By | August 20, 2010 80 Comments

Woman fakes cancer to gain sympathy and cash

A 23-year-old Canadian woman, Ashley Anne Kirilow, shaved her head and starved herself to make it look like she was undergoing chemotherapy so she could solicit money from music and skateboard fans.

Her parents say they’ve seen the behavior since childhood.

Read Woman faked cancer to raise money on

And, read Kirilow blames cancer charity scam on miserable childhood, on

Links supplied by a Lovefraud reader.

Posted in: Media sociopaths

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Dani S

Her poor parents! They don’t even know what is wrong with their daughter, her father says I hope she gets caught as it will be the only way she will sort her self out.
Kirilow is full blown spath, she will not sort herself out! and how typical of her to blame her family for why she did it!
I have abandonment issues from my childhood and that would not make me pretend to have cancer and shave my head and eye brows off. To shave her head and tattoo her knuckles, she is obviously not a Narcissist as well as a spath!
Just another desperate pathetic spath that will use whatever means possible to manipulate good people! Shame on her, oh that’s right, she has no shame!


These stories make me sick!
As a C survivor and also someone who was portrayed by my spath husband as ‘faking’ cancer……..instead mentally ill…..
I hope to god they meet one day……

How sick is it to minimize these life threatening illnesses with exploit.

Bag her up and throw her in the river!!

Frank Lee Speaking

a woman in my town raised 20,000 euro to go to an African orpahange in Kenya she was to set up. She spent the money in Australia partying.

This kind of fraud is really common.

Dani S

why do they come here and Party? God if I new they were coming I would be waiting at the Airport for them!…
And more importantly, why are these not the tourist’s that get eaten by sharks and crocodiles?

EB I will hold the bag for you whilst you stuff her in! lol
This fraud maybe common because it is a quick way to extort large funds of money, but it’s still fraud and I hope they get caught up with.
I like it how Kirilow says she is going to get a job and start paying back the money, yer right I bet nothing ever gets paid back!


In the beginning of spaths sympathy ploy with my community… lady asked him… you need a fundraiser……he came home ans said….ya know….suzy will throw us a fundraisor to pay for medical costs…..
(Suzy is very well connected)….
This sounded like a great idea to spath….
We had health insurance……and spath could work….so wtf? why would he contemplate this offer??????

There was NO WAY I could have accepted this offer…..OMG….and be pranced around a dinner party with rich people making contributions to my ’cause’????
I was emotionally having a hard enough time with people dropping by meals and groceries…..but MONEY???
(Very generous of these folks, and THEY all meant well….and I appreciated it, but had a very hard time with it )……I prefer to be the one helping and giving…..

Now….If I felt I would have needed it….I would have certainly taken her up…..BUT we were NOT BROKE…..I was just sick!

How crazy that he thought this was a great idea…..can you imagine him taking off with the $$$ after the event, to invest it in POT to sell?
Walking around the event saying …..Uh, yes….just make the check out to Spath Bamboozle……Thank you very much…..


Frank Lee Speaking

Dani – she is still living in your country sadly. Married some local guy. No reciepts were asked for, so all cash in hand so she cannot be extradited. Her parennts are left here in shame. My apology to Australia. God only knows what scams she is pulling there.

This is one of the reasons I do not give to any old charity unless it is legit, local and I can see with my own eyes the work it does in the community.

Even some of these these major “respectable” well organised and slick marketing charities are set up by psychopaths who have found a way to get a 400,000 salary with huge travel and other expenses and then hand the left overs to people in need.

Sadly charity is a den of sociopaths and con artists.

Dani S

Gee EB surely he was only thinking of you! and he prob only needed the pot to cope with your illness…. LOL!
So glad you are free of C & free of the S!

Frank Lee do you know her name?

I wish there was a spath register!


Medical marijuana takes on a new meaning huh!

Frank Lee Speaking

Dani, I do but under strict Irish libel laws I would the one to go to jail if I made the accusation on a public forum. Even though it is true and report was filed with the police here. Interestingly the police were the ones who suggested a fuss not be made as it would just embarass her parents.

She lives in Perth and the guy she married I believe is Serbian. That’s all I am saying.

Dani S

lol that is fair enough Frank. It is amazing tho how many of these kinds of frauds that they get away with it……
I would be more embarrassed if I was the parent and she wasn’t bought to justice!

Ox Drover

In many “3rd world” countries, children are maimed, with eyes gouged out, limbs broken and amputated so that the pitiful little begger children will get more sympathy and money. Parents do this to their own children.

Also recently in my own state and read about another one where a mother and grandmother were pimpiing out a 15 year old girl for money and the girls went too the cops. Thank goodness, but really how many do NOT go to the cops, because they have been raised to believe it is okay what they are being done with?

How about the couple, the man went to prison for beating a 2 year old so severely he was massively brain damaged? Two years later, the mother starves him to death in the attic because she is tired of taking care of this child who was essentially a vegetable? Social workers KNEW ABOUT THIS BABY and did no follow up. He was 4 yrs old and weighed 12 pounds.

People do all kinds of things to themselves and to their children and others to get a Pity Ploy to beg from. We find it “unbelievable” because it would not even cross our minds to do such a thing. But we must remember that the people who do these things do NOT THINK LIKE WE THINK, they do not think like most people do. (Thanks be to God!)

Frank Lee Speaking

When I hear about pity plays and charity money I always think of the parents of Madeline McCann who went missing from a holiday apartment in Portugal about 4 years ago. She was 3 at the time and the eldest of the her siblings. They were left WITHOUT A BABYSITTER. Three infants.

Now whatever about the incredible strangess of the case from the parents refusing to answer police questions put to them, hiring their own dectives to rubbish the police investigation while claiming that the best sniffer dogs in the world were a waste of time when any other parent would do what it took to find their daughter. They have played the sympathy card to the extreme becoming heroes of child welfare and bathing in the media/celeb spotlight when most people I know can’t understand why they have not been made to answer for the inital child neglect which led to their daughter disapearence in the first place.

Everyone I knew could not believe the lack of emotion the parents and in particular the mother displayed. In many of the early images right after the vanishing of her daughter she is constantly seen smiling and waving to the camers. It was not until her PR person TOLD HER TO ACT MORE HEARTBROKEN that she did for the camera.

Look at the mother Kate McCann smirk at 1:28 when the interviewer says something about “we got to see an emotional side of you this week in the media”.

Watch the video again to 2:43 when the big grins come out when the camera is off. I dunno, maybe there is something wrong with me I would be in pieces if my child went missing and perhaps God knows what else done to her and I would not need to be coached on how to look devastated in public.

Watch this other video with the sound down to see the typical images they showed the world in the aftermath of their daughter vanishing.

I am not implying anything here except to show that on the basis on these people leaving their infant children alone in a foreign apartment without a babysitter, they should not of collected millions to pay to find her. They should of been charged with child neglect. The mother Kate McCann when asked about the children being left alone stated “everyone does it” and then in another interview “stop being so hurtful it won’t find my daughter”.

All that was done with the money was hire a bogus private investigation teams to whip up silly sightings around the world of dark skinned “abductors” who looked like cartoon pedophiles and other meaningless antics.

They also washed the apartment inculding their daughters cuddly toy destroying any DNA evidence and then they gave it to the police for testing…

They are both doctors by the way who should know about things like DNA.


Speaking of women, my friend Boo recently moved back from another state after three years. I have noticed a big change in ME, because three years ago I put up with her drama and chaos and tried my best to please her. Guess what. It has been almost three years that the spath bf has been out of my life. And I see where I don’t have the tolerance for her unhappy self. She complains about the crap she has to put up with while she is living with her sister and brother in law. I tell her too find her own place because that is their life and the way they do things..but it’s like she doesnt want to hear that, because she needs something to complain about. It’s always something dramatic with her. But there is a side to her I just adore (when there is no drama)….But she kissed me alittle too long last time she was here, but she did apologize for that because she saw I was uncomfortable..Now she is wanting to come visit and we will cook dinner and I am feeling like I need to cool things off and just meet her for dinner, dutch treat. But anyway the jest of this post is I dont need the drama, red flags are going off and I dont know wether to run or set firm boundaries or if I even want to continue with the friendship because I am finding it trying and see nothing in her future that will change…I have givin her lot’s of self help books and told her she needs therapy and she agreed to that, but any excuse for her too see a doctor that mite pescribe pill’s is a + for her..oh my


hens – glad to see you back from cyber pergatory. 🙂

i vote for set firm boundaries, and watch your response to how it goes. it’s really cool when we see that we don’t want something that would have be okay before.

all good things to you henry.


Hi everyone,

I found LF months ago, but I don’t blog very much, I think maybe because I always feel so emotionally exhausted when I talk about my experience with the spath, and I feel somewhat ashamed and embarrassed that I am obsessing over a stooopid Spath

I’ll tell ya what bugs me. I have EVERY reason to believe this guy is severely damaged, yet he’s SO smart and knows what to say, so i get confused. Does he get it? No, he isn’t in my life anymore, but he did just show up on my doorstep a month ago, and I’ve been triggering ever since. Wanna know what happened?


Anybody who fakes anything is an actor. I guess whether or not you get paid for it determines if you are performing or lying. What separates these fraudsters from old time medicine shows and snake oil salesmen I don’t know.

I think the condition of mules and carriage horses is raised by the fact that now, they don’t carry the false messages, the internet does and we can hold nothing against the faithful furry.

I agree with Frank Lee, those people should have been charged with neglect for leaving a three year old. And the resort closed if it was indeed common practice. I don’t know what I don’t know about it all, but I wouldn’t have done it. And I don’t think so many would have. There is something terribly wrong. But the media likes these attractive jet setters and gave them the attention and pitched the pity they craved. It was nonsense.

It doesn’t matter what the show is, we have the freedom to stand up and walk away, to withhold applause and choose not to buy tickets to the subsequent matinees.

Henry, I think about your drama queen. If you don’t want to be around it and there is medication abuse and more, then run, don’t walk. You may be lonely, but you aren’t stupid. If you need a rock in the leave it alone bucket, here you go.

Its so hard to disagree with popular people and opinions. Its so hard to choose to go without friends or lovers. But when you know what we know, how can you choose to do otherwise?

Hold out. The truth and what is real is worth it. No matter what popular opinion is…….

Ox Drover

Dear Hopeful.,

Yes, I’d like to know what happened, and I’m glad that you landed here a few months ago, but don’t be afraid to post here…if you’ve read enough you know there’s a lot of good comfort here. WELCOME!!!!! Tell us what happened…..

Ox Drover


That is interesting about your reaction to your friend’s drama, NOW after you have grown. I had the same experience with several friends that I had not realized that they were so “dramatic” or that there was a big question mark about their behavior and how I felt about some of the things they did….I axed these people out of my life, some totally NC and some just emotional NC because I do have relationships with their family members and so am almost forced to see them every so often.

The two people who were the closest friends that I realized were users, abusers, liars and thieves and I had put up with them because I almost thought I HAD TO…well I Did NOT have to. X’d those people out of my life. Set boundaries, they ignored. Set stricter boundaries, they ignored, then I set the ultimate boundary–GET OUT OF MY LIFE AND BTW STAY OUT.

I think your idea of the dutch treat with your “friend” & meet me at the eatery, is a good idea. Between the “too long” kiss, her bitchian about the people she is staying with, and the “let’s cook dinner at your house” sounds to me like she is trying to find a new “land lord”—reckon?

Sounds to me like she’s a couch surffer.


Thanks, Oxy.

I’ve read a lot of the articles here, as well as the responses. Of course, your posts have always been so enlightening…and funny!

My ex-spath is an extremely charming, well-educated, gregarious man. Instead of going through the whole story, which I’ve done on LF before, I’ll just break it down to say that the level of deceit and manipulativeness and callousness that this man has shown to be capable of is unfathomable to those with a conscience. I’m not telling anyone here on LF anything they don’t know.

Okay, so here is what I struggle so much with….and I’ve learned a bit about why by reading Sandra Brown’s (co-written by Dr. Leedom) book, “Women Who Love Psychopaths.” I struggle with the constant thoughts of KNOWING that he’s a spath, but then a part of me doesn’t believe it. They call it cognitive disonance in the book, and they say it’s one of the most prevalent and persistent aftermath symptoms.

I think I am too tired to write what happened right now, but i will come back tomorrow.

I just keep getting triggered by his talk about “knowing he needs help” and “going back to therapy” and he “really wants something real with someone” blah farging blah. He isn’t in my life, and it REALLY bothers him that I won’t have anything to do with him, and he KNOWS how much it hurts when he talks about getting it together for future relationships. He showed up at my house to “make amends” and tell me how sorry he was for anything that he did that affected my life. It ENRAGES me!! He did SOOOOO many things—-i will give examples tomorrow–that no normal man with a conscience or remorse would be capable of doing, and I NEVER got any inkling there was genuine remorse or empathy from him. He is SO good at SAYING anything at all–anything you want to hear, and he has proven it OVER and OVER again. Anyway, he shows up at my house and I get triggered and start crying and he holds me and tells me it wasn’t my fault, and then…guess what he does??? I can smell the alcohol on his breathe at this point, and he is holding me from behind, and he tries rubbing my chest–like I’m not gonna notice! Then, he starts pressing himself into me. he starts saying how he’s just gotten used to not having me in his life, and how sad this is that he is finally starting to “get it” and that this (he and I) is just so sad. He tells me how much we had in common, and that he was telling his therapist how much he regrets what he did and how it was a missed opportunity. I then said, “You told me I was just a F-buddy!” He told me that I started off that way, but turned into something so much more. WHAT?? Is he jokin’ me? He again says that he’s not dating and won’t be for a while. I’ve only heard that THREE other times, and he has ALWAYS been involved with someone–always has women around him. He says that he gets together with women to play board games, but says that the women are all in relationships, so he isn’t tempted. Give me a break. Anyway, he showed me the appointment card from his therapist. This was a guy he went to 8 years ago, when a girlfriend dragged him there. Last year, when he and I broke up, that’s when he said for the 2nd time that the “very last thing he should do is date” and that he was going back to therapy. At that point, he actually said that he “really wanted to F**k with the therapist, but that he wasn’t going to. So, this was the 2nd time we broke up and he says that after 6 months when he is doing well in therapy, he’s going to want to call me and says that he has the feeling he’s going to realized that he had exactly what he wanted. He never ended up going at that point a year ago, because he instantly got involved with someone else. He kept calling me, and i didn’t know he was involved with someone, and I asked if he was still going to therapy, and he said “that’s not the only way to make changes” and saying that he could only make changes with the “new people in his life.” He only alluded to this after I absolutely would not see him, and he was VERY angry.

So, the angle that he played when he showed up at my house is that he realizes that he treats people this way because he thinks he’s going to be abandoned, so he “abandons” first. And he sounds SO convincing, but I’ve heard this same stuff before. Let me give you an example. The second time we got back together, I gave him a book whose premise was all about how couples can learn to feel “safe” with one another. He read it in one night, and could spout the concepts in the book, as if he had flippin’ written it himself. He said, “you’re going to be sorry you gave me this,” and I had this horrible feeling and asked him if he was going to manipulate me with it. He said, “Noooo, I’m going to tease you!” Well, two nights later he called and said that we should take a couple of days apart to really think about what we each needed from one another. I had a horrible gut feeling, but he said, “I want you to FEEL SAFE WITH ME, and that’s why I think we should take a couple of days to really think about what we need. He shows up at my house drunk from a party he went to that night that I wasn’t invited to, and I checked his phone when he fell asleep. He had invited two women to this party. One was programmed into his phone as “Dad” and was a phone number he had shown me he called while he was in his bathroom, with me waiting in his living room. Of course, it was another woman who I spoke with the following day. I could also see from his texts that everytime he called me at night just so I would know he was home and not out galavanting, he was texting or calling other women right before and afterwards, such things as “sweet dreams” and the like. In order to build trust, it was HIS idea to call me every night we weren’t together, so I would know he was home. Anyway, that same night he shows up drunk and I find the calls/texts, I wake him up and tell him and he grabs his phone from me. I tell him to get the hell out numerous times, and he won’t. I crawled back into bed, SOBBING, because I didn’t trust my gut that he was a permanently damaged human being, and he tried putting his arm around me a bunch of times, and I kept flinging it off. He offered no words of comfort whatsoever. I was still SOBBING, and do you know what he did? He fell asleep and was literally snoring in 2 minutes. I called the police and had him kicked out of my house. When I spoke with him two days later, he pulled the same thing he is now—“See? This is what I do. I don’t believe I deserve something good, so this is what I do.” But he offered no apologies or remorse for what he did. I never heard true shame. Now, keep in mind, that the 2nd time we got back together, he said all of this too, and then STILL ended up doing all of this stuff to manipulate me. And, I definitely got a sense that he truly enjoyed seeing me upset, because then he could make me feel better by saying ANTHING, f**king ANYTHING if he thought it was what I wanted to hear. I’m so sorry for going on and on, but I need to give examples and get feedback that this guy is sick. Here is another; the first time we broke up , I truly thought he was a nice guy who had some problems establishing intimacy. Even my therapist was fooled!!! Anway, at that time he said that he had the feeling he was going to miss me the more time passed and even tried to get me to continue to sleep with him. I declined and said I needed time and for him not to contact me for a while. I said, as a joke, that if he finds he has made a terrible mistake, to call me. A week goes by and he calls and guess what he says??– “I’ve made a terrible mistake, and we just can’t give up on something like this.” A day later I got on his computer and found that he had been cheating on me the entire time, saying the EXACT same charming lines to women, and had been telling one women he loved her. It was very clear that he was even cheating on HER with others–not just me. I could see from thousands of emails he saved that he was clearly lying to her. I was so astonished by the level of deceit. It was unreal. This is the same man who told me on the first date how much monogamy was important to him.

So, now he shows up wanting to make amends, and I go back and look at what I know about this man—-that he is the consummate liar and manipulator and womanizer. But I am SO stuck on him getting better for someone else, and I’m having an extremely tough time getting past it. I keep thinking–neuroscience says these people are hard-wired not to change, but what if MY ex-spath happens to be the only flippin’ one who does? Am I being ridiculous? What if NOW he means what he says? I do believe he believes his own bullcrap.

So, the truth….by the examples I’ve given (and there are far more), is it obvious to others how sick this guys is and I’m just not getting it?

hehehe I said I was too tired to write. Looks like I was wrong! 😀

Ox Drover

Dear Hopeful,

You say you get so enraged when he SAYS this or that—STOP LISTENING!!!! NO CONTACT, even if he shows up at your door, do not open it. If you accidently open it it, SLAM IT SHUT.

You are NOT obligated to be “polite” to someone like him. Being polite to a jerk is something reserved for a cocktail party where you listen to some jerk and you know you’ll never see them again. It is NOT putting up with a PREDATOR and pretending that they are telling the truth or that you believe a word they say.

Sweetie, as long as you listen, you will hurt.



He will keep on with the LIES as long as you will listen. You are giving him a reward each time you listen. TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.

NO is a complete sentence. (((Hugs)))))


Thank, Oxy. I needed that hug. You are very sweet! You are right. NO CONTACT, and I did tell him that from now on, there would be none. I won’t answer calls, emails, nothing.

And you are right on another point–as long as I listen, he’ll manipulate–because he can. It IS a reward for him everytime I listen.

Part of me just wants to be validated that those behaviors he has exhibited are indicative of Spathhood, and I’m not just wanting to deem him as “sick” to make me feel better. Part of me wants him to remain “sick” because I cannot even fathom that these behaviors are transient. He a 40 year old man, for Pete’s sake.

So, just so I’m clear, you can recognize Spathiness in what I’ve told you? i know……BOINK!!!!



[cognitive disonance] thanks Hopeful for putting a name to that freaky feeling that just turn’s us inside out.dont be embarrassed about telling how you feel here because we know what your talkin x kept showing up at my door but when I stopped opening it he went away. They have no limit’s so it is up to us to end the crazy dance they do, they love to f-=k with our minds and make us crazy. No contact is our only weapon and our ultimate salvation.


Hopeful – you are very clear on your description of a toxic person, doesnt matter what you label him he is toxic .



Glad that term, “cognitive dissonance” helped. I know the first time it was described to me it was seriously an AHA! moment. The way it is described in Women Who Love Psychopaths is that the Spath is so full of “dichotomous” behaviors, that it leaves us with the seesawing feelings of feeling one moment that he’s “good” and then another feeling of “he’s bad.” We keep ping-ponging, if you will, back and forth because their behaviors and words are so contradictory. It’s absolutely crazy-making. And I love the term “Mind F**k”. Really, is there a better term to describe the descent into the Spath Abyss?? 😀 Thanks for your input, Hens!


Thanks, Oxy!! Really, I appreciate the support here–very much. I don’t post very often because I can get emotionally exhausted just thinking about it all sometimes, and I’m sure there must be others who might relate to that! Hugs!



I read somewhere that it is emotionally impossible to simultaneously feel pity and suspect deceit at the same time, the mind can only do one or the other. They enjoy the hell out of doing it ( f-ing with our minds), it gives them power…Hopeful have you ever read (Romeo Bleeds?) not sure who wrote it or how to find it but it maybe somebody will come along that does…you mite try to google’s a good read.


One thing we have all done after the ‘encounter’ with a spath is renegotiate our boundaries.

I personally won’t bother with (new) peeps who I am not totally comfortable with.
We all must decide for ourselves.

I’m going through some weirdness with a gf who has been 1000 percent behind me since I was 16.
She’s acting a bit odd the past few months…..and won’t tell me anything other than….no everythings fine….
My mind has gone to all sorts of places……but the reality is….if she won’t share…..I can’t be a friend to her the way i’d like…..and I am starting to pull away.
I dont know if it’s her husband controlling her, her health, her boredom in retirement……I have NO IDEA…..but she’s closed up. She only wants to talk about me…..and these days….my life isn’t very exciting and I don’t want to talk about EB’s life…..I want to reconnect with HER.

I know your lonely…..but you must decide what it’s worth having toxicity in your life?
If she’s a valued friend……and you think she’ll listen…..i’d take her to dinner and spill your guts….be honest with her about your uncomfortableness…..with the kiss and all her drama.
Maybe no one has ever pointed these thigs out to her?
But , however she responds…you were being a friend, and expressing your concern for her…..and you can’tdo a thing about making her change.
IF she values you….she’ll look deep…..if not….well…theres your answer.

Good luck…’s better to be alone, than with toxic peeps….YOU KNOW THIS!



I have read that and I agree whole-heartedly! I think it’s by Joseph Carver. He was trying to get something published, I think, but I don’t know that he ever did. But, his piece on “controllers” is excellent. Thanks for the reminder. I’m going to read it again!




It’s by Roger Melton, not Carver.


Have you ever heard the saying…..look at the brightside?

Well, with toxic people… must keep your mind focused on all the BAD!
It’s a constant reminder when you start doubting your own gut that…..Oh, yeah… do you explain XX and OO…..

Who gives a rat’s ass……how he was raised, or about his abandonment issues……THOSE ARE HIS issues…..and certainly not a licence to treat others like shit!

None of his appologies matter…..they are ALL manipulations….he can’t stand to have someone feel ill about him,,,,,and god forbid if you told someone….
Shiat….that’s just too much damage control for him.
So…..he already knows he can control you……and he will… long as you let him.

You OWE HIM NOTHING….If you want to heal…’ll stay away.
You can’t help him heal…..and he can’t help you heal…..your NOT a healthy partnership.

NO CONTACT…..nada, zilch, zippo!
And btw….you don’t need to tell him this either…..NEVER give a spath a heads up… only gives them time to plan or plot their next move to keep access to you.

Strike steathly…..and quietly. Just shake it up on your own….make your own decisions and DO IT!
It’s like an alcoholic announcing I’m gonna quit drinking.
Why announce? Usually they don’t.
If you do it in quiet…’ll succeed.
Make your own decisions now…..

Your on the right path. it’s a long journey, with many ups and downs…..Make a commitment to yourself to TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS!

Thanks for posting……post away girl…we are here!



Yay! Thanks for the reminder—-remember all the bad—there is s much of it, I can access bad memories with no prob!

You are right–I owe him nothing–This F**k-tard has treated me worse than anyone ever has in my 44 year old life. I do not owe him a muthaf**king thing.

Oh, and something else you said hit home! He truly CANNOT stand that someone feels ill will towards him. CAN’T FLIPPIN’ STAND IT. And you’re right on even another count—I DID out him on facebook to a couple of his women, and even male friends he was manipulating, as well as posted all his shite on womansavers and a few other sites. So he’s now doing impression management. He was extremely upset and acted all contrite and that he had reformed. He has tried every trick in the book to get me to have at least “something” to do with him. So, he finally tries the “I’m calling everyone I’ve ever hurt to make amends.”

I’m sorry if I am a bit sensitive, but something you said about not being able to help one another heal–that we’re not a good partnership. I do truly know that and have no illusions about it, but this doesn’t mean that he will heal for or with someone else? I hate even thinking about it.


This is where trusting your gut will guide you…..

NO…..however he treated you….he will treat others.
You know the gig.

Been there done that!

I remember about 8 months ago, standing in the grocery store line…..and I had this totally random thought of spath come to mind… guilty for driving a nail in his empty soul.
I thought …..damn, what if……he wasn’t as bad as I’ve ‘made’ him out to be…..
And I quickly thought of the moment this all came to light for me….
It was when the spath took the kids to the pot farm….for a week….bonding trip. I had no idea where they were going, but pleased to have the house to myself for a week. (I was homeschooling kids then)……when he left, I drilled them about a destination…..and he danced, and danced…..he ended up saying, as they were driving away…..we’ll call you.
Well….conveniently he didn’t call…..said he didn’t have cell service……As soon as he hit stateline….he lite up a joint with kids in car… freaked out…..and he told them….YA better get used to it, there will be lot’s more where we’re going.
And if you ever tell your mother, it’ll be the end of our family!
The week progressed from there…….fed kids pot leave ‘salads’ with ranch dressing…..told them it wasn’t the drug unless it was dried.
Had them ‘grooming’ plants, grafting, teaching them all about pot…..names of certain plants/buds…..cronic, purple bud, blah, blah…..
Kids had quite the homeschool horticultural week!

So… thought turned quickly to that….and that only…..and quickly turned my thinking back around to YA….you pegged him EB!
There is NO amount of counselling to fix those behaviors….that is a character ‘flaw’…..he was gonna do something….and he did it. Period!
And he expected the kids to keep it to themselves….because if they narked him off….THEY would be the cause of our family ending.

How could I have been wrong about THAT incident? How can one rationalize that? What is right about what he did…..or what have I misconstrued here?
It was VERY obvious…..this was just plain WRONG! On so many levels!

So….my point is… don’t have to ‘harp’ and rehash ALL of the bad behaviors….just keep ONE or TWO for reminders…..behaviors that you can’t justify or talk your mind out of……and file that in the always remember part of your mind……just for these doubting moments.
You won’t ever doubt yourself again……and at least for very long.

I was knocked over by how quick my mind refocused on the reality…..I was able to stop my thinking with that one memory.

With the spath…..he had to be loved by all……so I know my thinking just urks him…..HOW can I think he’s such a bad guy?
He has now surrounded himself with all the folks I grew up with and went to HS with……..MY PEEPS from back in the day.
This tells me he’s doing damage control……..
Well…..wait until I make a trip ‘back home’……and destroy all of his portrayals………covertly and matter of factly!
One day this will happen…..certainly NOT a priority……
But, i’m pretty sure he’s told all of them I’m dead too… it’ll be pretty funny to ‘show’ up alilve and well.
That’ll be enough exposure to alienate him from that crowd too…….
then, he’ll be off and running again! Finding new victims.

My therapist was the one who brought up the ‘helping’ each other through…..and that impossibilty.
We relied on them…..our partner, our friend… help us through things……..
THE ending we must do without them!
It’s natural for one or another to come back and want to confide or be held……..but you can’t…..and certainly NOT with a aspath.
Warriors husband pulls those strings in her…….Please help me though this……
As if SHE isn’t going through shiat herself.

I think this is part of forced growth.

You can do it…..YOU OWE HIM NOTHING!!!!

Dani S

Everything has been very quiet on my ex spath front. That was until 2 days ago when his ex boss phoned (whom the spath ripped off thosands of $$$ from) Ex boss said he saw him walking across the road and he almost hit him, unfortunately missed tho.
Today his ex girlfriend the one after me that he stole over $60k from text me to see how I was and to see if I had heard anything from him… she must have been having a angry moment as she said in the text “I still want my money back”

Then tonight spath’s middle childs mother phoned and said her friends husband took a flight from Melbourne to Brisbane today and Shane was on the flight, alone! Dropped off at the airport by his buxom blonde headed fiancé.

Shane never travels anywhere long distance unless he is up to no good! He has been seeing this girl that dropped him at the Airport for 12 months now.

12 months is usually the time where he starts feeling trapped and bored! And the majority of his relationships only last 12 months, except for the 3 relationships he has had that has produced children. oh us 3 lucky mum’s that got to spend on average 5 years with him lol.
Anyhoo he lives on one side of the city and I live on the other with millions of people in between, with not one mutual connection between us anymore and yet he still manages to get sited! I guess it helps when you are so notoriously evil!
But just strange how I haven’t heard a thing for months and he comes up 3 times in 2 days……
I feel for his buxom blonde, I know him better than anyone and he does not take interstate trips alone unless the relationship is heading down hill. Either it be another women or he is buying a car or something and driving it back. He buys lots of cars when he is in full spath motion, starts spending big when he feels his life is not forfilling for him…
Interesting…. It may only be a small amount of time before I am contacted by yet another disgruntled confused women that has just lost a lot of money!
I love every failed relationship he has because it reinforces every time that he is a big spath and it wasn’t me that was the problem in our relationship that he liked me to believe!
For a couple of seconds every once in a while I think maybe I had it wrong and he can love someone…pffttt no he cant!

Frank Lee Speaking

hens, my ex sociopath girlfriend even before the full extent of the McCann’s movements on the night their daughter went missing came out, was 100% certain that they child died alone in the apartment somehow through neglect and the parents hid the body, dug it up later and moved it across the border to Spain and reburied the corpse. She was uncanny absolutely certain this is what happened. Then when the sniffer dog evidence more or less confirmed this my jaw was hanging open. Then she said “they won’t go down for this, they are too good…too slick and well organised”

Sociopaths seem to have a sort of radar to detect others of their kind. It is not so much out of respect for each other’s turf and/or techniques, as more a case of just knowing the score. An awareness among their kind?

When the McCann’s stage a fake libel award for the media with the Daily Express in front of the High Court in London when no court case was even held, but to make it look in the media that they were awarded compensation for slander I knew what she ment about her saying “they are too good”.

Now when I look back at the videos of the case, knowing what I kow now about sociopaths, I see the sense of self-satisfied smugness and arrogance at their elluding real justice. To this day the comments by Gerry McCann “find the body and prove we killed her!”, or him storming out of TV studios when a reporter would dare to ask “why no babysitter” and his wife’s comments about “everybody leave us alone. Maddy can look after herself no matter who took her” told me all I needed to know.

But you are right. The sheer insanity of jounalism and media was shown for the collective mental hospital it is when that case was in full swing. Especially when the Daily Mail called Kate McCann an “English Rose and Inspirational Mother.” They were verbatim quoting one of the McCann’s own press releases about themselves.

Meanwhile their daughter’s post mortem DNA was detected in their rental car by Cadaver and Sniffer dogs 3 weeks after the child vaninshed.

And these dogs are always 100% correct.


Wow! That was totally messed up with what the lady did. I can’t believe her faking cancer. That is totally sick and ill-minded of her.



I wish I were farther along than I am. Sometimes I am still so filled with grief. It’s difficult wrapping my brain around the fact that despite anything he said, he was NEVER sorry, not for a second, about what he did. Never ever. He always moves on instantly to someone else, and you never get he feeling that he is ever. I thought I was in a relationship, initially with someone who was really trying, according to him, but I was only being used. When we broke up the first time he actually said to me, “Do you know you’re the first person that I haven’t used?” It was such a BOLD-FACED LIE!! Two weeks later I would find what an unbelievable pathological liar he is.

You’re right about them doing the same thing to everyone. He has a male friend who is out of state. They came up with a list of 10 questions to ask one another on a weekly basis, pertaining to accountability and integrity. This friend of his had NO idea what Spath was doing, but when I “outed” Spath his friend insisted he was trying to be a better man. Spath was conning this guy in a huge way, BOTH times we got back together, but he won’t listen. Then, when I got back together with Spath (Boink, I know) and he did things that were even worse, I outed him again, this time on Facebook because I know what a womanizer he is,and I truly wanted to warn women. The funny thing was, even though I outed him and found out he was cheating, I felt like I was in a daze and even hung out with him again. He’d say that I was the only one who knew everything. Anyway, another good male friend of his whom had know him 12 years, emailed me back and said that all this time, Spath had been telling him I was a stalker. What?? He said that ever since he had known him he had always been a shameless womanizer, but that he assumed he was being up front about his lifestyle. He also said that he would no longer associate with Spath because “the people whom you share your life should at least be trustworthy.” So, this was over a year ago, and I was still hanging with Spath. I called him to confront him about him calling me a stalker. We had plans to hang out that night, and do you know what he immediately said? He said that if I weren’t going to come over that he needed to make other plans. No apologies. The thing is, he is exceptionally good in the social realm, so he’s able to make friends easily, so it throws me off. I don’t think anyone would ever suspect he’s capable of these things. Also, when I posted on Womansavers, I got three emails from women telling me about their experience with him, so I have PLENTY of info that you are right, EB–he does it to everyone. This latest manipulation is throwing me off a bit—that he now sees it, he’s making amends to everyone he has hurt, I was right—blah blah blah—all the while trying to feel me up and see if I’d bite. The next day I started to think about how he was holding me and at the same time trying to feel my chest and then pressing himself into me from behind. This was a month ago.I could also smell the alcohol even thought he wasn’t acting drunk. I got so angry and I didn’t want him to think I believed his chit. He had said, “So, are we okay?” when he left my doorstep that night. So, I called to tell him how inappropriate he was and he said that I was right and he was sorry. I told him that everything he says resonates as bullchit, and he said, “But I did what I said I was gonna do!” He had said that he was going to tell his friend that he was doing the “accountability” stuff with, that I wasn’t a stalker.

Then, I start to think, does he really see this NOW? Is he not lying NOW? Ugh. I’m ashamed to admit those thoughts but that is what I struggle with. Hugs to everyone!



Frank Lee,

I hadn’t really followed the McCann stuff all that much only because I get sick and tired of hearing those things on the news. I didn’t know that sniffer dogs had detected post mortem DNA. Why were they never arrested then?

Frank Lee Speaking

hopeful, the lab in the UK which verified the DNA sample detected by the sniffer and cadaver dogs “LOST” THE SAMPLE…

Gerry McCann is very well connected to the British Labour Party and he is a friend of the then UK PM Gordon Brown who stated he would get the McCann’s name cleared no matter and had a talk with the Portuguese PM expressing his “concerns” about the case. (translation: he knew he backed the losing horse and as trying to save his political skin by making sure the truth about the McCann’s never came out)

a website which is well worth reading and only uses actual facts is here:

When you see the information concerning the endless lies the McCann’s and their freinds made up about the circumstances of Maddy’s dissapearence it will make your stomach turn. There was no abduction and no proof of any. Especially how the “free press” covered this circus.

For instance, they called the UK foreign office before they alerted the local police. The McCann’s did not even help the search. Half of Portugal was out looking for their daughter while they went jogging and flying around Europe in a private jet.

but the most telling of all is the 40 questions Kate McCann refused to answer in order to help find her daughter:

These are the questions – now ask yourself would you refused to help a police investigation lookng for your daughter who may have been taken by a pedophile if that is what you fear:

1. On May 3 2007, around 22:00, when you entered the apartment, what did you see? What did you do? Where did you look? What did you touch?

2. Did you search inside the bedroom wardrobe? (she replied that she wouldn’t answer)

3. (shown 2 photographs of her bedroom wardrobe) Can you describe its contents?

4. Why had the curtain behind the sofa in front of the side window (whose photo was shown to her) been tampered with? Did somebody go behind that sofa?

5. How long did your search of the apartment take after you detected your daughter Madeleine’s disappearance?

6. Why did you say from the start that Madeleine had been abducted?

7. Assuming Madeleine had been abducted, why did you leave the twins home alone to go to the ’Tapas’ and raise the alarm? Because the supposed abductor could still be in the apartment.

8. Why didn’t you ask the twins, at that moment, what had happened to their sister or why didn’t you ask them later on?

9. When you raised the alarm at the ’Tapas’ what exactly did you say and what were your exact words?

10. What happened after you raised the alarm in the ’Tapas’?

11. Why did you go and warn your friends instead of shouting from the verandah?

12. Who contacted the authorities?

13. Who took place in the searches?

14. Did anyone outside of the group learn of Madeleine’s disappearance in those following minutes?

15. Did any neighbour offer you help after the disappearance?

16. What does ‘we let her down’ mean?

17. Did Jane tell you that night that she’d seen a man with a child?

18. How were the authorities contacted and which police force was alerted?

19. During the searches, with the police already there, where did you search for Maddie, how and in what way?

20. Why did the twins not wake up during that search or when they were taken upstairs?

21. Who did you phone after the occurrence?

22. Did you call Sky News?

23. Did you know the danger of calling the media, because it could influence the abductor?

24. Did you ask for a priest?

25. By what means did you divulge Madeleine’s features, by photographs or by any other means?

26. Is it true that during the searches you remained seated on Maddie’s bed without moving?

27. What was your behaviour that night?

28. Did you manage to sleep?

29. Before travelling to Portugal did you make any comment about a foreboding or a bad feeling?

30. What was Madeleine’s behaviour like?

31. Did Maddie suffer from any illness or take any medication?

32. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister?

33. What was Madeleine’s relationship like with her brother and sister, friends and school mates?

34. As for your professional life, in how many and which hospitals have you worked?

35. What is your medical specialty?

36. Have you ever done shift work in any emergency services or other services?

37. Did you work every day?

38. At a certain point you stopped working, why?

39. Are the twins difficult to get to sleep? Are they restless and does that cause you uneasiness?

40. Is it true that sometimes you despaired with your children’s behaviour and that left you feeling very uneasy?

41. Is it true that in England you even considered handing over Madeleine’s custody to a relative?

42. In England, did you medicate your children? What type of medication?

43. In the case files you were SHOWN CANINE forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

44. When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

45. When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

46. When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

47. When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?

48. Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?


Q. Are you aware that in not answering the questions you are jeopardising the investigation, which seeks to discover what happened to your daughter?

A. ‘Yes, if that’s what the investigation thinks.’

Read more:–did.html#ixzz0xFgeXVtH


I’ve been reading new/old posts and it has been so helpful. Jeez, everyone here has gone through such pain with these damaging people.


Frank Lee,

Thanks for posting the info. I was absolutely amazed how she answered the question about withholding information and possibly jeopardizing the investigation. I don’t even know what to make of her answer. It’s just bizarre, and utterly vague. It’s a “crazy-making” answer–something you WOULD expect from a Spath. Thanks for the link as well. There’s a lot of info, and I read just a bit, but will read more when I have some more time. Thanks for taking the time to post it.


Frank Lee Speaking

hopeful, one last thing I woud like to add is that maybe Kate McCann is not a sociopath and may just be a cold mother or even being drugged by her possible sociopath husband to go along with this? Her strange behaviour at times does suggest this. She is often ‘not there’… Many people have repoted that she acts mind controlled almost.

Regarding Gerry McCann. one of his friends and who was also among the group who went on holiday with them was a known pedophile. Yes, you heared me correctly. A known pedophile on holiday with you and your kids…

To make this even worse a UK couple who were socialising with the McCann’s a few days before the child went missing claimed that this pedophile said something about Maddy and then made a gesture of fallatio using his finger in his mouth. Gerry McCann burst out laughing. The horrified British couple reported the event to the police and it was published in a Spanish newspaper. The McCanns said they would sue but they did not.

Not to bombard you with more info but there are many Lovefraud type sites on the net doing what the crazy media and journalists should be doing to the McCanns.

That’s the last I’ll mention on this case as it sickens me too that they got away with this. They should at the very least been charged with child neglect and endangerment. After that who knows.

Gerry and Kate McCann have collected countless millions in charity donations and endless sympathy which they milked in like pros… Do the math.


Frank Lee,

Wow! That story about the pedophile on vacation with them? Highly disturbing! If that is true that her own father burst out laughing at such a disgusting comment about his own little girl…..can you imagine? If it were me, that person would literally be running for their life. There’s something seriously wrong there, I would imagine.

So, I assume, they’ll continue to look for their daughter’s abductor just as OJ continues to search for his late wife’s killer.

As far as Kate not being a Sociopath, or possibly drugged…I suppose anything is possible. It’s so bizarre. She could just be a “cold” mother, but then, sociopaths are emblematic of COLD! Who knows, eh?


Frank Lee,

The information about the disappearance of Maddy McCann was so disturbing to read. I had no idea about those people, the depth of their deception. The dad seems especially disturbing, his eyes aren’t smiling when his mouth is. Kate McCann could have easily answered those questions, what mom with a missing child would not answer questions to aid in the investigation?

Hopeful (I like your name!)

Your spath is trying to ‘make amends’ because he wants to be seen as a good guy! EB was right about that fact, they NEED to be the good one, the victim of circumstances and not to blame. And boy, they can talk and talk and talk, so by the end of the conversation we wonder what just happened! They circle around and avoid the issues with a great deal of skill, fully using their gifts of shock and awe to leave us with feelings of guilt and questioning why we didn’t give them another chance.

Posters on LF have similar stories when describing spathy behavior, be it man or woman or donkey. Yours is trying to be seductive (classic spath), the good guy, making ‘amends’ (yeah, right), and weasling his way back into your good graces. Don’t fall for it.

Let me tell you what my narc/spath has offered me lately to not file for divorce. A romantic trip to Napa valley, a new car, open a business because step-daughter (whom he never cared about) needs a job and she could sew and design clothes in our new boutique, re-new our vows and devote his life to making me happy, anything I want, he said he will die before me so can’t I wait until then to start a new life, he doesn’t believe in divorce (this is his second marriage but it was her fault), will support me until I get my degree with driving the kids to activities, blah blah blah blah blah…etc.

If only he lived in Disney World, he could live in a magical place!

I could do this if I forgot about the lies. But I want to live in reality, no matter if it’s painful or not. It can also be incredibly beautiful, joyful, boring, fun, happy, sad, loving, hating, feeling contentment, being sexy, laughing, crying, and being alive. I wouldn’t trade my soul for his magical thinking.

I would have to forget about him trying to commit me, his sexual acting out, our daughter hating him because of his inappropriate behavior, his porn use, phone sex, lies, lies, lies, telling his friends I’m crazy, threatening to take the kids away from me and basically 16 years of him never saying “I’m sorry” and brain washing me that this was all in my imagination. Nope, I’m not believing the new, reformed husband.

Don’t believe your ex, he wants something that you can’t give him and don’t want to give him. Be ok with you because you are worth it. No regrets!!! Keep pushing forward and you will start to feel better. The minute you doubt yourself, you get sucked back in and is that a place you really want to go?



I like your name, too. heheh Thanks so much! Hell, I woulda taken the trip to Napa!! 😀 Ha! I’m joking. I’m so glad that LF has been a help to you. I think your ex does indeed live in a magical place in his distorted mind!!

Ya know what bothers me? And it’s sick, I know. It bothers me that he isn’t wanting me back–he know he played that card twice after the first breakup and manipulated and lied like only people who have been involved with spaths know. He wanted to hang out but then said, “You’re right. It’s too easy.” Then he started saying that talking to me reminded him of just how much he did enjoy my company. He said a number of times that it was “so sad” that this had been a missed opportunity, but that we have our “patterns.” We just keep falling back to he same patterns, he says. This guy NEVER ever tried to have any transparency in the relationship. When he was telling me how much he wanted to build trust and really try, he was lying, cheating and manipulating. Do you know that the last time I found him cheating (after he had told me hours before that he wanted me to feel safe with him), he told me”See, this is what I do. We were on he verge of making BIG changes.” He can say the words, but I DO NOT get any sense that he feels real remorse or shame. He also knows I go to therapy, and know the lingo, about abandonment, bla bla bla. He kept saying that we don’t challenge one another since we have the same abandonment issues. The I start believing it, and despite all the heinous spathy behavior, I then start wondering if this dynamic was just with me. We didn’t challenge one another, etc..

Ox Drover


I remember reading about this case but didn’t keep up with the details of it. Lately an 11 yr old English girl was left unattended on a beach in Spain by her mother who went drinking. We’ve had a young single mom smother her two kids then try to pretend she accidentally drove off into a river and they drown. She wasn’t bright enough to even get her own dress wet or realize the kids would have have water in their lungs if they went into the water before they died, another father beat his 2 yr old son to death “teaching him to box” (the child’s maternal grandmother reported that the father and mother fought physically on a frequent basis)—and so on. Maybe all, or none, of these parents were psychopaths, but it is still a terrible thing when young children are subjected to such abuse.

Mandy’s parents can’t claim poverty, lack of education or any other circumstance, as a reason for them to go off and leave her unattended while they went to dinner. DUH!??? While the abusers in other cases can claim stupidity, poverty, lack of education, and lack of parenting skills preparation. I think though, there is NO EXCUSE that will justify that kind of behavior outside of fairly severe mental retardation. In which case CPS should be sanctioned for letting a child live in such a situation of possible danger of abuse and neglect.

Frank Lee Speaking

OxDrover, at the time the Maddy McCann case was in full circus mode the same British and Irish media and journalists who were fawning over the McCanns showed a completely different approach to an English mother who was a hippy type and she and her 16 year old daughter moved to India. The daughter was tragically murdered and raped.

I recall a regular column by a famous British TV presenter named Judy Finnigan who said that the mother of this 16 year old girl should be charged with “endangering her daughter”. Yet this same journalist a few weeks prior in her article called people “scum” who dared to call the McCann’s who left 3 babies under the age of 4 in foreign hotel room with no babysitter, child neglectors. Finnigan’s logic was “Doctors would never behave like that!!!!”

Judy Finnigan interestingly enough is married to a past-middle aged toyboy and TV presenter called Richard Madeley who cheated on his first wife 20 times during their short marraige and freely admits this. But he is devoted to Judy…

Ox Drover

Well, people’s opinions all depend on WHOSE OX IS GORED, don’t you think? “Doctors wouldn’t do that” LOL ROTFLMAO for sure! In fact, the truth is that lots of psychopaths make it through medical school, law school, are elected to high offices, or make it to the corner office. If you don’t believe me, read Bob Hare’s book “Snakes in Suits.”

The “talking heads” or “presenters” as they are called in UK are nothing more than people who can read a script or tele prompter. They don’t have to have a PhD or any degree that I know of, it is only how they appear on camera. We even have some here that DO have degrees and are still idiot savants.


i swear this young woman could have been a prodigy of my ppath. reading the first Star article, was like a window into the early life of the evil lying sack of crap.

she has ‘died’ of cancer in a number of her cons. in her con of me, it was ‘his’ partner who was dying of cancer when we met. held his @#$%^& little hand through that.

cancer, blindness, rape, incest, heart disease, any number of physical and mental diseases – she bundles variations of these in any one scam. I like what the father of young woman in the article had to say, ‘ she uses pity to control people.’ as does the evil one.

i am going to try to contact her dad and suggest he get hooked up with lovefraud. she’s caused a lot of people in her family a lot of grief. he holds a ray of hope; but she’s never going to ‘straighten out’.


hopeforjoy – i really like your above post to hopeful, wherein you outline the ‘offers’ and the ‘reality. having those two lists side by side really illustrates the experience of being with a ppath – and why we experience such dissonance.

i think life may just come down to what people ‘do’. and that we can never trust words unless they are consistently backed up with congruent action. one of the most difficult things for some of us is knowing what ‘i love you’ means. it’s just words, and within non disordered folks a wide range of behaviour can be accepted as loving. we need to establish what is ‘loving’ in *our own minds.*..and no matter how much someone says they ‘love’ us we have to evaluate if their actions match our idea of what is loving.

this week has been a tough one for me. work is feeling really intense for me. i am asking for help. very specific help. i am getting some, ‘you’re doing great’ and some lack of interest in my request from the the folks i work for ….i don’t know what the eff is going on. my anxiety is really high. from being spathed and unwell my anxiety is high and i really am having a hard time sorting this out. but after writing the above to you i see a lack of congruence in the organization with one message coming from the director and another from the board (red flag) and there is a silence from individuals(red flag) i am finding extremely unnerving (red flag). the quote ‘ silence is a text easily misunderstood’, comes to mind.

Ox Drover

It just dawned on me. Remember that psychopath woman I took in last summer (she was posing as a victim of a psychopath) when I told her she had to leave here “because you have not seemed to gain any benefit from being here these 3 months” (in other words you won’t look for a job and all you do is give me excuses why all you do is sit on your arse) and she was into this big pity party crying about how I had abused her just like every one else. Ya da ya da

And she stopped in the middle of a crying jag and asked “What does an inverted nipple mean?” Well, just about any woman over the age of 15 knows that if an outie nipple becomes an innie nipple, you need to go get it checked. BUT there are women who have ALWAYS had an innie nipple, or two innie nipples, and that’s OK it is just if there is a SUDDEN CHANGE.

So anyway, I said “well….” and repeated what was in the above paragraph. Where upon she FLIPPED out her boob out of the top of her sun dress for me to examine the nipple.

So I said, “Maybe you need go get that checked.” Then of course she said “Well, I don’t have any money to go to the doctor” So I replied, “well, you should have gone to the free clinic when I offered to take you” and she came back with “but you were always so busy I HATED TO IMPOSE.” (see it was MY fault she was “dying with cancer,” so how could I insist that she leave here?)

LOL I had forgotten that one, but it really does indicate how the Ps try to pin blame for everything on your head so you will feel sorry for them. I had spent 3 months trying to get this woman to take advantage of a free medical and a free dental clinic and she wouldn’t go, but the minute I tell her she has to leave, she comes up with “breast cancer and a tooth ache” that are MY FAULT.

One, I have shared your frustration with some jobs, and when you don’t know what you are supposed to be doing or getting mixed messages from different “bosses” an sources it can provoke anxiety delux brand.

You know though, just look at it this way. I DID NOT HAVE A JOB WHEN I STARTED HERE. The worst they can do is to fire me. So if you don’t peg your self esteem on the job then they can’t really hurt you. I always pegged my self esteem to how I ‘performed’ in the job, and I shouldn’t have. I should have validated myself. So hang on and don’t let their disordered problems become yours, just do the best you can with the information you have and hang the rest! (((hugs)))

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