By | December 1, 2008 31 Comments

The con man, the thug and the jihadists

After the terrible attacks in Mumbai, India last week, it’s easy to understand why preventing acts of terrorism is the FBI’s top priority. But in 2006 and 2007, the FBI was so zealous in its mission that it was willing to stake an entire investigation on a con man and a thug. Now, at a trial taking place in a federal court in Camden, New Jersey, it’s beginning to look like our nation’s elite investigative agency has been had.

Five young men, all foreign-born Muslims who grew up Cherry Hill, New Jersey, are accused of plotting a terrorist attack on United States soil. Prosecutors allege that they planned to kill soldiers at Fort Dix, a military base located only a few miles up the road in the heart of the New Jersey Pine Barrens. They were, a prosecutor stated in opening arguments, holy warriors intent on bringing jihad to America.

The Fort Dix Five

The defendants, called the “Fort Dix Five,” are:

  • Three brothers who are ethnic Albanians from what is now Macedonia: Dritan Duka (age 29), Shain Duka (27) and Eljvir Duka (25). Their father brought them into the country illegally in 1984, when they were small children.
  • Mohamad Ibrahim Shnewer, 24, a Palestinian cab driver from Jordan, who is Dritan Duka’s brother-in-law and a naturalized American citizen.
  • Serdar Tartar, 25, born in Turkey, who worked at his father’s pizzeria and frequently delivered pizza to Fort Dix.

These men, and one other, went to a shooting range in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania, where they allegedly practiced firing automatic weapons. They videotaped themselves shooting the weapons and shouting, “Allahu Akbar,” or “God is great.” On January 31, 2006, they were stupid enough to bring the tape to a Circuit City store to be converted into a DVD. A store clerk called the authorities, and the FBI took action.

The investigation

The FBI set up an elaborate undercover operation to find out what was going on. They recruited two other Muslims to infiltrate the group and spent 15 months secretly recording 200 conversations, mostly with Shnewer.

Then the FBI set up a sting in one informant’s Cherry Hill apartment. They had him offer M-16 and AK-47 rifles to the Dritan and Shain Duka, with the entire transaction captured on closed-circuit TV.

As soon as the brothers paid for the weapons, FBI agents stormed the room and arrested them.

The five Muslim men are charged with attempted murder and conspiracy to murder military personnel. Four are also charged with weapons offenses. They all face a maximum sentence of life in prison.

The con man

The case now being prosecuted by the Department of Justice rests primarily on the evidence gathered by the informants. So who are these guys?

The main informant is Mahmoud Omar, 39, an Egyptian national who was also an illegal immigrant. He slipped into the country in the 1980s and acquired a green card after marrying a U.S. citizen. He is now living with another woman, with whom he has two daughters.

Omar, a former used-car salesman, was convicted of passing bad checks in 2002. He served six months in prison, and then five years probation, for that offense. He also filed for bankruptcy in 2002 and was facing possible deportation.

In 2005, he was convicted of bank fraud again for another check-cashing scam. The FBI offered him a deal: If he worked as an informant in terrorism investigations (not related to the Fort Dix case), he could avoid prosecution and deportation.

Then, in 2006, the FBI learned of the five young Muslims from New Jersey. They offered Omar $1,500 per week and a free $1,400 per month apartment in Cherry Hill to befriend the young men and record their conversations. He accepted the gig, and has been paid $238,000 by the FBI.

Four days before he was supposed to take the stand in the trial, Omar was smoking marijuana.

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, the defense characterized Omar as “a pot-smoking thief, a liar, and an opportunistic con man who planted ideas in the minds of the men who stand accused.”

Defense attorneys said that Omar offered suggestions to the young Muslims on how to carry out an attack, and tried to manipulate them into taking action. When they said they had no weapons, Omar said he could get them. And he did—the guns he sold to Dritan and Shain Duka were supplied by the FBI.

The thug

There’s another government informant, and he’s just as unsavory as Omar. According to, Besnik Bakalli, came to the United States illegally, then returned to Albania, where he shot a man. The man was not killed, but Bakalli was convicted in absentia.

Back in the U.S. in 2005, Bakalli was arrested for making terroristic threats, and a girlfriend got a restraining order against him in 2006. He was about to be deported when the FBI offered him legal resident status if he helped with the Fort Dix investigation. In fact, the FBI brought Bakalli’s mother and sister here from Albania last year.

Bakalli starts testifying today. Prosecutors have asked the judge to rule questions about his criminal past off limits.

Plot, or no plot?

Testimony from the trial, as reported by the media, definitely paints a fuzzy picture. The key question, writes George Anastasia of the Philadelphia Inquirer, is this:

Did the defendants plot a jihad-inspired attack on the base? Or were the five foreign-born Muslims, some more outspoken than others, manipulated into talk that created the appearance of a conspiracy that never existed?

Anastasia points out testimony that seems to indicate the Muslims weren’t really going to do it. Only one guy, Shnewer, kept coming up with ideas, like hijacking a gas tanker and driving it on a suicide mission, although he admitted he didn’t know how to drive a truck. The other guys apparently thought Shnewer was a nut case.

In my view, there was no real conspiracy. There were young Muslim guys firing guns at a shooting range and talking trash. There was a manipulative con man, an illegal immigrant previously convicted of fraud, who kept getting paid as long as he kept the chumps talking. There was a thug who wanted to beat shooting rap in Albania and stay in the United States.

The FBI built its case on two guys who sound like a models of sociopathy. I predict that the jury will see what the cops were determined not to see, and the five young men will walk.

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In The midst of all there is hope!

HIGH CONFLICK INST. please Google this as they are Experts and can help you with Legal Questions and advice LOVE JJ

Elizabeth Conley

Good synopsis. This is far from the first time the FBI or the CIA has made a fool of itself by cuddling up to sociopaths.

Ox Drover

Some Zealots on a “mission” also have badges.

Witch hunts are Witch hunts, regardless of whether they are in the 1600s or the 2000s or whether or not you do it for religious safety or Homeland Security. The intention is the same, to “ferret out evil” and to burn something at the stake for the edification and entertainment of everyone!

Then we all go home to our beds and feel much safer as we know that “the powers that be” are keeping us “safe” from the evil witches…er ah, jihadists.

Elizabeth Conley

Anybody else remember Specialist Charles Graner? I’ll never forget him and the disaster he caused.

This is just a tiny part of the puzzle.

As the Abu Graib Torture scandel errupted, it became clear this one man was profoundly warped. So clear that it simply begged the question: what kind of morons would place a goldfish in this man’s care, much less human prisoners?

I love my country, but sometimes we give stupid a bad name.

…and as bad as those pictures are, they aren’t as disturbing as the ones that magically disappeared from circulation once the investigation went South for the CIA. A lot of people were dirty, and that’s what saved Graner’s bacon.

Graner is one of many reasons why I have a less than romantic view of the nature of prison guards. Some of them are just good ol’ boys doin’ the best that they can. Others are in love with the power the position puts in their largely unqualified hands.

Elizabeth Conley


As for all that romantic fudge on the one site about Mumia Abu-Jamal (born Wesley Cook), well that’s just to illustrate that neither liberals nor conservatives hold the patent on stupid. Good grief!


Good grief … who is evil? That’s the THING about perception. Focus on IT, and IT comes to pass.

Peace, I like focusing on Peace, Harmony, and all God’s virtues.

Ox Drover

Dear Elizabeth,

As the parent of an inmate who has visited various prisons in the state of Texas, belive me I have come into contact with many prison guards who fit the immediate thought of PSYCHOPATH. Once my mother, who is very slight and frail, even then, and I were visiting with my son, for a “special” visit where we would have an all day contact visit (7 hours) in the prison chapel with programs and also private visiting time.

It was a horrible day, below freezing, spitting slush from the sky and a wind right out of the north pole sweeping across the Texas plains, with nothing to shield us. As about 150 family member stood huddled behind an admistrative building to buffer the wind, a guard came along and made us line up out in the middle of the road, far enough away from the building that the wind had us dead on and there was no protection from it. My mom tried to stay behind the building a little bit, and he came up and barked at her like she was a stray dog that had just torn up his trash and said “I SAID get out there to line up!” Then he muttered about “molly coddling” prisoners and families.

I have met wardens that treated me like a prisoner, screaming obscenities at me because my son violated some rules. My personal opinion is that “normal” people, at least most normal people, couldn’t stand to work not only with their (psychopathic) fellow guards/officers, and/or the psychopathic inmates for such little pay and such a stressful and dangerous environment. If someone wasn’t warped when they went there, I would think they would be after being there for a number of years.

I can’t even imagine being there as a guard. What a horrible job. For that kind of job, with the power trip, I can see that many Ps would like that kind of work. I have known a few guards that seemed concerned and kind, but few and far between. Most are purposely rude to visitors, and some are out right mean.

Elizabeth Conley


One of my friends has a grown daughter who is on probation. The daughter lives with my girlfriend, because the daughter has no place to go. The daughter gave my girlfriend’s home number to her probation officer, and listed my girlfriend’s home as her residence.

Now the probation officer calls my girlfriend up and hectors her unbearably. She threatens my girlfriend with police visits to her home and searchs. She threatens to have my girlfriend charged with crimes if the grown daughter doesn’t check in with the probation officer on schedule.

My poor girlfriend had no idea what she was getting into when she let her daughter come home. She’s a grandmother many times over, has a serious heart condition and generally doesn’t need the garbage. My girlfriend is a clean living, law abiding woman with a loving disposition. She and her husband, (2nd husband, not the father of this daughter) are being abused by this power mad probation officer.

No one seems to understand that the mother of this petty criminal and her husband aren’t on probation. They’re retired people with clean records. Ironically, the husband is a retired police officer.

Every family has its bad apples. There’s no excuse for abusing the families.

Ox Drover

When my son killed the girl he murdered and was arrested, the detective on the case called my house and spoke to me like I HAD KILLED HER AND DRANK HER BLOOD. I was already devestated, worse than I would have been if my son was DEAD, and this man kicked me emotionally like a Nazi SS guard. The trauma of it was more than I could bear!

I have no doubt that my P-son in his arrogance had thoroughly pissed off the detective. I am not for sure, but I actually dont’ think they even offered him a “deal” as he went to trial—whether that was because he was too arrogant to cop to a lesser charge or thought he could “beat the rap” I am not sure, but he went to trial. We knew he was going to trial but he lied to us about the date, or we would have been there. He sure did NOT want us at the trial. His attorney told me the evidence presented at the trial, and I can imagine anything “better” unless they had a confession or a video tape of the murder. They had him dead to rights. No doubt about that.

I am so sorry for your friend and her husband, and I am sure I would have had something along that line myself if my son had come home, but fortunately he never got out. The parole system doesn’t in general help the parolee make it in life but more harasses them than anything. Our whole penal system in my estimation is a CRIMINAL “justice” system….it lets the really guilty eventually get out, and the ones that might be saved get worse. There is a Christian program though that a minister friend of mine works with that has a 10% return to prison rate.


Oxy and Elizabeth: Reading your blogs, it seems that the people who deal in the penal system should be made mandatory that they take a 1 month – 1 1/2 months leave from duty just to clear their heads, hearts, and souls out. I think working in this environment has them all wrapped to tightly. It reminded me of when my Angel Starr at work gave me a shoulder and kneck massage at my desk. I didn’t realize how much daily work stress had piled and piled and piled … until she released the pressure with her massage. I think what you two are witnessing is obvious stress and rpessure created by their jobs. Taking a 1 or 2 week vacation never revives anyone. 1 week on vacation, you are still in work mode… sencond week, you are starting to get into the grove that you are indeed on vacation and you finally realize you are not at work, 3 week of vacation … you are definately cruising in the vacation state of mind … 4th week, forget it … you’re never going back to work (LOL) … AOL … AOL … AOL … never going back again. 5th and 6th week … you died and went to heaven.

Well since people who work in the penal system are so stressed out daily, monthly, yearly with the anti-social characters all the time, I’m sure they are bouncing off the walls. Imagine our bloggs about our anti-social personality disasters … well amply that daily … for your career! Dealing with anti-socials all the time … I’d go off the deep end. I couldn’t wait for this to end with me … they can’t have their anti-social contacts to end … it’s their career!

I’ve got a migraine just thinking about working in the penal system … I have a cousin who’s a doctor in it and her husband is a guard … so are all their friends.

Funny everyone notices that this cousin or her husband don’t smile very much any more.

Peace … just a thought.


I had to stay in jail for 5 days. Now this is just Jail , county . They packed as many as 90 people into space designed for 48! It’s about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ! period!
When you put Rats in a cage, What happens? They eat each other!
America has more people incarcerated than any other country in the world! Why?
Because of $$$$$$$$ and Greed!

Elizabeth Conley

Dear Wini,

I know it sounds like I’m putting every guard down, and that’s not fair. As you say, they’re under a tremendous amount of stress. People can be attracted to the job for rational reasons. In some rural counties the prison is the only available “industry”, or at least the biggest employer. Plenty of people keeping family farms afloat work at prisons, and that’s just one example. Prisons employ a lot of people with degrees in psychology, medicine and social work. I imagine that the more idealistic a person is going into the job, the more scarred they must become by prison’s realities.

I don’t want to give the wrong impression about my girlfriend’s daughter. She’s just your garden variety “can’t get it together” teen who somehow found her way to 50 without pulling herself together. She’s in trouble for stupid, petty stuff. She probably wouldn’t be in so much trouble, but she’s got the personality of a blue crab. She could probably talk a judge into giving her the death penalty for jay walking!

For anyone who’s never fished for blue crabs, I’ll explain: oppositional defiant, routinely combative, uninhibitedly self-centered and consistently irritable. Of course, all these charming attributes keep her on the very bottom tier of the local economy. As you might imagine, she’s the employee from He!!. This doesn’t keep her mother from loving her, trying to be her advocate, and nursing her along.


Animals always get the rap
But it is the HUMAN animal that does what NO concience can concieve!
We relate what we think are choices to animals! They ( animals ) live by instinc!
People live by CHOICES to be or not to be!
The Psyco! is an animal living by instinc to survive they have no CONCIENCE therefor they use what ever means they have to survive!
These people where rutinely gotten rid of in history! from the begining!
BUT today they survive because we are civilized!
HOW incredibly IRONIC!
To allow a individual to destroy our lives and our society!
And we call it civilized!??????????????????LOVE JJ


The informants may very well be sociopaths or psychopaths themselves. That doesn’t mean that the accused are innocent.

Do you think that Psychos all stick together? Certainly they can be on both sides of court case! Two wrongs don’t make a right.

It may be just a matter of which side is more clever at presenting themselves as the innocent victims.


If you are interesting in knowing what working in the penal system can do to a person or how power can change a person, please google Phillip G. Zimbardo’s Stanford Prison Experiment. This famous experiment was conducted in 1971. It was slated to be a 2 week experiment, but had to be cut short after 6 days. College students were randomly chosen to be guards or prisoners. These were psychologically sound young men. What ensued during the six day experiment speaks to how power, strength and authority is intrepreted by individuals. Please take the time to look at this experiment. It may your change your personal definition of human nature.


This is a really facinating thread about the psyche’s of those in “law inforcement”.

My ex P is a cop in a small town (where the judge in our divorce requires me to continue to live while my children are still in school). Before he became a cop he was an army officer who was involved in the invasion of Panama back in the 90’s.

He is by far the sickest, most deviant human being I know. He EASILY passed the psychological testing required to become a cop.

When his “mask” dropped and I filed for divorce, he used every psychological torture tactic he had learned in the army and for use in “interrigation” of prisoners on me. His intention was to push me to the breaking point. It worked.

He enlisted the entire police force in his agenda to demean and demoralize me. I was stalked, harrased and had my reputation smeared throughout the town until I was unable to safely even go to the grocery store. Police cars were parked in front of my house daily to intimidate me and make me fearful. My attorney filed injunctions, but they did no good. These law enforcement officials live by that quote of Nixon’s ; “It’s not illegal if I/The President do/does it.

I’ve been in therapy for several years for the PTSD this caused. Luckily my therapist understands this relationship between law enforcement and the kind of people attracted to the job. The majority of them are Bullys, often N’s/P’s and S’s who relish the idea of having COMPLETE AUTHORITY TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE OTHERS WITHOUT IMPUNITY.
You should have seen the X’s demeanor change when he put his uniform on. Putting on each piece was a power-trip. Something almost sexually obscene to watch.

This may sound paranoid. I know that some people in this field truly want to be of service, but they are a small minority. Easily intimidated by the more powerful psychos. It’s truly a mistake to think of these people as “protectors”.


stillsortingitout: Yup, they do find their way in all professions. Good folks in said professions have to always take the brunt for the bad apples in every profession.

It was so bad with the Bully cops in the town I live in … that if I got pulled over for a broken light or something on my vehicle, I would drive all the way home and have them give me the infraction ticket in my driveway. No way, during that time they were running a muck in uniform in our town, would I just pull over for them … cause you never know what you were dealing with.

Yeas later, the FBI had to come in to help this police force due to the drug gangs. While they cleaned up the streets, they must have cleaned up the police department while they were at it … either that, or it’s due to the new police chief not putting up with the strong arm tactics against regular citizens. Whatever happened, I run into decent cops in our town now … they must have weeded out the bad guys in their ranks.

It takes time, but I do see things changing for the better in our state. In the last few years our local news channel show they are yanking those that don’t befit their positions and doing anti-social stuff in their private lives … yanked off their thrones.

You just have to pray and have faith. On God’s time frame, not ours.

I’m sorry to hear about your ordeal with your EX. Yeah, they do bring in the good ole boy network, don’t they? I had so many good ole boys looking down at me, talking down to me … they actually treated me like some street walker … and I know I’ve never conducted myself as such. Not in the workplace, nor in my private life. Everything they said, everything they did, showed me who I was dealing with. I knew that they were playing mind games and wanted to break me. I just prayed all the time for God to be there with me … and I always, always acted like a lady. I always gave them respect even though they never extended the same.

Peace. You will heal from this horrific saga in your life. Pray for you EX too … he needs it. Pray for those buddies of his that helped him in his intimidation techniques … cause they are too, just bullies like your husband … because anyone decent, never would have played along with it. I hope you have names and badge numbers of all that played this technique on you … give it to your lawyers so that he can insure the courts know their names, rank and file numbers.

In the mean time. Pamper yourself. You deserve it. I used to take long hot bubble baths and soak in my hot tub … which ever was more convenient at the time the stress was unbearable.


wisernow: I will look at the site you mentioned. Right now, I’ll tell you my opinion … ABSOLUTE POWER, CORRUPTS ABSOLUTELY.

That’s why, no matter what the career, no matter what company … a ROTATION … change of positions should be mandatory so the fifdoms can’t be established in the first place.

Work a year here … work a year there … never having the same two people working in proximity of each other until years down the road … this way, the networking doesn’t get a chance to get off the ground. Everyone stays on their toes because they don’t get buddy, buddy to know each other well to do the setting up … gang up mentality. It will force everyone’s hands to just go to work and do your job.

There’s always a resolution to any problem. People just have to step back and see the bigger picture.

I know in my situation, those lower level managers worked together for over 20+ years. Twenty years of getting to know and trust each other. Then when they took over and ousted all the decent bosses … they ensured all the checks and balances were gone so they could do the rest of their damage. What a mess.



Elizabeth Conley: I wasn’t questioning what you wrote. I was giving another side to the coin. I was thinking if dealing with anti-socials in our personal lives is/was stressful … it must be incredibly stressful for those that work with them daily.

It comes down to rotation, rotation, rotation. Keeping them in the same field of their chose, but giving them a variety of routines to collect their paychecks. One year they are in this capacity … rotate, now you are on a desk job … relieving the stress … next year after that … we need you in research or we need you for checking in prisoners … the next year … you’re back on the line, but in another capacity. Always rotating their jobs and the employees … so they can’t get to have the collusion starting among themselves.

Hey, personnel officers need to get off their butts and do something for their paychecks instead of being backup to management all the time … like scheduling employees rotations of job duties and locations for the next 30 years … then of course have the checks and balances on these personnel officers too. Everyone has a checks and balances over their jobs.

Rotation of duties and rotation of employees … not having 2 employees located in the same place within the next 30 years.



The Stanford Prison Experiment has been shown to be horribly flawed and not something I would say is a good example of what working in the penal system is like.

I have worked in maximum security prisons for years as a officer and later as a social worker. And unless a person has done the job it is next to impossible to explain what it is like. It is also like other professions in that there are good people, bad people, and so/so people in the various jobs. Each facility is similar to others but also unique from all others.

I personally do not find that most law enforcement officers are anything other than professionals doing a nasty job that most people have no understanding of nor could they do themselves. People’s perspectives are often based on what they personally have experienced in life and they then generalize that to the world and that is often a mistake. Law enforcement deals with criminals every day and this can change their perspective just like people who have been abused by law enforcement can have their perspectives changed by it. The truth is there are anti-social folks in every profession.

Wini you said it must be incredibly stressful for those that work with them daily.

You are right. Our medical director released a study our department had done that stated the the average lifespan for an officer was in their 50’s. Ouch. I had a co-worker come to me once (I was our union and eap rep) because he had transferred in to doing the assessments/treatment of the sex offenders were before he had not. He and his wife had just had a child not that long ago. When he came into my office he had what looked like burn blisters on his fingers and he explained that when he gets really stressed these blisters occur. He talked about how he was starting to have nightmares, trouble sleeping, and a number of other problems just from hearing the details of the offenses and he did not think he could keep doing it. He transferred back to his previous position. So yes it can be very very stressful.

And your suggestion about rotating is not feasible for many jobs for many reasons but especially in a correctional and law enforcement setting.

But you did point out something that is often missing from many and that is accountability, checks and balances. One bad apple can corrupt an entire culture of a place and while many may go along with the bad acts they themselves are often not “bad” people.

And cases like this one mentioned here just show that anyone and everyone can be conned. Even those that know about psychopaths can still be conned.

Ox Drover


The interactions I have had with guards/wardens as the mother of an inmate may be a skewed view of things, but some of the institutions I have visited in I have been treated worse than I would think inmates would be treated, and I had done no crime other than give birth to a man who did.

I also have friends who do Christian missionary work in the prisons in Texas and their experiences with guards has been worse than with inmates. BTW, their program only has a 10% rate of return to prison for their “graduates”–which I think is very good. IN a recent newsletter from their program, during the recent lock down when an inmate on the Texas death row called a legislator on his CELL PHONE and cursed him out!!! In the area where “their” prisoners are housed, there was not a single cell phone or weapon found during the shake down which netted hundreds of phones and weapons. The worst “contraband” found on “their unit” was too many books (over what was allowed in a cell.)

You ARE RIGHT that anyone and everyone can be conned, even professionals in the law and mental health fields, the bloggers on here are PROOF OF THAT!

I worked for a year and a half in a high scress job at a mental health facility with adolescents (mostly borderline personality disordered teenager) and they were quite violent and I almost got stabbed by one inmate. It was a very jail-like atmosphere with a great deal of violence from this population, and unfortunately, I thought it was God’s way of telling me I needed to find another job before I got killed. It amazed me what the kids would come up with to get around rules. We even had an escape where one of the kids threatened an officer, and was only brought back in hand cuffs, after he was subdued with a gun pointed at him.

In a population of about 60 kids, we only had one kid who was truly psychotic, the rest were personality disordered, some as young as 8 or 10 years old, and dangerous as heck.

One minute they would be wanting to be hugged, and the next seriously trying to hurt you, then immediately back to wanting to be hugged. Disturbing to say the least. I did learn one thing in my tenure there though, and that is that there are some kids who have done worse things than my son, who “only” murdered one girl. I felt such empathy for the parents of these kids who were trying to move heaven and earth to “save” their kids and their own sanity. I KNOW HOW THEY FELT/FEEL. It is very painful, VERY painful.


Ox it does not surprise me that you have had such a bad experience. I have found that when a person, even when they are an adult, has been locked up they knee jerk blame the parents. Psychopath? must be the parents fault, they must have abused him, neglected him, not raised him right, etc. Even though that may not be the truth people often do not even consider it and treat thr relatives badly because of it. And don’t get me wrong I have met a lot of awful officers and wardens but I have also met a lot more who were not.

And I have met inmates who had come from normal healthy families and backgrounds yet they still turned out to be criminals. Those parents are the ones I were really sad to see.


Oxy, sounds like some of the thugs I worked with. If you looked at them cross-eyed, they mouth off to you … like we were in High School!. Thank God we were in work, because if they flared up like that on the streets, with no threat of loosing their jobs, they could have or would have done some serious damage. And the bosses loved these characters. Go figure.

Oh, and people don’t realize what an influence peers are on folks escalating their nasty behaviors so they can fit in with the group. All the thugs hung out with each other … and became the inner circles for every where in worked. It was incredible how they pretended to be such wonderful mature adults and soon as stab you if they could. I had to actually call 9-11 during a confrontation of an employee flipping out. I had one guy actually physically grab me … he did touch me but I pulled my hand back … then took off into the bosses office … where this idiot wanted to bring the two of us into a conference room. I said what are you crazy … I had more of a chance to get away from this guy, yeah, but now put us in a closed conference room so he can finish me off … then what, say you’re sorry later as I’m in traction in a hospital? Give me a break with idiots they promote cause they are buddy’s of someone. My boss stood 5 foot something, 90 lbs soaking wet. No chance, no chance what-so-ever could she do anything to prevent this guy from physically assaulting me. She couldn’t even get him to stop verbally assaulting me. This guy was so flared up and out control. What are some people thinking? And, if they weren’t after me in the first place … maybe, just maybe of my co-workers could have dialed 9-11. But no. They just acted like nothing happened.

Our place of work was the inmates were running the asylum.


Ox Drover

Dear Blogger,

It is easy to “blame” parents for not raising their children right when they turn out “bad”—the “environment” thing has been what is “politically correct” for a long time, supposing that a baby is a “blank slate” on which environment writes.

None of us are perfect parents, God knows I wasn’t one, but I did do the best I could and gave a great deal of THOUGHT and effort into being a good parent, and modeling good behavior and teaching good behavior to my children–both natural children, adopted son, and foster kids. I’ve won some and lost some, but don’t overly blame myself for my kids’ bad traits, or take credit for the good ones either.

Wini, the “gang” mentality or “crowd” mentality of watching someone being abused was shown in the Kitty Genovese murder where several dozen people watched this woman be killed outside their windows and NO ONE CALLED 911 while she fought for her life. This was in Chicago I think in the 70s or early 80s, might have even been in the 60s. I do know that it made the national news and there were numerous studies done on crowd mentality. If you are being attacked, appaently if there are one or two people present they are more likely to help you than if there are 20 there, apparently the idea is that each one of the 20 will wait for someone else to make the first move and it ends up no one helps you.

I think too, the guards become jaded in their interactions with people in general. They are with criminals all day and many of them psychopaths, so they react to everyone as they do to the inmates. It is a sort of “us” and “them” mentality I think.

The studies that have been done on taking two groups of people and labeling one of them “guards” and one” prisoners” then watching how they interact and how the guards become callous to “inmates.” The other studies that have been done on how people can be made to “torture” others are also interesting, in how “normal” people can be influenced by “authority” figures to torture and mistreat others.

I have read a great deal written by prisoners of war on how they were treated by the Germans and Japanese, etc. and the attrosities that were committed. The things that our own American soldiers did to the prisoners in Cuba recently were also indicitive of the “us” versus “them” mentality where the prisoners were no longer considered human by at least some guards.

I can also see how these young soldiers could come by that sort of thinking when the tapes of people like reporter Daniel Pearl having his head sliced off on video. Having spend some time in third-world countries where life is not as “valuable” as it is consicered here in the US, I also realize what a THIN veneer of “civilization” we have, all of us. We are all human and no matter how loving and kind we think we are, we can still be emotionally and mentally brainwashed by our enviroments and our associations with others. We can be habituated to accept things that we think we couldn’t, I think just because we think we are “above” these things, doesn’t mean we are. Look at the abuse that most of us were habituated into taking from the Ps.


That is why it is so difficult for outsiders to GET!
I sound like the CRAZY one when I tell what I indured and still kept taking Him back they can’t get the idea and to say you where brainwashed by someone that goes over real well too


This coming Thursday on OPRAH con artist – scam artist – and fraud – yeah I watch Oprah at nite at 11pm

Ox Drover

I don’t know how many of you guys are old enough to remember the Patty Hearst kidnapping, but these guys kidnapped her and made her participate in a robbery of a bank, through Stockholm Syndrome, and she ended up spending time in PRISON.

No one in the community had ever heard of Stockholm syndrome and even with her family’s money and the best defense money could buy, she still went to jail.

There is no telling how many women have ended up in prison (probably more than men) who have had Stockholm syndrome and participated in their husband’s/BF’s abuse of others and ended up dead or in prison.

It is confusing for me, and believe me I know what it is to be “brainwashed” by the enablers and the psychopaths, but does that excuse what I do when I am in that state? It is a mess, and if you take “joe Plumber” and put him in a jury chair how on earth is he or she going to figure out all this stuff with the defense saying one thing and the prosecution saying another?

Henry, watching OPRAH will ROT YOUR BRAIN, it is almost like Dr. Phil or some of the Judge shows! LOL Day time TV is producing brain dead folks—how about Jerry Springer! LOL ROTFLMAO


LOL Hahahaa I feel the same way , TV is Horrable espcially for your Brain! I read I think On MSN that studies show TV Worsens Depression !
But Not All ! Opra’s show on the Forgiveness of a father towards His Son is what led me Here!
The Psyciatrist said Psycopathy was learned behavior? I Questioned this and did my Search!
Like you said If Friggin Experts ( self-called ) cai’nt agree because they are experuts ! Then Joe Whosoever ain’t gona have a friggin CLUE when the Victims talk about Mindcontrol , Brainwashed , and years of abuse ! It sounds alot like HOGWASH or Washing my JEEP before I go Mudding ! LOVE JJ


You sure know how to punish yourself! Amazing!
first your life as a child w/mom
Then Prision guard and social worker ! It is a mirical that you are alive ! Does your family history have some very longlived men? I dont know your age but even if you made it to my age ! Congrats! You are a rare breed! Happy Holidays! LOVE JJ


BloggerT: They are criminals because they want to be criminals. Period.

They know right from wrong … but it’s selfishness and greed again … then eventually, it becomes laziness … doing what’s wrong because they figure they will get away with it … and as long as they do get away with what they know they are doing wrong … it’s all fine. It’s amusing to them how they can outsmart everyone. Then when they get caught … oh, it’s childhood abuse that caused me to do this! Abuse, nothing. It’s their own BIG egos … not being humble, thinking they are so much better than everyone else … we’re all schmucks for following the rules … doing what is right. And as long as they get what they want (selfish), when they want (greed), any time they want (impatience) … they are fine with doing criminal activities… as long as they don’t get caught.

Then they play everyone, for everything and anything they want. When you figure them out … they just smile, but they were still trying to shove their antics on you … that you had to pay for it. Some one always has to pay for when they do wrong. It’s a free ride for them.



I agree Wini. There may be some mitigating circumstances but when all is said and done most people know right from wrong and they made a poor choice. When a person becomes an adult they also become responsible for their own life choices. If they have issues with anger, drugs, abuse, etc it is their responsibility to seek help and change their behavior.

I would suggest a book that has some interesting materials in it if you have not already read it. I may not agree with everything in it but he does get, I think, a lot right when it comes to the criminal way of thinking:

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