By | December 6, 2011 84 Comments

Please don’t feed the trolls

Periodically, people who admit that they are sociopaths stop by Lovefraud to cause trouble. Sociopaths usually engage in manipulation to gain something tangible, such as money, sex or a place to live. But sometimes they engage in manipulation simply to entertain themselves. From their twisted perspectives, what could be more fun than messing with the minds of people who are trying to recover from sociopathic “comrades” who have already messed with their minds? So they log on to Lovefraud and post comments.

Usually, they start off by portraying themselves as victims. Because Lovefraud readers are so generous about welcoming newbies, they, too, are welcomed. Eventually, however, their comments start becoming sarcastic or derogatory, and the sociopaths’ true colors emerge.

A particular sociopath made many appearances over the weekend, creating several identities. Although I kept banning this particular person, he figured out a way to get around the bans. I could not prevent him from creating new identities—I could only react when he started posting under a new identity.

Unfortunately, I am not at my desk all the time. (I try to have a life!) So, if these characters show up when I’m not looking, well, they continue until I come back to the computer and take action.

Therefore, if you suspect someone is a troll intent on causing trouble, please do the following:

  1. Click the “report abusive comment link.”
  2. Ignore the sociopath’s comments.
  3. To help other readers who may not realize what is going on, go ahead and post the link to this article on the thread where the sociopath is posting.

This is important. DO NOT ENGAGE THE TROLL. Remember, what they want is attention and entertainment. Do not call the person out. Do not post nonsensical comments. Please consider the person a nuisance to be ignored.

I am very cautious about banning people, for two reasons:

  1. I want Lovefraud to be an open exchange of information. Therefore, I won’t ban someone just because I, or another reader, disagree with him or her.
  2. Several times over the years, visitors to Lovefraud have been accused of being trolls when they were not. Generally what happened was that they commented on a post without telling a personal story of involvement with a sociopath first. Remember, there is no requirement that people talk about what happened to them in order to comment on Lovefraud.

We have one rule on Lovefraud: Do not disparage other members of the site. Feel free to disagree—lively discussions are terrific—but argue the merits of the ideas without personal attacks.

As for the trolls—their agenda is essentially an attack on all of us. I will get rid of them as soon as I can. But if they don’t get a rise out of us, sometimes they just go away on their own.

Thank you all for making Lovefraud such a wonderful healing community.

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Oh, wow, I didn’t see any of it this weekend. I’ve been in and out randomly over the past few weeks, and I’ve seen a few trolls come and go. It’s pretty pathetic that one would bother making so many identities.

Anyhow, I think this post is great and I like the idea of reverting to it when there is a troll in a thread. It’s hard to both warn newbies and not call out the troll. My instincts are always to protect other members when I notice one in here, so I have a hard time biting my tongue, especially if I see someone being toyed with. We’ve tried gardening, but I think there needs to be some sort of official protocol. I’m on board for this one.

Ox Drover

Thank you Donna, I totally agree that this is a great article to post instead of “going to the garden”! LOL ROTFLMAO

The trolls come here for one reason in my opinion and that is to GAIN ATTENTION and to DISRUPT the “sheeple” (which is what I’ve heard us non-psychopaths referred to, and to recruit traffic at their websites where they posture and brag to each other about the fun they have poking sticks at LF bloggers.

Many of them are so juvenile that they can’t even come up with a reasonable (and believe me “reasonable” in this group (LF bloggers) can be pretty wayyyyy out!) story of pity evoking drama! Others, like “Michael” seem to have evolved a bit of realistic pity evoking drama at least on a superficial level, though it doesn’t usually maintain itself for long and becomes pretty apparent that he “doesn’t get the music” even if he does know the “words.”

The “higher level” and more mature psychopaths don’t seem to want to come here for entertainment, as I would assume most of them have other and better cons than coming here to a web site, like actually having a REAL LIFE of getting sex or money or power out of their victims instead of spending their time here trying to disrupt this blog.

I imagine that most of the creatures who are willing to come here for entertainment purposes are pretty unsuccessful in finding and conning real life victims for financial or other gain, and the fact that they seem to be here most of the day and nearly all night makes me think they don’t have much if any job to go to either, so again, puts them in the class with the “less successful at conning real victims” psychopaths.

To allow them disrupt this site and cause distrust among posters, is to allow these lower level creeps power to destroy what you have sop lovingly built here.

By not feeding the trolls, we will starve them, bore them, and they will eventually give up.

Hahah Ox, you’re funny. Great points, and I agree with you that only spaths who failed at more rewarding cons bother trying to upset random people on the internet. You crack me up. We’re getting all the loser spaths. That’s redundant, but you know what I mean. ROFLMAO.


I agree wholeheartedly. I have a hard enough time keeping myself from engaging either willingly on my own, or when I am bated by the one I gave 11 years of my life to (literally). So when I see everyone entertaining one of these heartless asses by counter-attacking…I just think, (from my own experience) that this is the exact kind of frenzy they most enjoy causing. It makes them proud of themselves…and I think their passive-aggressive manner of projection is fed by bating others to FEEL what it is that they can’t. How many of you have gone on that teeter totter..between wondering if he was just a passive-aggressive personality or indeed a sociopath. For example: I KNOW that they can CRY when it suits them…and it is usually in one of their desperate calls for pity…but I had seen this in mine…BUT..I had also seen him tear up during sad parts of movies or touching documentaries…where he was actually trying to hide the fact he was choked up. Any thoughts? Please don’t think that I am still trying to find some excuse for his behavior…as IT IS OVER FOR GOOD. This is just something that just never fit the typical profile and if they have no empathy…how could this type of thing really happen…???


that’s true about some of them tearing up.
I don’t think I ever saw my spath do that at a movie. Only when he fake cried as part of a con.

What I have seen is my spath uncle choke up when talking about a soap opera he likes to watch. This evil entity cheated on his wife at the place they both worked. The humiliation, IMO, made her so sick that she died of cancer. His grown kids hate him. He had no empathy for the woman who dearly loved him but he cries at a TV soap drama. WTF?

My P-mom did something similar recently. She couldn’t care less that my brother and sister would like to kill me and each other in order to inherit everything. But she was describing a scene from a tv soap she watches. And she started to choke and cry. WTF?

I think that the spaths are just so shallow that they only experience tragedy in a dramatic but superficial way. It has to be over-the-top drama with nothing left to the imagination (that would require empathy). Then they cry because to them, TV is as real as real life.

In fact, my spath neighbor told me, “I don’t let things bother me, I do this by just pretending I’m watching a TV show, and it’s not real.” WTF?


I worked with a cyber detective recently who had my ex spath’s entire web service shut down. He was sending me harassing emails, and she contacted his email provider and ISP. The ISP company actually cancelled his account within 24 hours of receiving her harassment complaint and his internet was shut off.

I can dig up her contact information. She didn’t charge me anything for this. There are lots of cyber vigilantes offering this sort of thing. I did a google search to find her.


You wrote WTF in your last post a lot. Remember WTF = GTFO 🙂


My ex saw crying as a weakness. He would ridicule me when I cried. He ridiculed his son when he cried. The only time he acknowledged upset was when he was upset by something. Compassion? Pah, you’re having a laugh! Why would a spath cry at something that doesn’t affect him/her? They are the antithesis of caring. They couldn’t care less

Ox Drover

I don’t think that ALL psychopaths are COMPLETELY 100% devoid of empathy….anymore than we all have 100% empathy, there is a LEVEL of empathy that is “normal” and a level (sliding scale as it were) of lack of “normal” empathy and a scale of “more empathy than average/normal” so maybe SOME psychopaths have SOME empathy SOME of the time about SOME things. LOL

While most of the psychopaths that I have known can do a GREAT job of ACTING like they care, tearing up as if to cry, or Actually CRYING great wracking sobs, I have also seen several of them do an INSTANT CHANGE from tears to RAGE in a FLASH faster than Superman changing his clothes in a phone booth!

Once when I told a person I now believe to be a psychopath that she had to leave here that VERY day (I had been allowing her to stay here in her small motor home, parked on the farm) she went through a pity ploy complete with tears so “sincere” that should have melted the horns off a brass billy goat, but when that did not “move me” to pity, (and I observed it like I would have a spider spinning a web with my own empathy on HOLD!) she immediately dried up the tears and turned into a RAGING fiend who was telling me how I had ABUSED her and destroyed her trust, how I was being Unfair, mean spirited, and so on.

I observed the rage just as dispassionately as I had the pity ploy, and then she saw it wasn’t working and went right back instantly into the Pity Ploy and played flip and flop until I told her that she had ONE HOUR to pack her stuff and be gone and walked away.

Actually I was quite proud of myself over suspending my empathy for this woman’s posturing both as the poor pitiful victim, and as the raging angry scary person. Neither one made me feel guilty and in fact, I felt that in a way this woman had taught me a great deal because I was NOT emotionally involved with her. I had allowed her to come here out of empathy for her, but after I saw that she had NO INTENTION of helping herself, of supporting herself, but was instead, looking for someone to support her lazy arse, to be her victim, then I realized there was no benefit to her for her to stay here and there definitely was a down side to her staying here for me. I was not going to waste my time or energy dealing with someone who was not willing to help themselves. I did learn a lesson from that woman, and I’m glad that I did see what was going on before she “got to” me either financially or emotionally. Cost to me $150 + 3 months of time, LESSON, PRICELESS.


I thought that we all agreed that spaths want our emotions and that the best way to handle them is to not give them any. So I was surprised by the name calling and over the top panic that occurred on the part of the bloggers. It seemed like a hen house being invaded by a fox.

I couldn’t help wondering why people couldn’t keep it together when we have been discussing this for years. The reason, I think, is that we were invaded by several spaths, not just Sybil and his many incarnations. If any of you have investigated Sybil, you would know that he has 2 minions who like to join him on forums. I think that these 2 minions followed him here and pretended to be wounded by his presence. That made the other bloggers try to defend them by attacking Sybil. It’s Psyops 101: infiltrate the enemy troops. Soon our army lost its cohesion as the troops abandoned their primary mission: gray rock. They moved into attack mode to defend the “wounded comrads”.

This works because the spaths know that so many of us are “fixers” and “savers” who want to help everyone. We’ve discussed this before, it is unhealthy to try to control other people, we can only be responsible for ourselves and our behavior. The newbies have survived until this point, they won’t die if they interact briefly with a spath online. If they are giving out their email to the first troll that asks for it, they are likely already surrounded by spaths at home…WE CAN’T SAVE EVERYONE.

This was a real eye opener for me. I learned that people can’t be depended on to stay unemotional around a spath, no matter how much they’ve repeated it over and over again.

Remember, Gray rock is not the same as NC. It’s a form of interaction with spaths that deprives them of the emotional sustenance they require. Mentioning that you’re going out to the garden, is a good method for warning others. Then you can go NC or do gray rock. The reason this is so effective is because when you AREN’T SURE if you are dealing with a spath, you won’t offend a normal person by being unemotional. It’s a win/win.


panther – Good for you!

p.s I called the spath’s ISP. They said they would look into it. They didn’t call back, and for whatever reason I was never able to get through to their security division again – i tried and tried.


Sky – sometimes you say things that set off small bombs in my brain; and this is one of them: ‘It has to be over-the-top drama with nothing left to the imagination (that would require empathy)’

the connection between emapthy and imagination! one joy slaps forehead! of course they are connected!!! one has to IMAGINE how another feels; AND i think the presence of what is presented as imagination (love bombing, great care for our wonderful selves, VERY creative sob stories, very creative prince charming sotries, etc…) makes them look like they have empathy!

and taking this further – are very creative people also natually high in empathy? looking at 2 sources of info. i’d say so. One is the sheer number of people on lf who are writers, artists, communications folks, musicians, etc; and the other source is my understanding ‘personality dimensions’, a system i have used for years to understand team member dynamics. the ‘type’ (and most people are a mix of 4 types) who are most ‘creative’ are also the type who care most about interpersonal relationships in the workplace.

AND – you know a certain amount about how inventive my spaths story was – well, that’s one of the reasons I believed it, because i automatically draw empathy/ creativity/ imagination as a triad.

another lesson learned.

to a large extent I hide those things about myself now, because i don’t want others to see them. and weave me another poor creative abused creature story.



Good post. In my opinion, I think the answer to your question/s is because a lot (or maybe some) of people on here haven’t healed, including myself. I think it’s obvious, right? If we were healed, we wouldn’t let it bother us. We could go gray rock.

In the past, I hadn’t interacted at all with the trolls, but I did this time because again, in my opinion, Michael was giving some good insight. As much as I hate spaths, sometimes for me, it helps to hear how they tick. That’s just me. That’s how I’m wired. I apologize if I’m not the same as everyone else. But I have no problem going gray rock.


Donna and Oxy:
I am a newbie. Oxy thank you for your advice about the trolls this weekend. Michael came out again today with a different user name. Apparently was found out and got off rather quickly.

Good acquantances in all of this. Thank you. We need to be watching out for each other.



glad I said something you liked. When I post it seems like it comes out of my fingers more than my head. So I re-read that, and I thought, “hmm… yeah, there’s something there.” But please don’t hide who you are. That’s the rope. The rope that allows you to see how a spath would treat a vulnerable person. Use it like a fake hook. They think you are vulnerable, but you are actually very wise and knowledgable and they don’t know it. They expose themselves.

You can judge a society by how they treat the most vulnerable of its members. You can extend that to individuals to. It’s a rope.

Louise, excellent post. Please, never apologize for not being the same as everyone else. I like what you said because in fact, Michael is a perfect example of a spath you are likely to encounter on the street: he seems soooooo nice! And helpful too! ALL the spaths I encountered were that way, including my mother. That’s why they cause cog/dis. If they were stupid assholes like some of the ones who come on here defending spaths, then nobody would fall for it.

At the risk of confusing people even more, you should all be aware that often times the spaths will send in a crazed-loon pretending to be a spath. It’s called a FALSE FLAG ATTACK.

That’s because this sets a standard. From then on everyone thinks they can recognize a spath by comparing them to the crazed lunatic. Then the real spaths sneak in undetected. Don’t be afraid, you will recognize them by how they make you feel. They seed devisivness. Divide and conquer is spath 101. We just need to learn to listen to our guts. You know the truth, you just have to acknowledge it.

Ox Drover

Skylar, I am going to DISAGREE with you that Being boring, or “gray rock” as you call it, if it requires INTERACTION WITH THEM, is NOT a good choice on this blog. It might work under some circumstances., but here on the blog, EVERY TIME, that people interact with them it ends up in a WIN for the trolls.

People here are in DIFFERENT STAGES of healing, and different levels of knowledge about psychopaths and I have seen it time and time and time again when they come here people get triggered.

I got a ton of e mails from folks who were HIGHLY TRIGGERED by the presence of trolls here and by various bloggers interacting with them….and Donna having a “life” away from the computer and not being available 24/7 to delete the trolls.

Also Donna DID DELETE and block the trolls, but Michael came back with multiple IP addresses….I’m not sure how he was able to do that but he did.

Your comments about a “false flag attack” though, Skylar, I do agree with, because the psychopaths, working in teams can play a “scene” that sucks people into their webs.

Of course we try to be “welcoming” to new posters, and to accept their stories at “face value” which is all that we can do, but eventually it becomes apparent that someone is not on the up and up. Just because a poster seems to be “crazeeeee” doesn’t make it a done deal that they are a FAKE…believe me, I thought several posters were “crazeeee” (including you, Sky! LOL) until it became apparent that they were NOT crazee, just severely wounded.

Your story, Sky, is as out of the realm of reality as much as mine is….but I have personally checked out the National Transportation Board’s investigation into the death of the helicopter pilot that was interacting with your X-BF, and there is NO way that man could have died in that crash other than someone monkeying with the plane’s door hinges….of course there is no way, short of a video, of proving that your X BF was the one who monkeyed with it, but him essentially telling you that he did is not enough evidence to take to a court or a jury….any more than I can “prove” iin a court of law that my X BF burned the house of his previous GF, but I KNOW IT….

And OMG, talk about “crazee” How about One’s story? If I hadn’t seen the video myself I couldn’t have believed something like that was possible much less real? Heck, my own therapist thought I was a paranoid nut job and I had to take in son D as a witness and court documents to prove I was not out to lunch! LOL Even the attorney I hired to fight my P son’s parole thought I was nuts until he saw the evidence! So how can we know someone’s story is made up or imagined until they have been around for a while…??

Well, I can’t answer that question….I wish I could…one way is when they ADMIT that they are a psychopath or brag about it, no matter how many times they tell you that THEY are the exception to psychopaths being uncaring….BY DEFINITION FOLKS, psychopaths do not have much if any empathy, compassion or genuine care for others!

They may SAY they do but they are generally PATHOLOGICAL LIARS…

They want ATTENTION, they want to disrupt what we are about here, they want to side track and cause chaos.

Like I said earlier, I think most of the ones that come here to poke at the “sheeple” are the lower levels, immature, unsuccessful creeps and if we just as a GROUP UNIFORMLY IGNORE THEM….they will go away because they become BORED at not being “noticed” and given center stage.

If we get into arguments about “interacting or not” with them, or going off on a tangent of division, then they have WON. They have received the attention they crave and we have folded and given it to them.

Dealing with a psychopath in REAL LIFE we can do the boring, or the NC (gray rock or potted plant treatment) but on the BLOG we have to deal with them as a GROUP and PROTECT THE MORE RAW BLOGGERS.

Michael didn’t hurt my feelings one bit or scare me, but I am down this road a long way…and I am no afraid of him, but he scared the carp out of several bloggers here who pulled back inside their shells in panic and pain and I don’t want that stupid pr!ck to have that power.

Donna put the “report abusive comment” button there a while back after one of these troll attacks where several “incarnations” of Michael came on board. Let’s use it folks!



maybe i came on board at the wrong time, but to be honest i have been a little mystified at what goes on here? i was hoping for an informational,helping experience in some ways it has been some have been helpfull, but because maybe i have a mans name im still dodging rocks. I have had enough in the last 4 years! i sat today my vehicle was disabled getting fixed, its 20 years old! and while waiting my spath called and asked for some money, while they are driving the 2010 car i had purchased, and you know what i actually tried to figure a way to get it to them, but because i couldnt i was worthless, and yet at dinner time tonight they called exact words i havent had a good dinner lately where are we going.
my friends dont understand, but i read and think maybe things will change but the more i read it doesnt look good.
what is the best way to transition.


I suggest that you stop interacting with the spath until you have connected back with yourself. It’s hard, they pull our emotional strings, but there is a book, “Political Ponerology” which may help you.

Oxy, the whole point of my post is that we need to stop trying to control everyone else and control ourselves.

Everything we do here, today, on LF is about learning what they are, what they do and how to recognize them.

Running, hiding and sticking our head in the sand it not helpful to the veterans OR to the RAW newbies. We all need to be empowered, not wrapped in cotton wool.

BTW, here’s something for you to think about:
my spath walked away contentedly when I left him the last time. The times before, he stalked me and followed me, but this time was different. Why? Because he had left a trojan horse in my family and it made him feel quite content that he was still in control.

YOU KNOW about the trojans, having experienced them yourself. It’s surreal but it’s real. I believe we still have them here on LF and that’s why Michael is so self-assured and leaves without any adieu.

Spaths are ALL THE SAME. Each interaction with them serves to verify this fact. They are not imaginative or creative, though they think they are. They have one play book, and they can’t break out of it. Pathetic.

Rather than ban him, Donna would be better served to give him his own forum. Call it, “spath in the zoo” where you can take your children and point to it and say, “look at the funny spath!”

I’m sure he won’t like my saying it but, let’s just say that the only escape from the zoo is to become normal – it’s a choice.



Thanks for the compliment.

Oh, you are so right! Exactly. The spaths are so nice and cause the cog/diss. It’s maddening to me.


You say things sometimes that are so right on true for me that I swear you are reading my journals! Other times I totally disagree with statements you write but I am not intending disrespect, I merely have a different perspective.

For instance, the statement that we can “judge a society by how it treats the most vulnerable”.

I absolutely disagree b/c of the spathy mindset of those who claim to be SO vulnerable. The pity play comes immediately to mind. As does the bullying of others when I don’t want to give MY HARD EARNED money to those who won’t work (like the members of my birth family who are huge fat slobs that live in trash and know the tv schedule by heart.) or those DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK in the USA. There are LOTS of people getting the benefits I PAID FOR but I can not claim, YET I NEED, such as medical care, free housing, a car, child care, food, utilities. I live in an area that is KNOWN for providing feebies to illegals, and those are NOT people here to work, they are here for the benefits. Where I USED to live, the illegals were there to WORK and they were paid the same as anyone, NOT LESS. Are there people in the USA that take advantage of illegals? Yes, but that’s actually not the norm and there are many places where the illegals have undercut the local wage earners, drove them ALL out of jobs, and then when THEY controlled the work force, raised the rates back up and NO LOCAL can get hired.

I’ve seen A LOT of people CLAIM to be vulnerable and demanding and TAKING and if I object, I get that lecture of how heartless I am… and I’ve seen OTHER people who come from the same circumstances and do NOT claim to be vulnerable.

I think we can judge society by whether they want to take MY hard earned money from me and give to another who is just a whiner… and I have to do without. So who is vulnerable? Tell ya what it does to me… makes me regret working hard just so others can decide I didn’t deserve my paycheck, and take it and give it to some schmuck who took the easy road. Makes me feel overwhelmed at working so hard jsut so someone else can take it from me. Why bother to work to try to get ahead at all?

Bottom Line? The vulnerable that “society” takes care of is NOT what I would call vulnerable. A LOT of “vulnerables” is just whiners with their hands out (am seeing it a LOT now at Christmas time”.

That statement about judging society based on how they treat vulnerables is the SAME rationalization used by spathy people to take from the worker ants and give to the grasshoppers.

Just my perspective.


It is my belief that if Donna empowers an spath with his own forum, this one will be destroyed. It didn’t take long for this one to go dead when the invasion continued. And being “understanding” of him only emboldened him, esp when members DEFENDED HIM against those who wanted him gone b/c “He’s so nice so we should be Respectful to him?” What hogwash. Furthermore spaths do NOT give insight into themselves, such a statement is a fallacy b/c spaths by their very nature are a LIE from HELLO to GOODBYE.


excellent point, and I love that you made it on this thread: please don’t feed the trolls.

Think about what spaths do and especially spath parents.

They play favorites. they make you feel that life is not fair and it’s unpredictable. The golden child gets special treatment and doesn’t have to work as hard.

The government is like a parent. It cares for its citizens and makes the rules. But a SPATHY government is going to play favorites and skew the rules. The goal? to make you feel like crap – no other reason.

When I said the vulnerable, I meant the truly vulnerable: children and the sick. I don’t mean slacker spaths who pretend to be vulnerable.

But be wary, Katy. My spath has always been the biggest parasite. He only worked as long as he had to and then he collected unemployment until it ran out and then he worked… etc… In between, he sold drugs, as he later admitted to me. But then, near the end of our relationship, he decided he was a “conservative”. YEP! People shouldn’t get welfare or be taken care of because it’s not good for them! that’s what he said. Then he said, “you know, most people, if you give them a hand out they won’t work for a living, that’s why it’s better not to help the poor. Myself, for example, when I was collecting unemployment I refused to work because it was easier not to.”

I looked at him in shock, “But spath, all you’ve ever done is sell DRUGS!!!! What do you mean?”

“well selling drugs is work.” was his response.

OMG. my head was spinning.
But you know, that’s the logic that the evil people have for not helping the vulnerable. It’s a false flag attack again. By becoming “vulnerable” when they really aren’t, the spaths create a situation where nobody wants to help those that need it.

Only by gaining insight and knowledge can we separate the wheat from the chaffe. Then we can help the children and the sick. Additonally, we can teach a man to fish rather than give him a fish. It’s not that hard to have wisdom. You just have to want it.


The cyber detective worked with me and explained to me how to access an email’s source code. She had me send the source code to all of the harassing and rude emails from him, including the one where I said: Leave me alone. Your emails are bothering me. Please stop contacting me….and of course then all the emails he sent after I said this.

She said that since I had told him to stop and then he hadn’t, it was a cold case. She took all these email headers and put them into her complaint as evidence. I think that is the key took for us. We need evidence. Often we are going up against someone who changes their story to suit the moment and will charm the other party into thinking we are the crazy lying person.

Do you want her info? I bet she’d help you if you explained a little about what happened. She is cool. She is a no-nonsense, tough woman who gets a little angry when she hears that someone is being victimized, especially men. I don’t know what she’s been through, but she is some version of a cyber-spathinator.

About last night’s event, for those of you that missed it, that particular one from the weekend came back again. He was out within about 5-10 minutes. Really. I reported each of his comments the instant I saw one, and I had been right here “refreshing pages” to respond to people when he showed up. It really was a 5-10 minute ordeal. Hitting that report button seems to work really well when Donna is around.

I wanted to mention one other thing, though. I think that after we get rid of them, from now on, no talking about them. I am sure the person comes here to see what we say after they are gone. This guy even said he was flattered to have an article written all about him.

They do not exist. That’s what the atmosphere should be in here. It would be harder for a newbie, but at least the rest of us could agree on this. Even after they are gone, we don’t waste our breath discussing them further (of course I just did, but I want to clarify this first before committing to it as a group).

“well selling drugs is work.” <—–AHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAH

He is like a stand-up comedian on accident!


Sorry can not agree panther. I am by nature an analyst. I have a need to understand myself and by thinking about my responses, I get insight. If YOU don’t want to talk about the spath, that’s your decision and I will respect your choice, but I make my choices based on my healing and ignoring has never been a good strategy for my healing. Awareness and growth work better for me.


Yes Skylar,
Your spath did what mine did, he claimed a certain value system that he didn’t actually believe in order to control others. The day my husband stood there in my kitchen and admit he was going to do a wrong that he know would seriously harm me and destroy my well being, and could not or would not give a reason why, was the day I realized that he didn’t have the value system he always swore he had, the one he swore we shared. I realized then that My husband did NOT believe in self responsibility but believed in getting what he wanted NO MATTER WHAT. HE HAD TO “WIN”. That was his moral belief system. Not connecting to his partner, but using his partner to “WIN”. His belief system was not used to EMPOWER people to achieve their dreams, his belief system was used to CONTROL people into restricting themselves while he took advantage of their moral values. They would NOT lie and mislead in a business contract. He did. They went according to the SPIRIT AND the word of the contract. My husband PARSED the words and it depended on the meaning of the word “IS” as in his targeted victim IS screwed.


as i have said before his name is a trigger – i dont interact with it – but i can throw rocks if I chose or click the x button and come back later – for those who want to pick his brain and get insight from what makes him tick – that your choice, I can skim over or change threads – I dont always agree with everything said here – but I respect freedom of speech – if I see someone chattin with a troll – i just make a gardening comment as a hint or warning – if they chose to interact thats their business wether I agree or not.


you kill me! I love your insights!

me too. It’s a choice we each have to make.

When I first learned about spaths, I realized why they exist: as an example of how not to be.

They are controlling and demand that everyone agree with them. I can only choose for myself. And everyone else must do the same. Hopefully, we can come to a consensus but ultimately we teach by example.


I have such respect for you b/c you seem to say what I think but you use far fewer words (SO admire using few words.). I use more words b/c my spath used to parse words so much that I try to explain so that my words can’t be parsed, but of course, I know they still can be… but that’s my explanation of why I ramble so much. Maybe I should just apologize for the run on sentences and shut up!


thank you Katydids – i have always been a man of few words – so I try to get to the point. nuff said gnite…hugz


connecting back, you dont realise how far away you are from yourself and family, i had all but stopped comunicating with my family, it drove her crazy she always stated my sister was trash and my mother was bad also, now i think about it it was all about the control


Hi Skylar
It would be nice to hear from you, if only just a little bit.
I have been wondering if there’s a way I could send you one or two of the songs I’ve written recently.
I have continued to play the guitar every now and then by myself, it’s the only place where I seem to find
something, though most of my compositions are sad, still I get a little comfort, I guess it’s a way to release for me.

I have a small tape recorder, the songs are only acoustic. Maybe I can find a way to put the recording onto
a file and send the file to you if you’re interested, if not I understand,I’m not even certain if I can transfer it
to the computer.

I’m not trying to change your mind on anything, and I have no interest in arguing with you, and I’m not trying
to find you and there’s nothing I want from you.


I can’t help wanting to reply, “But Spath, who would you send them to if you had actually managed to kill me? Send them to (thecrazyhusbandstealing neighbor you were screwing).

But I won’t.



I didn’t realize he was still contacting you?


We need panther for the translation. Oh my. It’s been carefully put together, so that even if you do not want to receive the file you feel compelled to answer with a ‘no’. But all he can do (I suppose) is send the file to you, if he ever does, and you can ignore it like everything else.

“I’m not trying to change your mind on anything, and I have no interest in arguing with you, and I’m not trying
to find you and there’s nothing I want from you.”

Words don’t speak with the actions:
1) he wants to change your mind about no contact
2) he does want something from you: attention
and I’m sure he does want to argue with you and find you.



I hope he stops contacting you. He has nothing but malice to offer and hopes you’ll take the bait. To bad he doesn’t know you are now the “Spathinator”. He should be running for his life!


Sky ~ keep posting ON HERE what you would like to say to him. In that way you get it out and we all SO appreciate the feelings behind the words.

“why they exist” – “as an example of how not to be” – RIGHT ON.

hugs – MiLo



OMG! He has the same spath speak as my ex! He is a dangerous preditor, make no mistake about that. Burn the letter, how the heck did he contact you? Hasn’t he been arrested yet? Sheessshhh.

It’s the pity play, manipulation, dual meaning phrasing, double bind crap that is all in the spath playbook. Delete it, burn it, get rid of it and rid yourself of any contact with spath.

Has he fixed the inside handle in his car yet? Probably not. Preditor!!!!

Ox Drover

Sky, I think his message is definitely a ploy to get you to fall for the sentimental “love” ploy—the SONG I WROTE—excuse me while I Puke. Of course these songs if they do exist, would have a message of Sentimentality and try to evoke your past love for him. Excuse me, I think I’ll keep the bucket by my side.

It would be nice to hear from you, if only just a little bit.
I have been wondering if there’s a way I could send you one or two of the songs I’ve written recently.
I have continued to play the guitar every now and then by myself, it’s the only place where I seem to find
something, though most of my compositions are sad, still I get a little comfort, I guess it’s a way to release for me.

Now he comes in with the PITY PLOY “Its a way to release for me.” BARFF

I have a small tape recorder, the songs are only acoustic.

Then another pity ploy, “I’m broke so I only have acoustic and a small tape recorder (read: cheap!)

I’m not trying to change your mind on anything, and I have no interest in arguing with you, and I’m not trying
to find you and there’s nothing I want from you.

BOY, that’s a BIG FAT LIE! “I’m not trying to change your mind” What a crock of carp!

“I’m not trying to find you”—another big FAT LIE!

“there’s nothing I want from you.”—- And the FINAL big FAT LIE!

Of course he is trying to find you, there IS SOMETHING HE WANTS FROM YOU….and he IS trying to change your mind about him.

Sky, for whatever good it will do your feelings…..HE IS BOTTOMING OUT SOME WHERE, HE IS ALONE AND DESTITUTE and going through is “black address book” reaching out to anyone and anything he thinks he will be able to suck back into his web, much as a spider tries to lure victims into their web.

You talked about how now that he is getting older and not so much a “hunk” any more and that is the thing, when they are younger and better looking just their looks and charm alone can lure victims….but as they get older they are not able to lure young and unsuspecting victims into their webs any more. They no longer have the physical beauty to lure one, they haven’t got the money and status to lure one, and they get desperate.

Remember how Hens talked about how his X had nothing except a bag and box full of possessions. Well, that might work for a while when you are younger, but it is not going to work forever. When you are old and ugly and have nothing except the clothes on your back and a box or shopping cart of possessions, you are not exactly going to find it easy to lure victims with more to offer than you have….which is nothing. Since of course, Spath is so narcissistic, he is not interested in the ones like him,, old, ugly,, and down and out, so he wants a higher quality victim. LOL

if it is any consolation, Sky, the creep must be pretty down and out to be going back through his black address book of former victims to try to pick out someone who will BITE at his sentimental bait, which in fact is nothing but a piece of OBVIOUSLY ROTTEN CARP! (((hugs))))


Thanks everyone, Been thinking why we feel compelled to respond and I think maybe it’s because we never get closure from a spath. I keep thinking that if I could just kick him hard in the behind, I’d feel better and he would “get it”. Truth is, NOTHING can give us closure with a spath because they NEVER “get it”. They don’t have the capacity, so we are left with this “dangling” feeling. They know this too.

Louise, this is new. He hadn’t sent me anything for a long time.

Darwinsmom, EXACTLY. The words are 180 degrees to his actions. Sending a message inherently means he wants something : for me to read it, for me to respond, for me to acquiesce to his request. LIAR.

MiLo, It really DOES help to post here. If there is any closure to be gained, it comes from knowing that other people will benefit from reading through his lies.

HopeforJoy, Thank you for reminding me about the broken car door handle. The slime from that memory was enough to break the spell!! I imagine how many young women he has locked in his car and hurt. I don’t even want to respond, not even if it meant that I COULD kick his ass. My foot would get slimed.

Oxy, you are so right. He’s only going to get uglier and more disgusting each year because there is nothing there but a shell. He had to leave because his mask fell off. His new mask is that of the lonely, forlorn man who can’t get over his ex-wife who left him. He told me, when I left him that he is not interested in dating or finding someone new. That’s because he can’t find any pretty young things and he knows he messed up when he left the best thing he’s EVER had going for him. Not talking about a love-relationship here, I’m talking about the best MASK/BEARD he ever landed: ME.

I was everything a predator could hope for in a “front-man”. Respectability, likeability, kind and cute (enough). I was his crown jewel and he despised me for it. But now he misses it. Tough shit.



Probably contacting you because the holidays are here. I guess even the spaths get lonely.

I agree about there never being closure. I thought I had it, too, but I never will.


sky – i think the compulsion to respond is about power and what we learn is power in society. they tear shit away from us, most us are left a wreck, feeling powerless for whatever time we do.

we are taught there are three ways to express power: fight, flight, and separate emotionally.

the third has the self as the locus of control. the first two have the locus of control in the other. the other who has wrecked us and left us feeling powerless.

i think what we want when we say ‘closure’ is ‘power’; the power to move on and heal, and one of the ways we are trained to get there is to kick someone in the ass. with spaths it makes NO difference to them – and as long as kicking them in the ass is soley for our benefit it could be considered. i think we get caught because we WANT to affect THEM, BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE EVIDENCE THAT WE HAD AN EMO EFFECT ON THEM…AKA THEY LOVED US.

Ox Drover

Sky, you are right! the “pickin’s are slim” for him now…and the old saying about “a rolling stone gathers no moss” is so true, because they are forever jumping from one relationshit to another one, and moving around, not planning for tomorrow, as their “natural assets” of looks, sexy, youth, etc go the way of all of us as we age, they have NOTHING TO REPLACE THOSE THINGS WITH….nothing solid and good and lasting, like love and friendship….just old age and anger and their narcissistic disappointment.

Just visualize him as an old troll lying under a bridge with a bottle of cheap whiskey (empty) and dirty and in torn clothing, hungry and dirty…..and that is the closure you need, it is all the closure you will be able to get, but it is probably not far from right! (((hugs)))) You don’t have to kick him in the bawls, he is his OWN WORST ENEMY!


LOL! Ana, I missed your post up there.
shhhh… nobody knows. 🙂

It’s true though that by the grace of God, I escaped his evil machinations. I swear to you, it was not by my wit or cunning, it was God’s grace alone that saved me – that much is so obvious to me. When the shit hit the fan, miracles began to appear around me.

ahhh! duh! of course. Tis the season for spaths to plot. This season is all about emotion and loving ties. It’s also the season most people commit suicide. So of COURSE he thought of me. DUH!! Thank you for that! Sometimes we get so close we can’t see the forest for the trees.

Oxy, He doesn’t drink or use drugs. He’s a control freak. He drinks a lot of coffee and I suspect he has done speed or meth, when he needed endurance for his exploits. He is super FOCUSED when he is pulling a con. But yeah, he is his own worst enemy because the predator is most vulnerable when he’s focused on his prey.

that’s such a great way to think about it:
“we are taught there are three ways to express power: fight, flight, and separate emotionally.”

I’ll take door number 3, thankyou.


Hey Skylar….I want to say good for you for not responding. REALLY good for you. One step nailed it with the fight, flight, and separate emotionally.

No use fighting something that isn’t currently hurting you, or that you can’t change. Flight, you did that long ago. Separate emotionally: we have to do that every time they try to game us.

Big smile, Slim

Ox Drover

Yea, SKY, good choice, door number 3! I also believe that it was the grace of God that saved me, because I sure as heck fought like the devil to NOT BELIEVE WHAT MY EYES SHOWED ME…..even after the scorpion stung me I was saying what a sweet pet he was! LOL

Your X doesn’t have to be a drug addict or a drunk to be his own worst enemy, just his life style is enough for him to be his own worst enemy.


sky – interesting that our instinctive reactions to danger are the same reactions we have to trying to retrieve power. (in fear it is fight flight and ‘freeze’ – which is the other side of the coin of separating emotionally from them; it is separating emotionally from ourselves. again, it comes back to where the locus of control/ power is…. them or us.



You are welcome. I hope he leaves you alone now.


Aw, I missed it all! I was too busy studying for finals. 🙁 Sounds like casual trolling, though, as they were found out quickly. I guess everybody here should be thankful it wasn’t worse, like a spath that actually keeps up a facade on here and preys on everybody, instead of just pestering. Has that ever happened on here? Somebody who acted like a member for months, or longer.

Still, I’m not going to be too suspicious of new members. 😀

Ox Drover

Dear Near,

Yep, we had one a few years back that was here for months before she outed herself and started berating others….she finally exploded on the blog and Donna banned her a couple of years ago. Had a guy who came here crying about how his GF had abandoned him after he had done so much for her and kept wanting to write her a letter—finally admitted he wanted the letter to –get this!–CONTROL her! LOL He went away on his own I think…then there were other pesky ones here who insisted on posting just creepy things, but they usually either out themselves or just fade away.

Don’t be “suspicious” of new members, just accept them as what they present themselves to be, but if they come here CLAIMING to be a psychopath, just believe them. LOL

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