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By | July 19, 2010 348 Comments

The sound of abuse on the Mel Gibson tapes

The violent tirade spewing from the mouth of Mel Gibson may be shocking to the general public, but it is disturbingly familiar to those of us who have experienced such white-hot abuse up close and personal.

Five taped telephone conversations between Mel Gibson, the movie star, and Oksana Grigorieva, his former girlfriend and mother of his eight-month-old daughter, were posted last week on the celebrity gossip website RadarOnline.com.

A bit of background is in order. Gibson apparently left his wife of 28 years, Robyn Moore, with whom he has seven children, for Oksana.  In 2009, photos emerged of Gibson embracing Oksana on a beach in Costa Rica, and after that, Robyn Moore filed for divorce.

Oksana is a Russian pianist and singer-songwriter, who studied music in Moscow and London. She moved to the United States and wrote a hit song for Josh Groban. In 2009, she released an album called Beautiful Heartache; Mel Gibson was the executive producer and director of a music video for the album.

Oksana and Mel Gibson had a daughter in October 2009 who is now the subject of a child custody battle. Los Angeles police are also investigating an alleged incident of domestic violence that occurred in January 2010; Oksana filed a formal complaint a few weeks ago.

Extreme abuse

In February 2010, the abusive phone calls between Mel Gibson and Oksana Grigorieva allegedly took place. No one has confirmed that the voice on the phone is Mel Gibson, but no one has denied it either. The caller sure sounds like Mel.

And Mel sounds vile. He is beyond belligerent—he is raging, panting and hyperventilating. He cusses Oksana out. He calls her denigrating names”—whore” is one of the milder ones. He threatens to burn the house down—but first Oksana will give him sex.

What sparked the tirade? Apparently Oksana’s offense was falling asleep before Mel received the sexual gratification to which he felt entitled.

Five tapes, uncut and unbleeped, were posted on RadarOnline.com. They are disgusting. They are offensive. And for some of you, they may be triggers.  If you want to listen, please be sure that you’re strong enough.

What’s wrong?

So now there seems to be a new celebrity parlor game going on called, “What’s wrong with Mel?”

The Week magazine published a story called Diagnosing Mel Gibson: 4 theories. Lundy Bancroft called Mel Gibson a classic batterer. Some psychologists say he’s bipolar, others say he has a sociopathic personality. One therapist actually said Mel was feeling powerless.

Two Lovefraud readers sent in a link to an excellent article in the New York Times called The Gospel of Mel Gibson, by journalist David Brooks. Brooks says Mel is a narcissist:

The narcissistic person is marked by a grandiose self-image, a constant need for admiration, and a general lack of empathy for others. He is the keeper of a sacred flame, which is the flame he holds to celebrate himself.

And, as I wrote this post, an article was posted on People.com, entitled, Mel Gibson and Oksana Grigorieva: why their custody battle went nuclear. People quotes some unnamed source who said, “This is a case of a woman scorned.”

Are you kidding me? My guess is that the “unnamed source” was a spin doctor in Mel Gibson’s camp who was attempting damage control by painting the woman as the villain.

One variety of verbal abuse

The most helpful article, from Lovefraud’s point of view, was posted by Tina Brown on thedailybeast.com. She wrote:

If this tape is allowable in court it may happily be just the evidence needed to land him in jail for domestic abuse. This is no “he said, she said” argument now, it’s Mel, clear as a bell, admitting he hit Oksana “while she was holding a child in her hands” because she “f—- deserved it.”

It’s a payday for Oksana who, like every woman in a battle for child custody with a powerful man, finds herself painted as a lying opportunist. Most of the rancor coming Mel’s way so far has been about his racist comments. But his vile misogyny is more unsettling still. It’s as if a curtain has been raised on the window of every house where a frightened woman is living in fear of a man who has all the financial cards.

Sometimes, foaming-at-the-mouth rage of the alleged Mel Gibson tapes are what abuse sounds like. Other times, the abuse is calm, cold and collected. I hope another celebrity records an abusive partner who speaks in a cruel, calculating manner, so that people learn what that type of abuse sounds like as well.


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bulletproof

My God! He comes across as terrifying but as if he is acting …pauses…comes back and then goes beserk again…a kind of controlled madness? can you hear the control in his manner?

This is very confusing for me and I finally conclude…I have not a clue what is going on with Mel and Oksana, but GET THE BABY OUTTA THERE…to think a new born infant is in the middle of this is disgusting and unacceptable…to talk to a mother of an infant like this is diabolical …The baby needs a peaceful mother

One minute I’m thinking…She is so calm and collected, then he screams at her that she has no soul…and I am wondering if SHE is the psychopath scam artist driving narcissistic pampered Mel into hysterics…literally winding him up, pushing his buttons, lying to him, possibly gaslighting…who knows?? and he has gone doolally…she shows it to the world and says ” He is insane” who would disagree, he is totally nuts.

Then I’m hearing Mel as the frustrated thwarted sociopath who’s woman sees through his disguise, so she is defective and he is at the dumping stage..but this woman is not complying with him, she is clever and is not afraid of defending herself with taping the conversations, fearing for the life of her daughter publicly on tape is a very clever way of defending herself…Mel has threatened to KILL her several times in verbal abuse…he says: I will leave you in a Rose garden, I can do that, DO you understand…I can do that….Then she sounds as if she is going crazy…but she seems much calmer than him….it’s like he is trying to drive her over the edge and she just yawns in his face and stands up to him!

I do not know.

Confusing factors for me are: the panting, the RAGE on display…usually there is no hysterics from the sociopath, there is just the cold stone logic of an empty shell..they will be working their evil in the background not the foreground..what is missing for me in Mel’s affect is the covertness, the hidden calculated quality…this guy is all over the place.

The misogyny is what stands out for me. This man HATES this woman. He verbally attacks her sexuality, her body, her soul all in one horrible phonecall…I do not hear a woman scorned at all, I hear a woman asking to be left in peace…which sends HIM over the edge.

Oksana comes across as psychologically strong in the face of all this abuse…she refuses to apologise, she is clear that He is the one who is mad not her, she seems to just want peace and quiet to tend to her daughter and be treated with respect. She GAVE up everything for Mel, and He sees it as she TOOK everything from him….it’s insane. I hope she can break from him. I hope she gets a ton of money to look after herself and the baby…and MEL?

He is finished this time, I cannot see how he will ever get back in the publics good books ever again. If he is a sociopath, I would predict him wanting to kill Oksana but he can’t as the world is watching him…He really is a GOOD ACTOR lol and has made his fortune out of it…but he will never “own” a woman like Oksana…this will frustrate and thwart all his sociopathic urges and maybe that is why he is in meltdown? I will wait and watch before coming to any conclusions…

We would need to hear from Mel’s family…his ex wife, his kids, his close friends and likewise for Oksana…where is Timothy Dalton, her son…what are they saying?

Ox Drover

I don’t doubt for one second that MelGibson is a pampered Narcissist,, and possibly high in P traits.

There is just something about her “cool calm and collect4ed” that tells me 1) she kknnows she is being taped and she is getting Mel’s Buttons PUSHED so she gets maximum play for her money.

Her money—“HER” money— I think she is doing her best from the get go to get MONEY OUT of this relationship and she lured Mel out of the stoggy old marriage and quickly had a baby, to anchor her to Mel for the duration. Tim Dalton and she have a 6-7 year old boy.

Hey, and attention and publicity is always a good thing in Hollywood if you don’t blow it like Mel is blowing it. I figure though his keeping his mouth shut at this point is a good thing.

I think for what it is worth that this is a “gasoline and fire” and she has set Mel up and pushed his buttons, so I hope the two of them enjoy this little explosion and both of their psychopathic little hearts get what they deserve.

HeatherA

Love this section from the Tina Brown article:

We live in a culture of destructive transparency. Text messages leaked. Phone calls taped. Pictures uploaded in real time, and sound bites exploding on unsuspecting careers. But there’s an upside to our leaky, sneaky world. Vile, fraudulent bullies like Mel Gibson or free-range sex addicts like Tiger Woods can be exposed at last to the censure—and ridicule—they deserve. As Allred put it, “The Internet is very aggressive but it’s good in a way for women. Silence always favors the wrongdoer.”

It’s true, as Audre Lorde said: Your silence will not protect you.
Maybe Oksana is a gold digger, (you’d think someone as rich and powerful as Mel Gibson would check her out first) but no one deserves such abuse. It seems like no psychopath is so good that they never get exposed. It was Mel’s turn to have his mask ripped off.

Rosa

The last paragraph from the article above:

“Sometimes, foaming-at-the-mouth rage of the alleged Mel Gibson tapes are what abuse sounds like. Other times, the abuse is calm, cold and collected. I hope another celebrity records an abusive partner who speaks in a cruel, calculating manner, so that people learn what that type of abuse sounds like as well.”

That is what is so useful about these tapes.

We get to hear great examples of what BOTH types of abuse/manipulation sound like.

Yes, Oksana exposed Mel’s ugly abuse, but she also exposed her own.

We hear Mel’s “foaming-at-the-mouth” rage, which is OVERT ABUSE.

We also hear….if we listen closely enough…..the very subtle, “calm, cold, and collected” manner of Oksana’s COVERT ABUSE.

Oksana emasculates and devalues Mel on these tapes, only she is NOT shouting at the top of her lungs and calling him ugly names.
She does it via insidious gaslighting techniques.
And, because Mel is acting like a total lunatic, no one can see the covert abuse Oksana is inflicting into this situation.
In fact, Oksana’s covert abuse is completely overshadowed by Mel’s ugly rantings, which are on full display for EVERYONE to hear.
He played right into her hand.

If you are unable to pick up on Oksana’s covert abuse towards Mel, then I recommend the books, “Stalking the Soul” by Marie-France Hirigoyen or “The Gaslight Effect” by Robin Stern.

As far as I am concerned, these 2 deserve each other.

The way I am seeing it, we have the “Not-So-Street-Smart” Narcissistic Personality (Mel) who is clashing with a “VERY Street-Smart” Con-Artist (Oksana).

Oksana is actually trying to squeeze more $$ out of Mel on these tapes, if you actually listen to HER responses to Mel, instead of Mel’s manic statements.

And, I agree with you, OxDrover.
I feel so sorry for the innocent baby caught in the middle of this mess.

blueskies

Scary. I could only listen to the first 1 and a half. really horrible disgusting stuff – and you know who he sounds like? My mother when she doesn’t get things her own way. I’m serious. This is a narc in a tantrum projecting all their rage onto another and playing victim at the same time. My Narc mother would beat us up black and blue and call us ‘devil spawn’ (she’s an atheist) telling us that we had ruined her life for crying or not behaving perfectly in front of a new bf…. she screams and wails and threatens just like this over minor jealousy’s and slights or ‘showing her up’… and he is in a rage because his new ‘toy’ wasnt an atomaton-slave-bot too! he also sounds like he’s high or has been drinking (although my mother can produce this stuff without either too…) it disturbs me that she seem’s to playing him, drawing it out though…and not just putting down the phone but not sure what to make of her really.

I think Narcs are far more likely to rage openly like this than pure sociopaths…who tend to keep the appearence cool but hurt and kill you just as violently and with as much hate… but quietly…

The S/P let his hate show ‘openly’ once during the ‘relationship’ and once at the end. (He was hating me the whole time but I was missing it because it was smooth as sillk on the outside) it was odd, it was detatched controlled rage and was again quasi religious, like he had turned into the preacher from poltergeist (I saw him act like this with his 4 year old daughter once, “shame, shame on you!” in a southern preacher voice…nut job.) and during the discard there was hate with control, no panting or ‘losing it’ but all the same words were there that Mel or ED uses but no shouting…all very controlled…. he did pretend cry a couple of times…but that was ridiculous pretend wailing…
anyway….

waffled on for too long!:)x

BentNotBroken

One thing that really strikes me is looking at his pictures. I googled Mel and the psycho stare is haunting. Pull up Mel and Charles Manson side by side. Scary similar.

teacher123

Mel sounds like the victim of gaslighting as well. I have heard him also say in his tapes that he is seeing a therapist. She has probably made him out to be the crazy one, and it looks that way to all especially since she has the tapes to prove it. It looks pretty calculated to me. I am with Rosa that this Oksana is sneaky. Girls differ in their tactics of bullying than boys do, and I guess we see both at work here. Girls learn at an early age in school to exclude others as a way to hurt and ridicule them. I know I see it in school as a teacher. And I can also tell you from personal experience when someone withholds affection from you especially someone you trusted as a friend; a lover, or a spouse it can be really damaging. You would rather have your teeth punched in than to have your heart (affections) taunted with and ripped out to be played with like a toy. But I also agree with Oxy and Rosa here that they are both pretty dangerous. Who knows if she knew he was going to come to blows and put the baby in the way thinking that it would stop him. How do you stop 2 people hell bent on destroying each other?

Wini

I’m with teacher, Oksana is NO victim but a blood sucking predator herself. I’m tired of the media running this train wreck and portraying her as “a” VICTIM. It’s a slap in the face to the true victims in our world (women, as well as men). I’d have more respect if they started digging deeper and informed the public of both disorders since we are in the age of “disclosure”!

I say “shine the spotlights brightly on both personalities” and rip those masks off.

survivorlady

My ex spath phoned our house one day. The kids were home on summer holidays, they were 17 and 13. My ex had left us for good 2 months prior. He wanted to make contact with the kids, but the kids never picked up the phone because they knew he was crazy and after seeing him attack me, they made up their mind for good that wanted nothing to do with him. The message he left on the answering machine was violent, angry, and you could hear the loss of control. I was amazed that he could lose it on the phone like that. He sounded like he was in panic, strange very strange.
I personally think that my ex’s type of personality disorder is similar to Mel’s. Mel lost control and then panic sets in, because deep down he knows too many people know about him. I think some of them when discovered (other than the wife or husband) go ballistic because they are like a caged aniamal…no way out. You can hear the “hurt” in their voice, venom is spewing out. My kids were so terrifed after hearing the message on the answering machine that they called me at work and were crying. I did not know what they meant till I heard it. My skin crawled. I kept the tape. I have reviewed it with my lawyer and other people who do not believe me when i say he is disordered. The tape has enlightened many people. Also the fotos I took of him while trying to break down my door and taking stuff out of the house, the rage on his face and the tape go hand in hand. It pays to have evidence these people are convincing otherwise. Mel is done and its because of these tapes and his prior history, it takes time but eventually they are discovered. I am hoping that everyone learns that we need backup evidence in order to make lawyers and family aware of their problems. They are a threat to society, and now with Mel, there is one less.

GettingIt

This girl, Oksana, she is a gold digger. He comes across as someone who had been used and emotionally destroyed. He left his wife, went off the deep end. he may or may not be a P, but she is and I am willing to Bet on it.

GettingIt

Also, she knew what she was doing with these tapes, and she was plenty careful about her responses. He may have plenty wrong with him, but she is the one to be diagnosed. I know I will be in minority, but given her upbringing, cultural background and behavior, nothing is natural about this.

Ox Drover

I don’t dis agree with you Gettingit, I think they are very much in a “2-disordered-people” relationship. She is a gold digger who set out to hook him with a kid (she also has a son by Tim Dalton) and it is the old “casting couch” deal, sleep with the most important person you can get” to further your career.

Of course she couldn’t just have a normal break up, she had to push his buttons, which I imagine wasn’t hard to do, and he was crazy mad and spouted off like lots of self important poorly impulse controlled NARCISSISTIC creeps. He is also high in psychopathic traits I do not doubt, but that woman is waaaaaay “too cool” to not be a very manipulative stalking viper of the worst sort! IN MY OPINION. She is no True victim. She is just tryhing to masquerade as one.

bluejay

Listening to the tapes is disturbing. Mel Gibson sounds totally ripped at the ex-girlfriend. I don’t even want to hear them, finding them too upsetting to listen to.

GettingIt

Oxy, I am glad to learn that others feel the way I do about the Mel thing. I definitely recognized the gaslighting. And – did you notice how on and on he was about sex? not because he’s into it necessarily but more clearly – perhaps, she’s that good> Dr. Leedom’s article about Female Ps speaks to their superb ability to please.
My P was a wh*re, is a wh*re and a gold digger. It finally dawned on me why I am getting the child support and I had to stop and laugh at myself, finally realizing: the woman is paying it!! simple math and – well, he is way good at it. Maybe, like Oksana, but she can play piano too.

SageeGirl

I don’t know the reason for their break-up, but I agree that they both have problems.

Mel DID leave his family- and probably has spent a fortune- (did you notice her telling him he was supporting an army?), and now he is hanging there like those of us who were discarded. It’s a helpless feeling. There were several times that I wanted to scream at my S/P and tell him what I thought.

The fact that he ranted about sex was disgusting, but at the same time, that is what most of us fear losing the most- Especially if the rest of the relationship was no longer good.

Oksana wasn’t cool, she was COLD. I could see her painting her toenails and waving the pool boy out of the house while rolling her eyes. I would have been crying if I were in her shoes. She just didn’t seem to CARE a bit. Not about him or about the fact that he was abusing her.

It’s odd how they both sounded/acted like my S/P: Mel was the S/P when he called to discard me, after having made love two days earlier telling me he loved me, and Oksana was the S/P a few weeks later when I tried to talk to him like a human being and he treated me like I was one of the frozen entrees in the freezer case.

bulletproof

SageeGirl

You say:

he is hanging there like those of us who were discarded. It’s a helpless feeling. There were several times that I wanted to scream at my S/P and tell him what I thought.

yes I agree with you, it was the strangest thing to admit…but I was probably as demented in the throes of being dumped….

She is cold, isn’t she…there is no heartfelt emotions like crying or even remembering what she loved in him in the first place..

GettingIt

Guys, I think we are Graduates now. I think we are ones in minority to pick up on Oksana’s Red flags. Sadly and proudly – congratulations to us all who can See what the rest of (media / society) did not. Needing a shower though – after all the dirt came out.
Hate to admit it, but I was pretty much Mel (minus the threats) when I was pushed to my utmost limits (same story, different actors involved). Used, abused, discarded – it was me huffing and puffing while he was busy choosing WHICH one of his girlfriends to go to (ended up with both, can’t pass up a good deal when he sees one). Anyway, ranting aside, I am proud of us: we know a P when we Hear one 😉

bulletproof

blueskies

you didn’t “waffle” for too long….thanks for such interesting observations and insight..feel free to say anything you want!

Ox Drover

Getting it,

I RAN my mouth when I should have kept [email protected] But when you are “gaslighted” and “crazy” you do those things in the throws of your pain, but you know, it does NOT excuse it, and Mel did dump his wife for this Bimbo and she is a COLD one that is for sure. Sub Zero!

She manipulated him, he fell for it and now he is madder’n a wet hen cause she has the ultimate HOOK a kid. She obviously held out that she cared about him, made his middleaged arse feel young, and hot. Now he realizes she is a FAKE. He may not be a P but he is very narcissistic, also his father was one of those people who believe the Holocoust never happened. Mel has frequently made anti-Jewish and anti-black comments so that’s nothing new, but he is making them while MADD’ER’N’HELL now and that’s not a good time t6o be barking off. When we get mad or upset we should weld our mouths shut! Tape them shut, sew them shut….KEEP THEM SHUT!

learning

Interesting perspectives…probably a little bit of truth in all of them…

Unfortunately I dont know enough details about when the tapings occurred. I was under the impression she decided to tape their conversations AFTER the physical violence when her teeth were cracked and the Dentist gave the statement that he felt she was struck once in the side of head and once to the mouth…

but then there is speculation about it being self-inflicted… so it just leaves so many possibilities up in the air.

I know if I had gone through that kind of physical abuse (and who knows what other verbal leading up to it)…and decided to get my shit together and nail “him” I would probably sound like she does in the tapes, just responding, protecting herself, saying he is sick, what kind of man hits a woman, and no I dont dress like a slut…etc… basically just responding calmly and cooly because my goal would be to show the judge how he acts/treats/lashes out.

I can potentially see Mel getting very jealous and having emotional problems and everything building up and him totally losing it in general…as it appears he did.

I can also potentially see the other perspectives about Oksana…but the bottom line is if he punched her teeth out, and speaks to her that way — what does that say about HIM?? She admits intentionally taping him as a means to defend and protect herself and her child. She simply cant make him hit her as well as speak to her that way. He was CRAZY guys– saying you will sex me first… you wont dress this way or that way… you deserved the beating…. WAY BIGGER RED FLAGS FOR ME AGAINST MEL.

I guess time will tell…

purewaters3

Mel Gibson’s tirade is mild compared to what my ex sociopath said/did.

For a few moments of listening to Mel, it was like having a flashback to my ex, then as Mel continued, he sounded more mentally derranged and out of control than what my socio did.

My ex had a handle on instilling fear and anger, without losing that control. Which made him much worse, to me.

learning

He even says ” I will put you in the F’ing Rose Garden”…

Just some INTENSE VERBAL ABUSE going on and if he really did beat her as he claims “She deserved” – I feel the tapings were the smartest thing she could do.

Some women cowar and continue to live in fear of these types of controlling men. Many a married couple fall apart because of affairs or distrust etc… but they dont reach the level of verbal and physical abuse that Mel displayed.

For me it was his choice of words…. many many sexual demands… horrible accusations about her body parts… such verbal abuse…death threats…out of control breathing…because he was losing control of HER and the situation.

IF he struck her, I believe her maternal instinct may have kicked in and gave her the strength to be calm and tape the monster within Mel.

If he didnt physically abuse her – then I would be suspicious of her motives.

Im just not sold the she isnt a major victim of Mel here. Ok so she married him for money or fame… doesnt most of Hollywood? But they dont end up like this… or deserving of the physical /emotional violence

purewaters3

Thank you, Learning. I agree with you. I believe in a strict policy of non-violence across the board, no finger pointing, and especially, no rationalizing abuse – for anyone – even towards hitler himself.

Abuse is evil, and I will not justify it, even towards a “gold-digger”.

There is no way to know exactly what Oksana is, but I do know that Mel was completely in the wrong to speak to her like that in those tapes. If Mel Gibson has proof of her abuse, he should bring it to the court…

Otherwise, I don’t buy all this, oksana covert sociopath coldness brought Mel to beat her, junk. No body can make anyone else do or say anything abusive. Period.

teacher123

Learning,
You make valid points also. It is hard to imagine what kind of person he would be if she were totally innocent and not deserving of any of this. I guess even if she did pull all of his strings which I think she did- he is still way out of line to react that way. You have to be in control somewhat, or you will find yourself in jail like Mel might. What makes it all so hard to decipher in these cases is that they both appear to be crazy, so people are hard pressed to take sides. That is what the real victims are up against I suppose.

learning

purewaters —

You are right, there is no way to know what really occurred behind closed doors.. we can all agree to that!

And there were times in my past S relationship that he absolutely brought out THE WORST in me – if I didnt have my gf to calm me down from my reaction to his dishonesty and findings of stealing money and being a total liar and cheat — there was a day when I almost lost all control and nearly rammed my car into his (empty parked in a lot)…she talked me out of it on the way — but my goodness — I was filled with hurt anger rage — I was immature and unable to see my behavior was off the wall. While he didnt “make me” that way – that day – the things I found out – the pain i felt – the way I wanted to get him back – was intense and SO OUT OF CHARACTER FOR ME.

So, I do see the perspective of the potential that he found out she lied, or trapped him or cheated etc… and because of her unhealthy ways he went off the deep end..etc…. But there is no justifying any kind of abuse especially physical. Im just not sure what went on here…but Mel was totally out of line and lost complete control of himself. Whether she is a victim or half-responsible for the demise of their marriage – nobody deserves what happened to her. File for divorce from her. File for custody. Get out. What he did/she may have done was wrong. But Mel crossed the mother of all lines in my opinion.

We just dont know what in the world happened between them. I hope the baby will be ok. He still gets weekly custody with the baby….

Hopeforjoy

Listening to this tape, I tend to believe that Mel is an abusive narcissist. I have to agree with learning, Oksana didn’t deserve all the abusive words he was dishing out. Whatever she is, nobody deserves the personally degrading remarks he made.

Totally get angry when women say Oksana was a gold digger and possibly a spath. When I have had enough abuse, I am finally able to detach, she sounded detached and distant. She could have had enough and finally decided to tape the conversation. It can’t be the first time Mel was angry and abusive. Put yourself in her shoes, you would do the same thing.

If Oksana got involved with Mel for his money and contacts, she got way more than she bargained for.

My spath has accused me of being only interested in the money, and I’m like WTF? Did I not say that if you took a buy out and we needed to downsize, we would do it!!! He just recently offered to buy me a new Mustang car because I always liked them. I said no because I don’t want to owe him at all, my car is paid for, why do we want to dish out that kind of money? Freaking blood money.

I’m too familiar with this kind of crap being used against you. We don’t know anything about Oksana but we do know that Mel Gibson is hateful and abusive, that’s enough for me.

Hey, I’m also getting a tape recorder so I can have proof of the b.s. he feeds me. It’s all very controlled b.s. and no ranting here, no emotions whatsoever. I can’t believe the things he has offered me or threatened me with just to get me to stay. Nothing is sacred to these freaks!!!!

learning

Hopeforjoy –

A tape recorder is always a good idea. And also if you have detached are you able to just end all conversations? Not allow him to “offer” or “lure” or “threaten” you so you dont have to be subjected to anything about him.

Getting away, staying away. Going no contact is the only way to completely detach. At least for me it was.

Hopeforjoy

Learning,

No contact, always good advice, I am praying for the day! The tape is for court. His conversations leave my mouth agape and still get sucked in to his nonsense. Soon, I won’t have to put up with it, it just gets more bizzare by the day. Can’t wait for NO CONTACT! I’m still getting over the fact that he was able to lie for 17 years. Way too enmeshed in an unhealthy way.

I still feel emotionally immature, keeping boundaries a priority.

I’m getting a little personal and I’m trying to not overshare. Mel just pithed me off!!!

learning

Hopeforjoy,

You are on your way!!! You are on the right track! Keep the focus on that and your healing… its such a process… we have to go through all of it and all that comes with the shock/aftershock.

We go through healthy stages and unhealthy phases. We hurt, we learn, we grow.

They dont!

Hang in there, believe in yourself and get out of you/share only what helps you get to a better place — and release the inner turmoil. It helps at times. And other times we only need ourselves to turn to for strength and direction…

Im glad you are getting closer to finding a new sense of peace and joy again. xo

hens

One thing MG said that has stuck with me is he wanted to connect with a womans soul, soul to soul he said, he also said that is why he divorced his wife is because they didnt connect at a soul level. So I have been pondering this – I think a sociopath can not do this and there is nothing they want more. That is why they are attracted to people with soul’s , cause he doesnt have one, that’s what missing in them and they try their best to take our’s. OR maybe this is a case of they met their match…POOF ~!

Ox Drover

Henry, I have NO doubt that they are both Ps, she is a gold digger DELUX version, and he is a narcissisticly entitled male getting old and needing viagra so he dumps the little wifey and gets him a hot honey thinking it will give him some status and revive any limp members of his anatomy and turns out she won’t make the bed or clean the house—now that the bimbo is on the rocks—he goes back to the wifey to support him, I think if there is a victim here it is the WIFE!

You know, any man his age who has 7 kids with the wife, and goes and has another one with a hot-young-thing has got some problems.

As far as I am concerned, I’m done even thinking about it….might as go down to the trailer park on Saturday night and park and watch the fights there-=–its all a bunch of trash acting like TRASH! NOOOOOO CLASS….just money and “fame” for what that’s worth—personally I’d rather be a little old red-neck biddy living in the boonies wearing my feather hat and riding my jack ass.

Maryjane

Sorry, I disagree with some of the stated in this article. Sure the horrible and abusive but the sociopath is the woman. She is cold and calculating and knows exactly what she is doing. Mel is a creative, talented, driven person and is or was an alcholic. And boy is he reacting and it is over the top and out of control and wrong as can be. But, I heard something else on those tapes. That woman is a con, a user and she should not have let those tapes out to the public. And the writer or whoever doesn’t know if what cause his upset is that she fell asleep before having sex with him. This is all specualation and intrusive on our parts.
Mel is out of control.. that woman is a sociopath as clear as they come.

http://www.womenexplode.com new articles and interview with a man.. check it out…

Maryjane

You know how the socio and make the person feel and act insane when they realize how they have been used. That is a part of what I heard on Mel’s tape.. he is beyond himself in pain. He is a passionate artist.

I was in a relationship with a socio .. he was evil, crusel, manipulating and when I had been pushed to my limit, he tape me losing it. But my attorney and his knew what he had done because of all my proof. I am not saying what Mel did or said was correct.. but if someone had heard the tape of me wihtout knowing, they might think I was wacko..
It is evil when someone tapes a person like this women did to Gibson.. I see it that way..
Mel has issues.. but that woman .. look at her.. how cold she is..
and she planned it out.. she is the sociopath…

http://www.womenexplode.com

GettingIt

Time and time again we read the stories of women who were “ill prepared” to deal with the abuse and abusers. Now, Oksana is a different story. She was very well prepared and – how did these tapes leak exactly?
While I have no respect for Mel, I cannot think of Oksana as a victim at all. Victims simply do not behave the way she did. It did not sound natural and if she is afraid for her life and that of her child, why is she staying in his house?
Anyway, I respect others’ opinion. The best I can say is, things are not black and white and I am sure there is plenty in the history of that relationships that is not known.

GettingIt

While I refuse to listen to the tapes again, I do believe he said “spiritually connected” and referred to Oksana as having no soul. Many artists are bipolar. In fact, there is a theory out there that basically postulates that being creative is outside of the norm and is really a sign of mental illness, most of which happens to be manic depression. In any event, there is nothing wrong with seeking. Ps do not seek SOUL connectedness. They seek comfort and entitlement. I did not get this at all from Mel. Anxiety, panic, anger, hurt – yes. I don’t think the sexual remarks were meant to be taken literally for the millions who are now listening.

hens

Ox – you ole redneck biddy – if you go to the trailor park for intertainment You need to Get a Life ~! One of my neighbors down the road lives in a trailor trash trailor – a few years back the whole side wall of the living room fell out on the ground and he propped up the roof with a telephone pole. For about six months when you drove by their they all were watching TV, doin this and that, place was a pit but they didnt bother to tidy up for all the traffic passing by.. Finally got too cold and he put up a new wall..now mind ya I have nothing against trailor trash – I live in a trailor..

purewaters3

I think “empathizing” with abusive behavior is what made most of us targets, in the first place. Which is why I don’t do it, anymore – for normal folks and sociopaths, the rules stand the same.

I don’t make excuses for my behavior, hindsight with my sociopath. It’s not healthy. Wrong is wrong.

Which is why I’m so shocked at the animosity towards Oksana. Some of it is just amazing… I think some of it verges on being plain sexist.

hens

Purewaters3 [Wrong is Wrong] I have came to that same opinion. I new it was wrong, and yes I did empathize with his behavior and wanted to believe the lies. But I was lying to myself more than anything else..you just finally get to a point where you have to jump off the train and dont look back because it was a ugly ride.

purewaters3

Hens,

Shame to say, I know exactly how you feel, because I got to that point, too. Except, I was horrified and worn down, and the socio was having a grand old time on the “runaway train”.

super chic

I don’t know if Oksana is or is not a sociopath, but here is an interesting article about her, she is 40 years old, a Russian pianist, studied at the Royal Academy of Music in London, has done a lot of print modeling in the UK, has taught music in the US & UK, and is a singer/songwriter (and maybe a cold calculating spath, who knows??) She played him like a piano!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oksana_Grigorieva

super chic

hens, LOVE the dude in the trailer
with the roof propped up with the telelphone pole!!!
That is a classic!! LMAO !!!!

purewaters3

“played him like a piano” hahaha. good one!

super chic

Hi PW3 !! :0
Yes, every once-in-a-while
my brain works correctly! haha
Oksana does not sound like a stupid woman,
As we all know, a lot of spaths are brilliant people
(like politicians and investment bankers) 😉

super chic

LTL, I hope you see this, because I don’t know where to post it, LF has been a healing place for me also, you used to post a lot and I have copied and pasted many of your comments in my journal… and still read them… and I never asked you or even wondered about your belief system!
You are right, the other thread is not about healing.

Dani S

Mel Gibson has had his problems over the years with alcoholism and shooting off his mouth but it is hard to really know what is going on. He says in one of his rants to Oksana ” I don’t trust you” I think he was on the money with that comment!

What is interesting tho is Mel ex wife Robyn has ran to his defence putting out a statement that, that is not the Mel she knows and he had never been abusive towards her in the 28 years they were together…

Is Robyn manipulated by a Spath?
Or was Mel pushed into a disgusting verbal tirade?
Is Oksana a spath herself searching for high profile, wealthy men to get pregnant to and setting him up to make her look like a victim?
Just a thought!

bulletproof

Ah Dani S I was thinking of you being in Oz and probably knowing more about Mel’s background in general….wow Robyn said that he never abused her in 28 years of being together…that says something…..

BloggerT7165

Slate has an article about this that is a bit different than some others who leaped to his defense (again):

http://www.slate.com/id/2260937/

Wini

BloggerT, I don’t believe anyone is being fooled and LEAPING to his defense. I believe we are NOT buying into that either one is an innocent victim in this train wreck. She’s just as bad or worse an apple than he. He’s a narcissist at the low end of the spectrum. Everyone believes she’s not only a narcissist, but has more powerful tendencies tugging at her to make her tick.

I’m sitting on the fence watching this wreck come to it’s conclusion. I just don’t appreciate seeing women advocates of victims’ rights being deceived and played by this female puppeteer, just because she’s female. It’s a slap in the face for all victims who became survivors or unfortunately died at the hands of their abuser.

Dani S

Well Said Wini!
Bullet, lol yer he is an Ozy icon! I have heard the tapes and I think he was totally off the deep end! I believe he is a narcissist like most of actors that live in there surreal world of la la land! He obviously has his demons but something just doesn’t sit right with all of this to me.
Oksana seemed very controlled in the tapes, she knew she was setting him up!
I am the first person to get down on an abusive man or women and I am not defending Mel’s actions but they have also said that the tapes were tampered with and edited.
I just hope they find some peace in all of this for the child sake! I bet he will be regretting walking out on 28 years of marriage with Robyn and I think Robyn would know him better than anyone and if he was really that bad of a person Robyn would have spoken out when he left her for Oksana and would not leap to his defence now . Other than his drunken antics and Oksana he has always been a popular and much loved and respected friend, family man and work colleague to all from his past and hasn’t got to where he is today being an abusive, narcissistic spath!
Time will tell I guess 🙂
But I also know how cleaver a real spath is and she is sitting in there for me, she is cold!

Wini

Dani S. Let’s focus on her for a minute.

She moves to the USA when?

She breaks up with Tim Dalton when?

She’s writing a song for Josh Groban. When?

Mel is executive director overseeing this album or song. When?

She gets involved with a KNOWN married man with a wife and how many children at home?

Then, immediately, she becomes pregnant with Mel’s baby?

Give me a break with everyone thinking she’s a victim. She’s a predator in a dress.

She cared less about that Mel was a married man. She can’t say she didn’t know he was married, his bio is all over the globe. She cared even less about the wife he was married to when she got involved with him. She cared the slightest about his children that loved their father. This too can be accessed any where around the world.

Then, within how long she’s involved with him did she get pregnant? (sealed the deal). Give me a break. I’m just shaking my head on this one and am furious how she’s playing the system for what she, she, she wants.

Yes, and I agree with you about how in control she is on the tapes. I don’t care who you are. If you are in a heated argument with the man you are in love with, you may want to keep your cool … but, your voice is going to sound strained, cracked, as you squeak the words out … while keeping your head. Not cool, calm and collected without a care in the world.

I’m not stating that Mel isn’t at fault. He absolutely is. He strayed from his marriage knowing he had a wife and all those children at home. His narcissism got the better of him, as with all narcissists … he owns his thoughts, words, actions.

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