By | April 28, 2011 247 Comments

Who the [Bleep] Did I Marry? marathon

The Royal Wedding is all over the media, and the Investigation Discovery network is doing its part by airing a marathon of the series, Who the [Bleep] Did I Marry? The premiere episode of the series, of course, features Donna Andersen, author of

Although the series never comes out and says it, all 12 episodes tell the story of someone who was married to a sociopath. The wives were married to the Green River Killer, the DC Sniper, and various criminals, rapists and con artists. There’s even one husband with a story to tell.

The marathon starts Saturday, April 30 at 5 p.m. and continues through Sunday May 1 at 10:30 a.m. (Eastern Daylight time). Donna Andersen’s episode is called Don Juan Down Under, and airs Saturday at 9 p.m., Sunday at midnight, 4 a.m. and 9 a.m. Be sure to watch the trailer. It features Donna Andersen as the “queen.”


The series is now running on the Foxtel Crime and Investigation Network. For more information, see:

Who the [Bleep] Did I Marry?

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I just saw your show on Foxtel’s Crime and Investigation channel.
I noted as I half watched/half surfed that this week’s featured scumbag was an Aussie, but it wasn’t till you showed the newspaper article that I realised just WHICH particular Aussie you had been unfortunate enough to endure.
Donna, this story was HUGE when it broke…I remember watching the TV broadcast at the time, and as you say, his public humiliation was nationwide, and intense.
Impersonating a War Veteran is about on a par with pedophilia when it comes to how Australians rate lowlifes.
i really hope that you enjoyably appreciate the depth of the crap that you landed this guy in by exposing his lies…some of those old Diggers have been known to have a posse mentality and the threat of physical violence may be something Mr Conman has to live with (chuckle).

I’m sorry that this experience opened your eyes to the sad truth that there exist soulless sociopaths who will exploit innocence…congratulations on turning around your hurt and outrage by helping to spread awareness of these creeps. There ARE monsters out there,unfortunately they just don’t look monstrous.

I hope that you have much happiness going into the future…you deserve it.


Donna – snort chortle….

Ox Drover

DEAR DONNA! Well, I guess he is FAMOUS NOW!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO CHOKE SNORT SNARF!!!!! Oh, I wish I could see the shows!!!! Maybe I’ll win the lotto and get cable! LOL


Oh man, of all the times I wish I still had a TV. I may have to go to someone’s house to watch this.


I saw my lady again yesterday and now she’s bein normal again. I got my ammo back, which surprised me cuz she was adamant about keeping it until she was ready to give it back. She looked beautiful, as usual but exhaused from working too hard. She looked like she was gonna cry when I asked for the ammo back. I told her it’s gonna be OK. She just kept looking like she was gonna cry. I said, please, it’s gonna be OK and she gave it back. I feel really really bad because I think I scared the hell out of her that night. I wonder if that’s why she acted the way she did on Saturday. I’m still trying to step back from her to see if that’s the case. I want to see if I was right to be worried and I want to watch her behavior. She was back to being all sweet yesterday. I don’t know what it is but I’ve never been this attracted to anyone in my ENTIRE life, not even my ex spath/narc. That’s kinda concerning when I think about it.


BTW, I am going to Baton Rouge tomorrow to see about a job so say prayers and wish me luck. I’m bringing God with me. I really wish that I could ask God what his plan is and he would actually answer me. I know he is in charge of all this. He allowed all of this to happen with losing my job in the way that I lost it. It appears that he is taking me out of nursing sooner than I planned to go and I don’t get it. I wish I know what he’s going to do and what the plan is and why he’s doing things this way.

Hope to heal

Dear 2b ~ Trust in God’s plan for you. Sometimes it doesn’t seem to make sense to us, but eventually things work out as they are meant to be. We just have to do our best with each day.

Sending prayers your way and wishing you many blessings. Travel safely. (((hugs)))


There are always three sides to every story – your side, the other person’s side, and what really happened. Who knows why she behaved the way she did? She could have gone into fear and self-protection at the thought that she might lose someone she cared about, after all her other losses. The only way to know for sure is to ask her, if you ever get to that point with her. At the risk of stating an unpopular opinion, I think a lot of people jump to conclusions about other people when they don’t behave the way we want them to – they are jerks, they are losers, etc. I think doing this actually prevents you from having real intimacy, which requires risk (telling them how you feel and asking them how they feel). This is what I avoided with the neighbor boy. For all I know, he really liked me but was as terrified as I was. Now I will never really know because I didn’t strike while the iron was hot.

Really, people are just going about their business being themselves, and we are triggered by their behaviors and how we interpret those behaviors. Ideally, when we stop getting triggered, we won’t take their behaviors personally. The only time I make an exception to the judgment rule is when you are dealing with a deceptive (sociopathic) person. Then you need to be MORE judgmental, as per Oxy’s article. But most “normal” people don’t really fit into categories.

So on that note……..
I had my date the other night with the gorgeous Peruvian Indian guy who doesn’t speak any English. He was calling me “my love” before we even met. He was very smitten with me. We had a bit of a language barrier, speaking only Spanish. We met at an authentic Peruvian restaurant at 8:30. He bought me a delicious bowl of authentic Peruvian soup. I was very tired from a long day and wasn’t really in the mood for a date, but he really wanted to meet before I went to CR, and I kind of did, too. I had a feeling that we wouldn’t be on the same page with him idealizing me so soon. And I was right. He was asking me for a massage, and trying to kiss me before we got to know each other, which was EXTREMELY difficult, given the language barrier. I rejected his advances, and this really hurt his feelings. He eventually went home in the rain on his motorcycle, and I haven’t heard from him, though we still look at each other’s profiles on the site from time to time. It was disappointing to say the least.

I am one who is not quick to call someone a “sociopath” or even a “jerk” just because he acts like a typical man. I was pretty put off by all attempts to get physical on the first date. But strangely, I still like him. I wish we could still just be friends and take things really slow. But my experience with these fast types is that they are all-or-nothing. I’ll take nothing. I’m not going down the same road I went down with my neighbor. I am a very passionate and sexual person, but the getting to know each other part is really a must for me at this point. I can’t afford to keep making mistakes. I think if we could have communicated better, the night would have had a different ending. I don’t know why I am still thinking about him, though. There really is something different about him. Too bad he couldn’t just chill.

Hope to heal

Star ~ I’m sorry to hear that your date was a disappointment. I wouldn’t have called him a sociopath either. Just a horny guy. LOL

Maybe it is misunderstanding on his part due to the language barrier. It could be that sex is the reason he is on the dating site. I dunno.

I do hope that you have a great trip to CR. When is it you’re leaving?


Thanks, H2H. He was definitely gorgeous. If I’d met him traveling in Peru, and we could communicate just a little better, I probably would be very tempted by him. He is 38 with long black hair and chiseled body. He was talking about teaching me tai qwan do (sp). We were going to teach each other english/spanish, and we are both musicians. I was looking forward to doing music together. Sigh. At least he liked to kiss. The neighbor boy wasn’t much into kissing.

LOL I was anticipating all the reactions on this site – that everyone would say he is a sociopath.

I leave on Sunday early in the morning for Costa Rica.


P.S. Why can’t a horny guy just “take care of business” BEFORE he goes out on a date? Remember that scene from Something About Mary? LOL

Hope to heal

Personally, I read people much better when I can see them for myself. What you describe, sounds like a hot-blooded male, period. Perhaps you will see him again when you return from Costa Rica. He does sound attractive 🙂

Hope to heal

LOL Never saw that movie, but you do make a good point. Taking care of business in advance of the date would probably help!


Star, the peruvian guy sounds OK.
if he was a spath, he would have quickly become whatever you want him to be. As it is, he is just a bit immature, I think.

The neighbor boy, who is not into kissing… YUCK. That’s a narcissist or a spath. I’ve had both. the reason he isn’t into kissing is because you are and he doesn’t want it to be about you. He doesn’t want you to ever be satisfied. YUCKY, he sounds really sickening to me, but maybe I’m just remembering my own yucky experiences. yes, it is certainly triggering me, I mean who doesn’t like to kiss? (a whore?) why would someone NOT like kissing?.


Star-I’m sorry that ended up that way for you but I’m glad your realized what was going on. I think the language barrier is a difficult thing. I hope you have fun in CR but be careful as well. Hopefully I’ll get to chat with you before you leave.

I like what you said about my situation. I believe that I truly did scare her. I scared myself and I was thinking about myself and not thinking about her. I put something really huge on her and I think she’s a big worrier. She takes the weight of the world on her shoulders and she doesn’t sleep well. That’s why I think we’d be great for each other because I think we could balance each other out and I may be able to provide the calming and fun that she needs. She’s worn out from work and when I talked to her yesterday she said she wasn’t sleeping. She actually called in from work cuz of exhaustion yesterday. She is working on a project that was supposed to be due yesterday and she couldn’t finish it, so they gave her til this morning. I know she didn’t sleep hardly at all last night either again cuz I kept hearing her up. She said she’d catch up with me this weekend.

I’m going to apologize to her if I get the chance and ask her to forgive me. I was going on and on about wanting to treat her right, and so on, and I put something really big on her and it scared her. I know it did. She rude and disrespectful way she acted Saturday was not any way she’d ever been with me before. She was always sweet. She still tugged on me a bit but she was sweet. She’d act like she wanted to get close and then pull back. I feel terrible for what I did. I am afraid that part of the reason she isn’t sleeping is because of it. We just need to get a chance to really talk. We are not communicating like we did before.

Ox Drover

Dear Nolarn,

How about focusing on just being DRAMA free for a while…and this woman sounds like she is pretty dramatic…and your situation was also high drama right now too…step back, take a breath, and just keep all drama down to a minimum… your venting here, do your screaming here….and for now don’t look for a relationship with anyone. Until YOU get healthy, what do YOU have to offer in a relationship except more drama? You have a lot of chaos in your life now, worry about a job, all this other stuff, so focus on YOU, and getting your problems solved—one at a time, then when you are looking at how things are working well, the chaos and drama is decreased, then look for someone who is HEALTHY THEMSELVES (and frankly this woman doesn’t sound too healthy) to SHARE your healthy self with in a relationship.

I understand you being attracted to someone right now…but I really don’t think NOW is a time to be taking your limited amount of energy and trying to have a HEALTHY relationship when your life is CHAOS and your emotions are roller coaster.

I been there…dun that, and several of us have, and it usually turns into a circle jerk and we end up in worse shape than we were before the relation-shit.


Oxy-thanks for that. You may very well be right. I may possibly have a job coming up. I have a drug screen on Monday and background check in progress for an agency position that staffs in my area. It is a good way to get me back in and I am waiting to hear from the Sheriffs office about the dispatcher job-the one I REALLY want.

I realized that I think my problem is my hormones. My doc did a work up in the fall for PCOS. She is sure that I have it but my labs were normal at the time. My clinical picture and how I look and how my body is behaving says that I have it. I have been eating so healthy and exercising during this time and the scale is telling me that weight is not coming off. I can feel my jeans get looser though and my face looks thinner. My BIG FREAKIN issue is that I think my testosterone levels are elevated. Once I detoxed from sugar and started eating right and all this stress happened, I started growing facial hair worse than I was before and my sex drive is that of an 18 year old male. It’s freaking me out. I think that’s why my brain is having a hard time with laying off of her. I am completely out of the box. I think about sex constantly and she is obviously the object of that desire. It’s making me crazy. I wonder too if that has an effect on how depressed I was feeling when I gave her the ammo. I was totally scared that day-a feeling that I am not familiar with at all. I was reading about increased testesterone in females and it can cause increased depression. As soon as I get some health insurance back I am going to have to go back to the doctor. She wanted me on a different medication anyway, once I went off the sugar and my cycles have gotten really bad. She wasn’t sure if I was even possibly going into premature menopause. I don’t think that would cause increased testosterone though, but PCOS does.

Ox Drover

You may also have a thyroid or some other hormone imbalance going on and so GET some testing done, I would not wait too long…the facial hair may not be a testosterone thing though, or it could be but you know all that so not going to preach to the choir.

I will keep my fingers crossed about the job for you and keep you in my prayers….get ya a job ASAP and then start to focus on the other issues…health #1, both mental and physical….stress does a number on your body, mind and soul, and you’ve been under a lot of stress…so take care of YOU. You can do it, I know you can! (((hugs))))


Into my late 40’s my sex drive went into high gear, too. I forget how old you are, but I think you are younger than me. I have a very high sex drive still and I think about sex quite a bit of the time, too. I think in some ways it’s a distraction, but in another way, it’s kind of nice. I could have easily given in and had sex with that dude the other night. But I just don’t want to put myself at that kind of risk with someone I don’t know. And of course, I would like it to be meaningful. Your situation is complicated because you don’t even know if your neighbor is attracted to women. I hate to see you wasting your energy thinking about her unless you can take the risk and find out, just because I know what it’s like to long and pine for someone you can’t have.

And yeah, Sky, that neighbor guy is really very wierd. Did I tell you that twice the other day he parked his car right next to mine? He never parks in my lot; he has a different lot to park in. And there were many other empty spaces. It’s possible it was just the closest spot to his front door that he could find, and he could care less that my car was there. Or it could have been a power play. Just like the time a few weeks ago when he rode right behind me on his bike while I was getting my mail so I’d see the tail end of him when I got out of the mail area. Very strange. I don’t know what his game is.

I have messaged the Peruvian guy but he has not written back. I think he feels insulted/rejected, or maybe he thinks I am a cold refrigerator. (If only he knew). I think I will write him one more time when I get back from my trip and invite him to lunch. I will be really straight and tell him (in Spanish) that I do like him and I still think about him. If he doesn’t respond then, then I’ll walk away. I don’t like him all THAT much. But I want to make sure I don’t do what I did with the neighbor, which is play games. Or sit around hoping he will call, longing and pining. I’m more ready to just go after what I want these days.


In the movie “Something About Mary” the Ben Stiller character had a date with Mary (played by Cameron Diaz). He was so horny before the date that he decided to masturbate right before. But he couldn’t figure out where the ejaculation went. (Trying to use the most clinical words here). ha ha. He couldn’t find it. So when he shows up at Mary’s door, she looks up and sees a glob of white goopy stuff in his hair. She says, “oh cool, hair gel, can I use some?” and she gets some on her hands and rubs it in her hair. It’s one of the funniest scenes in the movie.


nolarn2b – i went into peri-menopause in my late 30’s….and according to my gyno am still in it (i think he is wrong). when we enter it is often related to family genetics; my mom entered peri in her very early 40’s.

i almost died from heavy bleeding in my mid 40’s – i finally found a gyno who uses bio identical hormones and he saved my life, after the pharm crap they put me on.

fluctuating hormones can make you literally nuts. so, I hope you can get tested very very soon.

and good luck with the jobs!

(and just to let you know i am a crazed rabbit in the spring – this gets stronger every year. …and when i finally realized women were ‘it’ for me, it was like being a teenager!)


There really IS something about spring. I always go boy-crazy in the spring. I have been boy-crazy ever since I can remember. The scene with the Peruvian guy is a repeat of one from my childhood. I was 6 years old when this boy named Scott Feninger used to chase me all around the playground trying to kiss me. I would always run away and think it was disgusting. But secretly, when I got home, I would think about him and even go out and pick flowers for him. ha ha I am a hopeless romantic. Love doesn’t seem to follow any rules. I just heard of a couple who fell in love even thought they didn’t speak each other’s language. Not one word! I have also heard of couples who slept together on the first night and ended up marrying and being happy together. I don’t know what the rules are supposed to be with dating any more. I’ve given up on it.

P.S. I just went to pull up my neighbor’s profile on the dating site. And it was gone!

Ox Drover

Star, I tried to post this to you this morning and I couldn’t get it to post so copied it and here it is.

I think there is a combination of things that are “off” with the guy. Partly cultural maybe…and partly he’s just out to get laid on the first date, and for whatever reason (met on dating site?) he thought he could come across physical and get “lucky.” Obviously you two were not looking for the same thing.

Why are you still thinking about him? It IS FLATTERING to have someone come on to you, to treat you as sexually desirable, and me thinks that you fall for that pretty easily—at least in the past you have (i.e. the neighbor boy etc) and when it turns out they were not really “sincere” just HORNY you get your feelings hurt. I THINK YOU ARE WISING UP ABOUT THAT. Believe me I am as sexual as it gets as well, but I have learned That sex without LOVE, MUTUAL RESPECT, KINDNESS AND CARING, AND KNOWLEDGE OF EACH OTHER is nothing more than mastrabation with someone else’s body. That’s what the psychopaths do…but others also do it. Sex to me to be MEANINGFUL on a level more intimate than a Chinese meal is, and has to be, a bonding ritual between two people who CARE about each other. Maybe that isn’t the way others feel, but it is the way I HAVE COME TO FEEL. Hey, I can take matters “into my own hands” and don’t have to worry about disease or cheating! LOL

You had a dinner…and I think you summed it up pretty well. I’m proud of you! TOWANDA!!!


This guy showed you he was AFTER SEX on the first date….and that is probably ALL he was after….so why are you still excusing him, giving thought to how and when to call him and give him ANOTHER CHANCE….blow this guy off Star….he’s already shown you what he wants. BELIEVE HIM!


I don’t know why I still like him, Oxy. Men have let me down my whole life. I don’t take it personally I guess. They all seem to be from another planet, you know? I think men are in two categories. The ones who try to get laid on the first date. And the ones who want to get laid on the first date, but they know they’ll have a better chance if they restrain themselves. I don’t hold it against a guy for being horny (pardon the pun). Some are just too stupid to know how to romance a woman.

Ox Drover

Star, your PICKER IS BROKE….you keep on picking the kind of guy who is just out for a fark….And then you get your feelings hurt (ah la the neighbor boy) so there is a PATTERN HERE…maybe you should examine the PATTERN IN YOUR OWN EXPECTATIONS….because that seems to be where you are letting yourself down by excusing this kind of behavior at first, then giving them another chance and excusing them and then getting hurt by it….you can’t change how THEY behave, but you can change HOW YOU REACT TO IT. You can RAISE THE BAR OF YOUR EXPECTATIONS….and make them either live up to it or beat it on down the road. Unless you are SATISFIED with how your romantic life has been going lately, and I don’t think you are.

When a man or woman (person) shows you that they are not responsible and caring…just like the guy I dated who wanted to take my plane for a joy ride….had nothing to do with sex or anything else except RESPONSIBILITY….and this turned out to be a BIG RED FLAG because after he married for 4 months, he comes back knocking at my door telling me his tale of woe about how hard marriage is to adjust to…didn’t even tell me the woman’s name….so his IRRESPONSIBILITY flag was just part of his LIFE STYLE.

This guy met you on a dating site, assumed I think that you were desperate to get laid, or would be an easy fark and when you didn’t turn out to be he is off down the road to the next what he perceives as an easy mark.

Sex in today’s age is RISKY health wise, and it seems for YOU at least that it is emotionally risky too as you get attached to who you are sleeping with and if ALL they are wanting (and that is the case with some guys) is sex a few times, then you get hurt.

You can’t change them, but you can change what YOU expect.

I suggest you sort it out. If you are just wanting to get laid, then “any port in a storm” that is attractive….you take the risk, but if you are tired of the hurt feelings, then you have to make the changes in YOURself.


Yeah, you’re probably right, Oxy. But I’m not that judgmental of a person. I have had relationships with guys that I was just friends with for long periods of time – even years – who NEVER laid a hand on me till years later. And it STILL didn’t work out, for other reasons (lack of passion being one). I just try to take each person as they are and try to understand where they are coming from. (no pun intended). Maybe in this dude’s culture, they fall in love right away. I think it is really up to the woman to slow the man down anyway. Most guys are frothing at the bit to jump into bed. If they are not, I start to wonder what is wrong with them.


whoa, star! man that’s a tough paradigm you are operating in!

‘Most guys are frothing at the bit to jump into bed. If they are not, I start to wonder what is wrong with them.

lesson learned


This is such an enlightening thread. I”m scared. I’m turning into Oxy. **sigh**…

I’m already hitting meno. My periods have been missed, then when I get one it’s hell on wheels for a week or more. AWFUL shit to deal with. Funny thing is, I’m not much horny. I think about sex, but after my experience with last spath, I would want it with him or no one at this point and I sure as hell am not gonna go back just to have sex with him and put up with all of the rest of the crap. It wasn’t worth it.

So, this is my conclusion, as nauseating as it probably is, I think I’ll stay away from relationships altogether. something bothers me about “needing” someone in order to complete my life or something missing within and there are sure as shit things missing.

That’s what got me into all of this shit in the first place. it’s SUCH a lonely place to be, but I hope with time, that changes….I want to learn how to enjoy life without the “worries” about who I’m dating next week or oh my god my life is over if I don’t have someone…..the most courageous thing for me to do for myself is to live alone. And it’s a bitch in a lot of ways right now, but there is also something peaceful about it.

I’ve also got enough drama in my life, self created and other created (possible spath son), without running out and grabbing more and bringing it home or using it to distract me from the here and now and what the hell needs fixing within me, which is A LOT!

Also, the Hitachi (vibrator) and the hand is just as effective as the spath was (SURPRISE!), and just as satisfying, but without al the asshole comments and falling off a cliff the next day emotionally, nice HUH? That means I can get enough practice in that if Mr. Right ever comes along, WOAH!! And if he doesn’t, it’s all good! I’m good at “sex” and can please myself better than spath ever did, physically and emotionally so what’s the big deal? 🙂

I understand how all of you ladies feel, so please don’t see this as LL being holier than thou, or that I’m passing judgment on any of you (Star, you already know this), but I guess what I’m trying to say is, if you’re NOT happy in your life, you’re NOT happy within, there is an emptiness to fill, a past childhood filled with pain in wanting to be loved, a job lost, a home on the brink of loss (2 cop), a snake is gonna look a whole lot better than working through the crisis based on your own wonderful strengths (sorry star, guess I shouldn’t use snakes as the comparison).

Being ALONE is the perfect time to examine what the hell is wrong and to make it right within.

Here’s my goal: that I can be perfectly satisifed WITH ME first before I EVER allow another human being into my life with a penis, to share my toothbrush holder, denture cup, kids, wiener, chee wow wow, bed with.

I want that sooooo much more than a man. If a man is ever to come into my life in the future, I want to make sure HE”S not getting ugly baggage out of me too, or any needy leftovers from my past.

Granted, that may never happen. But I want to get to the point where it doesn’t MATTER if it doesn’t.

I can sit here and sell you all kinds of colorful bullshit about why a man would be a good deal in my life, even a healthy one. believe me, i’ve thought about it, but when I REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, I digress. I’m ambivalent.

I want most and SO VERY MUCH to be happy with ME.

And I’m not, therefore I won’t attract happy and happy won’t attract me.

It’s a set up for another spath or something equally as destructive, because toxic is toxic and I don’t have the energy to whittle through man after man to find out.

When I'[m healthier, I’ll know. I just believe that.

Love you all.



Oxy-I had the thyroid tested and it was normal. She tested all hormones and everything was normal. She is the BEST doc I have ever had, so she’ll figure it out. The sex thing is ridiculous. I can’t stop thinking about it.

Star and onestep-this sex drive thing is making me crazed plus I still don’t know for sure if I am officially bi or if I am leaning to women only. I just don’t know. I was in love with my man spath and extremely sexually attracted to him. He was my first orgasm, but this woman is the MOST unbelievably sexual attraction that I have EVER had in my entire life. I am having physical reactions when I think about her. I swear I am turning into an 18 yr old boy. I don’t know what I really am but right now I am wanting to be with women. If it’s not her, then I will wait like Oxy said. I should wait til I’m done with police academy-like I initially planned to do. I do have the battery powered friend which is working OK for right now. I just tend be somewhat of a giver, so I miss not having an actual person to appreciate my efforts.
BTW-I was a little bit bad this evening and had a tiny little bit of Mexican hot chocolate ice cream-dark sweet chocolate infused with cinnamon and cayenne pepper. It reminds me of sex with a woman-exotic. It’s incredible!

Ox Drover

Dear LL, sorry you are “turning into Oxy” LOL ROTFLMAO but you know I have come to the same conclusion, and I think Hens has too, and EB and several of us that have marched on down the road a ways…we are getting HAPPY WITH OURSELVES….and then we can SHARE THAT HAPPINESS with another happy person IF THEY COME ALONG, and if they don’t, that’s okay too.

Trying to depend on someone else or a relationship to MAKE US HAPPY is NOT gonna fly…we have to be HAPPY FIRST.

Even with my late husband I realize NOW that I depended too much on him for my happiness, my relationship with him and NOT enough on ME. I also lived in this fantasy world where when Patrick came home from prison my “family would be perfect” and all would be well with the world….yea, right! Nah, not gonna happen. FANTASY. The P son had made my life miserable the last 3-4 years he lived in my home what made me think he would be a savior when he came home after 20 years in prison? FANTASY was what made me think that. DELUSIONAL thinking. Magical thinking. STUPID thinking!

So, now I am working on being happy, peaceful, content, satisfied with ME and with my life…with learning about me, learning about how I want to live my life, bringing myself pleasure in 100 different ways, taking satisfaction in watching baby ducks hatch, putting plants in the ground, cooking salt free meals, seeing my blood sugar normal, my blood pressure normal, and sleeping well at night, waking up without drama in my life every morning and being HAPPY TO GET UP.

Having people around me who like me just like I am, who laugh at and with me and can hold an intelligent conversation about any number of things.

Life is GOOD.

lesson learned


Well, sorry but it is a bit of an oxymoron right now considering.

I just loved your story of your tour of your property and the ducks. It seemed so peaceful to me.

The smaller things in life….this morning, there was a woodpecker out on my deck, but he was hanging out on the tree out back last spring……about thirty feet from the deck, so he’s gotten closer….

I just watched him, actually, my 20 year old son and I. He was JOYOUS about it and had brought it to my attention in the first place…it took me briefly out of my ruminating……

Just for minute.

I keep thinking about the little things now. Since I’m down to nothing. Maybe it was God that i wasn’t meant to go back to school this term, or even this school…..the teachers are striking and my friends are experiencing A LOT of drama and chaos with regards to their internships and classes………that would have thrown me over the edge…..

I don’t understand this right now. It’s hard. But I’m learning to trust God for the very basics right now. It’s humiliating to be on assistance and to be and feel so incapacitated…..

But there is a reason for that. For all of this.

I’m learning to accept where I’m at, that I don’t know who I am yet. That i don’t want another relationship in my life, to fuck someone else up or to fuck me up, no matter what that means.

Acceptance, I guess.

doesn’t mean there isn’t a hell of a lot of pain with it though.

But I know what i need to do.

I just hope I can continue to have the courage to do it without running back to spath for relief.



LL- ‘I just hope I can continue to have the courage to do it without running back to spath for relief.’

of course you will. and we will lend you some of ours when yours is feeling a little threadbare.


Well, I did meet a guy once who was completely asexual. He was 48 and had never had sex. He was completely happy and hadn’t the slightest desire for sex. He is one of the few men I felt completely safe around. But other than that, and men who are so dysfunctional or on so many meds that they have lost their sex drive, most men seem to be very interested in sex. I don’t consider it a problem. It’s just not something I want to necessarily do with someone on a first date. Having said that, I had a one night stand when I was 33 that turned into a long and serious relationship. I broke up with him eventually, but I learned a lot from that relationship. I don’t consider sex, or the desire for it, as a problem. The problem is that I get emotionally attached when I am sexual with a man. No es bueno. That’s why I can’t do it. Not because I think the guy is bad for wanting it.

I don’t think that a guy who wants to have sex with a woman right away is a spath or even a bad person. I think he’s just a guy. In many other cultures, people have a very open and matter-of-fact attitude about sex. They just don’t make a big deal about it.

I personally prefer to be with a guy who has a very healthy sex drive and is very passionate. I have been with guys who weren’t passionate, and it just didn’t work out for me.


LL – Ok I am prolly gonna offend you but you have mentioned that you love a clean house, that you can be obsessed with it? Well there is good money to be made cleaning houses. Put an ad in the paper or some flyer’s here and there, get a few client and word of mouth.. Start out with one a week then two, I have friends that get 100 bucks for cleaning a house..Nothing to be ashamed of.. I am a jack of all trades master of none, I make a living and support myself, I have aquired some good clients and feel somewhat secure as long as my health holds out I will keep on keepin on, there is no retirement in my future, no time or money for school, and at my age and with this economy I am makin it ……


narcissists seem to be very interested in sex. especially on the first date. then their performance just drops off. they have plenty of excuses. especially those who are our age. they feel the need to take viagra. But truth is they have intimacy problems which messes with their erections. much of it is the madonna/whore syndrome.

Ox Drover


Being interested in sex, and being interested in sex on a FIRST DATE are NOT the same NORMAL, RATIONAL, LOGICAL, HEALTHY attitudes.

The fact that you had sex with someone on the first date in the past and it evolved into a long term relationship has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS GUY APPARENTLY EXPECTING SEX ON YOUR FIRST MEETING WITH HIM.

Under normal circumstances, Star, people develop SOME KIND OF A “RELATIONSHIP” prior to crawling into the sack….though, yes, I agree, many if not most men are perfectly capable of having sex with someone they don’t even know.

Why do you think there are hookers? There is a product to sell—sex without any strings, sex on demand without any relationship. There are men who WANT this (and women who want it)

You already know that YOU EMOTIONALLY BOND when you have sex with someone, which, my dear is NORMAL HEALTHY BEHAVIOR….what is NOT “healthy” behavior on your part, I think, is that you (knowing this about yourself) keep repeatedly setting yourself up by having sex with guys who are SO OBVIOUSLY JUST AFTER CASUAL SEX, not relationships.

Sure, darling, I LOVE SEX—-but I know that I bond to the man I am sleeping with as well….I also know that there is a very decided health risk (even with condoms) in having sex with and exchanging body fluids with, and it is almost impossible to have a body-fluid free or germ free sex act even with condoms—and I am NOT WILLING TO RISK MY PHYSICAL HEALTH, or my emotional health having sex with someone unless there is a RELATIONSHIP FIRST—and I am not talking about 1-2-3 dates either, but GETTING TO KNOW SOMEONE, coming to respect them and see that they respect me, like me, enjoy my company.

I may, because of this, NEVER AGAIN HAVE SEX WITH A PARTNER and if that is the case, my LIFE IS NOT ****NOT**** RUINED, I am still content and I am still a sexual being.

Star I’m not trying to hurt your feelings in any way here or condemn your search for a partner…but when you fish in the sewer you are going to find turds, and guys who want/expect sex on the first (and probably last date)…. guys who are trolling the dating sites for SEX with multiple women….and then when they show you (like this guy did) that was all he was after, you explain that you will give him another chance because YOU “STILL LIKE HIM.” WHAT’S TO LIKE? He has male parts?

But they are not attached to a caring, kind man that wants to know YOU, not just your female parts to rub up against. Get real girlfriend, you deserve better than this!!!


Hmmmmm, well, interesting perspective. I’m not too quick to label people as narcissists and sociopaths from one meeting, especially when there is a language barrier, which makes it hard to see their communication patterns. Maybe this is how they do things in the jungles of Peru. I always heard that in South America, they wait before jumping into bed. But maybe the hot-blooded variety move very fast. Or maybe I inadvertently gave him the wrong message with my bad Spanish. Or maybe he’s just a jerk. I didn’t make a big deal of it when he was calling me “my love” in emails. If an American guy had done that prior to meeting, I would have canceled the date and run for the hills! But I cut foreigners a little slack because their ways are usually different than ours. They view love, sex, and relationships differently. Anyway, it’s a moot point – my interest is declining, as I’m looking forward to my trip to Costa Rica tomorrow. The fact that he did not contact me again is enough to make me lose interest.


The men in Costa Rica seem very amorous. They will kiss your hand or kiss your cheek on first meeting or flash you a big, inviting smile. I’m sure they’d all be thrilled to to have sex right away. I don’t think this means it’s a country full of narcissists and sociopaths. It’s just the way they are over there. They love women, and especially white women. If you are the type (like me) who gets very attached, you have to be careful and learn to just say no.

Ox Drover

LL, I agree with Hens, see if you can get a job part time cleaning houses…I cleaned houses as part of my support during the time I went to school, and it worked out great….a partner and I would hire another student and we would rip through a BIG house in about 45 minutes to 1 hour…leaving it sparkling clean…we carried our own supplies, own vacuum etc. and had a list of how the owner wanted it done and we got’r done. We bid the house by the job, paid the helper by the hour, and we ended up usually making about $10 per hour each profit in those days when minimum wage was a couple of bucks….we set our own hours and it worked great!

I’m with you though, on school and so on, right now I think you need to focus on getting your own act together, taking care of the problem with Junior (one way or another) etc rather than trying to go to school with all this chaos going on around you.

When you are up to your arse in alligators and someone sets your pants on fire is NOT THE TIME to be trying to go to school AND drain the swamp. YOu have the assistance now to help you HAVE SOME TIME when you do not have to focus on going to school or making a living.

USE it constructively, and be GRATEFUL for it. It is a BLESSING.

I never got any public assistance, though I did apply for it, never quite qualified, I’d have $10 a month too much Income to qualify for food stamps or anything else, so I would have taken it if I could have gotten it while I was going to school, believe me I would have. I did get some grant money to help with tuition and books, scholarships, and I took out loans which I paid back, and I worked cleaning houses, I raised a garden and put up food, I bartered with other single parents for child care and mechanic work on my car, I tutored other students, I worked jobs where I could study some while I worked, shared rides to school when I transferred to another more distant school, I did everything in the world to make money or to save money and I made it through school, even after my horrible divorce that left me on the floor emotionally “sucking my thumb” but oh, **how much easier it would have been*** if I had had some time off, some financial assistance so I didn’t have to worry where my next grocery money would come from or how I would buy my books for a class.

I can’t even imagine now, going through what I have been through the last 7 years now, AND trying to work at the same time, or go to school….the TIME I’ve had to focus on me (much of which I WASTED by getting involved with the P-BF and other things that were NOT things I should have been focusing on….) now that I have finally started focusing on ME, and learning to set boundaries, and to formulate some HONEST APPRAISALS of my own involvement in the problems I’ve had in my life by LACK OF BOUNDARIES, by not doing healthy things for myself, by not distancing myself from these people who I KNEW WERE NOT GOOD PEOPLE….

Those honest appraisals of MY OWN enabling behaviors, my OWN poor choices and my DETERMINATION TO NOT continue to engage in these things has been faciliated because I finally got to the point and had the leisure to address them. It takes TIME of self reflection for us to SEE what our own choices have resulted in. How in the FUTURE, and also in the NOW, that we can make better choices. More healthy choices.

LL I hear some sanity in your posts now that I didn’t hear when you first came here, and I also hear that you are starting to get some insight into how you set yourself up for a lot of the problems you have had to deal with…and like most of us that sanity waxes and wains from time to time…but that’s okay, I hear some upward progress in that “sanity” over all and that is what each of us has to do. Just be SANE for today…just make healthy decisions for NOW….and pretty soon there is a pattern of sanity and healthy living and before we know it, we are calm, happy, content and doing well….at that point, we can ADD in things like school, jobs, and other things that are good for us because we will have the sanity and ENERGY to cope with them.

Ox Drover


NOT every man who wants to have sex on the first (or only) date with a pretty woman is an N or a P….but it does not mean that they want a relationship either. You don’t have to label someone a P or an N just because he wants sex on the first date, but it does mean (to me) that anyone who is ONLY interested in sex with me is not a man I want to have casual sex with and then never see him again because ALL he wanted was sex he didn’t have to pay for. If a man wants casual sex, it ain’t gonna be from ME, because I do NOT want casual sex.

Also, I notice that you are LUMPING the “men of CR” or other countries into categories —–“are very amorous.” Men (and women) in any country may have some cultural similarities, but you know, people are people and having a prejudice about a person just because he is from a certain country, even if that “prejudice” is positive, is not a good thing I think. Pre-judging a person by where they are from can lead to some mistakes in how we view that person or even that culture.

Enjoy your trip to CR and looking for snakes and reptiles, but don’t think that just because the guys you have met so far down there are push overs means that they are the answer to your problems of intimacy or a healthy and fulfilling relationship. That has got to be a lot more about relationship than about just the sex. What are you going to do and talk about the other 23 and a half hours a day? LOL


Okay, this is all starting to make me feel pretty judged. I did not ask for any advice here about the Peruvian guy. I don’t need any advice. I know where I stand here. I was just sharing my experience. I did not sleep with him, nor did I have any desire to. I only stated that his behaviors, in and of themselves, did not prevent me from still liking him in some ways. Obviously, he was not interested in a friendship or he would have contacted me again (and maybe apologized).

I also never implied that Costa Rican men were the answer to my prayers, nor do I have any intentions on getting my heart broken by any of them when I’m there. I was simply describing the culture and how their attitudes about sex and women are very different than they are here. It is neither good nor bad; it is simply just a description. Personally, being a passionate person myself, I’d rather fight the guys off me than deal with these aloof, ageist American men who are afraid to even ask me on a date. But that’s just my preference.

I know you guys’ hearts are in the right place, but dang I need to stay pretty lighthearted about this dating stuff. I come here to share an interesting experience, and I feel like I get hit over the head with a sledgehammer.

Ox Drover

Sorry, didn’t mean to make you think I was judging you, because I wasn’t in any way…I just poked my nose in obviously where you weren’t interested in me poking it…but since you had spoken about the neighbor boy breaking your heart, and the Peruvian guy, I thought you wanted an opinion…I’ll wait next time until you ask. Sorry. (((hugs)))


Oxy-I totally with what u are saying and that is why u are right about what u told me about not getting into a relationship at this time. It finally made sense when I read your last posts to Star. I CANNOT have casual sex. I never have been able to. I believe that it is such a personal,intimate, special act that should only be reserved for the right person. It made me think back to the ex spath/narc. I know that I had my part in what happened in that relationship. I had to get right with God and confess and get real with myself about being the other woman in that relationship. Being the OW reminds me of casual sex. Knowing what I know about spaths and what went down in the relationship with finding out he had to ME, and the other women before me, the sex that we had that I felt was so special and bonding, was casual. At least it feels casual to me. It meant something for me but it was casual for him.This is what is bugging me about the hormones/increased sex drive. The hormones are blinding me to what I know is true in my heart. That is why I cannot bother with trying to pursue anything with the lady next door. I can’t even get close enough to her to find out if she goes that way or not. She closes herself off from everybody and seems to enjoy being totally alone and not letting anyone in. That alerts may that there may be a tremendous amount of baggage/drama there that I don’t want to be a part of my life-since I have enough stress going on right now. It brought me back to what my nursing mentor told me about being with women. She’s been only with women her whole life and is in a ten year partnership that is stronger than most marriages I know. She said never to mess with straight women. It’s not hard to seduce them but they usually only want a one time amazing experience and then they are done. They also like to receive but they don’t wanna give-usually. She says that u will probably get your heart broken by falling for them. The relationships to me with men and women are not much different-since I’ve had both. Women can be just as disordered as men. I view the relationships the same too but I HAVE to remember that the hormones are complicating the issue. For some reason, the strong sexual attraction that I have for her makes me fear that I would have sex faster with her than I would with a guy. A lot of women who date women jump into bed way too fast-faster than I feel is healthy. Why should I wait for a committed relationship before going to bed with a man but behave differently with a woman. Part of it is my testosterone and the role that I feel about myself if she and I were a couple. She is very feminine and all woman. I am feminine as well but a little tomboyish too. I feel like the guy in the relationship if there were one. I treat her like a lady. I would have to wait to have sex with her because if I didn’t, it may bring back feelings from HIM about being OW and would not be good.


Don’t worry, Oxy (((hugs))). I have no plan to let the Peruvian guy break my heart. I think it’s more the other way around. I think in his mind I was “his love” and I may have hurt his pride by rejecting him. Who knows? I will never know his real motivations. I handled it very well under the circumstances, but I regret that we were not able to communicate.

I don’t consider the neighbor boy as breaking my heart either. I really don’t know what he was thinking or what goes on in his mind. That’s the problem. I was too chickenshit to find out, so I assumed the worst and played games, just like he did. I can only analyze and change my own behaviors. Trying to figure out a man is like trying to play a game of chess blindfolded.


blindfolded? sound’s kinky to me..


ha ha See what I mean about men having their minds in the gutter? (hens’ comment). LOL


sex is a universal lanuage Star – blindfolded ? well that is more of a fetish thing…

Hope to heal

OMG you guys are cracking me up!!! ROFLMAO


DIRTY! KINKY! I love it!

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