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Hi everyone, I had a nasty shock today. I few weeks back I wrote on this forum that my ex was going to be flying his girlfriend out to stay with him during LOCKDOWN! (We’re in the UK, she is in America). In the end she didn’t come. But I heard from him today that she is coming on WEDNESDAY and staying for a whole month! During that time he told me he intends to introduce the children to her and in fact wants them over for dinner on Wednesday or Thursday so they can meet her. I totally flipped out. I told him there was no way I was letting him near them for 14 days – we currently have a 14-day quarantine for UK arrivals and they have to self-isolate for 14 days. If she is living with him, he will obviously also have to self-isolate. During quarantine it is forbidden to receive visitors to the home. I have told him that if he tries to see the kids during those 14 days I will call the police and report him to the authorities for breach of quarantine. I’m afraid to say that I let myself get really upset and threw a few choice insults at him as well. But even after the 14 days, I feel REALLY upset that he thinks this is a good time to introduce the kids to his new girlfriend. I mean, their whole lives are destabilised. How is this a good time to do that? Anyway, I am feeling really shaken and upset and basically just venting here. We had a clear agreement that he and i would discuss a timeline when it was appropriate for the kids to meet his new woman. This basically just blows that out of the water. He told me when he wanted them to see her. I sent the email to a friend who said it looked very bullying. Anyway, this message is a bit scattered because I am so UPSET!!!
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Hi freeatlast – that is very upsetting especially when you thought that she wasn’t coming, and now he has sprung it on you that she will be arriving so soon. True to character, he was being deliberately evasive so that you would be caught off guard. From your posts, I gather that she will be here for 1 month ( but please correct me if I misunderstood about the length of her stay ). The 14 day plan is good and you have the authorities to back you up. Maybe hire a private detective to be sure that they are staying quarantined for that whole time, because if they do go out, they will have to be quarantined for another 2 weeks, and then she will be leaving. If they do stay quarantined, it does not sound as though your ex will respect your wishes. You can try to reason with him, but if he remains closed, it seems that he would have the legal right to introduce them. That is the time that your spiritual essence will need to come to the fore and to have faith that your children will be OK through the ordeal. Children are very perceptive and they will be able to know who she is under any facade and will know that you are there to support them in every way. Maybe other participants can give advise about how to avoid their meeting her completely, but if your ex and the girl stay quarantined for 2 weeks, and then your ex demands to have the children over for dinner etc., I don’t see a way to block it. Maybe contact a solicitor who might know of a loophole. I’m keeping light surrounding you.
Blessings -
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Hi freeatlast – I am so sorry that you are going through this pain. What helps me when I am going through suffering is to try to get into my left brain ( reason ). Some people say to really feel the grief and get through it that way. They think that if you don’t it will be suppressed. You can choose how you want to proceed or if there is a certain limit to the suffering you want to feel, and decide when there has been enough releasing. In any case, I thought I would assist you ( to the best of my ability ) to reason through the situation. Anyway, for myself, this is how I would think it through. First of all ( from what you said ) you know that your children will be safe, so you can put that issue aside in this process. So what you are facing is psychological abuse. It is important to recognize what it is, so your emotions can be lifted. You know the category, but to see it clearly you need to name it and it is Triangulation. Your ex has probably been using this on you for a long time now, and then escalated it with the girlfriend. It’s not just about him and her at all, it is about him and her with your presence being consciously and deliberately left out. They both get narcissist supply from your pain and from feeling like they are the winners. Now, your ex is “ wiping your nose in it “ with bringing the children into the picture, and this brings up painful feelings of humiliation for you. So it is a cruel psychological abuse that you are suffering from. When you are ready, realize that the only way to be free of the position that they have placed you in is to leave it. To do this you must psychologically turn your back on them and continue with the good work of inner no contact that you were making good progress with. I understand that your ex pulled a crisis on you by the suddenness of springing the news on you, and he knew it would be difficult for you to rally, but that is his “ upping the ante “ because he saw how well you were doing. You will get back on your feet again and will put the abuse behind you, because that is his problem, and not yours. Remember, abusers need a victim for their abuse habit. So get your self esteem back by refusing to be what they want you to be. Lastly, your relationship with your children is a sacred place where no one can possibly intrude. Know that they need you to hold that special place for them because that is their true home. No matter what they do socially, their hearts are with you because you created a warm loving sanctum for you and for them, that they just cannot have anywhere else. Please post as often as you would like – we are all here for you.
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freeatlast – do you have an official court custody agreement with your ex? I don’t remember seeing you mention one. If you do not, you are not obligated to do anything. Simply refuse to let the kids go.
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Hi freeatlast – you really have more insight than you realize – and I mean you personally ( not just you in the general sense ). But that issue of having your ex pull what he did on you would have set anyone back. Here’s a little constructive criticism – I know what I am talking about because I have made the same mistake myself many many times. What it is, is that we forget who we are dealing with – a sociopath – and engage with them as we would with a normal considerate person who we can expect a fair exchange with. That just gets us way entangled in their manipulations and unkindness. So when you thought that he would be fair in discussing plans regarding the children, you were forgetting who and what he is. I don’t mean to be critical, but to assist you in seeing that, so you can dodge the bullet next time. From your post you did say that you realized that basically and that is great. You mentioned “ grey rock “ too so you know what I am talking about. I read in a different post about your description of your ex as being a seemingly nice guy from the world’s point of view, so that makes it so much harder. I know because my ex had that demeanor. And thus I know how hard it is to forget who they really are especially when they can act so OK in the beginning of an exchange – like you ex acting like he would respect your wishes, but of course not coming through. So my advise is that you keep the idea of No Contact foremost in your mind when away from him or when communicating with him. That would entail never to meet to talk anything over with him, and not to have talks with him on the phone ( even though you can’t anyway ) and never to have a talk with him when he comes over due to the children. Only communicate facts via email, like specific plans of pick up and drop of times – and that’s it. So because of his going back on his word, which he denied but that he did, now you will definitely need to go full No Contact ( to the absolute maximum you are able in regards to the children ). I know that you have already made great progress and can get right back where you left off. I wanted to ad something from my last post about your kids meeting his whatever, and that is for you to realize that she is simply a stranger to them. That is only what she is to them. The last thing I wanted to say was that I started to watch the Handmaid’s Tale series. Wow – it is powerful and at the same time very freeing. It made me happy that she was able to talk to a few others who were not totally brainwashed and her determination that she would not allow that to happen to her. I feel that we here at Love Fraud are doing just that. Keep up your great work.
Blessings -
freeatlast – I wish you a very Happy Birthday and that my gift to you is to assure you that a whole new world of joy will open up for you and you will truly know that you are free at last !
Many many blessings to you ! -
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freeatlast – Please always remember that sociopaths are damaging to children, just as they are damaging to their partners, like you have been damaged. Therefore, your overall objective is to minimize the time that your children spend with him.
Many experts say that children need their fathers. When the father is a sociopath, that is not true.
I don’t know if I would do a lot of explaining. Remember, any time you give a sociopath a reason, he considers it a point of negotiation. So the fewer reasons, the better.
Definitely wait until the last minute to tell him. It will give you 2 weeks of peace.
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Hi freeatlast – I think that you are accurate in the assessment of the situation; regarding your ex, regarding your decision about not allowing the children to be with her and him, and about her character. You definitely would not want your children subjected to that influence. Another way to look at his and her relationship is that it is not based on reality. They have had no real time to know what it means to have to deal with the realities of a real relationship in all the ways that come with day to day living. They live across the ocean, so it is easy to go into a fantasy. So your ex is trying to get you to believe in their fairy tale so to make it more real than it is. And what it is – is actually a nightmare, which they will at some point start to feel the pain from. I will give a shot for what you might want to say to your children, something like : “ I have decided that it would not be a healthy situation for you emotionally to have to spend time with your dad when he is in the company of his new friend. There is no way to tell if they will continue to like each other, or if she may suddenly change or move or what. She has left her own children many times and is planning on leaving them now again for a month. Her children must be feeling very sad about that, and I don’t want either of you to feel sad due to her erratic behavior. If your dad has decided that he wants to date her, that is between him and her and really has nothing to do with our family. “ Maybe something like that ? You may need to word it in such a way that they would relate to and understand the best. About questioning your reaction to your ex’s abuse – I believe that sociopath’s are very good at manipulating the emotions of someone that they have pulled into their sphere. What they do is keep provoking and provoking by many different methods and will keep on until the “ victim “ finally reacts. Their methods include being passive aggressive, putting the other on the defensive by telling lies about them or to them, breaking agreements, shifting the blame to the other for what was their own fault – the list goes on and on. That is what they do and they will keep pushing because they live off other’s hurt and upset. They like to get the energy, they like to get a reaction so that they feel they have power over the other person, and they like to make the other feel guilty or ashamed if they finally “ loose it “ by becoming upset in whatever way – hurt, angry, depressed or any combination of negative emotions. In my own case, even when I eventually was able to not react, my ex would still act like he had “ won “ because in his eyes, if he did something that was humiliating to me, he believed and acted like it was a shame for me. That’s how arrogant they are. The only way to possibly have any dignity and to regain your equilibrium is to go No Contact. So when it is time for you to inform him of your decision about her, just email the basic facts – as you have described what you are going to do. But after that, be sure not to get into a debate about it. I know that it is very difficult to go No Contact while still having to deal on even a minimum level with an abuser. Maybe a way to do it would be to imagine that you are a lawyer when emailing him or when necessary to reply to an email regarding the children. Remember that he wants you to feel guilty and wrong, especially when you are acting strong with boundaries in place. Whenever you slip into self doubt, read a part of one of your books about psychological abuse or watch a You Tube about it and you will understand that making a person feel self doubt is something that abuser’s crave. Your ex sounds like he is very good at twisting things around and manipulating, and has much in his arsenal that he is more than willing to use to mess you up. So read your books and go No Contact ( as much as you can considering your children ), and you will start to feel much better.
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Hi freeatlast – as you haven’t responded to my last post, I am assuming that you are not wanting to communicate further about your ex and the issue regarding your children. Perhaps you feel assured and confident in your decision and also about the knowledge of what to say to your own children who you are so close to. If that is the case, that is good because you are an insightful and strong person who I respect very much. You have books and access to important information that will help you step by step as they did and do for me. I, personally did not know that there were forums to help support me when I was going through deep confusion and despair, and then I found some books to help me. I did so much with books alone. After I had gone a long way in my healing, I received an inner direction to assist others and that’s when I searched and found Love Fraud. So I love the opportunity to support others, and to enjoy the goodwill and fellowship that I have found here. Yet truly, I totally get and support survivor’s decisions with regards to posting or not on any issue of their choosing. So no need to respond to this post, but if anything comes up that you want to post about, we are here for you !
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PS – It just occurred to me that you were intending on responding but needed more time to think about the issue. Normally I wouldn’t jump to conclusions, but it was just that you responded to some of my other posts. Either way, it’s all good !
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Hi freeatlast – I completely understand the quandary you are faced with. Luckily you have some time to grapple with the situation and it is not an easy one to come to a resolution about. Thank you for your kind reply. I will be sending you light and love and give you the space that you need. However, if you would like some feedback, don’t hesitate to post and I will be happy to share my perspective, for what it’s worth – as there is not only one “ right “ way to understand something and as you are experiencing, sometimes there are many facets to one issue.
Blessings to you -
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Freeatlast, Donna made a very sound point about the children. Children learn from example and being around a sociopath is never good for a child. Also, would like to warn you to be vigilant about when and where the children are with him. How serious is he about this new gf? Serious enough to pick up and move to America? If so be very vigilant about his visits with them. At 12 and 14 years of age, they probably know a lot more than you give them credit for. Sit them down and have a heart to heart with them about the situation. It will give you peace of mind and let them feel like you trust them enough to relay such information. Hopefully they would tell you if their father mentioned them taking a trip to America with him and you don’t know about it. If you have read about or seen on tv about the agony caused when one parent steals the children or child from the other, you know how important it is to be one step ahead.
Wish you all the best…
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Hi freeatlast – here’s my opinion about your situation – I hope that it doesn’t make you feel criticized because my intention is to give you direction and support and I understand how difficult it is to sort everything out. I agree that it is reasonable and correct for you to allow your children to have dinner with them but not a sleep over. It is so reasonable that you don’t have to explain anything further to your ex nor to your children ( just something like “ this is what I feel is right under the conditions “ or “ this is the parameter that I feel comfortable with “ ). I don’t agree about a heart to heart with your children. They already saw your anguish and understand the situation very well. The ages of your children are such that they can already get it. What is most important is for you to get your own emotions together and to get centered. They can feel what you are feeling and they need you as their mother who they can rely upon. At their ages, they need to be concerned about all the hormonal changes they are going through and their own relationships ( that can be challenging at those ages ) and now the corona virus restrictions. That is a lot of stress that they already have to deal with, and they do not need to have to deal with any emotional issues that relate between you and their father. I think they should be protected from feeling that they are in the middle between both of you. They have loyalty to both of you and that needs to be respected. I know I mentioned previously about an idea to tell them about her ( kind of using her as an excuse for your kids not to see your ex and her ) but thinking more about it, I’ve come to realize that would not have been right for the reasons that I explained in this post. In the final analysis, it is your own responsibility to deal with the anger you feel. Granted, it is very understandable, but nevertheless, it is still your own problem to resolve. Les Carter is a therapist whose specialty is anger management and he is amazingly compassionate – he has books and free info on his site that will be very helpful to you. When dealing with your ex, I have expressed my opinion previously about going No Contact to the greatest extent possible. That will keep your sense of dignity from being harmed. Try to keep worries about the future and different continents away and “ on the back burner “ – you have enough on your plate in the present situation to deal with. And it is impossible to deal with anything in the best possible manner when you are feeling overwhelmed emotionally. So go forward with the good decision that you made regarding dinner and not the sleep over, and then put your will power and effort into focusing on your psychological health. You will feel better and better and that will be so good for your children as well. I do hope that this post was not too harsh. I have tremendous respect for you and what it takes to come to grips with all the entwining issues that you have been facing which can be so overwhelming.
Blessings -
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Hi freeatlast – I’ll post more later tonight, but I just wanted to mention that Les Carter has great You Tubes, that I think you would really like.
Blessings -
Hi freeatlast – congratulations… you have gotten through a very traumatic crisis, where your roots were really shaken, and you survived with flying colors ! It is normal after having gone through what you did, to have a great emotional release afterwards. Now, though, you can really start to focus on your healing and get better and better and start to feel your true being in greater ways. What I did, and I have gotten amazing results is to follow the program that Shannon Thomas outlines in her book called, “ Hidden Abuse “. She has steps to recovery, which I have been following. I am now at the step called “ Restoration “ and I am feeling very happy. I did go through every step before and at one time, I was truly at the Despair Stage. It’s not that she advocates despair, it is just that she recognizes that is how survivors feel in the very beginning. I haven’t heard too many comments about her book, but of any books I have, that has been the core one for me because she actually has a plan to follow. Through the process I have made so many note cards of her quotes to help me through. I’d say every word of her book has been of tremendous help to me. Sometimes I’d be in one step, even though my mind or intellect could grasp info from others. Anyway, just thought I’d let you know what has been working for me. Another thing that I like about her book is that you can pin point where you are at, at any time, like looking at a map, and I have found that to give me much clarity. But I know that there are many ways to heal. The important thing is that you are at a place now in which you can really go forward. Oh, another thing about her book that would help you is that she addresses situations like yours when a person cannot go full No Contact, and walks you through the manner of dealing and healing with support so that you are confident and strong in the process and can get on with your life. So congratulations again for all that you have faced with such courage.
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Hi freeatlast – I am glad that you are feeling better and have been able to detach from your ex’s behavior to the extent that you were able to uphold your calm and dignity. I think the whole issue here is about power at this point. Like having strategies for war. A Cold War. So you need to be like a general and determine how much you are willing to give in and where your bottom line is. Added to this is to know the real parameters of where you actually do have power. And what is right regarding fairness. Knowing that your ex will not play fair. By parameters I mean, what is the legal jurisdiction to what boundaries you can legitimately demand. While knowing that if you push it to hard he could reciprocate by going to court and getting some degree of custody. Perhaps if it came to that, it might be a good thing because things would be spelled out very clearly about who has which rights regarding the children. As far as his influence on the children, yes, the best scenario would be to eliminate him from their lives completely and you have his older son as an example. But the fact is that he has certain legal rights, or can obtain them when he wants to, so your power is limited in that way. Generally it is a good practice to not explain things to a sociopath because they are not interested in negotiating – they are only interested in winning. But as you said, you did score by the fact that he said that he would research about the best ways to introduce children. If he thinks he would loose, to save face he may just do dinner and not a sleepover, but the next time she comes, he will demand for the sleep over. Maybe you will be OK with that by that time, or maybe not. I think it would be wise to talk to a custody solicitor about how a judge would view these issues about boundaries because at some point you will need to face a judge and he will see what actions you have taken, and will base his decisions a lot from your behavior. And your ex’s. I think if you contact a solicitor ASAP, that will give you much power of knowledge to know what are the best decisions for you to take, and that will give you much confidence too.
I feel gratitude that you have shared with me.
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Hi freeatlast – his behavior is “ typical “, said with “ attitude “ . I agree, you just can’t stress yourself out about it. If it is happening anyway, then ignore the situation and your ex. One of the steps in the book I was telling you about ( “ Healing from Hidden Abuse “ by Shannon Thomas ), is called “ Boundaries “ and she talks about 2 types – “ No Contact “ and “ Detached Contact “. So go full speed ahead with Detached Contact, and as in “ The Handmaid’s Tale “ – “ Don’t let the B’s get you down “. Watch a bunch of Les Carter’s You Tubes. I noticed that he has some on-line seminar video series. There was one about dealing with if your partner has had an affair. Even though it is past history for you, I think that Les would address emotions and attitudes that you might find useful, pertinent and healing. Maybe make that the special item for you to do when your kids are with their dad. I know you’ll get through this with “ flying colors “ ! And post whenever you wish and I will give feedback. Either way, I’m here rooting for you !
Blessings -
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What amazing news – sometimes the universe IS on our side! (grin) Be prepared for the inevitable bullying tactics, though – he may even say he will keep them the entire 2 weeks (don’t let him). If your doctor will send you the orders in writing, all the better…and you might get child services involved if he persists. Good luck – and best wishes for a successful surgery and recovery!
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Hi freeatlast – Oh the goodness that is all pervasive ! And that goodness loves and cares for you personally ! If you ever needed validation that you are in tune with the harmony of the universe and with our loving Earth, you definitely have received it. I am filled with joy for you !
Blessings always -
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