By | November 15, 2008 745 Comments

A ‘female’-type psychopathy?

We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.

Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?

I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.

A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.

In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.

Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?

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The two major differences I’ve noticed in dealing with my ex are. 1 The ability to use a female biased system for manipulation and blackmail. i.e. After lying about occupation and insurance coverage (90%). Then getting pregnant after faking a pregnancy. I discovered most lies and the fact she had no insurance. I tried to get insurance but there’s no way beings she was already pregnant and delivery had to be c-section. I had already wiped out my savings taking care of her during her fake cancer so there was no choice but for her to get on public assistance. While applying for p.a she sent a text “I can’t believe you won’t get me a car, if i don’t sign these papers you have to pay for baby”. One of many examples of blackmail power, enabled by a biased system. Another is sex abuse allegations. I should be finished with those now but the amazing thing to me is if you remove the sexual connotation from allegations it’s exactlly what she has done to the children. Aided of course by the systems knee-jerk reaction to such allegations. I was ordered no contact for 4 months (not even telephone) from that ordeal. Short term effects on my daughter were that of seperation anxiety. Who knows what its done lone term. 2nd major difference as I see it is the ability to use the most precious and treasured possesion to nearly everyone (children) not just as a pawn but a weapon. After getting pregant (for real) some telling quotes from her were”I could do anything I want to you and you’d take me back” and “the only reason you’re here is to pay my bills”. She knew how much I love and wanted children and the fact I never wanted to have a child be from a “broken home” and used it to the nth degree. She would kick me out twice a month( essentially instantaneously taking my daughter from me) just to satisfy her sadistic needs. This went on for a year. You wanna talk about POWER. I don’t pay her outrageous bills, I lose my daughter. I don’t provide for her adult children, I lose my daughter. I prosecute her adult son from stealing from me, I lose my daughter. She makes up me having an affair, I lose my daughter. She makes up her having an affair, I lose my daughter. Absolutely nothing I could do about it except leave the child I’ve wanted for 25 years and take my chances with the same biased system. P.S I won custody of my daughter 4-1-09


Dear hardlesson: I’m so sorry to hear about all you’ve been through. I suspect she started off in her teenage years telling all the boys she dated that she was pregnant and needed them to pay for her abortion … every single one of them … meanwhile, she was never even pregnant. They do seem to start off with the small stuff and build up to the bigger better cons … as they go on through their lives. The use the system and twist and contort it … they cry at the drop of a hanky … they play everyone for everything they can get.

Take some deep breaths when dealing with her evil and pray to God to protect you and the children … all the children involved with the likes of her… when going through court due to her antics.

She is definitely EVIL. I’m sure others on this blog that has dealt with simiar situations as yours can give you specific advise about to curtail her abuse.

Peace to your heart and soul. I’ll keep you in my prayers. I always pray for my LF family.


First, it makes me sick to my stomach what your wife has done to you and your daughter and because people abuse the system (and human beings) by false accusations, children who are really in danger seem to get no help. The stories we have seen on news and read in papers about people who get their children taken over false accusations and fighting the system to get them back while other children suffer their lives in abuse where there is no help, no hope. In my opinion it all comes down to one person…the Judge who makes the decision and holds the power over lives. Hardlesson, do you know that there are Judges making these decisions who came out of Traffic Court, Misdemeanor Court or maybe specialized in Taxes, Bankruptcy, etc. as attorneys while in private practice or with a firm? I think this has something to do with the craziness and irrational decisions that are sometimes handed down. I also feel this needs to be changed and there should be some place for mandatory, special training in the area of Family Court before any Judge can begin to qualify in the area of making such decisions which are life altering to children and the parents. The man I am married to is an attorney (we are divorcing), and could quite conceivably be appointed as a Family Court Judge some day. He would in no way qualify for this. These Judges will somtimes sit around a table with a drink in their hands and laugh about the people in their courtroom when they have rendered a decision unfavorable to them, or speak of some horrible detail from a past case without ever changing the expression on their face. It is creepy and heartless. They never have to see the people again, so it means nothing to them to wipe others out. I have known enough Judges to say that they are not all this way but there are enough of them that the lives they ruin and turn upside down can be a staggering amount by the time they leave the bench. If there was some way to make them work with therapists and mandatory psychology courses before they were ever allowed to make such important decisions, my vote would be a definite YES!!! Please don’t ever give up on your little girl and fight for every moment and every right you can get.It appears your wife wants to turn you away from this child and the power she holds over you is the fear of continued accusations. I suggested this to someone before and I will say it again. When you have visitation with your daughter, start taking her to a therapist with you to counsel you together. This will be great damage control for both of you and as far as I know there are no laws to prevent you from going to therapy with your child during the time the court has set up your visitation. Good luck and God Bless.

Ox Drover

I thinkk (for what it is worth) tht many females who are labeled “Borderline personality disorder)are actually psychopaths, the “female” version. I have seen only one diagnosed BPD male (wrist cutter and all) that I know for “sure” was what his “label” was. I’m not sure what the difference the hormones of the two sexes do to the behavioral differences in men and women, and society has trained men and women to behave somewhat differently, so it could be a hormonal & a behavioral difference.

The rate of females being incarcertaed in our country for violence is rising dramatically lately though.

Female murderers for example have been more inclined to poison or kill someone with less “violent”means than gunfire, but lately that is changing as well.

My son C’s wife has much of the chaotic back ground that many psychopaths have, multiple short term marriages/relationships, poor choices, poor parenting skills, frequent outbursts of violence, throwing things, threats. She had never been in trouble with the law that I know of prior to being arrested for trying to kill my son, and stealing $24,000 from my mother. She had a “S & M” affair with a man she knew was a convicted child abuser, ex convict, and made plans with him to rob my mother and kill my son and make it look like “self defense.”

She is a frequent liar, shows no real remorse, blames others for her arrests, etc. so I think she “qualifies” on a lot of the PCL-R,, but maybe not a 30. There is suspicion that she might also have self abused by bruising herself. She did hit my son, who did not respond, but would leave the house until she calmed down.

I do know that she was willing to kill my son. That she wanted him dead.

My X DIL’s daughter is a typical Borderline Personality disordered young adult. She has no impulse control, and no common sense at all. She refuses to work or go to school, throws tantrums on a regular basis and will hurt you if she can when she is in a rage, and then the nextminute is telling you how much she loves you. She is a thief and a liar as well. She is also sexually permiscious and has been since an early age.

Actually, though, what difference does it make what “label” is pasted on them? Maybe for research purposes or legal purposes, but as far as relationships are concerned the lable “BAD NEWS” is about all I need to know.


Warped empathy is something I believe I have witnessed in my aunt and her youngest daughter. They become enthralled when others are experiencing trauma, discomfort or drama in their lives.They seem to not be able to get enough details about others personal lives and misfortunes. One thing that has always struck me as odd is that they become animated and their voice pitch goes from a deep low to a higher level when they are speaking about someone who is experiencing personal pain or crisis. I wonder if there is any studies on voice tones and inflection. I mentioned in an above post the cavalier and other times unemotional tone some lawmakers have when discussing awful things. With my aunt and her daughter there is what I can only describe as a gleeful? sound in their voices when ruminating over others pain. When they experience personal crisis they laugh about it and dismiss it as comical and unimportant to them. I received a call from someone last week who was astounded that they were laughing because they were being investigated by the Department of Child and Family Services. My aunts granddaughter, who is 10 had been molesting her 2 1/2 year old great grandson over the summer. My aunts youngest daughter is the mother of the 10 year old girl. Does this sound in any way humorous to anyone?!! This is not funny, it is horrifying! There is a long history of violence and molestations in their family and they are laughing about this as if they are watching Comedy Central. What is that? Someone explain this to me and why they would laugh over something incredibly inappropriate. They should be ashamed over making light about this if not for the children involved, then for themselves. If that isn’t weird enough the person who told me this said they told her my son had been kicked out of two schools. My son has never been kicked out of a school and is an honor roll student. The 10 year old girl has been in plenty of trouble at school and it was rumored in my family that she had been kicked out of school. I know of an incident where she had taken a knife to school and her mother buys her those pocket knives. Does anyone here know someone who buys knives for their children? Why would anyone plant those seeds in their children? I don’t like that they are turning their attention towards my son because this mother and daughter have been out of control for as long as I can remember. I don’t see any boundaries in them and when they are angry at people for perceived wrongs they tend to feed each others anger. By the time they are done ripping and tearing on their object of hatred for the moment they completely demonize people and convince themselves that every ugly accusation they can hurl holds truth. They believe their own lies and it is bizarre to watch them when they go off. It’s as if they are in a trance and what they are mirroring is hatred of humanity. If anyone tries to reason or disagree with them they are swift to take revenge and punish. I have never heard them say they were wrong or sorry for anything they have said and done. They brag about cruel things they do to people and seem proud of it. Everything they say and do is presented with justification no matter how heinous or damaging. I have a large family and am not close to everyone but as far as I know they are the only two who are overtly disruptive and wear their meaness like a badge they are proud of. Is this a possible type of female sociopathy and why are they this way but my other family members aren’t? Many of my family won’t have anything to do with them and I have them on n/c. I would also like to know how do you get this type of person to permanantly stay out of your life when they are obsessing and plotting.


Dr Steve you can go to my site (when mom is the abuser in the blogroll on the left) to see examples of female psychopaths. Female offenders are under reported as it is and when you get into areas such as female sex offenders the report rate is even less. Out of 1,000 men who disclosed being sexually abused by a female only 4 ever reported it. That is less than 1%. And the same applies for female victims of female offenders. We expect men to do these things and to be this way but not women. Research is slowly showing that to be faulty.

Then there is the whole issue of perceptions. The same exact behavior is often viewed differently depending on the gender of the person doing it. For example one typology of female sex offenders that some use is called Teacher/Lover. Yet everything about that typology applies to some male offenders as well but you will not see that title because it is offensive. But the professionals who came up with the title do not seem to notice how their own sexism has played out by using that title.

I am getting ready to make a post that shows a video that 20/20 did where they had a woman being abusive to a man in public and people’s reactions. A common reaction is the old “you go girl” he deserved it and that is one of the reactions shown. They assumed he had cheated on her or something and that made it acceptable for her to be abusive. But when the roles are reversed it is a different story. Wrong is wrong but society does nto see it that way yet.

Another example of this is when a parent kills their children. Often when a woman kills her children it is seen as “a cry for help.” When a father kills his children, I have never seen it portrayed as he was crying out for help. When women behave badly, we often seek to understand why; when men behave badly, we often judge and condemn them.

Of course I am speaking in generalities here.

There are quite a few female psychopaths out there but they are viewed in a different way and so a different label is attached.


Here is just one recent case from my site:

Investigators allege she put her 2-and-a-half-year-old son Zachary in boiling water on Oct. 20, according to court papers, causing second- and third-degree burns on his buttocks and scrotum. Those burns prompted the child abuse and maiming charges.

Rich beat her son and sexually abused him between Oct. 17 and Oct. 20, causing bruising to his head and a black eye, according to arrest warrants. She also burned the bottom of his left foot with a cigarette, authorities said.

Other reports indicate that prior to putting the baby into boiling water she had placed something inside the baby’s rectum which required surgery to remove it and a colostomy bag to be put in place.

Now tell me if that does not sound exactly like a male psychopath? Heck it even sounds like a hollywood psychopath. Now I have no idea if the person in question is or is not but that is something a psychopath would do.

We see these things but don’t see them.

To quote Dr. Christine Hatchard:

In our society, mothers are automatically given special status, and certain characteristics, such as “nurturing, caring, protective” are attributed to them. The truth is, at her core, a mother is a woman and a human being, and like any other human being, is capable of the same range of violence, hate and autonomous behavior. To view women or mothers any differently, is to not realize their full potential as human beings, for better or for worse.


Good grief! How have you and your son dealt with these monsters?! Your x-dil and her daughter sound much like my aunt and her daughter-and now it is being passed down to the 10 year old granddaughter. It’s becoming multi-generational. Maybe it just takes that one person to choose to kill their conscience and then anyone else at their mercy(especially children) is going to have a strong probability of following in their footsteps. I don’t think there is any way of stopping this because these people would never seek help or any kind of therapy. I get the impression from my aunt and her daughter that they feel great about themselves…everyone else is messed up. Everything can be “narrow” that they present at times and others it is without boundary, so you never know what you are getting. They believe they are the ultimate Christians, and Catholics, J.W’s, Mormons, Jews, and all others are headed for hell. Anyone who isn’t Republican is evil and immoral, and on it goes while they have affairs, illegitimate children, destroy friendships, marriges, reputations, children and anything or anyone who crosses their paths.
The daughter (of aunt) was bragging last year about all the “free days” she gave her girls off school each month. She seemed quite pleased with her liberal, forward thinking. I told her she was making school insignificant to her girls and lying in front of her daughters on the phone to the school when they weren’t really sick. Bad example. Of course, these kids are going to fail in school and she has taught them how. This year her 16 year old has been in bootcamp since summer. Other of my family said she was in trouble for stealing a car. This is being passed off as the 16 year old suddenly rising up out of bed at 2:00pm and voluntarily joining bootcamp…and the parents are beaming with pride over her decision and great accomplishment. This girl wouldn’t go to school, get a job or do anything that involved structure but they are telling our family she decided to join and stay in bootcamp where she is rising at 5:00am, working and military style exercise for 6 months. Yikes! They are perpetuating a lie rather than caring enough for this girl to say you did wrong and there are consequences to pay. Worse than that is crediting themselves with good parenting and presenting the bootcamp “decision” as a result of their good guidance. It wasn’t a decision it was a sentence. I know this sounds like an old saw but bootcamp could be the best thing that ever happened to that girl if it gets her out of that household forever. Somehow, though, I don’t see this girl having much of a chance with her mother and grandmother in her life. It pisses me off to see adults wiping out any hope or potential future for success and happiness for a child.
I think you and your family had angels watching and protecting you. For anyone reading this that doesn’t believe. I mean no offense. I just think God intervenes sometimes in our lives. It’s like the sun breaking through a dark storm that is raging.


Here is an article I did that looked at a female psychopath:

This case is, to me, a good example of a mother being a psychopath and her son being a psychopath with her.


I remember seeing part of that program on the female abuser. Abuse is not acceptable from anyone. What is happening with people and our society as a whole? Does anyone or everyone remember having a female babysitter, relative/ or not, that was charming, affectionate and fun before your parents walked out the door and a whole different face was presented when they were gone?


My Sisters baby sitter want me that was my first time being attacked by a women :)~ It was’nt all bad :)~


Blogger T


I dont know if you saw my post but this is The Good old boy, Red neck , Rights of passage ! If a women takes advantage of a young man or boy it is viewed as right of passage and If a man takes advantage of a young women or a girl it is called rape! Double Standard ! I know this is not Politicaly correct but it is the truth our society has many double standards when we view the sexes. It’s time to grow up and call people people ! LOVE jere



Ox Drover

Dear inthebreach,

this woman had a son with muscular dystrophy and the daughter. the daughter was rebellious and uncontrollable by age 13 or 14. She was allowed to get her way by throwing fits and becoming physically violent. The son was in a WC by the time my son met this woman on the interent and so she was looking for a “meal ticket” and found one in my son.

She immediately started isolating him from the family and we had little contact with him for several years. When her son’s impending death was not long away, she started the affair with the Trojan Horse Psychopath that had infiltrated our family. (We found S & M photographs of her naked in his camera after his and her arrest) When he was unable to find me to kill me, they decided to steal the money from my mother had been persuaded by my DIL and the TH-P that I was “after her money” (mother had put it in an account with my DIL able to sign for it “in trust.”) So when my son found out about the affair and offered to go to counseling with her or whatever it took to salvage the marriage. She agreed to this without any intention of following through, instead she stole the money, bought guns for him and herself and made the plot to kill him, making it look like “self defense”—unfortunately for her, it was a felony for her to knowingly buy a gun for her BF who was an ex-convict, so she went to jail too, when my son managed to get to 911 before her boyfrind with the gun could push through the door. I thank God that my son was able to hold the door closed and that the police were close by when the call was received. (She was trying to take the phone out of his hand while he was dialing while her BF was trying to push through the door.)

Yes,, the chaos does run for generations. There is both the genetic part and the enviornmental part. I know very little about the woman’s family background except that there are many men in her family who have had muscular dystrophy and she decided to have children knowing she could be giving birth to such a son, also that her daughters could be carriers. She did not get tested “cause I don’t want to know” Her daughter also did not get tested for the gene and she has had one pregnancy already (with her meth-head boy friend) and fortunately she lost the baby with an ectopic pregnancy.

This girl did not finish high school, my son did get her into Job Corps at age 22, but that didn’t last long as she didn’t approve of al the “stupid rules” they had…like getting up before noon, and not thowing violent fits if she didn’t get her way. She has no job skills and has no desire to learn any. The only job she ever had lasted 2 weeks because she was bored stocking shelves.

Several years before all of this I had to ban her from my home unless either my son or his wife were with her because she was so sexually inappropriate with my other son D, 2 days after the airplane crash that killed my husband and burned son D pretty badly. Even with the house full of people the only way I can describe her behavior in front of these people is like a “dog humping your leg.” I tried to talk to her mother about this and she said (this will make you laugh) “Well, how is she supposed to know how to behave if no one teachers her?”

I told her mother that I thought it was HER job to teach her daughter how to behave in public NOT MINE. (this did not endear me to the DIL) What I told my son C, priavetely was “Don’t bring her to my house unless she has a choke chain around her neck and YOU have the leash in your hand.”

At every “family” meal, like Thanksgiving etc., (about the only time we saw them) both of the “children” (older teenagers) would be rude, misbehave and be obnoxious. DIL would make “attempts” to “shush them” or to control them, but never successful. My son’s attempts to teach the children manners or encourage them to go to school or to work were totally thwarted by his now-X wife. She never worked, but she managed the pay check he brought home. (to the deteriment of his credit I might mention.)

My son was aware that his “marriage” was a miserable night mare but he “kept up a front” and didn’t complain to any of the family or let anyone know what was going on. I knew he was depressed and guessed it wasn’t great but I never realized just HOW bad it was, with her throwing fits, hitting him (trying to “provoke” him to hit her back, which he would not do). My son had committed himself to the marriage “for life” and I think that he would have stuck with it if his wife hadn’t tried to kill him. No matter how miserable he was he would not have left her or thrown her out.

She had found the “perfect patsy” and she milked my son for all he was worth. I had figured she wouldn’t stay around long after her son died, and she started the affair about 2 months before the son died. The attempt to kill my son was about a month after her son died.

My son packed his stuff and left the farm about 2 weeks after she was arrested. He has been living in another state, living with an old high school friend and working. He came home for visits and for his divorce hearing. He is moving back to the farm tomorrow. His roommate has just moved his personality disordered GF into the home and my son isn’t up to putting up with that, so decided to come home. She’s already made one suicide gesture and several other things for “drama.”

He’s actually done a pretty good job in his healing, but hasn’t got a lot of “reserve emotional energy” to cope with that much “drama.” I’m so glad he is coming home! The farm has been our sanctuary and will continue to be. I’m proud of my son, he has a good heart and is a good man. He’s intelligent, college educated, hard working, responsible, kind and compassionate, which isn’t too bad considering he was one of the most hyper ADHD kids I ever saw! I’ve never seen him do a mean thing in his life or do an unkind act since he shot a cow in the butt with his BB gun when He was 8 or 9 just to see her jump! He actually wasn’t trying to hurt her or aware it could have hurt, he just enjoyed startling her. He did get grounded “for the next 10 years” though! LOL

C doesn’t post here but he does come here to read, and he ‘s learned a lot about psychopaths. He is NC with his P-brother, and he and I have a good relationship again.

Now that I am a few months out of all this and back home, etc. I can look back at all this chaos and pain with a positive slant. Without all this mess my son C would still be married to that witch, so frankly, it has all been a “worth it” in the end. “All things work together for GOOD to those that Love the Lord.” So sometimes though we don’t see it at the time it is happening (and painful) any thing, no matter how horrible can turn out to be a blessing when it is all said and done. I truly feel like this has been one of those cases. It was cheap at “twice the price.”


Ox Drover,
Utterly, unspeakably evil. Your x-dil is locked up for a long time I hope. I just cannot fathom how you and your sons got through this..and then to lose one. Still living but you can’t have him in your life. I am happy C is coming home and maybe it was good for him to be away for awhile, so homecoming will be closure of sorts. Sure evidence of his healing and the things he has learned to recognise as red flags is the roomates girlfriends pity and power plays. He knows to walk away from that situation..that is wisdom and experience.

The bb gun incident is so typical of onery kid stage. They do such silly things that tick you off at the time, but then you look back and see the humor. My grown girls are funny but my son, at 9 already rivals them in the humor department. Sometimes I have to remind myself he is only 9 because his humor is beyond his years quite often. When he is telling me something funny I have the habit of pulling my glasses down to focus because I am one of those people who get teared up when I laugh out loud. He knows he got me when the glasses are being pulled away.

So far he hasn’t noticed I am the oldest mom at school. I am praying this lasts a bit longer and no one refers to me as his grandma. Can’t wait for that day!!

BloggerT7165 has some informative and intersting posts on here. Is he a therapist too? His title and subject on female sociopaths was interesting and I wonder if he is a therapist if he is seeing these women come through his practice more and more. I didn’t read the side blog on women abusers because the one he posted about the woman who abused her precious son made me sick a bit to my stomach. If I were a therapist, and I think I am one of few on here that isn’t, I would NEED a therapist after dealing with some of the patience they counsel. Good grief Gerty, I don’t think I could sleep again.

I am sending love and prayers to you and C and guess what OxDrover? Your son is going to be home for Thanksgiving and Christmas. You are going to end this year beautifully and think of all the good company the two of you will be for one another. I am smiling! In Christ, Breach


Did I spell Patients wrong? Does no good to be a perfectionist when half my punctuation is off the mark. Don’t think anyone is going to give a flip about it! Geez! Time to go to bed> Night

Ox Drover

Dear Breach,

Thank you for that affirmative response. Yes, C was a “difficult” child to raise, but looking back on it I can definitely see the humor in most of it. He was never a “bad” kid, just an ACTIVE one. I looked out the window one morning about daylight when I heard his voice shout “Hi, Mom!” He was about 6 yrs old and had hand-over-handed up a 50 ft rope into the top of a very tall tree and was holding on with one hand, and waving with the other. I about had a heart attack and choked back my natural inclination to scream “GET DOWN OUT OF THAT TREE NOW” and I said, instead, “Hi, sweetie, come on in for breakfast now!” Of course I also had to stiffle my inclination to strangle him for scaring me so much!

I despaired he would be able to grow up without killing himself. He wrecked every vehicle he owned til he was 25, but never got a scratch–thank you Jesus!~ He turned over his milk at every meal. He couldn’t carry anything without dropping and breaking it if it would break. But he was always so cheerful and happy and took everything in stride except learning his multiplication tables! He didn’t see any need to memorize them if he could count on his fingers fast enough. LOL

I’m so happy that he is living P-free and that he was able to recognize the RED FLAGS in his roomie’s GF, and also that he didn’t try to “save” his roomie from himself. He just made the decison to move, and he decided to move home instead of across town. He told me, “mom, I need to come home to the farm, my sanctuary.” He loves this place as much as I do and it is our sanctuary. I won’t let the black cloud that hovered over it for a while take that away from us.

We’re having good friends over for TG dinner, and it will be a CELEBRATION like we haven’t had in years! And believe me, we have MUCH TO BE THANKFUL FOR, LIVING P-FREE IS THE BEST ONE!

It is interesting you bring up this topic. I have been considering the relationship between psychopathic personality traits and criminality. I am coming to the conclusion that the “successful psychopath” does not really exist. They all seem to be criminal on some level. If success is not getting caught, it is only a matter of time. Check out this abstract and reference:

“In this study we examined gender differences in the PCL:SV employing a variety of statistical methods with two subsets of psychopathic individuals drawn from larger samples of 129 female and 499 male Swedish offenders. The larger samples included forensic psychiatric patients, forensic psychiatric evaluees and criminal offenders. We found gender differences in antisocial behavior, as defined in factor 2 of the PCL:SV, with female psychopaths (PCL:SV ≥ 18) displaying significantly more lying, deceitfulness and lack of control, while male psychopaths were more antisocial as measured by the PCL:SV. We conclude that it might be meaningful to use gender specific definitions in the assessment of psychopathy or, alternatively, slightly revise the diagnostic tools. Our results support the use of the three-factor model of the PCL-R and PCL:SV introduced by Cooke and Michie (2001) in female populations.”

Gender differences in psychopathy in a Swedish offender sample. Behavioral Sciences & the Law, Vol 23(6), 2005. pp. 837-850.

This study found criminality to be central to psychopathy and also found no relationship between the interpersonl facet and criminality. That may suggest that those who only have grandiosity, lying, decit and manipulation but not impulsivity, recklessness and boredom proneness are a different group.

Psychopathy and offending behaviour: Findings
from the national survey of prisoners in England
and Wales The Journal of Forensic Psychiatry & Psychology,
March 2007; 18(1): 23 ”“ 43


Then there is this:

Psychopathy in Female Offenders: An Investigation of Its Underlying Dimensions – Criminal Justice and Behavior 2002; 29; 692

Psychopathy is an important clinical construct in explaining criminal behavior, determining the likelihood of treatment response, and evaluating risk assessment. The majority of past research has focused on male offenders or male forensic patients. Psychopathy in females is relatively unexplored. The current study was designed to further investigate the underlying dimensions of psychopathy in females. Utilizing a sample of 119 female inmates from a large metropolitan area
jail, a series of confirmatory factor analyses was undertaken. Previous research and clinical tradition suggest the use of a two-factor conceptualization of psychopathy. More recent research suggests that a three-factor model may better capture the underlying dimensions of psychopathy. Two-factor models of psychopathy were not confirmed. However, the three-factor model reproduced the data extremely well. Clinical and research implications of this finding are addressed.

And this:

The two-factor models of psychopathy as propounded by Hare (1991) and Salekin et al. (1997) represented a poor fit for the current data,3 with none of the fit indices even approaching an acceptable standard. Although plainly requiring further studies with forensic and nonforensic samples, the current data strongly question the applicability of the two-factor models.

And this piece is interesting(emphasis mine):

In contrast with the two-factor models, the Cooke and Michie
(2001) three-factor model with testlets appears to have considerable promise in capturing the underlying dimensions of psychopathy among female offenders. Among females, the most salient dimension appears to be the lack of emotional range and empathy as evidenced by the very high factor loadings on Testlets 3 and 4 (.94 and 1.0, respectively).
In examining these testlets, which constitute the DAE factor,
the prominent items include callousness, lack of remorse, and shallow affect. These results suggest that deficits in affect are a prominent feature that strongly discriminates psychopathic from nonpsychopathic females


And DrSteve – ’female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?:

I think that as time goes by more studies like this one below will help to highlight that it most certainly does and has existed since day one. (emphasis in abstract is mine)

Childhood Maltreatment and Cluster B Personality Pathology in Female Serious Offenders

Ann Booker Loper, Negar Mahmoodzadegan, Janet I. Warren
University of Virginia

Sexual Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment
Volume 20 Number 2 June 2008 139-160

The authors examined early maltreatment among serious female offenders at a maximum security correctional facility, contrasting the maltreatment histories of inmates with and without Cluster B personality pathology. Women were interviewed regarding the frequency of 13 indicators of psychological or physical abuse perpetrated by maternal or paternal caregivers and the frequency of 10 types of sexual abuse perpetrated by persons at least 5 years older. Reports were based on inmates’ recollected worst years of maltreatment before age 16. Women in both diagnostic groups reported substantial early maltreatment. Cluster B inmates reported higher levels and a greater variety of maternal and paternal physical and psychological abuse but were not distinguished from non”“Cluster B inmates on levels of childhood sexual abuse. Inmates reported more physical and psychological abuse from maternal than paternal caregivers. The results document the high levels of childhood maltreatment of female prisoners and the relevance of this history to personality pathology.

Elizabeth Conley

I definitely believe that female psychopaths go undetected because they are able to hide behind female stereotypes and exploit the advantages civilizations extend the “weaker” gender.

I’ve seen women use claims of pregnancy with threats of abortion to manipulate men, women and institutions alike into giving them anything and everything they wanted. I’ve seen women use melodramatic claims of abuse to disguise slander, maligning their targets so credibly that reputations were ruined beyond hope of repair. I’ve also seen women get pregnant for the sole purpose of manipulating a gainfully employed and honest man into marriage. I’ve seen beautiful girls marry hard working men, run through assets he carefully accumulated for over a decade and run back to doting parents within 2 years, leaving the men disillusioned and broke.

In each case the women represented themselves as objects of pity, a naturally protected class, or helpless victims. I just don’t buy it any more.

Yesterday I posted some remarks about a brief social exchange between myself and a woman I considered fundamentally unethical. She was a newly divorced woman who was unhappy because she could no longer afford maid services and regular spa visits with fancy manicures etc. What I didn’t mention is that she also bitterly resented the amount of money from her share of the marital assets that was going to her only daughter’s college education. The daughter was an idealistic young woman with a strong work ethic who got excellent grades and planned to spend a few years in the Peace Corps. She had a close relationship with her father that seemed to exclude her mother. It wasn’t hard for me to see why. All of the daughter’s qualities were described by her mother with mocking contempt. The girl was plain, bookish, naively idealistic, etc.

I’ve interacted with too many women like the one above to be fooled any more. They are uninhibited in their basic selfishness, their self-image as a protected class, frail, delicate and deserving of infinite tenderness, not to mention their extraordinary willfulness. They WILL have their way, and nothing and no one matters beyond their needs, their wants or even their whims!

They leave their husbands and children badly scarred, and they create havoc in church, the workforce and the courts as well. The worst anyone ever says of them is that they might be a bit emotional, “high performance”, “high maintenance” or silly. I think they know exactly what they’re doing, and simply don’t care.

Elizabeth Conley

Dear Ox Drover, I hope your son C’s life gets much better soon. What a horrible betrayal he suffered from his wife.

It is wonderful that C recognizes his room-mate’s girlfriend will be high-drama, and knows he should leave. As a lifelong idealist, I admit it’s taken me a ridiculously long time to spot high drama people and RUN AWAY without shame.

Good Luck and God Bless You Both C & Ox drover

Ox Drover

Dear Elizabeth,

Thank you for the good wishes and he is doing just great I think in his healing! He tends to want to rescue others (that’s our family curse passed on for generations) but he now recognizes that as negative and futile.

Jesus put it nicely when he said “cast not your pearls before swine, least they trample themm into the mire and turn and rend (tear) you” and the other one I like is about ” a sow who is washed, returns to her mire.” No matter how you “wash” these human swine, they go right back into the nastiness. Offering them “pearls” of love and understanding is like offering these pearls to swine who will be unappreciative of the value of what they are offered and pissed off at you for not giving them what they really want”

My sons, like I am, are learning this and eliminating the “swine” in our lives—-

Your post above about the witch that came to your house with one of your husband’s buddies for the testosterone festival is a perfect example of women who move through society with impunity like a tick moving from dog to dog, as a parasite, using their looks and “sex appeal” as a meal ticket.

My son was comfortable around “handicapped” people (because I made sure he was exposed to enough people who were “handicapped” that he was not turned off by them and saw them as humans) so he was not turned off by her handicapped son and in fact, had the opposite reaction to try to “save” her and her son. So he was the perfect patsy for her situation to be her meal ticket. At the time she married my son, her son was not expected to live tooo many more years, and in fact, because of my son’s care of him, he lived almost 8 years after they married, well beyond the expected life spann for men with his type (the worst) of muscular dystrophy.

In fact, my son took off the last week of his step son’s life to stay with him and hold him in his arms as he finally died, (he only weighed about 67 pounds though he was 22 yrs old) while the “loving mother” was out with her BF playing bondage games and having “kinky sex” and drinking and drugging with her son’s medications. But boy could she play the pity card of the poor suffering mother. LOL I’m glad the son died before she went to jail.

She only got 8 months jail time (because I was able to keep her from getting bail) but 5 yrs probation and a no contact order. Her BF is still in prison (I got his approved parole revoked) but she found herself another one on the internet so she is “back in business” but she is down a notch or two, the guy is what we call “poor white trash” in these parts, no education, not much in the way of money, I think he has some form of disability income as he is legally blind, and from what I hear from others, he has a nasty P-ish disposition, so she is definitely down the food chain this time financially AND socially.

By the time she became involved with her BF, she knew he was an ex-convict, she knew he was a convicted 3-X child molester, she knew he had Hep C, and she knew it was illegal to buy him a gun and did it anyway. She did not think about the consequences of her actions apparently, or thought she was so smart she would never get caught (he obviously wasn’t too smart to get caught as he had a CONVICTION list of separate incidents a foot long).

She made her choices for whatever emotional reasons she could come up with, but none of them were wise or based on any kind of love for herself, her children or her husband, but based on a rage-filled mind which blamed others for her problems and unhappiness.

Getting her out of my son’s life was WORTH all the chaos and pain we all went through, if there had been NO other benefit. As it is, not only he is better off now, but I am and so is his brother, and we are away from my mother’s toxic influence as well. For that I thank God for his mercy and protection.


Elizabeth Conley: You would have loved to analyzed the women I worked with … always setting up their prey, using them for what they could get and then discarding them … to get promotions in the workplace.

I remember one supervisor. Nice guy. Was married and had a son from his first wife … I don’t really know the story about their marriage, but remember it was her fault why their marriage failed.

Anyway, the ink wasn’t even dry on the guy’s divorce papers when one of the female predators I worked with went right for the newest target. It made your head spin how accurate and precise her intentions were to use and abuse this guy to get her promotion.

Those of us who knew the characters, sat back and watched the show.

Long story short, she used him for several months, already moved on without his knowledge … when he cornered her in the workplace hallway … to ask her to sit down that evening and have a heart to heart.

The woman’s sleezoid female boss was her backup … as they both ran to the big boss and played the victim game … boo, hoo “we broke up and he couldn’t accept it … now he’s following me at work and harassing me”.

Well, of course, it was all hushed up and swept under the rug … she got her promotion, he (the supervisor) got a written reprimand in his work files.

The guy walked around in a daze for years after that attack … he was the wounded victim, never knowing what hit him.

Then years latter, he runs in to me in the parking lot of our new building. Asks me, if I had a minute. Sure, I said. What’s up? He said, Wini, I know you know so and so and this is what happened a few years back. I said, “I already know the entire story”… you were played from the beginning so she could get her promotion”. I told him I was sorry that this happened to you … we couldn’t believe how fast she went in for the kill on you … I mean, the ink wasn’t even dry on your divorce papers.

At least he knew the truth after our talk … which didn’t make me popular with the evil women were I worked … and the rest is history… but, to me, the man needed to know the truth.



And Dr Steve if you ever want to dispel the notion that female psychopathy may not exist, go to your State Women’s Prison and speak with the CO’s. What goes on inside the wire is not something that the public knows or cares about usually. I have a case study (in pdf form if you want it) of a woman who journaled her experiences and it looks at prison rape, women sexually assaulting other women and gives a description that most in the outside world never hear about.


BloggerT7165: Just go undercover in any office USA today. You’ll meet and greet many female predators disguised as the dutiful worker bee in any work force.

After I retired from my job, I decided to temp for a while. The very first job I was sent on had a female predator included in our crowd of temps. She kept warming up to me because we were closest in age, plus the fact that we were both single women.

For weeks as we got to know each other, I told her that I was keeping my distance from socializing with co-workers due to what happened in my other job.

Of course, she didn’t pay attention to my concerns and kept chumming up to me. I knew this chummy, chummy attitude well, since my female co-workers did the same to me, years prior.

Sure enough, another week goes by and she kept asking my opinion of who I thought the boss was in a team of staff in the place of employment that oversaw our work. I told her that I thought the 3 were equals and it was a team effort. True to form for the female predator she said “Well, I think X (the male on the team) is the boss and I’m going to make my move on him. You can make your move on the 2 females, if that is what you are in to.

After that break conversation, we were all gathered in front of X. This woman was the leader for that meeting. Her conversation with X, had nothing to do with work, it was about her ensuring he knew she was divorced, got the house, EX husband was no where in the picture …. and, how she needs a man’s help in starting up her tractor type lawn mower.

X, ate the attention up and made the other 5 of us temps sitting there listening to the dribble of this woman flirting with the team leader.

I tried several times to interject getting back on to why were in the meeting … aka work details. To be ignored as the two flirted with each other. A few of the other temps tried to interject to get back to work conversation or if we could leave the meeting and come back at another time.

Both Team leader X and this woman predator ignored us as they thought we were all rude … and they went back to flirting with each other.

Sure enough, my PTSD from what I dealt with in my former job kicked into gear and without realizing it I said “Well Mr. X, do we all have to date you”?

I’m laughing now, because I really didn’t mean to say that and loose my cool … but, you got it if you bet I was asked not to return … and I’m sure Ms. Predator, not only had an affair with Mr. X who was very married … she probably is up the ranks of this company, dumped Mr. X and I’m sure if he’s still working there … he takes orders from her now.

Parting words from Mr. X to me … “I have young daughters myself”. I looked at him and didn’t say a word… as he abruptly ended the meeting and true to form, Ms. Predator was so horrified at my comment as she cried her crocadile tears … and Mr. X walked her off the floor.

The other temps looked at me and said “she’ll learn, she didn’t know what she was doing”. I said to them “you’re very young and naive … she’ll be your boss some day and she’s the only one of us temps that never attended college”.



To All,
I do believe we as women have to be careful of whom we choose as a therapist too. Unfortunately there are (I have read) many sociopaths attracted to work in the areas of psychology. That seems to be the ultimate control a nefarious person with an agenda and an appetite to manipulate and destroy would be drawn to in profession. A woman hater or man hater could do devastating harm to people in therapy by blaming them for wickedness being perpetrated on them. I think a lot of people would not question a therapist and assume they are credible, informed and truthful. However, they have the ability to back up their beliefs with studies, briefs and so on to convince patients of their unquestionable certainty in their assessments. Problem is that most people don’t know (I believe), for every belief and truth a therapist may put to you as the absolute, there is as many that assert the opposite belief. So, how then do we know if we have a truly compassionate, sincere person who is trying to help. One thing is that gut feeling, intuit. Do you feel better or worse when you have talked to them? It took time for me to find the right therapist,but the best thing I heard was the therapist say that they also see a therapist…I knew this was the right person. This therapist also said they will not hire anyone who hasn’t been in therapy or will participate in therapy. That sounds tremendously healthy to me and it is the old axiom of “practice what you preach.” I think Wini, OxDrover, Indigo, Elizabeth and others have made some valid points on the subject here. I am not a therapist, but I still believe there is a larger part of the population that is male who are abusive. Must think about this more to enumerate my reasons why but I feel this way for reasons I need to examine further. Kind Regard, Breach


I Feel Like I am A qualified Master of therapy! :)~ Guduate of LFU Magna cum loud :)~ LOVE JJ


Dear Wini, Yes, in the workplace, I have come across a fair share of power hungery women and bullies. Infact I have also come across a fair share of manipulative and wily women too – you dont have to be a man to come across them. But I find in my private life, and at work, that I am becoming more aware of their wily and devious tactics. The nice demure smiles that cover a whole range of undercover manipulations. I am becoming much more assertive about protecting my boundaries, and looking back I have been emotionally ‘fleeced’ by a few women too. But thanks to what I have learnt, my radar is working quite well, and I am so much more aware of what I am being drawn into before I become committed to it. I was waiting for a friend over the weekend and I overheard two men talking – one was saying that he had met a woman on a dating website and that he had chosen her purely because of her blond hair and blue eyes. I think this is a lesson to us all, and I am realising it more and more, that one must find out about the personality behind the face before one commits anything.

I felt really strongly today that I had to turn down a new friend, who I felt had been ‘nice’ to me, in order to use me, then went awol. I wrote her a letter saying that I considered relatonships to be a two way process and that I felt that she had not respected or valued my friendship and that I no longer entertain relationships on that basis. I know it sounds harsh, but I am tired of being taken for a ride, and for once I put my foot down.

Hugs to you Wini.


Beverly and Inthebreach57: All my bosses had their Ph.D.s and higher … when I asked them over the years what their specialty was … of course, I got a variety of answers. I found it interesting that most said they studied psyche first, to learn about themselves, then just continued in the field because they put time and money into this field. Hence, why they ended up with the degree in it. To me, this meant they knew there was something wrong with them back before college days (LOL).

I remember one of these bosses, back in 1981 said to me about co-workers “Wini, YOU really care about these co-workers”?. I said “Of course, don’t you?”. He just shook his head. I was in my early 20s at the time of that conversation. That was my first red flag that this character was a psycho … thinking it strange that I would feel something (anything) for my fellow co-workers.

Before my asking them why they got their degrees … I just chalked it up that they were all avoided the draft to the Vietnam war, sitting the war out and getting as many degrees as they could, to prevent being drafted. I still feel this way, since any veteran that came into our building, these bosses (they were lower level then) didn’t care for … and hence, those vets ended up getting careers elsewhere. I found that very interesting that vets who fought for our country, put their lives on the line, don’t hang around with bosses like I had. Very interesting … very interesting indeed. Maybe the vets have courage, backbone, ethics, etc. … total opposite of those bosses.



Having been involved with a female sociopath I understand there are differences between the two types, but the bottom line is that they areBOTH disturbed individuals.

Dark Horse

To DrSteve (author of the article printed above),

Yes, there is without a doubt a female variation of psychopathy! Ninty percent of the articles I’ve read on this site about female psychopaths have read as an autobiography for me. Though there are differences in all of the stories, there are many, many simularities. Lying; manipulation; mental, emotional, physical (though not usually violent), spiritual, social, sexual, economic abuse; cheating (mostly emotional affairs, but can develop into physical/sexual affairs); controlling behaviors of all types; abuse of the social and legal systems (PLAYING VICTIM as they victimize others – male, female, old, young; it doesn’t really matter to them as long as they are winning/getting the attention/money/etc.). Female psychopaths WILL, without the slightest hesitation, use children as weapons against anyone they wish; for any reason!

Dark Horse

Note to Wini:

There is a very good reason those vets didn’t like your bosses, if indeed they (bosses) were psychopaths. Vets, particularly, COMBAT vets (this can include law enforcement officers, firefighters, and rescue personal) all share a unique something that connects all as a sort of family. That “something” is very difficult to describe, so I won’t try to explain it here.

That “something” is something psychopaths CAN NOT tolerate; they hate it. The reason is that it goes against everything a psycho wants. Sorry to disappoint you but if you haven’t experienced that “something” firsthand you’re not likely to ever to fully understand it.


Dark Horse: Read my original post and then when I got on a roll talking about my bosses. I know for a fact that my big boss was a psychopath, along with the majority of the other bosses at her level. The others were wimps that wouldn’t speak up to any of them in fear of losing their plush positions with high salaries that had no accountability whatsoever to keep said jobs. As for the others, I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt they were just plain selfish.

I knew those vets took off knowing full well what they were dealing with. It only took them a few days, they stayed a few weeks to a month or so, and they were long gone.

I wished I had the opportunity to transfer, but like I posted before, someone needed to work in that place, and that someone, along with the other 10% worked. The others just showed up and harassed us.

First hand? Yes. Do I comprehend it? Yes. Did the psychos in that place hate me? YES indeed they did.



The emotional drain and stress of facing those philistines each day had to take a toll on you. Dealing with one let alone a group of the ps would be overwhelming. I have heard stories of people who experienced similar things in their jobs and I absolutely believe you because I have seen people walk away from jobs they had been in for years and close to retirement but couldn’t wait it out another moment. It’s rotten and they probably know if they go after someone long enough they will eventually fold. Makes you wonder if they have some sort of dark celebration afterwards.


Well I believe there are plenty of female psychopaths out there . My basic premiss is that psychopaths are neither male or female , they just know how to play the part of the body they find themselves in . I believe a male psychopath is more likely to end up in jail for abuse or murder because they are stronger than there female victims . On the other hand it would be more difficult for a female psychopath to physically overpower the average man in an abusive context . Because of this physical difference psychopathic women tend to attack the mind of their male victims rendering them emotionally crippled . How they do this is debatable . My feeling from my own experience as a male victim is that psychopaths are able to shut either ones logical brain down or else they are able to tap into the subconscious and shut that down . At this point I am not sure which . Initially I thought it was the logical brain that was getting shut down , however now I am more leaning towards the concept that the subcoscious is being shut down which would maybe explain the total craziness that the victims feel and the apparent inability of the victim to understand what has happened to them


Just a side note on my last comment . When I broke up with my psychopathic X I found myself in a hell of a state that I could not understand . What was perhaps even more bizzare was that it appeared to me that other psychopaths , a male and a female , at the place I work were able to see the state I was in and immediately revealed themselves to me by adding their own little head games to the mix , perhaps hoping that they could finish off what my X had started. By this point I did not know who to trust and so chose not to trust anybody . Since that time I have read about 15 books and seem to have found myself again , I think . Not exactly 100% on that though as every now and again I get zapped with some confusion . Kind of a reminder that I must continue my quest to understand what psychopaths are and what they can do .




Okay, here is me chiming in…
I’ve obsessed about my husband’s ex-s all over this board. I definitely agree that there are just as many female S’s as male, it’s just that they aren’t studied as much. They are normally just considered “gold-diggers”, “bitches”, etc. Abused men often don’t come forward after horrifying relationships like women do, either. My husband was abused by her for 7 years. He is just now coming to terms with how his reactions to her abuse still affect him to this day.

Of course she uses the kids against him. That’s all she’s got on him. She’s more than once taken over and tried to keep them from him because she was mad. On a good day, she just over-steps boundaries. On a bad day, she insults everybody who is making her mad, or tries to commit suicide, or threatens violence, or steals cars out of anger. And then there are the worse days with her kids that we don’t witness, thus the molestation accusations from my stepson at four years old. The family court, of course, doesn’t believe a mother is capable of such heinous crimes, so after 1 1/2 years of fighting for custody in court, with all the evidence in the world, the blind judge gave her the kids joint custody with us.

Just last week, she failed to pick up her son from kindergarten on time, so the teacher put him on the bus to our house. I was picking up my sons from another school at the same time. Well, she showed up at my house looking for him, knocked on the door, then proceeded to go through my house while I was gone. He was down the street at a neighbor’s house. Of all the irresponsible, violating things to do. Then she just goes on, as though she had some god-given right to do that since she’s his MOM.

That is actually a G-rated version of the stuff she is capable of doing. I agree that S-women don’t end up in jail as much as S-men, either because they realize they don’t want to go to jail, and thus ‘ride the line’, or because they’re really good at talking their way out of trouble, as is the case with my hubby’s ex.


quest: Interesting that you wrote how the other psychos you worked with wanted to do you under even more so, knowing that you were already depressed and how they saw it on your face how you were done under already by your EX.

Opposite again. We do positives in life with other folks and want the best for them, as well as ourselves and everything our EXs did to us and other anti-socials is always destructive.

Everything about them is the complete opposite of us.

Thanks for sharing this insight with us.

I want to put the Bible in table format, Title Headings of what we are noticing on this blogg and see if the same scriptures come up over and over again when anyone writes specifics about their stories of their EXs. I think we will start seeing a pattern that we need to view due to all of them.



Angel the Book is about life! and how to live it in accordance w/ God

Do you feel or think you are really going to figure out evil in it ?

Just to desern evil is good enough for me , to try to define it is looking for trouble! for me!

It’s quite simple read marcus arelious what is it in it’s self? Greed! Sin!

From the Chronicals of DR. Zues it’s elemental ; Greed/disobedience to the Law breeds anger/hate/discrimination/discontent/law lessness/chaos!

It is all there for anyone to read (Handbook for Life ) THE BIBLE LOVE JJ


Charlie, I mean Indi – I was just thinking that to put the Bible into categories that made sense to us on LF … would be interesting to see what scriptures go with what incidences a blogger was writing about.

Actually, I was thinking out loud … and you? Were you thinking out loud to tell me the above? LOL.

Hugs Indie, hugs.


If I only Had a Brain?


These are spots in the feasts of your charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear:clouds they are, without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withers- without fruit, twice dead plucked up by the roots;

Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Doesn’t the psychopath just fill this bill? It is from the book of Jude and it is talking about the fallen angels who left their first estate with God to follow satan…and it describes people in the end times who possess or are possessed of the demonic. I think this 1 1/2 page book in the bible describes it to the utmost. Blessings, Breach


inthebreach57: Intense. Absolutely intense.

Thanks for sharing.


You were talking to Indigo in an above post about which incidences people have had that you would match with scripture and that one popped into my mind as it has a lot over the years. And reading peoples suffering here in their stories I have thought of this scripture several times. I agree it is intense and you know what I feel really makes this stand out? You don’t have to be a believer in G-d to get the full impact of every word. Just being in this world people are going to see or experience this.

That chapter of Jude; right before Revelation is one and a half pages that is just astounding…and those two verses were the mild ones!


Yes they will do a pile on when they see you weak and you will see there are a lot more P’s out there than you ever imagined. It’s shocking. The things they will say to you and what they think they can get away with doing to you because they are missing the moral compass, but your pain excites them. It is a bully mentality. Even in grade school and high school you will see children single out a sensitive child (they sense it, smell it perhaps) and they will ride that kid to the death or until they drop down to the base level with them and then they move on to the next kid.
My son got a note sent home today because an Islamic Arabic girl cursed him out in Arabic on the playground. Mind you these are 4th graders. He told me the look in her eyes was creepy and scary when she was cursing him in her native tongue. He told her Muslims hate our people, country and Christians and they bombed our country and killed innocent people. He had to write a note of apology to the girl tonight because she complained to the teacher and teacher said there is zero tolerance for racism. I made him write the apology note but I emailed his teacher and told her it is also racist for the girl to be cursing people out on the playground and using a language no one understands to “set her own rules.” Her cursing him out in Arabic is every bit as racist as his remarks. Both were wrong. I told my son to please avoid this girl. Don’t hate but stay away from her and do not respond to her in the future. My son just came out of Christian School and is in Public School for the first time. Why am I not surprised that his first negative encounter was from a Muslim? Demonic attack…right on schedule and boringly predictible. I just hope the teacher doesn’t have an attitude about him now for his 9 year old politically incorrect opinion. My step sister has two daughters who are half black. My husband is Jewish so we aren’t exactly running the ridges with our white capes and hats on here. Geez!


inthebreach57: Let me tell you a true life story that has happened many times while I was a child.

First, let me explain that I am not average height for a female. I am taller than most and was the same way as a child. Being taller, most people naturally would assumed I was older than my shorter classmates.

Being tall also made me a target for new kids coming in to our school to take their frustrations out on me. I assume they thought, if they got the big kid (physically or mentally, the rest of the pack will naturally buckle under and then they could control the environment.

Being peace loving all my life, naturally I wouldn’t care to physically fight another … but, I could use my wit and intelligence as a weapon to ward off an attack. Which of course, I always did. I would turn an ugly situation into a ridiculous situation … and some how make that enemy into a friend. I just naturally would shake hands and welcome the new kid into the group … which I think most conflicts with children really are. Jealousy of not being in with the crowd.

That was grade school … now here’s an example of H.S.

I transferred from a Catholic School into a public school my 2nd year of H.S. (yes, I wanted to wear jeans to school and not a uniform … LOL).

Anyway, any new kid would do the same attack on me. Get the big kid and the rest would naturally fall.

Each week it was rumored that I was to rumble with the new kid.

Each week, my friends would start incredible intimidating rumors in the rumor mill.

Each week it was one new kid picking on me.

What did I do? Of course, I talked all the anger out of the fighting scenario. First, I would ask the person attempting to fight me “I need to get one answer out of you first before you throw the first punch”? They of course, curious would ask … what’s is your question”? I’d say, “well, I want to know if your parents rent your home or own your home”? They’d always look at me with this inquisitive, perplexed look on their face … and say “what difference does that make”? I’d say “it makes a big difference whether your parents rent or own their own home”? Still confused they’d ask me why in the world would that question come up right before a fight? I said, well, first I want you to be the first one to throw a punch so all these witnesses will be able to testify who started the fight … then after we fight and I kick your ass … I want to know what I get out of it … because your parents are responsible for you … and you are their child, I want to know what I can sue them for in court”? So, again … do your parents rent or own your home?

Of course, I never threw a punch in my life … but, my quick actions, and peaceful nature, always resolved a conflict.

Days later I was called into the principal’s office. His assistant came out to meet with me in his outer hallway. She asked that I sit and wait for the principal that was finishing business … and he’d be with me in a few minutes. So, I sat there in the outer office of the principal… of course, assuming I was going to be expelled because staff believed I did have these fights on campus.

As I sat there, one of the teachers would walk by and say “Hi Wini, how are you today”. I’d look up at the teacher and shyly say “I’m fine”. Good, good, I’m glad you are OK today … then they’d walk by and go into a room down the hall.

I’d sit there, waiting … and another teacher would happen to walk in. Hi, Wini, is the principal in his office? I’d look up and say, yes he is, I’m waiting for him? The teacher said, “oh, then I guess your next to see him … I’ll come back later” … have a good day Wini.

So, I’m sitting there and sitting there … and in comes one teacher after another. I’m thinking, ghee … I’m going to get reamed and all these teachers are all over the place … in sight, on campus … they are going to know within minutes … what the principal does to me. My luck … it must be a teachers conference after school … and look at me … stuck in the middle of this big mess.

Finally the principals Assistant came out and said “Wini, Mr. So and So is ready to see you now”. I got up and she walked me into the principals office. I had my head down as I walked into his office. The principal said “Hi Wini … and then a big applause came from his room … I looked up and all the teachers were in his office applauding for me. They came over to me, shaking my hand … as I could hear some of them ask me “how did I do it … how did I avoid all those rumbles I was suppose to be in … and how did I make these enemies into friends and that their is no fighting what so ever on campus this year … the first time in the history of the school”.

Of course, my head was spinning and I was embarrassed that the entire faculty new of the events that were to transpire … and they were all shaking my hand and asking me one question after another.

Bottom line … even in grade school and High School … I knew, I just knew that most people who did evil were insecure, afraid … and they just wanted to be accepted and fit in…. and of course, loved.

So, I wouldn’t worry about your son and that little girl … I’m sure in a few years after they already have been friends for years … he’ll be escorting her to their first prom… and they will be posing for photos, all dressed up for their night, in your home, as well as her parents …



I just love that! It was so sensible and clever. I applaud you also! Yes, I am hoping they will work it out. Some kids do and others just never click. As long as there is peace and it does not escalate. He is the new kid and at a disadvantage of not having a support of friends base yet. I just don’t want it to go south on him.


inthebreach57: Kids are more resilient than adults. They believe and see the good in everyone. So much more wiser, if you think about it, than how adult life has made us more cautious.

Even when children see evil, they shrug it off and still understand that the other kid wants to be accepted by the group and loved and simply have a place among their peers.

Peace. I have faith in children, they are the way!

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