By | July 23, 2007 142 Comments

3 steps to leave a sociopath and start healing

It’s easy to fall asleep at the wheel on the road of life. To lose consciousness under the seeming weight of sorrows, trials and tribulations pounding you into the dirt. To forget to open your eyes to the wonders passing by. Everyday living has a numbing effect on reality. However, if you’re in relationship with someone who resembles the label of a sociopath, psychopath, narcissistic personality disordered or any other disorderly letter of the alphabet, it’s even easier to forget who you are and where you’re going. Staying awake drifts from your mind as you are drained by the numbing effect of his abuse. The deeper your drift, the further waking up races from possibility.

When we’re in an abusive relationship, we’ll do a lot to avoid waking up, including sleep walking our way through each passing day. But, sleep walking can be deadly. One day can lead to one year which can roll into a decade. Decades pass and you wind up living life on the edge of consciousness, one eye on the door waiting to see what comes in. The other eye is searching for an exit sign, hoping for an opening where it’s the right time, right day, right place to step away, step free, get going away from his abuse. If you are in a relationship where your reasons for staying revolve around slamming doors, fear rising and freedom vanishing, it’s time to wake up and ask yourself, What am I doing?

Yes, it’s hard to leave. Yes, there are 101 reasons why you can’t do it. But, whether you do it today, or do it in a year, the children who keep you there, the financial stress that holds you back, the fear that keeps you shaking, will still be there. Excuses endure. An abuser endures too.

An abuser will do everything he can to make you believe it’s all your fault. He’ll do whatever it takes to convince you that you cannot leave him. Don’t believe him. He’s lying. It’s imperative you face the truth. Prince charming has turned into the prince of darkness. It isn’t some ‘other guy’ hitting you. It’s him. The man you fell in love with. The one who promised to love you ’til death do us part.’ He just forgot to mention, he took the ‘death part’ really seriously. Remember, you didn’t create the monster raging in front of your eyes. And you are powerless to stop him being who he is. Your power lives in stopping his abuse in your life by stepping away from the source of your pain. His abuse.

To end abuse, you must wake-up to its reality

Waking up from abuse isn’t easy. But then, sleep-walking through life is no way to live free of abuse.

Being in an abusive relationship isn’t easy, either, nor is leaving. This isn’t about what’s easy. It’s about what is right. For you. For your children. For your future. It would be nice to keep believing that he has all your answers. It’s just not true. Nobody, regardless of what the abuser says, has your answers. You do. Nobody has the right to tell you where to go, when to go, where to sit, what to wear, what to say. Nobody has the right to tell you who you are. Abusers assume the right and we assume they’re right under the weight of their abuse.

Facing the truth that we have the power to change the abuse in our life, but not the abuser, can be terrifying. It puts us at the centre of our existence, and after having lived so long on the periphery of our lives, it’s frightening to wake-up and claim centre stage. Yet, it’s imperative that we wake up to the truth. It could be a decision between life and death.

Wake-up and make a difference in your life

There is a way to wake-up from the nightmare of abuse and live the life of your dreams. Here are some steps you can take to make a difference in your own life and let go of the difference abuse is making in keeping you stuck in the living nightmare of someone else’s crazy-making antics.

Step 1 No More Lies

Stop and really listen to yourself. Are you afraid? Are you repeating all the bad things he says about you again and again in your head? Are you frightened of speaking up, speaking out, standing up for yourself? If you answered yes, then it’s time to quit lying to yourself and everyone else. What he’s doing is wrong. It isn’t normal. Quit trying to justify his bad behaviour. Quit making you the reason he hits you. You’re not. Quit being the victim of his abuse. When the voices of self-doubt rise up, remind yourself, those are his words speaking, not my truth. Find your own truth. Let go of his lies.

Recently I was working with a woman who had finally left an abusive marriage after 16 years. A single mother of four children, two of them with serious health issues, she struggled with the responsibility of accepting, in staying for those 16 years, she had made choices that affected her life and her children’s lives. But I was a victim, she said.

I’m with Gavin de Becker (The Gift of Fear). The first time someone hits me, I’m a victim. The second time, I’ve made a choice to be there. With that first hit he gave me a clear indication of all that he was capable of. In staying, I chose to ignore the warning. I chose to make a decision based on escalating anger, behaviours that I knew were out of whack with ”˜normal’. Behaviours that scared me. I stayed because I was too afraid to leave.

The woman and I talked about her fears of being accountable in having chosen to stay.

“But that means I asked for it,” she said.

“No.” I replied. “It means you made a choice to believe the unbelievable after he hit you once. You chose to believe, he’d never do it again, thus making it acceptable he’d done it once. At no time, however, does it mean you deserved it. No one deserves abuse. No one deserves to be hit or screamed at or called names. That behaviour is not about who we are, it’s about who they are and what we’re willing to accept. You never deserved to be hit, and you never asked for it. You chose to stay. When we accept responsibility for our choices, we empower ourselves to make different choices.”

That is the gift and power of no more lies. We quit denying our role in staying and applaud ourselves by having the courage to leave.

Step 2 Let go of someday thinking and never say never

Let go of someday thinking and never say never. There is no such time as someday and never never happens. Listen to what you’re saying. Do you think in someday terms? Do you say to yourself, “Someday I’m just going to get up, pick up the kids and walk out of here. I don’t care if I have a penny to my name, if I don’t have a job. I don’t care what the neighbours think or what he says, someday I’m not going to take this anymore.”

A woman I worked with decided one day that she had had enough. Eleven years into the relationship she woke up one morning and realized, he was never going to change. He liked things just the way they were. She packed up her twins, ran to a shelter and has never looked back.

Three years later she says, “I didn’t have any money when I was with him and I didn’t have any money when I left. Nothing was different the day I packed up except I let go of thinking about someday and did it now. My life is way better than it ever was with him. I still don’t have much money, but I’m not being abused. And without his angry outbursts and unpredictable behaviour, I am able to make plans, go back to school, get a job, take care of my twins. I have way more energy and I know I’m going to be okay. I didn’t know that when I was with him.”

He isn’t going to change. He doesn’t have to. And all the wishful thinking in the world will not make it happen someday.

Give it up. Let it go. Shake it out and quit planning on someday. Start planning on the date when you get free. Set a date. A timeline. A target. Plan. If you fear for your life in leaving, don’t tell him anything about your plans. Just do it. There is no such time as someday and never never happens.

Step 3: Find help

We suffer abuse alone — except for our children of course. They’re part of it too but we try not to think of that very often when we’re rationalizing staying for their sake. Mostly, however, we suffer abuse alone, especially in our heads.

We repeat again and again what he said, what he did, what we didn’t do. We talk about if only I had”¦ We think about, one day, maybe. And then we suffer silently in our heads.

To leave, you need help. Get it. Don’t make excuses. Don’t say, but he’ll find out. He’ll know I’m up to something. Be as secretive and cautious as you must, but get help.

After I was released from the living hell I endured for 4 years 9 months with the abusive man who went to jail and is no longer in my life, I realized, he knew I wouldn’t lie to him. He knew I couldn’t lie to him. I believed he was omnipotent. I believed he knew everything I did and said.

He made sure to paint the picture in such a way, I believed he did. Sometimes, he’d phone and ask, “Is there something you need to tell me?”

“I love you,” I’d quickly reply.

“I’m serious. Is there something you need to tell me?”

I’d rack my brain. “No.”

“Are you sure?”

“Yes,” my voice more hesitant.

“You know I hate liars. You know I need to trust you completely.”

I’d pause and look back over my day frantically searching for a transgression. Oh no! I’d had lunch with a male friend from work. How did he know? Quietly, I’d tell him the truth. And then I’d apologize. I’d hang up and wonder, how did he know?

He didn’t. He was just really good at making me feel guilty for doing nothing wrong.

I needed help. I never looked for it. Every time I thought about leaving, of contacting someone for help, I’d remind myself of all the lies he’d told me. My phones were tapped. Men were listening in. Watching me. Tailing me. Taking pictures of me unawares. I’d remember the times he phoned and told me he liked the dress I was wearing that day. How did he know? I hadn’t told him and hadn’t seen him. He didn’t have to see me. He didn’t have to know the actual dress. As long as he kept me guessing, I’d never wake up to the realization he’d never actually described the dress I was wearing, just said he’d liked it.

I never went for help. Never reached out. Never asked. I almost died. And through it all, I never gave up my magical thinking that one day, someone, somewhere would make it all stop. Make it all go away. Make him love me again. Make him be Prince Charming again. Make me okay. Maybe even, make him forgive me for having caused so much trouble in his life.

It never happened. I knew what was happening to me was wrong, but I could never face the truth. In running from the truth, I ran into his lies and believed I was the cause of his bad behaviour. I was just the recipient. I was never responsible for his lies. Just my own when I quit believing the truth of what was happening to me, and bought into the lies he told me. His bad behaviour could never stop as long as I stayed with him.

Ask for help. Get informed. Google ”˜how to leave an abusive relationship’. There’s lots of ideas and help online. Make sure you look up what to do to erase your Internet footprints. Make sure you keep yourself safe. And DO IT. You have to take the steps to get free. No one else can do it for you.

Leaving him isn’t easy. Healing takes time, but healing cannot begin until you get free. Whether you do it today, tomorrow or five years down the road, healing will always take time, but it can’t begin until that moment in time when you close the door behind you and leave him and his abuse in the past.

Do it and start healing.

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I followed a cycle of picking men that were abusive to myself. The Don Juan of Con, supposedly was the one that broke the cycle. However, he did not, he continued it. He had made me feel like I was the sociopath, even though he continued to call me from his last victim’s house, right up to after he married her. The reason, I could blow his world apart, his con. I tried when I found out he wasn’t who he was. His sister tried to convince the authorities, and I even faxed dozens and dozens of documentation. He ‘showed’ proof that he was not that person. The detectives had their hands tied, they couldn’t arrest him for anything until he broke the law. In the meantime, I had from 2000-2005 wrestled with trying to find closure, and feeling that I would never gain a healthy sense of myself. His threats and his accusations against me devastated me. He took advantage of me, emotionally and physically too. He is a classic abuser, and I see that I didn’t break the cycle. It took me reuniting with an old friend from high school, that women do not have to be abused to be loved, that to love a woman shows respect, honesty, and consideration. It is ok to be loved gently, respectfully, and honestly. I started to gain my sense of worth back, knowing that my sociopath ex was attempting to destroy me because he felt threatened by the real essence of me. I have the ability to stop him, and though it is true that police officers sometimes dismiss the fraud that happened to you, it isn’t the end of the world. You can rebuild your life, and you can do it without a man/woman in it. This is your healing time, you gain a sense of accomplishment in your achievements. However small they may seem they are accomplishments. Starting over in a new life is never easy. I stared at homelessness too many times because of an abusive man, but this time, I was determined to make a go of it by myself. He couldn’t take away my career, my integrity, but what he tried to do is destroy it. When I decided to NOT allow him to have the power over me, is when I began to heal. I discovered that there are good people out in the world that are genuine, and that I am capable of being somebody. I am in control of myself, and only I am responsible for my own happiness. It takes time to heal, and it is obtainable. Every victim of abuse is a valuable person in her/his right. You have the ability to raise above it. Getting through one day at a time is healing, and dealing with issues of being told you are not good enough, or you are selfish, etc. is hard. You can become a person of strength, because you have survived the travesty of not being loved honestly, and correctly. You can love yourself, and become the person you are, and not the person the abuser claims you are.


“Prince charming has turned into the prince of darkness.”

Boy, does that hit the nail on the head. I used to call him “my Knight in Rusty Armor.” since we met and courted at a Renaissance event.

Yes, I kept thinking “someday”. Not that he would change, because I couldn’t even see that he was the problem. Oh sure, some of his behaviors were kind of weird, but he didn’t hit me or verbally abuse me, and when you love someone you trust them completely, right?

Never again. If I do ever get interested in a man again, which I doubt, I am going to be very upfront with him that I WILL be checking if what he says is true. He’s welcome to do the same to me. I’m changing “love is complete trust” to “love is having nothing to hide.”


Yes, movingon, I agree 110%. If I ever as much as think of having another man enter my life, they will have to prove them selves to me first. And I would hope they think enough of themselves to do the same. It will take time and the challenge will be to not allow your self to get emotionally overthrown in the meantime, a habit I have always done in the past.

Don’t close the door, just rethink the process, test the water before jumping in.

I never had an intimate relationship with my narcissist- just talk and inferences. I was used to listen for months.

I was looking for a friend- really affirmation and love- and ended up just used. I refused the physical part- we’re married–I just wanted a friend-in the end he used my ear like a condom.

To move on- I think of the juvenile behavior I forgave or politely ignored. They are all fools. And in the end I can recall his cruelty in a therapeutic way, he once hissed out of the blue:you’re a sociopath

uh,huh yeah- what a projectionist- he should work at the amc

I don’t know if I’m on the right blog, but I am new to this. I need help and can’t figure out how to get it. It’s for my mother. She is 77 yrs. old and is the victim of a financial predator. We have known him since 1975. My sister just diet on Mother’s Day (5/13/07). She left my mother as the sole beneficiary to a life insurance policy worth a large sum of money. My mother’s boyfriend has come and gone in her life in correlation with the amount of money she has had. When she has money, he sticks like glue. When he is finished draining her, he leaves. Well, he found out about the insurance policy and now he is by her side. After my sister passed away, but before he found out about the money, he was not there for my mom. During that time, mom was hurt and angry. She turned over to me much documentation of the financial abuse. I have gone to CRIS senior services, but they won’t do anything. They say she has to want to prosecute him. I went to the police and the State’s Attorney. They need documentation from a Psychiatrist that says mom is uncapable to handling her finances before they will do anything. My mom’s boyfriend has lied to my mom to the point that she will not trust me. She thinks I am just getting into her business. I have seen my mom in poverty to the point that she lived in a roach infested home without running water for a period of months. She even cooked on a hotplate for a year because he conned her out of her stove. I have so much documentation but no one will help. I feel like I’m running into a brick wall every time I turn around. I wrote to Oprah thinking she could help, but got no response. I am at my wits end. I have a job, a family, and this is taking it’s toll on me emotionally and mentally. At one point, when mom’s boyfriend was out of town, she went with me to an attorney. She willingly and freely went before the court to allow me to be her guardian of her estate. This was to be temporary until we were able to go back to court and finalize it. Now, with him by his side, she went back to court is now fighting it. It may be that we can get a bank to be her guardian of her estate. However, this does not solve the problem of her boyfriend continuing to badmouth my brother and I and keep her from us. We don’t want her money, we just want our mother. I believe she is bipolar, but I’m sure she will never go to a psychiatrist. She now does not trust me. It was court odered that she get a mental health assessment, but if she allows to have a bank be her guardian, then the judge may say she no longer needs the mental health assessment. Is there anyone who has dealt with anything like this and could provide some direction? Please-I don’t know what to do. All advice would be greatly appreciated.


Helpme, what you are saying reminded me of a story I read in our local New Times in Phoenix. The title is “Dying for Love”
Here is the link. If the link doesn’t work, you can go to New Times, Phoenix and do a search for the story which came out in 2003. I don’t want to scare you even more than you are, but it is serious. Maybe with other family members, together, you can all make her see what is going on. But I also realize people do not see what they do not want to see. Being a sociopath is not a crime and even after they have committed a crime, they often get away with it. Justice is not cheap.


It is imperative that we not just leave the socio (as hard as that is) but heal so we do not go back. I made a mistake by reconnecting to my socio after a 4 month period of time of no contact. He had moved out of state, and on to his next victim. I felt fine for a few months and then the pain and loneliness kicked in and I called. And he was right there to take my call and tell me everything I wanted to hear, even put his girlfriend on hold while we talked. He said he didn’t think anything was wrong with us keeping in touch (even though he was doing this behind his current girlfriend’s back).

My story is a bit different because the person I was involved with had a lust/sex addiction, was bipolar, anger issues and was abusive. The sexual addiction was played out in his need for me and control of me. He used his desire to manipulate me and brainwash me. He said he never had a physical relationship with any woman they way it was with me. He said to me constantly, “We are hot for each other.” (No, I really wasn’t. I knew something wasn’t right..) He desired me constantly, loving everything about me. Never had I felt so desired and accepted, exactly as I was. He had a thing for me, and said it was the strongest desire he had ever known.

After three months I noticed he’s looking at other women. I caught on he had lust issues. But he swore he was faithful because his fiancee cheated on him twice. He left her. Said he could never hurt someone the way he had been hurt. Within a year, he’s talking to a girl right in front of me. I’m like, what is he going to do, pick someone up right in front of me? He says he is just friendly and he is faithful to me. This behavior went on for over a year. He told me I was insecure and crazy and it was all in my mind; it was not happening. I played the part of being there for him because he needed me sexually. After awhile, I begin to think we had a sexual addiction for each other. We didn’t. (As a matter of fact, he had a sexual dysfunction.) It was a very strong part of the relationship, and after he moved away, he would call and tell me he couldn’t get over me, he couldn’t stop. Continually he lead me on, keeping me right where he wanted me. He suggested I move in with him but he knew I wouldn’t do that. So he started to seek out the next victim because I couldn’t supply his need 100% of the time. I was too far away.

I wasn’t nuts, just confused. I had no intention of supporting him or moving to be with him. He learned early on he would get no money from me. I was angry that he rarely took me out and spent money. He never had it. Always some excuse. But he always had $$ to do what he wanted to do, i.e. hobbies, trips, etc.

I was a difficult victim because I argued. I intersected truth into his world of deceit and delusion. He would explode into rage, beat me and tell me it was my fault because I knew he had an anger problem. Said it was my fault that I accused him of looking at other women. He later said, “I can’t manage you.” Meaning: You are not worth the trouble of fighting to get what I want—other women are easier. Unfortunately his lust addiction for me kept him glued to me. He created a vacuum in my soul because I had never been in a realtionship where a man was out of his mind for me in that way. He had me believe no one had the type of intimacy we did. So we were locked into this abusive craziness. I believe God intervened and provided a job for him hundreds of miles away. For several months after his move, he flew back and forth frantically to see me because of his sexual urges, all the while telling me how much he loved me and he couldn’t go very long without me. As time progressed, the visits became fewer, arguing increased, and he learned to take his addiction elsewhere. He went to porn video places and watched video in booths and masterbated. One time he called me from a booth and described what he was watching. One time he heard his next door neighbor having sex and again, he was back to the porn booth. He actually told me how he went to a pool bar and met a girl who gave him oral sex and how he called her for three days because he wanted a girlfriend. She never returned his phone calls. Smart, drunk girl!

As horrified as I was in this and knowing full well he had an addiction and worsening by the moment, I felt sorry for him. I felt the loss of his need for me. I continued to get sucked in to the manipulations. He said he acted out all of this because I wasn’t here for him. I felt like I started to believe it.

Today, he is with his current victim. She is passive, and gives him much control. She drives 5 hrs. south to stay with him for days on end, has no life and he loves it. She doesn’t argue, doesn’t question, and probably condones him lusting after other girls in her presence. He is happy. Nobody is giving him truth about his behavior. In just two months she is looking for work in his town, giving up her life and family. I pity this girl for what lies ahead for her.

As with all of these guys, the deception is knee deep. When I reconnected with him he told me that he thinks about me when he’s having sex with her, and has to do that to be able to orgasm. Said he still fantasizes about me all the time. When I asked if he loved her or planned to marry her he said no. I told him what he was doing was wrong. He responded coldly that if she moved there, she might meet somebody else. Still, continued manipulation. Is willing to speak to me on the side, behind his girlfriend’s back while she’s somewhere else.

I had to break away again. Got more information than I wanted and was devastated again. It only painfully showed me that he probably did the same thing behind my back when we were together. He swears he didn’t; I was all that he wanted. I do feel sorry for this girl. I’m sure she loves him and believes that he loves her. Soon enough, she will witness his deception, his violence and horrible rageful anger. Then he will blame her and she will get sucked into the madness. One thing I can tell you about sociopaths: They take you to the bottom, destroy you and smile and tell you they love you all the way. Scary.

Sorry for my rambling. This is my first blog. Getting ack to my main point—get healing to stay away for good. Otherwise you may go back for a another spoonful of pain, perhaps more painful than you’ve had before.


Hello, I wasn’t sure where to post this question but this thought has been nagging at me. Recently I found my ex N/S’s girlfriend’s photo on the internet.. it was a full body photo and she doesn’t look anything like I imagined! She was heavier than he described and not nearly as good looking as he said.. interesting!

Anyway, he cheated on her several times (with me) and god knows how many times with others, yet she still hangs in. She’s considerably younger than he is and somewhat naive from what I have gathered. I don’t believe she trusts him.. apparently she showed up in the middle of the night a few times to see if he was with someone else.

He has nothing to do with her child or her family.. but she puts up with this treatment. He also controls when she can see him and he doesn’t go to her house because he doesn’t like the neighborhood.

Lately I have this compulsive urge to send her an anonymous message via email or one of the social networking sites to warn her about him but don’t want it to be traceable to me.

Is this something I should follow through on or should I forget the idea? She is young and has her whole life ahead of her and is wasting time with him because he will never marry her or make a real commitment.

Now that I have been out of contact with him, it’s strange how suddenly I want to act on this! What should I do?



Don’t bother……it won’t be ‘heard’ as you intend it, and it will only cause you pain with her potential ‘reaction’.

It tends to be only a ‘seed’ planted, of which is not germinated or nutured.

We all understand this feeling and urge, but it’s time you could be spending on YOU and YOUR healing.

It opens up a ‘can of worms’, that tends to bring with it lot’s of other maggots that eat at you……..

The reality is…….we all thought…..we were the ‘one’…..he will love me ‘better’, more yadayada…..and ‘our’ relationshiop is ‘different’ than yours was…….

Your intentions are good….your heart is golden……but spend it on someone who will be sure to listen…….


I have really been in that compulsive edgy jumpy place where I wanted to ACT on my instincts….I hadn’t even listened to my instincts when the red flags waved, I brushed them off and resolved to be ‘positive’ and give my “love” the benefit of the doubt…then when the flood gates opened with all the evidence of his lies, and the betrayal…it’s like my instincts went ballistic and I had the detective like antennae out, I was following him on line and feeling like setting him up..I had the exact same dilemma as you…the reason I ended up not doing anything was this:

The P might benefit from me going after him. He might enjoy the importance I was elevating him to in his twisted head…it certainly would make him smile and get his blood running…

The women he abused since me are many…they all seemed to twig it quicker than I ever did!! there is a peculiar lesson to be learned with these monsters and maybe sometimes it’s not for us to intervene IF it means turning on his rage and getting hurt or even killed…Even if you save several women…he will continue to get more. That is what they do and there is always a woman who wants a loving man and THAT is what he poses as… so it’s out of your control.

If you have back up..I mean LOADS of support from family and a strong network of help then you could perhaps do something like expose him for what he is, and try and warn his girlfriend…but YOU must come first at the end of the day, and that means SAFE

The P wanted me to see his “next girlfriend” and wanted to post me an e-mail…he had this sick twisted urge to torture me apparently..and it was another message…saying I dont care about you or any woman..I get them when and where I want…I use them and then find another…smirk smirk….this is ABUSE

No Contact is the most powerful way to break the abusive cycle that tends to want to ACT out in revenge, exposure, wanting to name and shame etc and because these people are more dead than alive they suck up the energy generated and thrive…

The best revenge is to stem the flow of energy flowing out to this situation, and re claim it for yourself….yep it means feeling helpless over the P…and surrendering to a power greater than yourself…tears and Grief will follow…and that’s a sign you are back on track….this is just one opinion out of many…so keep reading and sensing what the right action is FOR YOU!!

keep talking…love and light x


I think the lessons we gain from overcoming that ‘edgy’ ‘jumpy’ place where we have an overwhelming urge to act ‘out’ towards the spath (in an unhealty manner) is absolutley invaluable! For me it taught patience. Something I lacked prior.
Patience is one of the assets I have called on in many many situations I wanted to go ballistic on the spath……patience taught me…..i know better- it won’t serve me in the end.

It’s a real hard lesson….and I have a gf who has learned it too……during her toxic divorce…..and I see me in her in trying times…..and it also reminds me of how we ‘got here’…..gaining patience.

I learned that I NEVER act on my knee jerk or instant emotion and most nothing requires immediate reactions……….I always think, wait, ponder and 99.9% of the time…..NOT acting is the best resource…..and this take patience to go through the process of thinking, waiting and pondering… buys you time…..and you change your path…..

The more we don’t act or respond…..and have patience, the more distance we create between us and the spath……

Spaths expect us to react…..and they know just how to respond to their expectations of us, when we fall into that trap……..’shake it up’…..and don’t react……it’s throws em off balance and creates a distance we NEED from them…..

NC is key! This requires patience and self control!


What an awesome article!!!!!!! Every step is so perfectly explained, and each step is non-negotiable.

One of the hardest things for me to accept was that I had to take ownership of my choices – my choice in the ex spath partner, my choice to remain when the obvious was glaring me in the eye, and the choice to “excuse” or rationalize the abuser’s behaviors. THAT was the ugliest part of getting out and getting onto my healing path.

SO many people, including family members, would say, “But, what about the children?” This, up until the point that I began formulating my exit strategy, was the one thing that I clung to: maybe, he’ll change for the children’s sakes, this time. No, no, and NO. An abuser does not change. An abuser typically does not acknowledge the damage that they inflict. And, I have to wonder if abusers aren’t all a type of sociopath, themselves.

NO CONTACT is the only way for me to remain on the healing path. It is an emotional impulse for me to want to “out” the sociopath or “get even.” Yeah, I want everyone to know what these people have done, but to react to that impulse would only bring me down to THEIR level – rumor, badmouthing, mudslinging, etc. What this boils down to is that I am not responsible for educating the world. The people who are currently involved with the spaths that I knew will have to find out on their own. Ranting and raving about what they’ve done to me will only make me look like a complete lunatic. I’ve had enough of them – I just need to walk away, flip them the proverbial bird, and get on with my life.

EB, you explained it very clearly, and it IS a knee-jerk impulse. We have been harmed by these people, and indulging in that impulse would only reiterate why I chose a spath for a friend, business partner, or spouse: I did not exercise self-control in tending to my boundaries. I was flattered by their attention, romantic or otherwise, and did not look further into their motives or their modus operandii.

Thank you so much for this excellent article! Brightest blessings!

Ox Drover

I looked at this article, which was written about the time, or a little before I found LF—and I can picture myself sitting there at the lake in my RV, reading and reading and weeping as I read. Mourning the loss of my home and my illusions…

Louise this is THE best description I have seen of what deBecker was trying to say and didn’t say nearly as well as you…..we are responsible for OUR choices to stay after the abuse starts.

It’s odd, or funny, I’m not sure which, but one of the ways I have found to tell a PSEUDO-victim from a real victim is that a psychopath masking as a VICTIM will never NEVER NEVER take responsibility for the choice to stay with the abuser.

Of course in a co-abuser relationship, like gasoline and fire, they set one another off into fearful heats that can consume everything around them. The “loser” of course pretends to be a victim of a psychopath and puts on the “victim mask” but for some reason they will never (at least I have never seen one do so) ADMIT that their OWN CHOICES to stay around AFTER the abuse became apparent were theirs. (there ARE cases where the abuse was NOT apparent to one party, where the psychopath was successfully SNEAKING behind the victim’s back, and those victims had no way of knowing what was going on.)

The PSEUDO-victims though will say “Oh, there was NO WAY I could have known he would beat me again” or “I had kids and couldn’t leave” or some other excuse, but never owning their own choice to stay and stay and stay…or better yet, detailing the nasty things they did to get back at him, “which he of course richly deserved, and anyway, anyone would have gotten back at him with justification”….and so on. WHAT TRIPE! (read tongue in cheek here folks!)

EB, you are SOOOOO RIGHT! Everytime I have acted out of impulse it was the WRONG thing to do!


Thanks for all the support and affirmations about staying in the No Contact zone. This time I am proud of myself for not wanting to contact him and it’s been nearly two months. In the past I would usually cave after a while. He has not attempted to contact me, either, because he was caught in some embarrassing lies which peeled back the facade and showed his true character – or lack thereof. As with many spaths, he hides when exposed.

The strong urge to contact his current girlfriend has passed after thinking about it all week and realizing that it won’t benefit ME in any way. The other posters here are right that the women he is involved with have to find out for themselves. It is very natural to wonder at times if the other woman is getting the relationship I never had with him, but his history shows that could not be the case. I know enough about their relationship to know she will never be able to trust him. And being with someone you don’t trust is a torturous existence. Now I have to close the door on the wondering and release my concerns to the universe!!

Blessings to you all on the long road to recovery and reclaiming your own voice.

Ox Drover

Dear Mo152,

Congratulations on the NC—the longer you are NC the easier it will get and I think you are right about the other woman, he will be exactly with her just as much a creep as he was with you, and the next and the next. It is impossible for them to have an honest relationship, actually an honest ANYTHING.

Keep on reading and learning though, as much as we can learn about them (and the red flags) and also ourselves, the safer we will be in the future!


Mo152—I find that if and when the urge comes up to either contact him or try to dig a little deeper into HIS life, I treat it like I do a purchase I might want to make. Leave the store, go home, think about it, get involved in something else, time passes and the realization hits me that I never really needed it, it was just an impulse thing. I am better off without it and the money will be better spent elsewhere.
I can’t and won’t say that I never want to contact him, but the days of NC are like the days of sobriety. One day of relapse and you start back at Day One.
One step forward and no steps back.

Frank Lee Speaking

I do often wonder how the No Contact thing affects the sociopath? Do they have a short moment of rage and frustration? I have not seen anything on line which talks about this. I suspect they don’t care and just move on to their next scam.


Frank Lee, I’m sure it irks them to no end. Especially since they are in need to control everyone and everything.

Therefore, they did NOT initiate nor approve of the NO CONTACT rule … another did.

I can imagine they do the Tazmanian spin, spurting and gurgling as they have their temper tantrum meltdown until they convince the person that they were wrong to do such a thing to them, them, them.

kim frederick

I agree. I think it is the ultimate betrayal, as far as they are concerned. That’s why we are most in danger of being victims of domestic violence when we try to leave…It means they’ve lost the power to control us.

Even if they aren’t violent they still like the ego rush of knowing they can contol our emotions, and can use and manipulate us via said emotions…they lose alotofego gratification when we cut them off.

It’s really the only power we have, and the one and only way to recover, IMO.


I kind of have mixed feelings on NC on the part of the spath.
I think to a degree that they don’t care, because they are focused on their next seek and destroy mission, but should you give them the opportunity to come back into your life, they sure welcome it with open arms. Granted the relationship will never be the same, but it does hand over control, or at least implied control, to them.

Frank Lee Speaking

Thanks Wini – that made me feel really good!


But what if the S/P instigated the NC out of a completely paranoid delusion, and he is the one who has discarded you…won’t speak to you…comes face-to-face by accident and looks away as if you aren’t event there…won’t acknowledge that you do, or have ever, existed???

I know, I know, I’m better off without him, but how DOES it feel to treat someone so inhumanely and sleep at night, go about the day? It hurts to be totally deleted without any explanation or any human recognition whatsoever…

Ox Drover

Dear SageeGirl, this is a psychopaths ploy called the “devalue and di.scard” or D & D and it is their version of NC It is to make us feel small and worthless. Sometimes though, they will do this for a long time until they get out of “supply” themselves and then they will shot back up, ready to start over, seemingly forgetting how they treated you in the past.

NC makes them furious because you D&D’d them before theyu had a chance to do it to you I think, either that or they weren’t ready to do it yet and wanted more chances to control you, and without contact there is no control.


Thanks Oxy. It’s still hard to comprehend though. He has now done it three times… I didn’t understand it all until now, but it’s still hard to deal with the feeling that he is acting as if I never existed. Like I meant nothing to him…

Funny, I had a feeling both other times that he had someone else and I told myself that when she got tired of his chit that he would be back. And he was… This time I know better…

Ox Drover

Yea, he treats you like you don’t matter (because you don’t, but it makes you suffer so you will weaken and be there for him when he’s done with the one he’s with now) Wait until he tries to come back and he can’t get aresponse from you. Not even a return phone call. Not even his texts or e mails….because they bounce.

I suggest that you change your number or block his calls, ditto e mails. Make your FB if you have one private so he can’t read it, unfriend him and do not answer any friend requests. And none from anyone you don’t know so he can’t have a person contact you indirectly.

Cut him out of your life. Do not speak to him if he encounters you on the street. If you get into your car and he follows you, drive to the police station and report that he is following you. MAKE A FORMAL REPORT. Keep copies of any e mails or texts or anything because you will need these for a restraining order possibly. Put a peep hole in your door and do not open it if he is on the other side.

Do NOT talk to anyone about him or to anyone who will carry tales and information back tg him.

NO contact, none, zip, zero, nada—and keep on and do not give him ANY response and he will eventually go away. But if you slip and even yell “F&^k off at him, THAT IS CONTACT and you have noticed him and are back as far as HE is concerned to square one. It is must be an ALL out No contact. Good luck.


I’ve been doing that as much as possible…very small town…

The police do know about his reaction to the “stalker”, who just-so-happens to be his ex ex… I noticed that my police officer is FB friends with the co-worker he suspected of doing the stalking since before I came along… Like I said…VERY small town…

I don’t think he would get violent, since he’s already had three strikes and two other run-ins, but that was a long time ago.

We are such polar opposites…but we attracted… So not like me… Yeah, I was LONELY, and like my friend told me, “Lonely people do desperate things.” He noticed that too. Told me I never smiled… He saw me smile a lot after that, but then he hurt me even more… Go figure…


Hi all, need some help/support/advice please.

Spath ex moved to FL in 2007 after long history of threats and some violence to me during marriage and throughout divorce. Threatened to kill himself on my front lawn if the divorce didn’t go his way. He had a shotgun he called a “people killer” which he showed me, etc.

I have been in contact with him all along because going n/c always provoked frightening responses from him, even from FL, and I thought the price to pay—talking to him, listening to him—was an ok trade-off to stay safe. He is not too rational when he feels ignored. (he’s a psychologist, PhD, go figure)

In late June of this year I finally stopped taking his calls—he uses prescription drugs, binges on them, then would call and rant, vent, etc. All this time I had been hoping he would meet a woman in FL and fixate on her and leave me alone. (very mixed feelings about that of course—for her sake) Didn’t happen, though he has tried and not gotten anywhere.

Since June he’s sent me letters, flowers, emails….so many phone calls I unplugged the phone, turned off the answering machine. The letters vary from hateful “you are a cruel selfish bitch” to “you are my soulmate.” All include either pleas or demands that I call him. He has called my daughter and my ex-husband (daughter’s father). I responded to nothing.

Last Wed (Sept 1) I received a 4 page suicide letter and called the FL police—they checked his house and said he wasn’t there, his car wasn’t there. I called all hospitals in the area–nothing.

I called his best friend (lives in IL) who said he’d talked to him a few days before and he was fine, although a bit “hurt” he couldn’t talk to me. Said the ex was planning to move to another place in the same town, so I figured Ok, just more of his usual drama and game playing—the car wouldn’t be at his house because he’d moved that day or the day before. No worries.

The suicide letter said I was the one with my finger on the trigger, that I was the reason he was killing himself. And that I would inherit all his worldly goods and that he hoped that would “teach you some humility.”

Yesterday I received a copy of his will in the mail. Dated April, and I am the beneficiary. This was alarming…I checked his FL town’s newspaper yesterday afternoon online and there was a photo of him and an article saying he is missing and armed, and the police found ammo strewn around his house. He has his very powerful 12 gauge shotgun with him. The article said police found several suicide letters in the house. It gave a description and license plate number of his car. His sister (who lives in IL) reported him missing.

I called the FL police—they have found his car at a local body shop (he was in an accident the Sat before he disappeared) and don’t know where he is—they are thinking he took off walking but I know he didn’t. He wouldn’t just walk off, and carrying a shotgun? No. They are being close-lipped because I am not family, just an ex-wife.

The detective told me this morning they have no evidence he rented a car. I think he may have bought one—he certainly has the money to do so, and a neighbor reported seeing him putting stuff into a car–after the accident. He has no friends in FL, so no one to assist him. He somehow got his hands on a car. I called 3 of the major car national rental places and no record of him.

FL police are going with the “he went off his meds and wandered off” theory. I think that’s what his sister would like to believe as the alternative would be too mean of him—to put her through this. He is her only sibling. He has been missing for 8-9 days now.

Since he hasn’t committed a crime the police can’t get his credit card records, cell phone records, etc. It is not illegal to go missing. He left his computer behind, his laptop. I can access his email and there is no activity since about Aug 26. He really has disappeared.

I called my local police who told me to lock my doors and call 911 if I see him. That’s all they can do–just warn me to watch out. He’s had enough time to cross the US if he wanted to—and he has prescription dexidrine to stay awake. This is all very scary and horrible. If he did kill himself, and he was pretty clear about doing it, he puts the blame squarely on me and my going n/c with him. (he doesn’t call it n/c, calls it being selfish and mean and cruel, etc)

I don’t know, this is all very surreal. He’s made suicide like threats before so this is somewhat like the boy crying wolf. But he’s never disappeared before.

I don’t know how he could return to his life now—not with his photograph on the front page of his newspaper and article about the gun and suicide. I don’t know if he is parked in a car somewhere, slumped over. I don’t know if he is on his way to CA, or if he is already here.

I guess I have mixed feelings about going n/c with someone who is dependent, has a history of violence, is easily frustrated–even if they live across the country. I did email him back in June that our “friendship” was too stressful for both of us and it would be best to just throw in the towel. He seemed ok with that, I heard nothing from him for a few weeks or so, then he started in again as if I had never written that email. So it wasn’t just an abrupt n/c from me, although from his point of view I guess it was, even with an email saying let’s just call it a day and I wish you the best.

My dad (retired cop) and my cousin (retired cop) both think I should leave my house. The FL cops think he’s around there, on foot. My local cops just say be careful, don’t open the door.

This is all very surreal and frightening on many levels. I can’t see him killing himself, at least not without an audience. But maybe I am in denial, and he really is gone. But most people who are going to commit suicide would do it at home, not on the road. (he lives alone, so no worries about someone he cares about finding him)

I feel horrible and guilty and think daily phone call to prevent this from happening is far more humane than me doing a survivor version of discard—me going n/c is the same as him doing the discard thing (which he’s done off and on over the years—and it does hurt when you care about someone—now, whether he ever cared about me is highly debatable).

Any ideas, anyone???



How stressful for you! If I were you, I think that I would try and do what your father and cousin recommend, getting to a safer place. Hopefully, the ex won’t come your way, but he sounds terribly unstable. I’ll be praying for you.


I’m with Dad and Cousin…..get out…..leave….take a vacation.
Murder/Suicide is quite a possibility here…..especially with you at the ‘forefront’ of his mind.

You can’t feel guilty… can’t caretake him, or control his moves…..if he’s dangerous, he was dangerous before you went NC.

He is trying to control your emotions….and it’s working…..he’s somewhere, dead or alive, knowing that you are looking or getting messages from him.

This is SERIOUS! Don’t waste your thoughts on wishing you wouldn’t have gone NC…..his behaviors are all the reason to go NC… must protect yourself now!
I assume he knows where you live…..
Have you ever had a restraining order on him? If so… the FBI and let them in on it all……you are affraid for your life……

Unfortunately most cops (legally) can’t and won’t do anything until your dead…..or in harms way…..until the preventable issue happens….then they will investigate.
It’s up to you to protect yourself right now… have enough information to know your in danger…..get out of dodge!!!!!

Up and LEAVE!

You can’t stop him from killing himself…..that’s HIS choice.
Don’t let him take you down with him.

Please stay in touch here or at least with Donna, to let us know your okay…..I’m VERY CONCERNED ABOUT YOU DARLEN!!!!! VERY CONCERNED!

You don’t OWN this……this is NOT becuase of going NC…..In this world….as I said last night….we live only with our shadow……..His choices are NOT yours… can’t control a deranged person that is completely unstable…..

Know your in my thoughts…..

Ox Drover

Dear CA mom,

Oh, boy, now first off DO NOT FEEL GUILTY! You have been letting him “black mail”you into communicating with him, so you have been letting him c ontrol you via contact. When YOU QUIT doing this (letting him control you) he is now 1) punishing you 2) trying to up the ante and make you feel bad and control you 3) or he intends to show up and hurt you then either suicide by cop or go to a mental health facility after he hurts or kills you.

Personally I think the fact that he has left a SUICIDE NOTE should give the cops reason to check his financial records (see if you can’t push this) and secondly, I WOULD heed my retired cop family’s advice and go where the P can’t lay hands on you easily.

I think he will show up fairly sooner than later—not a lot of impulse control—so take leave of absence or vacation time and if you must go to work, have one of your retired cops (carrying a gun) escort you to and from work….

NO CONTACT is a problem to them they hate it, but it is the only way we can truly gain back our lives.

The suicide THREAT should make him elegible for a mental status exam at a hospital under police escort–maybe you can get his SISTER to institute that through the cops since you don’t have any relaitonship—but you know if the cops don’t want to see a head lien that says “MAN FOUND DEAD, cops ignoreD family’s pleas after man left sucicde note and disappeared”


Thanks you guys, I am going to pack up and leave. This is all still very unreal, as if it’s happening to someone else. It’s the culmination of 13 years of knowing this guy, being married to him, being abused in every way by him. But this is very extreme, even for him.

I hope he surfaces soon and if it’s in FL or here he will go into a mental health facility for sure. He was in one here before he moved to FL. An involuntary 72 hour hold due to drug interaction and acting crazy and scaring his neighbors. The police here confiscated his shotgun—never gave it back. He bought a new one when he moved to FL. So local cops do have a history on him.

I don’t work, so leaving will be ok. He has broken windows here to climb in and get at me, so pretty much any scenario is possible. But if he does kill himself, I don’t know how I would live with that. His choices are his, and I understand that, but if I had known he’d do something this awful I would have kept contact. Sorry, I am shaking and starting to cry. This is just starting to become real. He is missing, armed, out there somewhere, a danger to himself and maybe others. He’s 67 years old, alone, maybe not even alive. How does this stuff happen? How?

Ok, I am going to pack. I’ll check in here when something new turns up, as in when there is some resolution—he is either found or picked up.

Thank you all, very very much.


Alert your neighbors and put your house on ‘housewatch’ with the local police or sheriff……tell them you are going into ‘hiding’. IF anyone sees anyone around your property to alert the sheriffs immediately!!! NO questions.
If there is any way you can get a camera which records….Costco has them cheap….you can check your property from an iphone or remote computer…..this will tell you he’s in the area or has been to your home.

You DIDN”T cause this….you can’t caretake him! YOU is #1.

It happens when someone is unstable and Ill…….and a sociopath.

DO NOT let anyone other than completely trusted peeple know where you are going.

He’s shown aggression and violance prior……he won’t stop now.
Please stay safe….and DON”T TAKE ANY CHANCES!!!!!

If he does kill himself…..and quite frankly, a guy who takes his car into a body shop isn’t likely to do that…..UNLESS he takes YOU with him. But…..I say…..if he does kill himslef… will be final peace for YOU!
That too will be a healing journey, based on how much ownership your taking thus far……but….in the end….you will have your life back!!!

I wish you safety and peace…..
Until later~




We care about you, being very concerned about your safety and well-being. I wish that you didn’t have to face this stressful situation. You are in our thoughts and prayers.

Ox Drover

Dear CAMom,

Sugar, I also had to run into hiding for nearly 6 months…from my own son! and his cohorts, but let me tell you I can empathize with you about it not “feeling real” I hated to give up and run from my home.

FIRST—repeat after me.” IT IS NOT MY FAULT THAT HE ACTED THIS WAY”….even if he kills himself it is NOT YOUR FAULT.

Even if you had let him control you, He would sooner or later have pulled this carp! He may be a psychopath, or he may be any number of “diagnoses” but the thing is that YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE for his behavior.

That’s what you MUST understand and own, you are not responsible for anyone’s behavior but yourself.

What if I said “If you don’t send me a $100000 I will kill myself and YOU WILL FEEL GUILTY” and you don’t send me the money. Are you responsible if I kill myself? NO, of course not. Does you knowing him face to face and not me face to face make you any more responsible to him if he says “If you don’t keep contact with me and let me verbally abuse you then I will kill myself and YOU’LL FEEL GUILTY” make you any more or less guilty than if I said the same thing?

He is trying to make you worry about HIM, remember IT IS ALL ABOUT HIM…it isn’t about you…it is about HIM being the center of attention. People who care about you don’t hurt you like this by threatening to hurt themselves in order to punish you or make you feel guilty. He doesn’t love you, he wants to CONTROL you.

Kick this jerk to the curb and OUT OF YOUR HEAD—-but keep yourself safe!

Personally if I thought my Ps would suicide (for sure) I’d load the guns for them. But I think mine have no intention of suicide, more like homicide!

KEEP SAFE AND CHECK IN FROM TIME TO TIME!!! Or you’ll worry us and then think how guilty you’ll feel! (That last part’s a joke) (((hugs))))


Kalina over on another thread said it perfectly….

” in our own lives it’s the victim who is depersonalized; the sociopath watches us and uses our illusion of a bond to manipulate us.”

Your bond is thinking you must be in contact with him in order to keep him balanced, stable and not hurting himself or anyone else……and your depersonalized.
It’s an illusion….you have NO CONTROL over him or his actions.


Knowing the outcome of CAmom’s situation, I am thankful that she is okay, safe from harm (for good). She was terrorized long enough, no one deserving such treatment from another person. If it weren’t for having a sociopath in my life, I wouldn’t have known these people were in the neighborhood. God bless her.


CAmom has been on my mind since she originally wrote a few days ago…..
I have to say, her original post was heartwrenching for me….I was very concerned for her safety. I felt danger.

Her story brought back the ‘realness’ of the dangers of a spath.

He gave her all the clues….even told her outright of his plans. This sort of behaviors must be a lesson to us all…..don’t take it lightly.
We could sit around and talk ourselves into thinking ‘he’ is not so dangerous, we can help him……but the reality is….WE CANT”.
We may be able to prolong the inevitable….but that’s it….we are being played like a marionette by them.

I am sad that this will affect CAMom…..I am sad she has departed into another journey of healing…..BUT….this time….it’s final. Her life is hers now…..without interuption or disruption from a toxic person.
It was only ever going to be ‘him’ or ‘her’…..he would see to that.
I’m glad it was ‘him’.

I hope CAmom can get to a place of healing…..and removing herself from ANY responsibility from his actions.
I can’t imagine the pain she is is……

I send her Mojo and my best thoughts…..and I hope she knows, she’s not walking along without our love and best from LF.


EB and Bluejay,
I, too, am praying for CAmom. I had read her post about him committing suicide and I had read her posts before that that he was threatening to her.
I also felt danger, EB. And it was strong.
His ability to actually do this clearly illustrates his propensity for violence.
And I pray that she comes through the pain and healing from all of this and chooses NOT to take the guilt trip he tried to lay on her by doing this. Yes, she is finally free and I pray that she sees and feels the freedom. And I hope she comes back to LF and KNOWS we are all here for her.

My ex-spath tried to commit suicide twice. The first time, he slit his wrists vertically, so that he would bleed out quickly and he did it in front of me. I did work with the psychiatrists, etc… to help him do what he needed to do to heal on a mental and emotional level.
The second time, he ate a ton of pills and came extremely closde to not making it. THIS time I felt no guilt and no responsibility. And BOTH times were because I had told him we were done and the 2nd time I had also had him arrested.
If he couldn’t CONTROL my life, then he would try to make the rest of it a living hell by killing himself.

Suicide is a CHOICE. It’s one made by the person who chooses to take this action. It has been called the ultimate selfish action and in many ways, it is. The people left behind try to deal with WHY, what they missed, self-doubt and a host of things. Just MHO.

Ox Drover


You are right I think that suicide is the ultimate selfish action, ESPECIALLY when the person “threatens” it and “blames you” for it! I had a former foster son who committed suicide, but he did not threaten, didn’t even leave a note. It was painful I am sure for his wife and his mother and his step kids, but I think he did it to end his own pain, not to inflict pain on others. Which is some sort of solace to me if not to his family. He was never a mean kid and had grown up with a P for a father and an enabler for a mother, and he let my P son lead him for a while, but he had a conscience, he cared.

CAmom’s Psychopath though, did the best he could to hurt her and when he had NO other way to hurt her, he was willing to take his OWN LIFE FOR NO OTHER PURPOSE THAN TO HURT HER. He didn’t so much want to end his own life, but he would use anything even that, in ORDER TO HURT HER. Talk about an EVIL purpose in an EVIL person.

Cut his nose off to spite his face! Being willing to do the ultimate sacrifice IN ORDER TO HURT SOMEONE ELSE. If that’s not evil, I don’t know what is!

I hope and pray that she realizes what he tried to do to her, and doesn’t fall into the trap of accepting the blame or responsibility for HIS EVIL ACTIONS. They ARE HIS, not hers. God bless and comfort her!


Cat and others,

I didn’t know CAmom’s story, just bits-and-pieces (eg. divorced to a man who sounded a bit strange, like having a sub-personality named Sam, never having heard of such a thing before, etc.). When she posted about the ex-husband sending a suicide note, that was the first I was aware of how dangerous he could be. It is all tragic. If anyone deserves peace on earth, it’s her. I don’t understand why some people have more suffering than others in this life, believing this to be so.



I agree with you, thinking that sometimes people commit suicide to end the emotional pain (which seems like it will never end), not to spite someone. It’s all so disturbing, making my heart ache, definitely being in a fallen world.

Ox Drover

BJ, I think that is what my former foster son did, to end his pain, not to hurt others with his suicide. Occasionally someone who is VERY depressed if treated with antidepressant medication will “gain enough strength” to kill themselves, which is why I think that people who are very depressed need to be closely monitored during treatment with AD drugs. He did not leave a note, did not threaten or warn anyone he iintended to kill himself, just DID it. If anyone is to “blame’ it is the family doctor who gave him AD medication without counseling and closely monitoring him, but in any case, the young man didn’t do it purposely to HURT someone else I don’t think.

The P who was trying to hurt CA mom was a horse of a different color, he was TRYING as hard as he could to HURT HER. “I will control you or I will make you sorry” —EVIL.

I hope she will come back here and receive comfort! She did not deserve to have this evil act heaped on her shoulders and I hope that she finds peace! Anytime they THREATEN it is a sign they ARE dangerous. LISTEN.


Great advice ML. The not believing lies was my first step as was adding up all the instances of crappy behaviour as a whole picture – this was something he always tried to manipulate me out of doing. Obviously it was in his favor if he could get me just to look at the current isolated misdemeanor he had performed rather than examining the act in the context of all the other hurtful and sick things he did.

You are so right in your assessment of ‘someday’ – I lost years in just surviving day to day and was unable to make any plans for myself that Ii could carry out. I lost all my power and life revolved around making him happy (fat chance) and ensuring I didn’t stir up the anger that dwelt so close to the surface. There was no concern whatsoever for my wellbeing.

Ox Drover

Glad to see you back, Polly!


Ah Oxy I;ve been a bad gal 🙂 I’m seeing a new man and taking it slow, but am so not organised with dating … I had forgotten how much time it takes up! I talked with him the other night about needing some ME time to blog and think and just have solitude. What a refreshing change it is to be around someone who isn;t a psychopath – he;s actually interested in what I think and feel – joy!!!

I can’t believe the difference – seriously. I had thought I would never meet anyone after the psycho- I had the feeling I was far too damaged. But here we are enjoying one another’s company … it’s so nice really 🙂 How are things with you?


Pollyolyoxen……free, free, free……

Do your homework on him…..and DON”T EVER LET HIM TREAT YOU POORLY!!!!!!


Ox Drover

WOW, Polly!

I hope this guy turns out to be “Mr. Right” but you ARE right relationships take up so much time and energy. I do advise you to TAKE IT SLOW ALL AROUND.

Asking him for some “alone time” is really good, it is setting boundaries that are reasonable. The only people who don’t want or need some “alone time” are psychopaths I think.

My husband and I had our US time, and our alone times, and our separate things we liked and the things we both liked, and we supported each other in that. I never ever felt smothered by him and I didn’t’ smother him either. We had our disagreements (He was an engineer and no one can live with an engineer and not have disagreements—but they were over which refrigerator to buy, NOT over him drinking or gambling, or girlfriends or lies. The one thing we both had was ABSOLUTE TRUST in each other.

We might butt heads on any issue from politics to how to build a fence, and we might do it loudly even, but there was NEVER any verbal abuse or physical abuse or lies. Anything else I could live with just fine! We pulled on the same end of the rope, and supported each other.

My PERSONAL “deal breakers” on any new or even older relationships of any kind that I have with folks (and I would especially have this deal breaker with someone I was dating) is

1) Any LIE about anything. (or frequently forgetting things like where he went to school, or what his degree was or stuff like that)
‘2) any criminal record worse than Jay walking
3) frequent relationship changes (lots of partners and/or marriages)
5) being an enabler personality
6) drug or alcohol abuse of great amounts unless sober many years
7) Talks demeaning to anyone
8) anger issues, or acts out if “provoked,”
9) doesn’t have any family or friends long term
10) job hops or gets fired
11) doesn’t want to spend time with my friends, or for me to spend time with them
12) None of my friends like him (and I will ask them why)
13) Doesn’t have reasonable relationship with his children or parents or doesn’t want me to meet them (this is one I’d have to look at carefully, because I don’t have a “reasonable relationship” with either of my DNA donors and with 2 of my sons, but at the same time I can SHOW (not just say) WHY!)

That’s about it for the list that I can think of off the top of my head.

But if you essentially don’t put up with people who won’t respect your boundaries and cull out the dead beats I thinkk you’ve got a good chance of not hooking up with another psychopath.

And the nicest part is that you can disagree with a normal person and it isn’t the end of the world. LOL

You can ask for things from a normal person and chances are they’ll give them to you, not mooch off of you instead.

Keep us informed here Polly, and tell us more about your guy! If he’s not good to you 100% of the time, kick that dude to the curb! Deliberately nasty even once is a NO NO and a deal breaker for me! Notice I said the DELIBERATELY. Anyone can accidently do something, but when you point it out, they will talk to you reasonably about it, and you can work things out and get an APOLOGY which a P would never do. LOL

I’m so happy for you Polly, but just keep it slow. He’s not the only bus on the route so if he isn’t reliable, find you one who is! (((Hugs))))


Oh Erin and Oxy – you are just lovely! I thought about both of you as I was getting ready for dates – bouncy ‘date hair’ lol He’s so different to my usual ‘type’ – good career, tertiary education, logical and yet emotionally expressive and thoughtful beyond words … little gifts that mean something to only us. The best part of all is that we can TALK – for hours and hours about anything and everything and we can disagree and it’s not the end of the world.

I remember with the Psycho that he didn’t want to talk about previous relationships that had failed (wonder why!), but we have openly discussed our pasts and what we’ve come to learn as a result. We’ve also discussed our upbringing and turns out we had remarkably similar parenting with a high emphasis on morality and accountability.

I was honest with him the very first night I met him about my reasons for going slowly and he has been really sensitive to that. He asks me from time to time about what happened and realises that it profoundly affected my ability to trust and worldview. He has ensured he is reliable and keeps his word – if he says he’ll call at a certain time, he calls right on the correct minute.

I’m really enjoying spending time with him. I like his mind and his morals and I love how he’s so interested in what I think and feel. But I am realistic – it’s early days still and we may find we clash on certain things. It might fall apart down the track, but I have the feeling that because we started off as friends, we have a more sure footing upon which to base things. If it fails – it’s not the end of the world. You can get along with many people and I can get along with most. I haven’t found an intellectual rapport like this before though and it just adds to the chemistry!

It’s given me confidence back that I am not defective and I am still capable of being in an adult relationship. I had no idea what the impact of the abuse would have been – I didn’t know if my body and psychology would be able to cope but am delighted to report that things seem not back to normal but … everything still works! Not that I”m using it at the moment – we’re taking things very slowly.

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