By | December 25, 2010 56 Comments

Happy Holidays to all!

To all Lovefraud readers – Merry Christmas, Season’s Greetings, Happy Holidays! We hope your holiday season is peaceful, and the New Year brings change for the better!

Donna and Terry

Posted in: Donna Andersen

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lesson learned

Merry P/S/N free Christmas!!!

May today bring you ALL love, laughter, and time spent with those that CAN love!!

super chic

Merry Christmas Donna & Terry!!!!! 😀

Merry Christmas to everyone!!


Merry Christamas.

Was wondering what today was going to bring without my spath, and guess what? I coped fine.

Have had a brilliant day. Went to church (lots of good/genuine people), stopped off at my daughters, met up with everyone, opened pressies, had lunch, watched a sci fi dvd – all in all a good day. His name wasn’t mentioned once – funny how no one misses him, makes it easier for me.

Last Christmas he worked and acted like a spoilt child when it meant he could not join us all for lunch – had a right strop – made me feel really guilty.

I only really thought about him when I came home and the house was in darkness – bit scary out here in the sticks. Always worry that he might be lurking in the shadows.

The parcel (not a bomb) – turned out to be curling tongs for my daughter which I had completely forgotten about. The postal delays here have been awful because of the snow – phew!

Ox Drover

Dear Candy,

glad you had a great day!!! And glad the “box wasn’t a bomb!” LOL

Amazing how much more peaceful our life is without them to muck it up, isn’t it!


Hello everyone. I have been reading this blog for a while now, and it has really been helping me. I registered a few days ago so I could reply to posts.

I will tell you the quick version of my story starting backwards. My current Spath and I broke up yet again last night. I have had an off and on relationship with him for about a year and a half. Because we broke up by phone on Christmas Eve, because I figured by his voice that he had started drinking again, the only thing he seemed to regret is that I had un-friended him on Face Book. He called me a bitch from hell. That is the first time he has called me names. I know I need to go no contact, so today is the first day.

Background. I was married twice, first to the father of my daughter who turned out to be gay long story and fairly long marriage. My marriage of 25 years ended three years ago. The divorce has been final for a year and a half. I think he had Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder – no longer in the DSM. I have an adult daughter with Autism, and a mother who is at least on the spectrum for Narcissism. As of now, I am still sane.

Grieving over the recent break up with Alcoholic Spath. I need you people and want to be a member of your group.


super chic

True-to-Self, sorry you are going through all of this, glad you posted and glad you found this website, it is a wonderful site with caring people and we are all on this healing journey together!!!! We need you too, we all learn from each other! Welcome!

super chic

I’ve got to check out now,
will be gone the rest of the day.
God Bless us… everyone!


Hi True. Welcome. Giving up the spath addiction is probably the hardest addiction of all. I’m sure that LF friends on here will be able to give you some valuable advice/support.
Good luck.

Ox Drover

Dear True,

Welcome to LoveFraud and sorry that you need to be here on Christmas day of all days, but like someone said here (can’t remember who CRS!) It may be the worst club, but has the best people!

I’m glad that you had the strength to go NO CONTACT with him, and it is a huge step but the only one that can protect you from him. The name-calling is an attempt to devalue you, but it is like a small child yelling out curse words, and is simply an attempt to make himself feel bigger by putting you down.

I know that isn’t new information to you, but it doesn’t hurt I think to hear it from someone else to validate what you already know.

Stick with the NO contact, and block him on FB and don’t go to his FB page to keep up with him. Block his phone, text, e mail and any other way he has of trying to contact you and don’t listen to his “oh, I’ll never do it again” pity ploys.

NO CONTACT does protect us from their bait and hooks! Again, welcome and God bless.


Candy, and Shabbychic, Thanks. That is the thing. It is definitely an addiction. After my divorce I have read a stack of books mostly having to do with emotional abuse and self-esteem. My ex H was definitely a verbal abuser, especially towards the end of the marriage. The guy I just broke up with, and I had recently got back together as phone friends and face book friends only after I had a death in the family and notified him. He has never actually called me a name….verbal abuse, until last night.

I figured out he was a Sociopath some time ago. He doesn’t seem to require a lot in life but does live a parasitic lifestyle. Believe it or not he seemed to be using me for my phone plan. What struck me was that he never seemed to be embarrassed when I put out most, actually all of the money. He would give me trinkets once in a while and was a very good listener. That is the problem. His listening was my way of reflecting what I needed to say and in my own mind thinking that he was actually caring about anything I had to say. I know the drill. I am actually a smart person and getting smarter and starting to get stronger regarding self respect. This time really broadsided me though because I thought we were actually just friends. I knew I was playing with fire. However, I found myself starting to care when he started drinking. I can’t care about him. I need to care about myself. I am rambling, I know, but the word addiction is one thing you people understand when others don’t understand how I can be so stupid to keep giving him chances and the benefit of the doubt.



Ox Drover,

You are right, Christmas is difficult because I have my daughter home and am going to my mother’s for a brief visit. I don’t want to discuss it with her.

A few minutes ago a friend of his called. I didn’t return the call. It may or may not be a coincidence. One of the pulls on me was that his best friend and I got along very well. I don’t think he is a Sociopath but still has a lot of problems. This friend is now living on someone’s couch after drinking away what it took to keep up his new apartment. These guys met in an alcoholic rehab place. How did I meet BF? On line, of course….singlesnet. The red flags were all there, I love you, too soon. Wanting to hang out an my house rather than his halfway type house. Well of course, I had autistic daughter one weekend, and BF the other. BF finally got a small apartment of his own but it is quite a distance from me. That is how we can maintain a phone relationship. I just got tired of dating. I went with another guy for about 6 weeks before falling back to the familiarity of Spath. Talking about two alcoholic friends makes it sound as if I am really a loser. I grew up as a pastor’s daughter and married the choir director (the one who was gay, LOL) This is really my first experience with alcoholics.

I know what I need is to just be myself with myself. I am a Christian, so I am not alone either. It is so nice to find people who understand.



Everyone, I probably hi-jacked the thread so please excuse. I didn’t know where to go to just introduce myself. Writing to me is like thinking out loud. I have an idea and this is important.

The best friend of Spath is calling me on Christmas. That would be a normal thing to do. If I call him back I would blurt out that I broke up with spath. Although his friend is not a spath he is complicated. He was a seemingly successful, very likable recovering alcoholic who has a Heroin addicted grown son. Between the two of them one of them stole a very expensive item from me that he borrowed to clean out his old apartment. He had kept it for a while as he began to drink and I trusted him. Then one days he calls me with a convoluted story about how someone came to the door and said I had sent him to retrieve it. This is very hard for me because the friend is a strong Christian (except for theft and lying? LOL) I have the feeling I need to go NC with him as well. The way to do that would be to delete or hide my Face Book account. I also suffer from Niceness.

Advice on this would be appreciated.


P.S. Spath is a person who can go along time without communication. He is not the stalker type. Even though he is not currently getting along with his former best friend (because he lost his car) it would not surprise me if he pumped him for information. I just deactivated my FB account.


true to self – block, delete, don’t respond to the friend. he’s no friend of yours.

it is hard – people hide behind labels and false behavior but actions speak louder than words; you don’t need active drunks in your life, you don’t need spath’s or their trojan horses, thieves or liars – nothing at all to recommend in that list!

lesson learned


I’m so very sorry this is happening to you today…but as I read your last post, you DO seem as a very intelligent, STRONG woman with a lot of knowledge about this. ME TOO! But it’s scary when I think that it didn’t stop involvement. I think I’ll be alone for awhile as I have tons of healing to do and don’t trust my radar at ALL right now.

I really related to the alcoholic Spath thing. Mine is BAD….and it was his love of wine that was/is his MO, BIG TIME! I love wine now too, but towards the end of the relationship, I saw that I was moving right to where he was: Alcoholism. So I stopped drinking. I had some last night for Christmas Eve, but no desire to be where I was before. I realized, having not been drinking that drinking WITH him was a way to COPE with him. He could have cared less that I was having a problem with it. I felt like this was a ploy to keep me stuck in his hole. So I got out. He would come over for lunch everyday while he was at work and we would have wine with lunch. He went to work having been drinking and didn’t care that it was against company policy. It was also a way to lower my inhibitions. I had a sick feeling in my stomach when he wanted sex and I was sober. I had to drink to cope with that too.

Interesting that you met yours online. My exSpath is trolling Chemistry heavily.

It’s a good thing you didn’t let the alcohol suck you in!

You are FAR from a loser, my dear. You sound delightful! And stronger than you might think too! your awareness is GREAT! I hope you enjoy the rest of your day! I’m glad you’re here! It’s great to read others shared experiences. I’m learning a lot from all the reading, finding strength in ventinghere. I hope you do too!

merry Christmas!

lesson learned


DELETE THE LIE!! I think that’s been said here over and over.

No contact means NO CONTACT…not through friends either. Chances are,if they are “close” to Spath you can guarantee they have issues!!

I WON”T delete my FB account. I just super duper upped my privacy settings. I deleted anything that had anything to do with him. Friends, or otherwise.

It’s admittedly hard for me NOT to check out what HE”S doing on his FB! But I’m working hard on that and reminding myself that if I do, it’s BIG TROUBLE! Today, so far so good! I know he’s trolling me on yahoo, so I just close it out.

He’ll eventually go away when he realizes I won’t respond. Just surround yourself with the folks here as well as those who are near and close to you that are healthy! It’s hard, but it CAN be done!

We all suffer from “niceness” here, I think it’s safe to say. Compassionate hearts. I’m realizing that not everyone thinks that way. It’s been very difficult to implement that knowledge into my thick skull!! SO HARD!!

Hang in there, Chica!

Ox Drover

Dear TTS,

You are catching on! Delete the “friends” of the sociopath, because they are one of two things, also disordered or they are victims as well. You do NOT NEED EITHER IN YOUR LIFE.

I am also a Christian but I realize that a lot of things that I didn’t know before. One is that “forgiveness” does NOT mean we have to allow them to continue to abuse us, it means that we get the bitterness out of our own hearts for what they have done, but as the Apostle Paul said, if “thy brother offend thee, talk to him privately, if he still won’t listen go back with witnesses, and if he still won’t listen take it to the church, (community) if he still won’t listen, then you treat him as a heathen.”

NO where in the Bible does it say that we need to lie down and let people walk on it. Read the story of Joseph, when his brothers showed up after 20-30 years, he didn’t identify himself ot them until he had thoroughly TESTED them to see what kind of men they had become during that time. He had forgiven them long before, but he did not TRUST them.

When people lie to you, they are disrespecting you, they are saying “I will mistreat you and lie to you about it, but you are supposed to forgive and forget.” NO, get the bitterness out of your heart, but not forget. Don’t trust them.

I have one son who is a psychopath in prison for murder….he has no remorse,, no repentence and is still just as dangerous as he ever was. I have another son who is dysfunctional but not a psychopath, but this time last year he lied to me. Not a “big” lie, and he’s not dangerous, he won’t hurt someone, he won’t steal from them, but he is willing to LIE TO ME, knowing that he is risking any kind of relationship with me at all. When I caught him, he had no remorse about it, just lied to cover up the first lie.

Funny thing is he broke off ALL relationship with my egg donor (mother) as I have because SHE IS A LIAR and she sends support and money to my P-son in prison after he tried to have me killed (she knows this) but she is the designated “family enabler” and so NOTHING my son could do including actually killing me (he’s already killed one young woman) would keep my mother from “pretending it never happened.” She styles herself a Christian, but she does it while she still has a MOUTHFUL OF LIES.

I no longer tolerate liars, cheats, and dishonest people in my life. I realize that sometimes a FEW (small percentage) of alcoholics will “reform” and stay sober, but drinking is a CHOICE and we all have choices, and the consequences are that I will not have anything to do with someone who makes choices to hurt other, to disrespect others, and I am VERY leery around anyone with a past habit of alcoholism/drug addiction or a criminal back ground of any kind. I no longer give out my Trust like a party favor, people must EARN my trust, and once it has been betrayed, it is gone unless there is some SERIOUS remorse shown.

But, once someone has betrayed me multiple times, I’m willing to “forgive” them (get the bitterness out of my heart) but they are NOT welcome inside my “circle of trust” any more. Effectively they are OUT of my life. I have no doubt that my son C will come back (again) with a sincere sounding and maybe even sincerely felt, apology for his betrayals, but while I love him, I will NEVER TRUST HIM AGAIN, he will never again be an intimate part of my life.

No one is perfect, we all “sin” and do things that we wish we hadn’t, but a pattern of behavior that is not changed is a different story. Read the story of King David, David was an adulterer and even a murderer, yet he was styled “a man after God’s own heart”—HUH? WHY? He had done evil things! He was a man after God’s own heart because when he was confronted with his mistakes and his bad choices, HE REPENTED AND CHANGED HIS WAYS. Big difference in him and King Saul that he replaced as king. Saul wouldn’t listen to the prophets who told him he was doing wrong.

The people with personality disorders do not listen, neither to God nor man about how their deeds hurt others. If they even notice, they don’t care. The blame is always someone else’s, never theirs.

TTS hang in there and delete these people from your life. Put yourself on the FRONT BURNER and take care of your needs and your family’s needs and leave these people to their own problems. ((((Hugs)))) and God bless.



And if anyone here doesn’t celebrate Christmas, then I wish you a Happy Hanukkah. (Or should that be a “Chappy Chanukah”? I’m never quite sure how to spell that word…)

…or a Konvivial Kwanzaa, or whatever…

…I could wish you a Rambunctious Ramadan, except that I missed it by a few months…

…As for the rest, I think “IO SATURNALIA” ought to cover it nicely! 😀


Welcome to the jungle, True-to-Self!

I suppose the advantage of breaking up with an abusive partner on Christmas Eve is that it gives you the chance to discover you can actually have a better Christmas WITHOUT him!

Plus of course you can sell whatever Christmas present you’d bought for him and use the money to buy yourself something nice instead.

I presume it means he won’t be giving you a Christmas present either, but it sounds like this particular bum wasn’t good for anything much in that line anyway.

So, you had 25 years with a passive-aggressive (who incidentally turned out to be gay), followed by eighteen months with a drunken parasite. That narcissistic mother of yours obviously had you well trained to go running around trying to please people like herself who are impossible to please, while putting up with all kinds of crap from them that you never should have to put up with. As you so rightly said, you have to start caring about yourSELF instead. It’s a strong sign of codependency if his retreat into the bottle triggered you to START “caring” about this guy–instead of prompting you to run a mile.

Mind you, I’m not surprised he called you a “bitch from hell.” Even ordinary people don’t take kindly to rejection–the day before Christmas especially–and if he was drunk at the time he was that much more likely to get mad. The trick is not to let it get to you, to start feeling needlessly guilty and cave in. Focus on what YOU need, not on what he wants. Oxy is right about the importance of NO CONTACT in addictive relationships. I imagine this guy had other faults besides, but who needs a pickled leech in their life?

If you have difficulty staying away from him, you might like to take a look at Howard Halpern’s How to Break Your Addiction to a Person. I haven’t read it myself, but I have heard from people who found it helpful. Good luck, and have yourself a Good Yule.


you been reading my mail?

‘That narcissistic mother of yours obviously had you well trained to go running around trying to please people like herself who are impossible to please, while putting up with all kinds of crap from them that you never should have to put up with. As you so rightly said, you have to start caring about yourSELF instead. It’s a strong sign of codependency if his retreat into the bottle triggered you to START “caring” about this guy”“instead of prompting you to run a mile.’


I forgot to thank Oxy and i think it was also Shabbychic who recommended me to apologise for accusing him of doing what he did in fact. I did it, but as i did it just partially he asked new assertion. These “persons” are incredible. Incredible nazi people. But more incredible are the quantity of people that support them just because they have power or social status.


Have just posted once, but this whole site has stories so similar to what I went through and I am so happy to have others who understand. Thank you, and Happy, peace and love around you all.


Before I get the chance to learn all of your names, let me respond generally. I realize one of the problems I have has been the two friends. It is like playing that game “Whack-A-Mole”. I think the spath uses his friend as a trojan or just uses him in general. The reason he liked to hang out at my house was because he didn’t have a car due to DUI’s from another state. His story to me when I met him made some sense. He was widdowed and started drinking because of grief but had turned his life around….NOT TRUE. Yes he was widdowed but didn’t turn his life around, and who knows how long he had actually been drinking. The friend gave him credibility and also conveniently had a car. When he lost his car he also lost his user friend. Even though I think the friend has been harmless, it suddenly dawned on me today that what better time to go no contact with both of them. I do hear remarks that one makes that I know the other said. They think we gossip?

Actually I had two husbands. The first one was an career military man so kept his homosexuality well hid. He was not like a nice gay guy like the people on Will and Grace. A therapist told me that he hated women. He was a furniture abuser. I have never had a guy hit me, but the abuse was all around me.

The Passive Aggressive second husband may also have been a spath. I haven’t quite figured that out yet. I have been on two Forums, one for spouses of PA’s which kind of died out, and the other for people with Borderline Personality Disorder. I thought my mother may have that, but after reading “Will I Ever Be Good Enough” by Karyl McBride, I realize she fits the description of a Maternal Narcissist. I didn’t know all of this until after the divorce. She has always been controlling and hard to please, critical but generous. Her generosity always had strings attached though. I was an only child so I didn’t have a witness to the parenting I received. There was never any overt abuse. I do believe though that when I hit puberty she was in competition with me. She has also had two husbands but they are the enabling kind who put up with her. Mine left me. I seemed to be programmed for rejection. The thing about living with a passive aggressive person is that they are least likely to reject you outright, but do it in so many other ways like withholding.

I am so glad I found this place. Just the fact that you gave me permission to also go no contact with the friend, I think, is what I needed.

I realize I definitely have co-dependent tendancies but am now working on me. This started out as a rough day as I actually wanted to call spath. I know, unbelievable. I have come to the right place. So nice to meet all of you.


Ox Drover

Dear True to self,

Glad you found this place too, it really IS A GOOD ONE. The older articles are archived by date,, (only goes back one year) or by author or subject. I suggest that you go back through he ones by subject or author and read them as you will get all of them, there are actually over 700 of them, and just read the articles and save the comments for later, I think you will find things that will help you along in your healing.

Some things won’t give you an “ah ha” moment right now, but later they will. There are cycles of growth and advancement and then a back step or two (roller coaster rides) but hang on and work your way through the swamp! It takes some time and “reprogramming” to over come the tendency we have to enable others or take on abuse. There is a life of freedom and happiness out there, so just keep on trucking! Again, welcome.


Merry Christmas Donna & Terry! Thank you for managing this wonderful site, you are doing something of extreme importance, and I applaud that. Merry Christmas to all LF readers and members, authors… I’ve met some very wonderful, bright, funny, great, warm souls here and I’m lucky for that. Happy Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, etc etc ( 😀 )


Oh yeah and as appropriate, two links to read and be mindful of during the Holiday Season. ( Regarding S/N/P’s during the holidays. It’s a very important read IMHO. )

From Sandra Brown’s blog ( two different articles ) :



Happy S/N/P-Free Holidays ( and Life ! Of course. 😛 ) everyone!


dancing nancies – particularly like this bit on ‘relapsing’ during the holidays:

“I want to be with a psychopath/ narcissist for the holiday.” Say that three times to yourself out loud….

“I want to share my special holidays with my special psychopath.” ???


dancingnancies – thanks for the link – very useful. That’s the first time I have heard/seen Dr Hare and he makes ‘sense’ of everything.


Very funny phrase “i want to share my special holidays with my special psychopath” but very sinister too.
I spent my last Christmas with him in his country, 12 days in which i saw a little collection of abnormalities: i saw the non empathy because i fell in the snow and he didn’t react at all, it was another man who came to help, i saw his seductive-predatory nature because i saw how he hunted around his neighbourhood, subtle but he did it with old and young, men and women, i saw he ignores and neglet his family, included his sons, his apartment was almost empty but untidy.. It was in Christmas when i realized he was a different person from that he pretended to be when he used to visit me in Spain.
I left him but i’m still not sure about what he wanted from me.


Happy Christmas to all at lovefraud

Happy Christmas Donna and Terry, may 2011 be a spath free heaven!

One of the “gifts” the creep inadvertently game me was a new found appreciation for normal people. After living with with his particular brand of evil, I value each new moment of freedom with new eyes and new heart, moving quickly away from red flags, knowing where they may’s another level, a whole other world. So lucky to find my way home…..

I raise a glass to everyone who found their way back home to safety no matter how damaged, there is beautiful new growth after evil, stronger more persistent than ever. Cheers!


Eva – the phrase, ‘“i want to share my special holidays with my special psychopath” is part of an article on a blog.

this phrase is something to say to ourselves when we want to contact them. because it sounds so ridiculous, it brings us back to reality.


Yes one step, i know it, i read the article. The phrase is higly humoristic because of the irony. I realise now funny means also wierd. I meant fun.
Isn’t it almost ridiculously fun we have to say that phrase aloud in order to forget not they’re deeply dangeros mentally and also physically? To face closely one of these creatures is a deeply perturbing experience, even if the encounter was relatively short and one scaped without huge collateral damage like in my case. I wonder why is so disturbing this experience.


hi Eva – okay, I just wanted to make sure. 🙂

We see the illusion and want it back, when the reality is feo y destructivo.

it is disturbing because it is so foreign. we have no context for their behavior. some of us think we must be at fault – because they make no sense. they exploit our weaknesses and our strengths. having a relationship with a spath shows us our own weaknesses. if we learn from the experience we become stronger. much stronger. it is a purificación.


Eva, I am new here as of yesterday, but you are right to trust your instincts. Spaths come packaged different ways. Once I realized that my ex BF was one I knew it. I didn’t want to believe it. I still don’t. That is why I had to come here before being tempted to believe otherwise again.

Like you said, it is an illusion. It isn’t him I want back it is who I thought he was or who I superimposed on him. He is actually not even that interesting.

Happy Holidays to all of you,


Ox Drover

Dear Eva,

Just like with your professor if they are in a position of power over us we must NOT OPENLY confront them, or they will use that power to hurt us in our job or in some other way. We just have to learn to TOLERATE Them, work around them, and survive until we can pass the class, or find another job, or get away from them in some other way.

Confronting them openly and saying to he “you are being unfair” is not always the best tactic, as I think you have found with this professor. So if we want to pass the class, we have to grovel before them in fake humility, which of course goes against our own wishes as we KNOW he is a jerk, and we WANT to tell him so, but if we do, he will make us flunk the class. Since you have insulted him by telling him off, he will want more than just a small apology from you, but he will want a humiliating one. You can give it to him and he MAY still flunk you, no matter how hard you study or how well you know your subject. There is no guarentee, but in the future you will know that when these disordered people have POWER OVER YOUR JOB OR CLASS, that you keep your mouth shut and don’t impulsively send off a nasty e mail or pop off at the mouth with a smart remark! LOL So in any case, it is a lesson you have learned. PSYCHOPATHS DON’T LIKE TO BE TOLD THEY ARE PSYCHOPATHS or that they are WRONG.

Also know there are DEGREES of psychopathic traits, from just irritating people to ones that will kill you, and all those inbetween.

Good luck with your class.

Ox Drover

Eva, I actually changed universities in mid degree to get away from an instructor that I thought was “mean” (I didn’t know about psychopathy then) but I knew I could not continue for 2 more years to “kiss her arse” and not get her mad at me (I am too outspoken for that!) but I was AFRAID of her because I had seen her persecute other students, primarily male students, but one female, to the point of insanity! And you had to take SEVERAL classes from this woman. I made it through the one class and then fled the Uni. It was a good decision. She finally got caught out persecuting males eventually but she was not fired, you can’t fire them, they have tenure. I am sure it did not change any of her tactics, just made her less obvious.


dear Eva – Most of us ask these questions:

‘…and i’m not sure if this is fair or i’m exagerating or i’m being a bit paranoid.’

y la respuesta es todas…mas o minos.
It takes study and time to understand when we are being careful, or paranoid and unfair.

I have been posting on lf for one year – after knowing the spath only 10 months months. I still struggle every day – i do not know if i am unfair, paranoid or exaggerating in each moment with another person. But, in time, the world will make sense, again. I need time to heal and learn more. During this time I have lost my freinds and cut my family from my life, so there are many new experiences to integrate, and to come to piece with. It will take a long time to feel confident in my judgement again.


CAmom – if you are out there, please call!


😀 Yes one step, i can see it is mostly the same process for all of us. I’m questioning too other relationships. It is as if the psychopath deprived us of our ability to hide things to ourselves. I know it’s going to be a long process, maybe a forever one. I met mine one year, plus several months that he was torturing me through email and phone. But i’ve survived him without aids, pregnancies or economical damage.
But now i have the spanish one who (now i understand his smiles in the past, that didn’t worked out) has gone directly to attack.
I don’t know which of the two is worse, i just know this second one scares me more than the other because this has real power, and i don’t think he’s less psychopath than the other (has the eyes, the emptiness, an arrogance that makes you shake and the violence is more evident than in the other one).
I’m going to study while i shake. ¡Malditos psicópatas sádicos! .D


I have a question. I realize this is a little off topic, but I’m wondering what I can learn about this.

FIRST, so many of us are suffering pain because our sociopath left us on their own accord and we were shocked and hurt. Yes, it’s good for the long haul of course, but I’m curious about the stories behind the sociopath-initiated reasons.

a) the sociopath got bored?
b) the sociopath found somebody more interesting?
c) ???

SECOND question,what can the victims do to actually get him or her to leave? Yes I believe in the long run that “NC” works, but what could we do to actively get him/her to say “YUCK?”.

Ox Drover


I think the answer to your question is usually a, b, or even c! LOL

As far as getting them to want to leave us, NC is about as good as it gets. Waiting for them to let go of our emotional teat is difficult as some of them do NOT want to give it up, it is kind of like weaning a calf, you have to kick them in the head and they will still not want to go away voluntarily. LOL


I made criticism: “i’m not satisfied with you” “you’re superficial” “you’re empty” “the only good thing you have is your dick” “i don’t want you” “you’re not good” “i don’t trust you” “don’t come” “cancel that flight” “why did you do this” “why did you that” “why did you say this” “what do you mean” “i don’t understand you” “i’m bored of you” “go to hell” “i don’t stand you” “why this” “why that” “why why why”
So his brain-computer got a bit tired and he said “i have to take care of me, i don’t trust you and i’ll get another woman”
Later he tried it again and planned a trip to Greece two months in advance, i said yes and a few days later no. He got mad and dessapeared till yesterday he sent a merry christmas email and i wished him happines in his psychopathic life. 😀

lesson learned

Oh my GOD, as I’m reading this I’m having a MAJOR half enlightenment LOL!!!

Something is at the bottom of this, not sure yet. I would appreciate feedback.

For the last year, year and a half or so, my discomfort around Spath INCREASED EXPONENTIALLY!! Stomach aches, headaches, my drinking increased, then stopped, then relapse when back with him, then stop….I felt this HORRIBLE sense of fear around him, ANXIETY to the max!! His pursuit, particularly the last two months, had been over the top, even while he was lying and pursuing other women with a vengeance…..he said he kept inviting me to be with him, out with him, etc, but I would LIE and tell him I couldn’t. Even though my heart didn’t want too,my body and intelligence, intuition KNEW he was building up for the big DISCARD…I didn’t trust him as far as I could THROW Him… body, my mind must have been telling me this…I DID have opportunity to be with him, CONSTANTLY,..but I couldn’t do it! I just couldn’t DO IT! I wanted too, but COULD NOT. The D and D DID come, but I don’t think it would have been nearly as painful if I had allowed myself to be sucked in more.

Anyone else have this experience? It’s very hard to articulate those feelings…that want but not wanting….that knowing, but not wanting to believe……

I kept confronting, asking the why’s, where’s what for’s and his behavior ESCALATED to MAJOR verbal emotional abuse…not like it wasn’t already just worse…..I was seeing the truth, his mask was dropping….Mr. Wonderful wasn’t anymore….There is this sense of guilt, of “what if” had I spent the time with him that he wanted me too…..but I just couldn’t DO it!!!

I know eventually I will be so glad that i didn’t!!!!

Was that my gutt? Even with all the emotional love bombing in wanting to “be” with me? I knew it wasn’t about oh maybe he loves me….it was a bigger lesson in paying attention to myself…what my body and mind were telling me….

Please tell me, does this sound familiar?

Eva i so relate!!!

About the professor situation? Oh my I can relate to that too! I STRONGLY believe one of mine this past term was with P traits for sure. As the class progressed, I found that he was doing some sabotaging with regards to materials. EVERY student in that class was struggling. It was online, and I was NOT afraid to confront IN ONLINE CLASS< what a LOUSY class I thought this was. Funny……other students started to respond…and we threatened to go to the Dean of STudents if something was NOT done about what was happening in the class……

We ALL passed the class. I reiterated to him in an email, over and over, that I thought the class needed to change format and provide appropriate materials for the number the class actually was. I was PISSED that my classmates were struggling so much, feeling disheartened and stupid and not ONE of them was at all. They were all VERY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE….

I don't know if I did the right thing in being the class cheerleader, but i do know at the time that the anger I was feeling over the discouragement the students were feeling only fueled my anger more in wanting change. He IGNORED all of it. Was a complete DICK about all of it. I've not decided yet as to whether or not I should pay a visit to the Dean of Students, along with a couple of folks in the class that have now become friends. Good people. It pisses me off beyond all belief when I see others hurt. I couldn't stand by and do nothing, but maybe in some cases, it's just not wise. If I run into this issue again, I shall surely approach it from a different perspective. I think maybe I got lucky this time…but next time, that may not be the case.

I wish you well with the jerky professor. What a nightmare that truly is!!!!!

What scares the hell out of me is what if I end up in a position of employment with a boss such as that? I've actually given that some thought. I'd leave. After my experiences, I don't think I'd hesistate in doing it. It's not worth the stress.



Good for you. Sounds like you repeatedly pointed out his flaws, and perhaps through that you “helped” the sociopath want to move on.

Ox Drover

Dear Lesson,

I did end up with a boss like that! More than once, and the last time I was WARNED but she “courted me” and “love bombed me” and PAID ME, and I took it….the prior time, she had come after I had been there for a while, and she ended up destroying an entire hospital which ended up being sold. But the one that woo’d me, was GOOD but when she went off on me, I was left with my MOUTH HANGING OPEN. I typed up my resignation that night and put it in her in-box the next morning, and she came into my office and said “Oxy, we need to talk” and I said, “No, you said enough yesterday” and that was the last time I spoke to her. I worked out 2 weeks and was gone.

I found out later that she had done that ‘GOING OFF ON” everyone in the place, but the others needed their jobs and couldn’t afford to quit, I was fortunate enough that I could and I did. The other time, I didn’t have another job and I did quit but got one almost immediately, at least that is a good part of being a nurse. But the thing I have learned is that you do what you have to to get by until you can bail out of the airplane that is crashing, a “controlled crash” as it were, but you can figure it is GOING TO HIT THE GROUND, so prepare for that evacuation. We don’t always have a parachute ready, or it may malfunction, but if we always know that we need to prepare ourselves in advance for an exit strategy then we are more likely to get out alive.

It is like when I go to a movie theater, I always look for the EXIT signs, and sit where I can easily access the exit in case of need. Same on an airliner, I always sit by the exit door when I book my tickets. I wear my seat belts in a vehicle and always carry a spare tire and some tools and things like that. BE PREPARED is a good motto. I have a fire extinguisher in my kitchen. I have a smoke detector in my house and a carbon monoxide detector because I heat with gas. My precautions won’t stop everything that could go wrong, but they are reasonable measures that I can take to protect myself. Protecting yourself professionally and financially is always a good idea too. We should not be BOXED IN a corner any more than we can prevent. BE PREPARED.


hi, your 2nd question: how do we get them to leave is similar to your 1st question: what made them leave, were we boring?

CAn’t answer the 1st but 2nd answer is: BE BORING, GO GRAY ROCK.

I had left my spath, the poster child of sociopathy, many times in 25 years but only the last time “took”. I met a man who explained what a malignant narcissist was. this man, greg, was a lawyer who had been with a narcissistic woman and he knew that if he left her she would stalk him. (he had been raised by a N father) So he just bored her away. He would not act interested in anything. Showed NO EMOTION. They can’t stand that. They feed on emotion.
I tried it and it worked. Also tell them you have no money.


Just saw Fried Green Tomatoes–TOWANDA!
I never got the meaning of TOWANDA in many posts here, just intuitively knew it was a good cheer.

Merry Christmas, happy New Year to all. Happy Chrisma-hanu-kwanza! 🙂

Ox Drover

Hey, DW,

How are you doing!? Did you have a good holiday! I sure hope so! I’m spending my “holiday” cleaning house and am on the last room now, and have found the FLOOR in my office, and my P-iling system is becoming a F-iling system again! Won’t be done today (I’ve just gone slowly!) but will be finished tomorrow and will have a totally clean house to start the new year with! What better present could I have bought myself? Nothing better!

Glad you enjoyed the movie, isn’t it wonderful! Sleep well and have a peaceful week ahead looking toward the New Year with MUCH LESS DRAMA!!! (((HUGS)))))


I cleaned house too. I washed kitchen cabinets inside and out (just the dishes part),and Pledge oiled them to make them shiny. A bit OCD, but why not.
Holiday quiet but nice. I am glad you are preparing things for a very CLEAN new year. :):)

Ox Drover

Dear DW,

I did the same thing on the cabinets in kitchen, had cleaned out the insides a couple of weeks ago, so only had to do the outsides, but got that done and they looked so nice.

My office is a pit though, and dust an inch thick and so having to do a “clean sweep” of everything in there but throwing out a lot of stuff. Yes, it does make you feel good to have your environment in order and neat. It is something over which we have ABSOLUTE CONTROL and that is a nice feeling…especially if like in your case there is so much over which you have NO control that interferes in your life and your space, and your peace (with your daughter as well). It will get better though, even if only by little baby steps, and he will lose interest in you, especially when you don’t react to him. Maybe instead of standing up and confronting him, you can just “stone face” him and pretend you don’t see him. Or “Potted plant” routine.

If it is too difficult for you to go to your daughter’s games, you might talk to her about that and just be honest with her that it is so stressful on you that you are going to take a break from it for a while and assure her that you will do other things with her and that it has nothing to do with her, just him and how he acts. But it is YOUR decision however you handle it. ((((Hugs))))


Happy Holidays to eveyone:
I checked my astrology for the winter months and for Cancer:

Cancer (June 21 – July 22)
The sensual side of Capricorn will get your juices flowing despite the cold. With an eclipse of the Sun in this earthy sign and your 7th House of Love taking place on Jan. 4, look for dramatic changes in the way you prioritize your love life. If you’re happily attached, a major decision could be made that ties you closer together. Should you be in a relationship in need of adjustment or repair, this will be the winter when you roll up your sleeves and do the hard work. Avoid being clingy. You could find, especially with Mars also in your 7th house through mid-January, that the old adage about letting something you love go to see if it’s worth keeping is more than senseless greeting card fluff.

It’s the last line that hit the nail on the head!!!

You can check your winter astrology at AOL.Com


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