How to recognize and recover from the sociopaths – narcissists in your life › Forums › Lovefraud Community Forum – General › Breaking it off: would confronting with evidence help?
February 9, 2018 at 5:41 pm #44046
Mine is a relatively lucky story. My sociopath (“SP”) and I have been in a long term relationship for 4 years. I am a single mum of a 6 yo, when were met I was going through a pretty nasty divorce (from a narcissistic father of my child, yes I’ve “graduated” from NP to SP) which took 2 years to complete. During this time I’ve heard multiple “moving to your city in 8 weeks” story. Long story short, about 18 months ago I’ve started seeing a number of red flags and have been slowly disengaging myself emotionally (I have enrolled into a post graduate school, made new friends at my son’s school, rebuild my relationship with my parents). Told him I was not prepared to move in with him or get married if there is no prenup (he would get angry, start gaslighting me (a pre nup can be challenged’ “you’ll get my money anyway”, “if people love each other they give each everything”, you name it (note: he is 15 yrs older than me). I stood my ground, returned an engagement ring and took my spare key back after 6 months of arguing over a prenup. I offered to continue two cities on a casual basis, catching up 2-3 nights a fortnight as sex was good (but at a hotel, not my place). He did not like it (I want you to be my wife”. He had 2 ex wives, 1 child out of wedlock and a current long term partner he forgot to tell me about (“we just own a house together now, it’s cheaper. We have not had sex for 8 years”). I am not stupid so I had him followed by a PI; have an evidence of that ongoing relationship (on dates where he was allegedly for work in a completely different state). Also did a full background check: he lied about everything, date of birth, place/country of birth; names of him parents, school and university he went to; property ownership (“I owned a penthouse”, in reality only rented”). He is still pursuing me (sex is fantastic, so I met him at a 5 star hotel twice. He is not allowed into my place again). I would like to tell him that I had him followed and have evidence of his second life, that’s why I do not want it to continue as it was. But I am not sure if it would be too dangerous. I believe he was going to continue double life, live with me in one city and her in another, and as he travels for work, we would be none the wiser. It’s only after my divorce was settled I started noticing the oddities – e.g. staying at hotels when in his city; he did not introduce me to friends or his dad, that I started slowly doing investigations, putting a full picture together and emotionally untangling myself. My psychologist believes confronting him is too. Dangerous. Told me to give him a vague (not working for me anymore; don’t want to be married again”, don’t have time for a relationship etc etc). I was behaving obtuse, defiant and irrational for the past few months in a hope he’d dump me but he did not so far (I’d rather he did, as he’s feel in control then and more likely not to return). Thoughts from the community appreciated!
February 10, 2018 at 10:49 am #44055
If you feel that it is too dangerous then don’t do it. If you do confront him he will just lie and cover everything up and get angry at you. You are better off just avoiding him, and tell him that its just not going to work out. Please be aware that sociopaths don’t play nice and they like to seek revenge, so be careful. This guy sounds like a total looser and a waist of time to even get hurt over.
February 10, 2018 at 6:54 pm #44068
Thank you for your comment, it is healing for me to hear from others to listen to my gut. The advice from my counsellor, close friends and from my own studies (I am doing a post grad in family law mediation, so family violence and personality disorders are of my curriculum (this is why I started to see red flags and controlling behaviours early on, before he moved in). Everything says to use: “it’s not you, it’s me. I’ve realised I do not want to be married or live with someone again, my son and study are my priorities. Too scared of commitment, you deserve better etc”. Make it all about bad me, good him. I also have to be careful not to make him angry.
February 10, 2018 at 1:39 pm #44063
Thirdtimelucky, you have an amazing gut reaction to this man!! Listen to your gut! Your gut will ALWAYS tell you the truth!!!
Google: “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to remind yourself to ALWAYS listen to your gut.
Thank goodness you hired a PI. This is exactly what you have to do, when dealing with a sociopath, as the sociopath will gas light you so much with regards to the uncovering of their lies only to twist your mind up to not believe your gut. With a PI, you have proof your gut is telling you the truth.
As for telling this sociopath what you have uncovered, my advise, is DO NOT TELL HIM ANYTHING!!
This is for your safety.
You do not know if you would harmed you or this other person he is living with, because he does not want the other person that he is living with to learn the truth. So best to slowly implement the “Grey Rock Method” (do a search here on lovefruad for info on this) and slowly close the door on this relationship.
Donna (site creator of Lovefraud) has written many article on the “great sex” with a sociopath. This is one of the RED FLAGS that you are dealing with a sociopath. So I would suggest that you look these articles up.
You should know that it is extremely common for a victim of a sociopath to become a sex addicts while with a sociopath, due to the fact the sociopath is manipulating your brain with mind control (brain washing). Donna has also written articles on this subject. Ask yourself: have I become addicted to sex because this sociopath has manipulated me.
When I escaped my ex h, a sociopath, I found out that he had been cheating with 3 women in 2 different states (maybe 5 not sure about 2). All on “business trips”. No doubt there were also many one night stands by him too.
When I told my counselor after leaving that I thought he had cheated on my 8 to 12 times, she told me that it was more like 3 to 4 times that amount, as that is what sociopaths do = Serial cheaters.
So most likely this guy you are with has MANY victims in his girps not just you & this other person he shares a home with. Beware that you could end up with some STD that will kill you. He might even be cheating with hookers and/or same sex partners as this again is what sociopaths do.
With regards to this other person that ““we just own a house together now, it’s cheaper. We have not had sex for 8 years””. This is a huge RED FLAG that he is married or in a serious long term relationship. And know that he is most likely have sex with this woman (possibly his wife) also. My ex h & I had an active sex life while he was cheating on his “business trips”. Sick to even stomach this part of the nightmare I lived. They lie about everything especially if they are married or in a long term relationship. Look up the term “pathological liar” & “sociopath pathological liar” here at love fraud & also on the net.
Read up on “sociopath madonna whore complex”.
My advise again is to “gray rock” and guy out of your life and then slam the door shut for good. Sociopath always try to boomerang back into a past targets life because they know how to manipulate that victim. So again, slowly slam the door shut with grey rock on this sociopath.
Your counselor is giving you excellent advise with regards to not telling this sociopath what you have uncovered.
February 10, 2018 at 7:54 pm #44071
Thank you for telling me to listen to my gut and using the Grey Rock method (googled it!).
Whilst I am tempted to “gain an upper hand” and tell him everything I know on one level (“stick it up yours”), I know that people like him can be very dangerous (and he did make comments like “I have no trouble killing a person. Cannot kill an animal but a person is a piece of cake”. Yep, that’s when I told him to get out. He also over 4 years told me numerous times “I do not have empathy because I was abused as a child by my parents and in a boarding school”. Empathetic me felt sorry and maternal towards him and thought that my love would soften him up (how wrong I was – having done my studies and research, I fully get it that it is not possible to rehabilitate him).)
Re trusting my gut: I was burnt twice before by not listening (losing around $1.5m on a failed business I was forced into by a former partner; not insisting on a prenup and being coerced into a marriage after knowing my son’s dad for 10 months (“soulmate” after 2 weeks; if you don’t marry me – you may miss out on being a mum” (I was 35 at the time, desperately wanted a child so said yes. Married in secret before he met my parents or I met his. Then he proceeded trying to borrow money from my parents). So this is why I am third time lucky indeed!
Because of the studies I’ve been doing I can see how SP hooked me:
– we met on line and he expertly mirrored me both in online chat and in person (“I went to a boarding school” – “me too”; I love XYZ – “me too”. My perfect mirror – it’s like falling in love with yourself! Note that last week when we met for dinner I did not do eye contact and wait for him to speak. He could not mirror and was very uncomfortable with silence. So the mirror has been broken)
The same with sex – he slowly proceeded from kissing to more to then somehow it got kinkier and kinkier (A bit of kink is fine. However, I had to put a firm boundary about going to swingers or having sex in public).
You are correct about testing for STI – he made comments about never having unprotected sex in the past (of course no sex but with me for the past 4 years!). Made an appointment with my GP.
How I started to see the lies? 18 months ago I ended up in a hospital; he was not there for me when I was discharged (family in Europe; just me and my son. Luckily my friends cooked for me. Did not see him for 2 weeks). It was like a light bulb moment: “what do I know about this man?”
So I started with company register searches: turned out he was 5 years older than he told me (15 not 10 year age gap as I was told, to him it’s not a big deal. To me it is); company registers had 3 places of birth in 3 different countries (the one he told me was the most recent one).
I did a search of birth/death/marriages registries and found out his date of birth matching UK but in a city different to company registers (that’s assuming his surname, DOB and name are real).
Checked property ownership registers: found out he lied about extensive property portfolios, found that he owned a house jointly with another woman (was told he did not own any property. This is how I found out about “just a friend” and hired a PI to monitor the address when SP was away “on business”).
I did further background checks and found out he lied about being at a boarding school in the UK; has never been in RAF/officer/pilot; never been to any of the unis he told me (his most recent qualification checked out okay, but his income is probably 20% of he told me it was).
Whilst checking company registers noticed his ex wives always were shareholders in his companies (potentially used them for money).
Found out an undisclosed earlier marriage He dismissed it as “nothing”, but lasted 11 years (considering he told me very intimate details of his sex escapades, he just forgot this one??).
Found out he child was born out of wedlock whilst married to wife no 1.
Found out he married wife no. 2 when his daughter was 1 yo (apparently the daughter’s mother was a sociopath who walked out on him when the child was 2 and would not allow any contact with his daughter until 2 years ago). Apparently he divorced wife no 2 as she was a cheater and loved group sex; he caught her in the act. She broke his heart and he swore off marriage ever again until he met me, his soulmate.
His current wife/de facto (“just a friend”) – the poor woman is 60, works as a waitress whilst he is spending money on me. Makes me sick to know that I have been “the other woman” without my knowledge and consent.
Discovered a string of failed businesses (“my business partners were crooks”)
So this is how I have been slowly disengaging from him/breaking the bond: by getting more and more knowledge. Talking to my close friends about it. Writing down the facts (using notes on my phone) and looking at them if feeling emotional.
I have also seen red flags as to how he was with my son – e.g. saying “I am looking forward to the day he brings teenage girls home”. I also heard him teaching my 6 yo sexist comments and swearing. After that told him not to see me when my son is around (“you are just overreacting, I am trying to make him a real man”). That’s when a Mama Bear instinct kicked in.
As you can see, this man is indeed dangerous and a classic SP.
A part of me is tempted to contact his daughter or his ex wife (no 2) via Facebook, see what their true story is. But my gut tells me “let sleeping dogs lie”. SP lives in a different city. The only link we have is that he lets me drive his company car. I am thinking of returning the car ASAP and buying myself a new one. Then I have no links to him.
Last note: I can see how my family of origin issues (brought up in a strict Christian family where a woman is subservient to a man, divorce is frowned upon (my parents have been married for 45 years despite infidelity and mutual emotional and physical abuse) and does not question him as long as he financially supports her) and emotional vulnerability (post divorce, living overseas with no nearby) and having a good career/income potential made me a target for him and my narcissistic father of my son. Hopefully Karma will reward me now and I have broken the cycle!
February 10, 2018 at 9:07 pm #44072
Hi thirdtimelucky, you have been living a NIGHTMARE with this sociopath! YES!! His behavior & pathological lying is classic sociopathic behavior. He has been twisting your mind up since day on…he is scamming you.
Sociopaths always come up with a plausible rapid response to you, when start to unearthing their lies. They are masters at this! They quickly turn your head away from your gut instinct. And this guy has all the quick lies to try to turn your head away from your gut. HE IS A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR!! He is a con man!! EVERYTHING this guy is telling you is a LIE!! EVERYTHING from his age, to who he lives with, to what he owns everything! They lie, when you expose their lie, they lie, pretty soon you have 100’s of lies a day to uncover = One lie is too many!!
HE IS A MARCHING BAND OF RED FLAG LIES!!
“Whilst I am tempted to “gain an upper hand” and tell him everything I know on one level (“stick it up yours”), I know that people like him can be very dangerous…”
Every victims wants revenge on a sociopath for the deception & evilness the sociopath inflicted on us. DO NOT RESPOND TO HIM OR TELL HIM WHO HE IS...he already knows he is not normal he knows he runs scams on people and right now this guy is running a scam on you for your money & assets.
The best revenge on a sociopath is to CLOSE THE DOOR ON THEM & FOLLOW THE NO CONTACT RULE once you initiate the grey rock method.
Sociopaths HATE being ignores = perfect revenge on them. Sociopath hate losing control of their target scam victims = perfect revenge on them. Walk away. Sociaoths want power & control over others = best revenage is to free yourself & take back your power by walking away from them!!
If you feel you need for more information, which btw is normal for a vicim wanting ALL the details of what they did/lies/conned out of us, you can always find his divorce papers in public records & read what his wife stated in court records. You will most likely find the answers without calling his #2. If you are in the States you just need the known address of where he was living at the time of his divorce & go to the county clerks office of that city that he got divorced in.
You state: “Found out he married wife no. 2 when his daughter was 1 yo (apparently the daughter’s mother was a sociopath who walked out on him”
Did he tell you she was a sociopath or someone else?
If he told you this then he is using “narcissistic projection” (google) when he calls his ex wife a “sociopath”. This guy knows who he is!! HEED THE WARNING & FOLLOW THE GREY ROCK METHOD FOLLOWED BY THE “No contact rule” (search on love fraud & the net for this).
RIGHT NOW YOU ARE IN DANGER SO IS YOUR SON. SO BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL NOT TO TIP OFF WHAT YOU HAVE FOUND OUT ABOUT HIM & HIS LIES. DO NOT TELL HIM YOU HIRED A PI OR THAT YOU HAVE BEEN SEARCHING PUBLIC RECORDS = VERY DANGERS!!
THE MOST DANGEROUS TIME FOR A WOMAN IN A ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP IS WHEN SHE IS READY TO LEAVE OR HAS JUST LEFT. So please be careful. You can call the National Domestic Abuse hotline 800-799-SAFE to talk with a free counselor about a “Domestic abuse exit & safety plan”
Part of breaking free from a sociopath is educating yourself on the cunningness & manipulation sociopath has been play on you! You are doing a great job at this. YOU HAVE BEEN UNDER HIS SPELL AKA MIND CONTROL (brain washing) literally. This is why you are still searching for more info on him (which is good) and not running away, your mind is still locked into his brain washing. So keep reading & keep unearthing his lies. Write everything down so when you start the grey rock you have a list of things that he has done to you & this will open your mind to keep him out of your life for good.
He is your cult leader & you are his cult follower. So the more you read & analyses your relationship the more steps you take towards breaking of this ABUSIVE relationship for good.
DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE IN A ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP?
Do you know that pathological lying is emotional, mental & verbal abuse?
Do you know that cheating is emotional & mental abuse?
Do you know that when a partner is pushing your boundaries it’s abuse?
Do you know when a partner tries endlessly to push your sexual boundaries is abuse?
“The same with sex – he slowly proceeded from kissing to more to then somehow it got kinkier and kinkier (A bit of kink is fine. However, I had to put a firm boundary about going to swingers or having sex in public).”
This is what sociopaths do!! They have a mate i.e. wife/live in gf at home to take care of the house i.e. laundry, cooking, cleaning, taking care of the kids, car, yard, EVERYTHING while they do nothing at home….
And then they have endless affairs to feed their sexual addiction pushing everyones boundaries with kinky sex/swingers clubs/hookers/same sex/threesomes/couples sex etc. 70-90% of sex addicts are sociopath/psychopaths. (not victims of sociopaths that end up addicted temporally to sex because of the sociopath brain washing)
This guy is A SEXUAL PERVERT TIMES 1000. No doubt he IS doing these things with others right now & in his past. However, “I had to put a firm boundary about going to swingers or having sex in public).” Since he was pushing you with these things = Not his first time pushing a target victims to feed his sexual addiction. His sexual behavior is very common with sociopath, I have read endless post just like yours.
This is why I want you to look up the term “SOCIOPATH MADONNA WHORE COMPLEX”….these sociopaths have the wife/gf at home for the “Madanna” part & then troll anyone & everyone for the “whore” portion (NO YOU ARE NOT A WHORE…THIS IS JUST A TEXT BOOK TERM TO DESCRIBE THE SOCIOPATH MENTALITY!! please know this.
Reading up on the Madonna Whore complex educated me on the fact my ex h was never going to change his way & that everyone of the women that he had an affair with or a one night stand were also victims of him (a sociopath). This term will give you the understand as to where you fit into this sociopath life. They do NOT bond with anyone. Not their parents, family, wife, gf, mistress, co workers, friend = no one. They see people as objects. Right now you are nothing more then a means to feed his sex addiction.
THANK GOODNESS YOU FOLLOWED YOUR GUT, THANK GOODNESS YOU STARTED TO PUT 2 X 2 TOGETHER ABOUT HIS LIES, THANK GOODNESS YOU SEARCHED ON THE NET WHICH LEAD YOU TO LOVEFRAUD & COUNSELING & POSTING HERE TODAY!!
This is POWERFUL thirdtimelucky!!
These are huge steps in you leaving this sociopath for good!!
(I’ll write again later)
February 10, 2018 at 10:55 pm #44075
Thank you and looking forward to further feedback from you. Googled “Madonna-Whore” complex, very illuminating and makes sense (he is addicted to porn also).
I also read on Grey Rock method and understand why it is an important tool.
But could I go No Contact?
February 10, 2018 at 1:51 pm #44066
ps: You state:Told him I was not prepared to move in with him or get married if there is no prenup (he would get angry, start gaslighting me (a pre nup can be challenged’ “you’ll get my money anyway”, “if people love each other they give each everything”, you name it”.
This guy is after your money!!
If he is married he will just get engaged to you but never married to you so there is no laws being broken (married to two people at once) with a pre nup you could sue him for his lies.
Not sure what is going on with him but know that him fighting for no prenup is a HUGE HUGE RED FLAG that you need to take notice of. After I had proof of my ex h about my ex 2 year affair with a co worker & he begged me to stay, I told him I would require a postnup agreement and he went into a rage…why? because he was not going to end the relationship with this other person or any of the women he was serial cheating with and “lose” assets. When they go into a rage about something that is a time you really start to know they are hiding something BIG!! This guy is hiding something BIG with his rage regarding your request of a prenup!
Remember ALL sociopaths are CON ARTIST. They are always running a con game, for sex, a place to live, use of a car, for your business connections or your MONEY etc.
Just read up on how much Donna lost during her marriage to a con artist. Being married to my ex h I lost everything I had earned & worked for. So BEWARE!!
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Jan7.
February 10, 2018 at 7:10 pm #44069
Thank you – you are spot on with the money theory. When we met, I have been in the middle of family law proceedings. SP pushed and pushed me to go after my ex for property (I did not do it, we each kept own assets as had a very short (3 year) relationship and did not accumulate any joint property). SP keeps going on about it two years on (“you should have got 2-3 million”). He kept talking moving into my city for 3 years. Then I (stupidly) told him that my dad would help me to pay off my mortgage (which I took out to pay for family lawyers). I started pushing for pre nup and could not understand why he did not want one (for a man of 59 (I am 43) who was (according to him) fleeced by 3 exes and who has (according to him) a very successful business and expecting an inheritance, it did not make sense to me he did not want one. The money from family came through before Christmas, he started to move his clothes in. When I saw his underwear in a drawer, I threw up (literally). Told him to take everything out of my place, give me back my key (which he did). He asked me for my engagement ring back (I returned – was probably fake anyway!). Since then he tried to use threats (pre nup is not valid as we have been de facto for the last 3 years – not true, I sought legal advice on that one) or tears (why are you destroying such a perfect relationship) or “I have always been generous, can’t you see I am wealthy?” (no, the father of my son had 5 credit cards with $250,000 in debt to fake 5 star lifestyle, I do not trust anyone now until I see figures and tax returns). I stood my ground, told him I want a valuation of his business (or copies of bank statements for the last 3 years – I am a qualified accountant in my prior career, can do a valuation myself); copies of his pension account and valuation of his (alleged) rare coin collection. Also want to meet his father and school friends (who are in the UK, have never met him in 4 years) before he moves in. I am hoping he dumps me pronto – he keeps saying “I feel cornered and in a check mate”. Slowly cutting back on communications – told him too busy studying, cannot see him for 2 weeks and cut texts back to 6 yesterday, target of 5 today (setting a timer so that not tempted to text until it goes off, by that stage the craving to text passes. It is like weaning myself off a drug, isn’t it?”)
February 11, 2018 at 3:06 am #44077
thirdtimelucky, Mary Ann Glynn (a therapist) states in an interview that confusion is a top sign you are in a abusive relationship. Do a search up at the top of love fraud with the word “confusion” & watch the interview video of Donna interviewing Mary Ann, it’s powerful.
Donna also just posted on the main post on the home page that Mary Ann Glynn has a free internet support group so read that post on how to watch it & maybe take the time to join in this support group. Mary Ann is extremely informed & incredible articulate at breaking down a abusive relationship. I think it would be very beneficial for you to leave this man for good.
Mary Ann Glynn, LCSW, to host free online support group on Sunday, Feb. 18, 2018 at 5 pm EST
This guy has been confusion you since day one with his lies & deception. Telling you he is moving to your town for 3 years…LIE!! Confusing you with regards not wanting to sign a prenup…DECEPTION!! Teaching your child about sexist…crossing all boundaries!! He is a sick man for teaching your child about sexist. HIS MIND IS EXTREMELY SICK to do this to a child. This is one of the biggest reasons you need to get this man out of your life & most important your sons life how is to young & vulnerable to understand the magnitude of this evil sociopath.
: ” have also seen red flags as to how he was with my son – e.g. saying “I am looking forward to the day he brings teenage girls home”. I also heard him teaching my 6 yo sexist comments and swearing.”….
this to me is terrifying!!! He may be grooming your son for sex with him or with his future young girlfriends. PLEASE PLEASE do not let your son around this man!!
Everything I read that you posted he said to you is all DECEPTION. The fact that he is lying to you about his ex wives just makes me believe that he is not only hiding LOTS but also that he is using “Sociopath triangulation” (do a search here at LF & the net for this term) to keep all of you from share information & piecing everything together about his double life he lives.
He is also using “Sociopath smear campaign” (do a search on this term on LF & the net) to make you believe that his past relationships did not work out because of them not him. This is used to make you trust him more = bond you more to him = not listening to your gut. All lies once again.
” The only link we have is that he lets me drive his company car. I am thinking of returning the car ASAP and buying myself a new one. Then I have no links to him”
YES!! GIVE BACK THE CAR!! before you do make photo copies of his car registration & insurance cards & take photos with a witness i.e. friend or family member of the inside of the car & outside, if there are in dents in the car take photos of them. You never know how he is going to react when you return the care & may damage it then get you arrested for what he did to the care. This is how you must think when dealing with a sociopath = cover yourself incase they get into a rage and want your life to be destroyed. They are know for getting innocent people arrested because they can easily manipulate the police with lies.
With regards to following the “no contact rule” vs grey rocking” right away, speak with your counselor as he/she has been healing the full story & will know best at how to guide you.
I would highly recommend that when you do start the process of getting him out of your life that you get a home security system if you dont already have one & inform your neighbors that if they seem him to call the police.
Also if he is friends with your friends & family before you cut him out to be sure to tell them exactly what is going on & why you are cutting him out of your life otherwise he might start a “sociopath smear campaign” (do a search on this term here at lf & on the net) & as a result you lose friends & family members because of his lies.
Losing friends & family because of a sociopaths smear campaign happens often. I lost life long friends because of my ex sociopath husband lies to friends & almost everyone that comes here has too. So beware!
” Then I have no links to him.
Last note: I can see how my family of origin issues (brought up in a strict Christian family where a woman is subservient to a man, divorce is frowned upon (my parents have been married for 45 years despite infidelity and mutual emotional and physical abuse..”
YES! You were conditioned to be a target for a sociopath & narcissist. But also Steven Hassan author of Freedom of mind states that the most likely time for someone to enter into a cult or domestic abusive relationship (both are the same just different sizes) is when the person has a life change such as a DIVORCE, a new job, moving to a new town, going off to college, empty nest etc etc.
Why this time? because your guard is down dealing with the emotional changes…sociopaths can spot a vulnerable person a mile away, just like a shark can spell blood miles away.
For me, I just moved to a new state for a new job. I was lonely and he was a friend of a friend…I had zero interest in dating him, moving in with him or marrying him…but he kept pushing my boundaries to get what he wanted & loved bombed me….You were going thru a divorce…very emotional time & also very emotional & mentally draining time…this guy saw this and knew he had an easy mark for his con game.
: “The money from family came through before Christmas, he started to move his clothes in. When I saw his underwear in a drawer, I threw up (literally).”
This is what they do…they dont ask they just cross boundaries without a care for how you would feel.
YOUR GUT ALARM WAS SCREAMING when you threw up!! Our body & brain warn us but we too often ignore the warnings. This is one of the biggest lessons for me too, I had a very strong gut reaction especially when meeting my ex. But I ignored my gut & he stated to Love bombed me (do a search on this here at love fraud) the other term is grooming a victim.
Read the book: The Gift Of fear by Gavin Debecker (also google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to watch their powerful interview on the subject_
“(why are you destroying such a perfect relationship) or “I have always been generous, can’t you see I am wealthy?” (no, the father of my son had 5 credit cards with $250,000 in debt to fake 5 star lifestyle, I do not trust anyone now until I see figures and tax returns”
YOU ARE VERY SMART & your gut was telling you, that you needed information to verify his story because your gut was screaming to you that he was be deceptive.
This guy is lying to you about everything!
Watch ALL of the videos up at the top of LF under the red tab marked “Videos” they will open your mind up.
“Also want to meet his father and school friends (who are in the UK, have never met him in 4 years) before he moves in. I am hoping he dumps me pronto – he keeps saying “I feel cornered and in a check mate””
This guy is married…that is my personal opinion. So many have come to love fraud & stated the same = never met his friends or family. They did not know that they were really the guys mistress.
“he keeps saying “I feel cornered and in a check mate”.”
My ex h use to throw these type of line out to me…I would be baffled by his comments. I believe this guy is telling you that you have caught him at his game and you have won = check mate = sociopaths love to play mind games, it’s fun for them = its sick & twisted mindset of theres. He knows you were onto his lies by asking for all of his credit info, etc etc. He can not give you those because he is hiding a double life.
My advise is to talk to your counselor about the grey rock method & the no contact rule to decide the best course of action. Sociopaths are dangerous when you break it off..so this is why I think your counselor can guide you best since you have been giving more specific info to him/her.
Please know that sociopaths target kind hearted, hardworking, normal minded, giving people. This is you! You have been thru so much with a marriage to a narcissist then divorce court now this sociopath. I’m so sorry that you are enduring all of this pain. There is light at the end of the tunnel. So keep moving forward to get this guy out of your life for good.
YOU DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER THEN WHAT YOU ARE SETTLING FOR. Run this guy’s car license plates & registration to find out more info of who really owes the car & also do a search on this company… because no doubt you will find out information about his double life.
Hope this helps out. Take care.
February 11, 2018 at 11:53 pm #44097
thirdtimelucky, Just wanted to add, the term he used “Checkmate” is a Chess term. In the game of chess your goal is to capture all the piece, if you capture the King, you state “checkmate” meaning the other opponent can not move his King & thus the game is over.
I believe this guy said this to you when you were calling out his lies…thus he knew his con game was over, you were onto him.
Here is the definition of “Checkmate”:
Also called mate. Chess.
an act or instance of maneuvering the opponent’s king into a check from which it cannot escape, thus bringing the game to a victorious conclusion.
the position of the pieces when a king is checkmated.
a complete check; defeat:
My ex would also blurt out these odd phrases, on he would use was “create a distraction”…meaning he needed me business doing something that he would create so that he could go & cheat with one of his mistress. These little blurt out of no where are RED FLAGS that they are very cunning & manipulative sociopaths (at least that is my perception of this type of behavior).
February 12, 2018 at 3:27 am #44099
Thank you for explaining. I am through 72 hours of Grey Rocking (3 days before I see my psychologist to fine tune strategy). Organizing a new car ASAP so that his company car can be returned.
I have not heard much from him since last Wednesday. Good morning/good night/how are you? I am giving bland responses: studied all weekend, going to bed early. Working today. Picking my son up from school. How is your day?
Friendly but neutral.
He is barely responding if at all. Not sure if it is a good sign or bad.
Re my son: he has not seen SP for 3 weeks. Today asked when SP is going to visit. Told him he was busy with work, not sure when. I do not want my little one to experience more trauma, he had some fun memories (we all had) especially in the first 3 years. But SP would always let us down: “coming for 3 days – out after 1 night “working”.
Little one is already exposed to his NP dad half the time and there is a high chance he may have the same traits as grows up. So I rather he remembered SP as his fun friend, he does not need to know or remember the bad things. Suggestions appreciated (my boy is 6, has known this guy since 3 and a bit).
February 12, 2018 at 1:47 pm #44101
If your kid is showing signs of anti social personality traits this young then better start getting him treated now. Please take care of your kids mental health now before he gets older and it’s too late. You can starting put him in counseling, or behavioral therapy if you are worried. You don’t want another sociopath in your life destroying you and other peoples lives….
February 12, 2018 at 11:43 pm #44105
Hi thirdtimelucky, with regards to your son, I think he is one lucky little guy to get a wonderful mother like you. ? You have seen the RED flags with this sociopath & have been making the necessary safe steps out of this abusive relationship. You also, are aware of his father’s personality disorder. I think that you need to be careful though about making this sociopath a “fun friend”, your son in the future may gravitate towards these kind of people “fun” people in school, sports, college, romance or work and end up in a similar situation as you are right now. So, some how you have to teach him a life lesson about how to surround yourself with good people in life. How to do this? Not sure, you will have to think carefully about how to express this to your son, not just now but in his future & ask your counselor for advise as well.
To me, educating your children about how to spot a sociopath & narcissist IS one of the most important life lessons you can pass on. Just imagine if we all were educated on this & following our gut feelings. Teaching your son to follow his gut instinct like a wild animals does to survive will help him in relationships & also at a future career job.
1 in 25 people are sociopaths & 1 in 5 have narcissists personality disorder…and narcissism in our society with social media & “selfie photos” are now an all time high & growing. So your son needs to be educated on how to spot one of these abusive people & how to grey rock and go no contact with them. Obviously, at a 6 year old level now & gradually increase the specifics as he approaches 18 & starts to want to soar on his own. I often wonder what our world is going to be like in 10 years with all of these narcissistic Hollywood & Pro athletes teaching kids about materialist goods endlessly. It’s turning into a extremely narcissistic scary world. Give your son the tools to navigate his future.
With that said, right now your main focus is for you to get out of this abusive relationship for good, heal & then you will have peace of mind to educate your son.
As for his father, teach your son empathy & compassion but also to listen to his gut instinct about people, like angelstar stated a counselor will help with his fathers behavior. But, also know that a narcissist parent (his father) may fight to prevent him from seeing a counselor so that he (father) is not exposed to the outside world. So, if his father fights you on your son seeing a counselor then you could involve your son in group sports etc with a good sports coach which will give him the foundation from a good leader so your son will sees how a real man is kind & hardworking. But, interview the coach & interview parents first on which sports coach or activity directors are “best”.
I know that we have been talking “business” here giving you info that will help you to move forward but I want you to know that you should be so proud of yourself. You have made so many positive steps to heal & are making amazing steps with raising your son. It’s not easy to leave a sociopath, and I know that your heart is hurting & you are most likely crying & sad.
SO hang in there, you will see only sunshine soon. Hugs to you. ?
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Jan7.
February 13, 2018 at 4:54 am #44108
Thank you again and for the compliment of being a good mum. That’s the most important thing to remember.
Just thought to update where things are at: Grey Rocking and boring. Not much is going at the other end (good morning, good night. SP stopped initiating texting). The calmness/lack of drama worries me. Also it is like weaning myself off drugs: 3 days I ok with Grey Rock. Day 4 wanted to call him (I suppose it is an addiction after 4 years).
To keep my son and myself self (We are in a secure apartment block):
1. Should I tell the neighbours that we are no longer together (without giving specifics) so that he cannot claim he forgot the keys and wait for me to get home/cause a scene)?
2. He has not tried physically hurt me (or anyone in my presence). But he did say to “I have no trouble killing a man. Easy. I have no empathy”. And he repeatedly said to me “love you to death”. Should I be paranoid and concerned? Or be cautious but do not get paranoid?
He lives interstate. Has no keys to my place.
February 12, 2018 at 11:44 pm #44106
ps CONGRULATIONS ON 3 DAYS OF GREY ROCKING THIS sociopath!! ?????
February 13, 2018 at 6:17 pm #44112
Hi thridtimelucky, you’re welcome!
Part of “grey rocking” is starting to part ways…”cant talk to you for a few days because ________”, “cant talk, studying” etc. Slowly start backing away, and also skip the call when he calls just let it go to voice mail & dont listen to the voice mail, you know it’s all manipulation & lies already. And most importantly his words are cult leader brain washing words. This until you talk to your counselor about the best way to end this.
IS YOUR COUNSELOR KNOWLEDBLE WITH SOCIOPATHIC BEHAVIOR & ABUSE? PLEASE LET ME KNOW THIS.
Most counselors are not, so I want to make sure you are getting sound advise from this one. I went to marriage counseling & in a private session with just me & the counselor I listed all the traits of my husband which are all the traits of a sociopath and the counselor never told me I was married to a sociopath or asked if I was being abused. So let me know, if she/he is not then you need to rethink your exit plan.
The only tie you have to this guy is the car (& your heart). the car is the biggest rope holding you to this guy. So get your new car ordered & delivered or other arrangements & now is the time to figure out how to get his car to him with out giving away that you are ending this abusive relationship. This needs to be well thought out because just after you might want to implement the No contact rule. You will need to be ten steps ahead of the sociopaths…this is why planning everything now is imperative.
1. Should I tell the neighbours that we are no longer together (without giving specifics) so that he cannot claim he forgot the keys and wait for me to get home/cause a scene)?
2. He has not tried physically hurt me (or anyone in my presence). But he did say to “I have no trouble killing a man. Easy. I have no empathy”. And he repeatedly said to me “love you to death”. Should I be paranoid and concerned? Or be cautious but do not get paranoid?”
The only person I have ever had say things to me, that are eerily similar this guy, is my ex h a sociopath, and at the time they terrified me & still do. YES, you need to be concerned!! This is not “paranoid” thinking this guy is telling you incredibly scary things…believe his words
write down these statements this guy has made to you like these & bring it to your counseling session to discuss how to proceed. The hair on the back of your neck should be standing straight up!! Will he do these things? you dont know, but the fact he stated them to you just shows you his crazy sick thinking. Just another reason you need to escape this abusive relationship. These ARE abusive words!!! These are terrifying words!!
Make sure your son knows that he is NEVER to leave with this man alone EVER. You need to work this in to a conversation. Ask your counselor for advise.
With regards to your neighbors, just tell them simply that you & he broke up & you do not want him hanging around the building if he does ask them to tell you. He may or may not come to your home after you break up but you need to have people watching your back if he does. Don’t go into detail of your relationship with your neighbors, just keep the words simple & short & to the point. If they ask for further detail just tell them its “a private matter”. Don’t feel obligated to tell them any more. It’s not being rude to keep this conversation short & to the point. Think out ahead what you will say and then stick to the plan. So people thrive on gossip so beware of some of your neighbors may dig for details but hold your ground firmly & just tell them it’s a private matter.
Glad you are in a secure building.
Once you do start the No Contact rule, you should think about changing your phone number, block him on social media, don’t follow his social media, don’t accept texts or read his emails.
Once the No Contact rule is implemented expect him to start the Lovebombing stage all over again…with words, none stop phone calls none stop, emails, letters, gifts, flowers etc Most sociopaths do this…when they dont get a rise or a response then the switch to belittling & anger. DO NOT BELIEVE ONE THING he rants about you. It’s all a manipulation game to break your spirit & self esteem to get you back into their grips.
Do a search here at Lovefraud on “Love bombing” and also “Breaking off with a sociopath”.
Remember if he is married or has a long term girlfriend (which I suspect) he will want to make sure you do not tell them anything…he wants her at home & wants her to stay in the relationship also…so you never know how a sociopath is going to react. Best to have a safety & exit plan in place.
It’s not easy to break off with a sociopath emotionally. KNOW THIS and be kind to yourself as you go thru the healing process. Yes, you are going to want to talk to him once you start the No contact rule, but DONT!! Instead write down on a piece of paper or come here and vent all the things you would say to him. And also come here & watch Donna’s videos up at the top over & over & read, this will help open your mind up from his mind control.
Every time you break the no contact rule he will break you down emotionally to control you from leaving him again & you will emotionally have to start all over again.
If you still keep in touch via phone, email or text he still controls your mind. REMEMBER HE IS YOUR CULT LEADER BRAIN WASHING YOU…so the only way to have peace & calm is to cut the ties with him once you & your counselor set the time frame for this.
Also our bodies are under a great deal of stress when with a sociopath…high levels of cortisol (stress hormone) are being released into our body and this will give you anxiety & make you feel depressed. It will most likely cause a racing mind, and could cause panic attacks, brain fog etc which you might be suffering from now.
Look into an Endocrinologist doctor to test your cortisol levels, vitamin & mineral deficiency level, and hormones. S
See sites like Dr lam. com & Adrenal fatigue. org symptoms list. Most vicim of a sociopath suffer from PTSD. Most likely you too. And when we break off any relationship our bodies release high levels of cortisol but with a sociopath we have had high levels of cortisol & adrenaline released since day one then when we break off the relationship high levels surge and it’s a lot to handle. SO research this too.
I would highly recommend you buy Donna Anderson’s book Lovefraud 10 signs you are dating a sociopath. When you feel weak & want to call him, you can read the book…once you are healed & want to date again then you have a book to guide you thru the signs of a sociopath to prevent this nightmare in your future.
You are doing a wonderful job asking questions & understanding what is gong on & educing yourself. You are extremely smart & this is one of the attributes a sociopath looks for.
So, keep moving forward into the sunshine, your future is bright!!
Hugs to you. ?
- This reply was modified 1 year, 7 months ago by Jan7.
February 13, 2018 at 6:59 pm #44113
This article is from the net about why the No contact rule once imposed is critical to your well being & healing. Talk with your counselor about what specific steps you should take out.
“Why Initiate a”No Contact” Rule When Leaving a Narcissistic Relationship
breakingfreeofchainsNo contact is initiated as a way of breaking the psychic emotional bonds between you and a narcissistic partner, friend or family member. If you have been involved with a narcissistic person for any length of time you will undoubtedly have a strong attachment to that person. This attachment needs to be weakened which will happen much more quickly once you engage the rules of “no contact.”
I am referring to the rules of “no contact” as RULES but these are only enforced by you. These are your rules! If you break these rules you are the one who pays the consequences. And…there are most definitely consequences that come in the form of emotional pain and re-attachment.
No contact gives you the space and time to get your energy back into your life. It can be challenging at first as you may have to resist the urge to answer the phone, return an Email or make that call. You must get into the habit of policing yourself for your own good.
Imagine that you have two different aspects of yourself; a parent self and a child self. The parent self will have to police the child self to be sure she doesn’t do anything that will hurt her. You know intellectually that breaking the rules of “no contact” will hurt that child, so you stop her from doing so, even though she is throwing a tantrum.
Making a decision to cut off contact with a narcissistic personality when leaving the relationship is an important part of your recovery process. The decision to initiate “NO Contact” is a decision for your health and sanity.
When you remain in contact you continue to engage in the relationship on some level and are still affected by its craziness and dysfunction. You will normally continue to be affected by the hot and cold behavior of the narcissist, be pulled in and pushed away, confused and hurt. You will continue to be drained energetically which results in depression and lethargy.
The best remedy for getting yourself back is to stop giving your energy to the relationship in any way. You can only dry off when you take your feet out of the water. Don’t allow the narcissist access to you and your energy!
Of course there are cases where ‘no contact” is not possible due to the involvement of children or when the narcissistic personality is a direct family member. However even in these cases contact can be greatly limited and sometimes all contact can be through a third party mediator. See my article “When No Contact Can’t Work” for more info.
Here are the rules of No Contact:
1) Once you have made the decision to end the relationship get your business taken care of immediately, if possible. If you are married and going through a divorce you will need to initiate the divorce right away or make the decision to put it on hold for six months to a year while you take care of yourself and your family. During that time you can initiate “no contact” and then initiate the divorce paperwork, through an attorney when you are stronger. Let the narcissist in your life know that you are ending the relationship and won’t be in communication with him for a while. Ask him to please refrain from calling, text messaging, emailing, instant chat or stopping by your home or workplace.
2) Taking care of business involves getting your possessions, giving him his possessions. Getting separate living quarters, separating bills and anything that would give you a reason to contact him or for him to contact you. If necessary use a third party mediator.
3) Clean out your home and get rid of any memorabilia having to do with your ex-narcissistic partner. If you are having issues throwing something away or burning it, put it in a big box, tape it up and store it somewhere where you won’t see it. If you are comfortable burning sage or incense this can help clear the energy of your home. Also burning candles is a good way to shift the energy.
4) Make no arrangements for personal meetings. If he stops by, don’t answer the door. If you see him in public, put your sunglasses on, avoid eye contact and move past him as quickly as possible.
5) Make or accept no phone calls. If he calls, don’t answer the phone. If he calls from an unidentified number and you hear his voice on the other end, hang up without saying a word. He’ll get the message. If he leaves a voice mail message try and erase it without listening if you can. If he is persistent, consider having your phone number changed. This is your sanity we are talking about. It is priceless.
6) Make or accept no text messages, emails, or instant chat. It is best to block his emails and even consider having your own email address changed so he won’t have your information. This prevents him emailing you from an unknown address.
7) If you are on any mutual community Websites, you will want to stop visiting those sites. Do not access his Web pages, profiles, social media, or anything that will give you current info on him. What he is doing is none of your business. What you are doing is none of his.
8) If you have friends in common, you will want to let them know that you are avoiding any and all contact with him at this time so you can focus on your healing and you request that they NOT share any information about him with you nor any information about you with him. If you find mutual friends do not support your request you will want to avoid contact with them for a time. Do not allow anyone to tell you that what you are doing is crazy, silly, stupid, childish or invalidate your decision in any way. This is a time to surround yourself with people who support you and let go of people who don’t.
9) If you work with him, in the same office building, same company, etc.. Same rules apply. If you are forced to do business with him, keep all communication strictly business and don’t allow him to engage you in any other way. Remember: He no longer has access to you or your energy.
10) If you have children with him you are best to engage a mediator for all contact. Narcissistic people will often use the children as a way to get to you. You may consider asking a family member or good friend to act as the mediator for young children. If your kids are old enough to handle their own business, let them work out the details of any visits directly with the other parent and communicate with you to be sure you approve. Be careful not to use your children to punish the narcissistic parent. The kids will be the ones being affected. In some cases when the narcissistic parent realizes he has no control over you and using the kids doesn’t work, he may bow out altogether and you may rarely hear from him. So it is important that you don’t allow him access to you, even if you have kids. Keep it strictly business.
How Long Must No Contact Last?
No contact should remain in affect until you feel the bond has been completely severed. This can take several years so be prepared to continue “no contact” for a long time. Most will find once that bond is severed there is no need or desire to see that person, but the rules can soften a bit at this point so if you run into him on the street you may say “hello” and be kind, but not engage in any “real” conversation. If you have kids together you may be able to communicate directly at some point in the future, although there is absolutely no guarantee this will work well.
Once you have moved on, down the road, you will want to be careful not to make the mistake of believing maybe he/she has changed. The likelihood of any real change is very small. Always assume he or she is the same person as always. Even if change was possible, your trust in the narcissist has already been severely damaged and you would never likely be fully trusting again. This is no way to have a relationship. You deserve to have someone you can trust completely in your life.”
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