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This topic contains 6 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Jan7 4 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #45226

    thirdtimelucky
    Participant

    I’ve read about SP’s keeping tabs on their exes but did not realize that they can recruit other people to do it for them.

    I am in NC from my SP ex. Have heard nothing for about 4 weeks.

    Today I received an SMS from his daughter. She has not contacted me for 2 years. Now she wants to meet me for a glass of wine and said that her father is refusing to have contact with her.

    Told her I was no longer in a relationship with him and not to contact me. Suggested she emails her father if he was not answering her calls/texts.

    Her response was not “that’s a shame” or “when did it happen” but why we split up. I ignored the question as to me it was a red flag – “anything I say will be used against me”. Very scary to think he is keeping tabs on me.

    I am sure that my ex tried to use her to keep tabs on me (and to find out what I know about his secret life and if I would be likely to try and expose him). Apart from blocking her, is there anything else I can do to protect myself?

  • #45228

    Jan7
    Participant

    Thirdtimelucky, your gut instinct kicked in with regards to all of a sudden she is contacting you. Yep, this is what sociopaths do. If you block them they send in others that are under their spell. No doubt he has created a massive smear campaign against you to protect his marriage (spouse from finding out & leaving him). You know what he is up to = trouble.

    I agree with you assessment that “anything you say will be used against me”.

    You did the right thing blocking her. Next time if someone contacts you dont answer just implement the no contact rule asap & block them.

    I gave up all my friends that still had contact with my ex. I know that he is pure evil & did not want to endure an endless nightmare even after my divorce.

  • #45229

    Jan7
    Participant

    ps if you can print out or take a photo of her text, then do so & keep it filed just in case he/she causes any kind of drama. Also tell your closes friends & family about her contacting you also. This way if something happens down the road & you realize these people are start drama in your life you have proof for the police. This is how you have to deal with a sociopath & his pack.

    • #45230

      thirdtimelucky
      Participant

      Jan7,
      Thank you for your suggestion to copy her texts and save them (I did not think of it!).

      Just to show how SPs operate, my ex had this child whilst he was married to wife no 1. Without divorcing wife no 1, he moved in with his pregnant girlfriend. Told me that he had to leave the relationship when the daughter was 2 yo as her mother was physically and emotionally abusive. Apparently used to go into jealous rages. Also told me the mother used drugs on occasion and was sexually promiscuous. “I tried to be a hands on dad, got up during the night, but the mother just kept abusing me. She then won total custody of my daughter and I did not see her until she was 23”.

      As part of my PI inquiries, the truth was that he was already living with someone else when this child was 6 months old (probably walked out on her mother shortly after birth). He then divorced wife no 1; married wife no 2 (at which point the mother of his daughter remarried. I am not sure about her winning full custody. SP told me numerous times he did not like kids. He was a “party boy” and “womaniser until I was 40”. He was 32 at the time and I have a feeling he did not want anything to do with the child).

      He then divorced wife no 2 and married wife no 3 (the current one). By comparing property and divorce records, it looks like at the time he divorced no 2, he was already with future no 3.

      His daughter appeared out of nowhere in the 2nd year of our relationship, he was hot and cold with her (either “she is so like me” or calling her all sorts of names. He then cut contact with her 12 months ago (apparently she kept asking for money but who knows).

      I’ve only met her 4 times and she never made an effort to have contact with me (I thought at the time she was a psycho. Now I see she is so like her dad).

      I am not sure if she knows that her father is married to someone else (he introduced her to me as his “future wife”, to my knowledge he did not tell her about his real family and kept that life secret, e.g. she thought he was living in a shared house).

      This is what puzzles me: why not introduce his daughter to his wife and keep me secret (especially as I live in a different town from his daughter and wife)? To me it makes no sense but then nothing to do with SP does.

      I am aware of a smear campaign strategy. My close friends and family do not like him. I was kept secret from his friends and family. However, he met a couple of dad’s at my son’s school last year. I am mindful that he could approach them for information (and warned their wives that we broke up and not talking, without giving real details).

  • #45231

    Jan7
    Participant

    Hi Thirdtimelucky, I am so glad that you got away from this crazy manipulative sociopath!! You were so smart in hiring a PI to uncover this guys crazy double life!

    I am a firm believer in listening to your gut, especially now that I have learned so much about what these evil people do when they are not with you and your gut is telling you a lot of good info. If you think his daughter is a “psycho”, BELIEVE your gut!!

    First impressions are lasting impressions!!

    The apple typically does not fall far from the tree, especially a sociopath’s tree. Not all children of a psychopath are psychopath. However, they can easily pick up patterns of bad behavior from their parent psychopath. And you were picking up something from her that made you notice her behavior was not normal.

    What is this daughters agenda?

    Is she doing this on her own? Most likely NOT. She had to hear from him that you two broke up. So to me she is nothing but trouble in your life.

    I’m sorry that you lived thru such a nightmare with this crazy guy. Was the PI that you hired shocked by his findings or is this typical with his investigation?

    I called a PI during my marriage because I felt that he was cheating but had no proof. We both have jobs were we traveled weekly out of state. My ex at the time was using a work cell phone & I did not have access to his phone bill. I thought he was screwing around with a co worker but he was spinning my head so much with chaos & drama at home, that I literally could not think clearly, while at the same time using love bombing games. And his work was not in town & his co worker lived in the opposite direction. When I spoke with the PI he just told me to check the bill. That all the “answers are always in the phone bill”. About 1 1/2 later he told me that his company he worked for was upset for him using their “cell phone for other business”. So he purchases a personal cell phone. That’s when I was able to check the phone bill & found that he & she were talking endlessly. Every time he was on the phone for “business” he was really talking to her. This is why his company told him to purchase his own phone! While with her, he was calling me on his business phone. It was so crazy. He had endless energy.

    You state: “This is what puzzles me: why not introduce his daughter to his wife and keep me secret (especially as I live in a different town from his daughter and wife)?”

    Sociopaths love to play mind games with everyone!! This was some kind of twisted mind game either with you or her or both by your ex. Like a cat playing with a mouse for fun. My ex was on a business trip north of our home and invited me up to stay at his hotel. I drove up & guess who joined us for dinner…his mistress i.e. co worker!! (at the time I did not have confirmation of their affair but I was very suspicious). I believe he had me go up to the hotel to control her in some way & me too and he told me after he admitted to the affair that she wanted to have an “open” relationship with him, meaning she wanted to divorce her husband & have my ex do the same with me. She was tired of “sneaking around” (at least this is what he told me when I found the phone bill & pieced everything together.

    Close the door on his daughter too. Keep his emails & his daughters text for record. And then slam the door closed on her (him) & dont think about her again unless you see something odd at your home or see her at places you frequent etc. Clear your mind of her…dont let her rent space in your mind!!

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by  Jan7.
    • #45234

      thirdtimelucky
      Participant

      Jan7,

      Thank you for your comments and sharing your story.

      Yes, the PI was horrified and his advise was the same as my lawyers – end the relationship asap but do not tell the guy you know about his secret life (as he went into so much effort hiding it, there was a possibility he’d turn dangerous if he knew his game was up.

      Your story about dinner with the mistress is terrible – sadly, it is common. I was told “a friend is paying my bills and does my admin in return for me paying my mortgage. I also use her address for correspondence and to garage my car”. That “friend” turned out to be his wife. But at the time I believed his story and that he was sharing a room in a friend’s house and “was not allowed to bring guests” as I was told “I am moving in with you next month – no point renting a place”.

      By that stage I was so trauma bonded to him (reading up on trauma bonding really helped me to understand why I did not call him on his lies or started investigations sooner. This is really important to understand how they bind us to them, make us literally chemically addicted to them) that I swallowed his lies.

      What you say about trusting your gut is very powerful. We met on line and (in hindsight) he mirrored me perfectly in chat. So I was excited to meet him. But our first lunch date did not go well – he was late, I did not find him attractive and was unsure what to think.

      But then we had this most amazing email chats (in hindsight, all mirrored) followed by intense sex. So That’s how I ended up hooked. Even then I questioned him in the early day why he was always away or not answering his phone. His response was “on the road”, “important job”, “secret service” and “if you don’t accept it, just go”, “you don’t understand what is to work hard”. So I started to doubt myself and accepted the situation. This is how it started.

      But my gut after the first date said: “not sure, be careful”. So yes, listen to your gut.

      I was so vulnerable at the time, in the middle of court case with my son’s dad so I was grateful for any attention I got. That’s what they do – SP prey on vulnerable.

      Then they gaslight us and play with our minds and we are taught at school to use mind and logic and not our gut.

      His daughter has been blocked. I doubt I hear from her again.

  • #45245

    Jan7
    Participant

    Hi Thirdtimelucky, your ex’s word con game was unbelievable…no doubt he is still using the same EXACT con game of words to suck in more victims & keeping his wife in his grips.

    “a friend is paying my bills and does my admin in return for me paying my mortgage. I also use her address for correspondence and to garage my car”.

    What he was telling you was plausible…he was just helping out a friend right? Who wont believe what he told you. My ex’s con game of words was also believable to a certain extent. But in the beginning I saw some of his lies..but I never dealt with someone that lied. It’s shocking to hear the lies & then how do you deal with the lies once you realize they are lying? If you have not been taught as a child to call out someones lies how do you know how to handle such a situation?? I am not an argumentative person or a conformational person so being in a relationship with a sociopath is stressful & anxiety ridden just from this prospective.

    The reality is, we all were brought up by honest parents, we picked our circle of friends that were honest, so when one of these evil types comes along we dont know how to deal with their lying & scheming. We are shocked…sociopaths use “double think” manipulation (google this) so that we are left confused & doubting our own thoughts & what they said.

    Do we call them out? do we start an argument? or do we remain silent? Remaining silent is what sociopath want you to do. But they also, love an agreement where they can twist your mind up even more just for fun. My ex could twist up everyones mind so quickly even to get out of a speeding ticket, or dealings in divorce court judge, boss, family or me. I bet your ex was the same too!?!

    It’s so crazy what we all endured. Some moments I’m still shocked about this whole crazy world we live in after educating myself. Yes, I knew there were bad people in this world but never knew that there were text book terms for their craziness.

    You state:

    “I was so vulnerable at the time, in the middle of court case with my son’s dad so I was grateful for any attention I got. That’s what they do – SP prey on vulnerable.”

    Donna, has written many articles on the dangers of online dating (you can do a search on LF to read them). I think good old fashion meeting someone & believe your gut instinct right away is most important. My gut reaction, like yours, was dead accurate when meeting my ex the very second I met him thru a mutual friend. The second meeting was even more accurate…but I ignored the red flags because I was lonely & because he had a huge group of friends so I convinced myself that my gut was not accurate because… why would all these people be his friend??

    I had Just moved to a new town for a new job. Most dangerous time according to Steven Hassan cult & domestic abuse expert for someone to meet a abuser, is when they have had a life change i.e. divorce (like you), death in the family, move (like me), going of to college, new job etc. So this is something that we all have to look out for when we have a changes in our life = dont let your guard down.

    You state:

    “So I was excited to meet him. But our first lunch date did not go well – he was late, I did not find him attractive and was unsure what to think.”

    I did not find my ex attractive ever. He was late for everything! I wonder if your ex was late intentionally to have power over you??

    I read a study that we can determine within 3 seconds if someone is trustworthy or not. Your gut instinct was correct not only about him, but most likely about his daughter too.

    Google: “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to watch their video on listen to your gut.

    My ex mirrored me in the beginning too. I think they all do this go suck us all in. If I left a sweet note for him before I left for work, days later he would leave me a very similar worded note or on the phone. I remember thinking it was odd. Those “odd” moments someone gives off are like a bread crumb trail once you finally want to see the truth…then you see the years of bread crumbs they dropped along from day one. Odd moments = red flags!!

    If I think about it too much I can get sad about the whole nightmare, especially the fact that my gut alarm went off the very second I met him like yours. If only we could go back and RUN LIKE HELL FROM THEM (lol) Wishful thinking.

    I remember sitting at the dinner table with his co worker & him just wanting to get up & RUN out, go back to the hotel & pack my things & leave him. But of course the “what if I am wrong about the two of them”…then I just made a complete fool of myself. So I sat there going between anger & tears but holding it all in so not to show my internal emotions outward. He controlled us both at that very table.

    Anyways, I’m glad that you know the truth about this evil guy & that you found the strength to post here at love fraud & continue to post. Asking questions & having a convention with someone who understands helped me tremendously when I first left to unraveling my brain from all the craziness that I endured. So I’m glad that you are asking questions & posting and hope it is helping you also.

    Wishing you a wonderful day to day!! 😊

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