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Hi everyone,
As most of you on here I have been conducting reading and research into NPD for a few months now with the inkling that perhaps my anguish, sadness and frustration is due to having a husband that suffers with it. I’m so unsure of what I am dealing with, but my gut (which has got me through the last few months) is constantly telling me there is something not quite right. To give you some context:
– We have been together 3 years, married for 10 months
– We met and moved into together pretty quick; he was and still is incredibly charming
– The first two years were pretty much ok. There were lies, I know there were. But at the time they seemed legitimate and we worked through them.
– A year ago, he lost his job and has been in and out of jobs since with lots of issues regarding money which have led to an awful lot of terrible lies. Including telling his entire family we had broken up and informing them they weren’t to contact me…even though we were still living together.
– He is now in a new job but is away from home for 5 days out of 7. I have found messages to other girls that live in different countries so I don’t think there was anything physical. The messages seem to have stopped.
– He claims to love me and every time I suggest we ought to break up he back tracks and apologises and promises to change.All of the above make me think Narcissist Alert! However, the below are things he does that I wonder ‘does this mean he isn’t? Or is this this more of the game?’
– When I point out something he has done that has upset me or that I class as being over a boundary, he apologises, accepts fault for it and, at least for a time, attempts to not repeat that action. An example would be after the lies with his family (who are all very selfish people themselves btw) who chose to basically ignore my existence for the entirety of our relationship, he set up a Whatsapp group with all of us in it and asked his brother and mum to try to build a relationship with me, and he does stand up for me at times when they treat me poorly.
– I have the log in for his bank, his Apple account (find my iphone) and his social media. He has given to me and ASKS me to check them when he is away to set my mind at ease. I don’t. As I’m typing this, I am thinking is this just another form of control? Luring me in to a false sense of security?
If I had to describe how I feel, it’s that he is trying, but doesn’t seem to get anywhere. Which then makes me think he isn’t trying for me, but for himself.
Anyway, as most of us I am driving myself insane with the thinking! Any advice or similar situations?
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Dear SJB,
I would be concerned. Your story shares similarities with what happened to me with my now ex NARC.
My ex was and remains super charming. He also is a liar but the lies were small at first and we did couples counseling and tried to work through them. He also had lots of emails, calls, and messages from other women both here and overseas. We had a shared bank account and I had access to his email, text, other accounts. Every time I tried to back away or break up he would apologize and pretend to respect my boundaries. If I told him don’t call me or text me I would have to block him otherwise he would so he instead would email me nonstop. If he knew I was home he would fly down to my house suddenly to be in tears at my front door about how sad he was that he hurt me. I was the one, I was his soulmate, etc, etc. all lies made to make me feel like the relationship was real.
The truth is actually much worse and I only found out because he began triangulation between me and his 2nd “ex” wife. I suspected that she was crazy based on his words so I hired a PI to look into her and protect myself. And a couple of his co-workers subtly warned me he was not the person I thought he was. Here is what I found out:
He was still married to a woman in another state and had seven additional women and men he was in contact with and sexually active with.
He had as many additional email accounts and cell phone numbers that I had never seen or was unaware of as well as online social media accounts in different names.
He had multiple banks and bank accounts where he had squirreled away money and kept each separate from all but one relationship so that none of us knew about the others.
He had multiple porn accounts and was active on all of them regularly.
He attended counseling with me only because it gave him an edge in what he needed to say or do to convince me to stay. During our last year together he spent a week vacation at the beach with his wife and kids. He also spent Thanksgiving with me and my family in a different state and then did Christmas with his wife and kids and flew down to see me Christmas Day and stayed several days with me. Always there was a lie with just enough truth in it to make me believe it was just him and I.
His ex wives were all crazy, his mother was crazy, this girl at work he knew and another in CA were both crazy according to him. After I had the investigator dig on him I found that really none of them were crazy and he was the abusive one putting all of them against each other to make himself feel more important and fought over. While he was never physically abusive to me, he was to some of the others as well as to his son and to pets.
My guess for your guy the reason the messages for the other girls have stopped is he has had them switch to other accounts. My ex had me on one email when we started talking and then moved me to a separate email and secure text at a different number from the others. It’s easy to check anonymously if you use Spokeo and enter all of the accounts and information you have on him it will link to other accounts with the same email, phone, user name and show you if he has other accounts. Enter those accounts and they will link to others, etc. I did this in addition to the PI, it wasn’t fun but I’m glad I know because it helped me to get out.
But the most important thing is this. If you feel like you are having to play detective it’s because something is wrong, Don’t discount your gut feeling, it’s probably right. You don’t deserve someone who puts you second. You deserve someone who treats you the best.
NARCs will over time keep pushing boundaries to see if they have broken you yet. My ex did that to me and whenever I threatened to leave he would come back very apologetic and loving, sweet, romantic. They want to wear you down and if you are strong then it’s a challenge for them to see if they can get you to give up on those boundaries. If you do, they will push for more and more and devalue you more and more until you walk away for good or they do.
I wish you the very best and you are in a good place here to talk to others who have been through these things too. For a long time I just read the articles and thought this couldn’t be my guy because he seems so sweet and kind and loving. But over time I saw through the mirage and realized I had been duped by this guy as had many others. Please be careful and take care of yourself. Peace to you.
Spooky
– He claims to love me and every time I suggest we ought to break up he back tracks and apologises and promises to change.
All of the above make me think Narcissist Alert! However, the below are things he does that I wonder ‘does this mean he isn’t? Or is this this more of the game?’
– When I point out something he has done that has upset me or that I class as being over a boundary, he apologises, accepts fault for it and, at least for a time, attempts to not repeat that action. An example would be after the lies with his family (who are all very selfish people themselves btw) who chose to basically ignore my existence for the entirety of our relationship, he set up a Whatsapp group with all of us in it and asked his brother and mum to try to build a relationship with me, and he does stand up for me at times when they treat me poorly.
– I have the log in for his bank, his Apple account (find my iphone) and his social media. He has given to me and ASKS me to check them when he is away to set my mind at ease. I don’t. As I’m typing this, I am thinking is this just another form of control? Luring me in to a false sense of security?
If I had to describe how I feel, it’s that he is trying, but doesn’t seem to get anywhere. Which then makes me think he isn’t trying for me, but for himself.
Anyway, as most of us I am driving myself insane with the thinking! Any advice or similar situations?
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Dear SJB,
I would be concerned. Your story shares similarities with what happened to me with my now ex NARC.
My ex was and remains super charming. He also is a liar but the lies were small at first and we did couples counseling and tried to work through them. He also had lots of emails, calls, and messages from other women both here and overseas. We had a shared bank account and I had access to his email, text, other accounts. Every time I tried to back away or break up he would apologize and pretend to respect my boundaries. If I told him don’t call me or text me I would have to block him otherwise he would so he instead would email me nonstop. If he knew I was home he would fly down to my house suddenly to be in tears at my front door about how sad he was that he hurt me. I was the one, I was his soulmate, etc, etc. all lies made to make me feel like the relationship was real.
The truth is actually much worse and I only found out because he began triangulation between me and his 2nd “ex” wife. I suspected that she was crazy based on his words so I hired a PI to look into her and protect myself. And a couple of his co-workers subtly warned me he was not the person I thought he was. Here is what I found out:
He was still married to a woman in another state and had seven additional women and men he was in contact with and sexually active with.
He had as many additional email accounts and cell phone numbers that I had never seen or was unaware of as well as online social media accounts in different names.
He had multiple banks and bank accounts where he had squirreled away money and kept each separate from all but one relationship so that none of us knew about the others.
He had multiple porn accounts and was active on all of them regularly.
He attended counseling with me only because it gave him an edge in what he needed to say or do to convince me to stay. During our last year together he spent a week vacation at the beach with his wife and kids. He also spent Thanksgiving with me and my family in a different state and then did Christmas with his wife and kids and flew down to see me Christmas Day and stayed several days with me. Always there was a lie with just enough truth in it to make me believe it was just him and I.
His ex wives were all crazy, his mother was crazy, this girl at work he knew and another in CA were both crazy according to him. After I had the investigator dig on him I found that really none of them were crazy and he was the abusive one putting all of them against each other to make himself feel more important and fought over. While he was never physically abusive to me, he was to some of the others as well as to his son and to pets.
My guess for your guy the reason the messages for the other girls have stopped is he has had them switch to other accounts. My ex had me on one email when we started talking and then moved me to a separate email and secure text at a different number from the others. It’s easy to check anonymously if you use Spokeo and enter all of the accounts and information you have on him it will link to other accounts with the same email, phone, user name and show you if he has other accounts. Enter those accounts and they will link to others, etc. I did this in addition to the PI, it wasn’t fun but I’m glad I know because it helped me to get out.
But the most important thing is this. If you feel like you are having to play detective it’s because something is wrong, Don’t discount your gut feeling, it’s probably right. You don’t deserve someone who puts you second. You deserve someone who treats you the best.
NARCs will over time keep pushing boundaries to see if they have broken you yet. My ex did that to me and whenever I threatened to leave he would come back very apologetic and loving, sweet, romantic. They want to wear you down and if you are strong then it’s a challenge for them to see if they can get you to give up on those boundaries. If you do, they will push for more and more and devalue you more and more until you walk away for good or they do.
I wish you the very best and you are in a good place here to talk to others who have been through these things too. For a long time I just read the articles and thought this couldn’t be my guy because he seems so sweet and kind and loving. But over time I saw through the mirage and realized I had been duped by this guy as had many others. Please be careful and take care of yourself. Peace to you.
Spooky
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Hi sjb1987 –
Here are some of my thoughts about you situation: First of all, I would get in touch with what you want from a relationship in the first place. Write your thoughts out. Some ideas that come to mind for me is that a relationship that I would want would be one in which I felt a sense of security and peace, and where I would feel that I could absolutely trust the person down to the core if it was an intimate relationship like marriage. I would want my days to be filled with love when I thought about that person. I would want to be happy and if there was a trouble like at work or something that I was facing in my life, I would feel that the person would be able to understand and give me support. If this is what you would also want ( and I’m sure you do like the rest of us ), from what you describe, it is not happening in your relationship. Instead of peace, you say that you are driving yourself insane with the thinking. Instead of feeling happy in your relationship, you said that you feel anguish, sadness and frustration about the relationship. Instead of having trust in your husband, that there have been many lies. Now these are the lies that you know about – lies by definition are kept secret, so by the fact that you have caught him in many, only means that there are many that you have not caught him at. Then about boundaries _ what snowgirl said was very true. I would like to ad that the strategy that abusers use in pushing boundaries ( from my point of view ) is that often right after they push a boundary they will quickly apologize. But that behavior doesn’t stop, and they keep doing it again and again. The problem is that this forces you to confront them each time – so it begins to look like instead of them being the aggressor of pushing your boundaries, you begin to look more and more like a ” nag “or the problem because you end up acting like you are always complaining! Then it’s ohhh poor them for being mistreated by you! Plus it all becomes so exhausting and you end up getting worn down so that in the end, they get away with more and more abuse. Especially since you want to keep harmony in your relationship, so the victim ends up just letting them get away with more and more. So – yes, I would say that you have much to be concerned about. Even if you did come to the realization that you wanted to get out of your relationship ( get a divorce ) now, you would get a whole lot of guilt tripping, and other behaviors to confuse you, and this would make leaving extremely difficult. He is already trying to stop any such thought that you may have along those lines by telling you to check up on him. Like if you wanted to exit the relationship, you would need proof! In any case, you do need help and support at this time. Please keep in touch here, because many participants have gone through what you are going through and will be able to help and support you in many ways.
Blessings to you -
sibl- If you are wondering if he is O.K., he probably is not. Your gut reaction is valid.Dealing with a disordered person results in confusion.
SG
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Hi SJB, sending you hug hugs hon. 💜💜💜We have all been exactly where you are now. CONFUSED…not sure what to do…how to deal with their crazy endless mind games.
Wondering if we should stay or leave them.
Feeling stuck
…stuck because they make us feel stuck…they tell us “you are the only one that ever understood me”, “it’s us against the world”, or “I’m sorry” (a million times),
stuck because we are married & we took “marriage vows” sickness & in health, better or worse,
stuck because you are so exhausted both mentally & physically
Stuck because of financial issues etc…
But, the reality is we never took a marriage vow to be emotionally, mentally & verbally abused.
Do you know SJB that lying is abuse??
YES!! Lying is a form of manipulation and manipulation is emotional, mental & verbal abuse.
Lying is a form for someone to control someone else thoughts and actions. He is trying to control you from leaving him AND trying to control you from learning about his DOUBLE LIFE HE IS LIVING!!
his chats with other women is UNACCEPTABLE!!
His Lying is UNACCEPTABLE!!
I dealt with the same MIND TWISTING MANIPULATION that your husband is using on you now, my (then now ex) husband when we were together. His daily endlessly lying broke my spirt thru the year. it also manipulated my perception of reality. It also pushed me away from my once strong GUT INSTINCT.
Our gut instinct is NEVER WRONG EVER!!
YOUR GUT INSTINCT IS CORRECT HIS BEHAVIOR IS NOT NORMAL! His PATHOLOGICAL LYING (look that term up here on LF & the net) is a HUGE RED FLAG that he has a personality disorder. People with Personality disorders are a NIGHTMARE TO DEAL WITH but to live with one it’s hell.
DO NOT TURN AWAY FROM YOUR GUT INSTINCT!! IT IS CORRECT!! I dont know how many time I turned my head away from my gut instinct or had him spin my head around when I was calling him out with his lying & manipulation. It was endless times over 16 years together.
Please look up these terms here on love fraud & on the net:
Cognitive dissonance
(this is holding two different believe system for the abuse good guy bad guy)
Sociopath triangulation
Sociopath Gas Lighting abuse (no doubt he is doing this to you)
Sociopath smear campaign (what he telling his family)
Idolize, Devalue, discard (this is what he is doing to you now)
Also, you need to see his whole family dynamics clearly. The APPLE DOES NOT FALL FAR FROM THE TREE!! Most people with personality disorders come from a family filled with personality disordered DNA or/and learned bad behavior.
I remember going to a individual counselor (we had been to marriage with a few different counselors each time he manipulated the counselors which this is exactly what they do!! marriage counseling DOES NOT work with a disordered individual) and telling him that something was not right with my (then) husband.
I asked him to talk with him & tell me what the hell was going on. He agreed. My ex screamed at me the whole car ride to the counselors office…I was frazzled emotionally a wreak by the time we go to the office. He knew exactly what he was doing…I got into the office & he continued to push my buttons stealthy and I lost my temper not something I did but, he wanted me to look crazy & him to look cool & calm. It was the complete opposite at home. We never went back to that counselor as he told me not to trust him the whole way home. I stayed another 7 years in the hellish marriage. The abuse mind games got worse each day because he know I was seeking help & answers to all the confusion. He knew exactly who he was, a sociopath.
This guy you are with know too who he is. Please heed these words:
GET OUT NOW…DONT WASTE ANY MORE TIME
How do you get out?
Get help with your national domestic violence hotline & website. And ask them for local abuse center phone numbers and GO for free counseling & women group meeting ASAP. WITHOUT YOUR HUSBAND KNOWING and only your most trusted family & friends knowing.
reach out for help with your most trusted family & friends
Ask your local abuse center for help with a DOMESTIC ABUSE SAFETY & EXTI PLAN. The most dangerous time for a woman in a abusive relationship is when she is about to leave or has just left.
Most importantly DO NOT TELL YOUR HUSBAND WHAT YOU ARE DOING OR WHO HE IS FOR YOUR SAFETY!
BIT your tongue and DO NOT FIGHT WITH HIM…you are going to have to pretend everything is normal until you can get out safely. Get all your ducks in a row lawyer etc before you serve him divorce papers. Remember that sociopath narcissist & narcissist are always planning 10 steps ahead in their con game. He has planned out already what he would do to you should you file for divorce. He will fight you tooth and nail for everything you own. So plan out know with help. You are not alone…reach out for help. This is one of the hardest steps at first to take because a narcissist or sociopaths isolates us from the outside world. Your husband is doing it right now with his family and no doubt has stealthy done the same with your family & friends too.
Remember also there are DEAL BREAKERS with relationships. What are YOUR deal breakers with your husband??
Right now you are accepting ALL of his horrible behavior (I did the same, everyone here did the same too)…but at some point you must say ENOUGH…I DESERVE BETTER THEN WHAT I AM SETTLING FOR RIGH NOW WITH THIS LIAR & CHEATER.
Look up Dr Phil & Oprah Life Code interview series.
Buy Donna’s book Lovefruad 10 sign you are dating a sociopath. Have it mailed to a family members home or friends for your safety.
Google: “Oprah Gavin debecker you tube” to watch their powerful interview on why it’s so important to listen to your gut always!! Gavin debecker’s book is The Gift of fear (If you go up to the search bar here on LF Donna’s has written an article on this book)
The Greatest gift you will ever give yourself is stepping out of this abusive relationship. It’s not easy to come to terms with this. But, once you are out & healing you will thank yourself for escaping the hell you are living now.
KEEP READING EVERYTHING HERE AT LOVEFRAUD. Donna & her Husband Terry have created a library full of information on what you are enduring. The support here as you can see by everyone rallying around you is a unbelievable blessing. So keep posting too.
Sending you huge hugs on. You are stronger then you know. And WE HEAR YOU!! WE BELIEVE YOU!!
Wishing you all the best.
Take care.
(ps the above post are phenomenal!)
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ps FOR YOUR SAFETY BE SURE TO CLEAR YOUR COMPUTER HISTORY!
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This is from the USA Domestic Violence Hotline. org website (this website is full of info also) their phone number: 800-799-SAFE. If you are not in the US look up your country’s hotline website also.
“Warning Signs of Domestic Violence
It’s not always easy to tell at the beginning of a relationship if it will become abusive.In fact, many abusive partners may seem absolutely perfect in the early stages of a relationship. Possessive and controlling behaviors don’t always appear overnight, but rather emerge and intensify as the relationship grows.
Domestic violence doesn’t look the same in every relationship because every relationship is different. But one thing most abusive relationships have in common is that the abusive partner does many different kinds of things to have more power and control over their partner.
Some of the signs of an abusive relationship include a partner who:
Tells you that you can never do anything right
Shows extreme jealousy of your friends and time spent away
Keeps you or discourages you from seeing friends or family members
Insults, demeans or shames you with put-downs
Controls every penny spent in the household
Takes your money or refuses to give you money for necessary expenses
Looks at you or acts in ways that scare you
Controls who you see, where you go, or what you do
Prevents you from making your own decisions
Tells you that you are a bad parent or threatens to harm or take away your children
Prevents you from working or attending school
Destroys your property or threatens to hurt or kill your pets
Intimidates you with guns, knives or other weapons
Pressures you to have sex when you don’t want to or do things sexually you’re not comfortable with
Pressures you to use drugs or alcohol
Explore the tabs below to learn some of the common warning signs of each type of abuse. Experiencing even one or two of these behaviors in a relationship is a red flag that abuse may be present. Remember, each type of abuse is serious, and no one deserves to experience abuse of any kind, for any reason.”LOOK UP THE DOMESTIC ABUSE POWER & CONTROL WHEEL (also).
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Hi sjb1987 –
From all that has transpired with the card canceled/ not canceled etc. , it looks very confusing ….. but it’s NOT! The point is that he “ goes off on a tirade “ towards you. That is abusive anger and it is totally unacceptable in a relationship. Now he’s done his same old pattern of pushing your boundary way beyond what is OK, and he is back at the apology bit ( like the pattern I pointed out to you that he does in my last post to you. ) In a healthy relationship, when issues come up from banking to trust, people talk them over – they don’t go off on tirades. It is a known fact, that abusive anger escalates. Plus the 13 messages that you woke to demonstrates someone who is totally out of control. The other participants gave you wonderful advice. Please keep in touch, because we want to help you get through this.
Blessings -
sibl- I agree with polestar. This is abusive anger. Do you have family or friends in England? Being in the Middle East must be isolating.
SG
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sibl- Hope you are O.K. I have an American friend whose husband is English. They live in England. Her husband’s office is in London. He goes to the Middle East on business. I guess alot of the English do.
SG
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Apologies are meaningless unless there is real change behind it. Sadly, apologies are part of the cycle of abuse . . .
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