21 Days NC – Is he a N/S/P?

spooky – yes the guy is disordered – probably either antisocial or narcissistic, or both. (I call them all sociopaths for convenience). Everything you describe is right out of the sociopath play book.

I am glad you are away from him. Maintain No Contact. That’s how your head will start to clear.

I hope you are no longer seeing that therapist. She obviously did not recognize what you were dealing with.

snowgirl- It is a shock to encounter a psychopath but now that you are aware you can spot and avoid them.

SG

• This reply was modified 5 years, 1 month ago by Sunnygal.

Spooky,

Nothing good can come of any contact you could have moving forward. Any contact will just result in more deception and manipulation. And now that you have threatened him with contacting authorities, believe me, he would amp up his abuse to REALLY hurt you, just to pay you back for having firm boundaries.

Let him go. Focus on sleep, friends, good nutrition, and getting in some exercise. Read what you can here, in the archives. It is helpful to keep reminding yourself about WHAT he truly is (disordered), how he behaves (deceptively), and that you did nothing to deserve his treatment.

I just finished a book called Talking with Strangers that dives into why it is so difficult to understand a stranger, and how getting close to some people, so that we can understand them, is sometimes the worst thing to do.

According to this book we assume 2 things, and get a 3rd incorrect. The first assumption is that people are transparent, that their expressions and body language accurately reflect what they are feeling and thinking. We know that sociopaths are MISMATCHED in this area. Their feelings and intentions ARE NOT matched to their facial expressions and body language, because they are lying.

Secondly, we defer to the truth. We believe that most other people also defer to the truth. And, in fact, this is good for us to do, because it creates social cohesion and cooperation. If we were suspicious of everyone, nothing would be accomplished. However, when it comes to deceiver’s, deferring to the truth puts us at a disadvantage.

Then the author goes on to talk about how we cannot put strangers into context. We cannot know, like you couldn’t with his stories about his ex’s, what the REAL context of his behavior was within his world. BECAUSE he was lying about the context, and you couldn’t get the other side of the story.

So, what do we do? WE LISTEN TO OUR GUT. We watch closely and pay attention to how a situation, and word, an interaction makes US FEEL. Do we feel slightly uncomfortable? Are we a little nervous, confused, perplexed, unsettled? Does something just feel off? Not all the time, but maybe intermittently? Are the words and actions mismatched?

This information is provided to us via our very FAST brains, who before even any facts are known, can inform us of danger. These feelings, these ‘spidey senses’, are what tell us to go no further and to back away and stay away.

I was treated VERY sweetly at first, and I still had a feeling something was off. I felt overwhelmed by all the emails, visits, gifts, and attention. I WANTED it, but I had a niggling feeling that it was kind of weird. It felt a bit awkward and nerve wracking.

The reason it is important to listen to these ‘intuitions’, and go no further, is because once we spend too much time with these sorts the contact (both physical and emotional) begin to work on our hormones and such to create a BOND with them, a bond they ARE NOT forming with us. We begin, then, in earnest to over look irrational behavior, lies, and outbursts, because now we are ‘in love’. It’s good NOT to fall in love with someone who is subtly pushing our buttons from the minute we meet them.

I hope this helps some. Keep reading. Stay away from him.

Slim

Hi snow girl –
Here is my take on what you’ve gone through: First of all, I must commend you because you did everything just perfectly. All the steps you took were correct and you were strong going through all the revelations as you came to understand who your ex really was. As you know it has been discovered that these character disordered ones go through definite steps. It is my opinion that different steps can be more engaging to keep victims stuck than others, depending upon their personal vulnerabilities. And each of us do have our own issues that we need to learn and grow about. In any case, it seems to me that the love bomb stage is the one that caused you the most difficulty. I think it is ( I don’t mean to be judge mental here – just trying to get to some clarity ) that you have a sweet and romantic nature and this is what got taken advantage of. When the meanness stage arrived you were able to act in a self protective manner which was wonderful. But what you are going through now is that the sweet part of you was so deeply hurt, and that is why it is so difficult to reconcile the kind/mean dichotomy that you were put through. So at this point instead of trying to understand how some people can be so horrific ( and it really is such a difficult concept to get ), I think the best thing for you is to concentrate on nurturing and loving that part of you that is so sweet. Do everything you can to surround yourself with love and find a book with affirmations that address kindness and love for yourself.
Blessings

Hi showgirl –
I was thinking more about your situation, and it occurred to me that the pattern that you were put through is the same ( or very similar ) to the pattern that “ Hurt “ in her post in the forum called “ Broken “ has been going through. The pattern that I have noticed is this : the main character dysfunctional pattern that usually occurs ( as you know ) is the 1. Idealize ( with all the love bombing etc ) 2. Devalue ( in which the “victim “ – not sure what to call the receiver of emotional abuse while it is occurring – but they so often get so demoralized and downtrodden that they loose clarity and self esteem. 3. Discard – they get “ trashed “ and the emotional devastation is horrific. But in some cases, the pattern does not proceed as planned ( like in your case ). Instead, in the Devalue stage, the victim has enough self esteem and energy that she is able to stand up for herself. Wowwww – the emotional abuser is not ready for that! They go into a huge rage, after all so they think – how dare the sweet little victim talk back to them ( either by word or action )! Some people call it “ calling them out “. What ensues is “ Narcissistic Offense “. They are just off the wall in anger and the desire for revenge and they will do whatever dirty fighting that they can overtly or covertly to cause as much pain all at once. So what you are going through is not only the sadness and disillusionment of your ex’s dramatically changed behavior, but a terrible attack. He knows you well enough to know what would hurt the most. I am sorry that you have endured cruelty. The best thing to do is to continue to do all that you are for your healing. You have such a sweet heart that it will be protected in the core of your love. I was thinking that it might be helpful for you to check out “ Hurts” posts. There are many underlying issues with both of your ex’s. You were both incredibly strong and I so admire both of you. I’m going to post her too about your posts.
Blessings to you.

PS – not “ Showgirl “ ! ( unless you’ve been in Les Miserables ) – I mean snow girl. Sorry about the typo.
Blessings

snowgirl- Glad you are feeling better. That is great news!!

SG

Hi snowgirl –
You do sound like you are doing so well! Great billboard. I have a little gift for you: It is a song and it is very heart healing because it is sung by a guy who “ gets it “. He gets what he did wrong and has respect and love for the woman who told him “ no more “. I love the song because the abusers we meet up with never apologize and instead place all their blame on the one who they abused. So listening to this song gives love and validation and appreciation to the woman. I think it is a healing song – it’s by R. Kelly on his CD 2 set “ R. “ and the song is called “ When a woman’s fed up “. If you have iTunes ( or a similar venue ) you can get the individual song.
Blessings

Hi snowgirl –
A few thoughts I have about your questions – what he did ( which is typical ) is to use “ intermittent reinforcement “ in which the abuser will do something so so nice and loving and then for no rhyme or reason come up with something hateful. Then your mind starts to work and work to figure out what you did wrong to cause this sudden change. This is a technique that is also used to keep you hooked because you begin to focus more and more on them and the drama they create. This keeps you hooked quite nicely and it also weakens you tremendously because you are no longer in your personal center of strength – you have become off balanced by putting your attention and energy on their incomprehensible drama ( the only way the mind can get it – understand it, is by acknowledging the concept of psychological abuse ). In any case, every once in awhile, you regain that clarity of your true self and center and will then call them on their unkindness and their unacceptable behavior. Then wham – out comes their apology. Now my theory, now that you have pointed out this apology issue ( very insightful of you by the way ) is that it is a kind of “ hoover “ , a kind of mini love bomb to keep you hooked and involved with them. But if you fall for it then you will be right back into their web of abuse and crazy making behavior. Granted – some Hoovers are horribly mean, but I think that kind happens when the victim is totally out the door in one way or the other and that is the abusers way of dishing out much pain or to try to convince the victim that they are a horrible person and all was their fault and thus to get them to beg forgiveness and get back under their thumb or if they do escape it is to inflict as much suffering as possible. But back to you – if your ex is by any means able to get an apology through to you, he just thinks there is a chance to reuptake the relationship. So those apologies were part of the intermittent reinforcement as well ( the “ nice “ part ). I’m not clear if your No Contact is allowing him to get messages to you or if you were just giving examples of his so called apologies from before the No Contact. But either way, I would not trust him. Oh, I am reading a book and the author writes about a technique whereby you write down a list of all the hurtful things your ex did – then choose 5 items that seem to be the most significant and put them on a card. When the flashbacks of the intermittent reinforcement come up and confuse you then read your card and that will bring back clarity of who the abuser really is.
Blessings to you.

Hi snowgirl –
The book is called “ the five step exit “ by a Amber Ault. I like it so much because it takes you through No Contact and then steps about getting your life back. It is short and readable and extremely practically useful so that you might find it helpful too. I also wanted to say that I was thinking more about the apology issue. I’m so glad that you brought it up because it is very important. Some other ideas I came up with was that psychological abuse covers a large spectrum – from very subtle and covert to extremely blatant and overt. The apologizing is really a sneaky move, I must say. But it can also be categorized on the overt end because when you think about domestic abuse and the “ cycle of violence “, the last step before it all starts again is the abuser crying and apologizing and being ever so remorseful. The victim believes him and they have their honeymoon phase and then it all cycles again. In any case, I am completely impressed by how strongly you told your ex to keep away from you. Good for you!
Blessings

Hi, Snowgirl.

I read your post. I’m SO sorry you experienced such a difficult and painful relationship with a man who clearly has issues with himself. His illogical thinking is enough to confuse anyone. Trust me, you’re not the crazy one. If anything, you saw through the “crazy” and made him responsible for his abusive behavior. That’s a wonderful set of boundaries/limits you have. I wish I had a set of my own. (I’m working on it.)

One of the hardest parts about their “illogical” thinking is how easily they can easily switch from being your “soul-mate” to being your worst nightmare. They run “hot and cold” with their behavior. There is no consistency about them, except they follow the traditional –“Love Bomb, Idealization, Devaluation, and Discard” stages. As Polestar explained –they can vary in degrees and they can switch back and forth through these stages, but they always end the same way –“Discard.” Whether you walk away from him, or he walks away from you –it always ends with confusion, shock and disbelief. Sometimes you doubt yourself –am I crazy?

Because he presented himself as being attentive, loving, thoughtful, kind, open, and honest (in the beginning), it’s only natural you’d begin to open your heart, your trust and your love to him. That’s what a normal, loving, healthy relationship looks like, except you didn’t know –he was anything, but normal, loving, or healthy. And, that’s okay. You’re the normal one. He wasn’t.

It sounds like he was emotionally unstable, unable to commit and/or keep his promises to you and lacked emotional maturity. It also sounds like he wanted his “cake and eat it, too.” Why start a relationship with you, if he continued to return to his “ex” –and worse, he was with one “other woman” during this experience. Clearly, he was using a narcissistic trait called –triangulation, especially between you and his “ex.” It’s a cruel tactic that excites and fuels a narcissist.

You wrote: “It was such a shock to have this man who proclaimed to be my soulmate and who told my friends he want to earn the right to marry me and who had begged for me to come see him and not give up on our relationship to literally flip to telling me I was a mean, evil person and he was focused on his wife and their kids and not to ever contact them again. It was completely crazy behavior.”

You’re absolutely right; that is crazy behavior. Narcissists are all about “crazy-making,” illogical thinking. They can switch from one extreme emotion to another —without consideration to your emotional well being. In fact, I’ve been told/and read –that illogical thinking not only confuses you mentally and psychologically, but it also imbalances you chemically. When they “love bomb” you, you receive large amounts of “happy” hormones, like Oxytocin, Serotonin and Endorphins. Because “love” is a powerful emotion, it’s easy to feel like you’re on “cloud 9.” It’s also the reason you bond so intimately with your partner. But when the same person who can create large amounts of “happy” hormones —is the same person who can triangulate, manipulate, control, confuse, and anger you, your body responds with “stress” hormones, like Adrenaline and Cortisol–your “Flight or Fight” mode is activated. You now have two sets of conflicting –emotions and hormones in a state of confusion. It’s called –cognitive dissonance. Essentially, your heart (happy) and your mind (stress) are not communicating with each other. It’s another classic narcissistic tactic to keep you bonded to them.

I agree with Donna. I’m glad you’re no longer seeing your therapist. It’s important you find someone who has experience with toxic/narcissistic/ sociopaths/ Cluster B personality disorders/ etc. –to provide you the care you need.

I also agree with everyone, going No Contact –is the best way to heal through this experience. I’m in my third month of No Contact and it hasn’t been easy, but it’s the only way. Going No Contact provides you a way to “detox” from their manipulative, controlling and destructive behavior. It also provides you a place to educate, heal, understand, and grow from what has happened. It sounds like you’re already well on your way.

This is a great community. Everyone has a story. Thank you for sharing yours.

Hi, Snowgirl–

I admire your strength and your courage. Facing what has happened to you is not an easy task. You’re right; it’s tough. Like you said –you’re going to have good days and bad days. You’re also going to have happy and sad ones, too.

If you feel like crying, cry. If you feel mad, be mad. If you feel pensive, be pensive. Whatever you feel, allow yourself to feel the emotion(s). You’ve been through a lot. Your body, mind and spirit have all been affected. And, it’s important to be kind to yourself, especially in times likes these.

I love this quote from Jackson Mackenzie (‘Psychopath Free’). I also shared it with Polestar.

“You were manipulated, insulated, degraded, belittled, and neglected. Full responsibility for this goes to the psychopath. It does not matter it you were vulnerable or insecure -no decent human being should ever take advantage of another. None of this was your fault.”

That’s understandable; if my “ex” told me he was a “sociopath,” I would have taken it as an exaggeration, too. You’re (very) fortunate he disclosed as much as he did with you from the beginning. Many victims never know who their abuser is until after the relationship. You’re also fortunate you knew what medication he was taking. My “ex” was taking anxiety medication, too, but I never knew the name of it. Two years into our relationship, he slowly took himself off of it, until one day –he stopped taking it. Unfortunately, I’ll never know if it benefited him, or “us” to be off of it. Something always “triggered” him and his behavior was always “hot and cold.”

I also understand, it’s maddening that someone could put you and everyone involved on his rollercoaster ride of emotional and psychological abuse. It wasn’t fair to all of you –to experience the drama associated with his abuse, as well.

I have the same problem. My “ex” and I live in the same city. The chances of running into each other are also good. I literally scan ahead (while I’m driving) to see if he’s in view. I still have no idea what I would do—if I did see him. I’m worried, my emotions will overwhelm me and derail all my hard work in NC. But, I must confess –I saw him once. I don’t think he saw me. I won’t lie, it scared and it made me happy. I was happy because I still care about him, but it scared me because he wasn’t the man I fell in love with. This man was cold, empty and devoid of emotion. He almost looked mad or angry. It was like looking at a stranger. I’m told –this is him without his “mask” on. Whatever you choose, just remember — this was not your fault. Be kind to yourself.

You made a big sacrifice to move to be closer to him. I’m sorry it’s taken you away from your support group. I’m also sorry you don’t like the area. It’ll be a challenge, but it’s important to stay close to your support group, or community forums (like this). It’s important to surround yourself with people who understand what you’re going through. That’s wonderful news! I’m glad you found someone to talk to and you’re finding ways to stay busy. Isolation was my “ex’s” favorite tactic. I think if I had someone to talk to (and trusted), I might have removed myself sooner from our relationship. Worse, when he “discarded” me —I wouldn’t have been alone, scared, confused, and angry.

I still have my good and bad days. I think we all do. It’s not an easy task to process everything we’ve been through, but as long as we continue to “power through it” —we’ll be in a better place. 🙂

Hi snowgirl –
Remember how I shared about a song with you ? I liked it so much because it was a guy apologizing. Then you brought up the issue about abusive apologizing – that was an awakening for me because my experience had always been utter denial about abuse. Anyway, I thought of something funny – maybe the song was actually a big “ Hoover “ ! Anyway, I have been reading your posts and you sound like you’ve got a protective plan in place and that is exactly what is needed. Also, I am glad that you and hurt have been so supportive of one another. Both of your energies together as well as everyone on this site acts as a barrier and a protective shield and support. It is heart warming to see and feel so much goodness concentrated here.
Blessings.

snowgirl- You might also get the book Women Who Love Psychoaths by therapist Sandra Brown at saferelationshipsmagazine.com. It is equally about the sychopath and is excellent.

SG

Hi snowgirl –
I am so very glad that you shared what you have been going through with your friends. And that they were able to give you love and support. That is what a true friend is – someone who can understand and empathize and who you can really share with and feel safe by doing so. Plus the friend who had gone through something similar was able to receive kindness and care from you too. Your plans that you have in place show that you are totally dedicated to your new life of joy and peace. Plus I must congratulate you on 35 !!!
Blessings to you.

Hi, Snowgirl-

That’s great! –I’ve found reading material about my “ex” to be extremely educational. It also helps clarify any confusion you might have regarding his behavior and his traits. It’ll also help you understand their pathology and illogical thinking, like returning to his “wife and kids” after hoovering you.

You wrote: “I’m at this weird place where I go from being sad, to angry, to numb, to happy and then back again. One of my friends introduced me to a guy she works with at work who seems nice and I enjoy talking to him but all I can see are red flags. I have a feeling it will be like this for quite awhile and I’m in no rush to be in a relationship again. I’m trying to figure out what’s next and also trying not to stress about being close to my ex and away from my friends, starting a new job in a new place with new people.”

I can honestly say –transitioning from one set of emotions to the next is not easy and it’s not fun. It’s physically exhausting and frustrating all at the same time. But, it sounds like you’re handling this well. If you can see “red flags” from your conversations with a new guy, you’re not likely going to experience the kind of pain you had with your “ex.” Your instincts are keeping you safe and you’re right; it’s good to not be “in a rush to be in a relationship again.” This is a good time for you to heal and recover from your experience.

Congratulations! –32 days of NC. It’s not easy, but it’ll get easier as time passes. After this week –I’ll be in my fourth month of NC. I still have emotional “triggers,” but I keep grounding myself in reality, so I don’t confuse them with my “fantasy” memories. The memories that were built on lies. Getting rid of reminders was a great decision. I’ve boxed mine up.

You’re surrounding yourself with a good support group and making healthy decisions to better yourself and your well being. Your “ex” may reach out to you again. Be prepared when he does. It sounds like you are already. Keep up the great work, snowgirl! You’re doing great!

Hi snowgirl –
I hope you are doing well. I was thinking of an idea you may or may not want to do – and either way is totally fine. But I was thinking that a nice way that you could keep contact with the Love Fraud site is to check out the post stream that I started called “ This is for all our wonderful participants “. You can find it in the Forum section towards the top or in the general community section. Anyway, I created a space where people could share quotes that have been especially helpful to them, or have inspired them or that they love. Donna and a bunch of participants have shared, and Sunny Girl has shared many really good quotes. So if you would want to you might like to check it out. If you share just once and check the little box at the bottom of your post, then you would receive wonderful quotes in your inbox that you might like. (I’m not sure if you could just check the little box at the bottom without posting a quote to receive them in your in box or not. ). For myself, I have been enjoying posting the quotes. I’ve also been trying to post quotes from many different books, so that participants can get ideas about books they might want to read. Again, hope you are doing great !
Blessings to you.