By | June 28, 2012 40 Comments

Sadistic woman charged with abusing 6 children and their father

Maria Gonzales Esquivel, of the Seattle, Washington area, was arrested last year and charged with physically abusing her housemate and his six children over a period of years. The state’s Department of Social and Health Services received 17 complaints from the children’s counselors, teachers and others close to them, yet did nothing. Now, attorneys are suing.

Read Lawsuit: Kids left in ‘house of horrors’ for years despite complaints to state, on

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I am so happy that action is finally being taken against the agencies that are supposed to protect and help children.

Some of you know that after years of battling with my son’s non-custodial P father for child support and health insurance, I finally wrote to President Obama at the height of the healthcare debate, before it became law, to ask what should custodial parents do when non-custodial parents fail to provide the court-ordered health insurance for their children.

Eighteen months later, I received a letter from the US Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, stating that because of my letter to President Obama, they were going to address the issue.

Long story short, we went to court last July where, once again, the P was ordered to provide health insurance but not before he had submitted his claim to the court that we, including President Obama, were harrassing him. (Yes, he actually put that in a court document. Is that a P for you or what?)

Yesterday, I found out that the P has once again terminated my son’s health insurance and did so at the end of March of this year, which makes it less than 8 months after the court order was signed.

That in itself is infuriating, but my state wants to close my case because it feels it doesn’t need to be involved. They sent me inaccurate information about the child support arrearages (not a huge sum now because I am working, about $300, but we’re entitled to it so why does the P get to keep the child support?) and didn’t seem to think that mattered or was a big deal. For a single parent, $300 can be a huge amount of money especially if he or she is out of work. They also told me that I can go to the child support enforcement people in the P’s state to get them to make him comply. I can? Like I’ll be a priority before all their instate parents? Also, they completely ignored my repeated requests for a hearing not to close this case.

Adding insult to injury, there is a Social Security law, which I discovered about an hour ago, that provides money to the states for ensuring compliance with child support obligations.

So, the P gets to not pay what he is supposed to and not provide the health insurance for his son that he is supposed to (and can well afford-money isn’t the issue. It’s pure P-ness.) and my state gets money from the federal government for doing what exactly? Closing our case?

So far, I have sent out two letters, one back to my state’s child support enforcement, and one to the P’s child support enforcement assistant director, who said they would act because of my letter to Obama.

Tonight, I am finishing up a complaint to our local American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) office because, among their different areas of interest, there is one for due process and it includes government agencies doing what they are supposed to do for citizens.

What is particularly remarkable about this chain of events is that this is happening on the day that the US Supreme Court upheld Obama’s healthcare law.

I know that some here are interested in advocacy. I certainly am.

I noticed on the local ACLU’s chapter’s website last night that they need volunteers. I am going to volunteer because I want to get the word out and who knows who I would meet or what I will learn.

My suggestion is if you have the time and interest, volunteer for them as well. Inform them about Ps. Let them know how the courts screw people over who are trying to protect themselves from all sorts of abuse from Ps.

I sincerely hope with what happened with the Sandusky case, this case with the lawyers suing the child protective agency because of that the Seattle woman being so abusive to her children, and maybe my little case against my state not doing what it should, that all these cases will start chipping away at a mountain people thought we could never move.

I suspect that what my state is trying to do is close the case because my son is over 18 and his father is out-of-state, which means extra effort on their part. I’m pretty sure it is a cost saving measure because the state is hurting for funds and is making cutbacks everywhere.

Not really an issue because my son is still in college and thanks to Obama’s healthcare law, parents are supposed to provide health insurance up until the child reaches 26 as long as they are in college or are out of work.

The squeaking wheel gets the grease. If there is anything that I’ve learned from dealing with so many Ps it is to no longer be nice and “understanding;” it’s to speak up for myself.

Ox Drover

I read this article, well part of it anyway, I couldn’t stand to read it all, and I almost puked!

It just makes me rabidly angry when I read things like this where the child protective services have had notice and done nothing…and the reverse where they have gone in and taken kids away like they did to G!S’s son and given them to the very abusers.

I agree with her comment about standing up for ourselves and making some noise doing it. It doesn’t pay to be passive in dealing with psychopaths.


Actually, in my case, child protective services were the ones the most on my side (except for one screw-up, and I received an apology for her failure.)

What happened with us is the judge didn’t do what she should have done, i.e., called protective services (there is hotline to them in every judge’s chambers) to determine what they knew about the situation.

If the judge had done that, she would have found that DCYF had already investigated, determined the Ps’ allegations were unfounded, and had identified the Ps as the problem and attempting to get their hands on my son.

Since the judge didn’t make that call, that is exactly what she did – yanked my suicidal son out of psychiatric facility and hand him over the Ps.

There is something called “judicial immunity” which means no judge will ever be held responsible for making a wrong call. They can be investigated for committing crimes, but making the wrong call in a case like ours, that’s overlooked.



I’m sorry for what you are experiencing with the “judicial” system. What a joke it can be at times. But it’s refreshing to hear that you are advocating for yourself.

On Monday, I spent close to five hours with my younger sister trying to support her while she attempted to get a restraining order to protect her and her three children from her husband, a man I believe to be an N. The advocates that helped us with her paperwork understood him to be a disordered individual and thought she would have no problem getting the order. She went to see the judge and was back in a few minutes, looking so defeated and shaking her head no. Her husband had rolled her arm in the window as she attempted to unlock the door to take out her son’s shoes that he took to be spiteful. He started reversing. She still had bruises on her arm in court! The judge said “Didn’t you see him rolling up the window?”

The paperwork indicated much more than just that incident, including racist comments toward my mixed race nephew and accusing him of “sucking d*ck for drugs,” because he was sick with strep throat (and BTW, not a drug user, but a fitness nut!). There were pages and pages of blatant psychological abuse. Her children have been begging her to leave this man. I encouraged her to get the restraining order. And the legal system did not help her, but allowed her to feel more desperate and hopeless. It’s crazy making to me.

Anyway, I’m still encouraging her to go ahead with her plans of leaving him. He’s moving out, supposedly, but continues to stay at the house some nights, in a different room. But he’s doing things like putting mouse traps in her son’s bed and hiding or taking things from them. It’s disgusting that she isn’t afforded any protection from his behavior. I’m concerned for my poor sis; she’s working full time and has three children, two of them with mental health issues that demand a lot of time and energy. I haven’t seen her smile in a long, long time.

I told her about this site and she has been reading some of the info. I told her that even though we don’t think her husband is a S, the effect of his abuse is similiar to what many of our community have experienced and that through reading the articles and comments she may identify and find some healing. I continue to stand by her and hope that things will improve for her.

Ox Drover

Marie, it doesn’t matter if he is an N or an S or a green or blue….the thing is that he is MEAN TO HER….doing things to hurt her. No, I repeat NO NORMAL PERSON does that kind of thing. The label does not matter, he is ABUSIVE and I hope she does come here and read. Please tell her to do what ever she has to do to be save and not worry about her Stuff, just go to a shelter if she must to be safe.

Also encourage her to call the DV hot line and get some advice besides your support. She needs all the help she can get. God bless and keep you all safe.


Ox Drover,

He’s a total a-hole. I knnow that for sure. She is planning on getting back into counseling. I know that I alone cannot be her sole support system. We have such terrible parents, and she feels like she cannot trust or reach out to anyone. So, for right now, I am doing my best to be supportive. When I get my place next week, she and her children are more than welcome to stay with me if they need a safe place to stay. I have a card for a DV agency here that I was going to use if I needed it, but I didn’t think to pass it on to her. I will, though. Thanks for all of your kindness and support. She did come here and read some of your comments, because she was quoting parts of your story to me! Hopefully we can be a positve support to one another.


Being a total a-hole is one of the defining characteristics of a P.

No. Not really. But is should be.

Marie, I, too, hope that your sister will hang out with us for a while. She doesn’t need to comment. She can just read and think about things if she’d like.

It’s very good for you to realize that you cannot be her sole support system. Have you told her that? It can be said kindly and with encouragement to share the burden.

Best of luck.

kim frederick

Why don’t “we” think he’s a P? He sounds like a P to me.
I’ve been doing some more reading on trauma bonding, and this wanting to focus on the good qualitys, and the good stuff the abuser has done, is often a symptom of trauma bonding.
I would be interested what the LF community thinks about the father, in this artical, who allowed himself, and his children to be abused by this sadistic bitch.
Really, LF. What do you think? Is he a horrible excuse for a person, to “allow” this, or, is there really a psychological condition called. “trauma bonding”.
I continue to learn and study, and I personally believe there is….but what is it, that led this man and his, was it six children into this house of horrors? Honestly. Do you think a grown man with all his cookies would think this situation was better than homelessness or going back to the x?
Just curious what the rest of you think.


the article says: ‘Her parents and siblings moved into Esquivel’s home two years later.’ Not sure what the situation really is – were some of these kids there as her foster children?
Her ‘parents’???

kim, we have all been incredibly stupid and trauma bonded or wouldn’t be *here*. I really need more info about this situation, before i can make any kind of judgement about him. I couldn’t blame him anymore than i would a woman in his place. I can’t help but think how abused he must have been to enter into that house.

don’t need anymore info to make a judgement about the scary spath woman though – holy hell! nor the countless times those kids were let down by the services that should have provided them with nominal protection.


Kim, great questions.

I think, absolutely there is such a thing as trauma bonding. I think this is what went on. The news article did not report on any of the woman’s nicer qualities other than to say that her housemate/partner thought she was possessed but a “good person.” (something like that)

Those of us who have been in intimate, sexual relationships with Ps know how seductive they can be and how good the sex can be. Perhaps that is what was going on. I know I’ve had that experience. It does cloud one’s judgment. At least, for a time.

I’m not “letting him off the hook” or condemning him. I really can’t. But those are very interesting questions you posed. The way the article was written, it sounds so OBVIOUS that this was a bad situation. Especially because of the children. That somewhat tips it for me, as that was the “reason” I got out of my horrible marriage…. I think if it weren’t for my seeing the abuse through my kids’ eyes, or thinking about it from their possible perspective, I might have stayed much longer, because of my belief in the permanence of the commitment to marriage and desire to keep trying, through whatever “for better, for worse” came. But not when children were involved! That was a game changer for me, and even so….. it was excruciatingly hard for me to make the decision to leave, to turn my back…. I think that was the magnetic pull of the trauma bond, and I just made a decision to get out, and to break that bond. And I did.

But I’ve felt it, and I believe it is real. Not to condemn, not to excuse, but to understand — to acknowledge that this is a real thing, to help people understand better the dynamics of abusive relationships. If this important piece in our understanding is missing, then we will continue to misunderstand, misapply justice or therapy, withhold real help.

This is important to consider, and I thank you for bringing it up, Kim.


What I don’t understand is how any parent can SEE their own flesh and blood (their children) being severely abused and not do anything to protect them from such a sadistic person. The father could see (with his own eyes) what this woman had been doing to his kids – I don’t care if you’re trauma bonded, you put yourself and your children first, getting out of an unsafe, dangerous environment ASAP.


Bluejay, I have two words for you to explain why a parent is able to see their own flesh and blood abused and not take action: Stockholm Syndrome.

It is a severe misnomer, but well-recognized by the psychological community as an actual defense mechanism that a victim of extreme abuse develops. It is an emotional disorder that I experienced, personally, during my first marriage. Believe me, it is one of the most difficult scenarios to describe and/or explain. But, the core of it goes down to this: a moment without abuse is considered an ACT OF KINDNESS by the abuser. Here’s a link that can go in-depth about how it develops.



The key takeaway I got from reading the Stockholm Syndrome is that the captors showed some type of kindness to the hostages (exactly as you had mentioned). I think that’s the main reason this happens. And I think that is what happened to me and that’s why I have cog/diss. The spaths showed just enough charm, kindness and warmth that we were hooked. When they turn vile, we try to do anything we can to recreate that initial “feeling.” They throw us tidbits of kindness in with the vileness and we’re happy. UGGHHH. Makes me feel so weak when I thought I was so strong.


I just read the article. It makes me so angry. What good is CPS? Why do I read and hear over and over again that incidents such as these are reported to CPS in every state in this nation and the reports are ignored???? What can we do about this??? It is absolutely dreadful!!


Bluejay, I hope that I’m not perceived as “defending” the father’s apathy – just explaining it.

When a man attempts to alert ANY agency, Law Enforcement, or other human being about living with a woman who’s perpetrating violence and abuse, he is subject to a type of ridicule that cannot be described. “What kind of ‘man’ ARE you? You can’t handle the little woman?” I’ve actually overheard police officers identify a male victim of domestic violence as “a pussy.” The humiliation that men face when reporting female-on-male domestic violence/abuse cannot be described – it just can’t.

CPS is a great agency – in theory. The absolutely unfortunate fact about this agency in every State is that it is under-funded and VERY poorly staffed. Most CPS workers last about 3 years before burnout. They typically handle a caseload of 600 new and continuing investigations, every month – in populations of over 20,000. Case workers are wading through a stinking, steaming cesspool of bureaucracy (sp?) and heartbreaking Court rulings that are senseless and just plain stupid. This is not to excuse pushing obvious investigations to the back of the bus, but it’s just an explanation of WHY the whole system is a big “FAIL.”

What is desperately needed is a clear understanding in Courtrooms of spath/abusive behaviors, especially with regard to the effects on children. There needs to be a complete overhaul of our current Legal Systems – 200 years old with VERY few contemporary amendments. CPS should have better intensive training, screening, and emotional support fo the case workers in the way of mandatory weekly counseling therapy.

It’s all about education – education – education. Changing the professional language in defining and approaching the subjects of sociopathy and psychopathy need to be drastically altered and revised.

There – my 2 cents. LOLOL!!!


I completely understand why this subject is so upsetting. “The System” is simply broken and it needs a complete overhaul.

It’s somewhat triggering for me as I started my gradeschool career filthy and hungry, as well. Quite an object of ridicule and full of shame, I still defended my parents.

Sometimes, parents are in such deep denial that innocent children suffer. Very sad.


LPMarie13-yep, gotta love it, your sister was getting the shoes, her husband was being abusive(rolling up the window on her arm) and she’s reasonsable because she didn’t…move her arm!! Yep, that is exactly how we end up staying with these abusive jerks so long. Acussing the abused. She didn’t hurt him, HE hurt her but is her responsibilty because of what she didn’t do. Surprising how it still applies to the abused but our society figured it out when it came to rape. It’s the same thing as when a women was blamed for rape because of not dressing “properly”.

Story of my life though, all of my family would say that [email protected] when someone was mean to me. Always, always, always their wording word be something on the lines of “why were you……?” Always, especially mom, it was turned back on ME. Lucky for my nh, groomed just for him.

Oh my lucky nh, because of that rearing he got the perfect girl for him.

just-us-5 and Truth speak,
I couldn’t agree with you more. The system and our entire culture needs an overhaul. All the roots of spathiness need to be removed.

Just us 5, yep, when I told the sheriff that the spath had trick HIM when he got the neighborhood slut to report me as a missing person, he said, “well, if you’re so afraid of him, why don’t you move?” WTF? It’s my responsibility to move and the sheriff is getting paid for WHAT?

That’s when I knew that the spath had played each pawn and that the Sheriff was in on the game.

The corruption is so bad here that 9 times out of 10, when I tell anyone about what happened, the say, “oh that county has the most corrupt cops in the state.” Gee, and county sheriff is an elected office.

That’s why I wake up each morning and say, “OMG, there’s so much evil in the world”


Skylar-there IS so much evil. I really try not to think about how normal evil has become. It makes me sick, literally, to my stomach when I do.
Everything is so backward. I can’t believe how just in my lifetime everything has turned upside down. Biblical?


Skylar-you’ve probaly told the story before about him having the neighborhood slut report you has a missing person but I missed it. Can I ask?

just us 5,
the slut is an older woman he was having an affair with because he sniffed out that she was filled with envy. She told me she only dates married men. why would anyone do that? because she doesn’t want the men, she just doesn’t want their wives to be happily married. BTW, I’m starting to realize that what spaths really envy is relationships. Our ability to have relationships with each other and God, is what they envy about us.

June 3, 2009 I get a call from a deputy saying that I had been reported a missing person by the slut who is on the neighborhood association (we both were) and I better come in so they can verify that I’m not missing. (what a moron).

I hung up. He called back over and over and left some messages. I answered a few times and told him that I didn’t know who he was and for all I knew he was impersonating a county cop. He said, “oh that would be a serious crime.” I said, “well recently some people are impersonating homeland security around here.” He said, “oh lots of people do THAT.” wtf? impersonating a hick town cop is a serious crime but impersonating homeland security is nothing?

Anyway, he finally said, he was satisfied that I was who I said I was and let it go.

Later that day, the spath called crying that the cops had called him and scared him saying that I was a missing person. He was mad at me for not answering he phone and causing this to happen. lol! He was crying and raging on the phone. said he was so worried he almost drove off the road. I recorded it all.

Then later spath called again, he said he was going to “punish” the slut and the cops for scaring him. He said he would tell the slut that I had committed suicide and he had cut my body up and placed in in plastic trash bags and he needed her help moving it. He said she would call the cops and that would be how he would punish them all. Then he said that they would try to arrest him, but I better answer the phone so that they wouldn’t. Of course I said that I wasn’t going to answer, but he said that I better answer it.

Then he called back saying, that he had told the slut and she freaked out and ran into her house screaming “No, say it isn’t true!” with her hands to her face. Of course he was full of it.

Then the cops started calling and I didn’t answer. They said, “skylar, you need to answer the phone, we are wasting precious police resources on you.” Then spath started to call and leave messages, “you’d better answer, they are pointing automatic weapons at me and one of the cops tripped and almost killed me.”

It was all about making me jump when they said jump. Since I didn’t, they were using all their “precious police resources.” They even called the cops in the big city to come to my parents house and ask if I was ok. My parents said I was and the whole thing ended. I wish my parents had said, “we don’t know, that spath is a serial killer.”

Finally a few weeks later, I met up with the stupid sheriff and told him what happened. He said, “oh yeah, I happened to be here and responded to that call myself.” I told him it was all a plan and I suspected that his own deputies were involved, then I gave him the recordings of all the phone calls and the spath admitting what he was going to do. I never heard back from him or the deputies, despite the fact that I called and emailed again later.

There IS so much evil in the world. My spath told me long ago that it was so easy to find guys who would be willing to rape a girl if they thought she was drugged up.


Sky-I hope you don’t tell that story to too many people, you’ll get locked up. lol. Only people who have been through bazaar [email protected] like that can believe it. That’s part of the game too, I believe, they purposely do bazaar things like that in order to 1)drive you crazy 2) make everyone else think you crazy if you tell them.

You caused what, his emotional upset? WTF It’s opposite day boys and girls!!!

just us 5,
I know, nobody believes it. Even though that’s the story I actually have recordings of! pthththtth!

It’s useless, nobody believes that horror stories are really real. It’s too scary. It’s easier to go into cog/dis.


Skylar, oh….my…..gawd, what a FRUIT LOOP your exspath is! I mean a true, absolute fruit loop.

Just-us, I agree with you 100% – the exspath began waging a campaign of crazymaking about 3 years ago, and I would NOT be surprised if I learned that he had been involved in the stalking/harassment issues.

They spend SO much energy on their machinations. What thwarted the exspath was that I wasn’t taking the bait. He tried one thing (suggesting that I was mentally ill), and then another (suggesting that HE was mentally ill). When neither worked out the way that he had intended, he just dismissed me on all levels.


Sky-It took me awhile to understand how crazy my stories sounded. All I knew is a was telling what happened. Oops, guess the joke was on me. A few friends and family members understand NOW but it took 20+ years. However, they still are sucked in by his charm. I’ve got one sibling that will put him in his place though, finally.

Of course we here understand your story. Was that while you were still with him?

Truth and Just us 5,
thanks for understanding my crazy story.

Just us 5,
It got really crazy right before that, as he was trying to set me up to die and I ran. When he was trying to regain control of me, that’s when that one episode took place on June 3, 2009.

If I hadn’t recorded the whole thing, I would think I had imagined it because I was crazy. Technology will be the end of the spaths!! We have to leverage it at EVERY OPPORTUNITY.


Sky-Ok, I get your story completely now. Wow, I never would have thought I’d be a part of a group were this craziness is understand. Thank God for this group though so we know it’s not us that are crazy.


sky ‘My spath told me long ago that it was so easy to find guys who would be willing to rape a girl if they thought she was drugged up. ‘


thanks parallelogram,
the most painful part of a spath attack, I think, is that you know nobody would believe it. Then, even with evidence, it turns out that the people who should care, were in on it too.

It’s just like the Sandusky/Paterno Penn state crap. Spaths KNOW that the best way to protect themselves is to make the guys at the top complicit in your dirty deeds. They will try to protect themselves so they have to protect the spath.

it was more than that. I thought you knew. I’ll tell you about it one day. I don’t think I need to traumatize the LF board any more tonight.


Sky, your story was so crazy.

Not crazy in the sense that I didn’t believe you. I believed every word that you said.

Crazy in the sense, “I can’t believe what people do and get away with.”

So sorry that you had to go through that, but thank God you had your wits about you and didn’t react to the baiting.

Thanks Grace,
I can’t take credit. The sushi man (from the gray rock article) told me what to do. I just ran with it.

I realized that they just needed a REACTION. ANY REACTION. So I took it away.


Good for you.


Skylar, no need for thanking me for understanding your “crazy story!” Jayzus, but I am so grateful that you are safe and sound – many people aren’t able to connect the dots and they end up lost or dead.

I’ve mentioned this, before, but I’ll say it in support of your experiences: I truly believe that I would have met with a lethal “accident” or some sudden fatal “illness” if I had not made the discovery when I did. I have no doubt about this, especially given the employment that the exspath has. More on that at a later date.

Parallelogram, when the exspath wasn’t indulging in his fantasies or other personal interests, he was laying plans on how to extract more money from me and my family, and how to convince me that I was mentally ill.

It takes an enormous amount of energy for spaths to lay down their plans and execute them. Perhaps, this is why the exspath was able to sleep so soundly at night, even after he had been engaging in his violent and deviant sexual interests.

When I was curious about how far his sexual interests had gone, I scoured our shared computer and found hundreds – literally hundreds – of photographs that he had taken of his BDS&M playmate in various costumes and pornographic poses. I didn’t view every one of them because I would have vomited if I had come across a photograph of him. But, a good friend of mine who is a graphic and photography artist told me that home-made photographs will have a digital “signature” assigned to them, rather than a website signature if they’ve been downloaded. Sure enough, this person recognized the digital signature as coming from the same brand of camera that we owned.

This was all before I learned about the financial fraud! LMAO!!! So…..yeah…..the exspath slept like a baby because he spent so much energy perpetrating his betrayals.

Laughing out loud, this morning, because I’m joyful that I don’t have to live in the exspath’s warped universe, ever again!

BRIGHTEST blessings to everyone!


Truth and Sky

Truth-Wow, sounds like you have quit the story too. Mine sleeps like a rock too. I think we need a survey on how many sleep like a rock. Maybe there a 11 red flags

Sky-“I realized that they just needed a REACTION. ANY REACTION. So I took it away.” It is truely amazing how they do indeed need any reaction. Mine can take my laughter twist it and demean me with it when he is raging. It’s amazing.

I love it when people give me advise saying,,,’you should do this or do that, tell him…’, they just don’t understand.
Their advice of course always has emotion attached and well….


Riiight. People who have not woken up to personality disorders believe you can reason with ANYONE. That all people are able, on some level, to be reasoned with (unless they are ON DRUGS).

Wrong. I think spaths are on a ‘natural high’, that they get when they perpetrate constant betrayal and crazy-making. And if they get an emotional reaction they get some extra squirts of adrenaline and dopamine.

Talking about PRO-jection:

1. YOU even flirt with babies (ewwww)

2. YOU are the destroyer of LOVE (when I threw him out)

3. YOU don’t want to hear things about yourself that are not flattering….because you are so screwed up

4. YOU always criticize me

5. You think this is some kind of GAME? (that was a BIG tell)

Happy Sunday…..Slim


Slimone………what a jagoff.

And, the problem about “personality disorders” is that the very verbage suggests that personality disorders can all be managed or cured.


Right, Truthy. The “disorder” can be “ordered” back into rational, acceptable behavior. Ha! As if it were ever there in the first place.

There has to be a better term than that, one that will not suggest that such a thing is possible.

How about “malevolent personality syndrome” or something like that?


G1S & Parallelogram………absolutely. “Disorder” is a nauseating “feel-good” label that doesn’t even come close to the truth: no pill, no therapy, no surgery, no electroshock therapy, no castration, NOTHING “heals” or manages it.

Again, I’m going on with the dismissive noises and hand waving….ttttzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt……pppffffft…..sheesh


Oh, geez, Truthy, I thought that was your middle finger that I was seeing. 😉

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