Broke "no contact": how to get back on track?

This topic contains 35 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  Jan7 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #44848


    After lasting almost a month of no contact, I ended up sending “happy Easter” text to my sociopathic ex (non emotive one liner “X, have a safe and happy Easter”.
    As soon as I sent it, I knew it was a mistake.
    He did not respond which is a relief.
    But I feel I am back to square one.
    I am beating myself up for being weak and sending a text.
    I am trying to analyse why today and what triggered it, which could be:
    1) My son was going to his dad for the first half of school holidays, so I was feeling sad at not seeing him for the next 9 days;
    2) Everyone at school was talking about family things they would be doing over the weekend.
    3) I was sending Easter messages to friends and family and had flashbacks to some of the good times we had (e.g. sociopath set up an Easter Egg hunt for my son 2 years ago). This made me feel bad if I did not wish him a Happy Easter. The irony is: he is a self confessed atheist so does not care for Easter of Christmas; he is not my family or a friend. And with an exception of 1 year, he was not with me for Easter – as I have later discovered, he had another family in another state so was spending holidays with them (or potentially a 3rd family elsewhere).

    What is the best way to get back on track now?

  • #44850

    Donna Andersen

    thirdtimelucky – you just start again. It is common for people to have a relapse. So don’t beat yourself up too much.

    Now you know what it feels like. Now You know that breaking no contact is a mistake. Use this information to help yourself “stay on the wagon.”

    It was probably something you did on impulse. So if you feel the impulse again – stall. Make yourself wait an hour. And then make yourself wait another hour. Ask yourself what good could come of reaching out. Probably nothing.

    If you can get past the impulse – you’ll be ok.

  • #44864


    Start agaun. Good you are back.

  • #44868



    The way “to get back on track now?” = Jump right back on your horse & ride fast away from him!! 🐎🐎🐎💜

    You are not the first to break the no contact rule, like Donna states. You get it now. You are feeling the pain that he causes you whether you talk with him on the phone, are with him or like now, just by sending him a message.

    Feel these feelings!! Write them down on a piece of paper or in a journal right now, so that if you feel the urge to contact him again, you can read what you wrote, right now, about why you should NEVER EVER contact him again.

    Here are some of your feelings you posted above:

    As soon as I sent it, I knew it was a mistake.
    He did not respond which is a relief.
    But I feel I am back to square one.
    I am beating myself up for being weak and sending a text.
    I am trying to analyse why today and what triggered it

    Just after, secretly leaving my husband, (he was on a business trip) I felt like I could not talk to him because I felt he was brain washing me by his words. Even though I knew nothing about brain washing, My gut was telling me (more like screaming) to keep him away from me in all forms: in person, emails & phone calls, even though at that time I was not educated on, exactly, who he really was or had never heard of the term “no contact rule”. When he did contact me after I had divorce papers delivered to him, again my gut kicked in, telling me not to read his ranting emails which would come thru on my phone at all hours of the night, they all included blame shifting, pity play, all forms of manipulation.

    Listen to your gut instinct right now, all of these feelings you just wrote down are telling you to keep him out of your life = LISTEN TO THESE VERY STRONG GUT REACTION TO HIM!!

    Remember most victims have PTSD with/or leaving a sociopath. So, you being triggered, is not a surprise. It is expected. Sadly! I get triggered with divorce letters from his attorney or mine. It’s awful. Just like this day was for you today. Triggers are very common with all victims. When I first left my ex they were ever second of the day. With time these triggers subside.

    Donna gives good advise about waiting an hour. I think it’s important to get the thought out of your head…for me, I would come to these support sites when I was triggered & would just type to get the emotions out of my mind. Sometimes I would go back & delete the post, other times I left them so that others could help me stand up again. YOU SHOULD PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK for coming to love fraud & posting this post!! This is part of the healing process.

    If you dont want to post publicly, just get a journal & write in the journal instead of calling him or sending him an email. GET YOUR THOUGHTS OUT OF YOUR MIND.

    US President Abraham Lincoln would write letters to people that upset him but never sent them, instead he would just put them in an envelope & put them in his desk drawer. This is what I aways thought of when I receive a ranting email from my ex…just one day I thought of this & never responded to him again. Slammed the door on him. You will get to this point too.

    Steven Hassan, (cult & domestic abuse expert) author of Freedom of mind, stated in an video interview that you should train your brain to see them as evil…picture your ex’s picture next to say Charles Mason or Hitlers photo…then ever time you see his face in your mind, you see him as evil. It really does work. I cant look at a picture now of my ex h without see his true image = evil.

    You have done so many wonderful steps to get out of this relationship in such a short time frame. With everything you have been doing to get a new car, pack & move, raise your son…you just let your guard down…it’s ok. You put your guard shield 👚back on…and now you can march forward into your new life that you are building with out him.


    • This reply was modified 6 months, 3 weeks ago by  Jan7.
  • #44869


    PS. after you write down your feelings then write down why you kicked him out of your life for good:


    he lied about being married

    he had a secret family

    he manipulated me by _________________

    He was emotionally abusive to me when he ___________________

    he was only with me for 1 Easter out of 4. the rest of the time he was with his wife (which I did not know he was married). etc etc.

  • #44871


    Google: Feel your feelings. This is one of the articles I found that might help you to tap into all of your feelings to process everything that is going on in your life right now.

    “How to Feel Your Feelings and What That Will Do for Your Life (Everything!)

    By Amber Adrian
    Colors of Mood

    “You care so much you feel as though you will bleed to death with the pain of it.” ~JK Rowling

    Sometimes the last thing we want to do is feel our feelings. Because feeling can hurt.

    Feeling can make you cry in the laundromat.

    Feeling can make your face unattractively red in the frozen food aisle.

    Feeling can make you think this whole being human racket is not the best way to spend your time.

    If you’ve been stuffing your feelings back into your rib cage whenever they try to break for the light, this is especially true. I know, because this is exactly what I did with my feelings for thirty-three long years.

    Oh, those crafty feelings would make the occasional jail break, and then I’d vibrate with a nameless rage that ended in cell phone destruction when technology met brick wall. Or I’d start screaming and yanking at my clothes—yes, actual rending of garments—because the rush of pain was too intense to contain within my frame.

    My mom is fond of saying that, for the first few years of my life, she thought she was raising a monster. As an empath in a house where emotion was treated like a ticking bomb, I was feeling emotions for the entire family, and all those feelings were processing through my eyeballs and via my vocal chords.

    So I learned to stifle my sensitivity and emotion in a well-meaning but mistaken effort to protect those around me. Many of us do.

    We learn that emotions aren’t safe.

    We learn that crying is not appreciated.

    We learn that life runs more smoothly when we pack our emotions into our spleen and forget about them.

    It wasn’t until my father landed in the hospital thirty years later that my personal emotional apocalypse began.

    Trapped in a hospital bed, unable to move, all the feeling and empathy my father had successfully stifled for seventy years—with work, wine, and science fiction novels—rose up to claim him. He couldn’t bear to be in his body any more, so he stopped eating until he didn’t have to be.

    Pressing play on his favorite John Coltrane track or reading his favorite passages, not sure what he could hear through the morphine haze, the solidity of my emotions began to crack.

    As we waited for my father to die, I roamed the hospital halls and spilled coffee on the pristine floors, feeling like I would jump out of my skin. Since writing was the only means I had of processing emotion at the time, I began to record my experiences on Twitter. Never before had I experienced such a rush of love and support.

    The cracks began to widen.

    After his death, my tenuous yet carefully clutched emotional control completely unraveled.

    As I began to lean into the cleansing rush of feeling, rather than running determinedly the opposite direction, life began sending me the experiences I needed to learn how to surf the wave of the emotional onslaught.

    I learned how to greet my feelings as friends rather than as a nameless beast out to destroy my life—or at least my morning.

    I learned where emotions would hide in my body, lurking between my ribs or huddled in my belly.

    I learned how to allow the literal physical feeling of my emotions to burn itself out, by simply feeling the sensation instead of judging it or make it mean something.

    I learned how crucial it was to feel my way through my emotions so that I could connect with my inner wisdom.

    Devoting myself to processing my feelings, rather than letting them build up until they drained me, began to shift and transform my life.

    Depression became a distant memory. I stopped feeling the need to drink, heavily or at all. Quitting sugar became easy, unless I was in the first throes of grief.

    (Any necessary grieving process buys me a few months of sugar, low energy and crankiness be damned. When I’m grieving, I won’t have energy or optimism anyway, so may as well eat red velvet cupcakes.)

    When I try to pin down exactly how I learned to shift and flow with my feelings, rather than strapping them into concrete shoes and tossing them into my stomach, this is what shows up:

    Every feeling has a message.

    Maybe that message is simply to allow yourself to feel the emotion until it dissipates. Maybe the feeling is guiding you toward some action.

    Once, when a boyfriend and I were talking about moving in together, fear and anxiety began flying through my body like cocaine-addled pinballs for no apparent reason. In other words, I started flipping out, which didn’t make any sense, given that this was something I’d been wanting.

    When I began to explore the onslaught, I realized that there were deeper issues we needed to delve into before taking that step.

    If something persists—anger, fear, anxiety—simply ask it what it wants to tell you. Sit quietly and allow the answer to appear. When you feel peaceful, you have your answer, whether or not you like what that answer says.

    Processing your feelings gives you access to your own inner wisdom and innate creativity.

    If I sit down to write and nothing comes, I hunt down any feelings that I’ve been avoiding. Sometimes I’ll need to abandon work to roam the beach and cry. Sometimes I’ll give the feeling five minutes of attention and get back to work.

    You already have all the answers you will ever need inside of you—and your emotions are a primary vehicle for those answers. Learning the language of your feelings will give you your own personal Sherpa through life.

    All this feeling you’re carrying around may not be yours.

    Sensitive, empathic people are the proud recipients of a double whammy. You’re not just carrying around your emotions, you’re also carrying the emotions of people you walked past in the grocery store, the homeless woman you spoke with on the corner two years ago, the friend who vented last week.

    Your own emotions may be crowded by the emotions of others that you absorbed unconsciously, sometimes by simply walking past them in the street.

    Learn how to clear the emotions of others from your field. One way to do this is to imagine roots extending from your feet into the center of the earth. Send all the emotion and energy that doesn’t belong to you down those roots and into the earth. Feel it draining out of your field and into a place where it can be transformed. Do it daily.

    Feeling your emotions brightens your life, both internally and externally.

    You already have every answer you will ever need inside of you; you just need to learn how to access that information. Answers about your relationships, your life direction, how to take care of your health, how to move toward what you want. Translating what your feelings are trying to tell you provides a direct conduit to your own higher wisdom.

    It may take time and sustained attention to clear out what you were in the habit of stuffing down, but the more you lean into whatever is asking to be seen, the more your life will open and expand.

    Brain gremlins won’t have as much sticky emotion to latch onto and they’ll become easier to gently set aside. What once felt heavy and overwhelming will feel light.

    And everything will change.”

  • #44902


    Hi Thirdtimelucky, I’m in a smiliar situation. I broke NC because he approached me on the street and shouted things that I later responded to. Up until this point I was feeling energetic, free, alomost happy because every waking moment had not been filled with anxiety about his welfare and what he was up to. I felt mad at myself too, but I also feel stronger because I know what that contact has done to me. So, I’m reaching out to the forum, going for a run, going out to eat and investing time in my kids who have sacrificed enough over the last few years. Stay strong, please dont beat yourself up, but most of all do something nice for yourself because you deserve it. I realise the time difference is an issue on here, but I haven’t found anything similar in the UK. Happy Easter if you celebrate it.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  hope4us.
    • #44919


      Thank you for your message and Happy Easter to you too (I am in Australia as we also do not have any similar forums, so time difference is not an issue).
      I went to an Easter service yesterday (I am not a regular goer). Perhaps it was the music or the atmosphere of this particular church (if you read my prior posts, I moved into a new area so that SP does not know my address), but I had this realisation that I could recover after this betrayal and become stronger (if Jesus could rise from the dead, after being betrayed, I could survive a SP). Next I started crying, but they were “good”, cleansing tears. One of the ladies in the congregation sat down next to me and we just hugged (I did not know anyone at this church, just went to the closest Christian one in my new neighbourhood). She asked if I was ok, I said, yes, I was just mourning someone who died (and it is true – the image I had of SP, hopes for the life together they are dead. She asked when – I told her about 18 months ago (this is when I first discovered initial lies). So I had my cry, then walked home and enjoyed the rest of my Easter Sunday. I took myself out to dinner at an inexpensive place, a long bath and read a good book.
      I woke up feeling completely different today, content, started thinking about the future (I am finishing a post grad and need to look into flexible work options, I need to be here for my son (thankfully he is not from SP!). Had a great day, all in all (Even if I was missing my son not being with me during this Easter, his turn to be with dad).
      I still get an occasional craving to tell SP I had discovered the truth about him and his lies, but these cravings are less and less now, more like fleeting thoughts.
      Plus I know how it feels when you break “NC”. Enough to deter me from doing it again.

  • #44916


    Take it one day at a time.

    • #44925


      Hey Third Time Lucky thanks for your reply, I’m delighted you treated yourself so well at Easter, and that you made a connection with someone at church. I’ve really messed up this time. This time he emailed me and has contacted my brother. He broke a confidence and this has led to my brother turning on me too. He’s also tried to contact a work colleague, who he insists I was having an affair with, she’s gay and I’m not, so that makes it even more ludicous. Now I’ve agreed to meet him like a fool, I know there’s another focus in his life. What am I doing? I think I expect an end to it, there’s now way back. I think I just want to tell him what I know, it might feel good.

      • #44927


        We all mess up and it takes a while to make the final break (took me about 10 months). There is a good book which can be purchased on Kindle called the 5 Step Exit. It helps you to plan your exit, gives tips on how to manage damage control and also emphasises that the bond with the abuser takes a while to break.
        From your post it appears that he is engaging your brother and others as his “flying monkeys”
        (Please google this term, he is building his support team, he tells them lies which they then spread. Sociopaths are very clever – they mix lies about you with the truth). If you do meet with him, please do so in a public place. Perhaps download an app that allows you to record the conversation, be prepared to be belittled, threatened, put down or alternatively, love bombed with promises to fix things. Be prepared for anything but try and say as little as possible if at all if he tries to accuse you of things and place the blame on you.
        Re telling him what you know, please be careful. If he knows what you know, he may become dangerous and engage in smear campaigns (again please google this term, there are articles on it on this website). Perhaps this is why he wants to meet – to find out what it is you know exactly.
        In my case, I did not confront my ex with evidence (of false identities, multiple places of birth and of course, that he was married to another person during the entire 4 year relationship and as he proposed and was planning to move in with me). I spoke to my counsellor and she said it would be too dangerous to try and confront him as he obviously was protecting his secret family for 4 years we’ve been together.
        Instead I wrote down everything I wanted to tell him in an email which I sent to myself. I am still using this technique when I have things to tell to him.
        Everyone’s situation is different but I would urge you to cancel the meeting (Can be as simple as “I had further thoughts and do not believe it is appropriate for us to meet for now”. Or even simple “Something has come up, I’ll be in touch about an alternative time” (which of course you have no intention of doing). Can be sent by text.
        Lastly, the cravings for our abusive exes take a while to go away. Even after I knew about all the lies and 1 month post discard now there are times I long for him with this crazy intensity. That’s when I write emails/notes to myself of all the things I want to tell to him.
        It takes time to heal, take care and please be safe
        With love

      • #44946


        PS I am watching the Gavin de Becker, and have started the book. The snake story is so poignant, it reminds me of the quote, ” when someone tells you what they’re like, believe them the first time.” He told me that he was insane and a bad person trying to be a nice person.

  • #44928

    Donna Andersen

    Thirdtimelucky – great advice that you offered to Hope4us! Thank you for your contribution.

    • #44945


      Thirdtimelucky, Jan7, I wish I’d read your posts sooner, I met him and he came clean about some of the lies, apologised and admitted he’s a bad person. He also told me that he doesnt like my kids and that was why he wouldn’t move in or book a holiday, shame he didnt make an effort with them. He claims his Mum has cancer, and of course he’s been checked for STI’s because of me, ha ha. Great, now I also have worry of that. He wants to book couples counselling, I know it’s all wrong and I need to go cold turkey again. Thank you for your support I really appreciate it, I have isolated myself as a result of this relationship and have no one to turn to. I’m trying to make new friends, I am meeting my daughter’s friend’s mum today, she knows the situation but doesn’t fully understand. The hardest thing is to let go without having my say, but if that’s what it takes then I’ll write the letter and not send it. I’m supposed to meet him tomorrow, I’ll cancel following your advice. Thanks again for your support, thank God someone understands.

  • #44929

    Donna Andersen

    Hope4us – I recommend canceling the meeting. Nothing good can come of it. Just send a text saying, “Meeting is off.” Do not explain why – when you give a sociopath a reason, they view it as a negotiating ploy.

    Then block him. No contact is the key. It’s best that you don’t even see him attempting to contact you.

  • #44933


    Hope4us, Follow Donna’s advise!! Call of this meeting asap!

    He is sucking you back into his hellish world. Dont play his game! BLOCK HIM & follow the no contact rule.

    Did you know that sociopaths literally can use trance & hypnosis to control someone?

    So this is what you can expect him to do at this so called “meeting”. His agenda at this “meeting” is to suck you back into his hellish world. That is it, he will tell you he is “sorry” and what every else you want to hear…but it will ALL BE LIES OUT OF HIS MOUTH. You know he is a pathological liar (google this term) like all sociopaths!

    5 years into my marriage I was done…he begged me to go to counseling with him, sobbing & crying the full bs pony show…I went to counseling only for him to manipulate the counselor & then break my spirit down even further, his control & abuse got a million times worse after this & I stayed another 7 years, even though I sat in the counselors office telling the counselor & my h (now ex) I wanted a divorce. That was my gut instinct kicking in by wanting a divorce. But I was talked out of it by him & the counselor. I had to crawl out of hell 7 years later. I was broken by then. Dont let this happen to you!

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!! It is screaming to you to RUN FAST AWAY FROM THIS GUY…how do I know this? you came to Lovefraud for answers.

    Listen to your gut!!

    Google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to watch their video on listening to your gut. Your local library may have Gavin Debecker’s book The gift of fear.

    Also buy Donna’s book Lovefraud 10 signs you are dating a sociopath so that you can always refer to this book when you have doubts about ending this relationship for good.

    You already know what he is going to say to you at this “meeting = LIES, AFTER LIES, AFTER LIES.

    Go back to the NO CONTACT RULE!! (read this rule again)

    Wishing you the best!! Take care.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jan7.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jan7.
  • #44936


    PS Hope4us, look up the terms here at Lovefraud & net:

    Sociopath triangulation

    Sociopath smear campaign

    sociopath scape goating

    Show these to your brother & friends!! So that they can see first hand the games your ex is doing to isolate you so that he can either control you back into a relationship or if you don’t go back to him then he will destroy every aspect of your life starting with you friends & family relationships.

  • #44947


    I’d like to start by suggesting that you look at your own question here and notice what I notice: you are aware of the issue.

    You had a small lapse, but you are aware of it.

    That is pretty fantastic when you think about it.

    There appear to be no real troubles for you from it (WHEW!) so I suggest you do what others have said here: just get on with things. Use this to remind yourself, and cultivate new habits.

    Your self-awareness may prickle at you, but combined with your self-honesty, it is a powerful tool for you to reset your future.

    Take care!

  • #44948


    [the outcome – and reinforcement why it is so important to stick to the NC rule]
    Today (almost a week since my “happy Easter” text) I got a response which reminded me why NC rule is so important:
    “Do not text me; you and I are not friends and never will be. I think you are low life, nothing more. Get on with your own miserable life. Stop pretending you care about my wellbeing. I am all over your games. I have never felt so used in my life (profanity omitted). On an off chance I ran into you, I shall totally ignore you”.
    This is from a man who has led a double life in two different cities and tried to move in with me to (no doubt in my mind) have a claim to my assets.
    However I am surprised by the degree of venom and that it took so long for him to respond in this manner, I.e. why respond to me at all.

    It does not really matter – the key is to continue no contact and not respond to him.

    • #44949


      Thirdtimelucky, this sociopath is in panic mode that you will tell his wife about your 4 year affair with him (even though you had zero idea he was married). He is extremely cunning with this email.

      My ex h did these same games with one of the woman that I caught him cheating with (while he said “she was after him”). He painted a masterful smear campaign against her in my head. No doubt he is doing the same to his wife incase you do come forward and he is no doubt lovebombing her right now. This is what my ex did.

      DO NOT TAKE HIS WORDS ABOUT YOU SERIOUSLY. This guy just dropped his mast to show you who he really is = mean, cunning, manipulative.

      Thank your lucky stars that you are out of his life! And thank your lucky stars that you peace together who he is = sociopath!

      Look up the term:

      Sociopath projection
      (this is what he is doing by flipping everything around on you)

      Sociopath blame shifting

      IGNORE THIS EMAIL!! Do not take anything he said in this email to heart. Move on with your new life without him & his ranting bs knowing that you know he is a sociopath.

      Hugs to you💜

      • #44961


        Jan7, thank you for your support and hugs. Yes I am ignoring him and blocked his number (again). Perhaps his wife found something out (E.g. when the company car that I returned turned up, it had registration in my state. He’d also have to explain my gifts (unless he sold them).

        On a side note, the vile words he used on me are the same that I’ve heard in reference to his wife no 2 and mother of his daughter (to who he was not married).

        He also described his daughter as such (she tracked him down after 23 years, the fathering lasted 18 months before he told her to get lost – “she is a user; low life”. What I find strange in that situation – he introduced his daughter to me, not to his wife. He also told daughter he just had a room in a friend’s house, obviously was keen to keep his real life under the wraps.

        I also see a pattern of his behaviour now: cheats on wife no 1 with the mother of his daughter. Has a daughter whilst still married on wife no 1. When his daughter is 8 months old, divorces wife no 1, marries wife no 2 (who he started going out with when his daughter was 6 months). Gets together with the current wife during divorce from wife 2 (he mentioned his current wife was a colleague. Probably had an affair). If I did not find out about his other life, I’d be the next victim in this chain of events.

        My prayers go out to his current wife, a poor exploited woman.

        • #44972


          Hi Thirdtimelucky, you’re so welcome. good job blocking him again. I think sometimes it takes that one last time to see their mask slip & show you their very dark side before you can walk away for good. This Easter text might be your last time before you truly slam the door on him forever.

          You State:

          “Perhaps his wife found something out (E.g. when the company car that I returned turned up, it had registration in my state. He’d also have to explain my gifts (unless he sold them).”

          This is so possible. Remember his wife is trying to dissect his lies & mind games just like you had to do. She wants out no doubt but has not found out that he is a sociopath like you did. With time & the heavens she too will learn the truth. Maybe even give you a call to ask you questions to open up her mind to the truth. Who knows.

          You state:

          “On a side note, the vile words he used on me are the same that I’ve heard in reference to his wife no 2 and mother of his daughter (to who he was not married).”

          It’s so crazy that all these sociopaths use the same manipulative word play book. I have read these same things on several support sites. Unbelievable, crazy, scary!!

          I’m with you, when I read most post, I’m like YEP, my ex did the SAME things!! Same WORDS!! So so so crazy. I wonder if there is a site that they learn some of these things to mess with their mates.

          You state:

          “He also described his daughter as such (she tracked him down after 23 years, the fathering lasted 18 months before he told her to get lost – “she is a user; low life”. What I find strange in that situation – he introduced his daughter to me, not to his wife. He also told daughter he just had a room in a friend’s house, obviously was keen to keep his real life under the wraps.

          I also see a pattern of his behaviour now: cheats on wife no 1 with the mother of his daughter. Has a daughter whilst still married on wife no 1. When his daughter is 8 months old, divorces wife no 1, marries wife no 2 (who he started going out with when his daughter was 6 months). Gets together with the current wife during divorce from wife 2 (he mentioned his current wife was a colleague. Probably had an affair). If I did not find out about his other life, I’d be the next victim in this chain of events.”

          YES…they will use the same pattern of words & behavior on every target victim. Why? because they are lazy & it worked once so they use it again. If you wondering what your ex is doing now…well just look at the beginning of your relationship and that is what his new target vicim is being told.

          You state:

          “My prayers go out to his current wife, a poor exploited woman.”

          ME TOO!! Prays to her that she will learn the truth = he is a sociopath.

          • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jan7.
    • #44955


      Thirdtimelucky, I feel inspired reading your post about the vile words he sent to you, and your ability to detatch yourself from them. I imagine it’s a form of hoovering, yet reinforcing what you already knonw that HE’S the person at fault. Incidently have you not blocked his number?
      Thanks agaon for your support over the past days

      • #44962


        Yes, I blocked his number now (I unblocked him when I sent him an Easter text). As I said in my response to Jan7, he used the same vile words before, in reference to his ex wives and his daughter.

        Yes, I was able to feel detached when I go the texts. It gets easier with time, it took 18 months between the first “this is not right” to the final break. I told him I did not want to get married early January; then I did “grey rock” to encourage him to end it (to be safe, so he is less likely to go into a rage) for 6 weeks. So it is a very long process (even in my situation where we have no kids and did not live together).

        Please be kind to yourself and be ready for setbacks along the way. It is normal to feel scared. Please delete his voice messages (unless they are abusive, then save them for any possible litigation later). It is normal to feel some fleeting guilt when they play a victim, we are normal empathetic people. They are not. The kids need to be kept safe from violence and from learning sociopathic behaviours (my son was taught to curse, make suggestive comments about women and was offered alcohol by sociopath. And my boy is only 6 and a half! And if I said that behaviour was not appropriate, my son was taught to disrespect me and call me nicknames). That what gave me extra strength – I did not need this influence around my boy. Bad enough he has a disordered bio dad and a possibility inheriting that disorder.

        One day at a time, it gets easier. If some people in your life are not supportive, reduce contact with them or do not confide (e.g. I give very minimal information to my parents, they are not helpful. but I have a good therepist and supportive friend network). Exercise is essential – even some stretches and sit ups for 5 min once kids are in bed, whilst kettle is boiling!

        And of course this forum is invaluable (and good to see that it is now an international community. Also scary to realise that sociopathy is a global illness).

  • #44950



    He states:

    ” I met him and he came clean about some of the lies, apologised and admitted he’s a bad person.”


    When someone tells you who they are = BELIEVE THEM!!!

    My ex told me these same things = bad person. I wanted to believe that he could change that his childhood had something to do with his behavior. These people NEVER CHANGE but they change their target victims by breaking them emotionally down. DONT LET HIM BREAK YOU down any further = RUN RUN RUN From him.

    He states:

    “He also told me that he doesnt like my kids”

    Of course he does not like your children, he cant control you 24/7 with your kids having needs. Sociopaths want all the attention, with kids around he cant have you catering to his every need or manipulation tactic.

    Sociopaths will often manipulate their target victim to give up their children to there father so that they can ISOLATE the target victims = more control over the target vicim. One of the first things a sociopath does is isolate their target away from family & friends to have full mind control over them.


    You state:

    “shame he didnt make an effort with them.:

    The fact he did not make an “effort with them” is a BLESSING!! They have been saved from the hell of a sociopath by him not messing with their minds!! THANK GOODNESS!!

    You state:

    “that was why he wouldn’t move in or book a holiday, shame he didnt make an effort with them.”

    Sociopath always manipulate their target vicim with these kinds of blame shifting. What he is doing is a very covert mind game for you to start resenting your own children. This is the kind of sick & twisted mind games they play!!

    He states:

    “He claims his Mum has cancer”

    THIS IS PITY PLAY MANIPULATION (look this up at love fraud) whether she does or dose not, the fact that he was telling you this yesterday but not before, again is just more mind game manipulation to control you so that you take him back.

    He states:

    “of course he’s been checked for STI’s because of me, ha ha. Great, now I also have worry of that.”

    What he really is saying = Ive been screwing around with everyone so you are just going to accept that.

    This is another reason why you should not let this sociopath back into your life…who knows who he has been with…who knows what disease he picked up…a disease that could kill you or prevent you from having a new loving relationship with a good person.

    He states:

    “He wants to book couples counseling,”

    Of course he does, he hates your children, has been screwing around on you, treated you horribly & know he wants “couples therapy” because NONE of his one night stands or a few weeks long flings do not want a relationship with him because they see a MARCHING BAND OF RED FLAGS WITH HIM. Pleases see them too!!

    Please know that sociopaths are masterful manipulators with counselors. And in counseling they will learn quickly from the counselors methods to literally manipulate you with these learn counselor technique.

    What I personally learned from couples counseling with my ex, a sociopath, is it is a waste of money. You will leave counseling with your head more screwed up by the lies & manipulation the sociopath will inflict on you in counseling. It’s an absolute mind screwing time in counseling with the counseling helping him if the counselor are clueless about sociopath & their abuse.

    Best to only do individual counseling with a counselor who is extremely knowledgeable with sociopathic abuse.

    You state:

    I know it’s all wrong and I need to go cold turkey again.

    YES!! Follow the No contact rule!!

    You state:

    “I have isolated myself as a result of this relationship and have no one to turn to.”

    Reach out to your most trusted old friends & family & tell them what you are dealing with & ask them to accept your apology for blocking them out of your life. Those that accept your apology are true friends.

    You state:

    “I’m trying to make new friends, I am meeting my daughter’s friend’s mum today, she knows the situation but doesn’t fully understand”.

    This is a good step. My advise is limit how much time to talk about this subject with this “new friend”…most likely she will never get what you truly are going thur and might get tired of hearing everyday what this man is putting you thru.

    Luck up the site “Meetup. com…its a site that list all the clubs, organizations etc in your area…there might be other sites to. This would be good for you to get out & just have some fun and not think about this sociopath & his mind game.

    You state:

    The hardest thing is to let go without having my say, but if that’s what it takes then I’ll write the letter and not send it.

    YOU get it = you never get your “say” with him..sociopaths do not want you to have any thoughts expect their thoughts in you head. They want to control your mind = mind control & brain washing literally.

    You state:

    “I’m supposed to meet him tomorrow, I’ll cancel following your advice.”

    YES!! DO NOT MEET HIM…HE IS SUCKING YOU BACK INTO HELL!! Run & keep your precious children away from him too!!

    Hugs to you!!💜

    Wishing you the best!

    PS be prepared from him to get angry if you dont go. Sociopath will use lovebombing to suck someone back into their game, if that does not work then they will use anger,intimidation, fear etc to get their target back into their grips. Follow the no contract rule with the help of your local abuse center & your counties National Domestic violence hotline 800-799-SAFE (USA) and their website. Look up the terms Domestic abuse safety plan & exit plan (there are also you tube videos on these exit plans)

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jan7.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 2 weeks ago by  Jan7.
    • #44954


      Thanks so much for your amazing message, yes it all makes sense but thanks for putting all of it so eloquently. The bit about my kids I suspected, as they won’t have him in the house due to his violent outburst two weeks ago, even if it were a possibility we would have nowhere to be alone. Your points resonated so much that I could physically feel the relief.
      I don’t know what I would do without you wonderful people, sending love, thanks and peace your way.

      • #44963


        Re Jan7’s comments on sociopathic language, some comments you heard were similar to mine, believe what he says. Here are some examples from my situation and “translation” into normal language.

        “I don’t like kids”. He didn’t. He was getting jealous when I paid more attention to my son. During my divorce proceedings from the father he kept saying that it would be easier for me if the father had custody.

        “I completely lack empathy due to my parents being abusive and spending time at the all boys boarding school” – the first part about empathy is true. The rest is a pity ploy (I had a PI in the UK to check if he went to a boarding school he didn’t. He was born in the UK (but told me he was born in Australia, see, even something as simple is made into a lie).

        “I have been a womaniser until I met you” = I am still a womaniser and sleep around

        “I found my (no 2) wife in bed with another man; she was cheating on me” = probably the other way around.

        “My first marriage was nothing, a 5 min thing on a drunken impulse” = it was nothing to him (lasted 10 yrs, until he had a child with someone else).

        “The mother of my daughter was a pscyho” = he is a psycho.

        “I was not allowed to see my daughter for 23 years” = most likely he had no interest in seeing his child.

        “ Women usually irritate me” – I will get angry if you question me (Which he did, when I asked a direct question or disagreed in an early days. He would give me cold treatment, stop talking and eventually I stopped disagreeing with him out of fear).

        “This is so easy” (in reference to our relationship) = I can’t believe you are so trusting and naive and believe all I tell you (e.g. that I work most weekends writing reports or helping people who had insurance related problems and that’s why I cannot spend time with you on weekends or my birthday or that I have my things in storage and live in hotels.)

        “I will not deliberately hurt your son and you” – I will hurt you but it will be all your fault (he did throw my son on a bed once, then claimed it didn’t hurt. Another reason I had to end).

        “You say I have another woman…highly unlikely” = Yes

        “You have low sexual morals” = he has low sexual morals (this was in his farewell email to me, as a reason for break up in his mind. Coming from a married man who was planning to commit bigamy).

        “You have me at check mate” = you are onto me. You have me in a corner (that what he was saying during our last meeting about 2 months ago).

        Hopefully this helps.

        Re your kids and him:

        Once of the reasons I did not end my relationship with him earlier was my concern as to how my son would react (sociopath was in his life since my boy was 3.5, so I did not want to add more losses to my son’s life. His father and I divorced when he was 2). But a week before we broke up, my son said a couple of things: “Mum, tell him to stop talking about other women all the time”; “Why is he lying?”; “That’s not right he left you on New Years Day”. And since the split my boy only mentioned SP once, asked if he was moving in. Told him no, decided to stay in his home town. My boy just gave me a long hug and never mentioned SP again. Says it all, doesn’t it?

        Lastly, predators target single mums. The last 2 wives of my SP were single mums. He also made comments about his preference for single mums when he did online dating (we met on a online dating site. Definitely staying away from those in the future). Vigilance and wisdom for us in the future!

        • #44974


          Hi Thirdtimelucky, thank you for posting this for Hope4us. This are the type of responses when I first left that really helped open my mind from my ex’s brain washing. When you see the words that were told to someone else you can see the abuse vs when you are in the tornado yourself if is hard to see the abuse fully.

  • #44956


    Hi Hope4us, you’re are so welcome!! I always say, one thing the sociopaths of this world do not count on, is victims lifting each other up.

    Here is an article I just found on the net with regards to why you should NEVER go to couples therapy with a sociopath. BTW The Book Why does he do that? by counselor Lundy Bancroft is excellent and has many great reviews from people that had a relationship with a sociopath.

    In addition to this article, do a search here on Lovefraud (top right corner) for Sociopath Therapy. Donna has written several on this subject too.

    Here is the article:

    Why Couples Counseling in Abusive Relationships Doesn’t Work
    Several people have asked about this and we’d like to address it in case any one of them – or anyone — is ever faced with this — or knows anyone who is faced with it:

    If you are in any type of intimate relationship where there is abuse: verbal, emotional, psychological (ie: gaslighting, crazymaking), sexual, or physical — and the abuser suggests “couples” or “partners” counseling as a means to try to “work things out” or as an ultimatum to stay in the relationship – DON’T fall for it.

    Couples counseling does NOT work where there is abuse in a relationship because it does not address the issue. Get your own individual, separate counseling to help deal with the abuse. If there is abuse, then abuse is the ONLY issue — not “communication” problems or any other type of mutual interaction problem, so couples counseling will not address this situation properly — and may in fact make it worse.

    I had someone suggest this in a prior abusive relationship and soon realized that the reason he wanted couples counseling was ONLY because he wanted the counselor to FIX ME. In his opinion, nothing was wrong with HIM. He felt (and stated) that he was blameless, not responsible for his abusive behavior, flawless — and I was the one who was “messed up” and who had caused all or most of the issues in the relationship. He denied and minimized his abuse. Many abusers are very narcissistic in this way, viewing themselves as special, above reproach, incapable of making mistakes, and flawless – regardless what they’ve done or said to their partner. They think they should bear no responsibility for their behavior, or for how it affects others. A complete lack of empathy for their partner is usually very marked.

    In my situation, the counselor was fairly well-versed in abusive relationships and saw through this. I had spoken with her about this alone prior to signup. This is a good thing to check ahead of time – ask them directly if they are experienced with counseling people in abusive relationships, and if they’re familiar with the tactics of abusive partners.

    She soon began confronting him with some of his abuse and lo and behold, he railed and bailed. He minimized, blamed, denied – even blamed the counselor for “twisting things around” when actually she was UNTWISTING things. She was trying to get beyond his minimization, avoidance, projection, and denial about his abusive behavior to get to what was really behind it (anger and resentment, among other things and whatever was behind that). Having been confronted and not wanting to take responsibility or face himself, he ended it right then and there (which I fully expected having researched this – but it still hurt a lot at the time).

    Most abusers would rather end a relationship – no matter what the situation is – than take responsibility for their abusive behavior once confronted with it. It’s rare that they ever do anything to change, or look at themselves as being whatsoever at fault in driving their relationships to destruction.

    The problem is, an abusive person will only look at THEIR feelings and SOMEONE ELSE’S behavior — instead of looking at SOMEONE ELSE’S feelings and THEIR behavior (as Lundy Bancroft describes in the excerpt below).

    When confronted, one of two things will usually happen: They will escalate their abuse – or they will end it – claiming that their partner(s) are being “unreasonable”, “too sensitive” or “twisting things around”. They will claim THEMSELVES to be the victim.

    The abusive person will claim that *other* people are trying to make them “walk on eggshells” (projection) if they’re asked to recognize or respect anyone else’s feelings or needs. But, it is actually the abuser who chronically causes others to feel that way – with their constant criticism, name-calling, insults, condescension, humiliation, and blame. No one in their relationship(s) can do anything right in their eyes except them, and others will often try to modify their behavior in order to try to avoid the abuser’s constant devaluation and criticism. This is an exercise in futility, however.

    “Walking on eggshells” is how an abuser often describes any request to recognize or respect someone else’s feelings besides his/her own. (ie: “I’m not going to walk on eggshells around you!“) For most people who posses the ability to empathize normally, empathy isn’t an issue. For an abuser, it’s a lot of work because it’s not something they’re used to having to do — and it’s a skill they aren’t much interested in. When their partners express hurt because of the abuser’s behavior, the abuser will claim the partner is just “oversensitive”. The fact is, the abuser is the one who needs to develop some sensitivity.

    As I stated earlier, this is very narcissistic behavior. Abusers are often narcissists or sociopaths or simply have very strong narcissistic or sociopathic tendencies, primarily marked by a complete lack of empathy towards their partners (beyond the initial romance stage), or at least a marked inability or unwillingness to recognize or respect anyone’s feelings or needs other than their own.

    And this goes far beyond any “communication” problem or “incompatibility” issue. The issue – is the abuse.

    When abusive people go to couples therapy they simply learn to be more skilled abusers and many of them are quite skilled to begin with. Most are highly intelligent. My own ex was a member of Mensa, in fact.

    Couples therapy often will only reinforce abusive behavior and they become even more slick and condescending and manipulative with their tactics. That’s because couples therapy typically deals with abuse as if it were a mutual or communications issue – and it isn’t.

    Below is a GREAT write-up by Lundy Bancroft (author of “Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men“) about why couples counseling does NOT work in abusive relationships – and my own experience bears this out.

    *An abuser should go into a specialized abuser program and the target / victim should seek his/her own separate counseling. *I’ll warn that most abusers won’t stoop to such a thing – it would mean they have to admit they have personality problems/faults that have destroyed many of their relationships, and they’d have to be willing to undergo YEARS of tough self-evaluation and work to change — and chances of that are slim to none.

    It’s much easier for them to just find another target for their abuse.

    Anyway, here it is for those who asked:

    _ _ _ _ _

    Extract from “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft

    The more psychotherapy a client of mine has participated in, the more impossible I usually find it is to work with him.

    The highly “therapized” abuser tends to be slick, condescending, and manipulative. He uses the psychological concepts he has learned to dissect his partner’s flaws and dismiss her perceptions of abuse.
    He takes the responsibility for nothing that he does, he moves in a world where there are only unfortunate dynamics, miscommunications, symbolic acts. He expects to be rewarded for his emotional openness, handled gingerly because of his “vulnerability”, colluded with in skirting the damage he has done, and congratulated for his insight.
    Many years ago, a violent abuser in my program shared the following with us: “From working in therapy on my issues about anger toward my mother, I realized that when I punched my wife, it wasn’t really her I was hitting. It was my mother!” He sat back, ready for us to express our approval of his self-awareness. My colleague peered through his glasses at the man, unimpressed by his revelation. “No,” he said, “you were hitting your wife.”
    I have yet to meet an abuser who has made any meaningful and lasting changes in his behavior toward female partners through therapy, regardless of how much “insight” — most of it false — that he may have gained. The fact is that if an abuser finds a particularly skilled therapist and if the therapy is especially successful, when he is finished he will be A HAPPY, WELL-ADJUSTED ABUSER — good news for him, perhaps, but not such good news for his partner. Psychotherapy can be very valuable for the issues it is devised to address, but partner abuse is not one of them; an abusive man needs to be in a specialized program.
    _ _ _ _ _

    Also on couples therapy:

    Attempting to address abuse through couples therapy is like wrenching a nut the wrong way; it just gets even harder to undo than it was before.
    Couples therapy is designed to tackle issues that are mutual. It can be effective for overcoming barriers to communication, for untangling the childhood issues that each partner brings to the relationship, or for building intimacy.
    But you can’t accomplish any of these goals in the context of abuse. There can be no positive communication when one person doesn’t respect the other and strives to avoid equality.
    You can’t take the leaps of vulnerability involved in working through early emotional injuries while you are feeling emotionally unsafe — because you ARE emotionally unsafe. And if you succeed in achieving greater intimacy with your abusive partner, you will soon get hurt even worse than before because greater closeness means greater vulnerability for you.
    Couples counseling sends the abuser and the abused woman the wrong message. The abuser learns that his partner is “pushing his buttons” and “touching him off” and that she needs to adjust her behavior to avoid getting him so upset. This is precisely what he has been claiming all along.
    Change in abusers comes only from the reverse process, from completely stepping out of the notion that his partner plays any role in causing his abuse of her.
    An abuser also has to stop focusing on his feelings and his partner’s behavior, and look instead at her feelings and his behavior. Couples counseling allows him to stay stuck in the former. In fact, to some therapists, feelings are all that matters, and reality is more or less irrelevant. In this context, a therapist may turn to you and say, “But HE feels abused by YOU too.”
    Unfortunately, the more an abusive man is convinced that his grievances are more or less equal to yours, the less the chance that he will ever overcome his attitudes.
    The message to you from couples counseling is: “You can make your abusive partner behave better toward you by changing how YOU behave toward HIM.” Such a message is, frankly, fraudulent.
    ABUSE is NOT caused by bad relationship dynamics. You can’t manage your partner’s abusiveness by changing your behavior, but he wants you to think that you can. He says or leads you to believe, that “if you stop doing the things that upset me, and take better care of my needs, I will become a nonabusive partner.” It never materializes. And even if it worked, even if you could stop his abusiveness by catering to his every whim, is that a healthy way to live? If the way you behave in the relationship is a response to the threat of abuse, are you a voluntary participant?
    If you have issues you would like to work on with a couples counselor, wait until your partner has been COMPLETELY ABUSE-FREE for two years. Then you might be able to work on some of the problems that truly are mutual ones.””

  • #44960


    Hi Jan7,
    Again much to draw strength and learn from. I’ve bitten the bullet tonight as he gave me the perfect excuse, procrastinating about meeting due to paranoia and complex feelings. I told him it was a good point to leave it and blocked him, I’ve listend to one of his voicemails, as he keeps ringing, and felt guilt fleetingly because he sounded desperate, but I wont listen to anymore. I’m scared about the fallout now, frantically searching my brian on things that he can use to smear me. Hang on a minute, I’m not a bad person that’s the reason he targeted me, but yeah I’m scared. Thanks again for taking the time to post, I really appreciate it.

    • #44965


      Hi Hope4us, good job blocking him & starting the No contact rule again.

      They know how to use words to manipulate everyone. This is why it is vitally important NOT to listen to their lying manipulating voice mails. It’s all the same song & dance from them to suck everyone into their con game. You know this!! You get it!

      YOU ARE A GOOD PERSON!!! Yes, they target good, kind hearted, hard working, mature people.

      how to you stop the smear campaign?

      You tell your friends that he is a con artist and has been lying to you & everyone since day one. Give them a few examples. You can say that you believe he is a sociopath con artist. This will not only protect you but it will plant the seed in everyones mind that they need to be on guard with this guy…and once they see him drop his mask they WILL realize you did tell them the truth.

      You are taking great steps to get this guy out of your life and your kids lives. Know this!! It seems your kids see the red flags with this guy…I always believe you must listen to kids & pets as they listen to their gut vs following social norms of being polite to everyone. This is something that adults need to pay more attend to = drop social norms “you need to be nice to everyone” and just follow your gut instinct.

      • #44975


        Hi Jan7,
        Thank you for posting the info about why couple’s counselling does not work. The extract from that article makes a very important point: the abuser is likely to become more skilled at manipulating his victim after counselling. My SP ex used to tell me that he did Masters of Psychology (a lie) and every time I did or said something that displeased him, he used psycho lingo to get his way: e.g. saying it was my insecurities, anger at my parents, unresolved childhood issues, fear of failure, etc etc.
        My friends he did not approve of were also described in psycho lingo designed to prevent my contact with them. Most of the women in his prior life were described as psychopaths.
        In his final email to me I was described as a somatic naricissist (a spot on description of himself just forgot to add “and sociopath”).
        I did not even try couples counselling but it would not have been successful (I tried it with my son’s father and it did not work; the family report for the custody litigation described the father as “accused his former wife of many shortcomings but did not admit any of his shortcomings”.).

        • #44976


          Hi thirdtimelucky, yes, sociopaths are masters of manipulation, not only in counseling, but when you get home, they use all that they learned by watching & mimicking the counselor on you. This happened with me during marriage counseling with my ex, who begged me to stay & go to counseling. When the counselor was catching on to who he was (or at least seeing glimpse of his lies), on the car ride home he would continually repeat “Don’t trust this counselor” (like 100 times during the ride home) which I know now he was brain washing me!!

          My mind was so twisted up during marriage counseling…not one counselor, we went to several, ever told me I was dealing with a sociopath, despite me listing EVERY trait of a sociopath i.e. lacks remorse, lies, uses manipulation etc etc. I had no idea that I was repeating traits of a sociopath. The counselors lack understanding not only of how to spot a vicim of sociopathic abuse, but also how to spot a sociopath, even when right under their nose. I stayed 7 more years in hell despite reaching out for help at counseling. On top of that not one of the counselors ever asked me if I was being abused. Never explained what mental, emotional or verbal abuse really is. I feel like they failed me, I was reaching out for help and they never help. Yet, when I finally left & found a new counselors, that counselor told me within 20 mins, that I was dealing with a sociopath just by me explaining what I had been dealing with daily & why I packed the car & left him without him knowing.

          It hurts deeply that those counselors did not help me out of hell. This is why I empathizes to everyone to go to individual counseling (and best without the mate knowing) not marriage counseling. I read many articles when I first left my ex about the same = NEVER EVER go to counseling with a sociopath = you leave emotionally & mentally drained and they use everything they learn in counseling to further destroy you. It’s heart breaking to think about that time.

          These sociopaths know who they are. They know they are sociopaths. My ex like yours, knew who he was. The fact that you ex said he had a ” Masters of Psychology” is a HUGE RED FLAG that you are dealing with a sociopath!

          YES Thirdtimelucky… he did not have a “degree in Psychology” but he did master the art of screwing with everyones mind…that is what he most likely meant when he told you that he had a “degree”.

          My ex told me when we first met that he had read “all the psychology books”, which was not even in his career field…Its crazy that they all say these things!! My ex went on to tell me that he had all the “books in his home library”. When I finally made my escape I went into his office and looked around at all the book shelves and could not find one book on psychology. Everything he said to me in the beginning was to Fu*k with my mind!! Just like yours. (sorry for the bad language but that is the only way to describe what they do to you).

          Yep, your ex is masterful at sociopath projection!

          Such a crazy world we live in. So much destruction by these sick sick twisted dead souls.

          Glad you see the truth now. Glad you found your way to this wonderful site, Lovefraud.

  • #44982


    At least I know now to run the other direction and fast if someone I meet tries to give me psych books or “fix me up”. I got caught in that twice:
    My son’s dad during the very short and worldwind courship gave me two books that were “must” (And apparently he did couples counselling studies): “Marry Him (the case for marrying a Mr Good Enough)” and “The Road Less Travelled”. Both are perfectly good books (since I have done a family law and mediation course and had to study them in depth). But the way he used them was: He was my last chance to have a baby as at 35 my clock was ticking so I could either hope for Mr Right or take advice of the first book and marry him asap. The second book was used to justify that I did not need to be in love with him or like him as “romantic love dies anyway”. A complete misinterpretation of both books.
    SP ex gave me a book called “Dancers with Anger” on our 2nd date. His message to me was that my relationship with my parents was toxic and I had to distance myself from them to stop their manipulation. There was a grain of truth in that but in hindsight he tried to use is as an isolation technique.

    Last red flag I’d like to mention: even in the early days when I saw him relaxed & resting (e.g. in bed), he had this look that my mind called “a resting serpent”. Like a snake lazing in the son, relaxed but prepared to strike. I later found out it is called “reptilian gaze” and is indeed a sign of sociopath.

    Yes, as you say, always trust your gut.

    I am sorry to hear that the counselling with your ex made you spend another 7 years with him, but it is very encouraging to see you recovering and thank you for sharing your experience with this forum.

    • #44989


      Thirdtimelucky, Thank you for your kind words. 💜

      It’s so crazy when these sociopaths do the same behavior. Yours with books & mine. I love to read. Loved to go to the library. He said he like to read, had a office full of books, yet, would only read maybe a chapter in a book, but never, did I see him actually finish a book in the 12 years of marriage. Not once.

      He did however, put a book on the kitchen table towards the end of the marriage (can remember the title, reminds me of when Donna Anderson’s ex sociopath put her rings in the lock box with a birth certificate of the baby that was born during her marriage by another woman who had no idea about Donna nor Donna of her but her ex wanted her to see it at the end of their marriage when Donna was out of money), while he was on a “business trip”, I started to read this book, to see why he put it on the kitchen table. My gut was telling me he put it there intentionally. At the time I was extremely sick (now I know from the daily stress, chaos, abuse& gas lighting he was inflicting on me), I started to read the book and it was shocking the book was basically how to manipulate everyone to do what you wanted.

      My mind was not clearly connecting everything with regards to his manipulation towards me & this book. it was however, a light bulb moment, that stuck in my mind. As you know, when you are in a relationship with a sociopath your mind is not your own to think clearly. They have it twisted up with brain washing & mind control. I remember also thinking what kind of person writes such an awful book = sociopath!!

      He also once, had me read a classic book, when I told him I wanted to read all the old classics that I had never read in high school. He ran to his office & then handed me a book. I started to read it but it was too dark. I light happy books & movies, not dark evil books. I told him I did not like the book after only reading the first chapter and was not going to continue to read it. He basically demanded that I read it. I continued to reading and hated the book. After I finished the book he literally interrogated me about what I had read. As if it was a College Literary oral final exam interrogation. I’m just shaking my head now at all the bread crumbs he gave me during the marriage as to him being a sociopath. The book I realize after I left, is about a young man who is a sociopath (not mentioned in the book) and how he was cold towards everyone including his own mother, used people and he ended up murdering someone in the book.

      They know who they are. The highly functioning sociopaths will use what they have read, or watched in a movie/tv to manipulate you. Just like your ex narcissist & sociopath. When I normal person reads a book like that old “classic” book, we just dont connect the character because it is not how we think or act or the people in our lives think or act…however a sociopath sees common behavior & connects with the other sociopaths that they see in movies character or a book character in books. So yes, this is a red flag if someone hands you a book that is dark or convincing you to date him. My ex had to manipulate me to date him, I had zero interested.

      I read a study after I left, that human’s can determine if someone is trustworthy with in 3 seconds of meeting them. The red flag bed serpent behavior, you witnessed by your ex, is one of those moments. Your mind solved the puzzle of this evil man at that moment you were with, but unfortunately, you did not have the actual word “sociopath” to explain at the time he was a sociopath. And your gut alarm was blaring loudly.

      I’m sorry too, to hear that you were taken in by two extremely evil men. So much heartache on this planet. The sadist part of this whole nightmare for all of the victims is these abusive relationships keep occurring with every generation simply because our society (1000 years), is not, educated on the fact that narcissist, sociopaths & psychopath blend into our society. Heart wrenching.

      Thank goodness for Donna & Terry’s hardwork in setting this insightful educational website.

      Glad you are moving forward & connecting all the dots of your ex(s). Soon you will only see them as pure evil. That is a good moment. Seeing the truth.

      Take care.

  • #44988


    thirdtime Good to see you doing well. Good to get your life back.

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