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Were they sociopaths?Should I be afraid?

This topic contains 27 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  claudette 4 months, 4 weeks ago.

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  • #46237

    claudette
    Participant

    I really need your help! Here is my story: Around January I was the target of a workplace bullying by a colleague. I was vulnerable and maybe even depressed. At that time I was offered support by one of my two bosses and her husband. (I hadn’t really asked for this, I was offered this) Their profile: married for nearly 20 years, around 48 years of age, no children, a lot of serious financial problems (they were indebted from credit cards usage and were having trials with banks for these debts), the husband unemployed for a long period of time. They are both tall (175 cm the woman and 185cm the husband) and strong. The husband seemed quote paranoid at some discussions and quick tempered. My profile: I am a 36 year old woman, new to their town because of my job, divorced, no children, very qualified concerning my job and I look much younger than my age as everybody tells me. I am 155cm tall around 50 kgs and I look very thin.
    The so-called close “friendship” lasted about 3 months. During this period:
    1)They called me all the time (my boss at first and her husband after some time) at my cell phone even 3 or 4 times a day for no serious reason- just to talk. They never sent even a single sms, only calling.I didn’t like it. I found excuses (even health issues) but they didn’t stop.2) They insisted strongly that I go to visit them at their home during the workweek (every weekend I used to go to my hometown, where my parents and old friends live) to have dinner and talk. The invitation was for 10 pm and they didn’t let me leave, they wanted to prolong my visit. They insisted that I slept over their place, something I didn’t want but did it for 3 times after much much pressure. The insisted that I slept at their bed with my boss and her husband on the couch at another room. I didn’t feel comfortable, I told them I didn’t want it, they insisted in many ways.Of course I didn’t sleep well any of the 3 times that I slept over. But even when I didn’t sleep there, they deprived me of my sleep by prolonging the visit. The next day at work I felt like a zombie every time, I couldn’t function. My boss though seem not to be affected by this sleep deprivation at work, she could function very well.
    3) They started visiting uninvited my hometown at weekends and were calling me at last minute. They came at least 5 times during weekends these 3 months of our “friendship”. They insisted to meet my parents and come to their house which I did not allow even though they pressured me.
    4) They pressured me very strongly (especially the husband) to use a new cellphone even though I was happy with my old fashioned one. They kept calling me about it (both of them) time after time after time until I gave in. The same pressure came concerning my laptop: the husband offered to fix it for free (it had some problems, but I didn’t want to give it to him) and kept celling and calling and calling until guess what??? I gave in. Now, I have lost my sleep at the thought that he probably has kept photos and othrt stuff he found there.
    5) They started asking big favors as a kind of exchange such as if I knew people working at banks to help them or even judges for the trials that I knew (it happened that I was friend with a judge) to help them with their financial troubles, even though they kept spending money on jewellery, food, vacation etc.etc.
    6) They wanted to know everything about my ex husband even though our relationship ended years ago, I am really over it, I didn’t want to talk about it.They wanted to go on summer vacation together, they wanted to spend the whole summer together. I said no.
    At some time around early June I couldn’t stand it any more. The pressure became bigger and bigger. They kept calling even at the one hour a week that I was having a foreign language class and they knew it. She told me to go study at her home and take a bath there!!He became angry one time that he invited me at their home and said I had this foreign language class!!Someday I didn’t answer her calls right away. She kept on calling all day. At around 7 pm I told her “I don’t have time to talk to you right now, I’ll see you tomorrow”. The next second she called me again outraged!!! She told me: “I didn’t like your tone of speaking, couldn’t you find one second all day to talk to me?” I apologised, I told her I had some issues, I offered to go ou with them for a coffee. She gave me the silent treatment for two weeks. She called me one weekend that I was sitting exams and she knew it. I didn’t call her back. At work she told me that it was for a work-related issue. I didn’t believe it. I told her I was studying.
    At June 30, my contract was renewed for another year. At that day her husband called me to congratulate me and to try solve the “misunderstanding”. I think that even for the first time I set boundaries in a kind , non confrontational way. I standed my ground. He accused me of not being there for my friends at hard times!!!!And other things. I standed my ground. 30 minutes later she called me outraged and told me “things aren’t as you told my husband”, I couldn’t stand it. I told her I didn’t have anymore time to talk. It was the first day of the summer break. I haven’t called her back. She hasn’t either, at least until now.
    I suffer from ptsd. I couldn’t sleep, eat, I keep thinking that she will do everything she can to take revenge on me the next year, I obsessed about them, the cellphone rings and I cannot stand the sound, I close it all the time… I cannot break my contract now, I have to be at this job for the next year.
    Please tell me: What did these two people want from me????is it possible that they had something sexual in mind???What kind of revenge shall I be afraid of? How should I behave towards her? They know a lot about me, my thinking, my vulnerabilities…Do you think they were disordered???Oh please, please, help me…Sorry for the big post and any grammar or vocabulary mistakes that I’ve made, english isn’t my native. Thank you in anticipation!!!

  • #46238

    mikederek
    Participant

    Claudette –

    It sounds like an awful ordeal you’ve been going through… I’m very sorry that two people preyed upon the love and trust in you to further their personal agenda. Could you clarify the professional relationship you have with these people? Are they truly supervisotory to you at the workplace? Do you have any recourses such as HR department or a supervisor higher up than your immediate?

    These people sound extremely entitled, dangerous, and unpredictable. I know the type of individual that you discuss. Whether or not they could be truly disordered? I’m quite certain a psychologist could evaluate both of them with a great degree of interest and insight. And whether they clinically fit the criteria for any particular personality disorder is less important as the fact that they are behaving in a manner that does not respect your boundaries, your Agency, or you…

    These are the type of people who ignore the negative associations of their demanding relationships by simply believing, however unwarrantedly, that they are more important than you are, more entitled than you are, of a higher caliber or class than you are… etc.

    Which is so incredibly ironic when you look at the type of atrocities that people of this nature can commit as they easily and brazenly disregard the very humanity of another person if it serves their purpose at all to advance their own personally gratifying agendas.

    These people are opportunists. They like to keep people around because they use people as they need them by inventorying the skill sets of those they befriend. If they need help with a legal proceeding and they have a friend close to a judge, they’ll begin to court that friend and apply pressure to capitalize on the association.

    They have you sleeping in the same bed because perhaps they have a sexual scenario involving you they’ve concocted…

    Your best defense, if at all possible, is to discontinue any and every channel of communication with these individuals. You have to cut their ability to contact you completely off. They will refuse to send text messages because they demand that they are the center of attention whenever they are communicating.

    If you can, demand that your relationship remain completely and 100% professional and lodge a formal request through work that you wish to communicate with m if you can, demand that your relationship remain completely and 100% professional. Do not allow for a debate, and if they refuse to respect that at all then utilize higher channels within the infrastructure and formally complain and seek recourses. These people don’t think like you and I. However they are quite cowardly if they believe that their behavior could ever come to light as negative. As long as your threats to their public persona you should be fine and as long as you don’t overtly threaten that they should not become overly vindictive.

    I really hope you find a way to improve your current situation. I’ve been in your shoes and I know how hard it is and I know how alone you can feel at times. But you’re not alone, it’s just that not everyone can see these things that we see… and that you are experiencing. Sending love and light to you my friend.

  • #46239

    claudette
    Participant

    Dear mikederek, thank you so very much for your reply!!! Unfortunately in the country I live and work there isn’t anything like human resource department. But there is a supervisor higher than her. Her husband is unemployed, theoretically has nothing to do with this business but in reality he manipulates his wife’s behaviour completely. He is vindinctive and has at times made her turn against colleagues or even the supervisor higher than her. It’s him I am more afraid of than her in fact. I am pretty sure that they will try to take revenge on me. I feel trapped by the renewal of my contract. And the job itself was pretty great…
    Do you think they are going to communicaye with me again during summer break? What should I do? Should I not answer at all?

  • #46240

    claudette
    Participant

    It’s the unpredictable of their behaviour that causes me stress…

  • #46241

    mikederek
    Participant

    If possible, BLOCK their communications from your phone, so that if, but more likely when, they attempt to communicate, you will not even receive it. If they manage to contact you again, respectfully request that they respect your wishes to privacy and that your life does not allow for their presence in it… if they do anything to make your feel that your boundaries are not being respected, seek out whatever remedy you can find available. Tell your family, friends, other co-workers about the harassment. Make sure people are paying attention. And *DO NOT* let them monopolize any of your precious time with accusations and justifications.

    You have a right to befriend or not befriend anyone that you wish. Give them no ammunition, and their interest will fade. But if you feel that there is more danger in the man you discuss then I’m interpreting, do not ignore that gut feeling either. Your intuition is vital in dictating what your actions should be. Always listen to that voice… it is there to steer us for a reason.

  • #46242

    claudette
    Participant

    mikederek thank you so very much again!!!Yes, I think that this man could be dangerous. I have decided not to rent a house in the town my job is, as I did last year and to travel 3 hours everyday to and from work living in my hometown to be more safe. It will certainly going to be exhausting but I am afraid to live there alone with this vindictive man around…

  • #46243

    mikederek
    Participant

    Be safe my friend… follow your instincts. Just don’t give them ANY feedback is the safest way for you. Block communications and refuse to interact with the man at all. Limit your interactions at work with his wife to the bare minimum and keep it strictly professional. Always try to have someone nearby to witness any interactions you might need to have with this woman.

    Good luck my friend. xx

  • #46244

    claudette
    Participant

    mikederek, thank you so very much!!!I feel such an idiot for allowing them to violate my boundaries!!!Such a fool! I am afraid he may use photos or other stuff he found in my laptop. I have nightmares every night about them…

  • #46245

    claudette
    Participant

    An emendation: wherever I used the word “outraged” I meant “raged”!

  • #46246

    claudette
    Participant

    Donna,if you read this: I will be eternally grateful if you reply!

  • #46251

    slimone
    Participant

    Claudette,

    Mikederek is 100% correct. It is essential you cut any possibility of contact with these two. Either they BOTH have personality disorders, or one of them does, and is manipulating the other one to go along with their HORRIBLE behavior. This is likely the case.

    It doesn’t really matter what they are after. Doesn’t matter if it is sex, money, control, or just laughs. What matters is that they are behaving in totally controlling, dishonest, manipulative, and disrespectful ways. And they could be the types to impulsively ‘go too far’.

    One never knows. But you certainly don’t want to end up in a situation where they team up on you and cause you physical harm.

    As far as retaliation goes. Sometimes if we completely disconnect, the disordered person will grow bored and find a new target. Or they will keep bugging you. Either way, NO CONTACT. EVER. Is best.

    Slim

  • #46273

    marinapearl
    Participant

    I don’t know enough about sociopaths or narcissists, but I know a lot about energy vampires, and it sounds like one or both of this couple could be energy vampires. Recall how you felt when you were around them. Did you feel calm, relaxed, happy? Or did they make you feel uneasy, stressed, and exhausted? Energy vampires are not literal vampires, but they WILL suck the life out of you. Because they have no sense of self-worth, they must get it from others, so they feed off other people and take what they want in order to feel good about themselves. They do not care about your feelings. Ever. It is all about them.

    Of course, this couple could be a pair of manipulative sadists. There’s no way to know what they are for sure. But it’s pretty clear that they don’t care about you, and the best thing for your mental, emotional, and physical health is to stay away from them. If you can’t literally get away, because one of them is your boss, then the best thing to do is what is called “going greyrock”. It’s basically not showing any emotion with them, or sharing anything about your life, or having any reaction to them in any way. Essentially you make yourself as responsive as a rock. If they see that nothing they do has any effect on you, you hopefully will become boring to them, and they’ll move on to someone they CAN get a reaction out of. These people crave attention. They feed off of it. So don’t give it to them.

  • #46276

    claudette
    Participant

    slimone and marinapearl your replies gave me more validation (the same thing happened by mikederek’s reply of course).
    marinapearl, they were absolutely energy vampires!!!They made me feel drained of all my energy!!!I stopped going to the gym, I delayed doctor appointments (and because of this I face now a health issue that prevents me of going 2-3 days of holiday), I couldn’t write any poems (which I used to do), all my creativity kind of died and hasn’t return until now!!!I couldn’t even drink a cup of coffee on Sunday mornings feeling relaxed which was my favourite habit and I still cannot do it!!!God, when am I going to find those simple but so essential things for me? Am I going to find pleasure in all of these ever again?
    I had won an award for a poem at a national literary contest and she insisted that I gave it to her to read it at the time when we weren’t close!!I didn’t want it, I gave it to her though and she never ever told me one single comment about it!!Even though she pressured me to give it to her at a time when I hadn’t showed it to my own mother!Why, why did she want the copy of my poem and never told me a single thing about it? I feel that even my writing ability and the strength I used to find in literature was violated!
    One more important clue that I forgot to mention: she didn’t tell to anybody at all at work (40 colleagues and the boss higher than her) that we were spending any time together! I called her once for a big (and immoral in a sense) favour they had asked me (to talk to the judge), she were out with a colleague (in order to manipulate her, I knew it, they had told me) and she didn’t even mention my name when she answered the phone!!!And of course there was no “thank you”! Another time a colleague called her at a Sunday when we were having lunch in my hometown (where they kept coming at the weekends “out of the blue”, informed me the last minute and pressured me to go see them), she told her that she had come for a trip with her husband there but she didn’t mention she was with me! Again! Why do you thing she did that? This clue made me suspicious about their motives, intentions or plans about me.
    I will try to use the gray rock method but my true self is the total oposite!And I had showed my true self at work. Do you think she could guess I’m pretending?
    I want so badly this PTSD to end…Thank you again for your replies, all the three of you. God bless you…

  • #46277

    claudette
    Participant

    Something else (important I suppose): at the beginning of June the husband insisted so strongly that I rent a flat just below theirs, in the same building!!I kindly declined using an excuse which made perfect sense but he didn’t stop pressuring me! He tried to find a way to “delete” the excuse. But at that time I had already felt that I need to get away from them. As I already have said, I have decided to live in my hometown and drive about 2-2,5 hoours per day to and from work to feel safe even though I know it will be exhausting! Why do you think he wanted me so badly to rent this particular flat? God, what did they have in mind? I know that I cannot know for sure but this question is haunting me…

  • #46279

    marinapearl
    Participant

    I know what you mean about feeling drained! It was the same with my ex-fiancé. I lost all interest in my hobbies, and all the things that made me happy. I love to draw, and during the whole time I was with him, I never once put a pencil to paper. I just felt exhausted all the time and I couldn’t figure out why. Finally I realized it was because I was spending all my time and energy making HIM happy, and bolstering his fragile ego, and trying to prevent his all-too-common meltdowns. Ugh, WHY do we do it? Why do we sacrifice our own happiness for these crapweasels??

    Even now, I find it hard to muster up interest in any of the things I used to love. But it’s so important that we find a way to get that back. Start out with small things. MAKE yourself drink that leisurely cup of coffee on Sunday morning. Write SOMETHING, even if it’s just a few sentences in a journal. For me, I love the beach. Even when I’m feeling terrible, just standing barefoot on the shore makes me feel better. Do what makes you happy.

    As far as greyrocking goes, yeah it will be hard. It’s hard NOT to show how these people have gotten to you, because you want them to feel accountable for how they treated you. But they never will. They WANT to see how they’ve gotten to you, because that’s how they get their power. So don’t give it to them. Be a robot. Or a Borg. Make sure they know their attempts are futile.

  • #46284

    Jan7
    Participant

    YES! It could be just he is a sociopath & she is his current victim or both are or she is & he is not. But, either way they are BAD news!!

    What did they do to you?

    crossed ALL of the boundaries you attempted to set.

    Love bombed you (or other term used grooming you)

    took all your time up

    made you sleep deprived

    wanted you to sleep at their home

    wanted you to take a bath at their home

    (Why?? camera’s in their home??)

    Did they install soft ware in your computer to watch you or to follow every key stoke you did??

    New Cell phone. Are they GPS tracking you via your phone??

    Hire an employment lawyer (specialize in employee issues) and GET OUT OF THIS CONTRACT ASAP!!! Get compensated for your loss of contract and move back to where you are from. A good lawyer will be able to contact past employees who no doubt have suffered from the same fate as you.

    THESE PEOPLE ARE DANGEROUS TO YOUR MIND SET, TO YOUR HEALTH & YOUR WELL BEING!!

    For your PSTD look into Adrenal fatigue symptoms. Look at sites like Drlam. com and Adrenal fatigue. org. Find a good Endocrinologist doctor to test you for cortisol levels, vitamin & mineral deficiency.

    I’m so sorry that you are enduring this nightmare. Horrific what you are enduring.

    PLEASE CONTACT THE LOCAL ABUSE CENTER ALSO ASAP FOR HELP & FREE COUNSELING.

    PLEASE CLEAR YOUR COMPUTER HISTORY EACH TIME. BETTER YET BUY A NEW COMPUTER SO THAT YOU KNOW THAT YOU WILL NOT BE TRACKED BY THESE CRAZY PEOPLE. There is software that can be installed on your computer so that they can track you. Not saying this is what they did but with sociopath this is the kind of crazy things the do to watch your every move. They also install hidden camera’s in peoples homes Their behavior is very much like a cult and they are attempting to suck you into their crazy disfunction world.

    Do a search here at LF for hidden cameras and computer tracking. Donna has articles on both.

    SENDING YOU HUGS!! 💜

  • #46285

    Jan7
    Participant

    not sure how much to write here for your safety since you dont know if your computer is safe or not. What cult leaders do aka sociopaths & phsycipaths is make the person depend on them for everything. They take your thinking away, your gut feeling way & you essentially become depended on them like a child with a parent. This is what they are doing. Very scary. How are they doing this? by pushing your boundaries by making all the decision for you & turning your head away from your gut instinct.

    YES. you should be worried for your safety. Keep a journal of everything they have done & said to you. And also keep a accurate record from here in out with dates, times, who witnessed etc. Talk to a Employee lawyer about Tell another co worker what is going on with some detail. This can be used in court. But ask the lawyer first.

    Use the “LOW CONTACT RULE” (google) with your this woman work related only (meaning while at work) follow the “No contact rule” (do a search on LF for this) after hours with both of them or anyone they get to contact you. Get a second phone and use the new phone and avoid this one or cancel this contract by talking with the phone company about what is going on = stalker type issue. Let old phone ring to voice mail. If they show up at your home dont let them in DONT EVEN answer the door. If they say anything to you just say you are “busy”.

    You did the right thing not introducing your parents to them! They are fishing for info on you most likely to control you and maybe also you parents. These two are crazy.

    Your GUT INSTICT IS WORKING!! LISTEN TO IT. YOUR GUT IS TELLING YOU THESE TWO ARE DANGEROUS. THAT THESE TWO ARE SOCIOPATHS!! LISTEN TO YOUR GUT!!

    Google “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube” to listen to their video on listening to your gut instinct. The gift of fear by Gavin Debecker is his book.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Jan7.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Jan7.
    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Jan7.
  • #46290

    claudette
    Participant

    Thank you marinapearl and Jan7!

    Jan7 you helped me to see the situation objectively. I had the same thoughts with you so I got my cellphone checked (paid a lot of money for this) and it isn’t spied. I haven’t done the same for my laptop because I don’t have anymore money but I’m not using it. I changed passwords to my emails, I use my brother’s laptop right now. I wouldn’t write a topic about them from a laptop that could be spied.
    All of your suggestions are excellent but unfortunately I live in a country where these things are not so easy. There isn’t a local abuse center in my hometown, I’ve seen a psychologist though because of this matter. I cannot either break my contract right now, the only thing Ι could do is to ask for an unpaid leave but I don’t have any financial resources except my salary…

    You couldn’t be more right when you said that they wanted me to depend on them like a child with a parent. That is exactly what they were doing. Exactly. Yes, they manipulated my decisions. Even the decision to ask for the renewal of my contract, I wasn’t sure if I wanted it when I was asked to decide…and now I am trapped. Yes, they probably wanted to control my parents too, I’m pretty sure of this. Oh God, the only thing I did right was not introducing them to my parents. I felt it so hasty, so inapropriate, so unnecessary!
    Thank you so much. You seem to know a lot about psychopathy, you were right in everything. God bless you all…

  • #46291

    claudette
    Participant

    Jan7 if you wanted to tell me something else and the idea of my laptop being spied stopped you, please do so!!!Please!!!

  • #46292

    Jan7
    Participant

    Claudette, you’re so welcome! Was married to a covet sociopath for 12 chaotic, crazy & drama filled years. At the end of my marriage my gut was telling me he put camera’s in our home to spy on me. I traveled for business weekly arriving home at different times (my ex travelled weekly different times) but when I came home alone one of his friends always stopped by our home right after I walked in the door. It was not coincidental & my gut was telling me this. Also my ex at the time would tell me some things that lead me to believe he had cameras.

    It was not until I read Donna’s article on sociopaths installing camera’s in the home that I knew he did this while I was married to him. I also saw a report on my local news about a landlord installing a camera devise on the cable cord of the TV that and watch his new tenant undressing in her bedroom, I knew that these insane people will go to great lengths to control us & our minds including my insane sociopath ex husband.

    When I finally escaped & drove 3000 miles away from him without him knowing, I was leaving I found a counselor and that counselor told me who he was within 20 minutes. I knew my gut was instinctively telling me to run from him. I know he is capable of killing me or anyone else. He would tell me such things & no doubt he would try it. After leaving I slowly learned to listen to my gut instinct again. Sociopaths manipulate us so much and some how make us turn our heads against our god give natural instinct. They slowly, like I said make the relationship a parent/child relationship when it comes to making our own decisions.

    I’m so glad you are listening to your strong gut intuition. It is accurate with these two individuals. Please be safe & on alert with these two crazy people. Tell your neighbors if they see them to tell you asap. Avoid this woman like the plague at work as best you can. Start telling others in the office that you TRUST to watch your back. Sociopath can easily turn on you & make you out as the bad guy to others. They can also get you arrested for things they have done but are so masterful at manipulation that they can even manipulate the police & judges & jury.

    KEEP A JOURNAL OF EVERYTHING PAST & PRESENT THEY HAVE SAID WITH DATES, TIMES, WITNESS & SPECIFIC LOCATION (i.e. in my office in the hallway at work etc).

    You are going to have to fake it that you dont know who they are when around her. Bit your tongue with her because all SOCIOPATH HATE TO BE EXPOSED. They will turn extremely revengeful on you if you expose them. I have read many stories of revengeful acts here at love fraud by sociopaths & also the true victims getting arrested without even doing the things they were arrested for.

    Does this woman have access to the Work business bank accounts?? And do you?? IF so make sure you have a someone else in the office high up to make sure she is not stealing company money where she can blame you.

    NEVER talk to the husband here in out. Go LOW CONTACT RULE with her (at work) & NO CONTACT WITH HIM fully and NO CONTACT With her outside of work. Do a search on LF for No contact rule and on the net for both of these rules.

    This is how you have to think with a crazy sociopath in your life. Start to befriend others in the office and sit with them at lunch (if you stay in the office for lunch). Start to bring in others in the office to circle you for safety. Tell only the most trusted what is going on so that they are aware. BUT ONLY if you can trust them.

    Tell your family & friends to call the police if they come by their home.

    I’m so sorry that you are enduring this horrific nightmare. So incredibly crazy what you are dealing with on a daily bases.

    Sending you huge hugs!! 💜💜💜

  • #46293

    Jan7
    Participant

    look up the terms here at Lovefraud & on the net:

    Sociopath smear campaign

    Sociopath triangulation

    Gas lighting abuse

    These are the evil things sociopaths do very stealthy to their target victims. Right now you are their target.

    You ask the question: What do these people want from me?

    Sociopaths want sex with you, your money, you fiends, you family, your life and at the same type they want to destroy you and ultimately they want Power & control over you.

    These people are doing everything to suck you into their cult like relationship. It’s very scary to read your post. I cant even imagine living this nightmare. So glad you researched, found your way to lovefruad & had the courage to post your horrific tale.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 1 week ago by  Jan7.
  • #46295

    Jan7
    Participant

    Steven Hassan a cult & domestic abuse expert has written books on mind control & brain washing. When I left my marriage & the counselor told me who my husband (now ex) was (a sociopath), I asked her if he was brain washing me, as this is how I felt….She said YES!! I had no clue really what brain washing was, other then hearing it in movies etc. So I researched brain washing & mind control & found Steven’s book Freedom of Mind. This is where I connected the fact that all sociopaths & psychopaths are cult leaders. It does not matter the size of the cult i.e. just a family domestic abusive situation or a large church cult or gang etc.

    Here is what Hassan says about how a cult leader breaks down someone every covertly:

    Many people think of mind control as an ambiguous, mystical process that cannot be defined in concrete terms. In reality, mind control refers to a specific set of methods and techniques, such as hypnosis or thought- stopping, that influence how a person thinks, feels, and acts. Like many bodies of knowledge, it is not inherently good or evil. If mind control techniques are used to empower an individual to have more choice, and authority for his life remains within himself, the effects can be beneficial. For example, benevolent mind control can be used to help people quit smoking without affecting any other behavior. Mind control becomes destructive when the locus of control is external and it is used to undermine a person’s ability to think and act independently.

    As employed by the most destructive cults, mind control seeks nothing less than to disrupt an individual’s authentic identity and reconstruct it in the image of the cult leader. I developed the BITE model to help people determine whether or not a group is practicing destructive mind control. The BITE model helps people understand how cults suppress individual member’s uniqueness and creativity. BITE stands for the cult’s control of an individual’s Behavior, Intellect, Thoughts, and Emotions.

    It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mindcontrolled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.

    We are all subject to influence from our parents, friends, teachers, co-workers… When this influence helps someone grow and maintain an internal locus of control, it is healthy. Influence which is used to keep people mindless and dependent is unhealthy. To download a PDF of the Influence Continuum graphic, click here.
    Destructive mind control is not just used by cults. Learn about the Human Trafficking BITE Model and the Terrorism BITE Model.

    The BITE Model
    I. Behavior Control
    II. Information Control
    III. Thought Control
    IV. Emotional Control
    Behavior Control

    1. Regulate individual’s physical reality
    2. Dictate where, how, and with whom the member lives and associates or isolates
    3. When, how and with whom the member has sex
    4. Control types of clothing and hairstyles
    5. Regulate diet – food and drink, hunger and/or fasting
    6. Manipulation and deprivation of sleep
    7. Financial exploitation, manipulation or dependence
    8. Restrict leisure, entertainment, vacation time
    9. Major time spent with group indoctrination and rituals and/or self indoctrination including the Internet
    10. Permission required for major decisions
    11. Thoughts, feelings, and activities (of self and others) reported to superiors
    12. Rewards and punishments used to modify behaviors, both positive and negative
    13. Discourage individualism, encourage group-think
    14. Impose rigid rules and regulations
    15. Instill dependency and obedience
    16. Threaten harm to family and friends
    17. Force individual to rape or be raped
    18. Instill dependency and obedience
    19. Encourage and engage in corporal punishment
    Information Control

    1. Deception:
    a. Deliberately withhold information
    b. Distort information to make it more acceptable
    c. Systematically lie to the cult member
    2. Minimize or discourage access to non-cult sources of information, including:
    a. Internet, TV, radio, books, articles, newspapers, magazines, other media
    b.Critical information
    c. Former members
    d. Keep members busy so they don’t have time to think and investigate
    e. Control through cell phone with texting, calls, internet tracking
    3. Compartmentalize information into Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
    a. Ensure that information is not freely accessible
    b.Control information at different levels and missions within group
    c. Allow only leadership to decide who needs to know what and when
    4. Encourage spying on other members
    a. Impose a buddy system to monitor and control member
    b.Report deviant thoughts, feelings and actions to leadership
    c. Ensure that individual behavior is monitored by group
    5. Extensive use of cult-generated information and propaganda, including:
    a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audiotapes, videotapes, YouTube, movies and other media
    b.Misquoting statements or using them out of context from non-cult sources
    6. Unethical use of confession
    a. Information about sins used to disrupt and/or dissolve identity boundaries
    b. Withholding forgiveness or absolution
    c. Manipulation of memory, possible false memories
    Thought Control

    1. Require members to internalize the group’s doctrine as truth
    a. Adopting the group’s ‘map of reality’ as reality
    b. Instill black and white thinking
    c. Decide between good vs. evil
    d. Organize people into us vs. them (insiders vs. outsiders)
    2.Change person’s name and identity
    3. Use of loaded language and clichés which constrict knowledge, stop critical thoughts and reduce complexities into platitudinous buzz words
    4. Encourage only ‘good and proper’ thoughts
    5. Hypnotic techniques are used to alter mental states, undermine critical thinking and even to age regress the member
    6. Memories are manipulated and false memories are created
    7. Teaching thought-stopping techniques which shut down reality testing by stopping negative thoughts and allowing only positive thoughts, including:
    a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
    b. Chanting
    c. Meditating
    d. Praying
    e. Speaking in tongues
    f. Singing or humming
    8. Rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism
    9. Forbid critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy allowed
    10. Labeling alternative belief systems as illegitimate, evil, or not useful
    Emotional Control

    1. Manipulate and narrow the range of feelings – some emotions and/or needs are deemed as evil, wrong or selfish
    2. Teach emotion-stopping techniques to block feelings of homesickness, anger, doubt
    3. Make the person feel that problems are always their own fault, never the leader’s or the group’s fault
    4. Promote feelings of guilt or unworthiness, such as
    a. Identity guilt
    b. You are not living up to your potential
    c. Your family is deficient
    d. Your past is suspect
    e. Your affiliations are unwise
    f. Your thoughts, feelings, actions are irrelevant or selfish
    g. Social guilt
    h. Historical guilt
    5. Instill fear, such as fear of:
    a. Thinking independently
    b. The outside world
    c. Enemies
    d. Losing one’s salvation
    e. Leaving or being shunned by the group
    f. Other’s disapproval
    6. Extremes of emotional highs and lows – love bombing and praise one moment and then declaring you are horrible sinner
    7. Ritualistic and sometimes public confession of sins
    8. Phobia indoctrination: inculcating irrational fears about leaving the group or questioning the leader’s authority
    a. No happiness or fulfillment possible outside of the group
    b. Terrible consequences if you leave: hell, demon possession, incurable diseases, accidents, suicide, insanity, 10,000 reincarnations, etc.
    c. Shunning of those who leave; fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family
    d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll
    e. Threats of harm to ex-member and family”

    (The above article is found by googling: Bite Mode Steven Hassan Freedom of mind). If you do a search here on Steven Hassan up at the top right corner you will find Donna’s article on his book. The book is worth a read as it will enlighten you not only for what you are dealing with now but in the future, as sociopath are everywhere blending into our society. Experts believe that 1 in 25 people are sociopath or psychopath. They are not all killers but they are all extremely abusive emotional, mentally, verbally, financially and/or physically.

    If you can do a back ground check on both of these individuals to see if they have a police record!! Also in the USA the FBI has an excellent site to check for any person that is a registered sexual abuser i.e. rapist etc. If you are not in the USA then check your country’s equivalent to see if they have this type of website. Please check this guy out!! Have your brother help you so that you don’t feel alone dealign with this nightmare.

    Do these people own the company you work for?

  • #46296

    Sunnygal
    Participant

    good luck. don’t give up.

  • #46304

    claudette
    Participant

    Jan7, I’m so sorry for what you have been through with your husband but at the same time so happy for you because you have the strength to leave him!Oh,God these people are devil!
    I hadn’t thought the thing you said, that

    They can also get you arrested for things they have done but are so masterful at manipulation that they can even manipulate the police & judges & jury.

    Oh God!If he has kept stuff from my lap top I feel so in danger!

    I’ll try to use the grey rock method but I don’t know if I’ll be able to do it effectively! My true self is the exact opposite and I’ve shown my true self at work! Is she gonna believe easily I’ve become a gray rock? If I befriend other colleagues as you suggest me, how can I be a gray rock at the same time?

    Concerning the resources about mind control that you gave me…That is exactly what they (and especially he)did to me!!!!!It’s so scary realising this!!!Do you think he’s gonna let me leave without consequences???I’m afraid not. The man is a psychopath, no doubt about it! That’s why they insisted so strongly that we spend the whole summer together! They wanted to keep me close so I could not escape from this sick group they got me in! That’s why he pressured me tremendously to rent a flat just below theirs! Also, they live in an isolated part of the town, so isolated that the first time I got there I wondered “why did the rent a flat in this terrible area? They could so easily find a place somewhere else, they live in the city permanently, they had the time to do all the searching needed!”Also she works permanently at this job, she doesn’t have a contract like me!
    I cannot check his police record, I live in Europe and not in a “improved” country, if you know what I mean. And no, they don’t own the company. Actually it’s not a company, it’s a public educational organisation. She has a permanent position there but he is unemployed! And I’m a teacher there.
    Here in my country terms like “workplace bullying”, “human resource department”, “sociopathy”, “emotional abuse” don’t exist!!! Or they exist for such a limited group of people that doesn’t mean anything. Even “school bullying” as a term has come here only the last 8 years!
    I’ve read Donna’s book and others from amazon in a quest to find answers for my divorce. My ex husband and his family of origin had absolutely sociopathic traits. When I found the answers I accepted the divorce, went no contact and got really over it (after much pain of course). I believed that I could recognise sociopathic traits after this experience and all this reading. I was wrong. But these two people were sooooo worse than my ex husband! At least with him I had never felt physically threatened…
    Sunnygal, thank you. My ptsd continues though. Today I slept just a few hours because of this. And I’m thinking “if I cannot sleep at my summer break how am I going to sleep when work starts and I’ll have to see her everyday???” Oh God…

  • #46311

    Jan7
    Participant

    Claudette,

    You state:

    “he has kept stuff from my lap top I feel so in danger!”

    This is what sociaopthsh do!! They always have a link to keep you in their grips. My ex h use to leave things at peoples homes where he traveled on business with their permission. This behavior was aways embarrassing to me. But, I realized after educating my self, he did this simply to have a reason to go back & keep them under his power & control.

    With this guy, you first must take in consideration that he put some type of spyware on your computer. Then think it was also so he had access to you at any time he wanted simply by saying “I need to get some things off your computer”. Have you looked to see what he put on your computer??

    This guy you are dealing with is very scary and seems to be very high on the sociopath scale of manipulation & coercion. My guess, is he has sucked many many people into this con game by using his wife as the front person to do the dirty work.

    IF he is unemployed good chance he uses people for money. But, also the fact they wanted you to spend the night in their room & take a bath is terrifying to read. What were they going to do if you stayed? Coerce you into having sex with him, or both or rape you. Please keep your guard up with these two crazy individuals.

    As for Steven Hassan’s Bite Model on mind control…yes, the first thing I thought of when reading your first post was this guy (or both of them) is a Cult leader looking manipulate people for cult followers. Very Scary!! It sounds like his wife is under his mind control ( his cult follower).

    So glad you have been following your gut instinct not to rent an apartment near them & not introducing your parents to them.

    Right now please remember you do NOT have to be nice to this woman at work. You just have to be business like at your work place. That is a big difference. You owe this woman NOTHING. So reach the LOW CONTACT RULE and follow it. This means you do NOT talk to her. You avoid her. If she wants to have a conversation with you, simply say I’m busy now. Keep it simple when addressing her if she attempts to talk with you. Do NOT talk to her alone. Dont get sucked back into their con game.

    If she is under her husbands brain washing she will be reporting back to him and he will be giving her ways to manipulate you. So just simply walk away from her. Do NOT get in an argument with her. Just say you are business & walk away.

    If you have a car please walk around the car before you get in to make sure say the tires are inflated properly or anything that might be out of order. Not to scare you but these individuals go to great length to get what they want. Just like a kid in the grocery store screaming for cookies & the parents just give in out of embarrassment or being tired.

    For your sleep, take care of your health = stress & sleep issues. Look into ADRENAL FATIGUE as the root health issue brought on by these two individuals.

    See sites like:

    Adrenal fatigue. org

    Dr Lam.com

    see their symptoms list.

    Eat a good clean diet lots & lots of veggies (google: “Super Juice me documentary you tube”, vitamin & minerals (B complex) a few times a day, rest, relax during the day. Look into Epson Salt baths to flood your body with magnesium which is a natural relaxer. IN the US you can find Epson Salt in the shampoo section of the Grocery store. Check with your doctor before making changes in diet or vitamins & minerals (including epson salt baths).

    I’m sorry that you were married to one of these nightmare individuals & are dealing with these two crazy people now. Just take one day at a time and keep the NO CONTACT RULE in place with this guy and his wife on the weekends & after work & summer break by blocking them on your phone and the Low contact rule with her at work.

    Google:

    “Oprah Gavin Debecker you tube”

    To watch their video on listening to your gut. DO NOT WEAVER FROM YOUR GUT INSTINCT WITH THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS. You have a very very very strong gut instinct to keep listening to it!!

    Keep yourself busy so that you dont think about these two during your summer break. If you keep thinking about them it will lead to a habit. And this is what sociopaths want. So be mindful to think of other things & to read other things i.e. hobbies or your interest.

    Take care 💜

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Jan7.
  • #46325

    claudette
    Participant

    Jan7 thank you so much for your reply! You gave me so much strength…I tried to get me some sleep the last 2-3 days but I hardly managed to. Either I wake up stressed in the middle of the night either I wake up too early, cannot sleep again and feel exhausted every day. I am also scared that my cellphone is going to ring at any time and it will be one of them.I cannot breathe properly.
    I tried to find an edocrinologist but this week she’s on vacation, I have to wait until the next.
    I haven’t checked my laptop because I don’t have the money but I’m keeping it closed and I’m not using it. I don’t know what he has put in there but one friend told me “if he didn’t pup tnaything in your cellphone then possibly he didn’t put to your laptop either”. It makes sense but I won’t use it until I get the money to check or replace it.
    I agree with you that this guy seems to be very high on the sociopath scale of manipulation & coercion. I also think your guess that “he has sucked many many people into this con game by using his wife as the front person to do the dirty work” couldn’t be more right. At least that is what they did to me!!!Was I their first and only victim? I don’t think so. They are almost 50 years old and they’ve been together for nearly 20 years.
    Probably they would ask to borrow money from me. I don’t know if I would have lent them. I mean, I’m not rich but if I waw ever going to lend money, it could be to somebody who really needs it not to somebody who buys jewellery, food in restaurants, goes vacation etc.
    I’ve already thought that they wanted sex from me. My brother thinks that the rape scenario was very likely. Oh God even the thought of that is horrible, awful, nightmare!!!
    One extra clue on this – I don’t know if you will find it relative or not: Near the ending of April her, I and some students went an educational 3-day trip. We were staying in a hotel, we had separate rooms. The first day, we had one hour’s rest between 4 and 5 pm because the afternoon schedule was full. I told her “I’m going to my room to rest”, she told me “Please come to my room, we’ll sleep together”, I told her “I don’t feel comfortable, I want to sleep by myself”, she kept pressuring me but with a smile:”oh please,please,please,come to my room” I told her “You’re used to sleeping with somebody because you’re married but I’m usde to sleeping alone” and she kept going “Please,please etc.” until (guess what?)I gave in. I didn’t want it but wasn’t scared though: it was a bussiness trip, it was daylight, all the near rooms were full of our students. I went, I didn’t sleep of course because I wasn’t able to, her husband called her on skype to check her room and said that “the hotel was fine”, students were knocking our door all the time until time passed and we had to get ready for the afternoon schedule. And then, right in front of my eyes, she changed her underwear (which was a string by the way) in front of me. Her genitals were covered by her t-shirt but she did this right in front of me even though the bathroom was right there!!!Of course I felt uncomfortable and turned my head the other side. Do you find this Ok; I’m 36 years old and no woman has ever done this in front of me! And I haven’t done it either!!!Do you think she intended to provoke me?or that she didn’t care and it’s just an awful habit of her?
    She’s certainly under his mind control and that’s why I’m afraid of him even though he does not work with us.
    This part of your reply

    Right now please remember you do NOT have to be nice to this woman at work. You just have to be business like at your work place. That is a big difference. You owe this woman NOTHING. So reach the LOW CONTACT RULE and follow it. This means you do NOT talk to her. You avoid her. If she wants to have a conversation with you, simply say I’m busy now. Keep it simple when addressing her if she attempts to talk with you. Do NOT talk to her alone. Dont get sucked back into their con game.

    helped me tremendously!!! Just one question on this: Somebody suggested that if she calls me I should send an sms like “I cannot talk, send an sms or an email if it is something bussiness related” so as to prove that I was available for job issues. She already told the supervisor higher than her that she couldn’t reach me on a Saturday for a job issue (this was a lie, there wasn’t any job issue, she wanted to hoover me). Do you find this sms a good idea or does it contradict with the no contact rule at not working hours??What do you think on this?

    If she is under her husbands brain washing she will be reporting back to him and he will be giving her ways to manipulate you. So just simply walk away from her. Do NOT get in an argument with her. Just say you are business & walk away.

    That is what she did with him. I saw it with my eyes, heard it with my ears. She was reporting back to him everything and he told her what to do… I’m sure he has already given her an awful plan about me. When you say “Just say you are business” what do you mean? (sorry english isn’t my native) to tell her “I’m here in order to work,I don’t talk about anything except bussiness” or “you’re my boss not my friend”?

    Just like a kid in the grocery store screaming for cookies & the parents just give in out of embarrassment or being tired.

    This is it. That’s why I ended up giving them my cellphone and my laptop.

    I bought already the Gift of Fear,thank you so much!
    Your last advice:

    Keep yourself busy so that you dont think about these two during your summer break. If you keep thinking about them it will lead to a habit. And this is what sociopaths want. So be mindful to think of other things & to read other things i.e. hobbies or your interest.

    was marvellous. I’m already trying but obsessive thoughts come uninvited to my mind! Oh God I want my peace of mind back!!!
    Thank you for everything Jan7. God bless you.

  • #46330

    Jan7
    Participant

    Claudette, you’re so welcome. I’m so sorry that you are dealing with these two nightmare individuals.

    Steven Hassan cult & domestic abuse expert & author of Freedom of Mind book (bite model that I posted) says the most likely time to get sucked into a cult or domestic abusive relationship is when you have a life change, such as, a new job (like you & me), a death in the family, empty nest, relationship break up, divorce, move to a new town etc. Why this time? because we simply let our guard down to deal with the new change.

    You were no doubt a target instantly with these two individuals. You were new to the school and this woman moved right into your personal space for what ever her & her sociopathic husband agenda is, because she knew your guard would be down.

    I am so glad that you opened up to your brother (Great decision!!) and also researched answers, had the courage to post & now asking lots of questions. Your mindset is very strong & so is your gut instinct.

    Remember sociopaths want to isolate their target victims right from the get go. So your gut instinct to open up to your brother was excellent!!

    Know that sociopaths bank on good people not saying a thing to anyone. So these steps you are making are amazing steps out of this crazy situation! I’m also glad that your brother is speaking the truth and clearly has your back & concern for you. What a blessing to have him as a caring protective brother!!

    Glad you called the doctor. The stress you are under sadly is very normal when dealing with a sociopath. They mess with our minds intentionally and our adrenal glands in response send out strong alarms (release of cortisol & adrenaline) to let us know of the dangerous situation we are in. Your alarm system is working correctly. Now you just need to calm it down so that you can sleep correctly again & have peace of mind again.

    You State:

    One extra clue on this – I don’t know if you will find it relative or not: Near the ending of April her, I and some students went an educational 3-day trip. We were staying in a hotel, we had separate rooms. The first day, we had one hour’s rest between 4 and 5 pm because the afternoon schedule was full. I told her “I’m going to my room to rest”, she told me “Please come to my room, we’ll sleep together”, I told her “I don’t feel comfortable, I want to sleep by myself”, she kept pressuring me but with a smile:”oh

    THIS IS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOR FROM A CO WORKER!! She is clearly stepping over boundaries as your co worker and your supervisor. In this day & age you do not do these types of things with a person you are supervising at work!! This is absolutely relevant to their sociopathic behavior.

    She continued to push your personal boundaries over & over to get what she wants, despite you clearly & voice fully say NO! What are these two doing with the children she is suppose to be watching over & safe guarding. These two are clearly dangerous to you, and all those at the school.

    My advise to you is with the help of your brother (as a sounding board)

    First go to the doctors next week tell the doctor what is going on (witness) and the core of the stress & anxiety that you are dealing with = these two crazy sociopathic people.

    Then once you have your health back on track (you need your jobs health insurance now)

    1) during this time off from school go to your countries Employment office & look for PLAN B back up job (back up plan). Look on line for jobs even if it’s say a temporary witress job etc.

    2) Write out points that this woman has done & said to you…everything that you posted above. And then go to your Schools Principle for a meeting and tell them that you are a hard worker, care about your job etc etc but you can no longer have this woman as your supervisor as she is crossing all your personal boundaries and & that you are concerned for not only your well being but also all the young students at the school.

    3) give then a print out of your talking points of what this woman has done to cross your personal boundaries

    4) after the meeting send in email to the Principle & CC the same email who ever else was at the meeting.

    Please keep in mind that Sociopaths use sociopath smear campaign & also sociopath triangulation (look these up here at LF & on the net) against any and all targets so that if the target starts to talk badly about the sociopath the sociopath has already told lies (like in your case).

    It takes a village to expose a sociopath. SO dont do this alone. But have a back up plan b for financial reasons incase this school lets you out of your contract. I would hate for you to not have a back up financial plan before you talk to the principle and you cant pay your rent, car, food bills.

    Think this thru with your brothers help, but you need to take steps to get this woman out of your life. She & her husband are dangerous to your health, well being & mind set. Clearly they are taking a toll on your health right now.

    Remember sociopath are always 10 steps ahead of good people so this is why you must think this all thru carefully with the help of your brother.

    Sending you huge hugs hon!! 💜💜💜

    Take care. 🌺💜🌺

    Look up: Sociopath Low contract rule. This rule is for say child custody issues & having to work with one of these evil people.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by  Jan7.
  • #46373

    claudette
    Participant

    Jan7, thank you for your reply! Yes, my guard was down when they began to approach me not only because of being new in town, school,divorced but also because at that time I happened to be a target of workplace bullying by a colleague (by the way this colleague isn’t working in that school any more). They began to offer me their support during this period I was bullied so…it isn’t so weird that my defenses were weak at that time…
    I wish I could believe that my mindset is strong as you say but…I married a sociopath, I should have recognised some signs much earlier…
    I’m afraid in anticipation of the smear campaign etc. I’m sure she’s going to do with me…I haven’t relaxed at all, not a single day during summer…I ordered some good books on boundaries and I am waiting for them…

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