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By | July 23, 2011 18 Comments

Teenage murderer exhibits signs of a sociopath

Last week a Florida teenager by the name of Tyler Hadley allegedly beat his parents to death with a framing hammer, and then had a party attended by about 60 young people, with his parents’ bodies in the master bedroom.

Some people appear to be blaming Hadley’s behavior on drug use. Read:

City is stunned at teenager’s arrest in parents’ deaths on NYTimes.com.

In another article, however, a one of Hadley’s neighbors related that he had a reputation as a “troubled child”—and then explained how troubled. It sounds like a description of a sociopath.

Read Neighbor tells Jane Velez-Mitchell that Tyler Hadley ‘never showed emotion’ on Examiner.com.

Story suggested by a Lovefraud reader.


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Ox Drover

Note the comments on this second article where a commenter excuses the behavior of the Hadley boy.

It is also interesting that Hadley showed the bodies to his friend, the typical psychopathic “has to have an audience” behavior I think.

Blaming the drug for the behavior is sort of like, I think, blaming the gun for a fire arms murder. No one forced the drug down the kid’s throat, or forced the hammer into his hand. If anything, it seems to me that he took the drug to “pump up his courage” to do what he wanted to do anyway.

Hopefully, he will get life without parole, but I may be wishing for too much.

Back_from_the_edge

“I am sorry for “IT” but I am not giving up my life for “IT”. Not considering “IT” tried to purposely take it from me to begin with. Know what I mean? I don’t mind laying it on the line but I DO mind someone trying to take it from me.”

~DUPEDSTER

Ox Drover

What do you guys think of the information coming out about this guy in Norway?

I was reading today that he has not had contact with his father since he was 15-16, though the father “fought for” custody of him from the mother but lost….the guy had started to do vandalism at age 15-16 and it was after that that the father had no contact with him. It wasn’t clear if NC was initiated by the father or the young man.

He apparently planned this spree for months or years in advance. (head shaking here) Reminds one of Timothy McVeigh, but interestingly, if he is convicted, in Norway he will only get about 20 years in prison (so he will be out by about age 52–even though he killed over 90 people ) Very very sad for the people of the country.

behind_blue_eyes

Ox;

Perhaps Norway will use this incident to understand that there are individuals so evil that a responsible society cannot allow them to be free.

Though, from our discussion in the other thread about quick diagnosis, he is one I am certain is a sociopath and given this crime, probably scores very high on the Hare scale, if not pegging it.

skylar

Classic Embitterment Disorder.
He did this for political reasons. He feels the world is changing in ways he doesn’t like, he can’t adapt, he tries to get everyone to do things his way. I wouldn’t call him a sociopath, at this stage. just a sick narcissist with a huge narcissistic injury.

If he was a sociopath, he would not have wanted the attention, he would have used poison and then slithered away….like my exspath.

Ox Drover

BBE, Maybe not such a high score either….he has no criminal record of any kind, except that vandalism his father talked about as a teenager….etc. Actually the PCL-R scores very well I think in detecting CRIMINAL and violent Ps, but I don’t think it picks up the “snakes in suits” well.

Probably what they will do is outlaw guns….rather than clamp down on those people who use them to commit crimes. LOL

Every Swiss made has an AUTOMATIC rifle and ammo in their home (they have universal military training and all males are in the “home guard” or whatever they call it, I can’t remember the name) so there is almost NO gun crime in the country where EVERYONE is armed. So guns are not the problem, it is the people who decide to pull the triggers. Letting people out of jail who have behaved VIOLENTLY—in any way with guns, knife or club—is a mistake.

He may be a psychopath or he may be delusional or mentally ill in another way—whatever he is, he should NEVER be on the outside of a prison.

Redwald

Classic Embitterment Disorder.
He did this for political reasons. He feels the world is changing in ways he doesn’t like, he can’t adapt, he tries to get everyone to do things his way. I wouldn’t call him a sociopath, at this stage. just a sick narcissist with a huge narcissistic injury.

Skylar does have a good point here. Underlying it is an issue of principle.

Psychopathy is not the only reason people do things we consider “bad” or “evil.” By “psychopathy” I mean specifically the lack of a conscience that would otherwise inhibit dangerously antisocial behavior. It’s not just ONE factor—the presence or absence of “conscience”—that’s involved in moral decisions of this kind. Rather, it’s a matter of balance. Psychopaths do bad things because they have too little “conscience” to withstand ordinary impulses to do these things. But other people who are not psychopaths may have a functioning conscience for most purposes. It’s simply that some issue or obsession they have looms so large in their minds that it overwhelms whatever conscience they have. They allay their conscience by “rationalizing” and justifying whatever it is they’re doing. Then they do evil things for what they, if not the rest of us, consider a “good and sufficient reason.” I’m sure many political fanatics are good examples of this.

Most of us don’t go around killing people, and we don’t want to either. But if we’re driven to defend ourselves against a deadly threat—or if we’re called upon to fight in an actual war against a real enemy—then we will kill that enemy and consider it justified. The political fanatic too is likely to see himself or herself as fighting a “war” of sorts, and sometimes sees killing as “justified” in that cause. This is true of terrorists the world over. So terrorists don’t have to be psychopaths—though it’s obvious that mental instability of some kind can contribute to deadly fanaticism. Ted Kaczynski was a good example. He had a definite cause, and a coherent message, but I don’t doubt that being a paranoid schizophrenic as well had a lot to do with pushing him over the edge to the point where his “activism” took homicidal form.

Paranoia in general is behind a lot of political extremism. Fear of course is the motive behind any kind of self defense, whether or not it goes as far as killing others. Sometimes fear is justified, as it is when attacked by a real enemy. On the other hand, fear can be grotesquely magnified in some people’s minds, so that a political threat seems enormous enough to necessitate a violent or deadly response. That’s probably part of what went on with this guy Anders Breivik. However irrational and repulsive his actions, they were motivated by what he saw as a colossal threat. But it’s not a trivial threat either.

Oxy’s comparison with Timothy McVeigh is a good one in my view. Yet we shouldn’t forget those leftist terrorists either who were setting bombs way back in the 1960s and 1970s: the Weathermen, the Students for a Stalinist Society or whatever they called themselves, the Brigate Rosse (“Red Brigades”) in Italy, and the rest of that lot.

The way I see it, every now and then a great many of the People get thoroughly fed up with the way their country is being run, and they start pushing for political change. But the political establishment has colossal inertia, and it takes an enormous shove from millions of shoulders (not forgetting a good kick in the arse) to get it moving in the direction the People want. There’s a hysteresis effect, a time lag between demand and response. Meantime, while the People are shoving and the political establisnment is not yet moving fast enough, some people are getting frustrated. And when there’s a big mass movement of the People going on, there’s a higher probability that some unstable nutjob who’s part of that movement will get frustrated enough to start shooting or tossing bombs around.

Back in the 1960s and 70s there was a broad “leftward” movement across much of the Western world. So back in those days there were more leftists who were frustrated and resorted to violence. (Some of it was about civil rights too, like the Black Panthers.) By the 90s most of that leftist fanaticism had expended itself, and the People’s concerns were different. There was what some people call a “rightward” shift going on. I wouldn’t call it wholly “rightward” myself, though it was certainly “anti-left.” Much of it was libertarian in character, opposed to things like high taxes but also to the excessive growth of government power in general. That was where McVeigh’s issues were, and they were also reflected in the militia movement that got a lot of publicity in the 90s. But there were also more “traditionally right wing” campaigns. I haven’t forgotten that the 90s saw a few nutjobs shooting abortion doctors, for instance.

In Europe, as here, one of the hot buttons today is immigration. There has already been a movement in Norway to cut down on immigration, which has resulted in changes at government level. So while it is surprising to see this kind of violence happening in Norway, a very small and usually peaceful country, I don’t doubt that Anders Breivik is just an extreme and fanatical symptom of a far broader (but more moderate) movement. Incidentally Islamic immigration is not his only issue. He’s opposed to the curse of “political correcness” at large, which is responsible among other things for ramming immigration down a lot of Europeans’ throats whether they wanted it or not. I’m not surprised there’s frustration there.

Breivik has a VERY long “manifesto” that anyone can glance through if they choose. I said “glance through” because it’s FIFTEEN HUNDRED pages, so I doubt that many people will read it all!

He called it 2083: A European Declaration of Independence

While it is long, the bits I’ve seen are perfectly coherent. I saw some news articles calling the document “rambling.” “Rambling,” I’ve noticed, is a bullcrap code word the politically correct media use to label anything they disagree with, in an attempt to suggest it “makes no sense” or is “not worth reading.” Back in 1997 they labeled Kaczynski’s manifesto “rambling” as well, though it was perfectly articulate and he did make some points worth listening to. It even earned him a “fan group” on Usenet: “alt.fan.unabomber.” Since Breivik’s “manifesto” is an explicit attack on “political correctness,” I’m not surprised the media have labeled it “rambling.” I expect he’ll soon have an “alt.fan.breivik” group discussing it as well. I must say it’s wittier than Kaczynski’s was. Take this paragraph for instance:

It is correct, as feminists claim, that a hyper-feminine society is not as destructive as a hyper-masculine society. The catch with a too soft society is that it is unsustainable. It will get squashed as soon as it is confronted by more traditional, aggressive ones. Instead of “having it all,” Western women risk losing everything. What are liberal feminists going to do when faced with [an] aggressive gang of Muslim youngsters? Burn their bras and throw the pocket edition of the Vagina Monologues at them?

On a more serious note, Britain at least has had a problem with gangs of Muslim men exploiting young teenage girls. Whether it’s happened in Norway I don’t know.

Going back to the beginning, it’s clearly accurate to say that Breivik “feels the world is changing in ways he doesn’t like.” Turning Karl Marx’s famous dictum on its head, when it comes to changes that people don’t like, “the point is to STOP them!” Of course, not all changes can be stopped, and Breivik’s atrocious methods are not the way to do it. But millions of other Europeans don’t like these changes either; and immigration at least is something that can be stopped. It remains to be seen how many Norwegians will pursue Breivik’s concerns, though not of course his methods.

skylar

Redwald,
The issues are just excuses, we all have excuses. Solve one and the sociopaths will just incite violence in the other direction.

The point I was trying to make is that he is a narcissist. He has control issues. He can’t control himself so he must control everyone else. He can’t adapt so he must force everyone else to adapt to him.

I wish I could find a link to an article about a woman who led all the women in her country to help stop the war. How? They all refused to have sex with their spouses until they laid down their weapons and stopped fighting. We’ve learned here, how powerful we are against sociopaths because we control our emotions and don’t feed them any. We control OURSELVES. We don’t have to control them.

found it:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2010/04/05/its-time-to-end-africas-mass-rape-tragedy.html

Ox Drover

“pocket edition of the Vagina Monologues at them?” QUOTE: ROTFLMAO SNORK SNARF CHOKE

Okay okay, but it WAS FUNNY! The guy may be a right wing monster but he has a sense of humor! LOL

Redwald, the social clashes between Muslim and Western cultures is nothing new in the history of the world…there ARE and always will be clashes between different cultures because there are LITERALLY different ways of viewing, hearing and relating to the worlds around us that become hardwired by culture, just as there are “sounds” in different languages that cannot be heard by the adult brain that did not grow up hearing them as a child.

When I was in Africa there were sounds in the Bantu languages that I literally could not “hear” much less reproduce, yet one of the Americans there who had a 4 year old daughter there with him, was becoming bilingual in Bantu as well as English, she was just “picking it up” from being around the Bantu game guards. I was TRYING to hear it, but couldn’t. Their way of looking at things was entirely different than mine as well. I’m reading a book right now about the plasticity of the human brain and how our environment changes the baby’s brain and the culture is part of the environment. The research has been done about Asian vs Western vs Middle Eastern thinking patterns being different in how we view the world, either as a while or in pieces. Very interesting information in the world of brain research as well as culture and sociology.

Changes, especially in older people, become a threat, and assimilation into a new culture is difficult for older people than it is for younger ones. It is interesting to me that this man is actually so young.

The book I am reading also goes into how N. Korea and how China indoctrinates the young and turns everything in the world into US vs. THEM, and “them” (anyone not us) is the ENEMY so that there is almost no way to change that person’s mind about WHO the ENEMY is.

Humans tend to separate other people iInto US vs. THEM anyway, and in a way, here at LF we do the same thing in placing psychopaths (or anyone we think is bad)into the THEM category and lumping them all into an “enemies” category.

I thought it was interesting too that the guy was put into solitary confinement and his podium for his ideas was taken away. He will not be allowed to write letters or receive them or to have visitors. In one of the photographs of him being driven away in a bullet proof car, he appeared that he had smirk on his face.

Back_from_the_edge

skylar, you said:

“The point I was trying to make is that he is a narcissist. He has control issues. He can’t control himself so he must control everyone else. He can’t adapt so he must force everyone else to adapt to him.” Oh do I ever see THAT! Completely. EVERYONE must conform or they are OUT. Definitely.

OX: Interesting post. Thanks so much.

Duped

behind_blue_eyes

Is it me or does this guy look a lot like Julian Assange?

Back_from_the_edge

WHAT GUY BBE?
I DONT SEE NO GUY. 🙂

Back_from_the_edge

Donna: I have purposely NOT read the articles above because just reading the little bit you posted has me sick to my stomach. I got the picture enough without reading the articles. Please do accept my apologies for responding even though I haven’t read them.

I read enough to tell that this is a very disturbed person. Anyone who could do ANYTHING like this is not a well person. He seems young enough that he may escape any harsh form of justice but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him ABSOLUTELY end up in a hospital. I am sure that probably his attorneys are seeing this as somewhat of a credible defense. Unfortunately that does not serve justice nor the safety nor sanctity of our world.

The amount of uncontrollable rage that took place in this incident (just from the brief description you provided) tells me that this is truly a sick person. We need to educate people – mostly our children, like we do when we speak to them about ‘sex’ and ‘where babies come from’, etc., we need to find a way to include the discussion about bad people with ill intentions without making them traumatized nor afraid to live and be happy and enjoy this world as the child they are. There has to be a way. If we love our children, we will find a way. 🙂

I think the BEST education a child can ever get is one lived by example. I have asked myself, every day since I became a mother at the age of 18 years old, ‘what do I look like to my kid?’ Do I want my kid to see me doing this? or that? I think that is part of the responsibility of being an adult; a parent. I never have known what a parent like this is. I had my Maternal Grandfather who raised me and never a mother or father, in the normal sense. I raised myself from the age of 16, when Gramps passed away, and have been making my way in life ever since. 🙂 I have been so blessed to have raised four wonderful human beings, I call my children. They have been the only massive joy I have found in this journey we call life. THAT and all of the gentle blessings and wonderful people like all of you who makes life worth it. Worth all the struggles and up’s and down’s. You all have helped make me stronger inside.

Ok, I will get off my soapbox and wish you all a wonderful evening FREE of stress, chaos, sadness and tears…

Put a smile on those faces and know we are all here together.

Love ~ Duped

behind_blue_eyes

Duped;

The Norwegian guy…

Back_from_the_edge

Oh, sorry…I didn’t see the article. I read enough in Donna’s post that I couldn’t take reading the article. I don’t even want to see their faces. How horrible is that! I have had to force myself to stay away from the ugly things sometimes because it just sends me off into one. Thanks for telling me though. I thought perhaps it was one of those holographic kind of things; ahahahaha

*HUGS BBE* 😉

Dupedster duh-duh-duh

Louise

BBE:

Yes, he does resemble Julian.

Redwald

Hi Oxy,

You’ve had some fascinating experiences out there in southern Africa. Yes, I’ve heard of those languages where Westerners are apparently unable even to distinguish some of the sounds if they haven’t already been doing so for most of their lives. I’d love to have a crack at doing that myself, to see if I could tell the difference or not!

It would be interesting to know some of the ways in which their way of looking at things is different from ours. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that many of them are value differences ultimately rooted in the Bantus’ traditional mode of survival in their physical and ecological environment.

I find it helpful to distinguish between “culture” and “environment.” My own personal definition of a “culture” is the set of customs and other behaviors a society has adopted in order to meet their human needs within a particular environment. So while “cultures” can vary enormously, they do have constraints: the constraints of the environment they operate in on the one hand, and the mandate to satisfy basic human needs (including social and emotional) on the other.

I’m not sure why you seem surprised that Anders Breivik is so young. For one thing he’s a revolutionary, unquestionably a “hothead”—that’s putting it mildly!—and those types invariably are young. If anyone wants to add that he’s mentally unstable, I’d point out that mental instability of that kind is more likely to manifest itself earlier rather than later. I mean at 20-35 (at a rough guess) rather than 50 or 60, say.

What is the typical age of anyone who goes on a shooting spree of this kind? Who comes to mind? Derrick Bird was unusually old at 52. Jared Lee Loughner who shot Gabby Giffords and others here in Arizona was 22. Seung-Hui Cho of the Virginia Tech massacre was 23. Harris and Klebold of Columbine High School were only 18. Charles Whitman at the University of Texas was 25. Ryan of the Hungerford massacre was 27. Thomas Hamilton in Dunblane was 43. Howard Unruh back in 1949 was 28. Starkweather was only 19. Hennard, the guy in Luby’s in Texas was 35. I could go on, but the feel I’m getting is that Breivik if anything is on the older side for this kind of violent outburst.

There’s also something Breivik himself said. He was describing the problem of Muslim gangs in Oslo, which USED to be a peaceful city. He himself had been attacked or robbed by these gangs as many as eight times, suffering a broken nose, and other people he knew had been hurt worse, even raped. He said:

…more than 80% of our parliamentarians have never experienced Muslim gangs with all its ugly manifestations. A great majority of them haven’t even been raised in Oslo or any large European city with small but dominant Muslim minorities. They usually move to Oslo as adults and settle in the non-Muslim areas of the city. Our parliamentarians and media are completely unplugged from reality, they don’t know what’s going on or they don’t want to know. On the other hand, the new generations that have experienced this development the last two decades are all urban, young individuals under 30-35 years. I’m quite sure the majority of them now vote the Progress Party, Norway’s only antiimmigration party.

“Urban, young individuals under 30-35 years…” If that’s the case it helps to explain why younger rather than older people would have the grievances that Breivik was venting.

I’m not altogether surprised if he had a smirk on his face when they drove him away. They might stop him writing letters or making public speeches, but that makes no difference when he already got his message out BEFORE the massacre. In the 21st century they can’t shut him up, not as long as the Internet is free. I heard the guy mailed copies of his “manifesto” to over FIVE THOUSAND people! With all the publicity he got, many times that number will end up looking at it, if only out of sheer curiosity. There’s a video as well. So he may be smirking at the number of people who will be reading his stuff, whether they “like” it or not!

Ox Drover

Dear Redwald,

Yea, I am reading about the brain’s neuroplastic capacities and how language and culture are different as well as how they CHANGE the brain’s chemistry AND the connections inside the brain. Very interesting stuff….the new scans and abilities to test the brain now are leading scientists to see that the brain is NOT static…it can change and modify itself (plasticity) in response to environment and experience.

Some research on the way various populations (Asian vs Western vs. Middle Eastern) view the world and observe the world is amazing—Asians vs Westerners view the world more as a whole whereas they don’t seen the minuteness of a picture, but westerners see more minute areas more clearly but fail to take in the whole….

The Bantu culture makes good sense in the hunter/gatherer and even in the cattle herder environment, but it starts to break down in the cities, with gangs of kids who roam at large without clear boundaries….plus add in the drugs, and South Africa’s youth is having a big problem now. My friends who still live there, and what I have read, about what is going on in the intercities is very sad. The traditional culture that had a moral compass is breaking down among these youth who are losing that moral compass as they progress from their native culture to the drug and urban culture which lacks the controls that the community had over adolescent behavior.

I learned to respect the Bantu and their culture and some of the interesting things about their language that reflected their environment, and how they saw the world as a unified whole. That was over 40 years ago, though, I am very sad that urbanization and drugs are adversely effecting too many of the Bantu youth today.

Some of these guys, like the Unabomber and others who go on rampages, actually I think are mentally ill (though maybe not legally “mentally incompetent”) and some are just filled with rage at perceived injustices….(real or not). Cultural clashes, though, cause a lot of disturbances in both sides. Look at the various “honor killings” that are taking place in UK from families who have emigrated and their kids don’t maintain their “traditional” culture, but instead absorb the western one and don’t want an arranged marriage with some cousin back in Pakistan so the father kills them to save the family “honor.”

We had a case here in US not long ago where a Middle Eastern man was trying to force his 13 year old step daughter (American) to marry his 50 year old cousin “back home” She managed to escape before they could force her on a plane though, but again, it was a clash of cultures.

The way our brains “hard wire” our culture and belief systems at a young age about what is “right and wrong” (though this Can be changed, it is very difficult to change it) forcing two cultures to live together that are very different can be a problem for both sides, producing a Timothy McVeigh or one like this most recent one in Norway. Yea, he did get his “message” out there, but I doubt that there is going to be a big uprising like he hoped there would be even if he did get his message out there.

At the same time, I think our side needs to realize we are not going to “convert” the Taliban into kind neighbors that will live peacefully next door to us in peaceful co-existence. Not gonna happen. I guess we can throw our “pocket edition of peaceful neighbor manifestos” at them. LOL (I laughed out loud about his feminist humor!) Shouldn’t I guess, but it wAS funny. I guess even a monster full of rage can have a sense of humor as well.

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