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By September 29, 2011 167 Comments Read More →

Woman swindles elderly man for $2.2 million

Norman Butler of Washington worked all his life as an optometrist and managed his money carefully. When he and his wife, Mary, retired, they were financially comfortable. Mary died in 2004, and the next year, Norman met a widow online.

Except Shea Saenger wasn’t a widow. She was married con artist, who was also a convicted murderer. As Butler developed Alzheimer’s disease, she swindled him for $2.2 million.

Doug Butler, a Lovefraud reader and Norman Butler’s son, sent a link to his story.

Read Murder, fraud, $2.2 million somewhere, on ArkTimes.com.


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167 Comments on "Woman swindles elderly man for $2.2 million"

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Thank you Donna!

The more people who know about this ‘person’ (and her family) the better.
You can read about dad’s case on my web site

http://www.butlervsaenger.com

Doug Butler

Doug, I read your website when you posted (from the link with your screen name on LF) and I must say it made me SICK!

I live in Arkansas and used to go over to Hazen, Carlisle, and Lonoke (small farming communities east of Little Rock) so know that area well, and the police departments too.

Unfortunately, I have a son just like Shea and he is scamming my own mother from inside his prison cell where he is in for murder as well. Our prisons are full of people scamming vulnerable others on the outside for money.

I am sorry that you have not been able to get the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette to publish your story, but the Arkansas Times is a GOOD newspaper in my estimation. You were FORTUNATE to get the Feds to step in and prosecute her because it is difficult if not impossible to get the county prosecutors to even notice such a case where there are no “blood or bullets” involved.

Congratulations on at least getting some prison time for her and a CHANCE at getting your money back. I take my hat off to you for your hard work in bringing this woman to some kind of justice. As we say around here TOWANDA!!!! God bless.

18 months ago I was talking to any one I could about dad’s case. Sheriff, Marshall, FBI, Post Office. I was trying to find a way to drag in Homeland Security and ATF. We got very lucky with the Postal Inspector in Seattle. She is the one who worked the case and sold it to the US Attorney.

The local Sheriff’s Deputy I met with several times was polite, professional, sympathetic and completely useless. If the local prosecutor will not bring charges local law enforcement cannot do a thing. We could not even get the prosecutor here to enforce the Protective Order (violated 6 times by my count). I think I would have to be trading gunfire with someone in the courthouse parking lot before the prosecutor gets concerned.

All of that is pretty much what our attorney told me at our first meeting. After we do all of the work and wrap it up pretty for the prosecutor then MAYBE it will get prosecuted.

http://www.butlervsaenger.com

Doug

Doug, many of the bloggers here, including myself, and Donna have had less luck than you have in getting “justice” for our causes, so as little as you have gotten, you have gotten SOME which is more than many of us get. It just seems WRONG that these slimebags can get away with what they do and not really pay for their crimes, but sometimes that is the way it goes. I do know though that there are plenty of people here who believe you and truly know how you feel. I am so grateful though that you found ONE law enforcement person who not only would listen but would ACT. Sometimes the stories are so unbelievable too that they sound like bad fiction, and it is difficult to get anyone to believe in your cause.

I realize too, it is NOT “just about the money” it is about JUSTICE for your dad’s life time of hard work and thrift versus the scam artist’s con.

MY take (for what it is worth) is that she felt like a BIG SHOT giving her relatives money and they were greedy so took it without questions….psychopath’s motives are not always what WE would consider a “motive”—and sometimes just to feel like a “big shot” and give money to her relatives would be enough “reward” to a psychopath’s ego. As for the relatives, they are just apples that didn’t fall far from that “tree” of EVIL.

Recently I submitted a victim impact to the court to be used in the sentencing report for the judge. This is how I ended:

This is not a crime that is just about money.

It is not just about just one person. My father’s three children, two grand-children and a great grand child as well as my ability to deliver quality program to my Boy Scouts and do justice to my position on the board of out local Thrivent Financial chapter have all been severely impacted by Shea Saenger’s crimes.

My father has been has been forced out of the home that he built for my mother and him to live in until they died. It is the home that my mother died in. That house is now becoming a rental property so that the income from it can be used to pay for my father’s expenses.

At some point in the near future my father will become an additional burden on an already strained Medicaid system. That is not something he ever anticipated or wanted to happen and he had made provisions so that it did not. Shea Saenger’s actions have undone all his planning and preparations and that makes it a crime against everyone in this country who has ever paid taxes.

I really believe that the only reason we got Saenger prosecuted was blind luck. For whatever reason the case grabbed the Postal Inspector in Seattle and she did not let go of it. She worked the case hard and did a hard sell to the US Attorney. I think that if a different agent had been assigned we would have a completely different outcome.
I wrote a letter to the Chief Postal Inspector commending her and just put in a plug for her in letters I sent to our Congressional delegation. She’s earned more but that’s all I can do.

Dear Dndacct,

Your letter to the sentencing hearing is WELL written and does truly express my feelings as well. People like this “person” did not only hurts the person they directly hurt, but their family and ultimately the tax payers and honest people of this country. The cost to prosecute and incarcerate that “person” is way above what she cost your dad in terms of just dollars and cents….but in terms of human suffering it is incalculable.

I do hope you can recover some funds for your dad’s care, he deserves that…her leech relatives do not deserve his hard earned and saved money, but my guess is that they have spent it –“living it up” on “free” money they did not earn. They are obviously as bad as “that person” is or they would have gladly done their best to refund all they could. NO honest person would want STOLEN property. I don’t see a reason in the world they should not be PROSECUTED FOR “RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY”—-if you robbed a bank and “gave” me the money, then were convicted of robbing the bank, I would be required to give back the money you “gave” me. So I do not see a BIT of difference in this case just because the people bought houses or cars with it before you found it…it is STOLEN property.

I share your frustration….at this point I am helpless to prevent my maternal DNA donor from giving everything she has to my psychopathic son…and the more money he has, the more danger I am in as well. Though an elderly person who has lost judgment but still knows who the president is and what year it is, is “legally sane” and cannot be kept from giving everything they have away, you were fortunate to get the POA from your father while he could still legally give it to you.

Mine is fighting me tooth and nail, and another friend of mine has a father who is already paupered giving money to a woman he met in a parking lot. She shows up every month when the “check” comes and leaves when the money is GONE. He is penniless by the 15th, without food, transportation or utilities at times. Nothing anyone can do to protect him.

Before I retired I worked with the families of senile elderly and demented patients and it is very difficult to make arrangements for them if they are not cooperative, and many are not. Unfortunately it isn’t illegal to be gullible, and the gullibility is the first sign of oncoming dementia/senility which is why so many people are cheated at that stage/age in their lives.

In some ways though I think that senility is a BLESSING to the elderly….you said you thought your father had completely forgotten about this woman in only a little time after he had no contact with her. Sometimes they can live very peacefully in the past and have no memory or grief from the present.

Thank you for being the kind of man who went after this crook and for being lucky enough to get her what she deserved. Ya dun a gooooood job! Bravo!!! TOWANDA!!! I will gladly pay my taxes to keep her there.

Doug:

I just read the full article and also looked at your website. I am not saying anything new here, but I am appalled that the relatives would not try to give back anything they had left. How can they sleep at night knowing the money was stolen? And they had to know something was up…that woman had nothing and yet she was giving them millions of dollars??? Wow, I am having less faith in people as days go by. It’s absolutely amazing to me what people will do. It sounds like the whole family and not just Saenger are a bunch of idiots.

I am so very sorry that your family has had to endure this trial. I know how much it must have hurt everyone involved.

Donna:

Yes, and because it’s genetic, it will never cease to exist as long as psychopaths and spaths keep having children which unfortunately they will. I know environment plays somewhat of a role, too, but without some nurturing in there to stop the psychopathy, there is no chance for this insanity to stop.

Our original civil suit in Washington is over. The last appeal has been dismissed and we have a judgement against Saenger which is worthless because she has nothing. The criminal case will be over when she is sentenced on October 14.

Now we have to get through civil suits against Saenger’s relatives in Arkansas, Mississippi and Louisiana. That’s where we have some hope of recovery.

My younger sister said that maybe by doing this we could stop the family but we are two generations too late for that. Saenger’s brother has kids and both her sisters have grandkids now.

If you read some of the messages or comments on my website from Saenger’s nephew Chris Haycraft you get a good picture of the mindset of everyone in the family.

Doug:

UGGHH…I read Chris’ comments and yep, he is a hillbilly idiot. I also read the first email from Rhonda. If what she is saying is true, I can see how the family maybe resisted the money at first and were only believing her lies when she told them she married a wealthy man, etc., etc., BUT…once they found out the truth and KNEW the money was stolen, that’s when their responsibility to give back what they could should have kicked in (should have if they were NORMAL). I realize they may have not had anything to give back at that point as they probably blew it all, but cars or houses should have been seized. I don’t understand why the authorities have not gone after them for receiving stolen property?? How is everyone getting away with this??

Doug,

I imagine that the Postal Inspector that was “grabbed by your case” had an up close and personal experience with a psychopath in their own life.

I am so sorry for what your family has gone through. Back some 50 years, my grandfather married a P shortly after my grandmother died. Within a year, he was dead and she walked away with EVERYTHING, including family heirlooms that had been passed down through generations. She refused to give his daughters anything that had been their mothers, even things of little monetary value. I was just a child, but I remember how heartbroken the entire family was.

Milo,

Yep, that has gone on for as long as humans have been around. Marry the old man and get the loot—-wonder if she poisoned him?

Ox Drover – Washington state has some laws on the books for the protection of ‘vulnerable adults’ which Arkansas does not. As laws go these are fairly recent and law enforcement does not know what to do with them. And in my opinion they do not have much bite in them, the potential downside for an abuser is pretty wimpy. A couple of the large counties in Washington had special units in the prosecutors office just to handle these cases but I believe they are all gone now, a victim of budget cuts.

Even if law enforcement did not deal with it these laws were the basis of our civil suit against Saenger. The information that has come out of that suit is the foundation of everything else we have done trying for some recovery.

Oxy ~ I didn’t bother to bring that part up. Yes, we do think that she had something to do with his death. She called the family doctor to the house, after he was already cold, had him declared dead and sign the death certificate. Then got hysterical at the mention of an autopsy. None was ever done.

My young cousins and I were always scared to death of her, little did we know we were staring at evil.

Louise – Over a year ago we had some small hope that there were some decent people in the family and when they knew the truth about Saenger and the money they would make some effort to make it right.

I have thought all along that the most reasonable thing for Saenger’s family to do was to all get together, sell all of their toys, refinance, restructure and raise as much as cash as they could and say to us ‘we didn’t know what happened, now that we know this is what we can do to make it right.’ Instead of that we got Chris ‘stick it up your a**’ Haycraft.

This has given me a lot of time and incentive to look into the family. Now we have found out that Shannon Wiggins is on probation for stealing from a church, her mother Bo Parker (Saenger’s sister) was allegedly embezzling from her employer and Haycraft was fired from his job as a corrections officer after he beat a man badly enough to hospitalize him for two days.

My belief is that they all thought they were protected by distance and that I would not be either able or willing to go after them. They’re wrong.

dnd,
if they are spaths, which I suspect that they are, they actually enjoy the drama MORE than they enjoy the money itself.

When they are in the middle of a fight or any other type of drama, they feel important and alive. It’s important that you don’t provide any drama at all, if you can help it. Keep the attention off them and focus it on the legal issues. Spaths love attention. What they can’t stand is boredom. If they have to keep going to court and they have to stand around waiting or filling out paperwork, they will lose interest much faster.

As for yourself, when you speak with them or have any contact, show no emotion at all. Be dry and boring. speak only about numbers.

Dndacct,

Yes, there are some genetics involved, and it seems that they are a NEST OF VIPERS….and Donna is right, you’ve gotten involved in a whole family of psychopaths, not just one.

The LAST thing they want to do is to return stolen property because they FEEL ENTITLED TO IT and the distance does make it more difficult for you to prosecute them or to actually get more than a court order—unfortunately the court makes the order, and then YOU HAVE TO ENFORCE IT. You have enough money involved though that you might be able to get a COLLECTION AGENCY/SKIP TRACER to take the case for a percentage of the amount, thus taking the day to day skip tracing off your back and let you get back to your job and your life.

I’ve had some judgments that it just wasn’t worth the time to track them down it would have returned me 5 cents on the dollar IF THAT, and of course wasn’t big enough that a tracking agency would have wanted it. You might also get INTEREST AND COSTS added to your judgment if you are lucky.

Unfortunately the small time cons know that it won’t be worth it to get a SMALL judgment enforced, but with a SIGNIFICANTLY LARGE ONE like over 2 million dollars it would be.

My husband was conned out of about $10 million by some corporate business cons, but he died before the suit was settled and due to the “rules of evidence,” MY testimony would have been “hear say,” we ended up having to drop the suit and they got away with it. Even though we had the documents, without his testimony the case was lost. It is frustrating, but you just do the best you can and then you must “let it go” emotiionally and not stay bitter about it and let the bitterness eat you alive from inside. That is DIFFICULT TO DO I know from experience. To the day he died, my husband never lost his bitterness about what they did but I have been able to let that bitterness go, thank goodness. It just takes time and work, hard work, though, and especially when someone has cheated a helpless individual that you love. It is like it is easier to get over I think an evil done to yourself than it is to get over an evil done to a loved one, especially a child or an elderly person.

My own psychopathic son is conning my egg donor (mother) who is and always has been an “enabler” of the family psychopaths.

I will keep you and your family in my prayers and thoughts! Only a few more days until she is sentenced.

Dalai Lama
Under certain circumstances, you may need to take steps to counteract someone else’s wrongdoing, but it’s better to do so without anger. That will be more effective, because when your mind is overwhelmed by a disturbing emotion like anger, the action you take may not be appropriate.

Doug:

Wow. What a horrible, messed up ordeal. I love it that you are pursuing them when they most likely thought you wouldn’t. Good for you!! It still blows me over the way they have acted by refusing to return anything they have or like you said to sell whatever they could and return the cash to you and your family.

Ox Drover – I hear you and my sister is telling me the same thing. She says it’s time for me to let go of this mess. But. While we have Saenger in jail we still have not recovered anything and I have four civil suits (and three counter suits from the Lumpkin family) pending. I know we are winning but it has not turned into anything real yet. So far I have 18 months of my life invested in the legal battle and until it gets to some kind of real resolution I cannot quit even if I wanted to. And after dealing the likes of the Haycrafts for almost two years I don’t want to quit.

Hi Doug,

I’ve been horrified reading your story, here and on your website. I am amazed and thrilled that you are actually getting somewhere with it, and hope you win your fight for justice. It is heartbreaking that the low life thought it was ok to take advantage of an elderly gentleman, who has worked hard all his life to provide for himself and his family. It also beggars belief that the one’s further down the food chain could justify keeping it when the truth came to light. Even if they thought she got by honest means (which I don’t believe for a second) a normal person would do the right thing and return it to its rightful owner.

In the U.K. it is against the law to receive stolen goods, whether it was known at the time or not, and I imagine the law is the same with you. When it becomes clear the proceeds have been acquired unlawfully, they have to be returned, ie if someone sells you a stolen car it is never yours and has to be returned whether you knew it was stolen or not.

Shortly after my Dad died (my Mum had passed away some years before him) a low life, bottom feeding, scumbag thought he was more entitled to my inheritance than I was, and proceeded to con me out of the lot. Although the sum total was nowhere near your loss, I can understand how you must feel to be going through this. It is somehow more of an injustice that the money belonged to our parents and not us.

Mine is gone, with no chance of it being returned, and I have been down every road trying to get justice. He was made bankrupt by someone else he owes money to, but the sequestrators have had no luck either. It is very difficult to come to terms with, but with time and the help of the wonderful people on this site I am getting there.

I wish you all the very best in your fight for justice for your Father, and please know that there are people here who not only know how you feel, but are behind you 100%.

Good luck!

Doug, I can’t imagine giving up after getting so far in recovering your father’s money. Maybe it’s more a matter that your sister is tired of the struggle, or perhaps she is so concerned for the toll this might be having on you that she just wants it all to go away. If it were me I would keep going until I couldn’t go on anymore.

one/joy_step_at_a_time

dnd – kick their asses. i read part of your blog and it’s like the soap opera that another dupe of my spath’s has been going through for several years now.

go until you no longer want to go. do it until YOU decide you have had enough. these people are evil and the more exposure they have the harder it is for them to scam people.

my spath got caught out on a new scam, because so much exists about her on the internet. i know who she REALLY is because so much about her exists on the internet. And now other people she scammed at the scam time a me also have that info (their choice as to whether or not they use it…and i suspect most of them didn’t. the lie was better than the truth.)

life – The phrasing varies a little but every state has a law against receiving stolen property. Its called Theft by Receiving and if you take stolen property when you ‘knew or should have known’ or ‘knew or had reason to know’ that it was stolen its a felony. The problem is the local prosecutor. In a case like this they just do not want to be bothered with it.

I do have one prosecutor that is at least willing to talk to me about it.

Thank goodness you have one person who is prepared to stick their neck out for you! We have a similar situation here, the sequestrator in my case says there are no assets to seize and it would cost more to prosecute him than they could recover. The police say technically, I gave it willingly(?), so it’s not fraud! He skips off scot free to scam another trusting person. I’ve never hated anyone before, but now I know that emotion.
I totally understand why you can’t give up, there is still a tiny bit of me that would like to believe i’ll get something someday. However, for the moment I have to be content with the fact that he lives a miserable life. From what I here, he is living in his van, as his most recent victim threw him out on the street! 🙂

Doug

Contact Mike Masterson at the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette in LITTLE ROCK, AR. Mike is the editor of the comments and is a champion of a couple of VICTIM FAMILIES….I Think MIKE might be the one to take an interest in your case. It is the kind of case he has followed in the past.

With her coming up for Sentencing THIS WEEK and the on going case for recovering the money, Mike might be able to publish something about it. Good luck.

Ox Drover

I’ll give him a call on Monday. Having a personal contact helps a lot.

Mara Leveritt who did the story in the Arkansas Times is a neighbor of one of the people I talked to when I was in Helena AR for court back in April.

When I hit somebody with this story cold I know I sound like a world class nut case. Its just too bizarre to be real. But it has been suggested half a dozen times that maybe the way we can recover something is a made-for-TV movie.

Dear Doug,

My own story is just as “fictional sounding” and even my new therapist (several years ago now) asked me to bring in a witness that I was not a paranoid nut job. This past year I hired an attorney in another state (by telephone) to represent me at my son’s upcoming parole hearing (AGAINST the parole) and the attorney listened politely but I could tell he didn’t believe a word I said, until I sent him a foot-locker full of documents and he called me back and said “My, your son REALLY IS A BAD MAN, Isn’t he?” I just laughed and told him it didn’t offend me that he hadn’t believed me until he had seen the evidence. My story, like yours, sounds UNBELIEVABLE TO THE MAX!

I would suggest that you get Mike to read the story that Mara Leverit wrote. I think she did a GREAT JOB actually.

I’ve read Mike’s writings for years and I think he is a fair minded and sharp man. Maybe he would help you, and since the sentencing is coming up it would be TIMELY to write about it now.

Here’s another article about a grifter woman, whose name is “Godsgift” (no fooling!) and she got 16 months for the con–wonder how many DAYS she will serve with a sentence of 16 months?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2044446/Bigamist-fleeced-husband-26-years-senior-200-000-married-jailed.html

There must be a school somewhere that teaches this.

In the first conversation our PI had with Saenger she said her current husband was really her great uncle. When Saenger was meeting my dad she was telling her neighbors that she was going to meet her great uncle Norm.

A lot of money went to commercial property in Little Rock and farmland in Tennessee. A little different spin but the same lies.

dnd,
I know, we have all said this, “Did they all graduate from the same U of Spath?”

While it’s true that much of it is just a result of their infantile mentality, they also teach each other when the opportunity arises. Spaths live in a hell of their own making, but they don’t want to live there alone. They try to entice others to do evil too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Fx2aYQbQs&feature=related

The enticement only works on “people” who already have the propensity towards evil.

My ex-spath is like the Tony Robbins of spaths. He finds loser meth-heads and teaches them to become “successful” spaths. My Brother in law, was just a loser methhead when he met the spath. Now he works for homeland security and is married to my sister, used her credit to graduate from law school. And is underwater on 2 houses.

It gets sicker the more you know.

Edit:
yes, I did tell my sister that her husband is a trojan horse, inserted by my spath, but she is a spath too and she doesn’t believe me.

My mom is a spath, so spathticity seems normal to my spath sister.

I don’t mean to scare you. You should continue to fight for what’s right, I’m only letting you in on the truth of what is out there, because knowledge is power.

None of it is any surprise to me. The Lumpkin Family that I am dealing with:

Shea Sanger aka Sharon Lumpkin – Murderer, con artist, thief. I am also told that when shew was young she ran the local drug/prostitution ring

Bo (Lumpkin) Parker – Alleged embezzler

Shannon Wiggins (Bo’s daughter) – Embezzler, on probation for theft and forgery (and works for Hazen AR Police Dept)

Chris Haycraft (a nephew) – used to be jailer, fired after beating a man and hospitalizing him for two days.

Mark Lumpkin of Elaine AR – Don’t know about him but I am told ‘well you can get away with a lot in Elaine’

This gene pool needed a massive dose of chlorine a generation back.

Doug,

I live in the same little rural community where my family has lived since 1833 (though I took 30 years out and traveled the world and US) but I have pretty much a LONG social history on every family here, including my own, and you see whole families like the NEST OF VIPERS your dad got mixed up with, and then you see families who are honest, upstanding, hardworking folks who have one psychopath which just “pops out of the woodwork” to the great shame of the entire family. My family, for the most part, were good folks, but my family of origin had some “secret monsters” who did their drinking, wife beating, etc. behind closed doors while parking their butts on the front pew in church every Sunday and singing the loudest!

Now that I have finally had the “Scales fall from my eyes” about psychopathy, I’ve cut off contact with not only the psychopaths, but with those family members that ENABLE them to continue with their behavior and protect them at all costs from the consequences of their behavior.

Living in an area where I at least over all KNOW WHO IN THE COMMUNITY is a thief I can protect myself somewhat by avoiding doing business with those people. Your father, though, having lost his judgment was not so fortunate.

I am a retired registered nurse practitioner, and I have been doing some research on signs and symptoms of EARLY dementia and senility, and one of the FIRST signs of it is the inability to detect obvious lies or sarcasm. In other words, they lose their judgment which is why scam and con artists are so easily able to prey on the elderly for “repaving” their drive ways, or some other “home improvement” scheme, or the “send me money and I’ll send you your bank draft for $30 million” I have an elderly neighbor right now who is in the clutches of a con man in Haiti and also a meth-ho he met in a parking lot. She shows up every 1st of the month when his “check:” comes and drinks and drugs it up, leaving him penniless until the next month, but he is convinced he is “in love” with her and is going to “cure” her alcoholism, and he keeps sending money to the guy in Haiti because he KNOWS he is going to be rich, it isn’t a scam, we just don’t want him to be rich.

He has even taken to sort of scamming the neighbors himself to get gasoline or money for cigarettes for her (he doesn’t smoke) but will beg the neighbors for a few dollars or a couple of gallons of gasoline. Most of us have gotten on to the scam now, and we keep in touch with his daughter (who he won’t let help him because she doesn’t like his girlfriend!~) [Read: won’t give him money for the woman’s booze and smokes] but we all try to see he has food and water when the woman is gone, but won’t go near there when the woman is there. It is a shame, he was a good friend and a good neighbor, but he is NOT yet “out of it” enough that he can be cared for legally. SELF neglect is not a crime if they know who the president is and the month, and year and their own name.

My own egg donor (mother) supports my psychopathic son who even from his prison cell (for murder) tried to have me murdered. She is also not “out of it” enough for me to do anything legally either, so like my neighbor’s daughter, I too am “hog tied” and unable to do a thing except protect myself FROM her as well as from my P-son.

I hope you got to speak with Mike Masterson, if not send him a link to the story in the Arkansas Times. That was a really good story. If nothing else, Doug, you are NOT alone in this situation and at least your father’s SAFETY is not in question at this point. Sometimes I think that senility is a BENEFIT to the elderly as they don’t remember the horrible things that have happened or the losses they have experienced. The deceased spouse they loved is still “alive” in their minds, etc. God bless you and I wish you every success on the 14th.

I sent an email to Mike Masterson and put in the links to Mara Leveritt’s stories. I also updated him on the more recent events in the case, eh things that have happened since Mara’s stories came out.
He has my email address and phone numbers so we will just for now.

All that you describe about the loss of judgement fits my dad to a tee. Instead of deleting the emails about the lottery, lost fortune, whatever some years back he started replying to them all. He never got hooked for any money on those which was just luck. Same with Saenger, he just couldn’t tell that what she kept saying and doing did not track. And Saenger kept him all the time about not telling anyone (especially family) about their ‘business’ so dad never said a word.

Doug,

Back before I retired, I worked in a “geri-psych” unit at a large hospital in Little Rock…we mainly dealt with the families of these patients who were doing things that were self neglect or problematic and many of the patients were not far enough “gone” that we could do anything with them if they were not cooperative. So getting them to cooperate with us and with family was sometimes very difficult.

I actually ended up taking my egg donor to court to try to get a guardianship because she had a 3 x convicted sexual offender ex convict installed in her house as her “live in care giver” and he had convinced her that I was out to get her money. He also had her drugged. The small town jungle telegraph though, got word to her before the court date, so she had a lawyer waiting for me…the judge threw the man out of her house, but would not give me a guardianship because my other son and his P-wife were siding with the child molester ex-con (My DIL was having an affair with him as well) Several months later and $24,000 later, my DIL and the Trojan Horse were caught when they tried to kill my son (her husband) and were not successful. They went to jail/prison for a few months and my son C divorced her and we got most of my egg donor’s money back….along with a box of evidence from the man’s room in my egg donor’s home, letters from my P son telling them how to manage my egg donor and get rid of me…for about a year she was NC with my P son, but now she is sending him money for the last 3 years, as well as INFORMATION. He has convinced her that we are persecuting him and that I am insane as well as mean. My cousin is her POA now and he is also an enabler so there isn’t anything I can do at this point except protect myself from my son Patrick and try to keep him in prison. I was successful in that effort the last time he came up for parole, but in 2 years when he goes back to the parole board (with my egg donor hiring him an attorney to plead for his release since he has “found Jesus”) he may actually get out. Though his murder/crime was premeditated, cold blooded, put the gun to the girl’s head and pull the trigger and I have letters with him BRAGGING about how it was “worse than the cops knew”—he will have been in 22-3 years or so and that is about all the time they get now for cold blooded murder these days unless it is a cop killing.

When your psychopath gets out, I hope you are paranoid, because YOU have put her in prison (it is ALL YOUR FAULT) so she will want to GET EVEN. She has already killed one person, so what is another one or two….or burning your house?

Recently in Arkansas a physician who was in trouble with the medical board for drugs BOMBED the head of the medical board and almost killed him, the man lost an eye and was horribly injured. So it pays to be paranoid for sure!

I no longer live in TERROR (I did live in terror for a while) but I AM CAUTIOUS at all times. I hate to live in an armed camp, but I do, and if my son gets out of prison, or gets any significant money from my egg donor’s estate (he probably will) then I will have to leave here and go “underground” again. At one time that was a Big deal for me, and I grieved over that, but I’m past that point now and realize that “home” is not a piece of dirt, or a pile of lumber and stones, it is INSIDE ME. The last 4 years since the P DIL and the Trojan Horse psychopath went to prison has been a LONG 4 years, but I have learned so much, not only about psychopaths, but about myself, about life and what is REALLY important in this world.

I think you have done a great job in at least getting her prosecuted, and I do hope you can get some financial justice, but at the same time, I am learning that even if no one else in the world believes us, we can VALIDATE ourselves and the “losses” we suffer financially are not the end of the world, no matter how big they are. Even if we never get any “justice” legally or financially, just holding our heads up high is its own reward, and I can look my God in the face and myself in the mirror. That’s the really important part! God bless.

I am not quite paranoid but I am a lot more careful these days. And while it makes pursuing the civil cases more difficult I am really glad that we live 2500 miles the Lumpkins. Haycrafts, Parkers and Wiggins. I told our county prosecutor here that I didn’t think I would have the nerve to do this if we were close.

The money has never been important other than its what we need to pay for dad’s care. The Lumpkin family keeps harping on me just being mad because I am not getting dad’s money. Never counted on getting any of it anyway.

Mostly its just about right and wrong. That is what really upsets me about the county prosecutors. I grew up with the idea that law enforcement existed to enforce laws and to help you if some one was hurting you. It was an ugly lesson but now our family knows that’s not true. The prosecutors in particular are not concerned with right and wrong. They only care about what is easy to do.

DnD,

As much as I’m sorry for what happened to your family, I’m so glad that another person gets it.

You obviously DO get it, when you say, “I grew up with the idea that law enforcement existed to enforce laws and to help you if some one was hurting you. It was an ugly lesson but now our family knows that’s not true. The prosecutors in particular are not concerned with right and wrong. They only care about what is easy to do.”

It’s hypocrisy of the type Jesus preached about, when leaders wearing the mantle of authority show us that there is no depth or conviction in their positions. There is only self-serving, power-plays.

To be honest, I think I hate these hypocrits more than I hate the con-artist spaths because these hypocrits are fooling more of the people, more of the time. They feed at the public trough, like the pigs that they are, year after year after year. And they go about in public with a self-satisfied smug look, when in fact they are no better than the remorseless con-artist.

Doug, what amazed me when I found out about it is that the prosecutor is the one who decides IF a crime is prosecuted, and HOW it is prosecuted. So in theory if his brother was caught on video tape killing someone and the DA refused to prosecute, there would be nothing could be done on a state level, and since in general murder is not a federal crime, the guy could go scot free.

I learned this years ago when our local sheriff, who was a powerful man, had sex with 3 teenage run-aways that were in our local jail. There were even photographs of them naked on his lap with bottles of booze in their hands..(I saw these pictures myself) but because NO prosecutor would prosecute him, they brought in the Feds but the only “crime” they could charge him with was “violating their constitutional rights by having sex with them” (Nah, that was not what he did, it was pedophilia, sex with someone who was not able to with hold or give consent) so anyway the jury who also saw the photographs did not convict of “constitutional rights violation” but until that time I figured that if a crime was committed the DA HAD TO PROSECUTE…but now I know that is not so. They decide what Crime to prosecute for as well…since there are various levels of Killing from capitol murder to manslaughter and levels in between, the DA has SO MUCH power in their hands and little restraint or oversight to control the use of that power or not use it as the case may be.

At the time I see what is wrong with our system, I also do NOT see a better way to control abuse of that system either. I wish I did have an answer to the problem. Unlike when I was a teenager and thought I knew the answers to all the questions like this, now I realize I don’t even know all of the questions, much less ANY of the answers. LOL

About a year ago I had some conversations with a very nice lady in the the Washington State Attorney General’s office. I had contacted them because of the multiple jurisdictions that were involved just in Washington. I had some hope that they could offer assistance to the counties but that never happened. My second hope was that there would just be a phone call from the AGO to the local people asking ‘How’s it going?’ I thought some interest from the state might prompt the locals to move. As far I know that never happened either.

In our last call the lady told that me that maybe what I needed to do was go to the press. It’s pretty said when the State Attorney General is telling you that to get the county to do its job you have to embarrass them in the newspaper, essentially shame them into it. Even that did not work. Once the Feds took some action (make no mistake, I am very grateful for that) the local people just quit. The prosecutors office here did not even have the courtesy to tell me that. They pushed that job off on a Sheriff’s deputy.

Anyway, that is one reason why I have pushed to get news media coverage of the story. At the least it has a few people in state government watching to see how it turns out.

Another reason is no matter how our civil cases turn out, people need to know about this family and what they have done. That’s why I really want some coverage in Arkansas where they live. And/or something like 20/20 or Dateline. The newspapers in Hazen and Helena where the Wiggins and Lumpkins live hardly qualify for the name.

The answer, Oxy, is the media. Those pictures should have made the front page of the local papers. With appropriate blurring, of course.

That story sickens me so much.

You many not know this but the millenium series books (the girl with the dragon tattoo) written by Steig Larson, are fictional stories but they address the very topics we discuss on LF: abuse and corruption of power and the abuse of women and children.

The first book was originally titled, “Men Who Hate Women”

Larson was also targeted by rightwing extremists for many years because he was so outspoken about racism and sexism. I personally think his death at such a young age was not due to natural causes. Spaths are very good at making murder look like it was natural or accidental.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennium_series

Sky,

Well, the problem with the media (only) exposure is that these people HAVE NO SHAME. Psychopaths do not feel the kind of shame that you or I would feel if our bad deeds were exposed on the front page.

While the “people of the mask” like my egg donor and yours DO care about exposure, it doesn’t stop them. Also Dickie Ray Chance, the pedophile preacher who was arrested in the internet sting when he sent pictures of his “junk” to what he THOUGHT was a 14 year old girl, but was actually a 40 year old Marion County, Arkansas, deputy sheriff, has sent a letter, I heard, to the church “apologizing” and “repenting” for what he did, so the nice church people have “forgiven” him and now he will trade on a “SAVED SINNER” mask just as he assisted the Trojan Horse Psychopath to “praise Jesus, I’m saved” while he was having an affair with my now X DIL and planning on killing her husband, my son C and me.

While I think that finding faith in God can change the lives and behavior of SOME people, but psychopaths use the “message” of churches and religion to MASK the past behavior and con the people who are believers into accepting them and RESTORING TRUST to them….in other words, giving them ANOTHER CHANCE to continue their behavior.

Studies of convicted “first time” sexual offenders show that the AVERAGE number of OFFENSES these people did BEFORE being caught the “first time” was between 110 and 300. So again, the BEST indicator of future behavior is PAST BEHAVIOR, so it is not WISE to restore TRUST to anyone who has a record of PAST BAD BEHAVIOR, without thoroughly vetting them.

Taking someone at their “word” that they have “repented” is not wise I don’t think. It is OBSERVING ACTIONS as well as words that tell the entire story.

As much as I know that enabling someone is wrong, just as Mel’s article today pointed out, because it is a PAST LIFE TIME PATTERN WITH ME, I fall into that pattern naturally unless I work hard EVERY DAY to fight against it. Though my “repentance” of that behavior is GENUINE, and I am working hard at it, I don’t even TRUST MYSELF not to fall into that pattern so I continually monitor my own thinking and behavior to correct it when I fall back into that pattern.

I think the point of media exposure is not to shame the them although there might be a little of that. It’s to shame the local authorities into actually doing something. If its public enough and enough people are outraged by it it’s much more likely that there will be a prosecution. And prosecution or not it makes their actions public knowledge so its harder for them to do it again.

skylar:

The movie “The Girl with the Dragon Tatoo” comes out on 12/21/11. I can’t wait…here is a trailer. It stars my favorite…Daniel Craig. He is perfect for the part I am sure.

http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/the-girl-with-the-dragon-tattoo/trailer

I didn’t read these books and didn’t know anything about it, but I went to see a movie a few weeks ago and they showed this preview. Now I am very intrigued especially after what you have said above.

Louise- it is VERY interesting… All 3 of them. They are out already and have been. I heard Hollywood was doing a remake. The original is in Swedish but it is not only subtitled but the DVDs can change to English. If you are eager… Check them out! They are very disturbing… I’m sure the originals are better than the Hollywood remakes. They normally are.

Word of caution… They are very disturbing!! And have many triggers!! I’m sure Hollywood will tone it down.. Swedish films allow more truth!

coping:

I didn’t know the films were already out; I thought it was only the books. Do you suggest I read the books first?

Don’t worry about the disturbing part. I actually love movies like this. I know I will probably be triggered, but I can handle it (I think!).

According to the link Skylar sent out, the first movie comes out in December and the second one in 2012 and the third one in 2013. I don’t know if I want to check them out now or wait for the remakes. Maybe I’ll read the books first and then watch the remakes.

No all 3 originals are out already. I saw the first one around a year and a half ago.. Than the next 2. They were so popular in Europe and Sweden Hollywood is doing remakes.. Or so that was the rumor. I guess it true. I have not read the books.. Only have seen the movies. Again they are in Swedish… But if you don’t like subtitles just change the language on the DVDs. I can’t imagine Hollywood will do a good job. Im sure they will make everyone beautiful with lots of glitter and glam. It’s like what they did to the French film le femme Nikita! IDE recommend seeing the Swedish versions.. They are very powerful… And real! They are all out and have been for ages. If nothing else rent the originals and you can see the Hollywood versions once they are released. Lol.. I bet they will be very different!!

You can get them at blockbuster if you are in the us…

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