We know only too well that by far the majority of psychopaths are men. Or at least we think we know that. Could it be that the criteria used to identify psychopaths are biased towards men? After all Hare began his work in male prison.
Think about it. While behaving and being the way the PCL-R without doubt earns one the label psychopath, this is simply a list of symptoms. It says nothing about the underlying dynamics. If psychopathy is life centered on the principle of power (as opposed to love) and if it is therefore characterised by what Liane Leedom nicely calls ‘warped empathy‘, then wouldn’t you expect there to be more or less the same number of woman as men psychopaths? And wouldn’t you expect them to come across differently?
I am beginning to wonder whether there may be two broad types of psychopathy – a ‘male’-type and a ‘female’-type. I place these in quotes because, when I think about it, men with might be thought of as ‘female’ psychopathy come to mind and we all know about women with ‘male’ psychopathy. And yet, at the risk of being un-PC, I want to maintain these descriptors for now so that the difference I think I see doesn’t disappear.
A ‘female’ psychopath would not necessarily commit crimianl/antisocial acts like her male counterpart, but she woud be as power-driven, as toxically narcissistic as a ‘male’ psychopath. The control, the manipulation, the dishonesty, the selfishness, the callousness – all these would be present, but we might not recognise them for what they are because of 1. media portrayal and 2. medical diagnosis of psychopaths. The difference would come in the gendered style of their behaviour.
In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ‘female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.
Do readers have any comments? I’m particularly interested in any examples you might have of how ‘female’ psychopathy – if such a thing does exist – manifests itself?
Go get ’em Winni — you are a woman after my own heart (and I’m a woman so that’s not easy to do and uh… no sex please,…. just full bore respect and hero worship for you…. ) 🙂
Starmist: We have a lot of up and coming female politicians in our state that would love one of the good ole boy’s seat.
All in due time … on God’s time frame …
The truth comes out eventually, you just have to have patience, sit back and give them enough rope to hang themselves. They all did their greedy best, got what they wanted, shoved me under the carpet … aka roadkill, made me look like I wasn’t credible … now explain yourself guys … explain yourselves! HOW DID THIS HAPPEN and on your watch too? LOL.
Peace (smile).
wini
Where did you write the details of your case in progress? I would love to catch up but I am not sure which string to read to find our your story.
Starmist: I think I started blogging about May of this year. I don’t go into much details about my case, I do however write alot about what “they” did to me … their personalities, how ruthless etc. about them.
My lawsuit is on the Net. I couldn’t believe it. My friend found it back in the beginning of 2007. The judge’s site has it posted. We all have gag orders … so I can’t tell you details or write a book or a movie or who I worked for or any of that .. can’t name names, or places … but I can tell you what their personalities are all about and what abuse I took and how I worked through it.
Piece of pie, piece of cake.
“In my clinical work I have come across this phenomenon. For example, a woman I now consider to be of the ’female’-type of psychopath didn’t come close to committing a crime and yet the way she mothered her daughter, my patient, came close to destroying the child’s mind. This seems to me to be a perversion of motherhood eqivalent to the perversion of fatherhood we read about on this website.”
Hello Dr. Steve,
I’m very interested in your theory, which I believe to be spot on, and I believe this is a huge area of research which is sorely missing in the whole field of study of psychopathy/sociopathy etc…
What you said re: your patients “mothering” rings very true for me. The notion of “psychopathic mothering” is something which I’ve never found anyone, in my search for therapy or otherwise, willing to consider can exist, let alone extend the opportunity to discuss it, and forget trying to heal it. This notion seems to go against every fundmental belief of modern society – we’re into something archetypal here. I’ve found that if I even attempt to discuss it I become “the enemy”, regardless of the treatment approach, whether feminist, traditional, cognitive, etc… Because those “ideologies” (if you’ll allow me the use of that term in this context) can’t or won’t admit the existence of female psychopaths then anyone by definition must be crazy, bad, or manipulative to insist on one’s right to speak about it.
Of course, I hope you understand that my use of the term “enemy” really is shortform for the attitude that results when those who are being asked to consider this possibility, and have a vested interest in vigourously not doing so, are pushed (even gently pushed) to reconsider. I’m constantly astounded by the behavioural changes in both ordinary & professional people when this subject comes up (psychopathic &/or sadistic mothering), followed by an even more sudden reversal of behaviour when it’s dropped. Needless to say, I’ve learned never to bring it up, and now think most therapy is a waste of time and money. My theory is that most people who need therapy have been victims of this type of mothering, and yet the existence of this type of mothering is denied by most therapeutic models, except for those which come with the lovely notion that the children are irretreviably damaged themselves and are therefore candidates for their own labels. The notion of “immunizing influences”, apparently, gets little recognition. So your observation is, in my opinion, very rare and very commendable. Your patient is very fortunate to have a therapist who is both flexible and observant enough to think this way.
I would be very interested in sharing my observations on this topic (of which I have many!), but I hesitate to write more about them here on a public forum, as I don’t know you, and you haven’t elaborated on the specific situation you described.
I would be most appreciative if you could post more of your thoughts on this subject, and I would particularly appreciate if you could elaborate on the paragraph you wrote which I’ve quoted above.
On a separate note, I wonder why a site such as lovefraud, which is concerned about psychopathy, etc…, doesn’t have any way to confirm the identities of their blog contributors. This situation is ripe for someone of less than honourable intent to take advantage of. I’m not saying that this is the case – most of the blogs I read seem to be very reasonable and above board. It’s just that, on principle, it seems odd that a site dedicated to dishonest and shadowy people should allow theorectically professional bloggers whose identities are hidden. I’ve found the same thing on the website associated with Robert Hare: “Aftermath”, and I wonder why on earth anyone who has been a victim of a psychopath would reveal any personal information on a site where the “group of psychopathy researchers, mental health professionals” (in the case of Aftermath) aren’t identified whatsoever.
Annie –
I almost didnt sign up and log-on when I found LF.
A – I was uncomfortable with having never done anything like this before.
B – I had just come out of a toxic relationship not really “knowing” the person I was with and I preliminarily questioned myself as to how I could trust anyone let alone people Ive never met before. So, I hung around behind the scenes, and I read and I found the LF authors page -showing pictures and brief descriptions of the professionals on LF (which may be helpful to you) and most importantly I saw the amazing support through kind caring words and amazing support of others here. I also have read some things I havent agreed with, but overall Ive read many more stories I could relate to and help support others.
C – I especially felt comfortable not having to give full disclosure in case the person I was involved with would find out I was sharing personal information and thereby potentially put me at risk for more verbal abuse and/or physical abuse. But had it been required, I must say I eventually would have jumped on board because the support here has helped beyond anywhere else Ive turned. I know the owner of LF has everyones email addresses and on the rare occasion someone is unprofessional or makes anyone feel uncomfortable the owner has encouraged us to contact her immediately.
Annie,
I believe that authors should be willing to stand behind their views. All Lovefraud Blog authors are identified here:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/authors/
We do not ask Lovefraud readers and commenters to identify themselves. Many are concerned about their security, and with good reason.
We do have guidelines for posting comments, however, which you can see here:
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/guidelines-for-comments/
Donna…I think you do an excellent job of balancing the issues of security and free expression.
Annie…loved your post…but I’m a man. Your point about the gender bias in recognizing the existence and severity of antisocial behaviors goes against the current cultural mindset.
It seems the only category which has acknowledged a female propensity is Borderline Personality Disorder. Maybe because of a tendency to have more “sympathy for the patient” in this classification…as a January Time Magazine article and a “Dr. Lineham” exhibited.
Besides, women are allowed to be emotional, crazy, whiney, and are entitled to get their needs met….right?
Men….they’re supposed to be stoic. rational, protective, and responsive to a woman’s needs, even by telepathy…right?
The idea of psychopathic mothering is not an idea the psychiatric community wants to acknowledge…for the impact that validation would have on the legal system and current culture.
But in the bottom currents of the cultural river…reality prevails. My therapist, who handles many court-referred patients, expresses dismay with the number of men who are ending up with custody of their children.
Involved in my teen daughter’s life, I see the mothers who put themselves first, their child’s needs, and safety, second. I worry about my daughter’s “mothering” experience…knowing her mother cares about and loves (by actions and behavior, not proclamation) my daughter.
My therapist assures me my daughter will be OK as long as she has me…I hope so….
You and Steve, at least, seem to recognize a problem. That’s progress. Do what you can.
I better hide now….I think women outnumber men here…LOL
Ha ha Jim in hiding from the LF women? Noway!!!! And the reinforcing impact and positive influence you are making on your daughters life will go a long way in her life…my fathers sure did in my life. Im certain of it.
I just noticed this article was written in 2008. Perhaps because of my own mothers mental illness — it does not surprise me at all, in fact Ive just always assumed there was psychopathic “mothering”, narcissistic mothering, bi-polar mothering, ASPD mothering….as well as all true for “fathering”…. unless a child has intervention (i.e. a grandparent, a pro-active healthy parent, a protective sibling to help lighten the intake,a therapist, etc)… many of the children in the world face being victims themselves of this type of mothering/fathering…
If we cant get non-parental psychopaths to agree to therapy…how can we expect to get psychopathic parents into treatment?
IMHO, the therapy could be extremely beneficial to the teenagers or young adults leaving home — if somehow they could be reached and introduced to therapy as a result of learning the redflags, sign/symptoms of such an illness and being exposed to it and the lifelong impact it could possibly have on them if they do not receive intervention/therapy. Because the chances of getting a psychopathic mother into therapy – and see results – are slim to none. Unless she is ready willing and able to change.
ps. Im presently working with our high school guidance counsellors to introduce programs into the school to raise awareness to the children.