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Hi all,
I’m new to this forum. I’ve been married to a covert narc/sociopath for 24+ years. I filed for divorce *finally* last year. I agreed (against my better judgement) to try mediation, because of course he convinced me it would be amicable, “we don’t need any lawyers”, etc… We do each now have a consulting attorney, though, but mediation is going horribly.Right as we started the mediation process, we received lists of all of the financial documents we would need to provide to start the formal financial discovery process. He told me, “This should be pretty easy, it’s not like I have any hidden accounts or anything…” This immediately raised a red flag to me at the time, but I couldn’t quite articulate why. He has repeated this to me on two other separate occasions. I know narcs/sociopaths often “tell on themselves”, like accusing you of cheating, when they are of course the one cheating (he did this repeatedly, too).
While I have always been the one in charge of all of the finances and bill paying, I have had my suspicions over the last year or two that he must have some hidden money somewhere, some hidden account, to have funded all of his chronic cheating over our entire marriage. He has always traveled extensively overseas as well. Just curious if anyone else sees a red flag in this statement of his, or if I’m being overly suspicious. I am definitely considering hiring a forensic accountant.
Any thoughts appreciated. Thanks. 🙂
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Hi Chumpnomore,
You already know you can’t trust him, he is making all the decisions on this too.
I have a friend in the same situation who went along with everything he wanted just so she could get out quick. If its going wrong there’s a reason. He must have hidden money before so why not now?
You are not safe until the final piece of the jigsaw puzzle is in place, I don’t know USA laws but my friend got a lawyer who made sure she got half of everything and he has to pay her an amount of money every month to keep her in the same lifestyle she was used to. He had money stashed away.
I would say go with your instinct, get a lawyer and if he isn’t hiding anything at least you will know for sure that you wasn’t duped one final time. -
Yes I’m sure he is hiding money. Sociopathic people who lie, cheat, steal etc without remorse are always hiding money or dishonest with money. Lack of moral integrity includes lack of financial integrity.
The problem is that lawyers and forensic accountants and the legal discovery process costs a LOT of money too. So you have to weigh your legal costs against the odds of discovering and recovering his hidden money.
Another factor to consider is how sociopathic and how devious he is. You might go through all this expense and stress to try to trace the hidden money but if he is sociopathic enough he will just move the money abroad or spend all the money or figure out some other devious way that you’ll never recover the money.
And another factor to consider is how dangerous and violent he might be. In extreme cases a sociopath can retaliate against you in other ways to punish you for going after “his” money. So keep your safety in mind in your considerations of your strategy.
So not saying that it’s not worth it to go through the legal process to try to find the money. It depends on the individual circumstances of your case whether the effort is worth it and yes it is possible that you can find and recover the hidden money. But just saying to keep all these other factors in mind and carefully consider them in your decisions about strategy.
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Hello, YES, sociopaths often drop hints of what they are really doing. My ex did this all the time. In divorce court part of the paperwork is to list out all financial info…so you need to make sure he is not withholding info, THis is against the court “divorce rules”. So you could simply tell the court that you believe he is hiding finances.
If your gut tells you to hire alway vs mediation then do it. My ex attempted to get me to go this route but I saw he was manipulating the judge with these same little comments so I went with a lawyer.
If you go with a lawyer instead of mediation then make sure you do your research to find a lawyer that understands domestic abuse & spouses that are master manipulators like your ex Not all lawyers get this AND you will find a lot of lawyers ARE themselves disordered individuals that will mind screw you out of money/fees. SO beware. Ask around town who is a “good lawyer”.
There are books on “Finacially divorcing” so check your libraray & also books stores in the “Divorce” section of the store.
Your divorce settlement IS your future.
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Jan yes I agree it’s very hard to find a good lawyer. A lot of them will take advantage of you by billing excessive hours and fees. And a lot of them don’t understand manipulation and what the sociopath is capable of.
Lawyers think everything can be resolved in court. But guess what to the sociopath court is just another opportunity to manipulate and abuse you. They can lie under oath, bribe witnesses, intimidate witnesses, hide evidence, destroy evidence, move money abroad, squander money so they are judgment proof etc. And the sociopath will enjoy racking up your legal fees and your stress during it all.
Again not to say you shouldn’t stand up for your legal rights. You should definitely get a good lawyer and get advice on what your options are. Just keep all the pitfalls in mind in your decision.
Also look at the money amount that is at stake. For example if your lawyer estimates that it will take $30,000 in legal/accounting fees to go after the hidden money, and you think he is only hiding maybe $10,000, then that is not worth it. But if you think he is hiding $1 million then of course it is worth it to spend a lot to try to find it.
So again get a good lawyer to give you good legal advice on your options but just keep in mind the special circumstances dealing with a sociopath. The sociopath will enjoy the fight, he will rack up your legal fees, he will not follow court rules, he may even win the case, he may never pay anything, and he may even retaliate against you outside the law.
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chumpnomore – Mediation generally doesn’t work with sociopaths. Mediation only works with people who are willing to be reasonable and come to an agreement. That’s not a sociopath.
And yes, I agree that he probably hid money. Your instincts are telling you that.
But there is an important decision to make – how much fighting are you willing to engage in? Of course you should get what you deserve, but you need to weigh that against continued engagement with him. The sooner you can cut all ties, the faster you can heal.
BTW, if there are assets, I recommend you take your share in a lump sum, with a firm date as to when you should receive it. Forget alimony – it will be difficult to collect, and keeps you tied to him.
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No contact is the best advice! Hire a lawyer and let them handle it. They completely tell on themselves. Look back over your text messages, emails and remembrances of conversations. Listen to your gut and research. Pay $20 to run a background report. It w on’t contain everything you need to know. Go to each counties tax assessor and even whitepages.com to look up places where he frequents. You may find hidden properties and relationships that you don’t know about. Do this with a friend or counselor present so you are not triggered. and, do it in small amounts. Doing your own research saves you money on lawyer and PI fees. Plus you can channel your energy away from the negative troubles created by trying to negotiate with a narcissist. ANy energy he can receive from you good or bad just feeds his supply. I wish I had listened to others that extreme no contact is the way to go.
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As a private investigator, I have seen this scenario played out many times. The guilty party inadvertently tips their hand. The unfaithful partner blurts out, “It’s not as if I cheated on you!”; the sexual abuser insists, “Don’t make it sound like I’m some kind of pervert!”; or, in this instance, the person concealing marital assets exclaims, “It’s not like I have any hidden accounts!”
Our agency has, over the past 20 years, assisted in the recovery of literally millions of dollars on behalf of clients who were being scammed by their own spouses. This can take the form of secret bank accounts, brokerage accounts, real estate and other liquid and solid assets. For questions about Financial Asset Searches, feel free to contact us at http://www.MillenniumGroup2001.com
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They TOTALLY tell on themselves! I finally told the soon-to-be-ex, “Keep talking…you’re revealing more and more about yourself.” It has been WILD. I feel like I’ve been gutted. I have to choose when I allow myself to grieve because the grief is so intense I feel devoured. All ate up. It’s exhausting. He accuses me of everything he is doing. He texts things like, “I guess you want to make me suffer a little while longer.” Or, “I want my sign back unless you’ve destroyed it in some kind of psychotic vengeful rage!” He used to think I was making fun of him to my closest friend. I don’t even do that! Why would I make fun of the man I married?! He freaks out if I don’t respond quickly enough to his texts. He accuses me of purposefully ignoring him even though I’m working with clients or busy with our son’s many activities. Then when I DO respond, he punishes me by ignoring my texts, even when it has to do with arranging pick up or drop off with our child. He has text my mother, brothers and closest friend that I’m “sick and delusional”, that “Something dark has gotten ahold of her” and acts like he’s some kind of stand-up guy, demanding, “When is anyone else gonna care enough to step in?” All the while, I have been open-hearted and trying to help him with his depression…making doctor appointments, scheduling and paying for counseling, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic…ANYTHING to help lift his constant injuries, illness and surgeries. I have been his caregiver for over 10 years and I am tapped out. He accused me of “having NO empathy or compassion” even though I have literally wiped his rear end while nursing him back to health after his hip replacement. Then back surgery. Then another hip replacement. All before he was 50 years old. So yes, they reveal their hand if you listen and finally realize IT’S NOT YOU. NOTHING IS WRONG WITH YOU. I spent years asking myself what was wrong with me? Trying to make myself better, more patient, more understanding, more loving. Blech. It legit makes me sick. The physical impact of psychological abuse needs to be documented. Starting with me.
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Hi mamapele – I see that you have gone through a lot of emotional abuse – while all along being a good mother and a loving and caring wife. At some point, we need to say “ no more “, when we’ve had enough emotional garbage dumped on us, and when we see no hope that things will ever change for the better. It sounds like you’ve reached this point, and perhaps having read the posts in this post section, you are getting ideas about what you may need to face going through a divorce. Divorce will never be easy with a disordered spouse but sometimes there is no other option but to go through with the experience, to get freedom and a peaceful life on the other side. From what I have been reading here from the other participants, the best way is not mediation with the narcissists or other problem spouses, but to go straight to finding a good divorce lawyer who can really be on your side. Keep posting so that we can support you. By the way, if you start a new post with your own heading, more people will see it and you will get more responses that way.
Blessings
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