We are having THE TALK…!

[bluejeans]

I know it is probably pointless and futile to attempt a talk with my Husband about how he is but I feel I must try. We split this time last year and its brought back painful memories for me. We got back together three months later and he swore he wanted to be a better person and Husband. TO be fair he has taken on board everything I have said but I find myself still feeling nervous about it all. I want to discuss with him how I feel and I feel nervous about that too!

We live apart due to the split so he is coming to see me this weekend. I am not sure what I want to say or how it will go I just know I need to give him an opportunity to put these things right as he said he would. But Im not sure how it will go. I have tried to talk to him over the phone but he always cuts me off or ends the conversation. I. have asked him about this and he just says, ‘he doesnt like whats coming out of my mouth’ nice. so we will see how it goes.
I know I have to watch my language and tread carefully to get my point across but any other advice would be great. x

[AnnettePK]

Bluejeans,

I gather you’ve moved out again from the house you were sharing with your ex and the rude lodger?

It sounds like you recognize it may not accomplish anything to talk to him. Perhaps sharing your thoughts with him will help bring you a measure of closure. Be aware that he is most likely to use various bullying and abusive techniques to try to discredit you, blame you, play the victim, gaslight you, etc. From his behavior you’ve described, it’s unlikely that he will listen to you with understanding and change his behavior to meet your reasonable needs.

You might consider whether it’s worth talking to anyone who would ever say something like he “doesn’t like whats coming out of your mouth” and cuts you off. That sounds like a deal breaker and totally unacceptable disrespectful bullying behavior.

Consider meeting him to talk in a public place, like a coffee shop or restaurant. He is less likely to behave rudely, insult you, etc. It is also protection against him crossing the line and physically intimidating you or assaulting you.

[slimone]

Bluejeans,

I am a long time contributor, unofficial, to Lovefraud. Here is one of my stories. I split with a boyfriend sociopath, who had been abused as a child, was raised in a poor uneducated and chaotic home. He and his brother both ended up disordered, his brother violent.

We broke up the first time because he could not accept that I said no to him, over something very small. He cursed me, yelled in my building (everyone could hear), and emailed me all kinds of insulting letters. Then he did an about face and begged to ‘have a talk’.

When he asked that we meet after the first break he fell to his knees, cried a bucket of tears while holding my hand, and told me I was helping him heal from the childhood loss of his mother. I melted.

I again broke it off over his going into a rage over something small (me having boundaries).

The second time we had ‘the talk’ he stood up in the restaurant and yelled at me that I was an online slut just looking to hook unsuspecting men into having anal sex. He yelled I was a selfish manipulator, and a troll. Everyone heard. I was so embarrassed.

I did not give him a 3rd chance.

Now, I know you have been married for a long time, so you may feel you owe your husband the time to talk. But know, these types DO NOT PLAY FAIR. If the pattern of abuse and manipulation is there it does not matter how long you have been involved with one another.

I have been involved with many of these types (so for a long time, just different people). They all have the same behaviors in common, no matter their particular ‘story’ (married, single, rich, poor, religious, a drug dealer, garbage man, banker, doctor, etc….).

[bluejeans]

UPDATE.
Well, it didn’t really happen.
For one reason or another the moment did not come up when I could talk to him about things. I did mention about him making me feel ‘like I don’t matter’ but he didn’t really respond or anything. I just faffed around the subject and didn’t really address it to be honest. I think its fair to say that I bottled it!
The weekend kind of evolved and I just couldn’t find the words.

Last year before we split he had been accused of using inappropriate language with a 15 year old girl who worked for him ( he’s a swimming teacher and runs a swimming school, she was a teachers helper) I happened to say that the Police had thought he was grooming her and this was mentioned in their paperwork but they arrested him for harassment. This has had a profound effect on him and his business. He is devastated by it. Four years previous to that he was also accused of historical sex abuse from 40 years previous by one of his ex girlfriends young daughter ( she was 7 at the time.) He believes he is being victimised by the Police as he put a complaint in against a senior officer ( for corruption and perverting the course of Justice) when he was a serving Police Officer.

We had a huge row on Sunday where he said he had to leave and then after some cajoling he stayed. Im not sure what that was all about. He gets very angry very quickly and doesn’t know what to do with himself. I should have watched my language and been more careful as I know this is explosive to him. Since then he has been very sweet and loving.

So the talk didn’t happen.

Part of The Talk was also about what he said to his parents when we split. He told them I had lived off him and used him to fund my training. His Dad will now no longer be in the same room as me and calls me a sponger. Now this is pretty hurtful to say the least. I didn’t work outside the home as I worked for him in his business ( Im a Graphic Designer) and he did not want me to work. I have asked him to address the mis-truths he told his Dad about me but he hasn’t. I was retraining to have more opportunities to earn money as my skills are outdated. He supported this and helped me.

How on earth should I feel about that!? Should I let it go? or pursue the truth. I got on really well with his Dad so it saddens me that he won’t speak to me now and makes life difficult as his Mum is very ill so I have to hide when I visit her etc.
sigh.
What would you do?

[AnnettePK]

Bluejeans,

Thanks for the update; it’s good to hear from you.

He sounds like he is the source of a lot of problems. He sounds like he is a manipulator and he is successful in making you feel responsible for his bad behavior, such as when you think you should have changed your language, been more careful, etc. He is exploding to train you not to speak up when it’s appropriate to do so, and so he gets a pass on his bad behavior.

The situation about his dad accusing you of freeloading when you were doing training for a new job is crazy. This is so wrong on so many levels – it’s none of his dad’s business, it’s wrong of your ex to involve his father even if you were in the wrong about something, your ex didn’t object to you taking time off to do the course so why is he objecting now, your ex complained to his dad before going to you and stating his objection before you did the training, and finally if you’re married it’s not freeloading – you’re getting an education to advance your career which benefits both spouses. It sounds like you were set up to be accused and blamed for something that you did in good faith. Consider that if you didn’t do things to advance your career and earning power, they can blame you for not working up to your potential, for not being ambitious in your career, etc. They are insulting and blaming and accusing because that’s what abusive bullies do – it has nothing to do with you.

The sexual predatory behavior you describe often occurs with abuse, lying manipulating, and bullying. People who behave this way are misogynists.

Being sweet and loving is the way he acts when he’s getting what he wants whether it’s fair and appropriate or not. If he turns on a dime and acts mean and hateful, it’s not real sweet and loving. It sounds pretty worthless.

I think you should feel however you really feel – your natural reaction and your natural feelings are right for you. If he makes you feel bad, he’s a bad man for you. From what you describe, some appropriate feelings may be hurt at his meanness, anger at his disrespect and betrayal, frustration at his inability to change, grief for the loss of what a real loving marriage could be and should be, and/or fear of his capacity to harm you.

It took me a long time, but I eventually left my ex abuser, manipulator, bully, pathological lying, child porn addicted, psychopath. I have no contact with him other than occasionally a necessary email about some business/logistical matter.

You will leave when you’re ready and when the time is right for you. Most of us who left abusers wished we’d left sooner than we did.

You might consider not having contact with your ex for awhile and see how you feel. Keep reading on the subject of abusers and the techniques they use, and on the experiences of other targets. I read over 50 books on the subject and I learned much that helped me.

Take care.

[bluejeans]

I read and re-read all the time.
I probably obsess way too much on him and should be focussing on me!

I left him last year four months after he got arrested for harassment. I had just started my own business and had to close it due to his business being affected by his arrest as we lost a lot of money and my new business relied upon that financially. I was a mess. I didn’t know which way was up. We were talking in his office about things and I said ‘..but the Police will consider this your second offence I suppose’ He says I said that he was a convicted paedophile. I didn’t say that. Anyway he blew up again and bodily dragged me out of his office. He says this was my own fault as I didn’t leave when he told me to.

I can see how this all looks and sounds, even to me. But it was a horrible time for us both. I left for a few days and he told me I had abandoned him and not to come back.
It was then he told his Dad how he had spent the last 5 years bank rolling my new career.

We got back together about three months later.
He wrote me out of his will after a few weeks due to his Dad threatening to write him out of his will so my children didn’t inherit any of his money from me. His dad is very controlling.
That hurt too.

I am still pretty confused about everything but I can see how he is makes me feel worthless. Its the lack of consistency. One minute all sweet and very kind. The next he treats me as if I am invisible. There is still this undercurrent of him being the Alpha Male and me being the kept women… and so I keep on. Wasting energy on him and trying to figure out where I am in this world.
And yes I do feel like life isn’t worth living. It feels like I am worthless and have messed up so much I might as well give up.

I want to get better. I want to be better.
I try not to see him as the reason for all these thoughts but to look at my own behaviour and life first.I don’t know what else to do.

[AnnettePK]

If you sense you’re focusing on him too much, it’s probably accurate. Consider trying to balance where you spend your time and energy by maybe doing some activities and interacting with people that have nothing to do with him. When you read and learn about the patterns of behavior that abusers and manipulators engage in, consider using what you’re learning to make the best decisions for the benefit of your well being and happiness.

Physically dragging you out of his office is assault and physical abuse. Consider calling the police. He can be charged. Assault is illegal and it is never the victim’s ‘fault’ no matter what.

Him being arrested was a horrible time for you both, but he is the one who caused the horrible time and the closing of your business and the financial losses. He sounds like someone who will continue to cause you, or anyone else entwined with his life, pain, hurt, stress, financial loss, emotional and psychological damage, and physical damage. Since nothing is his fault in his view, he won’t change. He blames everyone else, so for things to change everyone else will have to change in some way. It sounds like he is working hard to make you feel responsible in some way for his behavior choices.

You might make a list of pros and cons of ending contact with him and getting away somewhere so you don’t have to interact with him. Most victims find that getting away from their abuser and having no contact with him is necessary to get better and to be better. He is the source of many serious problems in your life. He keeps you confused so he can control you. You are right that alternating being nice and mean towards a victim is a powerful technique abusers use to bully and control their victims.

Is there a domestic violence hotline or shelter that offers counseling in your area? It may be helpful for you to talk to someone who is trained to help victims and who knows the local laws and sources of assistance.

It sounds like he has messed up in life, not you. He tries to make you feel worthless, but it’s a lie. You sound like a lovely woman who has much to offer in a relationship, with a good man who appreciates you, values you, respects you, and deserves you.

[slimone]

Bluejeans,

Oh my gosh. It does sound like you are really tangled up in feelings that you just cannot make heads or tails out of. This is one of the SINGLE greatest indicators that the man you are involved with is succeeding in taking control of your life, and keeping you under his thumb. He has you in the FOG. Fear. Obligation. Guilt.

When I read what you write about his treatment of you I am horrified. And yet I see, on some level, it mystifies you. You cannot see what I am seeing. As I read what you have written I can see you have no feelings for your own preservation. As if figuring him out is FAR more important than your own welfare. You express yourself in a way that communicates that you have very little interest in your own safety and happiness. Almost like you don’t deserve either one. What I know is that behaving as if you are worthlessness is another STRONG indicator that you have been repeatedly abused, manipulated, degraded, and devalued.

You are not stupid or worthless. You are caught in the confusion of abuse and chaos created by someone who has a mental illness.

You also write about your relationship with him, and the things he has done to your lives, as if it is all completely normal. Even while you question certain behaviors and events, you are asking us how you should feel or behave, as if there is some sort of normal answer one of us can give you.

You ask how you should feel about it. Like we are going to tell you to talk with him a certain way, to interpret it a different way, or try and give him more space, etc. None of us can really do that. We can’t, because we know that there is really nothing you can do to help him, make him see how you feel, or otherwise change the situation at all.

As long as you are with him, talk with him, and remain involved with him it will just continue along as it always has.

The only real answer is to stop yourself and SEE HOW YOU ARE FEELING. Do you feel worthless and confused. Then that is what you are feeling. So you feel disgusted? Feel it. Do you feel insecure and guilty. OK. Accept how you are feeling. It is trying to tell you something.

AND, it is NOT telling you to feel differently.

It is telling you to DO something differently. It is giving you lots of answers. Please listen to yourself.

When you use phrases like ‘it was a difficult time for both of us’, you leave me feeling so sad for you. The two of you are not living in a normal relationship, where you are sharing the ‘hard times’ together. Not if you are being abused like you tell us you are. Living with abuse and lies is a reality for some people. But that doesn’t make it normal or acceptable.

I have experienced this kind of unreality you are living in. I have felt the same lack of self-caring. I have felt so confused I couldn’t do the simplest of activities, and could find no sense of joy or peace in my life. I talked to friends who looked at me like I was completely crazy, and I just couldn’t figure out why. And every time I talked to my abuser I felt more certain that he was the answer to my problems, and not the source of them. I just felt I hadn’t found the right way to be around my abuser, the right feelings to have (as if I could choose what to feel), and that when I found the magic formula it was all going to turn out to be so much better.

It never changed so long as I was involved with him. It only changed once I wasn’t with him any longer. There were no other options. It was stay and be miserable and sad –a tiny version of myself– or leave and see who I could become.

Once you can accept what he really is, and you do have to take this step, you will be able to take another step…But first you have to get to this place of realization and acceptance about him.

[bluejeans]

Oh blimey. Thank you so much for that. Gosh.
I see exactly what you mean.

I have some hard thinking to do.
x

[slimone]

And, Bluejeans, stay with us here at Lovefraud. We get it. Don’t let my straight talk scare you away. It is meant with love. Total love.

xo, Slim

[bluejeans]

Hey if he won’t scare me off, you certainly won’t!
I appreciate the straight talk so very much.

hugs back.
x

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