasn’t hanging there on that emotional “cross” ALONE….

I AM fortunate that I did/do have friends that are supportive, and my son D, who has been there through out all this, but I FELT alone until I found LF and realized that I was not the only smart, educated, strong woman who had fallen for a FRAUD. Who had been tricked and BETRAYED by those she loved, kicked while she was down and stabbed in the back. Devalued and discarded, stalked and threatened. But I also saw that just because of those things I did not have to give in or quit and I won’t. I’m still here!


You are right: the betrayal of loved ones is the cause for loneliness: this would have hurt him to the most… but then do not also forget that Jezus loved humanity itself, and it would have broken his heart to see humanity turn his back on him.

According to Merriam-Webster online dictionary, the definition of “scapegoat” is:

noun \ˈskāp-ˌgōt\

Definition of SCAPEGOAT

1: a goat upon whose head are symbolically placed the sins of the people after which he is sent into the wilderness in the biblical ceremony for Yom Kippur

2 a: one that bears the blame for others

b: one that is the object of irrational hostility

Examples of SCAPEGOAT

* The CEO was made the scapegoat for the company’s failures.


1scape; intended as translation of Hebrew ʽazāzÄ“l (probably name of a demon), as if ʽēz ‘ōzÄ“l goat that departs—Lev 16:8(Authorized Version)
First Known Use: 1530


This sort of makes sense out of the whole perception that the former Penn State President is somebody’s “scapegoat.” For whatever reason, “enabling” Sandspathsky’s crimes isn’t being viewed as criminal, itself. So, somebody’s got to be the “scapegoat” and bear the sins of the sinner. What utter bullshit. The only one that didn’t actively enable was the assistant coach that made a squawk about what he’d witnessed and was fired as a result of his conscience speaking out about something that was clearly WRONG.

They hhave NO SHAME


How obviously awkward! Indicted-Penn State President sits court side at school basketball game while awaiting trial on charges he hushed up Sandusky scandal

* The NCAA hit Penn State with a $60 million fine and voided 14 seasons of football victories for crimes that occurred under Graham Spanier’s watch

By Daily Mail Reporter

PUBLISHED: 09:56 EST, 20 January 2013 | UPDATED: 11:00 EST, 20 January 2013

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Ex-Penn State President Graham Spanier sat court side at the school’s men’s basketball game against Nebraska Saturday, making a rare high-profile appearance as he awaits trial on charges he hushed up child sex abuse allegations against former assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky.

Spanier told The Patriot-News at halftime that he was ‘invited’ to attend the game but wouldn’t say by whom. He then said he ‘wasn’t giving interviews.’ Nebraska narrowly edged out Penn State for the win, 68-64.

‘I was kind of surprised that he’s here since it seems like he’s been laying low for awhile,’ Penn State student Maddy Pryor reportedly said. ‘It’s just kind of weird.’

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