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Hello.
I am a male who has been diagnosed with Antisocial Personality Disorder, and would call myself a sociopath.
“What the hell are you doing here?”, I hear you asking.
I can and would like to dispel some myths about ASPD that I find rather intrusive and/or incorrect. Or, if you would simply like to talk to me as a type of therapy, that could also yield interesting results.
I am not in your life, and thus, can’t and won’t try to force anything on you, or force you to do anything; and I will try my best to tone down any manipulation I might do.If you’re wondering what I could possibly get out of this – human behavior is one of my most favorite things to witness. Your comments, however worded they be, would suffice. I’m not going to try to pull some shady manipulation on anyone here.
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Self-identified sociopaths have commented on Lovefraud in the past and it has been enlightening. This topic can remain as long as our prime rules are followed – Do not attack other members of the board, and do not post anything that is patently offensive.
If anyone feels triggered by this person, please skip this topic.
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Hello,
I am intrigued by a sociopath posting on this site. Can I ask what are the myths that you would like to dispel that you find intrusive/and or incorrect? I am open minded and willing to hear your points of view.
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You said you will manipulate your friends if necessary. Is there any way you can be out-manipulated? Or can you smell a trap a mile away?
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Can a Sopath be in a relationship with someone ffor over a year that they say they love, act like they love, look them in in face and say they love them, spend time with them and do all of the things normal people do in relationships. Ask them to get married then one day just leave and erase them from there lives because they said they never really loved them in the first place? Are they able to keep up a charade for that long?
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I am less certain you’ll be able to give me guidance, as I am seeking assistance regarding my father, not a partner. But here goes, anyways. I am nearly an adult, and my parents are divorced, but my sociopathic father has called up and told me he is coming to see me. No discussion, no way to avoid it since he knows the rest of my family’s address due to alimony/child support payments. Do you believe he would try to physically harm me/abduct me? I remain in fairly regular contact with him (about 1 phone call per week or two,), and our conversations are for the most part pleasant. I know I should be concerned about this sudden visit, I just don’t know how concerned. How violent are sociopaths? And how much/how little are they capable of caring for their own children?
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Do sociopaths take their time forming bonds? A man friended me on Facebook 4 years ago who went to the same schools as me but several years younger. We commented occasionally on each others posts. At some point he started private messaging me…never anything out of line, he just seemed to have the same experiences/interests. At some point he got off of Facebook and requested my number so we could continue to speak…again he was never forward. Eventually we met in person when I was working in his hometown. Very casual meeting. We continued to be friends. He would go long periods of time without texting, but I didn’t think anything of it as I am married. When he learned my father was deathly ill he drove to the hospital and left some nice reading literature with the nurse to give us…never intruded on our privacy. He began texting me very regularly and at some point figured out that my 30 year marriage wasn’t as strong as it appeared. Even commented that I held my cards close. I was an emotional mess between being married to someone with a personality disorder and an ill parent. Yes, we started an affair. He seemed like my soul mate. I separated from my husband and began planning a divorce.After a few months of seeing him I saw a side that contradicted. found this website and put two and two together…noticed he lied about things, wasn’t always available, made me feel sorry for him. He almost got me to give him a large sum of money for PTSD treatment but I smelled a rat. He got angry and we split up. But a month later he begins texting me again telling me how sorry he was for how he acted. I accused him of lying to me and he went into a rage. He has threatened suicide. Stupidly I allowed him back into my life. He showed a beautiful side again to me…poured it on. Pushed to move to my town and live with me.Wanted me to get a divorce quickly so we could get married and live this perfect life. Then more and more lies. I told him I was going to work on my marriage and didn’t want to have a relationship with him anymore.
I am prepared for the worst.
My question to you…how can he act so normal for days or weeks at a time then totally blow it? I’m mad at myself for being a fool. But after reading stories on this website seems like a dodged a bullet. He once told me his ex wife told him he was a sociopath and bipolar. Why did he even tell me this? It confirmed my suspicions. Also told me he was only jealous of one thing from me…my relationship with my children. (He has no contact with his)
He acts so miserable and seems to genuinely mourn his children. He seems like he is so miserable. Is it boredom? Does he know he’s a sociopath? Lots of questions I know but would like your perspective… -
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Wow. Your reply struck a nerve. No, he didn’t say anything like what you said…I was actually waiting on him to admit it to me. I hinted at and tried to get it out of him by asking him if he was bipolar…told him I didn’t care, just wanted to know. If he would have used those words who knows. We may still be speaking. I believe he’s too afraid to get exposed. He’s threatened to expose the affair to my husband. Told me once he drove to my house and was waiting on us…of course it was a lie. I’m prepared for that. It won’t hurt me if he tells. I think he knows that.
He has many times “threatened” to not contact me again. Every time I tell him it’s the right decision…he always initiates contact again. He likes to triangulate as well. He thinks it bothers me but it doesn’t. Just makes me realize more what I’m dealing with.
I think he is angry that I figured him out. He was banking on marrying me and using my money. Sex was exceptional. He used that to keep me going. He also was a brilliant writer. What is it about the language skills of sociopaths? He could write a bestseller.
Thank you for being so candid on this blog. I’m not sure what you get out of it. Maybe it’s interesting to you as well until you get bored with it. -
I do project work. I just got triangulated by a sociopath who got to my big boss with a story about me having a ‘mental health episode’ after [sociopath] intercepted a private email written to my line manager about why I didn’t want to work with [sociopath].
I replied to my boss’s email of concern as a sane person (basically, “this is not a big deal and I have no wish to discuss this). My boss emailed back, “you are in denial. [Sociopath] is very upset and you have destroyed a great friendship and working relationship. I don’t play blame games. I insist you explain why you suddenly hate [sociopath]”.
I gave a few facts re my growing realization that [sociopath] was a pathological liar. No emotions, just verifiable facts.
Big boss emailed back, “Stop lying, you are irritating me”. I’ve not got any project work since. Both my line manager and Big boss think [sociopath] is the best person ever. Both Line and Big live in different cities so all contact is via email.
My question is, is there any reply I can give to my big boss that will save my job so I can continue to get project work? Big boss will eventually figure out that he has been gaslighted in a year or two, but that will be too late for me. I need this job.
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Mine kept insisting it’s PTSD.
Yes, he has thrown out a few hints to me. He would tell me he couldn’t be a sociopath because he had empathy for the handicapped or other sick veterans.
The really cruel one was when he “dedicated” a song to me. The One I Love, by REM. I got the underlying meaning immediately. Told him how dark and manipulative he was… making it very clear to me that I’m “A simple prop to occupy my time” Actually I listened to it over and over to get over him. Made me feel in control in a way.I wrote him a very nasty email using the lyrics in the body of the message. He played dumb and said he thought it was a love song, but commended me on an excellent email.I must confess I have participated in the mind games knowingly. It was fun for awhile. I kept waiting for him to admit he has APD…
Now he’s way too needy and not the person who I thought he was in the beginning so I am no longer interested. He didn’t play his cards right with me. I was an easy target initially but my common sense kicked in. He thought triangulating with other women as a threat would get me to take action and “claim” him. That failed miserably with me. I kept telling him I’m glad he has someone else since I’m not available. He mentioned how much other women were after him. I knew different. He stays in his house for weeks at a time just sleeping and playing online. He told me once that he was attracted to me for my love of living. When we were together and he was at his “best” he never came up to par except in the bedroom.It sounds crazy but I do miss him…not the parts that drove me away of course but the person he presented himself to be. He was very bright, had a funny sense of humor and wrote brilliantly…especially about us. He was my ideal. I know he studied me and tried to become that person to me. On texts and emails he was…but when we were together I was disappointed…had an emptiness…he always blew it. When he went into a rage once he scared me…that ended it for me. I can tolerate a lot but not bullying and yelling. I knew exactly what I was dealing with at that point and was smart enough not to let it escalate into something physical. It was if the mask fell off and I saw the real him. So sad because I loved him.
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Hello. I believe my ex bf is a sociopath. We were together 2 years and we got very close. He opened up to me to show his dark side. He likes to watch torture videos, he stabbed baloon just for fun, he got angry personality and created story that his job is secret agent. I’m a soft hearted person and fell for him thinking I can fix him hence sticking for 2 years. I feel like I’m the only person who ever get that close to him. He is an orphan and live a fake life in front of his adopted family. At least that’s the story he told me. When I thought all gone well and we get closer, he broke up with me without explaining reason just 1 month ago. Then gone disappeared.
I got pregnant 2 weeks after the break up, desperately looking for him. He replied with denial words and offer money. Then I found out that he got married with a woman I dont know existed. I left confused and ruined without explanation. When I told him I know about his wedding, he emailed back hope someday you can forgive me. I dont know this person at all! We had so much memory together and now it looks like all a lie?
In any case, do you think he can come back and look for me in the future? Or this just it? I block all his contacts yet somehow he can still find me if he want. Should I say rude things to make him go forever or will that intrigue him to “play” with me again? Or should I say nice words such as I forgive u so he got bored and find other prey? I’m so worried. He is a dangerous man and I can tell his wife has no clue his real side yet. I dont see any woman can handle him. And nope, he is not a human who capable to feel love, guilt, and compassion.
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Perhaps you have insight on the million dollar question: How do I escape from the Spath?
Sadly I married and procreated with him (I’ve since divorced him) but the courts have awarded him 50-50 custody. What I can’t figure out is how to escape. I suspect the only thing he cares about is not being exposed. Threatening to expose him seems awfully dangerous, though. Any thoughts on how to get him to lose interest in the kids and myself?
Oh – and the ad thing – it’s targeted advertising. So the ads you see on your screen are reflective of the recent activity on *your* computer. I don’t see ads like that.
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Hello,
I just joined this site, and I was wondering if you are still open to answering questions?
Thank you!
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Thank you for your reply. I was wondering -[if it would not take up too much of your time]- if you could explain to me the “dance”, or dynamics, between a BPD Woman, and a Sociopathic Man? Can a Sociopath really handle a BPD Woman? How about visa versa? I believe that the BPD looks to the Sociopath for the self- control that she lacks in her own chaotic world, especially when she is triggered?
Amanda
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There is a Blog Site run by a self-proclaimed Sociopath. Most of the women on there act like they worship the ground he walks on, and tell him how magnificent he is every chance they get. It gets a bit much.
Anyway, When I ask him questions, he is short and arrogant with me, if he even post my questions or chooses to even answer them. Everyone else, he is witty, funny, adorable, flirtatious, and acts like their friend or lover.
Why does he single me out as if to make an “example” of me to others with his very short, arrogant, and haughty answers to me? Why me?
I just don’t understand. Any ideas? I have BPD, and he knows this. He acts like he hates me personally, but is okay with everyone else.
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Alaska,
To answer your question, it’s probably because he knows it affects you and being the ass that HG Tudor is, he will hurt people under the Radar where no one except his target can detect it.
I’ve seen his blog, and this “Elite Narcissist” is a low life, arrogant coward who must remain invisible for reasons that are very suspicious to me.
Women get off on his voice alone, but I’ve heard many sexy voices from both men and women and when it is actually seen who is behind the voice, it’s a shocking disappointment. Besides, who knows what tools this lying fraud uses to enhance his voice.
I’m sure he’s laughing and each one of his worshippers and calling them “fools” as the cash flows into his bank account. It’s actually embarrassing to see the commenters on his blog bowing down to him, offering him their fuel, and complimenting this evil Sociopath as if he were a saint.
He’s targeting the perfect audience to get his loot from, Narcissist Addicts, Codependents, sad people with no self-esteem, and lonely, desperate women. He’s making a fool out of all of them while the money keeps flowing in. Of course, they are more than willing to be made his fools.
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Alaska,
To answer your question, it’s probably because he knows it affects you and being the ass that HG Tudor is, he will hurt people under the Radar where no one except his target can detect it.
I’ve seen his blog, and this “Elite Narcissist” is a low life, arrogant coward who must remain invisible for reasons that are very suspicious to me.
Women get off on his voice alone, but I’ve heard many sexy voices from both men and women and when it is actually seen who is behind the voice, it’s a shocking disappointment. Besides, who knows what tools this lying fraud uses to enhance his voice.
I’m sure he’s laughing and each one of his worshippers and calling them “fools” as the cash flows into his bank account. It’s actually embarrassing to see the commenters on his blog bowing down to him, offering him their fuel, and complimenting this evil Sociopath as if he were a saint.
He’s targeting the perfect audience to get his loot from, Narcissist Addicts, Codependents, sad people with no self-esteem, and lonely, desperate women. He’s making a fool out of all of them while the money keeps flowing in. Of course, they are more than willing to be made his fools.
lissa
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Alaska,
Get off that site. You are only getting hurt worse. You said your SPath is an author….could be him messing with you
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Yes, I have.
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Can a sociopath be in denial of who they are? Can one have internal struggles within?
I’m having trouble getting mine to let me go… -
Yes, thank you for your help with my question. I do appreciate it.
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Thank you, Winterk.
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CT-Good Evening.
Why are sociopaths so controlling? Do they ever trip up on their lies? -
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Deleted for Safety Reasons
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How would you tear him down?
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Wow, I had a FB experience like this that lasted nearly a year. He was from another continent, but after getting to “know me”, he claimed I was his soul mate, and he was going to move here, and marry me. Of course, I was thrilled. This was the Honeymoon Period.
Then came the Devaluation Period of Triangulating and Gaslighting me to the extremes and talking to others behind my back, and lots of other nasty tricks.
Finally, the Discard, and the Smear Campaign on Facebook; Flying Monkeys included.
Devastating to have someone tell you that they “live for you” and you are their “very life”, and then simply ghost and abandon you in the blink of an eye, with lies and smears to follow. Talk about Cognitive Dissonance!!
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The one who calls himself a Greater Elite Narcissist/Sociopath claims that physical violence is “below him”, and he’d rather torture others with mental and psychological torture.
He says there is: Lesser Narcissist, Mid Range, and Greater Elite. Of course, he is a Greater Elite Narcissist/Sociopath.
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Ha ha…ya, that is funny 😆 about the ads. Ironic. True, that!
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Yes to “Me’s” question, not to Alaska’s question.
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Am I allowed to email you, or is that against the rules? I just cannot say too much here. He scares me.
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My email is: NONE
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Alaska: I don’t know what the rules are. However, you are asking an admitted sadistic sociopath if you can contact him to talk privately about how you got sucked in and worked over by a sadistic sociopath. WTF!!??
No offense intended to you, “Me”. You have been very helpful to me, and I value your input as an ‘insider’, but I continue to be guarded in asking you questions BECAUSE I don’t know your intent. I will take what insights you can offer, but I will also make sure that I protect myself ‘just in case’.
“Me”, when I read your reply to Alaska’s post, I thought to myself “mirroring”. I saw red flags waving wildly. Then I read Alaska’s response.
Alaska, read the previous exchange between you and “Me” and see if you can see the mirroring that took place and how you reacted. I am not concluding that “Me” intends to play with you (which is a matter of “Me’s” intent; which neither you nor I can know), just that the exchange that took place is classic mirroring and you responded by inviting this guy into your private life.
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What is Mirroring, exactly? I am not certain I understand…
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So what is the worst thing you have done to someone who made you pissed off in real life? Did that make your anger go away against this person?
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Could you do this to someone from afar? I’m just asking because I’m hoping he doesn’t do this to me.
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Yes, I get it. I do.
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I wised up just now. Thank you 😊
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“Mirroring” is the hook that sociopaths use to get you to trust them. They get you to talk about yourself. If you like dogs, they say they like dogs. If you hate rain, hey, they hate rain too. They “mirror” back your thoughts and feelings and dreams to you. You feel like you found your soul mate.
You (the target) believe you and the sociopath are so much alike that you trust the sociopath instantly and deeply. Why wouldn’t you? He/she is telling you exactly what you want to hear. You are worthwhile and need to be helped and they can help you. The problem is that “mirroring” is not necessarily truth. The Sociopath might actually hate dogs, but is lying to you. He is lying so that you trust him. You won’t be able to tell the difference. Sociopaths are really, really good liars.
In your exchange with “Me”, you talked about being a victim. you needed a rescuer. “Me” responded exactly as the perfect rescuer would. He got angry that you had been put in this situation. His anger validated you. Then he spoke about how he would avenge how you had been treated. He was your knight in shining armor. When I read his reply he was acknowledging your fear, validating your experiences and expressing outrage that this could happen to you. He might be telling the truth. He might be lying. The trouble with people (any people… I agree with “Me” that ASD is on a continuum and all people have elements of this) is that you DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN BELIEVE. It takes lots of lots of interactions to get an idea (like at least 20 where trust can be built up little by little), but even then, sociopaths can keep up a mask for years. In ‘neurotypical’ (non-ASD) relationships, mistakes are admitted and goodwill is established very slowly over a long time. “Mirroring” is a strategy that is a quick and dirty shortcut to trick someone into trusting them.
However, “Me” has said that he was not doing this deliberately to manipulate you, and this is as possible as the alternative, that he IS doing it to manipulate you. “Mirroring” in itself is not bad. It is a technique that therapists use. Parents also use it on their kids (think of baby talk with baby). This is what I meant by “intent”. Just because someone uses a technique, does not mean that they are planning to suck you in. “Me” could be genuinely expressing his feelings.
I was alerted to the possibility because “Me” has already said he was a psychopath. I might be wrong in my initial assessment of “Me”. I will alter my judgement after prolonged interactions if necessary. In the mean time, I will keep my guard up. I assume that “Me” understands this, because of his/her initial posts where s/he said something like, “I don’t expect you to believe me”. If Me was telling the truth, then s/he would be expecting suspicion and doubt from many people on this site. I believe that “Me” can give us some really useful insights, which is why I am grateful “Me” is on this website. However, I am also keeping my guard up.
In short, my flags for you were: “Me” quickly responded in a way that was most sociopaths’ favorite manipulation technique. a) you have identified yourself as acknowledged victim material for a psychopath (easy pickings) b) “Me” identifies him/herself as a psychopath c) “mirroring” was used (not necessarily a bad thing in itself), but my first thought was “this is mirroring”, rather than “what a nice, helpful guy”. Then d) you responded by asking this guy into your life to help (save) you.
This is a really good way for you to learn what is like to be “mirrored”. The interactions with “Me” (and how good it feels to be instantly understood and validated) are equivalent to 6 months of therapy IMO. This is why I am glad “Me” has offered him/herself to help us fill in the gaps of our own experiences.
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Also, the stuff about flying monkeys and people keeping tabs on you. That sounds like a teenager bragging. I suspect you make it easy for him to stalk you via facebook and friending your friends. All he has to do is phone up one of your FB friends and ask what you are up to, if you have already blocked him. So get off FB, get a new email account AND DON’T GIVE OUT THE DETAILS TO ANYONE WHO KNOWS HIM. Sociopaths are good liars and will contact your friends with a sob story (another favorite ploy) to get them to tell him what you are up to (eg, “no, Alaska was not in the hospital. I saw her skiing at Mt Olympus on Saturday”). That’s how he finds out what you are up to. Or, more likely, he is lying about that too.
This loser has no secret powers. He’s a pathological liar. He’s just persistent and doesn’t take no for an answer. Most likely he knows you are easily scared and is playing on this. You have probably told everyone and his dog about your story (this is one of the traumatic outcomes of being toyed with by a sociopath, so is very, very understandable). However, this symptom of abuse is probably contributing to his ability to stalk you.
If he has weapons or you feel he can get violent, get a restraining order and move. However, from his stupid bragging he sounds like a total loser.
This is another example where “Me” has been helpful. If you read his response to my questions (what would you do?) he said he would destroy the guy by befriending him, and with a smile on his face. “Me” didn’t talk about flying monkeys and spies everywhere.
Anyway, people like your ex don’t have any friends to do this weird type of stuff for them.
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Madelaine,
Thank you so much for your help and the information you provided on what Mirroring is all about. I understand better, now. Yes, the past Sociopath played me like a cat plays with a mouse.
Thank you so much
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Deleted for safety reasons…
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Yes, I am sorry. It might be due to my BPD. I have a strange and very mysterious “addiction” to your kind ever since I was ensnared by the very first one a very long time ago. I also grew up in a very abusive household with a Narcissist mother.
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Can one ever be friends with an ASPD after having a relationship? Or is that their way of keeping you connected to them? I’m having a hard time with this one.
And thank you for your responses.
Another question, you say you have never caused anyone emotional harm, but in the next breath you said you wouldn’t hesitate to manipulate any of your friends…that can cause emotional harm depending on the person’s value system.
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Winterk,
I hope my response does not deter the Sociopath from answering your question as I know he has the true experience in which to answer you, but while you are waiting on his help, I wanted to let you know that each Narcissist/Sociopath who ever wanted to continue to be my friend only did so to not only continue hurting me, but to do so ever more so, causing even further harm, and much deeper abuse, and even more despair for me to dig my way out from when they were all done with me, or I was all done with them 😞. There were four (4) of them, and always ended this way- more hurt and pain.
It was so hard to fathom that I could not believe them because they were each so remorseful, loving, and sorrowful; their tears seemed so real; they said all the right things. They spoke to my very heart. They each made me feel alive like none other, but all the while, they were planting their newer, bigger seeds of deception, lies, horror, “under the radar” abuse, smear campaigns, gas lightings, Triangulating, robbing me of my identity and self esteem, making me feel like the crazy one, [actually making me into the crazy one!!], spiritual, psychological, and emotional abuse to the hilt…along with major play on ABANDONMENT because I am BPD.
I am so sorry, Winterk. You are having a very rough time; I can tell. I’ve been there, and am still spinning as you can see, too. Being on this site, here, helping you, is helping me to stay off the Sociopath’s site who deliberately hooked me.
I admire the sociopath on this site because even though he’s a Sociopath, he’s enough courage to say that he erased my email address and that he, and I, should not correspond privately because it would take us both down a very bad path. I really admire that. The other Sociopath on the other Blog Site emailed me, FIRST, from my own Blogging Address, and ensnared me!
He ended up playing everyone against me on his blog. He is a bully. Sadly, he makes money for being a bully. One day, things will be made right. I have faith in this.
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Me, too. He can charm ANYONE, and EVERYONE. Everyone on his site loves him to pieces. They practically worship him, and if I said anything negative about him, all the other bloggers swooped in, like vultures, defending him, and tore me up. Yet, any comments I mentioned about his emails to me, he deleted so they never made it to his blog so others could understand why I was so upset with him. They only see him as “the greatest thing that ever lived”.
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Those women sound pathetic, and so does the self-proclaimed sociopath. I wouldn’t take any of them seriously if I were you.
He might feel that you’re not fawning on him as much as those other women are; hence his hostility towards you.
Perhaps they’re all teenagers, or at least some of them are.
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Thank you, Sellenna…yes, I am off the site for good. It triggered me badly. I could not worship him; rather, it made me very angry. It reminded me of a big love fest, and I did get very angry, sometimes, because the triggering brought out the worst in me. From what I understand, they are women in their 30’s to upper 40’s who have all suffered Narcissist abuse and are clinging onto him because of the validation he provides. But, he is a sociopath, who delights in who he is, and has mentioned on several occasions that he is a god, and the devil.
I, too, was charmed by him, at first, but then I couldn’t handle the worship anymore, and it triggered hostility in me, and brought out my worst. I do not know why it brought out hostility in me, and not his other minions.
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They’re adult women? That’s even worse. It sounds like you might be healthier than they are, since you got sick of the worshipping, and they haven’t learned from their experiences with narcissistic abuse. It’s so sad that they seem to need validation from this lowlife.
Good for you for being off that site. So many sick, crazy people out there.
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The reason Me’s description of how he would handle a self-proclaimed elite narcissist (or whatever the label was) is so alluring is because it’s something we all wish we could do to someone at some point or other in our lives – someone we think deserves to be brought down a peg. Sociopaths seem to appoint themselves judge of who needs to be punished, and they don’t have any fear of reprisal. This is dangerous but it is also powerful and can seem very alluring to those of us who wish we could have revenge. Apparently, this quality is so alluring to us “ordinary” people that we worship heroes like Clint Eastwood who enact vigilante justice. Heck, we vote them into office (trying to avoid a political rant here….). We still have to follow rules and laws so we don’t end up in prison. So we become fascinated with those who feel they are above the law. Or they make their own law. We wish we could be like that deep down because we think that would give us a sense of empowerment we don’t have. My takeaway from that is that we do have an incredible amount of power that we don’t realize we have. Once we tap into our own power to change our lives, we won’t need to be so fascinated with sociopaths anymore. They are just people whom you can choose or not choose to have in your life, depending on how much joy or grief they bring you.
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I totally agree.
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Is the sociopath so jealous of the people they want to be like, that they want to control and manipulate them? If they do not trip up on their lies, can you tell that they got caught in on of the lies by the way they act, i.e.
turning red, a nervous smile? They want to make everyones’ life unbearable, what can be done to make their life unbearable? -
Yes, some are very addicted to the forum and talk about being on an airplane, traveling home from “so and so place” and checking in on The Blog, or being at the Beach sunbathing, and checking in on The Blog, and the Sociopath greets them like long lost friends, stating their Blog “Name”, and “Nice to see you, again!” Mostly all women on there. Just weird. Somehow he manages to use someone to scapegoat and he is able to get the others to gang up on that person. If that person says something nice, the “gang” says she is “arse kissing him”, and if she says something negative, then they become vultures and tear that person up. If she says something funny, they make it sound like she is stupid. Yet, if any of the rest say any of the same types of comments, and other commenters show hugs, and hearts, and applause. I don’t know how the Sociopath manages to get all the others to gang up on one particular person all the time, but he makes it happen.
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This is a very powerful reply, Stargazer, and one that I truly appreciate. The comment in itself makes me feel empowered. Really, Sociopaths can only control us as much as we allow them to by how much we care. Really, from everything I witnessed on the one blog, I can just turn off my computer anytime, and say, “I don’t care”, and get on with my life…
Whatever, or however, a Sociopath [and even his followers] treat me isn’t a personal reflection of me; it’s really a reflection of themselves.
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I’ve read that sociopaths will accuse their partners of being “crazy, bipolar, or unstable. ” Do you ever try to actually manipulate someone into developing a mental illness or do you just say those things when your target tries to stand up for themselves/ call you out on manipulative behavior?
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Alaska, thank you, it is indeed empowering to know that we have control over our own lives, but it doesn’t feel that way when we are caught up in drama. I would take your comment one step further and say that the first step is to stop letting anyone control you. The next step is even more powerful – when you see you are drawn to particular people – especially those you know are dangerous – stop and pause. Ask yourself “Why?” If you don’t know, ask yourself why you don’t know. Keep asking until the answer reveals itself. Just knowing the answer to this can help you heal the part that draws you to that person in the first place. If it’s because he is the only person who makes you feel special, then you can ask yourself why you don’t already feel special? The answer might be painful, and that’s okay because you can then feel that pain and release it. Consider that you can learn to value and appreciate yourself, rather than seeking validation through someone else. If you are drawn to that person because of the power and charisma, consider that these are untapped qualities that you yourself have or would like to have. Even the most powerful, creative, brilliant people have their dark sides. No one is perfect, and no one is better than you. They don’t have your answers for you, no matter what they say. Most importantly, anything you can seek from someone else, you can also give to yourself. You would probably laugh if you ever heard me talking to myself (my inner child) and asking, “What do you need?” or saying, “You are unique and special, and I will always be here for you.” As silly as it sounds, it is a way to spath-proof your life. If you already know you can take care of your own needs without a lot of drama, you don’t need someone to step in to do this for you. You will approach relationships from a more healthy and balanced position. You won’t be as needy, and you will have the strength to walk away when things don’t feel right. You will require more from a potential partner because, after all, you don’t really need him that badly – you know how to take care of yourself.
Imagine what your life would be like when every time you had a longing for a dangerous person (or substance, etc.), you could use that longing as a path to your healing and wholeness by simply sitting with the feelings and asking yourself why. Imagine what your relationships would be like when you can be more selective because you don’t need someone that badly, when suddenly you have your choice of friends or mates because you are radiating happiness and now everyone wants to be around you. Imagine. 🙂
I will give you an example of the questioning process I’m talking about. I learned it from a woman in a healing group many years ago. I was in this group, and it was my turn to ask a question. But no question came to mind. It seemed easy for everyone else, but a struggle for me. Finally, I asked out loud to myself, “Why is this always such hard work?” As soon as I asked the answer came to me. When I was growing up, from the ages of 8 to 15, my stepfather made me constantly work. I was literally in a work camp. I wasn’t allowed to play with my friends or do much that was fun – I was always cleaning, cooking, or helping him build something. I hated it, but if I didn’t do it, I would get beaten. My life was hard work and drudgery. When I made the connection there in the group, I cried, because it was very painful and I had repressed the pain. After that, I released the idea that healing is such hard work and it became easier.
I hope that helps to illustrate the questioning process I’m talking about. It’s very very powerful if you persist with it, even when you don’t have an answer.
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Thank you, Stargazer, so much 🦋🦋🦋 Your words have empowered and inspired me more than I can say. Do you belong to a certain group other than this one that is help you? You might not wish to say. I just am not in any therapy, right now, and want to keep getting stronger. I could give you my email address if you know of a group that has personally helped you online? But, I totally understand if you wish not to say. I just have been lost for awhile and with no one to sort it out with. No one can understand who has not been there. Really, no one. 😕 But, here is more than enough help you haven given me and I do appreciate it more than I can say 🤗.
Thank you!
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Why do you say, “…things could go downhill for both of us…”? Why would things “go downhill” for Sociopath? I am only curious, now. Would it be because of BPD/Sociopath Connection, or because you would kill me, and maybe get in trouble? Why do you say this about “things go downhill for both of us”?
Does anyone know the answer??
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Are these questions for anyone to answer, or for Sociopath to answer?
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Alaska, I’m truly grateful if my comments can help you or anyone else here. No, I do not belong to any other healing websites. I am on FB and belong to a reptile forum there, as I have a pet snake. That’s it. This is all the school of hard knocks and the benefit of many years of meditation practice (which is very similar to the DBT you are learning), some therapy, and mostly my own self-work. When I was young I was in graduate training to be a psychotherapist but dropped out for many reasons. Now, as I’m older, I have a strong desire to help others who are going through some of the things I’ve been through. I am currently a massage therapist and Reiki healer. I still struggle with my own issues but they are not anything like they used to be. It does get better. I wish when I was in the worst of it there had been forums like this to help me with a road map to recovery. It was before the time of computers, and I felt very isolated then.
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Yes, well your comments have helped me immensely and I even saved them so I could reread them. Life is not easy, and having BPD makes it that much harder, and being triggered by Narcissists and Sociopaths even more triggering, complex, and despairing.
As a BPD, I’ve always had difficulty understanding my own identity and thus I would pick up other people’s identities because it was the only way I knew how to exist. So, if I want to be heathy, I need to be around healthy people so I pick up healthy identities, and not mean-spirited people. When I pick up mean-spirited people’s identities, it makes me feel very unsettled, miserable, a stranger to myself, and like a foreigner inside my own body- because this is not me.
I hope this makes sense…
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Alaska, I’ve been thinking a lot about the comments here. It occurred to me that perhaps people who have big abandonment issues (I don’t want to limit it to BPD or any diagnosis) are attracted to sociopaths BECAUSE of the mirroring. There is a school of thought in psychology that says that abandonment issues occur when a baby is not mirrored adequately by its parents. This is called “self” psychology and a guy called Kohut (or similar) developed it.
Basically, babies learn that they are loved and valued when they are validated. Parents do this through baby-talk with babies, comforting and hugging a child who is frightened by a nightmare or a storm etc. Parents also mirror good things, like if a child brings home a painting they did in school, the parent is thrilled and displays it proudly on the fridge. All these mirroring activities act to inform the baby/child that their feelings are valid and that their feelings are important to the parent.
According to Kohut, problems occur when the parents do not ‘validate’ the child. Say, for example, a four year old comes running into the house with a worm. They are excited! They found this wonderful, squirmy thing in the garden. They expect mommy to be as thrilled as they are. When mommy’s response is “ugh, you dirty child… take that ugly thing outside”, the child is “disavowed”. They don’t know where to put their joyous, excited feelings, which are obviously “wrong”.
If disavowal of feelings happens “too often” (for either or both good and bad feelings), the child has no sense of the feelings part of “me”. Self psychology as a therapy consists of basically mirroring feelings back to the patient so they get re-parented regarding having feelings of love, hate, anger, fear, joy, envy, pride etc validated.
I am now thinking that sociopaths would be extremely seductive to people who have a history of having their feelings (and therefore their ‘self’) invalidated. It’s like people with BPD are the “hand” and sociopaths are the “glove”. The two fit together so well.
I agree with everything stargazer has said. This is just another thing that has been percolating in my head the last couple of days, and it might help you in starting to answer “why?”
If my idle musings aren’t helpful, then feel free to shrug them off. I don’t know you, so I am talking in a general way rather than pointing you in a specific direction. Amongst your and my many powers, is the the power to ignore someone’s comments (and not even give a reason).
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Madelaine,
Thank you so much for your comment, and yes, validation is especially important for BPD people who never really quite received it while growing up, from my own experience of course.
Yes, the mirroring from a Sociopath is very seductive, as you mentioned, [now that I think on it] because it’s giving me what I feel I have needed for so long, and it validates my very existence, which seems to be the essence of my condition and misplacement in life.
The Mirroring from the Sociopath makes me feel like I am alive, I matter, I am special, Important, appreciated, valuable, worthwhile, and needed- everything that I never felt the whole time while growing up. And, the Mirroring also makes me me feel like he understands me like none other in the entire human race, again, something I never experienced- being understood, or anyone even caring to understand. Ironically, the Sociopath makes me feel like a Somebody, instead of the Nobody I was always taught to believe I was. Sadly, it’s all a lie with the Sociopath, and I am just the perfect prey.
It’s sad to have someone play on one’s need to be loved, needed, valued, and understood due to childhood trauma.
This has been a very insightful comment, as well, Madelaine. I very much appreciate them all.
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Madeline,
What a great post. Thank you so much for your insights. I’m not BPD but have been married to a NPD/BPD for over 30 years. My childhood with parents who bickered nonstop and being invalidaded by spouse for so long made me a prime target for Sociopath. I know what I’m dealing with but haven’t been able to cut all ties and go complete no contact yet.
I believe part of the cutting off is so difficult because it’s like you are cutting off everything you want/need in life. I realize I was mirrored. Even with that knowledge it’s hard. Very.
I am well educated, well traveled, wealthy and attractive person who has raised very bright children who are all good citizens. They are all aware of personality disorders as we discuss frequently.
This has been the most painful process I have ever gone through in my life.
I guess I could never fathom anyone being worse than someone with BPD…now I have. -
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What happens when a sociopath doesn’t want to be as they are as you say? What kind of ugly?
I didn’t think a sociopath could have feelings to not be what they are.
This is very interesting.
Thank you for the discussion. -
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I see. Thank you for answering my question, Sociopath.
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Well, would you be nice to the snake do you think?
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As a BPD, when people are nice to me, I am nice to them. I involuntarily reflect how they treat me. If they are sweet to me, I am sweet to them. If they are mean to me, I am mean to them, and I hate this about myself! I’m really trying to be a better person. Seriously, I need better control. I will give someone the world if they are only kind to me, but if they are a jerk to me, I have a murderous rage within me, and am sorry to say that it is only because of medication that I have not got thru with my murderous rages. It scares me! It’s like someone inside of me whom I cannot control. Yet, I can be the most loving person you could ever meet!
And, I feel super remorseful, and regretful, and love deeply. I just feel everything way too deeply. Everything hurts so much.
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Yes, “Me”. I think this is all related to attachment theory. It always saddens (not sure if this is the right word) me to think of how much of what we become depends on coincidence. A child who has a temperament with heightened sensitivities is a wonderful thing because the child has so much capacity for compassion, empathy and understanding. However, if the parents do not have the skills (knowledge, time or ability due to depression, substance abuse, mental health issues etc) to validate the child’s high sensitivities (and teach them how to soothe the heightened sensitivity to fears etc), then the child can be damaged.
This is why I am interested in your story, “Me”. My idle thoughts about sociopaths is that they have the tragic luck to be born with some wires crossed, or missing (not sure what the right word here is either). Then the quality of the parenting also becomes important. I know it is incredibly difficult to modify the behavior of a child who has severely reduced sensitives to others, but it seems that you have not turned out too bad. You have a lot of self awareness and courage to start this discussion. You could have been dishonest about who you are and your motives, and as far as I can tell, you have played by the rules.
Do you think you were socialised to be kind to people despite your reduced ability to care about them? One my theories is that people with ASPD have huge issues with power and a lot of the mind games and mischief they do is revenge for a childhood where they were not validated for their special gifts. Not having “normal” amounts of empathy is not in itself a bad thing. If surgeons had high empathy I don’t think they would be able to cut people open. It seems the military goes to some lengths in boot camp to remove sensitivities in recruits and replace it with loyalty and obedience. I think spies are picked for their ability to not feel bad about taking advantage of their target “friends” who are sources of information.
I’m wondering if parents, or schools can make a difference in helping a kid born with low sensitivities channel their strengths (ability to read people and strategize) to make the world a better place. I have a theory (and this will sound strange, but bear with me) that a really good political leader would need to have ASPD qualities. They could schmooze the public to get elected, but once elected they could unemotionally investigate the facts and make decisions that benefit the country rather than their friends (big banks, corporations etc). In a leader, loyalty to a certain class of people (rich corporation types) is not necessarily good the country as a whole. So if there were a sociopath who could channel his or her strengths into good (and put a lid on the spiteful, vengeful aspects), then I think this would be a good thing.
“Me”, what do you think are the things that could happen to a temperamentally low-sensitivity kid that could bring out the best (and worst) in them? As you point out, there is a lot of knowledge (Bowlby etc) about bringing out the best in very high sensitivity kids, but there isn’t much that I am aware of about bringing out the best in very low-sensitivity kids so that they don’t turn out to be the abusers that this website is all about.
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Me,
I now realize I cannot be friends with him. He texted me today wanting to see me and I told him that I didn’t want to see him or have further communication with him. He didn’t take it well and threatened to come to my house if he didn’t hear from me. He has threatened me before in this manner. Another time when I tried to end the relationship with him he wanted to meet and I did. He got very very angry and aggressive with me and threw things.
Today I texted back and told him he doesn’t control where, when, how or what I do. I told him I was retaining an attorney and he could converse through him if he needed. He told me I was a crazy psycho *itch. (same thing he called his ex wife and all ex girlfriends) He told me if an attorney contacted him I will lose. He will make sure of it. He told me I was sick and he would be fine.What’s your take? What is his next move? From what I read, this is probably not the end of it? How far will this go do you think?
Thanks
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Do you have a history of violence/aggressive behavior? I’m actually curious if all sociopaths are violent, and if so is it a behavior that can be controlled despite the inability to control other characteristics sociopaths display?
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Me,
Thanks for your reply.
I have blocked my Facebook and phone. If he tries to contact me by email I will not respond…I will forward to my attorney. I’m not threatening a lawsuit or case, so nothing for either of us to win or lose. He was just openly threatening me. Im just using the attorney as a mediator and deterrent. Attorney worked with the DA and has seen this before. He did warn me to be hyper-viligent on my surroundings because he has seen some instances of physical abuse. I am preparing for the worst case scenario and hoping for the best. -
“Me”, you said: “life, emotions, feelings, happiness, pain, joy, everything. It’s all just a system. The sadness I felt was just chemicals and electrical signals in my brain. They weren’t tangible — they don’t exist in physical space. They are just things my brain does to occupy itself as it experiences the world.”
I would love to be like that. To me happiness, pain, joy etc “make” me do things I know in my gut are not good for me (like giving the benefit of the doubt to pathological liars one too many times). In my work situation I had a feeling I was dealing with a sociopath (she mirrored me A LOT, which was the “tell” for me), but I STILL gave her the benefit of the doubt, so of course she got to my big boss and told a whopper about me that he believed.
My “conscious” inclination to be fair and give the benefit of the doubt and ignore my gut feeling of “danger” damaged me professionally. Do you think next time (there will always be a next time) I should disengage at the gut feeling stage rather than wait for the final confirmation? Waiting for the final confirmation is what makes me come out as a loser every time with Spaths because I have feelings of “fairness” and “justice” and I force myself to act on these before I act on my gut feelings of “run!!!”.
Do you think brain chemicals and electrical impulses are preventing people from leaving the Spath at the “gut feeling” stage that something is not right? You have decided not to be a slave to brain chemicals and electricity. Is one way to combat Spath’s intents also NOT to succumb to feel good brain chemicals?
Coming back to my work situation, is there any way I could have got out of my toxic work relationship with a skilled s’path without being damaged? I think that even if I had left when I first got a gut feeling, the S’path would have caused the same damage (e.g., “Madelaine left for no reason” or “She abandoned the project”, or “I am SO CONCERNED about Madelaine’s mental state. She just disappeared.”
Is there ANY good way to leave a relationship with a sociopath and end up unscathed in relationships with people who believe the sociopath? Is there any good timing between gut feelings and the act of leaving? Is there anything targets can say to prevent triangulation from occurring?
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I know this is a really strange question. “Me”, is your real name “Michael” and are you in your early 30’s? You don’t have to answer this, but you sound exactly like someone I know and I respect a lot. The Michael I know has a lot of really good qualities (humor and a tremendous ability to analyze what is really going on re power plays and motives, and translate this to bamboozled people like me). The person I know as Michael has had lots of diagnoses (which never really fit the clinical picture) including ADHD and Aspergers. I always suspected ASPD, but didn’t want to pry.
Even if you are not the “Michael” I know, I acknowledge that people with “crossed neural wiring” (my term) have a lot of potential goodness in them. I also acknowledge that the people who interact with sociopaths (especially vulnerable people) need to keep their guards up. Needing to keep up boundaries with sociopaths does not mean we cannot value them or appreciate the good things they can do. I learned a lot from Michael, but it was a matter of “trust but verify” (am I channeling Ronald Regaon?)
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My young son has a Corn Snake, and also a lizard. He likes reptiles. In fact, he told me to pet one of his lizards, as he has several, and it bit me. LOL. We both knew it was going to bite me because it was hissing, but a mother likes to make her children happy, you know ðŸ˜.
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Dear Me,
I very much like the site you have answering questions because it’s really down to earth, and the commenters here are down to earth, too. They seem like they really want to heal and get better unlike many of them on H.G. Tudor’s Site (Knowing The Narcissist) did. On that site, the “Greater Elite” Narcissist/Malignant Narcissist was very arrogant, haughty, and kept raving about how great he was and all the glamorous women he was in the throes of seducing, and how they were all after him; and, the commenters would tell them how they wanted to hug him and make him all better, love him until he was no longer a Sociopath, flirt heavily with him, carry on about how wonderful he was/is (even though no one has ever seen him), and tell him how his voice makes them melt (on his YouTube audio videos), …Before I saw this site here, I just thought all Sociopathic forum sites would be like Tudor’s site- sickening. But, now I see that it was just his.
Thank you for having a more Real To Life Site that does not make me want to vomit. I know you are still a Sociopath, but thank you for being a more “believable and balanced” one than that other Sociopath- or, whatever he is. Thanks for not acting so arrogant and conceited. It’s really a breath of fresh air, as ironic as it might sound.
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Exposing HG Tudor…
This is my comment about what I believe is the true nature of HG Tudor and his narcsite.com blog. I do not believe this blogger is the person they say they are, however, whoever it is, they are using the EXACT narcissistic techniques they describe in their life and aiming them at the entire world and anyone who reads his/her fraudster blog. Basically, that is to terrorize the reading public (many of whom are already the victims of a sociopath narcissist), scaring the public into wondering “am I a narc?” or “is someone I know maybe a narc and I don’t know for sure but I need to learn about it just in case?” Eeewwww…scary, huh?
Anything anyone fears or wonders about the narcissist is quickly and amply supplied by HG Tudor…for a small fee, of course. If you subscribe to his/her site, in just one day you’ll get bombarded with pithy blog entries that really amount to nothing more than terror-by-subscription and full of strained prose and grammatical errors. (HG Tudor is NOT the great writer some people say, rather it’s just the descriptive ramblings of a clever yet mentally ill person who must have been absent the week they taught punctuation at school.) Then you get daily multiple emails with links to his latest no-choice-but-self-publish books for which you can actually give him money. And now, not only are the books there for us in English, but are translated into Spanish and are up for sale! Come on. But enough about his style – the important thing is who this person is, why they are doing it, and what this means to the public at large.
I am not a licensed mental health worker in any way, however I do have an undergrad in Behavioral Science and yet-to-be-completed master’s in Clinical Psychology. I have never practiced and have no intention of doing so. I have also lived with a narcissist for 50+ years (and if you believe HG Tudor, my narc would be a “greater narcissist”). What I say is entirely based on my own opinion – take it or leave it. There’s no such thing as libel or slander for a cartoon character that plays games in public (that little mention is for HG because I know he’ll be reading this). Let me add that I am a strong believer that there is healing through learning everything that we can from professionals about the narc. It gives us the objectivity we need to look at our own narcs and eventually (yes, eventually for all of us) laugh at them for their monotony and desperate moves to inflict pain. We know you. We see you. We no longer respect you – and that means you can no longer hurt us. We have wings.
Is HG Tudor a narcissist? Maybe. Probably. But is HG Tudor the person “he” claims? (The pronoun “he” seems to be working for HG, so I’ll play that game.) The information on narcissists found all over the internet (by qualified professionals), including youtube.com and various other blog sites, has provided the curious with extensive and ample narc personality descriptions, as well as examples of what the narc does to hurt others – all of which, we learn, is completely predictable. It is precisely that predictability that gives HG Tudor away. Sorry, HG, but your cover is blown.
HG says he is a diagnosed narcissist, and describes his pedantic narc traits (likely stolen from the stack of 1990s “Psychology Today” magazines just at hand) and enthralls us with detailed and fabricated interactions (in stilted prose) with those unlucky enough to be in his orbit. All those characters, all the drama, the planning, the executing that we readers await with sweaty palms — await to find out exactly how he administers his next malevolent move. And the heroine always dies.
Boring.
Maybe HG is an underage, nerdy, genius-kid in his parent’s basement who cleverly figured out that the only remaining niche left in the learn-about-the-narcissist-online movement was the homegrown narc himself. And then monetize it. No matter what HG is, the monetizing element is the basis of his fun. Surely he finds the whole thing so delicious and amusing as he belly-laughs at us when he pauses long enough to double-check his online bank balance. Or, just for the fun of it, let us imagine HG is some low-level mental healthcare worker who got fired by his female boss for sexually abusing patients—and now he’s going to “show her” by virtually keying her car. Not as likely, but any banal scenario would work here.
Oh, and don’t forget that he’s doing it all just to help us. A narc who helps. How comforting.
How can we profile this character, this thing called HG? Is he the dashing and handsome prince whose touch turns everything in his world to gold and legions fawn just to be in his elevated presence and drink from his benevolent cup of wisdom? Or is it a hands-down-the-pants male, 35-45ish, college educated, frustrated in middle management and really angry he hasn’t climbed the next rung yet, sexually immature, and a clever, but not completely convincing, liar? Oh, and it’s easy enough to discern he’s into real estate, negotiating deals (the master manipulator, remember?), and enjoys the menu at Rico’s in Leeds. Leeds, right HG? Almost forgot the sports stuff: do you really play badminton, HG? Cavorting all over the court in little pirouettes and trying not to remember anything Mommy did to you?
That’s it. That’s HG. That’s enough. Who cares?
Don’t care.
Here it is in a nutshell: I think the entire human race should take HG’s own advice and go No Contact with all narcs. Thanks for the advice, HG.
I know it must hurt, HG, but the beast has been slain. It’s over, little bitty baby boy.
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Finally, someone who is not afraid to speak their mind concerning HG Tudor, the “invisible” Narcissist. My respect goes out to you for exposing him for what you think he is- a fraud, and a scammer.
If you are able to email me, please do. I have my own thoughts to share. I don’t mind publishing my thoughts, but was curious if you’d like to know what they are, first.
HG Tudor says he never lies in his blogging arena. Well, I’ve caught him in countless lies. But, then again, a Sociopath is a Sociopath is a Sociopath.
Anyway, thank you again for being one of the few rare ones (perhaps the only one) to stand up against him, and to not be blind to his scam.
lissa
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Yes, I understand. I am glad, though, that you are taking your time to be on here. It would be nice and beneficial, I think, if you could open up your own WordPress site Forum and then people would see that they have more choice than that other “one”. Just a thought! I know it is a lot to ask as it is your time! But, perhaps you might think about it! If you ever do, please make it known here so I might join.
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Tudor gives Sociopaths that biased stereotype, in my opinion. After reading his material and comments on his site, and his pompous arrogance, I thought all Sociopaths were Arrogant, Conceited, Pompous As*holes who were everything you are trying to explain that they are not. And, people are eating up everything he says like it’s the gospel due to his books, WordPress Blog, YouTube Audio Interviews, Twitter and Facebook.
I am second-guessing that he has people who help him write these books, ETC..because there is only so much time in a day to post so many articles each day to his blog, answer comments, answer Twitter and Facebook, keep coming out with books, due his “Audio Skype Consultations for $100 an hour” (even though he has no psychology degree), or answer “4 questions for $20 through email”, and still is in need of constant FUEL everyday, and has women chasing him all over town (so he implies), and himself, is a major womanizer.
Well, no more about that person. I am just glad there is someone else who shows a different side of the sociopath.
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Madeline,
My gut told me what I was dealing with two months into the relationship. Yours and “Me”s” observations are very thought provoking. It IS how we are chemically “wired”. As “Me” said, we empaths succumb to the dopamine in our brain. I know my guy was bad for me but I thought I could handle it. I made a decision based on how I’m wired to stay in the relationship…thought I could handle it. He made me feel so good about myself when I was with him I felt it was worth the risk. It was nice to be validated by another man. Fortunately I have enough self confidence that I am not totally crushed as many are on this site. I’m disappointed in him and in myself for trusting, but I’m going to be fine. -
Alaska, I am not an expert, so this is just another idle musing. One thing I read years ago was about defense mechanisms. I think this originated with Freud, or at least it was based on his theory of psychoanalysis.
There are about 2 dozen defense mechanisms. Some of these are well known (eg denial). The purpose of defense mechanisms is to protect the ego. So if you are told you are dying, you might not believe what the doctor is saying… this denial of a “fact” protects the person from the devastating truth that they are going to die. Others include intellectualization (seeing things as an intellectual puzzle rather than an emotionally catastrophic event), sublimation (swapping one activity for another one that is more socially acceptable) and regression (becoming more childlike in stressful situations).
All human beings have their favorite go-to defense mechanisms (I’m guessing maybe a favorite 3 or 4). One of the less well known defense mechanisms is “splitting”. It is thought that this defense mechanism is developed very early in a child’s life (the first 6 months or so) before the child can speak. It is also thought that people with a diagnosis of BPD commonly use splitting as a defense mechanism.
Splitting occurs because the infant can’t understand shades of gray. Either they are fed, and comforted and happy, or they are hungry, in pain and scared. The hungry, scared infant is not able to say to themselves, “Mom always feeds me sooner or later. I’m sure she will again. I will wait patiently until she comes to feed me or burp me to take this pain away”. An infant isn’t able to think these thoughts, so they only know two situations: one where mom is loving and good and the other where mom is denying and causing (or at least not fixing) pain. The infant experiences extreme rage at this mom.
If parenting is “good enough” the infant learns through experience that Mom can be both nurturing and denying. It learns that its hunger or pain will not go on forever (and neither will being full and comfortable). This is the nature of life.
The theory is that if Mom is not “good enough” the infant doesn’t learn that the hunger or fear will be fixed in a reasonable amount of time. The infant learns through its experiences that there are two moms: one is the loving, nurturing mom, the other is a mean, nasty person with no goodness at all. This “splitting” of one person into two types of Mom is a means by which the infant can protect itself from having to be totally dependent on someone who is not really dependable “enough”.
So this is how splitting becomes a defense mechanism. In adults, splitting is seen when a person has a propensity to see other people as all good or all bad. Someone can be a best friend and they can do no wrong. This belief is not realistic because no human is perfect. All is well until the friend disappoints the person. Immediately the person “splits” so that now their friend is hateful, totally despicable with no good qualities. Again this is probably not accurate either, so the friend is rejected and the friendship is probably lost because of splitting.
We all have defense mechanisms. I also think we probably all have a propensity to “split” to some extent as a generic human characteristic. People who have a large component of splitting have a hard time dealing with people because they go from thinking someone is fantastic to hating them in heartbeat. I’m not sure, but I’ve got a feeling that splitting might be one of the diagnostic criteria for BPD.
Splitting makes it difficult to maintain relationships. A friend either says something the person doesn’t want to hear, or doesn’t say something that the person wanted to hear. Then, to the person, the friend becomes the meanest, most spiteful person in the world.
This is another reason, I am speculating, why people with BPD are ‘easy pickings’ for sociopaths. First, it is easy to play the role of “good” person who provides love, support an validation. Then when it all goes bad, the sociopath KNOWS that the person will “over-react” and end up in a spluttering rage (like a 2 month old infant). It’s also likely that they know that mutual friends/family know that the person usually “over-reacts”, so they are likely to believe the “she is crazy” lies told by the sociopath.
So if someone has a defense mechanism of splitting, it takes lots of work and patience to learn to swap this into a more functional defense-mechanism, like intellectualization. Thus, slowly, the person recognizes that they are seeing a friend as idealized (better than they really are) and adjusts their expectations. When the friend lets them down (as they inevitably will even if they didn’t intend to let them down), the person makes a point of not automatically concluding this person is ALL bad and hateful.
Recognizing splitting as a defense mechanism helps to prevent relationship problems in general and those with sociopaths in particular.
This whole long spiel is related to your suggestion for “Me” to have his/her own website. I would not want “Me” to have a website. There are inbuilt constraints on what can be said on this website and anyone who violates the accepted norms can be blocked. I think the current situation where “Me” is open about who he/she is and is very generously answering our questions provides the right mix of freedom and boundaries.
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Madelaine,
Yes, I understand as the one who does have his own WordPress Blog Site deletes posts that it doesn’t like…such as ones that are not dynamically worshipping him- although he will add a few of the angry comments through just to show he is not partial, but I can speak from experience that he would delete most of my critical comments toward him, though they were not mean comments, and he would also place my comments in different areas so as to make it look like I was speaking to others, and not him, which would bring about quarreling from others and at the way he added some comments, but conveniently left out other parts of it that were supposed to go together. He was controlling the entire blog the way he wanted to and was masterminding arguments here and there by choosing which comments to let through, and which to conveniently delete.
Yes, I have read about Splitting and thank you for your help with that. I know that I do that sometimes without knowing it.
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I was not crushed because of a lack of self confidence, rather, I was crushed because it has been heartbreaking to find out that I cannot have more faith in humanity than to run into these kind that feign love simply for the sake of hurting others.
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Thanks for the reply,
I’m particularly interested in your wish to dispel the myth that sociopaths can have meaningful relationships. My experience is different. My relationship with my ex fiancé was the typical idealisation, devaluation and discard. It was littered with lies and tiny little comments which were meant to chip away at my confidence, self esteem and self worth. He gained control over my emotions very subtly. Looking back I have no idea what was real about him and what wasn’t.
Interestingly the exact time that the idealisation stopped was when I got diagnosed with a very serious illness. I was no longer the image of perfection and the person on the pedestal. Despite there still being big potential for us to manage this together my ex set about to not only sabotage the entire relationship, but his business too and ultimately me. Once he had destroyed me emotionally and financially he left, eight days prior to me starting chemo.
Would that be a normal response for a sociopath in that situation and would you class that as being a meaningful relationship?
We were living together for 3 years, had a wedding planned and already chosen our children’s names. -
Alaska, power corrupts and absolute power …. etc. I often wonder what kind of a**hole I would be if I had a lot of power. I hope I wouldn’t, but one never knows.
Me, can you please clear up something for me. I read that sociopaths are bored, and this is why they manipulate people. I’ve never really understood this. Do you have a deep emptiness inside you that makes you want to manipulate people (ie this “boredom” I read about), or is is just simple pragmatism of why pay for a meal if you can get someone to pay for you? I know this is probably a really hard question to answer, but what does it FEEL like to be you on a day to day basis?
The reason I ask is I’m still trying to process my work colleague’s actions. When I first met her I really liked and respected her. After a few weeks she seem too expert at everything. A couple of times she said things about work that sounded impressive, but I knew weren’t correct, so this was a hint that she was “faking” it, but it didn’t worry me because I understand this. Of course people want to look smarter and more able than other people, so lying to make yourself look good is understandable.
What really was a flag for me was watching her interact with other people socially. There she would tell minor lies. They didn’t make her look smarter or whatever, she would just relate an anecdote to one person, then repeat with a strange variation to another person the next day. She didn’t seem to care that the same people were hearing two different versions of the same story.
It was these meaningless, pointless lies that alerted me. What is the point of making up lies that don’t seem to have an apparent benefit? Why didn’t my s’path work colleague do a mental cost-benefit analysis and come up with the conclusion that her needless lies might end up with someone thinking she was a pathological liar? If she hadn’t been making up stupid unnecessarily lies all the time, I probably wouldn’t have figured out she was a sociopath for a long, long time, and she could have really taken me for ride.
Are you able to fill in the gaps about the “why” for some of the apparently pointless manipulations sociopaths do? Is it really because they are bored?
FYI the end of my story is positive. I ignored all the blaming emails directed at me from my big boss who had been told a story by my s’path work colleague. I just didn’t reply to them. A couple of days ago I got more project work from my big boss, so even if he still believes what she said (I don’t know what she told him) I guess his need for someone reliable to do the work was stronger than his outrage over whatever s’path told him. Of course I’m left with a bag of resentment and hurt that I am still processing, but at least I have my job back. I had been really worried.
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My ex is a sociopath. I read the 10 reasons why a sociopath is a loser.
This guy will not stop. He took my home, some of the contents. Just found out
he is worth over 1 million, and lives in low income housing in MA. He is a conniver, liar, and thinks he is above the law. You never know what is next.
His brother is also the same way. His brother is constantly lying in the courts, and the brothers flying monkeys are all over the place, and everyone
believes him. When in court, if you catch him in a lie, he has the smile, and smooths talks right thru it without a flinch. They, meaning both brothers have a sense of entitlement. My ex so matter where he goes starts havoc where cops are called, he gets kicked out, and so fourth. The ex enjoys the excitement of the confusion. My ex is so dangerous, you never know what to expect next. The brother dragged my name in the MA courts stating my ex gave me 250,000 to 500,000, and in the courts in CT stated that I stole the monies. I have protected myself, by notifying the FBI of every single incident, and hopefully they will get caught. -
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Dear Me, what kind of snake do you think you would like? I have a boa. I’ve had her for 10 years. I used to have another, but he died of cancer. A snake is a wonderful pet, as long as you can accept it for what it is and not expect it to behave like a cat or dog. This is where most people get put off.
I see your dilemma of wanting to open up to people but people being put off. In opening up, you are pretty much telling them that you are the kind of person who is likely to exploit them. Catch 22. It would put me on alert, too. I always wonder if there is a way to share your direct experience without the label – sociopath, borderline, etc. I dated a guy once for three years who told me upfront that he had “sociopathic tendencies.” I didn’t really know what that meant and got involved anyway. Three years later, he discarded me in the cruelest way. After that and a few other experiences like that, I learned what the word meant. If you feel that you will not necessarily treat the person like that, then I would not use the word “sociopath” to describe yourself. You could say you fight the tendency, or something like that. But in all honesty, knowing what I know, I would still be wary if I were the other person.
I think it’s really important to see a person (or even a pet) for what they are and know what they are and are not capable of. This can allow a person to navigate safely in the world. You can care about someone but not think it’s a good idea to get involved. It’s a lot harder IMO to trust too easily, find out you’ve been exploited, and then stay stuck in the anger, blame, and judgment phase, unable to move on. It is rather like getting bit by your pet snake and taking it personally rather than realizing it is a snake and taking precautions so you don’t get bit. That’s why it’s good to take your time to get to know someone and observe them in different settings. Granted, relationships are always a risk no matter what, and there will be some con artists who will just exploit others. But, to use the snake analogy, if you don’t like getting bit, better not get a snake for a pet. Or if you do get a snake, know that is is a snake and not a puppy.
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What I find interesting is that it shows him in a bad light. He always went out of his way to be the charmer and show everyone what a good guy he was. But he dumped me in a fit of rage just before I started my chemo and everyone of our friends knew how sick I was. My ex had been playing the role of the great guy who was looking after me. Surely by ditching me in the way that he did he kind of exposed himself for the uncaring sociopath that he his.i know that there isn’t, or wasn’t another woman but he inherited ALOT of money prior to dumping me. I only found this out after he left. Can money be another source of supply?
My gut feeling is that he was bored looking after me and once he had the money he could move onto ‘bigger and better’ things. What do you think? -
Madelaine,
I know this post was not for me to answer, but rather for ME to answer, but I just wanted to say that being a BPD, I have a deep,pervasive emptiness inside of me, but I have no desire at all to manipulate people. But,I know this question is not for BPD to answer, but for Sociopath to answer. I just wanted to say that. Thank you 😊.
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Me,
I have very intense feelings and can’t seem to buffer them. I wish I could! It hurts so bad. The happiness and passion feels like euphoria, BUT the sadness, anger, seeing loved ones in pain, hearing on the news about others being in terrible catastrophes makes me want to die because I feel it too much and leads me to anxiety and panic attacks.
They cannot find the right meds to help me due to side affects, so I’m left feeling raw and skinless to the outside world. It seriously makes me want to die, but I also don’t want to die because there are people here I still need to be here for, and help!
I wish I had just a bit of your …whatever you have…not all of it. No! But, just a bit! These intense emotions of love hurts like hell when you see those whom you love in pain or hurting in any way, but feel it even triple that of what even a normal person feels.
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I’m sorry. That has happened to me many times, and it makes me VERY 😤 ANGRY.
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Wow, Me, this is an answer I must ponder. I am going to think about it, and see what that might feel like. I was so deluded hearing all that bullsh*t from that Narc/Sociopath blog site who kept going on about how ‘perfectly perfect’ it is to be him, and how above everything and everyone he absolutely is, and how ‘everyone is his minion, appliance, ETC,’ and how he ‘Always Wins’.
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Hi, my name is Orion, I am 15 and I am a sociopath.
I want everyone to know that there is a large misconception about sociopaths. First of all, no one considers that if you are a sociopath you have a mental disorder and sometimes can’t control your actions. I used to be ashamed of who I am but I’ve come to terms with it.
I manipulate people, yes, but I don’t manipulate all people I meet. I think that manipulating people CAN be fun, but that doesn’t mean I manipulate people close to me, or every person I see on the street.
Also, there seems to be this belief that sociopaths can’t get hurt, or abused or manipulated. But, we can. By other sociopaths or just by bad people I’ve been abused, and manipulated, and here I am, a real life sociopath, ending up with all the blame.
I have a question for any other sociopaths on here though, how do you guys deal with boredom, because I’m trying to not do harmful things but sometimes (A lot of times) dangerous and harmful things are the only thing that fill that void. It’s hard to find anyone who willing talks about being a sociopath so I would appreciate it. Also, to other sociopaths, do you guys try to stay away from manipulating people? -
I appreciate this topic a lot. I too find human nature interesting.
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Wow. Thanks so much “Me”, Alaska and Orion for your comments. I don’t have a diagnosis of ASPD or BPD (that I know of) but I also have a pervasive emptiness inside of me. I thought that was just a normal part of being human. I assumed everyone had this to some degree, and that some people were simply better at avoiding acknowledging their emptiness than others.
I’ve always assumed that people who do “shopping” or take photos of their lunch (?) for Facebook are just distracting themselves in much the same way as I distract myself through work or reading. I figured that I have three-step process ( 1. emptiness feeling…. 2. recognizing the emptiness feeling… 3.doing something to avoid the emptiness feeling) while most people have a short-cut ( 1. emptiness feeling… 2. immediately doing something to distract from this feeling without having to acknowledge the feeling).
I’ve always been disgruntled that I don’t really have a passion for anything that would distract me big time. I’m not musical or artistic or spiritual and I don’t like traveling, shopping or gambling. I’m not a people person. I wouldn’t really appreciate a pet snake, especially feeding it (a mouse-shaped bump moving down the snake day by day?), but I do have a cat who lets me serve her (this is a cat owner in-joke). If I didn’t know any better, I would self-medicate with alcohol, but creating long term problems in this way is not a good cure for existential angst. I thought that I might become an eccentric cat-lady at some point.
Until then, I mainly I distract myself with prosocial things like working and volunteering, and ignore the existential emptiness which I see as simply the cost of being alive. I am glad that the lottery of life didn’t put me in some developing country where finding enough food takes up all my time so there is no room for existential angst.
“Me”, what went through my mind when I read what you wrote about what it felt like to be you, was “this is how lepers must feel. They have a condition, through no fault of their own, that stigmatizes them and scares people. The insoluble (?) problem is that dealing with lepers (or patients with Ebola) is that the people who interact with them ARE at risk”. It is a catch 22, as Stargazer said. Life isn’t fair.
“Me”, I also thought that you have a remarkable gift with words: “A whiff of joy from figuring out an equation. A needle of annoyance at breaking a stool. A slit of happiness, a cut of anger, a stab of placidity when playing my piano.” Super wow.
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10 Reasons why sociopaths really are losers (51
This list under the blog page on this site.
Let me know what you think. -
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I mirror, too, simply because I do not have a strong sense of identity…
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Do I know what, please?
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Hello,
I am new here, and I see discusion here going on in full speed, so sorry for barging in like that.
So I have couple of questions.
My ex husband is sociopath. I’ve found out that only couple of days ago.
Situation is complicated because we have 3 years old son together. When discard happened, he’ve discarded not only me, but his son too. He was acting like he adores him, but when he just threw us out of home with no remorse. So I went through all the typical phases. He even wanted to be friends to only hurt me more (telling how he find someone he love and etc).
So now after I know the true, I am thinking of some revenge ideas. Not like revenge. First I am trying to destroy his public image. I have contacted his family with evidence about his behaviour, proving that he is not a victim (he was planning to play one). All thanks to my idea, that recording phone conversations wouldn’t be so bad. He avoids exposive email, as it can be prove in court, so this I don’t have. I have already destroyed his public image in front of neigbours some time ago.
What more I can do? We live in different countries.
And another thing, I am playing poor victim in front of him. That he ruined me, and now I am very sick and not working and bla bla bla.
(And sorry for my english, as it is not native language for me). -
Yes, I do.
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I totally agree in that I wrote a heartfelt, tearful email to Donna, or whoever runs the show here, telling her my experience with a Sociopath, and made sure it was not too lengthy, but asked her to please send me an email back just letting me know she understood my pain for validation reasons…flash forward about two weeks later…NOTHING.
I mean, somewhere here on the forum, it says we can email her with our questions or experiences. I had no one else in whom to confide in, so I emailed her… no response. Not even a “Got It”… NOTHING.
I’ve gotten more help and responses from the Sociopath on this site, than I have from the actual Site Owner/Operator (or, whoever she is).
This is one of the reasons why I wanted to correspond with ME by email, initially… I felt he was at least being truthful as to who he was, and what he was. But, here is this other person, supposedly an “empathetic” soul, (the site owner) and she hasn’t the time of day for me.
So, I just did my own math, and decided to choose ME over someone who might be a real liar, feigning to be a caring person.
Splitting would be for me to come out and say: “Wow, what a B*tch this Donna must be for not giving me even just a morsel of a response back to my tearful email. What a real lying, heartless B*tch she must be!” But, DBT Skills have taught me to look at the middle ground”¦maybe she is just really busy, lately, squeezing fresh orange juice.
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This is strange that you say manipulating others is a hobby. I like to swim 🙃.
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Just break contact with him, forget him.
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“Me”, thank you for your answer. Alaska too.
I would like to forget him, but everything goes to child support. He likes to “play” with it. Sometimes he pays it, sometimes not. He still demonstrates power over me. So every time he “forgets” to pay child support, my actions follows. I have list of steps, and I follow it.
Strange, but I don’t feel danger from him. Should I? -
Another thing, how do you know that you are sociopath? I know that my ex was for sure. But can it be that I am too?
I remember when I first time heard word “empathy”. I didn’t understand its definition. I mean you should feel something when other people feels something??? The hell.. 😀 I was still young. And one girl from my class told me “there is something wrong with you. It’s like you don’t feel anything”. And actually I didn’t. Later I’ve learned to fake my emotions, to blend with others. As long as I remember it was always same… Faking that I care. When I started working, I was favorite person at work. Friend of everyone. I didn’t give a damn about anyone actually. But it was needed for my career.
Another area my love life. I had a lot of boyfriends. I always get exited, think that it is love, and I get this thrill of hunt. But as soon, as man falls in love with me, we have couple of sexual encounters, I feel bored with him, and soon just discard him, making look like it was his fault, and making it look like he dumped me. Of course, they always come begging, but I just don’t care about that.
I have couple of people I care. And I am not violent. Well, I was in a couple of fights, and it was fun. But I don’t fell aggresive. Just bored.
About my ex and revenge. Well, I adore my son. And I want everything what I can get from my ex FOR him. It is my goal at the moment. And I want to see my ex’s breaking point. But I was using wrong tactic, thinking that he is capable of human emotions, and I wanted to brake him emotionally. But he is sociopath. So that is not going to work.
Before you judge me, keep in mind, that he did many horrible things to me. He even tried to strangle me and shoot me couple of times in front of our child, and after he threw me out of our home with only bag with my clothes and crying child on my hands.
So taking all in to account, am I a sociopath? -
Me,
I liked your response to the 10 reasons sociopaths are losers. My ex-sociopath lover was very complex. I knew what I was dealing with early on with him but I still cared and loved him because I genuinely believe he doesn’t want to be like he is. He is a gifted writer as are you. I see his struggles in his writing. I was forced to go no contact with him as you have confirmed. He sent me an email since I put him on notice. It could all be manipulation on his part to draw me back in, but I chose to believe his pain and consider this closure. Here is what he wrote me:Go Away
I’ve been told that I do not belong and to go away so often that I believe I should. I have been told that I am no good, a loser, liar, and neer do well so I now understand that it too true. It’s odd to be something so much different than I ever wanted or strive to be in my life as a man and person. Sobering really even more saddening, but accepted and probably preordained in my own character now. A self defense mechanism to put off the inevitable and prevent more damage by saying words or actions that hurt those I love and care most for. Furthering their true knowledge of what I feel for them or even knowing the depth of love I feel.
I want you to know one thing intrinsic and absolute. You are loved by me and I thank you for the person who is so special. I want you to live with the spirit of adventure and goodness innate in yourself. I will miss my dear friend but know that I am not good for you nor want to burden you further. It is the best and only gift I can give. I will never speak an ill word about you or try to embarrass or cause you any trouble ever. Nor will I contact you further as your wish and know that it is best.
So yes I am going away from you, but I never want the feeling inside of me in the time spent with you to ever leave. I refuse to let that go away. You’ve made an indelible mark on my soul that I am grateful and wanted you to know you are one of the most important people I’ve ever had come through my life. I just wish it would have been sooner and I would have been better equipped to show you how truly incredible you truly are.
Good bye my friend, live and love -
I don’t think empathy is black-or-white, that either you have empathy for everyone or no one. Also, there are different reasons for lacking empathy besides sociopathy. PTSD and depression will affect a person’s ability to feel empathy – often because they cannot even feel it for themselves. It is not easy to diagnose someone as sociopathic when we all at times can manifest sociopathic traits. We can all be selfish. We can all be cruel. These things are not just characteristically sociopathic – they are within the range of all human experience for everyone. And there are times when it is necessary to act that way – for instance, to save our lives.
It is more empowering to live life from the inside out than the outside in. In other words, instead of focusing so much energy wondering what the other person’s diagnosis is, just ask yourself how you feel around that person. Do you feel happy? Diminished? Controlled? Shut down? Excited and energized? These are the best clues for whether a person is good for you or not. If they are not good for you, you can simply cut them out of our life (in sociopathic discard style) without looking back. You do not need to have empathy or compassion for someone who hurts you. But if you do (as most of us do), it’s okay to feel it but not act on it. Eventually, you can just direct your energy to other people who are healthier to be around. It’s not that you stop caring. It’s just that your time and energy goes elsewhere. It’s natural to have residual feelings for exes. But you can limit those feelings to “whenever the thought of them crosses your mind.” I still think about some of my exes from time to time with mixed feelings. There are one or two that I analyzed to death but could never figure out what they are about or why they hurt me so much. Oh well. I may give the memory a few minutes of my thoughts. But then I move on to other things.
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Stargazer, I can’t agree with you more. When I was younger, I wore my heart on my sleeve. I trusted almost everyone and usually ended up the worse for this in one way or another (people do eventually let people down… it is the nature of being human).
Over the years I learned about myself. I learned that I was a strong introvert. I learned that blindly believing sob stories and “doing unto others as you would have them do unto you” was hurting me. It was a very wise friend who told me to stop being so empathetic and trusting because it was making me constantly hurt and resentful. She was right. I discovered that friends who were “desperate” for something from me, quickly and easily found an alternative when I said “no”. They had been desperate for a quick fix (babysitting, lending money, proof reading documents), not in desperate and genuine need. They can do it themselves or pay for it themselves, they just would prefer to get it for free from someone.
So now I prefer not to be around people who see me for my free ride potential. I’m an introvert so NOT spending a lot of time with people in social situations is not a hardship. And Stargazer, you are right. The vast majority of people who ask for help they don’t need are NOT sociopaths.
There is a term called “moral hazard”. This refers to the human characteristic to take more of something if it is free BECAUSE it is free. I used to work for a company that gave out free pens. They were in a bowl and the public could help themselves. People would take handfuls of pens. They didn’t need that many pens; but the pens were free. These people wouldn’t have considered buying 10 pens…. they just took advantage of free stuff. Moral hazard is part of human nature, and it underpins lots of examples misuse of public office (like a politician using a travel allowance to go on holiday).
I think I see sociopaths on just an extreme end of the moral hazard continuum. When I am bored, I find something to do that I enjoy that does not hurt other people. When sociopaths are bored they find someone they can manipulate to enjoy the sense of power. As with all examples of moral hazard, they do this because they can. Whether they SHOULD is not factored into the equation. For neurotypical people, there is a limit to the extent we will indulge in moral hazard. We might take a handful of free pens we don’t need, but we stop at deliberately manipulating and hurting people. This is because we have been the victims of ruthless people and we know how it feels to be betrayed and used. This is why we feel empathy.
Empathy helps us to reign in our human tendency to moral hazard, but we still have to make a deliberate choice to not take more than our “fair share” (of anything: pens, attention, not doing chores) just because we can (which includes having someone around who is willing to do this for us). I believe that sociopaths are also able to choose not to indulge in moral hazard. They just find it harder because they don’t have empathy urging them to not do it.
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Madelaine, I will give a good example of living from the inside out that doesn’t have anything to do with sociopaths. I have a co-worker who is very mothering and giving, but she is always exhausted and has an “edge” to her personality. She seems constantly stressed out, overeats due to stress, and always has bags under her eyes. Now, to be clear, I am in no way judging or criticizing anyone who is overweight or stressed – God knows since I hit menopause I have both of those. So please don’t misunderstand me. She is the matriarch of her family. She takes care of her husband since he had a knee surgery and takes care of her daughter and grandchild frequently, even if she has to miss work. “Family first” is her motto, and she will sacrifice herself to do it. Again, I’m not criticizing people being close to their families. My point is that she has nearly lost sense of her own needs and her own happiness. Her motivation is solely about others. But it comes at a high expense to her own health and inner peace. She is not living from the inside out. She is living from the outside in – for other people. This is her reality. If you ask her on any given day how she is, she will say “tired” and then tell you what is going on with her husband and granddaughter. It’s like her “self” is barely there. If she took a moment to check in with herself to see how she feels about having to take care of everyone, she would realize that it is not serving her very well. But I think she would suffer a loss of identity and feel very selfish if she ever said “no” to anyone.
In any relationship, you need to pay attention to how you feel. Are your own needs getting met? Are you feeling energized by your relationships? They don’t need to be sociopaths in order for the answer to be no. I am a massage therapist (as one of my professions). I have some clients around whom I feel energized. I could work on them for hours and not feel tired. ON the other hand, I have clients whom I feel drained around. There is no explicable reason for this. They are all good people. It’s just some people drain my energy and some replenish it. Some do both – it’s about 50-50. It doesn’t matter that I love them all. Being aware of how I feel around each person allows me to make choices. I can choose the people and situations that energize me. I remember I had to fire a massage client years ago because she was a constant drain of my energy. She overstepped her boundaries all the time, and I was always having to have “conversations” with her about her behaviors. Never mind that she was my most regular client and her business paid a lot of my bills.
When you start thinking in terms of “energy”, you can make better choices. The choices may be different than what seems obvious. You might give up a higher paying job because it drains your energy. And you might hang out with someone who doesn’t fit your picture of a relationship because he/she energizes you. It’s all about energy. Money are feelings are a form of energy. So if being around someone is making you feel bad or draining you financially, it may be a sign to back off from them.
Notice I say “if BEING AROUND THEM” makes you feel a certain way…..I didn’t say “if THEY make you feel”… This is because when you say someone “makes” you feel a certain way, you give your power to that person to control how you feel. Believe it or not, just changing your language when describing a situation can actually life your energy.
I guess that’s enough for now. 🙂
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I meant to say “lift” your energy in that last statement.
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Yes, but if someone mentions that they are a Sadist Sociopath, then I tend to think that person might be considered “a bad person”, with all due respect.
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The sociopath/narcissist I am involved with is insulted to be called such a thing although his actions fit the descriptions almost exactly. I don’t believe he truly realizes his actions fit this personality. What are your thoughts on this?
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I’m a psychopath (diagnosed), so that makes me a little different from “me”. I’m a primary psychopath.
What caused you to become that way, “me”? Sociopaths are made, they say, so what made you?
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Thank you for sharing your insides.
I met him and right away I recognized: he was a sociopath.I knew the traits, I re-read them again. I don’t know why I let this to continue. Maybe I wanted to know who outplays who.
He was a fraud, a lie. Everything was a lie. Everything on top of the lie was a lie. I found out pretty much everything about him. Maybe this is what was entertaining for him, thrilling, nobody else did that before. I questioned everything and then confronted him about his lies with proofs. He said “I like it about you. You don’t let me get off the hook. Nobody else did that. I feel like you care”
He said was divorced and single. I proved him that was a lie-he had been living with a young girl for at least 2 years. Still living. (Said she is moving out, probably a lie too)
My question: can he really feel being in love?
He acts and says things that I would expect a person who cares to say, something I would say to a person I care about.
He had forgiven me all the nasty angry things I ever told him or done, how I embarrassed him in front of other women I found out he dated or wrote to while he “was” with me (or did he forgive?)
He would come back every time after every fight begging not to leave him. Is it because he felt something he never felt before? Or is it part of the game? His way of manipulating to win?
I tried to cut the strings few times. Why would he not just leave it alone? Switch to another woman?
Can it be true that he felt something or is it just because it is thrilling and exciting?
He says he is drained and does not want to fight, he says he feels sick after each fight and can’t stand to see me upset or disappointed.
He says I am the only woman he finally felt feelings for which never happened and honestly, does act this way now.
Can it least those feelings be sincere? Or is he playing them? Or is he confused about it? Is it just a new thrill that he does not want to let go…for now…until he gets bored?
Please shed some light on it -
Can a sociopath suspect that he is a sociopath?
I once told him that.
He asked “do you think I am sick?”
Or once he admitted “I am not sure if I am sick…I am not sure why I do that-I break people I don’t know why. I don’t do anything bad, I just move on…”(lack of empathy)or “I don’t know why I did that-maybe you are right, I feel like I need attention. And I do stupid thing. I don’t even care what others think of that”
So now you are diagnosed, now what?
It is not curable. There is no treatment.
How does it help that you are diagnosed? -
Sorry for spamming guys, but few more things I want to know:
1. Physical closeness with a person you think you care about..
Precisely sex life. How is it? Any feelings? How often? Do you even feel you need it as much as “normal” person? Do you connect emotions towards a person with wanting to have sex with that person?
Can you even connect emotionally?2. How to get out of the relationship from a sociopath “in love”?
Blocking does not help: he knows where I live and calls from different numbers.
Is there is a way of “talking out of this”? Thinning the connection until its gone? Seems like if I text to him he gives hopes, promises and “builds” his hopes and plans on future relationship
If I reject him-the obsession is even more intense and he is trying to “win back”.
Is there a way of “weaning him out” with least possible consequences?3. Now that I know who is that other woman, and I know who he is and I have proof (cheating, lying, talking about her like she is noone, talking to other women in a sexual way besides me and this girl he is using to live with.) He literally told me (wrote in sms) “I have been living with her because it is convenient for me. I don’t care about her, she is noone”. And only because I found out, otherwise before that he was saying he was single living alone.
I have all as proof in his texts. Everything.
Should I warn her. Should I show her that?
She may be just as well be miserable and maybe that could help her to realize its not her fault what happening? -
anoli777, I’m going to be a little bit cruel here.
Sociopaths can’t be cured. They are born this way. This is not a disease. It’s a condition. Lets say it’s like being born without hand. Not like you gonna grow it, if you really really wish for…
What he is doing now, he is playing with you. And please don’t tell me, that you are not enjoying it. You want to believe that you are special, that you are going to change him, that you will be the one to “save” him. But you are not. I was dating 4 guys at the same time. Living with one. And I can tell you one thing. It is so easy to manipulate people like you. You make little drama “you are the one, how can you doubt me, this is the first time I am feeling this way, you are special to me, because none did that and this before….”. And after, you can even make that person feel guilty… You just have to use word “love”. Why do you always believe everything you hear?
That man of yours was lying about many things. Why do you think he can’t lie about his feelings?
Once again, I don’t want to be cruel, but you have to wake up. He is just spinning you in emotional carousel, but you are the only one getting more and more dizzy… -
Muminuke
This is just what I need to hear.
Yes I know this. And yes I want to believe it. He knows exactly what I need. And again I know it. (thats why I am here) No I don’t believe that I am going to change him…but yes, deep down inside I wish to believe that at least he had feelings. Some feelings.For my own ego.
And like any normal person, though aware and alert, I still go back to my “normal persons feelings”-trust.
The reason I am here asking this question: because I talked to few women he dated at different times and none said he said anything about love or feelings. I am just curious thats all
I can’t say I believe him. But I also can’t say I don’t want to believe him. its a vicious cycle.
Do sociopaths ever get hurt?
What makes them feel sorry for themselves? There must be something…Or is there nothing?
***honestly…not the first time I met a sociopath..but this is the worst time. I thought I could outplay him. But what I did not realize: I don’t have ability not to feel anything like he does and I don’t enjoy the game like he does. its sickening.
But why do we miss it? This rollercoaster of emotions? its bad, bad , bad and yet I find it that I am missing that high some times. -
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What about sociopaths? Do they feel loved?
Is that what they are after?
Or is it pure pleasure of manipulation and control? -
Belongs. Is it primary or secondary. If it’s changes in brain structure, then pretty much you are lost case.
And under ASPD falls many cases. First you have to find a reason to be able to answer if you can do something about that. -
Why do you people keep talking about “love”? You give some chemical reaction inside your brain some mysterious name and power… Psychopaths naturally have less dopamine inside their brain (about 10 times). There are a lot of studies about reasons behind that. But it doesn’t change the fact. So naturally they are trying to increase it. So this is why most of the times you have this pattern “Idealize -> devalue -> discard”. They see new toy, dopamine level increases (Idealize), then level rapidly decreasing, sociopath goes angry, he doesn’t know what’s going on, so he blames “victim” (devalue), and final stage, they think that they have to “punish” victim, for that she has done (discard). What is happening to you anoli, you are playing his game with him, so his dopamine levels stays increased. So he goes along with you. But probably you will never ever gonna be able to have stable relationship with him. Are you ready for that? Because believe me, things can get really violent…
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Muminuke,
Good explanation. Its addiction. I give him that by triggering his reactions certain way, he gets excited, likes the feeling, cars it “love”. I get it.
(he even mentioned “I am addicted to you” phrase)Thank you
Don’t get angry 🙂 I am curious
I know I don’t need a relationship with him. I knew it from the second date.
I don’t know why I am curious. You are right, I am playing his game. It scares me because I know that it can be dangerous. And it thrills me to see how I can be in control of what he thinks he is in control.
But he has been living with the same young girl for at lat two years.While seeing, playing with other women.
What makes him stay with that girl?I just want to get inside his brain to understand how it works. Don’t get upset or angry please.
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I am going through many of the same emotions as you. anoli. I went no contact with mine over two weeks ago. He has emailed me once, a very nice letter actually, promised to leave me alone, do nothing to hurt me, and thus far has respected my wishes.
I don’t know if he had/has other women when he was with me or not. We were still in the honeymoon phase I guess. I am having a hard time with closure because I genuinely loved this man. I knew he was more than likely ASPD and I actually accepted it. We never directly discussed that possibility. I have read on Quora answers to questions directed to those with ASPD from others and it’s been very helpful. Some say they do bond with certain people..Maybe 2-3 in a lifetime. Everyone who has ASPD are not the same, just as neurotypicals are not. Some are caught up in the manipulation and it seems others just choose to be alone. So, in answer to your questions”¦.many on this site have been hurt deeply by those with ASPD. Will you or I really know how our ASPD feels about us? I don’t think so. Mine made me feel like I was “the one”. He wanted to marry me. He wrote me the most beautiful poetry. He wrote me letters about himself. Some truthful, some beautiful fiction. It’s tough because he always made me feel special. Was it manipulation or true feelings of a bond, I don’t know. My gut instinct told me to end ties, so I did. It is an addiction. I struggle daily.We all want to think we are “the one”
Karen
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This is true!
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Oh, no, I am not planning to get angry 🙂
To answer your question, why is he living with her. I can tell you my example. I was living with a guy for 3 years. I was dating other people at the same time. He didn’t know (atleast he pretended). To some guys I was promising that I will leave my boyfriend. Why I didn’t. Because I needed someone to cook for me, clean my home, go to the store and etc. He was normal. He never asked me many questions.
And it’s not like people with ASPD are evil in general. It is natural, that other people can get hurt, because it is hard to love someone, who doesn’t love you back. But it’s not like you can control it.
Why I say to be careful. With ASPD you need stronger triggers to get emotional response, then normal. And during the time, you have to increase “dose”, to get the same response. If at the begining to get some emotions good fight is enough with some screaming, later…… Let me give you example. I was with secondary sociopath for 3 years. If at the beginning he was just breaking stuff, at the end of second year it was already knives and guns involved. I am not even talking about emotional abuse, that gets so bizzare and twisted, that for someone normal it would be really hard to imagine. He can easily push you to suicide, just because he lacks strong emotions. And it is not because he is evil. Quite hard to explain. -
My understanding is that sociopaths can be resocialized. What you do is a conscious decision, no?
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My mother is empathic, but my father is a psychopath. So is my brother, and I believe my sister too. Everyone has managed to stay non-violent and out of jail.
My childhood was… interesting. But it was good. I had a lot of fun growing up.
Maybe if you grew up in my family you’d of become more empathic instead of learning sociopathy. I mean, if excess empathy drove you away, a lack of empathy may have driven you toward it.
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I’m a psychopath. Primary type.
My wife says she loves me all the time.
I can’t help but distrust her. I don’t know what “love” feels like for her — and I can never be sure of her true intentions. It doesn’t feel like much of anything when she says it to me. To the extent that I think she is telling the truth, it is reassuring of my ownership and control.
When I say “love”, I’m saying “I desire to own”. When I say it, it is a point of fact.
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But see, you’ve now displayed your own arrogance. We’re all arrogant to a certain extent, aren’t we?
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Maybe you are. Maybe you are not. You are young, and seem to have been bullied, and so you are feeling numb. Maybe this feeling could mess up your moral code enough to land you in sociopath territory in the future. I suggest not letting it.
Sociopaths (pathological personalities that are made) are not happy people. They’re not “cool”. They do what they please, and they hurt others, and they pretend it makes them happy. But inside they are a mess of contradictions and pain.
Look above at what “Me” said in return to the 10 reasons sociopaths are losers list. Look at the contradictions to the other things he has said. He is not happy, he is here much like you are, even with his diagnosis, for validation of his lifestyle. He is in pain because his actions do not fit his biology.
No offense intended there, Me. Just trying to steer this kid away from future pain.
So, Orion, just smile, clear your mind and your heart, and go hold a puppy/kitty.
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Several people who identified themselves as sociopaths or psychopaths have joined the conversation here. Readers are asking questions, which these individuals are answering. So there seems to be some benefit.
To those of you who have identified yourselves as disordered: Please post only on this forum thread. Comments on other forum threads or blog posts will be deleted.
Reminder: Comments will be allowed as long as they do not attack any member of the community and are not offensive. If the rules are violated this thread will be shut down.
Readers: If you are triggered by this conversation please do not visit this thread.
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I can give a little anecdotal information about psychopaths on the the same points.
On your first point: I’ve done all those things, and more. I don’t think I’m a bad person though. I’m actually a very good, friendly person. I think as long as a psychopath stays non-violent I wouldn’t be too worried about them. They’re just living their life.
On the second: I want people to like me. Of course I do. I wouldn’t be emotionally hurt if they didn’t, but people liking me is useful. I have dropped people out of my life on a whim, even though we’ve been “friends” for decades, without a care. They deserved it though. Some people you’re better off not knowing.
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Absolutely. Those guys seem to love playing people.
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10-4, Donna. Thank you. And thanks also to “Me” for creating this thread.
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In my experience (with pathological personalities) they do trip up. But they usually fill in the holes so deftly that it seems like they had not.
The really good ones use a way of lying that is to not lie — in terms of not telling wild untruths. They frame the truth by omission, or by perspective (like an editorial writer), in such a way as to build a version of reality that is both verifiable by its own rules, and yet none the less false. These untruths are the ones with real power.
Such people lead the much of the public around, let alone single targeted individuals. They will decide everything for you, and you will believe their will is your earnest desire and pleasure.
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Smart woman!
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I want to thank all of you: for sharing stories, for the insights to pick your brains.
Muminuke, your explanations really really helped me to stay focused, to listen to my gut feelings and moreover not to be angry with him.
He showed up yesterday, flowers and promises (mind him-he is married for 6 years and I had all the proof finally that he can’t deny..but of course he promises it is over and she is moving out)
But I was already prepared for anything he would tell me thanks to that forum. I filtered anything and stayed focused on the lies not the pretty things. When I tried to leave the car he crabbed my hair-not much to hurt me (yet), but probably trying to get a reaction (because I was so calm and emotionless with him, not feeding his drama). I did not show fear, or anger. But I also knew there is no mistake in what he was-if I happened to stay all that would only escalate.I asked him “do you ever feel ashamed?” He smiled and stared. Seriously, I could read that he does not. He does not know what it feels like. He could not answer.
Winter, yes it is hard. The most painful part is that you want all of that to be true and real. You want all the good things, not the bad ones. It has been short relationship, but intense. I know I will be fine. But the trust issue that I already had before now even worse.
You know what is the worse part?
I am ashamed to admit, but deep somewhere I miss him. I am questioning: am I even normal myself that all that roller coaster of emotions I had with him is so addictive…Can I even build a relationship with “normal” perfectly boring guy. -
Amazing answer, ppath. These are things I have been trying to tell others, and explain, but you said it perfectly about how they do this sort of lying.
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Another excellent response. I wish I could explain things so clearly as you do, ppath.
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These posts stopped in 2017. Why is there no more ongoing discussion. I think this is all very interesting. It is especially fascinating having “Me”, here, to help us understand things better concerning Cluster B Personality Disorders, or namely, Sociopathy. You still around, “Me”?
lissa
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Hi Me,
are you still here? I recently posted about being married to someone very similar to you. It is uncanny how the characteristics line up. He is a high functioning sociopath and so unlike the stereotypical bad guy psycho. He is for all intents and purposes a really nice guy. But he has very little (shallow affect) love, empathy, trust and fear. Also no remorse. He triggers over certain issues and becomes frighteningly angry but never violent. He sounds like a hoot, right? He actually is. He laughs easily, is happy, focused, highly intelligent, incredible at reading people and using that to his advantage (manipulation yes but not in an evil way. More like we all do to get things to functions more smoothly. Except he excels beyond the average), does not lie, cheat or steal. He has a code of ethics which basically boils down to the golden rule. However, his sense of justice is often outside of what others might agree with. If he perceives something to be unjust, then it is. And no one else will convince him otherwise. Those people deserve whatever they get dealt, either by him or by others.
He only discovered (through my suggestion) about a year ago that he might be on the ASPD spectrum. Family history, genetics and upbringing came to light and the red flags were everywhere. And he finally had answers as to why his inner landscape seemed so different to that of others. He felt like he had been hiding his real self for decades. His greatest (and most crushing) revelation was that he never loved me the way I loved him. I am still trying to come to grips with that. It simply hurts like hell. But there was no deception, he just didn’t know what was “wrong” with him.
My suspicion is that there are many many people out there like you and my husband. For lack of better terms, I have used “high functioning sociopath” but really I think it is more someone with many ASPD characteristics. Still a sociopath in the emotional deficiency sense but not compulsive, sexually deviant or criminal. To society, they look like highly successful people, often found in positions of power or in solitary type roles. To their families, they present perhaps a slightly less successful interpersonal side.I am so glad you opened up about “the others” out there. There are many of us who are the parents, spouses or even children of the high functioning sociopath. You are still challenging to neurotypicals but you are also loved beyond measure even if it isn’t something you can return in quite the same way.
I still feel like I am trying to find my group out there, the people like me who are touched by a wonderful ASPD in their life. I have had so many joys with this man and so many awful soul sucking (think dementor) moments too.
I would love to ask you more questions but will leave it at this for now.
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A sociopath even writing here is degrading. Apart from your childhood you cannot hope to even the slightest percent of change now. As all sufferers know only the people around the sociopath can hope for cure to the damage done. You cannot be cured. I don’t blame you as you may have inherited this dreadful gene but in all respect leave those who suffer to try to repair. Your presence does not help and sadly you can never be trusted.
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Hello everyone
What you mean by sociopath ?
i can’t understand the actual mean of sociopath.
best regards
steve smith -
Steve, go to the red header bar at the top and click on the heading “Beware the sociopath.” That’ll tell you.
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Don,
you’re missing the point. “Me” is trying to explain the other side of the story. The one about the higher functioning ASPD’s out there who are not trying to hurt anyone around them. They are humans born on a spectrum, just like us all. By far most hurt and trauma in our relationships are caused by neuro-normal people. It isn’t a given that because someone has ASPD characteristics that they will be hurtful. They are different and present a different challenge in a relationship to their closest family members. I understand than most here on lovefraud have been very hurt. This is a site for support. But to chose not to listen to what it is like to live inside the mind of a person with diminished capacity for empathy and love is not helpful when trying to gain the bigger picture. Like it or not, there are many children out there born every day with either the potential for ASPD or with the traits already hardwired in their genetics. How we raise them and how we see their function in society is a topic that needs to be explored. These people can also occupy roles empaths have a hard time with. Catching child pornography posters or people who torture animals (sifting through disturbing images online), catching hard core criminals or working with the armed forces (snipers?) are all rather abhorrent to me. But someone has to do it. Why not someone who is not affected by it?
I’ve first hand known people with ASPD characteristics. Two have serious problems and the third does not. Perhaps a better understanding and knowing what to look for in the young child would have made all three better able to to cope in society and possibly given them a place to be accepted in an otherwise “normal” environment. -
Hello ME,
I just found your post here and hopefully you will still be checking this. You said your mom was overly attentive and you found her irritating. Were you resentful because she wasn’t really attentive or did I misunderstand you? -
I found this thread disturbing. I dont know how this is therapeutic or educational.
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Traumatized,
Perhaps find another thread or forum that better suits you?
lissa
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I remember this forum post. There are a few self-proclaimed sociopaths on here sharing their experiences, for better or for worse. One way to look at these posts is as a mirror. How are you reacting? Are you feeling fear, anger, or disgust? Are you feeling drawn to the sociopath? This could be a reflection of unresolved issues. Remember when reading that you have boundaries and can always exercise them. If you are feeling drawn to the sociopath, you can notice you are drawn in, but you don’t need to respond. You can use the feelings to process your unresolved issues. What does the addiction feel like? What does it need or want? What information is it giving you?
For me, I have a guard up (which I believe is healthy) telling me not to betray too much emotion with them, because they are probably not to be trusted with my feelings. But then, I’m like this anyway on the internet for the most part, because internet relationships are different from in-person ones. I stand by what I said last year, that we all have this ability to back away from someone and just observe them, or even cut them off energetically. We are not obligated to empathize with everyone we meet. It’s okay to be guarded. You don’t need to try to empathize with the sociopath, because you probably won’t be able to.
I came to this site over 10 years ago now. For the first several years, I was fascinated learning about sociopaths. I had been played by one and it was very painful, so I wanted to learn everything I could about them. After so many years, I just lost the fascination. I may find some of them intelligent and even introspective to the extent they are able to be. But I notice I’m just not that interested in engaging them anymore. I know there is no win-win there. I don’t feel angry or disgusted. I think I’m just walking down a different street.
But I will admit that about 10 months ago, I met a sociopathic contractor. I didn’t know he was a sociopath, of course. He was very charming and convincing. I liked him right away, more than I should have, given the professional nature of our relationship. I immediately recognized this as a red flag and watched my emotions carefully – it was pretty interesting how I was getting drawn in by this guy. But I was also able to pull back because I felt ungrounded. When all the dust settled, he turned out to be an extreme con artist with a long history of conning unsuspecting homeowners. I got out of it without too much financial or emotional loss. I was one of the lucky ones. It could have been much worse.
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Stargazer,
Excellent that you are able to spot them!
lissa
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Thank ou stargazer for the thoughtful response. Yes it makes me feel very fearful. I know I am relatively new to recovery so maybe that is why. I think reading this thread has done me more harm than good. Maybe I should just stick to the articles at least for the time being.
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I’m sorry you are being triggered, traumatized41. There was a time when it would have been the same for me. It’s probably good to stay off threads where sociopaths are posting. I doubt they are even still around. They get bored easily. Please take good care of yourself in whatever way you need to.
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