How to recognize and recover from the sociopaths – narcissists in your life › Forums › Lovefraud Community Forum – General › Sociopathy in successful educated white collar professionals
- This topic has 11 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 11 months ago by Redwald.
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September 9, 2020 at 3:51 pm #63860sept4Participant
Article about a sociopath gynacologist abusing his patients. This abuse is not in a relationship/love context but I’m posting it as an example of how successful educated well regarded men can be sociopathic too.
Sociopaths/narcissists/abusers are NOT limited to low income people or uneducated people! There are lots of educated successful white collar professionals with this same abusive personality type. In fact some white collar professions even have a higher incidence of sociopathy because the more sociopathic you are, the more successful you will be! For example in business and politics.
So in dating, just because you are dating a successful educated man does not mean he cannot be sociopathic and abusive. These abusers use their success and social status as a FRONT to seem legitimate and trustworthy. Imagine being a clueless woman going on a first date with a sociopath doctor or businessman. Your first impression would be wow he is successful, well spoken, educated, an upstanding person in the community, very well regarded by his peers. Such a person cannot possibly be a liar or abuser right? Wrong unfortunately.
And the abuse pattern is the same: preying on vulnerable people. From the article:
“For many victims, Hadden was their first gynecologist,” she added. “Many of Hadden’s victims did not know what to expect during an OB/GYN examination and were less likely to challenge Hadden when he engaged in sexually abusive behavior. Many didn’t know that his examinations were inappropriate and so returned to see him for years.”
The former doctor allegedly “sought out and abused” one girl who he himself delivered as a baby and “inflicted her with the same abuse he inflicted upon adults,” Strauss said.
Hadden allegedly “used his position as a medical doctor at a prominent university … to make or to attempt to make his victims believe that the sexual abuse he inflicted on them was appropriate and medically necessary,” according to the unsealed indictment.https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/09/us/columbia-university-ob-gyn-robert-hadden/index.html
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September 11, 2020 at 12:14 pm #63867Donna AndersenKeymaster
I can verify that plenty of white collar type people are psychopaths. Like my ex husband.
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September 11, 2020 at 1:36 pm #63869sept4Participant
Thanks Donna! How was your divorce and did you fight your ex in court?
I made a thread last week about my divorce and how I decided not to fight. Partially because he was threatening me and I was afraid of him. And partially because I knew that he would lie under oath, hide or destroy evidence, hide or squander money, bribe witnesses etc.
So instead of fighting a dangerous and likely losing battle I decided to retreat and choose peace and safety over money. But looking back now that I’m stronger I regret not fighting.
Also the white collar aspect reminds me of the Fotis Dulos case. A goodlooking very successful wealthy businessman who ended up killing his wife after she filed for divorce.
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November 18, 2020 at 12:45 am #64499sept4Participant
Was just reading a new article about the Fotis Dulos case. This part is really chilling:
“the prospective jury pool in Connecticut would have a natural inclination to trust a handsome, educated man with a flawless physical presentation who could easily turn on the charm.”
“ Dulos began granting interviews to the press, and damned if he wasn’t convincing while passionately asserting his innocence. He made good eye contact. He didn’t give sidelong glances or fidget. He just kept stating, matter-of-factly, that he not only had nothing to do with Farber’s disappearance but he too was concerned about her whereabouts.”
https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2020/10/true-scope-of-jennifer-farber-fotis-dulos-tragedy
It’s terrifying how much normal people are inclined to immediately trust a goodlooking charming well spoken successful man. These types of sociopaths are the scariest. Imagine how easy it must be for them to take a normal trusting woman looking for love on a date and manipulate her with his facade. Must be like taking candy from a baby.
- This reply was modified 4 years, 2 months ago by sept4.
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November 18, 2020 at 10:34 am #64502RedwaldParticipant
I have no doubt that exploitative personality disorders are just as prevalent among the rich and successful as among people at large–and probably more so, since their manipulative tactics can unfortunately gain them a success they don’t deserve.
I’m pleased to see the term “corporate psychopath” has caught on in recent years. It helps to inform the public about the nature of psychopathy, and to remind them that a “psychopath” does not have to be a serial killer to do enormous harm. This article from the FBI summarizes the problem of the “corporate psychopath.” My only criticism of it is that it doesn’t lay enough emphasis on the devastating economic damage these predators can do to the public at large, for instance in the infamous Enron scandal that destroyed so many people’s rights to the comfortable retirement for which they had been saving all their working lives.
But don’t forget, these offenders are not just “men”! They are women as well! Especially when it comes to the crimes that “corporate psychopaths” are particularly guilty of: fraud, forgery, and embezzlement.
Women by and large do not perpetrate anywhere near as many violent crimes as men do; not in the world at large–though they’re guilty of domestic violence as often as men are: a fact covered up by lying feminist propaganda. And when it comes to sexual abuse, like that of the gynecologist Robert Hadden, some naive people seem to imagine females can never be guilty of it, which is far from the truth. That’s a “whole ’nother story.” Even in my own experience, while abused men don’t want to talk about such things, a neighbor’s wife told me her husband at the age of five had been molested by two teenage girls–and in a church, no less! Females get away with too much due to the absurd myth of supposed “female innocence.”
But when it comes to “non-violent” “white collar crime,” that opens up a whole field for malevolent females to exploit, just as much as malevolent males do. A simple Google immediately brought up this paper from the U.S. Department of Justice on “women offenders,” which mentioned among other things that “Women defendants accounted for 41% of all felons convicted of forgery, fraud, and embezzlement.” The paper may be two decades old, but there’s no reason to suppose anything has changed since then.
It’s a colossal proportion, particularly when we consider that women are less likely than men to have the business opportunity to commit these crimes in the first place. Of course, I’m not saying all these offenders were psychopaths, but whether they were or not, it does show that women are no more to be trusted than men are.
And while psychopaths are by no means all serial killers, some of them are. In the medical profession, the crimes of Lucy Letby have just popped up again in the news. She’s another “killer nurse” like Beverley Allitt, Genene Jones and others. No doubt she’s a case of Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, like other child murderers who were not nurses like Waneta Hoyt, Marybeth Tinning and others. At least the latter only killed their own children and not those of others, as Lucy Letby did. Cases of “Munchausen’s by proxy”–almost invariably women–may be classed as a separate diagnosis in the DSM, but to my mind it’s merely a specialized subcategory of psychopathy, considering its nature: the murder of a human being without conscience for the pettiest and most trivial of motives.
You’d never think for one moment that a woman with a face like this could murder little babies. She’s not only beautiful, but she looks kind, happy and caring, someone you could always trust to look after a child.
Just watch out for those “charming” people, whatever their sex.
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November 18, 2020 at 6:01 pm #64505sept4Participant
Redwald yes I agree with you that sociopaths might be even more prevalent in the business world because sociopathic traits combined with intelligence leads to great business success. I’ve worked in business over the past decade and am sad to say that in my experience the more sociopathic people are the more successful they become. It’s sad and says a lot about our society. And I hope that eventually the corporate climate will change and will reward honesty, cooperation, compromise, and empathy over sociopathy.
As to female sociopaths yes I absolutely agree with you that women can be equally sociopathic as men. And it’s probably easier for them to get away with it as there is a gender bias toward naturally assuming that in general women are more empathic and more trustworthy.
And yes agreed that the single biggest red flag when first meeting someone new is if they are extremely charming and charismatic. It’s the easiest sign to spot right away.
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November 25, 2020 at 1:41 pm #64553rooskyParticipant
I am currently divorcing a counselor with a Master’s degree who was abusive and unfaithful and ADMITTED in texts to me that he is a predator who looked for a vulnerable person (me) to groom and abuse. Thought I would keep that to myself because he was my 3rd abusive man and my tendency is to give them what they want and run and hide. His colleagues adore him and he gets stellar reviews at work. He was on to his next victim within months and I am losing my mind. They can be anybody.
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November 25, 2020 at 4:57 pm #64557sept4Participant
Roosky I’m sorry, that is awful. Hope you are holding up okay.
Yes they can be anybody and I think even higher chance if they are successful charismatic confident men. Unfortunately from what I’ve seen, the more sociopathic they are the more successful they can become in business. Sociopathy seems to be an asset in business.
I think that is truly sad and I hope that business culture will eventually evolve to value good character, compassion, cooperation, and morals. And that sociopaths will eventually be frozen out after the culture changes.
I don’t see that happening anytime soon but it can happen with time. A century ago we could not have imagined that women or people of color would have equal rights and would be equal to White men in the workplace. But business culture eventually did evolve to value and require diversity. And more recently sexual harassment was still widely tolerated, and thankfully that culture has changed a lot just this past decade. Maybe and hopefully it can one day evolve to judge and value compassion and cooperation.
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February 2, 2021 at 11:43 pm #65036thesmithsParticipant
My late ex-h had a master’s degree from UC Berkeley & a great job for a long time. He was a professional musician (played three instruments) & singer before he applied for grad school. Really talented but played dives mostly. I don’t mean to show off about the school, but wanted to show sociopaths are represented in all walks of life.
I overlooked those small red flags before we got married because of his “successes.” What a mistake! BTW, he lost the great job undoubtedly due to his difficult personality.
One thing I found odd about him ,and should be added to the red flag list, is he never had stage fright. Singing or making extemporaneous speeches at large gatherings didn’t faze him one bit. He loved the attention. He didn’t care what people thought about his performance, I believe. It’s probably the only upside of being a sociopath.
Roosky, I have a sibling who has a Master’s in Counseling Psychology. He’s quite passive aggressive & a manipulator. Am sure he’s kissed up to the right people at work to get ahead.
Sorry this happened to you. Admitting disordered behavior is very bold and entitled. He will treat the next woman (women?) the same as you. My late ex-h had another woman a few weeks after our breakup.
It hurts, I know. Take time to heal. It does get better!
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February 23, 2021 at 1:44 pm #65306ClaireParticipant
I just read that, Bob Montgomery, James Montgomery’s brother who was a prominent psychologist in Australia, has been found guilty and imprisoned for sexually assaulting boys in the 1960’s when he was a scout leader or something. Donna often says that sociopathy is highly genetic and I guess this is an example of that. I looked him up while listening to Lovefraud audiobook (it’s really good) and was curious because he had written self help books. It just goes to show that even prominent white collar people can be predators.
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February 23, 2021 at 2:26 pm #65307thesmithsParticipant
Claire,
That was a great find! I googled & found a number of news stories about Bob Montgomery’s case.
Here is one from December 2020:
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February 23, 2021 at 5:36 pm #65315RedwaldParticipant
I guess the apple doesn’t fall too far from the tree!
This Bob Montgomery has such a friendly, open face too. A very goodlooking fellow, a face people would trust. Just like the loving, happy face of Lucy Letby I posted earlier.
I can’t pretend to know what women like, but I wouldn’t blame a woman for falling in love with him, just as any man might fall in love with Lucy.
Oddly enough, this Montgomery fellow reminded me a little of my own face, when I was wearing a beard–which I’ve done on and off at various times in my life. Or maybe I’m flattering myself! Still, it just goes to show that you can’t trust a face, no matter how genial. As the saying goes, “Handsome is as handsome does!”
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