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One of the areas that is thought to be the staying power with a narcissist is the great intimate physical relationship. It isn’t talked about much on this forum, but I’d like to open the conversation to other’s experience on this topic.
I for one did not have a great experience. In fact it was one of the worst intimate experiences I’ve ever had! It was one sided without any stimulation or interest in what might be pleasing or satisfying for me. Yet after it was over my N would say, “it was beautiful.” In later conversations he mentioned he liked rough sex and stated sometime he needed to take his aggressions out by initiating rough sex. He went on to try to convince me that some women liked it. I asked him, “what if you don’t have a willing partner?” He bluntly said, “he just takes it anyway.” Basically, he is raping his partner in order to satisfy his own needs.
Although it was shocking to hear, it didn’t seem to make me run the other way. Why not, one would ask? In hindsight I think…. 1) from the spell he had over me he could spin anything and make it sound normal 2) growing up in an abusive dysfunctional family I had developed a very high tolerance and odd things seemed normal 3) it was a long distance relationship so the physical part was not a steady ongoing thing and 4) we were both seniors, so I felt the physical part would wane as we aged. I think I was really kidding myself or trying to convince myself that a physical relationship doesn’t matter or exist as we age. People well into their 90’s can have a beautiful, satisfying intimate relationship with the right partner.
Prior to my N I’ve had mutual, balanced and pleasing intimate relationships in the past, so all of my reasoning and rationale now sounds insane! Since I’ve parted with my N I now see the clarity of everything and I just shake my head in disbelief at what I was able to accept. Post healing and recovery I don’t think I would recognize my old personality again……..thank goodness!
It might be helpful to hear from others to know it wasn’t just the physical part that kept us tethered to the N. I hope others have also seen the clarity and realize many N’s are only concerned with their own pleasures. Thank you for listening!
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Hi funluvmusic – Mira Kirshenbaum has written a book called, ” Too Good to Leave, Too bad to stay: A Step by step Guide to Help you decide whether to stay in or get out of your relationship “. This book is so deep and I reread it many times and still gain wisdom from it. Essentially she has a chapter devoted to different important aspects of a relationship and has you answering questions so it is like getting a medical diagnosis about your relationship that gives clarity instead of judgements or right or wrongs that make understanding and decision making about staying or leaving a relationship so confusing. Anyway, one chapter is about sex and though she does speak about physical aspects, she makes it clear that ” the sexual part of your relationship doesn’t exist in isolation from the rest of your relationship.” I have found that this statement as well as the other things she discusses to be very true. For example, who can really feel turned on by their partner when they are angry about something that person did, or when they feel shut down because their partner is not hearing them ? I personally think that narcissists with all their abusive behavior can get their partner to the stage where they are feeling intimidated or fearful and in a fog of confusion, so end up having no real satisfaction because they are complying to sex because of a demand. On the other hand, Zari Ballard, in her books always described that she had amazing sexual experiences with her narc boyfriend when they had ” make up sex ” or when he would love bomb her but then afterwards would just disappear. So in my opinion, this would describe the domestic violence cycle, except that the violence would be emotional abuse instead of physical. I agree with your analysis of your ex”s proclivity to enjoying rough sex with taking out his agressions during sex to actually being akin to rape. The last point that I wanted to respond to from your post was about sex between seniors. I watched a TED talk by a sex therapist who was of the opinion that seniors could enjoy sex well into their later years. I have my doubts because women after menopause have their hormones completely change when the estrogen levels go down. I have never investigated the subject thoroughly, but I think that many women do take estrogen therapy supplements to keep their sexual satisfaction. And it seems that men as they age can have their own physical problems with their sexual function as well. As I am in my more mature age, I am currently single and feel no longing for a sexual partner like I used to when I was younger. So I guess different people have different opinions about senior sex. All in all, thank you for your post about the whole subject matter.
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Hi funluvmusic – your last point and question is so interesting ! I will need to ponder that one for awhile! I’ll get back to you when I come up with some ideas – for now I’m stumped !
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Hi funluvmusic – I came up with a theory – in the devaluation stage what is going on is that the narc is gaining power over the partner. In this way he ( just using this pronoun – could be a female ) takes on the superior position and by default she gets the role of inferior thus she is being devalued. He can use sex as one of his tools to accomplish this. ( By the way, this will tie into the discard which I will discuss in a bit). However, the path for the use of sex bifurcates, and he can ( and must choose one or the other if he is a narcissist ). Both entail domination, but one uses blunt force and the other addiction. Blunt force has been the choice for many cultures – for example, in Africa, the women are circumcised so that the male has sexual domination in that she is not allowed to have sexual satisfaction but he is, and she must be completely subservient. For narcs who take this path, they can be demanding in and out of the bedroom and have rage fits and use intimidation. They have no concern for the woman’s satisfaction but just do whatever they ant to please themselves. It is not even sexual pleasure that they enjoy as much as they do in feeling dominant and the enjoyment of her subjugation and humiliation. On the other hand, the other path is to gain power by the use of addiction – to the sexual experience. When the sex is very pleasurable to the woman, it creates endorphins which are the body’s natural opiates. This is very addicting which makes her crave ” her man “. He can use this as a powerful tool to keep his dominance over her. In this path, she is more vulnerable to being afraid of a discard or can be more vulnerable to triangulation. When the discard does occur, like going ” cold turkey ” to a drug, it would make the discard more painful and devastating. For the other path, in the use of the discard, the way the narc destroys the partner is through her response of anger and hatred. He wants to destroy her empathy and loving kindness. All the power abuses he has used in and out of the bedroom plus the discard sets up a horrible psychological response. I heard that what Hitler really was after in terms of the Jews was not as much killing them, but getting them to hate. So the narc uses sex as one of the tools to devalue and destroy. So that is my take about the dilemma we were pondering.
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Hi everyone.
I’ve been involved with two narcissist.
The first was my H whom I married young
He was very controlling and though at first appeared eager to please, patient etc, over time and in early marriage became more deviant
He had a porn addiction and wanted me to act out those scenes. Always saying ‘this is nly for us’. If there was anyone I didn’t want to do he would coerce me with the ‘ don’t you want to please me, surely you would if you love me?’. He would reward me with my own bit of pleasure at the end every time, I guess like a dog with a biscuit. Those requests became more deviant with each clip which he usually watched when I wasn’t home. I was young, I had no other experience and he played on it. I came home from work early one evening to find him masturbating to a movie on TV. He didn’t flinch when he saw me but carried on. That was the beginning of the reality for me that he had a problem.
The second person was always hypersexusl, but during the act very subdued, very mechanical,shy even, despite having been in a long marriage, and I felt he was a little robotic. but to me at first it felt great not to be given any orders, the total opposite. This time I felt obliged to guide him in just the simple hints of what to do to involve me in order to both have the pleasure. It was great when he clicked, I remember him watching me intently when I eventually climaxed as though I was an alien. and then the back off patterns began. He kept switching the dynamics between lover/friend.
Both narcissist, both different but both with their own agendas. -
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Hi Everybody – Just think of the days when men were supposed to “ sow their wild oats “ before marriage while women were supposed to be virgins. Those poor virgins if they ended up with an enept or really bad lover and she wouldn’t even know it – especially since women were brainwashed about “ til death do us part “. Not to mention the horror if she also got stuck with a narcissist and didn’t have a clue about character disorders.
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Hi All,
If I understand the question, funluvmusic is suggesting that many patterns are very similar with ‘N’s– with the exception of their sexual behavior(?)
I am currently confused by the fact that yesterday I ran into someone who knew my boyfriend years ago and said he was “so admirable” for taking care of his previous girlfriend when she was ill. That made me question my judgement about him. He did take care of her for a couple of years, and I don’t think he cheated on her. I wonder if it was rewarding to him to have a woman trapped in his apt., and unable to do anything but long for his return from work. I don’t think he would cheat on me if I were willing to be totally, uncritically adoring. I constantly question whether I should make more effort, but I don’t want to become sick, trying! He weirdly has said to me that he looks forward to taking care of me when I am old and sick.As for our senior sex life. It was pretty one sided, for certain, but what I have always wondered is whether his word play was a clue to his innermost feelings. I have read that sexual kinks are a black box. Dan Savage, who has a column “savage love”, never analyses “kinks”. How people develop their preferences and attractions seem unknowable, it seems to him. All I can say is that my boyfriend likes to talk during sex -many nasty put downs. Then he would apologize afterward and be very loving. I don’t know if he fits the profile of an “N” completely. I know it helps me to think so, because I know I am not capable of fulfilling his need for constant admiration and unconditional love. His love comes with so many conditions.
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Polestar,
Both were like that for me really but in different ways. I saw, or at least felt red flags with both but chose to ignore them because, well they both ‘talked’love.The first I thought I was in love with, I was only in my teens, the second I was totally in love with and had my heartbroken so bad that I had PTSD, yet I kept yearning for him. I felt that because it was calm with no demands that I wasn’t being controlled, but of course I was with the back and forth patterns. In the latter half of the relationship he would say ‘its not just about sex with us, it’s more than that’, yet he would be aroused every time we were together, but never initiate anything. I know now that withholding sex is one of their traits.
The first one tried pushing the boundaries all the time and if I’d allowed it I would have been the female in 50 shades of grey. He once booked a ‘romantic night away’ for HIS birthday in an expensive hotel and packed my bag for me. When I came out of the bathroom there was a row of sex toys in a line on the dresser. I watched as he oiled them one by one and gave me word for word instructions like he was about to operate on someone reading it from a manual. He couldn’t understand why I told him to shove one where the sun don’t shine and turned over to go to sleep…and then he complained because ‘ he paid good money for the hotel! -
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Reading other people’s experiences is helping me a great deal. Iv’e been confused for so long.
Thankyou!
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Hi Everyone – your intimate stories and experiences have been so interesting. It certainly was a good topic that funluvmusic brought up. I have a funny one to share ! I had this boyfriend who was really a fantastic lover, so I enjoyed myself very much with him. Anyway, he was from a different country and he wanted to write a book. So he needed help with the English ( he spoke well but it wouldn’t be good enough to publish a book ). I normally would be happy and delighted to share in a project like that with him – but guess what he did ! He set up a situation in that he told me that we couldn’t “ make love “ until after I spent time helping with his writing ! I broke up with him so fast. I just thought it was funny and I still do.
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Great conversation everyone! Here’s something else to throw into the mix – antisocials and psychopaths have a need for excitement. What this means is that they are always looking for the next thrill – including in their sexual relationships.
So they like novelty. When your relationships is new, that’s you. But sooner or later they get bored. Therefore, they either want something else from you, such as kinkier sex. Or, they want someone new.
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Hi FunLM – thank you for helping to make this site one where people can really feel comfortable sharing and for validating others by all the strides that you have made and are making. I like how you can admit the challenges you face in terms of staying No Contact, and the way you muster up your inner strength so that it gives confidence to others when they read your posts. Thanks so much for all that you contribute here at the Forum. Love and Light to you.
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Hi FunLM – I wanted to discuss a bit about what you said about Learning about our own vulnerabilities that would attract those with disordered personalities. There is alot of differing opinions in the survival community about this topic. Some believe that it is the person’s own vulnerabilities or weaknesses that leave the person open for the narc to gain entrance into their lives. There are others who think that it is the strong, interesting and talented etc. that attract the narcissist because the narc sees this person as a great means of supply. They then drain out as much well being, good energy and so often finances from that person as they can. Also, some think that for the narc, it is more of a challenge to destroy a confident and healthy person and that the narc enjoys destroying that goodness. Either way, knowledge about these predators and how they manipulate and con along with strategies to deal with them is a sure way to find protection. Hope you do not feel disrespected by what I said – I was just trying to give the differing opinions that are out there. Thanks again for sharing. Love and Light to you.
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Hi – I agree that it is a good discussion – about why people thought they were targeted. Would you like to open a new topic about it on the forum or would you like me to ?
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