By | April 18, 2011 92 Comments

The Lovefraud reader “Ox Drover” on Aftermath Radio today

Lovefraud’s very own “Ox Drover” will be on Aftermath Radio today, interviewed by Dr. Robert Schug. Dr. Schug is assistant professor of criminal justice and forensic psychology at the California State University at Long Beach. He is on the board of the Aftermath Surviving Psychopathy organization, which operates an online forum for victims of psychopaths.

The show is hosted on KBeach, the Internet radio station of California State University at Long Beach. The show airs from 7 to 8 p.m. EST. To listen on the Internet, go to KBeach radio, click the Listen Live button, and select either Windows or Mac. And if you do, you’ll find out who “Ox Drover” really is!

KBeach radio

This is a call-in show, so if you have questions or comments, please join the conversation at 562-912-3541.

For more information about Aftermath Radio and to listen to podcasts of past shows, visit:

Aftermath Radio



Comment on this article

Please Login to comment
Notify of
Ox Drover

Okay guys here it is, I was gonna post a link but Donna already did it for us….I’ll only be on for about 15 minutes from 15 minutes after the show starts top the half way mark. If you miss it live it will be on their podcast I think is what it is called. With my limited internet I don’t listen to radio or watch vids. I went over last month not sure why, and it cost me more than my entire monthly hook up just for a TINY bit over my allotment. WOW! can’t do that again!


Ok guys. I did need an idiots guide here please. I selected ‘windows’ but all I get is music! Help!

Ox Drover

Candy, I am techniologically challenged—hell I can’t even spell it! They are callling me tonight at 6:00 p.m. CENTRAL time and I will start talking about 6:15 and they will interview me for 15 minutes til about 6:30 my time…that is all I know. LOL


Cheers Ox. We’re rubbing shoulders with a celebrity. Whoop. Good luck:)

raggedy ann

“Don’t bother me right now! I’m listening to an important interview on KBeach. K, Beatch???”


Here is a link to all the radio programs, including Donna Anderson and Liane Leedoms on K Beach Radio.
If you miss Miss Corset wearing Oxy tonight……BTW….Westcoasters that’s 4PM……..start time…..
then the show should be available at this link!

Be there…..or be square!


Thanks for the help guys. Miss Corsett ((((((very funny)))))))
I’m off to bed so I’ll have to tune in Tues night Erin.
Ohhhhhhhhh it’s soooooooooo exciting.

Ox Drover

EB, don’t make fun of the corsets hunny bun, they keep the back straight and the twins from sagging and dragging…but I did forget my “modesty shawl” which is essentially a big cotton scarf that goes over the BACK of your neck and my neck sunburned sometin’ arwful cause my mob cap held my bouncy hair up off my neck! So when I realized I was sunburning I used a cotton dish towel to cover the back of my neck. Ya uses what’s handy!

You calling me “miss corset” is funny, as we all have “camp names” for something that pertains to our character or something funny we have done. I used to be called “the Ox Lady” because they could always remember the old woman with the oxen, then after the oxen went to that big BBQ in the sky and I got the donkeys (asses) my “camp name” is now the “BAD ASS WOMAN”—but I am not sure the name is related to the asses or if they just are insulting me! LOL


Good thing you had the corset laced up tight……because when the boobies get burned it itches!!!! Not to mention the horrible tan lines from the corset laced up the front!!!

Go getem girl!!!! GO GETEM!



This is really great! I have listended to their show since it’s inception, and it has been so helpful to my own personal growth and healing process! I will definitely be tuning in to hear your voice (and what you have to say). How awesome it will be to have the oportunity to get even more aquainted with you, in a sense!

All the best, tonight!!


Ox Drover

EB, the outfits we wear are anything but flattering. Even when I wasn’t a chubette, my son looked at my first living history outfit and said “Makes you look like a fat German housewife” LOL Actually he wasn’t far from wrong, I had on a German 1830s lady’s day cap. Now I wear a mob cap which is just a circle with a draw string around it and it perches on my head like an upside down bowl with some edging. I have my little brass magnifying glasses on my neck with a string so I don’t lose them instead of my dollar store plastic ones….

My chemesis which is sort of like a granny night gown and a skirt over it, with a POCKET on a string hung around my wiast…skirts didn’t have pockets then, you wore them separate. Since I am an old woman, Scots Irish, and work clothes, I wear my skirts a bit shorter than the English women did…so you can see my lace up work boots or even sometimes some sock. My apron is white with a bib front but it PINS up, there is no neck strap…and over all this I wear a day coat which is just a big one size fits everyone coat which is PINNED shut in front, then over that a “modesty scarf” which will keep the back of your neck from being exposed and burned. If you weighed 100 pounds and were 6 ft tall, it would make you look like you weighed 400 pounds and if you are doing things RIGHT you have on petti coats and bloomers under the skirts but I only wear those in the winter time…in the summer I don’t.

lesson learned


Good Luck! Looks like I’ll miss it but don’t know how long it takes for them to put it into podcast to where I can.




Go mamma!
Good job!!!

Hope to heal

Oxy ~ Great job!! You are truly amazing!!

lesson learned

(((((((( EB!!! )))))))))))))

Me TOO! I didn’t think I’d get to hear it, wouldn’t be home in time, but I busted ass to get here! WOOT!

(((( OX ))))))))) AWESOME! Felt like I was sittin in your livin room!!

OH wait…………or you were sittin in mine!

Great job!

Just wish the interview had been longer!!


Hope to heal

EB ~ you’re doing great too!! AWESOME!!

Ox Drover

Glad you guys caught it….Your own voice never sounds to yourself like it does when it is recorded….I sound like such a hick I swear! I am not able to get the show on my computer, I’m not sure what I am doing wrong, it says “invalid station request” so would loved to have heard the first part and the last part of the show. I did get the aftermath radio page on the thing though (thanks, EB for the link)

He seems like a really cool guy, I’ve talked to him quite a bit on the phone and in e mails.

Trying to sum up my story though in 15 minutes is sort of like trying to condense War and Peace to 250 words or less. LOL


I wanted to talk to OXY!!!!!!!
Call in guys…..they take calls!!!!!

raggedy ann

Great job, Oxy. 🙂
Oxy has so much more to offer than what little time they gave her. I hope Dr. Schug will read this thread and they will have her again soon.

hey wait! Now Erin is talking! What?

Something really struck me in the middle of your interview, Oxy. People love to condemn the Catholic Church of the 1970’s and 80’s or 90’s for the way sexual-abuser priests were circulated from diocese to diocese, but quite often the same people will express ideas about criminals and their rehabilitation, or are completely ignorant (like I was) that you can’t “save” a person who does X and Y and Z, “X and Y and Z” being the descriptors of psychopaths or sociopaths. Drawing an analogy between these things may be one way to get people to integrate these ideas and then “get” the impossibility of reforming an S or P.

(I see the Catholic Church’s failure early on as forgivable, as the sin was one of utter naivetee regarding the impossibility of transforming these sinners. But there would have come a time when there was no more excuse for further failing to understand that these priests would continue to be a danger to whatever children they came in contact with and there was no hope for them, given what statistics and science were revealing. I am just not sure when/where that year would have roughly been — obviously it would be an individual judgment call.)

raggedy ann

You can see what a slow typist I am, lol

I’ll have to listen to the podcast of the show to give EB my fuller attention…

Ox Drover


Yes, the church is supposed to be about redeeming sinners, even bad BAAAAAD sinners, but there is a problem….even Jesus said that you have to look at the FRUITS of a “tree” (actions of a person) to see whether the tree is good or bad—not just their words. We must not be fooled into thinking that everyone wants forgiveness or to change.

I saw that my son was going to wreck his life if he kept on like he was going, doing stupid petty crime—but he had to show me that I could not control him, so he got worse and did worse crimes…of course he got caught but that was my fault. They take no responsibility.

The church MUST TAKE responsibility for its employees whether they are the cleaning lady or the priest or the Pope himself, who appears to be somewhat implicated in some of the cover ups…these people can be “forgiven” just NOT ALLOWED TO ASSOCIATE WITH CHILDREN…ever again. Their CRIMES must not be hidden, whether it is robbing a bank, or molesting a child they are still CITIZENS. If you (a citizen) rob a bank or molest a child and I know about it it is MY DUTY AS A CITIZEN to turn you into the police….no matter who I am or how I am related to you. I turned in my own son for robbery, I would do it again.

And Governor Arnold Swarts-o-path on his last day as governor of california DECREASED THE SENTENCE OF HIS FRIEND’S SON FOR MURDER BY 9 YEARS—- PROUD OF HELPING OUT HIS BUDDY BY GETTING HIS MURDERING KID OUT OF JAIL IN 7 YEARS INSTEAD OF 16—of course he did it on his last day as governor too. WHAT A PIECE OF CARP!!!!!


Raggedy Ann….
I wanted to ask the question to Oxy…..but I guess they weren’t taking questions for her.
So I blabbered on……
Something i’m reaaal good at!!!


Hi Oxy,
You sounded great! I came in at about 3/4 of the way through your interview. I wish I could heard the whole thing from the start. I love your accent!

I heard EB right from the start, she did a darn good job too!

Interesting to hear the actual voices of the people hear.


One thing which disgusts me about Spaths family….and believe me there is more than one…..IS
They are Mormon.
His step Mother was abused by him (as his main target prior to me) for YEARS!
He played big mind fuck games on her…..starting with accusing her of tortoruous abuse.
He also has used his brothers identity’s unbeknownst to them…..(and I believe he may have recently taken out credit in youngest brothers name of which I was receiving mail for and informed youngest bro)
He’s taken what he’s wanted and felt entitled to whatever they have.
He’s hidden his covert illegal activities behind them all…just like he did us…..and put them ALL in danger……from thugs AND the law.
YET…..they all still ‘support’ the downtrodden victim portraying spath.
Spath is currently living in MIL’s house as she is living in her sons due to losing her husband.
What the HELL are they thinking……they ALL know he’s a drug dealer….it’s NOT a secret to them. They all know he’s facing felony counts in another state……THEY ALL KNOW……

I had a conversation with MIL during the divorce….and she said she was going to her Bishop for emotional guidance on dealing with son…..
The Bishop asked her how old is your son?
She said 45!
He thought they were talking about a teenager!!!!!!

They fall on the bible thumping crap and keep him in the family.
BUT…..NONE OF THEM HAD issues dismissing the kids!!!!!

His brother told me…..I don’t like what he does….but he’s still my brother and blood is thicker than water……I SAID….so what….are the kids a THINNED OUT-WATERED DOWN part of your BLOOD LINE?

Mormon shhhhmormon!!!!

It’s a bunch of CRAP they hide behind!!!


Wow, i didn’t know that Aftermath Radio show existed; wonderful!

Ox Drover

I’m gonna have to figure out how to listen to the pod cast so I can hear the show.

What question did you want to ask me EB? I’ll answer just about anything, but you know most of everything about me, and now you know my name….I finally figured I’d come out of the closet….


I would have NEVER thought of you as a Magnolia ThunderKitty!!! 🙂

I just wanted to ask you a leading question for dialogue.

raggedy ann

Oh, EB, I was thinking maybe you were another pre-arranged interview but left it as a surprise. I am looking forward to hearing the podcast.

Oxy, absolutely I agree that the Church must be held accountable for any way that they have sent abusers into the midst of unsuspecting communities. But before some point in history, I would regard the Church is not warranting much more condemnantion than I myself warrant for starting out not understanding that liars/hurters/cheaters can only be counted on to continue doing the same to you. Because once upon a time, I really did not understand this. I don’t know if it was Christianity, secular humanism, Walt Disney, political correctness, the failure of my parents or teachers, something else, or some combination of these that is/was to blame, but I cannot condemn myself for my lack of understanding about how much bigger sociopathy is than my my own ability to save anybody.
I think that the understanding of recidivism in various behaviors/populations has *only* come from science and statistics. There has to have been a point in the past up to which humans, including Church leaders, understood as little about criminals and sexual offenders as I did at 30 about dealing with a sociopath.

Ox Drover

Dear R-ann,

I think children in some cultures are brought up too sheltered and too trusting of others….or maybe there is some genetic tendency in people with too much empathy just as there is a genetic tendency in them for too little empathy.

“The Church” is made up of PEOPLE though and I am using that not only for the Catholic church but for ALL Churches….and people have to be educated about what is “right and wrong”—cultures change, evolve, What is considered right and wrong changes. Look at the US 150 years ago there were people who thought slavery was okay and it was legal…today most of us think it is evil, but there are still people in the US today in illegal slavery, in fact there are MILLIONS OF SLAVES IN THE WORLD TODAY in every country of the world. India I think tops the numbers but even here in our country there are slaves held in sexual or work bondage just as badly as before the Civil war here.

So part of what is “right” and “wrong” with how the church leaders treated others, covered up “sins” and “crimes” has happened since day one, but the culture has changed so that the church no longer is a political power in most areas now like it was. There was a time when the Catholic c hurch burned people at the stake for their beliefs just like some of the Muslims today behead people who violate their religious views of what is “right”—a young girl was beaten to death the other day in Indonesia by her Muslim neighbors as an adultress because she was raped by her neighbor—he escaped essentially unharmed. They thought they were doing right to punish this girl. Does that make it right? Should they be punished for doing what they thought was right? Even though it was against the law?

Sure, we didn’t realize that there ARE people in the world who are EVIL and they don’t have horns or forked red tails, but NOW WE DO KNOW and now we need to learn to protect ourselves by spotting these people early on and setting boundaries on how we allow others to treat us.

lesson learned


Your real name and voice didn’t surprise me in the slightest.

The only thing i thought while listening was “shit, I’d not want to meet her in a dark alley, on an open field or in the middle of the street either!”

Lol! You’re one tough cookie, Ox, but I don’t think the interview was long enough. GIven that we know the story, it was SERIOUSLY condensed………..



OH MY ThunderKitty is coming out of the closet? Where’s my camera?

Ox Drover

MEOW!!!!!!! LOL Yea, you know, I’m tired of hiding behind THE SHAME FOR WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS DONE! I’m not the one who should be ashamed.


Oh My


Dang – I’m on east coast temporarily and I missed it! I bet it was wonderful…

Used to listen to this show religiously (no pun intended, considering some previous comments 😉 ), but haven’t much since the holidays when the day changed from Tuesdays to Mondays without my realizing it, and all the while wondering where it’d gone when I would try tuning in.

Then saw this post, but too late, darn it! Would have loved to listen, but will do my due diligence to exercise patience until the podcast is uploaded to the Aftermath Radio site, just as I did when noticing that Donna was on a prior show that I missed (excellent episode, of course!).

Will be on the lookout for its podcast rebroadcast at


OH MY!!!!! MY!!!!!!


I had too much to do today and missed the radio show. 🙁
when the podcast comes out, someone please post it.

Hey I wonder if I should have my parents listen to this. What do you think Oxy? I didn’t hear it so I don’t know what you said, but I’ve told them about your story and they are always fascinated.

super chic

I just got home and did not get to hear the interview.
I followed the link to the website… where do I look?
It’s not on there yet? Doh!


Doh! I missed this. Is there anywhere to hear it again on the internet?


Hang on, further to post from before – I was listening to the wrong show lol! >_< DOH! Haha! It's not broadcast on Podcast yet, by look of things, they only have the 4th April show there. But this is the link, anyhow: xxx

Ox Drover

I never did get the broadcast to play….I was not sure which “button” to click on to get it to play…to get anything to play….so I may not be doing things right some how….anyway, I guess I’ll just have to wait like the rest of you guys but I may need your help getting hooked up to it. LOL I know what I said (I think) but I want to hear EB and what Robert had to say on the rest of the show.

kim frederick

I went to the aftermath radio web-site looking for Oxy’s broadcast and decided to listen to some of the others. The one’s by the author of “Snakes in Suits,” are very good, but the One by Dr. Leedom stresses trauma bonding and is insightfull for anyone who is still hurting and yearning for their spath.

I look forward to listening to yours soon, Oxy.

Ox Drover

Kimmie, nothing you haven’t heard already….my part anyway, my “15 minutes of fame” LOL but I couldn’t get on the program on my computer to hear the rest of it or EB’s call in question…So I am going to have to wait the week or so til the pod cast comes up.

The guy who does the program, Robert S. is a really kind and nice guy. I enjoyed our conversations off line very much.

I hope that the Aftermath group with all their “high powered” names in research and PhDs can reach some avenues that are more likely to be closed to Donna because she doesn’t have PhD behind her name…like grant money for studies, etc.

Though actually, I think we as previous victims have EARNED OUR PhDs in psychopathy and in many ways may understand them as well or better at least in some practical areas than the “experts” with the PhDs. I do know that for gaining grant money etc. the “letters” are important and more research DOES NEED TO BE DONE!

More education needs to be done…law enforcement and the justice departments, prison commissions, family law lawyers and judges, and child care workers, social workers, all need to be educated to what is psychopathic….and that is going to take the PhDs to set the tone and the stage. Maybe they can start by agreeing on a NAME at least!

lesson learned


Thanks for sharing that about other shows that are there to listen too, particularly Dr. Leedom. I’ll have a listen to those.



When I change my name….after the house is settled and etc…is all settled….
It may be a good chance for me to change it to Erin Brock phd.
Then somebody MAY listen to me…..

HA….spath move huh?


Just some extra letters…..that’s all.

Ox Drover

Sometimes it means P-iled H-igher and D-eeper

raggedy ann

lol Oxy

speaking of lol,

I am concerned and distressed that no one seemed to like my “K, Beatch?” joke…

Ox Drover

I actually BELLY laughed over it…sorry I didn’t comment on it. I LOVE PUNS AND THAT WAS A GOOD ONE!!!

Send this to a friend