By | January 25, 2012 112 Comments

Woman charged with abusing child and streaming it over Skype

Jennifer Mahoney, 32, of Manalapan, New Jersey, was charged with sexually abusing a 5-year-old girl and streaming the encounter via Skype to a man in Texas. Read:

Federal complaint against Texas man sparked probe of N.J. babysitter accused of sexually abusing 5-year-old girl on

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Ox Drover

You know this kind of thing is making the news more and more…. woman/man named __________ fill in the blank, streams videos of themselves molesting a child to someone they met over the internet and have never met in person.

WTF? Where are these creeps coming out of the wood work from and finding people who are stupid enough and twisted enough to do such things?

Is the perversion being “caused” by the availablity of the internet or is the internet just making this become apparent and these perversions are coming out to light as a result?

BloggerT’s blog female offenders shows that there are as many or more female offenders in sexual molestations so maybe this is just showing what is already there. Beats me!


Just like that story awhile ago, both parents molesting their year old baby, during a “supervised visit” and filming it on their cell phone.

At this point, what can you even say.

Ox Drover

I remember years ago Susan Smith pushing her two babies in the car into a lake and killing them to get rid of them so her BF that didn’t want kids would want her….and not long ago a woman smothered her boys and pushed them (dead) into a creek because her mother was nagging her about being a bad mom. What can be worse than smothering your kids to get even with your mom?

But stories like these are becoming more common place. Sexually molesting infants, posting it on face book or the internet Dozens of men coming to “meet” a 13 or 14 year old they have groomed on the net, only, thankfully, to find out it is a 40 year old cop! Or a TV reporter who is going to film your arrival!

It seems to me that Sodom had nothing on our culture…at least the residents of Sodom were only after adults not children!

It makes me really SAD that what is happening to our children, and how people will do such horrific things in the name of “entertaining” themselves. And also ANGRY.


I don’t know how to transfer links over to this but in the Denver Colorado paper yesterday – a story about yet ANOTHER 3 year old’s skeleton found under a mother’s trailer. ANOTHER one of those DCF was begged NOT to let Mom have this child. ANOTHER one of those where people had been informing DCF for months that child had not been seen.


Ox Drover

Yea, Milo, I read that one too…..the aunt had custody but the mom came and got the kid for a “visit” and no one saw the kid again even though the family tried to get someone to do something but because the mom had no address to serve a warrant to, they let it slide. I think the cops and the CPS workers who blew that one need to go to jail as accessories.

New Beginning

It is all downright sickening……and will probably continue to become more prevalent with all the children produced by psychopaths. Absolutely makes my skin crawl. And these are just the stories we hear about so it’s probably only the tip of a massive iceberg.

I didn’t hear about the parents molesting their infant and recording it on their phone. Horrible, absolutely horrible.


This story slimed me. I doubt I can wash it off.
Perhaps an apt punishment would be to have her watch the video over and over while being punched and beaten. It might serve as an aversion therapy so in the future, she associates child abuse with severe pain.

Am I being too harsh?


Sky ~ No, you are absolutely not being too harsh. IMO

donna dixon

SICK, SICK WORLD!!! I firmly believe we start with stiffer penalties for the abusers. NO GET OUT OF JAIL TIME! If you do the crime on a CHILD there is absolutely no GETTING OUT OF JAIL ~ in my opinion it should be automatic EXTERMINATION but then again I know there are people who do not believe in the death penalty.

However, I am still SHAKING MY HEAD IN DISBELIEF that Casey Anthony is walking FREE. Obviously it’s not just the criminals in some cases….it’s us common folk on the JURY!



I didn’t open the link to read this article but I’m mad and disgusted enough by the title to comment.
It seems like society is turning more and more to the extremely despicable and sick, but I think its always been. Our population is getting much larger which increases the incidents, but the form of abuse changes with technology. It’s still all abuse. I have heard from dozens of people my age (41) that they were abused as children. I’m sure it goes back to the beginning of man, but it is so much more in our face now because of the media and Internet.
This is so sickening that I just keep telling myself what goes around comes around and these predators will get what’s coming to them in the end. Otherwise, I’d probably go insane. There HAS to be ultimate justice.


I was just thinking the same thing about Casey Anthony’s jury! I believe the jury selection purposefully picked people who displayed either extreme stupidity or sociopathy. I even read an article recently suggested here on LF written by a specialist on how to keep sociopath’s OFF your cases jury selection.
Scary. My brother used to try criminal cases and switched to tax law because of the disgrace of justice he experienced.

New Beginning

Woundlicker, I agree. We see it now in the media and technology has also given the perpertrator’s a new avenue in which to their victims.

donna dixon

Woundlicker ~ (Love your name, BTW) I can’t tell you how furious I was that people were BLAMING the prosecution for not presenting the case in the manner that would have convicted her!! What a bunch of BUNK!!!

I can certainly see why your brother changed careers. He was probably so frustrated working his butt off and then seeing the obvious go free!

I cannot stand to look or read anything about Casey Anthony. All I can see is Caylee in the trunk with duct tape over her mouth and a flash of her mother dancing in a blue dress with her boobs falling out and a tattoo with Bella Vita!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Does anyone else look at Casey Anthony, BTW, and always notice a huge neon sign over her head that blinks “TRASH”? I have never seen a photo of her that didn’t make my skin crawl. You can’t polish a turd.


woundlicker ~ Yes, I see that neon sign blinking “TRASH”, but the really scary part to me is that I see my daughter, always have since day one.

My daughter’s quest for Bella Vita almost cost my Grandson his life. Casey’s parents contacted an attorney and looked into getting custody of their granddaughter. We contacted an attorney and fought for custody of our grandson. There is no question in my mind that my grandson could have come to the same fate as Caylee.

That will always send chills down my spine.


Reading this article and some of the comments afterward gave me an anxiety attack. I don’t want to be wrapped in a blanket of denial, but I think it’s bad for me to read this stuff. I worry about my daughter endlessly and paranoid about something like this happening to her.

Her dad had her unsupervised in his care twice and I discovered he was using drugs and had her God only knows where with God only knows who. He told me one of his friends said she didn’t look like she was his baby during one of these times. With him high on drugs and around some low life people, I always wonder if anything happened to her.

I let a former friend watch her a couple of times but I felt so uncomfortable for an unexplained reason. I have no proof of anything, but my daughter started to touch her private area and say “tickle tickle” and I’ve read that sometimes this is how a child’s boundaries are initially violated. I connect the start of this with that former “friend” watching her.

Now I only have one person, outside of daycare I feel totally comfortable with, watch her on occasion and she is a professional nanny that I have thoroughly screened and had a good “gut check” with. Even with a clean background check and a good gut feeling, I’m still so afraid. The paranoia over someone hurting her overwhelms me.


don’t be paranoid, I think it is counter productive. Instead, get surveillance. use a nanny cam. use tracking devices and gps for kids, hidden in a backpack.

I used to worry about my cats constantly. Then I got them all tracking devices, the type that falcons are fitted with. It cost me a couple grand back in 1992 but it was worth it.

Of course I didn’t realize that my spath had set me up to buy these so that if I ever left him, he could track me… but anyway, it worked great for the cats. When I left him, I just deactivated the devices. In the end it made no difference because he had infiltrated my family with a trojan horse and the trojan horse told him everything I was doing.

Still, for 18 years, it gave me peace of mind that I could always find my cats. The only thing it didn’t help with was the 2 cats that he purposely killed and blamed on coyotes and cars.

New Beginning

Marie, I am so sorry you have to experience that. I am fortunate that my son is an adult but if he were younger I would feel the same way. Long before I realized who I was married to, I always had to avoid reading/viewing articles and news stories that had to do with children being mistreated. I’ve been aptly nicknamed the “safety parent of the world” by a few who know me well.

Are there any legal steps that can be taken if your daughter’s father is taking drugs when she is with him?

My thoughts and prayers are with both you and your daughter.




Most new parents feel this way. You have to be alert, expecially with your x, and you are doing that. You have to follow the “gut” feeling and you are doing that. You have to “listen” to your child and you are doing that. You are doing your best.

Yes, the world can be a scary place, but there is a fine line between protecting and over-protecting. You can’t put your child in a bubble. I know, I tried. LOL

Have faith and sometimes it is best not to read or listen to these horror stories. That I am saying to myself as much as you.

Love – MiLo


I agree, arm yourself with knowledge, follow your gut instinct, talk to your child about everything, and supervise visits with your child and anyone else outside your trusted circle, but as for these horror stories- I’m with everyone else. I couldn’t even read this one, it makes me sick and depressed.
I was just talking to my neighbor who has an 11 year old daughter and she didn’t even realize one of our neighbors, who lives next door to the elementary school is a convicted child molester with a long criminal history. She has even let her daughter go through this sex offender’s elaborate Halloween maze in his front yard every year unsupervised. This creep who still lives with his parents and he is in his 40’s, has a large 2 story playhouse at the end of his driveway- no children live there! It scares me that so many kids walk around unmonitored in this neighborhood.
I looked up sex offenders when I first found out the ex spath was looking at child porn to see if he was ever convicted of anything other than the stuff I already knew about which included peeping Tom and several stalking, dui’s, theft, etc. He admitted he was called a child molested and sexual predator by other women before. He wasn’t on there but I was shocked at how many lived in my immediate area. Since then I check the web at least every few months.
It amazes me how few PARENTS here where I live ver check the sex offender website.


I remember a few times when I visited my dad and he did drugs in front of me with his buddies. One of them even started screaming at me. 🙁 Who knows what else he did around me that I didn’t notice.

Video violence is apparently the cool thing to do now. Do you guys see the videos on the news with girls fighting each other?

I’ve also heard of a video involving three youths from the Ukraine as they murdered a man on video, with sound. I know the video name, but I don’t want anybody to look it up really. Just an example of our culture now.

Not shocked that this has caught with the child predators. I remember a news story from my childhood involving a mother having sex with her infant. Not standard sex, but molesting. That happened before the Internet was this huge. I’m shocked we don’t run across it more, or that the predators haven’t made malicious pop ups depicting the acts on normal, safe sites.

sharing the journey

For those out there with children-always listen to them-let them see your concern-and act-even when in doubt–you will gain a reputation for being a careful mum-kids pick up on this, so do potential molesters and your children know that they will always be believed.

I believe that this is what saved my children from their dad–a thing with incest fantasies regarding our girls and a peodophile.

Kids and technology nowadays is way beyond my understanding. To combat my ignorance-whenever my 14 year old tells me something and I get concerned about it–I just frown and say ‘what was that again’. She then automatically assures me that it is all well by giving me a full explanation. I then reasure her by telling her that I am just doing my job as a mum. This respects her autonomy and judgment whilst leaving the door open for discussion.

This has just came back to me-funny enough-I remember talking to my ex about peodaphiles when the kids were young. He told me that they look for unloved or bullied children or ones that were bullies.

Little did I know.

As for mum’s who put a man first or harm their child. I can’t comprehend it. It’s just not in my make-up. Don’t get me wrong–I am not talking about during the chaos and confusion of the shock and disbelief stage of the spath-I think it is normal to react this way. Especially when they have worked hard by gaslighting you into self doubt as I was.

But years of acting on my doubts and putting my kids first kicked in. He could not break this.

In finishing–my heart goes out to those mum’s who are blindsided like me whose children come to them with their story that they were molested by their father. These men are clever and are masters of deceit.

I am so glad I am a single parent. After hearing about tales of sexual abuse at the hands of their fathers from many women throughout my life–I used to be so glad I didn’t have a dad. He was a psychopath too by all accounts- but one that battered until my mum was hospitalised. She left him when I was five.




I don’t understand how there can be so many people like this walking around. Where do they all come from? It just makes me sick. There seems to be SO much of it. I really don’t have anything constructive to add to this conversation. I just feel disgusted. I don’t understand what kind of moral fiber has to come loose for a person to think it’s okay to humiliate and harm a child like this. Not within my realm of comprehension.


I do try to come to terms with what they must be feeling. It seems to me that they are looking at other human beings as objects. They have less concern about damaging a person than you would about cutting a rose from its bush so you could keep it in a vase at home. The rose provides you pleasure, so why not? Sometimes though we choose to leave the rose where its life might be extended on the bush. Spaths never, ever even consider that. The rose SHOULD die as a sacrifice to their will, after they’ve enjoyed it. Why should the rose last even one day longer if it means that the spath doesn’t get to possess it? For that matter, if the spath thinks about it long enough, he will determine to kill the rose because it didn’t really give him that much pleasure. After all, in a rose to human relationship, he is expected to admire the rose in order to get pleasure from it. That doesn’t sound right… shouldn’t the rose admire him? Isn’t HE the superior species?

So you see, Star, this is the kind of sick logic of narcissism that 2 dimensional entities engage in. It’s ego centric, deluded, all about them, lacking in originality, resentful, unappeasable, afraid of being replaced.

When I try to work out their rationalizations in my mind, I slime MYSELF! But then I think about how normal people can admire a rose and appreciate it. It demonstrate our humility before God because, even though we MIGHT be a superior species to a mere rose bush, we can still humbly admire it and experience gratitude for it. Spaths just can’t.


Skylar, New Beginnings, MiLo, Woundlicker, Near and Littlewhitehorse,

Wow, thank you all for your support, encouragement, shared experience and wise suggestions!

True, paranoia does not help and is counter productive. And, I cannot put her in a safe little bubble. I don’t want to stunt her development over my fears, either. I want her to continue to thrive and continue to be the happy little Angel she is! As safely as possible, of course 😉


In response to your quesiton regarding his drug use while she is with him, this was prior to me getting full custody of her. This was before I had the strength to leave Spathy in the dust. Now, I have a protective order which includes my now 14 month old daughter.

She is still required to see him 2x per month at supervised visitation. That went into effect after her 1st birthday. I still hate the idea of her being exposed to Spathy, but he’s putting on a really good show for the visitation center, bringing her snacks, gifts and even bringing musical instruments to play music for her during the visits. This will only go on until he lands himself back on drugs and hopefully back in prison where he belongs. Or until I can leave the island, which will hopefully be within the next few years.

New Beginning

Marie, I am so glad to hear you have full custody of your daughter! Children are so precious. The best years of my life were the years I was raising my son. Enjoy your precious little angel. 🙂

New Beginning

Sky, that is an excellent example. My ex could never appreciate the beauty in nature…..really couldn’t be bothered with any of it. Nature provides me with a feeling of connectedness with the universe.

To date, I’ve never met a gardener I didn’t like, and conversely I have never seen plants thrive when left in the care of a P. Just doesn’t happen. There is no harmony emitted in the energy/vibrational field of a P. They suck things in like a black hole and never give anything back.


I’m glad you liked the example, but really I was only making an analogy to treating people like you might treat a plant. I think it’s perfectly ok to make plants conform to your wishes since there is a symbiotic relationship with a plant. But people’s individual personhood should be respected.

New Beginning

Skylar, I wholly agree with both your analogy and your further explanation.

I didn’t intend to deflect anything from what the purpose of your statement was. It just reminded me that there isn’t a P I know (and there are many in my ex’s family) who can maintain a healthy plant. My intent was more adjunctive and in the realization that nothing positive in nature thrives around a P. Neither people, plants nor animals.


true. So true. They kill everything.



Thank you! I try to remember how fleeting her childhood is, especially when I’m tired/stressed. So far, becoming a mom has been the most exciting thing that has ever happened to me in life. The only thing I can imagine even coming close to this experience is when if I get to have grandchildren one day!

Ox Drover

Marie, I think he will grow tired of playing music for a toddler for an hour twice a month if it doesnt give him ACCESS TO YOU, so just make sure that he never gets to see or talk to you while visits are going on. HE IS TRYING TO USE IT TO JERK YOUR CHAIN OR GET CONTACT, so if he doesn’t then he will not get a “reward” and seeing the baby isn’t a reward for them it is only to jerk your chain.

New Beginning


I clearly recall the stressful days. My favorite parenting quote is “the days are long, but the years are short”. Before you know it, it’s time to start letting go so they can fly.

As things settle down in regards to your ex, you’ll find more joy in each day. It is difficult to raise a child when you’re under so much stress from things that are out of your control. Hang in there! 🙂



I need help, hope someone is here to give advice. I will shorten story because it is long and complicated.

Grand, age 11, 5th grade. Had a terrible day in school, partially his fault. He is feeling very upset and depressed. He has a basketball game after dinner and does not want to go, too upset. I thought it would do him good to get with his team and get his mind off school problems. I pressured him into going.

This is his first year playing, he is not very good, but out of the 11 kids on the team, only 2 can play. The coach always plays all the kids pretty equally during regular games. This game is part of a tournament. Grand was the ONLY kid out of 11 that did not get to play tonight. I was sitting there and my heart was breaking knowing what this is doing to him. He said coach told him, during regular games the rules MAKE him play all the kids, during tournament he is allowed to do whatever he wants and he told Grand he was not good enough to play. OMG

Grand has spent his life being REJECTED, first by his mother and then other kids for his lack of social skills. Rejection is the last thing this kid needs.

Here is my problem, the tournament still goes on tomorrow with anywhere from one to four games depending or not if the team wins. I think it is important that he finishes something he started and he is learning and getting better and enjoys it. He does not want to go. I have told him it is important to be part of the team and support them. I also told him I thought the coach was wrong and I was sorry.

Should I really encourage him to go and sit on the bench for possibly four games being hurt and rejected?

I might add that this team has only won 1 game, Grand is getting better and again ONLY 2 kids can play, the rest are basically the same as Grand.

I really didn’t think this coach was like that and I am so disappointed (and mad) This is not an actual school basketball team, although they play at the school and the coaches are volunteers.

Any suggestions????

PS – when I say only 2 kids can play I mean only 2 out of 11 even half way know how to play – they are the only ones who have even made a basket all year.


Milo – This breaks my heart and piss’es me off. This is so redneck typical in the sport’s arena, it’s all about winning..the coach is an assho and winning makes ‘him’ look good…
I have a 11 year old grandson that is not great at basketball but he does love it and he does want to play..if I for one minute felt my son and dil were forcing him to do something he did not want to I would interfere in a heart beat.
Your grandson knows if he want’s to play or not, ask him and respect his answer. He is 11, not 3..


Oh thanks Hens – I know you have a grandson the same age. I have told Grand the decision was his and I would understand either way.

Hubby wanted to talk to the coach, but he was all choked up and could not talk. We have never told coach that Grand is ADHD and high functioning Autism. Grand just wants to fit in and not be different. Coach told Grand “You didn’t learn the plays” Grand gets straight A’s, he has learned the plays, he just gets nervous. Oh, and I have never seen any “plays” from this entire team, but that is beside the point.

I suggested he go to the first game and see what happens then we could leave. I will respect his answer, absolutely, I just don’t know how to “parent” this one.


Milo – Grand is probably smarter than any coach I ever met and will succeed in life without being humiliated for not being the best at dribbling a ball down the court…
I am like your Hubby I can never formulate the words when I want to tell somebody what I think…but tell him practice makes perfect…


Hens ~ I had no idea that there were any rules telling the coaches they HAD to play all the kids ~ so here I was thinking so highly of this guy because I thought he was “different” from your average jerk coach – WRONG

Hubby can usually do pretty well, but you hurt his little buddy and he falls totally apart. I think by tomorrow he will have found his voice, even if Grand decides not to go.

Why do people have to be like this with kids???? I just don’t get it.

Thanks for your help Hens, I will let Grand decide and prop him up like I always do. That’s what grandmas are for. I’m going to go cry in my pillow now. Darn cruel world !!!!!


Oh, the real zinger is Grand really, really wanted to play football. He played two years of flag football and was REALLY GOOD. Well, turns out he is too big – yes, too big for football. He has to wait until jr. varsity (7th grade) to play. By then all the kids will have been playing and “know the plays”.


Ox Drover

Dear Milo,

I know what you mean about the way the coaches treat the kids and crush their little spirits. Arsehole!!!!

I’m glad that you are going to let Grand make the decision on this….it is his life and his decision. I think a GOOOD lesson too in learning how to handle Losses and failure of others to “be nice.”

I think it is important to learn that not everyone “plays nice.” It hurts but it is REALITY.


that is so sad.

I think everyone experiences exclusion a bit differently. Some can handle it better than others.

Depending on how badly he wants to play, maybe it’s time for him to own this problem. Can he get someone to teach him and practice with him in his spare time? Any organizations like Big Brothers around? Other teams he can join? Sometimes achieving in one sport can give a kid confidence to cross over into other sports or activities. If this issue has a strong emotional impact and he figures out how to cross that barrier so that he experiences the victory of winning over his own deficiencies, it’s something that can carry over.

I don’t have kids or much experience with asperger’s. It might be different for him. Hopefully, he will find a blessing in this painful episode.


Sorry Milo,

That was cruel from the coach. I think it’s good you let Grand make the choice. I don’t have children myself, but I’ve had my own share of memories as a child dealing with rejection.

I was never much pestered as a kid, but plainly ignored by my peers from the age of 7-14. Looking back now I know it’s partly because some of their games just did not interest me at all. Though my mother was not keen for me to go to the scouts, she was always keen on getting me to summer camp. I hated it. Each year, I promised myself to not go the next year. It wasn’t that I was pestered, but 100 strange kids I had no connection with was just not my thing. Neither were the summer camp rules: earlier in bed than at home, not free to choose what I wanted to do, having to sleep without undies… And yet my mom managed to persuade me each year again, by telling me that my cousin would be going and would otherwise be so alone. If I replied, but her best friend will be going too (a girl I disliked for being conniving), she’d say, “I don’t think that girl is coming along this summer.” So, I went again, but the best friend was there too. Ugh.

I think my mom feared that I needed it as an opportunity to learn to socialise, because of the issues at elementary school. Scouts would have done that too, but I think there she feared it would be too much like school. Summer camps are at least short time.

Thing was, I was perfectly fine doing stuff on my own: drawing, painting, crafting stuff, designing and making my own games. And by the time I was 14-15 I started to have friends at school (almost always at least a year older) and the whole social issues solved themselves. By the time I was 18-19 and if I told someone about the peer-ousting years people were absoluely floored. They couldn’t even imagine it.

The above hasn’t much to do with sports and I have my fair share of sport experiences and was always encouraged to do a sport. But it is a story where maybe adults would think it is good to push a child to conquer their deficiencies, to exercise their social skills. But I didn’t really have a social deficiency. I had friends, I was able to make them when I wanted to. But I was picky about it, and I just loved having time to myself. Children know what they need.


Thanks everyone, your thoughts and help are so appreciated.

We let Grand make the decision and he decided to go this morning. He said if he didn’t go, he was afraid he would be kicked off the team and there are still a few more regular games after the tournament he could play in. So – we’ll see. I take this to mean he is really interested and enjoys the game.

I told him I was so proud of him for the way he supported the team, without playing. Like you said Oxy, a good lesson on how to handle disappointment with grace.

Sky, thanks for your thoughts. He actually had to drop out of Big Brothers to join BB, they were the same night. This had been going so well, he was getting exercise, learning skills and what it is like to be part of a team. If the rest of the kids were that much better, I could see it, but they all seemed to be on the same level.

darwinsmom, I chuckled at the summer camp experience, I absolutely HATED summer camp, it was never what they told the parents it was like. It is just so darn hard to know what is best and what will help rather than hurt.


That’s great news Milo. Good on Grand. You did great by him. You gave him understanding, andother way to look at it, showed him his possible options… And he made his choice what feels the best for him.

Lol, about those summer camps. Couple of years ago several coaches for tourleaders had a coaching for coaches weekend (I was one of them). Most of them are tourleaders I’ve known for so long, who coached me when I started out, etc… But there are also always people we know less well. So, we always do this introduction round, kinda like a small game. And in that game peope needed to guess something about the other. And one of these colleague coaches who coached me on the first coaching weekend I ever had said he was sure I went to the scouts as a kid. To his surprise I told him I never did, only summer camps which I never liked going to. LOL

Ox Drover

Milo, that is a great outcome for Grand even if he doesn’t get to play in the games, and he has felt that YOU were there for HIM. Great! And I think that Grandpa should tell the coach what an ass he is, as well.

My kids went to summer camp and P son cried to come home on Wednesday and C, the ADHD one, LOVED camp! Just the reverse of what I had predicted. Oh, well, you never know what the little ones will do.


THANKS EVERYONE – I don’t know what I would do without help and understanding from you all.

It was all great advice with the circumstances I spoke of. UNFORTUNATELY – Grand had lied his little butt off. Turns out he knew very well why he was benched during last night’s game. It was a punishment for something that Grand did during the practice the evening before. Something that absolutely deserved a severe punishment and would have gotten him a punishment at home as well. Knowing this Grand decided to LIE.

Because in the back of our minds (that gut reaction we all talk about) we found it very hard to believe that THIS coach would simply bench someone, the only one, for not playing well. For that reason, hubby talked to him about it instead of “going off on him” Found out the whole story and it was only a one game punishment. Grand did play today.

Now at home, video game taken away for the weekend, and lectures on trust and lying, Grand is not a happy camper. We are in for a weekend with snow and cold inside the home as well as outside. This will not be fun, for ANYONE.

Ofcourse our biggest issue – Grand has never been a liar, that is the one thing I was so grateful for. Now, am I about to see a change or was it a “kid” thing that just needs to be dealt with. How am I to know? I am not new to parenting and I have to think back to my youngest, a great young man, and the times he lied to save his skin, but also of my daughter that lied non-stop.

Trust me, I will be asking for help and more help on this one.

PS – darwinsmom – I am at this very moment checking out summer camps – the ones with very few luxuries.


Oh my, Milo. Good thing hubby went to talk to the coach.

You won’t know whether it’s a kid thing or something deeper with time. I remember lying a few times to my mom as a kid, and the few times I did they always found out… kept me from trying, plus I also learned that it was worse to lie than to just confess to my mistake in the first place… my parents always turned out to be more upset about the lie than the thing I lied about.

So, yes, normal children might lie a few times through their chidlhood, when they’re ashamed of confessing to something or disappointing their parents… if they learn that the lying is worse than just confessing the not so nice truth, it tends to go away again.

Not havint to parent, but I think it’s healthiest to show your immense disappointment about the lying, and make clear that though you don’t like what he got punished for, that the lying is worse.


now I really am concerned. It’s not about the lie, but about what the outcome of the lie was/could’ve been.

Your first reaction was to protect him and Grandpa wanted to lash out at the coach. It’s likely that Grand knew that this particular lie would elicit that reaction. It was the pity ploy and blame shifting and it worked. He manipulated your emotions.

As a kid growing up, when my spath brother or spath sister got in trouble at school, my parents and I would rally around them and go on the “attack” against the outsider. The golden children could do no wrong. It was never their fault. That is how it was framed by the spaths and we went along with it. This is typical behavior in an N- family with spaths in it. The other members are the enablers. After a lifetime of “pity me” getting them special attention, they become spaths.

I’m glad you are punishing him but that punishment is not a natural consequence of what he did, it is imposed by you. In addition, it would good if you began to question his explanations which include any “pity me” stories. Your own emotional reactions will be the red flag.

I know he is only a child and you naturally want to protect him, but maybe now is the time for you to start to model a new attitude: you will protect him, not because he appeals to your sympathy, but because/when you see that it is the right thing to do.

Ox Drover


I think the lie in this instance was a very NORMAL THING….few kids would have enough self confidence to NOT lie, I think in such a situation. So, as long as he knows he was CAUGHT and that LYING IS NOT OK, and that in the future you will not TRUST him so much when he tells you something (he really needs to know I think that lies DESTROY TRUST) and that you need to be able to trust him.

Tell him the story about the “little boy who cried wolf.” If you don’t know it let me know and I’ll type it out.

I really am glad that Grandpa did talk to the coach and that he found out the real reason Grand didn’t play.

So I think maybe part of the consequences for Grand should be that he has to APOLOGIZE to the COACH for lying about him. That way he is acknowledging his “sin” where it belongs, to the man whose reputation he “damaged” by telling a lie about him.

What do you think about hose consequences? I think he is old enough to understand why he must apologize to the coach.


Great idea, Oxy.
The lie must have natural consequences. Otherwise it becomes a game of not being caught.

My concern was that his lie incorporated a scapegoat.

Some kids would have just said they were sick that day, or that “I’m not good enough, but coach said, next game I can play if I improve”

It is the form of the lie that really concerns me. He was angry at being punished by the coach and turned it around to blame the coach for his circumstances. Nip that in the bud.

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